Reds Shopping Yonder Alonso For Pitching

The Reds are offering Yonder Alonso as trade bait in their search for a closer or a No. 2 starter, reports Yahoo Sports' Tim Brown.  Reds GM Walt Jocketty has spoken to several teams — including the A's, Blue Jays, Indians and Rays — about Alonso, though we heard earlier this week that the Reds thought Alonso was too much to give up for Oakland closer Andrew Bailey.

Alonso is regarded as Cincinnati's top hitting prospect, if one without a Major League position since Joey Votto is cemented at first base.  The 24-year-old has an OPS of .837 in four minor league seasons and hit .330/.398/.545 in 98 plate appearances with the Reds last year. 

If the Reds were willing to move him, you would think Alonso would be too much to deal for any closer, not just Bailey.  Jocketty has said his club's top priority is finding a starting pitcher this offseason, so while the Jays and Indians have some good young arms, they wouldn't be willing to deal a top-of-the-rotation caliber of starter for which the Reds are looking.  The Jays and Tribe also have other options at first base, though Adam Lind, Edwin Encarnacion and Matt LaPorta wouldn't be major obstacles if Toronto or Cleveland had a legitimate shot at Alonso.  The A's and Reds might not be a match on Bailey, but Jocketty might deem possibly-available pitchers like Gio Gonzalez or Trevor Cahill worthy of moving Alonso. 

The most logical match would appear to be Tampa Bay, who has a big hole at first base, lots of pitching and a need for a controllable young talent like Alonso.  The Rays could offer Wade Davis or Jeff Niemann, though the Reds are more likely looking for a pitcher like James Shields.  (Obviously David Price and Jeremy Hellickson are staying put.)


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388 Comments on "Reds Shopping Yonder Alonso For Pitching"


bomberj11
3 years 9 months ago

I don’t get why they’d be shopping him for a closer…have they looked at the market recently? Not only that, but it’s a prime example of a team overvaluing the closer position.

crzycanuck
3 years 9 months ago

Not only that but if Alonso lives up to expectations, he can be a superstar.  Alonso for Bailey straight up would be a foolish trade for Cincy.  They would definitely have to throw in a Gonzalez or Cahill to the mix.  Oakland has a multitude of pitching and an atrocious offense so it would work out well for the A’s to get a guy that can hit.  At this point Votto is much more valuable than Alonso at 1B so the deal would also work out for the Reds as well.

3 years 9 months ago

So you’re saying Gonzalez/Cahill AND Bailey for Alonso? Lol. 

chico65
3 years 9 months ago

The Reds are hoping some team looks over Yonder beyond the market

laboyzz
3 years 9 months ago

when i guy like nathan is getting 7 million a year, its not a great market. you could sign madson for around 10 a year, or a guy coming off a bad season or injury like broxton for probably around 6-7 million plus incentives. or you could trade for a cheaper young guy like bailey who is under contract for a few years, but will cost prospects. I think they should kill 2 birds and trade for Gio and Bailey together. Alonso, one of their catcher prospects, and a few other prospects…. 1 more high level and 2 or 3 mid-level.

jb226
3 years 9 months ago

Hmm.  Do the Cubs get interested (using Garza, most probably)?  And if so, does it hold interest for the Reds?

Brent Wittenbrink
3 years 9 months ago

Would Garza and Marmol interest the Reds?  Would division rivals approach the deal?

3 years 9 months ago

That would be theft for the Reds. An unproven guy at a position they already have an MVP at for a #2 starter and a proven closer. 

Tom Mack
3 years 9 months ago

The Cubs just offered arbitration to Pena and they already have Bryan LaHair, last year’s PCL MVP for first base, why would they be interested in anyone else. I doubt Theo would be all that interested.

jb226
3 years 9 months ago

Because Pena is a stopgap at best, and Bryan LaHair is somebody working to shed the label of being a AAAA player.  Maybe he turns into the next Jose Bautista, but until he does something substantