Reaction To The Adrian Gonzalez Trade

If all goes according to plan, Adrian Gonzalez will soon become the newest member of the Boston Red Sox.  Here's a sampling of opinion from around the baseball world on the deal that has been talked about for quite some time..

  • Gonzalez could put up monster numbers in Fenway, says Alex Speier of WEEI.com.  During the 2009 All-Star game, the slugger told the site that he was long curious about what it would be like to play his home games in a different park.  Petco, of course, is less-than-friendly to hitters.
  • The "Human Trade Rumor" will prove that he has been worth the wait, says Scott Miller of CBSSports.com.
  • While the proposed deal may seem to favor the Red Sox on the surface, Keith Law of ESPN (Insider subscription required) sees it as being pretty even.  While there's a lot to like about the makeup of right-hander Casey Kelly, Law points out that he is also a great defensive pitcher.  His fielding is so strong in fact that Law writes that "it's like having an extra infielder on the diamond."
  • Corey Brock of MLB.com (via Twitter) says that the Padres still need a first baseman in the short-term.
  • Heath Bell says he's okay with the deal if it makes San Diego better in the long-term, according to Marty Caswell of XX1090 radio (via Twitter).
  • Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports writes that the deal would shake up this winter's hot stove.  The trade would certainly hurt free agent Adrian Beltre, who would lose leverage as a result.
  • Rival executives have mixed feelings about the Padres' return for Gonzalez, tweets Rosenthal.
  • BoSox pitcher Tim Wakefield likes Gonzalez as a player and a person, tweets Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe.
  • The Red Sox used their deep pockets to get the man they wanted, writes Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports.


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148 Comments on "Reaction To The Adrian Gonzalez Trade"


Guest
4 years 8 months ago

i get the feeling that he wont sign an extension. after making about 5MM per year, he might want to see what he can get on the open market.

4 years 8 months ago

If he doesn’t sign an extension, the Sox wont make the trade. There’s no way in hell they’re going to give up 3 of their top 10 prospects for a 1 year player. Why do you think they petitioned MLB for a 72 hour negotiating window?

Guest
4 years 8 months ago

then the deal wont happen because i dont see him signing an extension

4 years 8 months ago

I kind of doubt Gonzalez would have gotten on a plane to Boston for a physical and contract discussion if he didn’t intend to negotiate an extension. He’s well aware the trade depends on an extension, and he’s a good enough human being to not take part in some bad-faith BS. If they don’t sign an extension it will be because the parties actually can’t come to terms, not because Gonzo doesn’t want one.

Jeremiah Graves
4 years 8 months ago

Maybe, but there isn’t a whole lot of “market” available when you figure that all of the big money teams are pretty much set at first base.

The Yankees have Teixeira.
The Angels have Morales.
The White Sox have Dunn and maybe Konerko.
The Mets have Ike Davis.
The Cubs don’t appear to be in line to drop that kind of cash.
The Dodgers aren’t going to spend the kind of money it’d take to land him.
The Phillies have Howard locked up.
The Cardinals figure to have Pujols all locked up and if they don’t manage to lock him up, than he’ll be the top free agent first baseman next offseason, not Gonzo and there’s clearly a very limited number of teams that can take these guys on.

That really leaves the Red Sox, the Rangers and the Mariners in regards to teams with deep enough pockets.

Even if Pujols doesn’t hit the market at the same time next offseason, Prince Fielder likely will hit the market and with such a limited number of teams why walk away from what figures to be really good money to stay in Boston right now.

That was my INCREDIBLY long-winded way of saying that I definitely think he signs the extension. I’m guess it lands somewhere between Ryan Howard and Mark Teixeira in terms of both length and value.

moonraker45
4 years 8 months ago

Blue Jays, Texas , Mets (if Ike doesn’t progress)

myname_989
4 years 8 months ago

Not to mention all of those smaller market teams that have been despierately trying to lure in big name players, like Baltimore and Washington.

Jeremiah Graves
4 years 8 months ago

You know, Washington is one I totally spaced off…(likely because they never seem to land any of the big-name guys).

I guess the only one of those teams that makes a lot of sense for Gonzo would be the Rangers–because they’re the only club that looks ready to contend and he’s said in a lot of interviews that he really wants to play for a winner.

I figure Boston will offer enough money that the deal gets done, but if not Texas (depending on how their interest in Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford pans out) and/or Washington make some sense.

Washington has a good core and is on the upswing, but is Gonzo willing to wait another four or five years to be on a legit contender?!

myname_989
4 years 8 months ago

As much as it pains me to be honest here, if the Nationals could acquire a guy like Adrian Gonzalez for the middle of the order, I think they become a legit contender. That’s what I’ve been afraid of with rumors like these. Haha. They have a lot of good pieces, both in the minors and at the major league level, and you can’t help but think Gonzalez would really anchor that lineup (plus names like Zimmerman, Willingham; and up and comers like Ramos, Harper)… they could be good in a lot less than four years.

When I talk about the Nats with friends, I always say they’re an ace and a superstar away from being annual contenders for a division title. (That’s a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the idea.)

Jessamynn
4 years 7 months ago

Washington really does have some nice pieces, especially young position players. They’re not getting the results on the field obviously, but it’s clear they have a plan, which is pretty much all you can expect for a team that’s trying to build.

What they don’t have, and haven’t been able to develop over the last 3-5 years, is young pitching. It seems like the Nats have been stockpiling young pitchers who (at best) project to be #3-#4 starters (Lannan, Stammen, Chico, etc) – but none of them have really fully developed into someone they can just pencil into the rotation, even just to eat innings for an entire season. Granted, they’ve had bad luck with major arm injuries to Zimmermann and Strasberg, both of whom project to being top-of-rotation guys.

Jessamynn
4 years 8 months ago

Washington isn’t exactly a small market team – D.C. has (I believe) the 8th largest metropolitan population as well as being the 8th largest media market in the country. They just haven’t behaved like a large market team because they’ve only existed in D.C. for a couple of years.

It’s obviously not NY/LA/Chi/Philly, but still bigger than 20 other MLB markets.

myname_989
4 years 8 months ago

Very true. I tend to call them “small market teams” because of their lack of payroll. Bad habit I’m trying to break out of. Lol

Jessamynn
4 years 7 months ago

It’s understandable.

I very much believe that if/when the Nationals ever manage to get their young players lined up on the roster at the same time (like how Tampa did in ’08), Washington could take a step into respectability, which would then lead to their ownership opening the checkbook. The market is certainly large enough to support a $100 million payroll.

Guest
4 years 8 months ago

you neglected to mention a team in the top 5 in payroll… detroit

Sawksfan
4 years 8 months ago

true, they have some dude named Cabrera right?

moonraker45
4 years 8 months ago

never heard of him!

Sawksfan
4 years 8 months ago

true, they have some dude named Cabrera right?

Sawksfan
4 years 8 months ago

true, they have some dude named Cabrera right?

Zuidvogels
4 years 8 months ago

He’s already said he wants a Howard like extension.

Guest
4 years 8 months ago

the word “like” can vary quite a bit

Infield Fly
4 years 8 months ago

It’s like “The Red Sox -Reloaded”
Congrats.

Ricky
4 years 8 months ago

He is going to sign an extension.

ultimate913
4 years 8 months ago

“Heath Bell says he’s okay with the deal if it makes San Diego better in the long-term, according to Marty Caswell of XX1090 radio (via Twitter).”

As if it matters if it’ll be better in the long term for San Diego to him. Bell will be wearing another uniform rather soon. Whether it’s sometime this season or the 2012 season.

4 years 8 months ago

The thought of Boras crying somewhere about the news is the cherry on top

ugotrpk3113
4 years 8 months ago

One way or another, he’s going to sign the extension. The Red Sox aren’t going to invest 4 prospects to potentially only get two picks back for one year of service.

Probably a 5-7 year deal, 22-25 per.

licky_boomboom_down
4 years 8 months ago

The Sox got a total steal. Three prospects and a PTBNL isn’t that much of a price to pay, even if it did include their best prospect. They still have enough bullets to make another trade.

I’m hoping Gonzalez signs soon, too. It’ll be good to know all the details. Unless Ellsbury is traded for some sort of RH center fielder like Matt Kemp (Obviously it would take more than Ells to get Kemp, but he would be the centerpiece), it looks like they’ll sign Werth instead of Crawford.

bringbackandruw
4 years 8 months ago

Lol Colleti isnt trading Kemp until All-star break if at all. Everyone knows about their dislike for one another but Kemp isnt going anywhere especially not this winter.

Jeremiah Graves
4 years 8 months ago

How is it a steal?

They nabbed three of the Red Sox top six prospects (and a player to be named) for a guy who wasn’t going to re-sign and who had made it clear to the entire world that he wasn’t going to re-sign.

The Padres had zero leverage and pretty much no other teams that were legitimately interested and they still managed to wrangle three top prospects who immediately improve their farm system.

They are a rebuilding team. They were a rebuilding team last year that simply overachieved. Hoyer knew better than to misread last year’s success as a sign that they were ready to compete.

They’ve acquired a potential front of the rotation ace, a slugging first base replacement (although Kyle Blanks likely gets moved to 1B initially) and an outfielder with great speed that should play very well in PETCO’s spacious gaps.

Almost all trades for an All-Star look lopsided at first…give it some time.

Reaper87
4 years 8 months ago

I think the angle he was playing was it is a steal because the Sox did not have to give anyone on the 25-man in the deal. I’m guessing the PTBNL will be another potentially impact player, but that lack of leverage definitely hurt the Pads. I would have thought they could have gotten Ellsbury or Lowrie in the deal to help the major league team immediately, but if all of these prospects pan out, the deal will still work out for both sides

Jeremiah Graves
4 years 8 months ago

The way I looked at it, they figured why go after an Ellsbury or Lowrie when the club ain’t really going to be in contention for another couple of years and those guys are just entering arbitration territory.

Go young and cheap, stock the farm system and put three of Boston’s top prospects with the Padres prospects, let ’em all grow and work together in the minors so they all hit the bigs at the same time with a serious team dynamic.

I think for a team with zero leverage they came out of this one looking great. No need to get big league roster-fillers for Gonzo for what is a bottom of the pack team. They can sign some guys off the scrap heap for the big league minimum or just move Kyle Blanks to first base in the short-term and keep running Everth Cabrera out there at shortstop.

They know they’re not contenders and that’s the most important thing for the front office is to know where they stand. Hoyer does and I think that’s why I like this trade so much.

Reaper87
4 years 8 months ago

That does make sense. Lowrie should be a real solid player, but since SD won’t be good for at least a couple seasons, I can see the logic. It’s the same rationale I figured the DBacks were going to use with Upton, that if someone offered them 3-4 top prospects it might be worth it to build for 2012 and beyond. The Pads farm system isn’t exactly oozing with talent, so this helps

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

Didn’t have to give up major league talent, and didn’t lose Iglesias. Maybe not a steal, but the Red Sox definitely didn’t have to decimate their system.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

Didn’t have to give up major league talent, and didn’t lose Iglesias. Maybe not a steal, but the Red Sox definitely didn’t have to decimate their system.

Holidayjesus
4 years 8 months ago

This is a pretty even trade compared to the Dan Uggla trade from the Marlins to the Braves.

Encarnacion's Parrot
4 years 8 months ago

Every trade looks even when comparing it to that one.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

*laughs hysterically*

4 years 8 months ago

As a Yankees fan, this deal makes me love the Tex signing even more. The Sox are still going to have to pay Gonzo 100+ mil, and they have to give up two of their top 3 prospects just to get the right to offer him that.

Ricky
4 years 8 months ago

Whatever you have to tell yourself to make you feel better about it. Great deal for the Sox and they got arguably the best first baseman in the game.

MaineSox
4 years 8 months ago

Easy with the “best first baseman in the game” Pujols is without a doubt the best first baseman in the game, then there are probably 4-5 guys competing for a relatively distant 2nd, of which Gonzalez is one.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

*quietly points out that Votto and Pujols had very similar years in 2010, which might insinuate that Pujols reign may at least have some worth challengers*

But as I say that…I still can’t come up with any argument for why Pujols isn’t #1, so he still is. Just saying, he looked almost human last year.

MaineSox
4 years 8 months ago

Absolutely, and in another year or two my statement might be incorrect but at this point there really isn’t any argument that can be made for Pujols not being #1. If Votto puts up similar numbers for another year or two then I think you could make that argument. I mean the guy put up over 80 WAR in 10 years, that’s insanity!

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

Yeah, Pujols has been a total monster. I guess you’re right, someone like Votto still needs a couple years of domination to try to challenge Pujols for that #1 ranking.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

Yeah, Pujols has been a total monster. I guess you’re right, someone like Votto still needs a couple years of domination to try to challenge Pujols for that #1 ranking.

MaineSox
4 years 8 months ago

Absolutely, and in another year or two my statement might be incorrect but at this point there really isn’t any argument that can be made for Pujols not being #1. If Votto puts up similar numbers for another year or two then I think you could make that argument. I mean the guy put up over 80 WAR in 10 years, that’s insanity!

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

*quietly points out that Votto and Pujols had very similar years in 2010, which might insinuate that Pujols reign may at least have some worth challengers*

But as I say that…I still can’t come up with any argument for why Pujols isn’t #1, so he still is. Just saying, he looked almost human last year.

Ricky
4 years 8 months ago

“Arguably”

MaineSox
4 years 8 months ago

Yeah, I saw that. I think you would have been better off saying arguably the second best 1B in the game. Pujols is far and away #1 and then there are likely 4-5 guys fighting for #2: Teixeira, Gonzalez, Votto, Fielder and to an extent Youkilis – I think a case could be made for any one of them being as good as the others.

4 years 8 months ago

How does it make you happier? Boston just got a lot better. It doesn’t matter that they gave up Rizzo. They don’t need him because they have A-Gon for the next 6-8 years. To get a player like A-Gon you have to give up a player like Kelly. It happens. You shouldn’t be happy.

4 years 8 months ago

Best first basemen in the game? Albert Pujols would have something to say about that. But I shouldn’t expect any less from a sox fan.

“To get a player like A-Gon you have to give up a player like Kelly”….hmm…last I checked the Yankees gave up 0 players to get Tex.

Agon simply replaces Beltre/V-Mart. In all actuality, Beltre had an even higher WAR than Agon so the argument could be made that the loss of those two is more of a blow than the addition of Gonz. As is, the sox aren’t improved over last year. Or are you going to tell me that Salt. / Varitek are going to be solid catchers next year? hahah

4 years 8 months ago

not worth it.

ugotrpk3113
4 years 8 months ago

*smacks head*

Yankee fans in full swing tonight…

Jeremiah Graves
4 years 8 months ago

I’m not a big Sox fan or anything, but there are some serious holes in your logic.

The whole “the Yankees didn’t give up anything to get Teix thing” is true (if you discount the compensation pick of Mike Trout–one of baseball’s top prospects–to the Angels), but it doesn’t apply.

Mark Teixeira got traded initially for a much larger haul (Neftali Feliz, Elvis Andrus, Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Matt Harrison) than the Padres got (or so it appears–only time will tell) for Adrian Gonzalez.

Gonzalez would cost zero players (again, discounting the compensation pick) if he were a free agent too. The statement you replied to was clearly in relation to a trade, thus touting that the Yankees didn’t have to give up anyone to nab a free agent is completely pointless. It’s apples and limes, sure they’re both fruit but only one belongs in my margarita.

The Red Sox were a very good team last year that was besieged by injuries. They figure to be healthier and better in 2011. The Yankees, on the other hand, have made their big offseason priority re-signing (and overpaying) a decline-phase Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera.

Cliff Lee is obviously the big fish they’re trying to reel in, but the Sox just got a whole lot better and gave up players who didn’t have a real role on the big league club in the near future.

Puff up those feathers a little more Yankee Universe, the Red Sox got younger and better and are still in the mix to land Werth or Crawford. The AL East ain’t a cakewalk…

4 years 8 months ago

What the angels gave up to get Tex has no relation to the Yankees signing of him. None whatsoever. Considering the Red Sox chased after Tex, I simply noted that the Yankees got him for simply $, while the Red Sox had to turn around 2 years later and give up 2 of their 3 best prospects and $ (for his obvious extension) for a 1B.

And I stopped reading your post after you said Rivera was declining. That’s quite humorous.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

He is. Check the numbers. He never said he was declining a lot, but he’s declining.

Actually, Jeremiah doesn’t even say Rivera is declining. “A decline-phase Jeter and Rivera”, I’m pretty sure meant that Jeter was the declining one, and then -also- Rivera.

Either way, he’s right.

4 years 8 months ago

Perhaps you should check his numbers. Sure I guess you can say his ERA rose from 1.76 to 1.80. THat difference is absolutely negligible; however, his WHIP and HR rate both drastically improved. In postseason IPS he had an ERA of 0. Please, by all means, explain how he’s declining.

Ironic that Sox fans say he’s declining meanwhile Theo just thought he was good enough to offer a 3 year 45+ million dollar deal to. No need for sour grapes because he spurned down your superior offer to stick w/ New York.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

Again, when I say he’s declining, I don’t mean I think he’s gonna be bad. I just mean his cutter hasn’t been quite as effective this year (which is why he has needed to use his other pitches a little more often), without -quite- the same pinpoint control as he’s had in the past. It’s still very unhittable, but I saw him pitch in a couple games against Boston this year and in -every- situation, he missed location on a couple cutters, and looked much more human than he has in the last few years. he’s still getting plenty of swings and misses, and even Boston didn’t exactly jump on all his mistakes (because those are still really good pitches), but I just think its possible he has a little tougher time maintaining his dominating ways over the next few years. I don’t think you’ll regret his new contract at all, I just think you’re not going to quite get vintage Rivera out of it.

4 years 8 months ago

“His cutter hasn’t been as effective”.

Really, thats interesting considering Rivera’s Hits per 9 declined last year. So basically your sole argument on him declining is that his era rose .4 points, from 1.76 to 1.80? That’s gotta be a joke in the light that his WHIP, HRper9, Hitsper9 all significantly declined and he pitched a near perfect postseason.

Child please.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

Just a personal observation. Also, his second half wasn’t as impressive. He was basically perfect in the first half, and perfect in the postseason. But that second half was definitely not vintage Rivera. And my feeling is that as he continues to age, you may see non-vintage Rivera for more than just one half of the season in the future.

4 years 8 months ago

“His cutter hasn’t been as effective”.

Really, thats interesting considering Rivera’s Hits per 9 declined last year. So basically your sole argument on him declining is that his era rose .4 points, from 1.76 to 1.80? That’s gotta be a joke in the light that his WHIP, HRper9, Hitsper9 all significantly declined and he pitched a near perfect postseason.

Child please.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

Again, when I say he’s declining, I don’t mean I think he’s gonna be bad. I just mean his cutter hasn’t been quite as effective this year (which is why he has needed to use his other pitches a little more often), without -quite- the same pinpoint control as he’s had in the past. It’s still very unhittable, but I saw him pitch in a couple games against Boston this year and in -every- situation, he missed location on a couple cutters, and looked much more human than he has in the last few years. he’s still getting plenty of swings and misses, and even Boston didn’t exactly jump on all his mistakes (because those are still really good pitches), but I just think its possible he has a little tougher time maintaining his dominating ways over the next few years. I don’t think you’ll regret his new contract at all, I just think you’re not going to quite get vintage Rivera out of it.

woadude
4 years 8 months ago

Theo offered that just to drive the price up and to quit with the soap opera storyline, we didnt even talk about which team they could go to because stevie wonder could see they were Yankees, how about the fact that because of Theo, you gave him a 2 year deal worth more than you wanted to spend? yeah sucks huh…Mariano will always be Mariano, but Jeter is going to be painful for you all to watch.

Jeremiah Graves
4 years 8 months ago

I never said Mo was in his decline-phase, I was bagging on Jeter. Mo is still the best closer in baseball, there’s really no doubting that one.

Jeremiah Graves
4 years 8 months ago

I’m not a big Sox fan or anything, but there are some serious holes in your logic.

The whole “the Yankees didn’t give up anything to get Teix thing” is true (if you discount the compensation pick of Mike Trout–one of baseball’s top prospects–to the Angels), but it doesn’t apply.

Mark Teixeira got traded initially for a much larger haul (Neftali Feliz, Elvis Andrus, Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Matt Harrison) than the Padres got (or so it appears–only time will tell) for Adrian Gonzalez.

Gonzalez would cost zero players (again, discounting the compensation pick) if he were a free agent too. The statement you replied to was clearly in relation to a trade, thus touting that the Yankees didn’t have to give up anyone to nab a free agent is completely pointless. It’s apples and limes, sure they’re both fruit but only one belongs in my margarita.

The Red Sox were a very good team last year that was besieged by injuries. They figure to be healthier and better in 2011. The Yankees, on the other hand, have made their big offseason priority re-signing (and overpaying) a decline-phase Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera.

Cliff Lee is obviously the big fish they’re trying to reel in, but the Sox just got a whole lot better and gave up players who didn’t have a real role on the big league club in the near future.

Puff up those feathers a little more Yankee Universe, the Red Sox got younger and better and are still in the mix to land Werth or Crawford. The AL East ain’t a cakewalk…

ugotrpk3113
4 years 8 months ago

Agon simply replaces Beltre/V-Mart. In all actuality, Beltre had an even higher WAR than Agon so the argument could be made that the loss of those two is more of a blow than the addition of Gonz. As is, the sox aren’t improved over last year. Or are you going to tell me that Salt. / Varitek are going to be solid catchers next year? hahah

****

Well right now you have an open rotation spot and Burnett. You don’t have Lee and you don’t have Pettite. Are you going to tell me that your minor league prospects are going to be solid starters next year? hahah

Sorry, I’m just using the same logic you are. Which apparently is that the season starts tomorrow…

4 years 8 months ago

I’d take Burnett over Lackey or DiceK; at least he helped us win a WS. What have they done for you lately?

ugotrpk3113
4 years 8 months ago

Do yourself a favor – Just stop talking. You are really making the rational Yankees fans here look bad…

4 years 8 months ago

Without Burnett we arguably don’t win that WS. His contribution to winning that WS far outweighs anything DiceK or Lackey have done for the Sox over the past two years. That’s not even questionable.

ugotrpk3113
4 years 8 months ago

Well of course not. I could say the same about JD Drew in 07. However, that doesn’t mean he is worth the money being given to him. (Also – wasn’t Burnett left off the opening round roster…?)

I’d rather Lackey than Burnett, honestly. Lackey was awful last year, but he’s certainly better than how he pitched last year. Burnett is an injury risk that hasn’t been a great pitcher in some time..

Regardless of that point, my point is this – you can’t judge if a team is ‘better than last year’ yet. The Red Sox need help in the bullpen and OF. The Yankees need similar help.

Let’s wait until March before we start making statements about who is better and who isn’t better.

flickadave
4 years 8 months ago

Ummmmmmmmm……. DiceK helped the Red Sox win the WS in 2007. Oh, sorry, that wasn’t in the last TWO years. I agree with ugotrpk, you should just stop talking.

Sawksfan
4 years 8 months ago

Yeah, doesn’t Dice-K have a ring? So much for that argument haha

ugotrpk3113
4 years 8 months ago

Do yourself a favor – Just stop talking. You are really making the rational Yankees fans here look bad…

wakefield4life
4 years 7 months ago

Dice K helped the Sox win a WS in 07. Lackey had an overall better season than Burnett on approximately the same contract. I’d take either of those over Burnett.

4 years 8 months ago

I’d take Burnett over Lackey or DiceK; at least he helped us win a WS. What have they done for you lately?

YanksFanSince78
4 years 8 months ago

I don’t think he said anything about the season ending tomorrow but his point that the Sox still need to do more to improve upon last year is valid is it not?

ugotrpk3113
4 years 8 months ago

“The Red Sox aren’t improved from last year”

To me, that’s basically saying that the season starts tomorrow as is. So I made the point that you can say the same about any team at this point in the offseason (in this case the Yankees, because that’s his team).

4 years 8 months ago

How in the world does the statement “the red sox aren’t improved from last year” indicate that the season starts tomorrow? That’s quite a stretch. All it means is that as of today, as this point in time compared to the end of last season, the Red Sox haven’t improved in my mind. Stop contorting statements and making off based conclusions.

MY argument with that statement was simple – Agon and Jarrod Salt./Varitek are not better than Beltre / Vmart.

Beltre’s WAR alone is higher than Agons, so I’m not sure how you can even refute my point. But I’m sure, as a Sox fan, you’ll try to.

ugotrpk3113
4 years 8 months ago

Because when you try to make a point such as “Beltre’s WAR is higher than AGonz, therefore they are not as good”, you come across as being a mindless Yankees fan who’s goal is to act obnoxious.

Player A: 5.1 WAR
Player B: 4.4 WAR

Which would you rather have? Player A right?

Player A: Stephen Drew
Player B: Hanley Ramirez

So yeah, using the eye test, this is pretty easy to see – The Red Sox at this point are much improved over last year.

padresfuture
4 years 8 months ago

According to baseball refernce Gonzales war was 6.3 last year and 7.0 the year before. Beltres was 6.1 last year and 1.1 the year before. Do you even check your facts before posting or am I missing something?

flickadave
4 years 8 months ago

I think that the fact that all of the Red Sox players should be healthy in spring training means that the Sox are already better than the team they fielded for most of 2010.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

Good for you. Lets see how happy you feel at the end of this season…

4 years 8 months ago

I heard similar statements after the Red Sox signed Lackey, and I felt pretty happy at the end of this past season. So how’d that signing work out for you guys?

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

There is almost NO comparison between Lackey and A-Gon. And I’ll be the first to admit that I over-hyped Lackey coming in. It was the only big move out of a pretty disappointing offseason (until Beltre exploded of course), and I was trying to rationalize it. But A-Gon is different.

And as pbarnes posted, this was nearly a bargain for the Red Sox. Didn’t lose anyone who was really a one-of-a-kind player in their farm system, except maybe Kelly (but we still have Britton and Ranaudo, so..), and got a STUD of a first baseman. Now Boston could’ve waited til next year, where he probably would have hit the FA market, and signed him without losing prospects. But this deal helps them out in 2011 as well, which is why I’m saying look out; Boston is not viewing 2011 as a bridge year at all. They’ll be right in the thick of it.

And I hate to throw this in your face, but any fan of a team that pays A-Rod as much as he’s getting should think very carefully before gloating over someone elses expense.

MaineSox
4 years 8 months ago

I’m not ready to give up on the Lackey signing myself. While I don’t think there is any chance he lives up to the money, he will likely be one of the most effective #4 pitchers over the length of his contract.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

*whispers*

I totally agree with you. I just didn’t want to start that argument again, it never goes anywhere…But disregarding the money, I don’t expect Lackey to be as ineffective as he was in 2010 again, and I think he’ll be a very important cog of the rotation. As you said, very strong for a back-of-the rotation kind of guy.

I feel the same way about Dice-K actually. But I’m -definitely- not getting started on that one. :)

MaineSox
4 years 8 months ago

Definitely, that’s how I like to look at it. While I’m glad it’s not my money paying him that huge amount of money, he is almost still worth it just for the simple fact that it makes our rotation so deep, he could easily be a #2 on most other staffs.

4 years 8 months ago

Perhaps your reading comprehension is slacking because in no post did I compare Lackey to Agon or did I “gloat over someone else’s expenses”

I simply said I’ve heard sox fans say the same thing after a major signing, which clearly backfired. So naturally, I’ll have my reservations when a sox fan tells me to “wait until the end of the year” subtly proclaiming the red sox are better than the Yankees after a major signing.

And secondly, I”ll be the first to admit the A-Rod contract is a monstrosity, but I never criticized the Red Sox for having to pay Agon, I simply duly noted that the Yankees had to give up 0 players to get Tex, while the Red Sox had to turn around (after losing out on Tex) and give up 2 of their 3 top prospects to get another 1B, who will certainly (and justly) wind up signing a 100mil extension.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

Your original post says you’re happy for this move because the Red Sox basically have to pay twice. So…you’re happy because Boston is paying extra….So, yes. You’re happy because Boston isn’t getting as great of a deal as NY did with Tex.

And in the end, I’m actually fine with Boston “overpaying” in that sense. We got Gonzalez a year earlier, didn’t have to overpay for the extension because we avoid that bidding war, and didn’t really lose a major prospect. The nice thing about having a balanced farm system with no “superstars” is that even losing a couple top prospects is not a huge blow. 2010’s draft treated Boston pretty well, and they’ve still got a lot of guys with decent potential in their system. The only guy I really didn’t want to see leave was Iglesias, and he didn’t, so for me that’s nearly all it took to make the trade a “win” for me. It won’t decimate our farm system, we can afford the extension, and it GREATLY helps out the major league team.

4 years 8 months ago

You either can’t read or can’t interpret English. Seriously. Read what I wrote. “This makes me love the Tex deal”. THe only sense of happiness that implies is over the Tex signing. I’m happy that the Yanks managed to acquire a great 1B SOLEY FOR MONEY. How can you possibly argue that it’s better to give up prospects and cash rather than simply cash for a player? My argument was simply. Don’t contort it.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

*sigh*

Look. When you say you loved Tex’s deal where you only paid cash, in the context of a thread talking about A-Gon costing cash + prospects from Boston, its pretty clear that what you’re saying is that you love the deal because Tex cost NY less than A-Gon will cost Boston.

And I never argued that prospects + cash is better than just cash. I argued that the extra cost may be worth it to Boston because they believe they can make a big run in 2011, and also that the prospect cost may end up being minimal to Boston. Rizzo would be blocked, Kelly is good but so is Britton and Ranaudo, and Fuentes is another Ellsbury (and so is Felix Sanchez, and sort of Kalish).

All I’m saying is while you may feel that you got a better deal with Tex and that Boston is overpaying for Gonzalez to compensate for losing out on Mark, I feel that the prospects will end up not hurting Boston very much, the extension won’t be any higher than Teixeiras, and while A-Gon may not be a better player than Teixeira, he may actually be the best fit to play 1B in Boston.

4 years 8 months ago

I think the trade for Agon was actually pretty even for both sides (perhaps even a bit favorable for the Sox) but it’s too early to judge that. And yes those prospects might have been blocked, but that doesn’t diminish their value. I’m not even arguing that Agon is better than Tex, just that in light of the Red Sox giving up top prospects and cash for a first baseman, it was nice to retroactively look back and see the Yankees acquire a player for simply cash. That’s it.

flickadave
4 years 8 months ago

Of course, if AGon does as well in Fenway compared to Petco as a lot of people think, this might make a lot of Red Sox fans love the Teixeira deal, too.

Sawksfan
4 years 8 months ago

Well said. Bravo.

Sawksfan
4 years 8 months ago

Well said. Bravo.

4 years 8 months ago

i understand what you are saying but thats what many people where also saying about granderson when he left detroit and came to the yankees.BUT i dont know any one who would even put granderson and AGON in the same skill level

4 years 8 months ago

Still not worth it.

wakefield4life
4 years 7 months ago

I liked Lackey. He did exactly what he was signed to do: stay healthy and win games. He’s not going to amaze anyone going from the Angels ballpark to Fenway, but he helped keep the sox in contention.

Steve_in_MA
4 years 7 months ago

He still managed to win 14 games in his “adjustment” year. I think the book on this is still being written. If Lackey ends up winning 17 or 18 games each, over the next two seasons, then the signing will definitely be looked upon as a success.

philpbarnes
4 years 8 months ago

Thats true. But Rizzo would have been blocked by Adrian anyway, and Kelly will simply be ‘replaced’ in a way by Ranaudo. And Fuentes is a toolsy OFer which we have a logjam of anyway.

A bit of a steal by the Sox really. Get Gonzo and still leave the farm in excellent shape. I was worried about losing Iglesias, Kalish and Britton. Oh and Bard too. Im amazed none of those four were included.

Beersy
4 years 8 months ago

I think the only prospect in the Red Sox system is Iglesias, so not losing him shouldn’t be a surprise. As for Kalish, as silly as this sounds, he’s to close to major league ready for the Padres. Bard is on the 25 man roster and the only strengh the Padres have on there club is the bullpen and that is even with Bell on the block. Britton is another story though. I was hoping as a Padre fan, that they would get at least 2 pitchers in this deal, with Kelly and Britton being the 2. I thought Kelly, Britton or Pimental, Fuentes and Gibson would have been a pretty nice haul for the Padres. I don’t really get the inclusion of Rizzo. The Padres must not be high on Blanks anymore, because if Hoyer follows through with what he’s saying, Blanks will not see the outfield again in Petco. It will be interesting to see who the 4th player is.

All in all, I think both teams made out all right today. Epstein got a premium talent and although Gonzalez will get a huge extension, if the Sox had other teams bidding the cost may have gone through the roof. Hoyer is smarter and ballsier( if that’s a word ) than I thougt he was. To trade away your teams star after narrowly missing the playoffs and havinng the guts to tell your fanbase, that you came into rebuild this team and that’s what you are going to do even after an almost Cinderella story is very impressive. Everything just fell into place for the Padres last year and Hoyer knew it wasn’t going to happen again.

4 years 8 months ago

If I were you I’d shut up until the actual contract numbers come out: Next season Gonzo’s contract is at $6 mil and this negotiating window gives Theo the privilege of not having to outbid competitors, only paying enough to satisfy Gonzo. Who knows, in the next few days we might find that Gonzo’s contract is nowhere near that $180 mil the Yankees have to pay Tex and you’ll only feel very stupid

Not to mention Tex’ contract has already proved to be an overpay

tarikshah
4 years 8 months ago

A few things:

1) There’s no need to tell people to shut up, it doesn’t further your point.

2) If Tex is at 8/180 and Ryan Howard is at 5/125, you can bet that Gonzo’s contract is going to be close to 7/160 and maybe even higher because he’s the same age as Tex was when he signed and of comparable skill. That the Red Sox will be negotiating with Gonzo exclusively will only get them so far.

3) Also, the Teixeira signing hurt the Red Sox twice. They had to trade prospects for V-Mart in 2009 to and now for Gonzo. Had Theo offered a few million more to Teixeira a couple years ago he might not have had to trade away Justin Masterson, Nick Hagadone, Bryan Price, Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo, and Reymond Fuentes.

4 years 8 months ago

Yeah, well… Derek Jeter.

4 years 8 months ago

“Alot” is a lot of words. Sorry, it’s the English major in me.

/grammar nazi

Infield Fly
4 years 8 months ago

I’m down with the grammar thing (keeping in mind that English is not an easy language). However the “communication nazi” in me wants to know: who is your correction for?

4 years 8 months ago

You are right. I was not entirely clear. From one nazi to another, I was referring to the third bullet point in Mr. Link’s story, regarding Keith Law’s reaction to the Gonzalez trade.

And I agree English isn’t an easy language, especially if it’s your second language. I don’t care about grammatical errors and typos in message boards but I think people who are getting paid to write should know better than to make high school mistakes.

Infield Fly
4 years 8 months ago

Got it – and you are right. Professional writers should have a firm command of their language as a matter of professionalism and pride.

Yeah…English… I derail with it sometimes but it seems that basic spelling gets past many people who are native speakers :-O

4 years 8 months ago

I believe that signing an extension is part of the deal. If that doesn’t get done, the deal is off if I’ve read right.

greengrove
4 years 8 months ago

It’s very nice that he’s a great fielder. But I’d rather hear him saying words like “Overpowering fastball” or “Knee-buckling curve.”

MaineSox
4 years 8 months ago

Well, if it helps he was rated as having the best curveball in the Red Sox system by baseball america…

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

Don’t worry, Kelly has some great pitches. But it is funny that Law is making such a big deal of his defensive capabilities. I’m pretty sure that’s not the quality Hoyer was looking for when he made the trade..

“Okay, we’re talking about trading Gonzalez again. What would you like to see in return, Jed?”

“A DEFENSIVE PITCHER! YAYY”

Jeremiah Graves
4 years 8 months ago

Unless the Pads wanna turn him back into a SS.

…granted if that were the case why not land Iglesias?!

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

Exactly. Doing a shortstop talent chart for Boston, Iglesias and Lowrie are easily above Kelly. Possibly Navarro too even; Kelly had decent potential at SS, but it was minimal compared to his talent as a pitcher.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

Don’t worry, Kelly has some great pitches. But it is funny that Law is making such a big deal of his defensive capabilities. I’m pretty sure that’s not the quality Hoyer was looking for when he made the trade..

“Okay, we’re talking about trading Gonzalez again. What would you like to see in return, Jed?”

“A DEFENSIVE PITCHER! YAYY”

TheHotCorner
4 years 8 months ago

The comment by Corey Brock of MLB.com about the Padres needing a 1B short-term. Is Kyle Blanks not going to be ready by spring? I know he is no A-Gon (how many players are) but I always assumed Kyle was his replacement. Especially with the number of outfielders on the team already.

padresfuture
4 years 8 months ago

Kyle may still be, but he is going to be spending most of the year rehabbing and will likely head to AAA. I would have to assume that he gets the starting 1B job in 2012. Rizzo likely wont be considered until 2013 at the MLB level, he will be insurance incase Blanks doesn’t improve at the big league level(especially his strike out rate).

HipNip2009
4 years 8 months ago

As a Giants fan, I LOVE this trade and hope it will be made, for obvious reasons. I don’t think the Red Sox will let him get away. Since they didn’t resign VMart and probably won’t resign Beltre, they can afford him. But, the Red Sox still have pitching issues that have to be addressed before they can be neck and neck with the Yankees again, assuming Cliff Lee or Zack Greinke goes there.

Oh, and Red Sox, thank you so much for Ramon Ramirez.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

Ramon Ramirez? You’re welcome.

GoAwayNow
4 years 8 months ago

I assure you it was our pleasure.

GoAwayNow
4 years 8 months ago

I assure you it was our pleasure.

Jeremiah Graves
4 years 8 months ago

I’m not a Sox homer or anything, but I think their pitching is in pretty good shape.

Lackey and Beckett won’t/can’t be as bad as they were last year. Buchholz and Lester are straight up money. Some combination of Wakefield/Dice-K/Bowden/etc… should hold down the five-spot pretty easily.

Heck they’re the Sox, they’ll likely find a reclamation project out there on the scrap heap as well–paging Brandon Wood, Mr. Wood to Fenway–or they could always just spend a little dough to bring in another arm, they do have like $50 million off the books.

Sd_brain
4 years 8 months ago

i think the sox won this trade, not because of who they traded but because it really wont have an effect on them. With Gonzo, rizzo was going to be blocked anyway. The red sox still have ranaudo to offset kelly and they have a surplus of outfielders to offset fuentes. The padres got some good prospects but the sox had the better end.

padresfuture
4 years 8 months ago

Given the offense will be very limited this year with AGON absent, should the Padres trade Bell, Ludwick, and possibly Adams now and put themselves in a position to contend in a few years with the talent they will yield?

Sd_brain
4 years 8 months ago

Bell will be traded but not now most likely by the deadline(the value for closers climbs). They would need to keep Adams to replace Bell later. As for Ludwick i think the padres will keep him for now so they can have some source of offense and if he is traded it will be by the deadline.

moonraker45
4 years 8 months ago

As a Jays fan, I HATE when the yankees or the red sox don’t make the playoffs… it usually means that in the offseason the team is going to go hard and be aggressive.

but its hard to be mad, it must be nice to be a fan of a team that proactively improves and gets, not a little bit better, but a heck of a lot better. It must be pretty nice to be a red sox fan right about now!!! besides half you being brain dead and all … (just kidding, hard to resist!)

kimofromkauai
4 years 8 months ago

Also a disaster for the Rays in my opinion. The competition just got tougher and maybe 2011 is looking like a “punt” year after all.

GoAwayNow
4 years 8 months ago

Unless the Rays win 95 games 1-0 I don’t see how they’re making it to the postseason.

kimofromkauai
4 years 8 months ago

Also a disaster for the Rays in my opinion. The competition just got tougher and maybe 2011 is looking like a “punt” year after all.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

As a Red Sox fan, I really respect Jays fans. You guys really got it tough, but you keep on going. :) Jays would be a perennial postseason contender in nearly every other division.

And yeah, I’ll admit that today is a really good day for Boston fans. :) It’s a nice change from last years offseason too. That was just frustrating, aside from the nice Beltre surprise.

BoSoxSam
4 years 8 months ago

As a Red Sox fan, I really respect Jays fans. You guys really got it tough, but you keep on going. :) Jays would be a perennial postseason contender in nearly every other division.

And yeah, I’ll admit that today is a really good day for Boston fans. :) It’s a nice change from last years offseason too. That was just frustrating, aside from the nice Beltre surprise.

braincapers
4 years 8 months ago

Lackey, Beckett, Maza don’t give me a happy warm fuzzy feeling.

Zuidvogels
4 years 8 months ago

I’m guessing he gets something like,

2011: 10-15M 2012: 18M 2013: 18M 2014: 20M 2015: 20M 2016: 20M 2017: Option for 20M with 5M buyout.

RahZid
4 years 8 months ago

probably more like $22-23M per year through and including 2017 + $5M signing bonus (so $11M for 2011). Club option for $23M with a $6M buyout for the 2018 season. That would come in at 6 years $143M – $149M for the extension. Bringing his remain money around 7 years $149M – $155M.

Zuidvogels
4 years 8 months ago

Probably if he was a FA. But I’m guessing this deal is going to look more like an extension offer then a FA offer.

RahZid
4 years 8 months ago

AGon would still need to agree to it though. I suppose he does have slightly less leverage than he would as an FA though.

Zuidvogels
4 years 8 months ago

Probably if he was a FA. But I’m guessing this deal is going to look more like an extension offer then a FA offer.

RahZid
4 years 8 months ago

probably more like $22-23M per year through and including 2017 + $5M signing bonus (so $11M for 2011). Club option for $23M with a $6M buyout for the 2018 season. That would come in at 6 years $143M – $149M for the extension. Bringing his remain money around 7 years $149M – $155M.

RahZid
4 years 8 months ago

Also, lets not forget that Fuentes is easily 3 years away from the bigs. I was expecting the Sox to give up more major-league ready players. I have trouble seeing any of these 3 in the bigs the first half of next season, likely not till 2012. The Sox still have most of their farm intact, and can reload it in the upcoming draft with their projected 6 picks in the first round / supplemental round (5 if/when they sign a type A FA).

*Edited for spelling

Beersy
4 years 8 months ago

The Padres didn’t want major-league ready players. Hoyer knows the Padres are years away from contending and he is trying to build a pipeline of players from the minors. Getting Ellsbury or Lowrie would have made no sense. This was a good deal for both sides. Being a Padre fan, I am really interested to see who the PTBNL will be.

RahZid
4 years 8 months ago

I just thought it would be easier to sell to the fan base if they got someone that they could put in the lineup opening day. Also, my early guess is that Jason Rice is the PTBNL.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 8 months ago

So what, officialy, is the prospect package? Kelly, Fuentes, Rizzo and a PTBNL ?????.

Zuidvogels
4 years 8 months ago

Indeed it is.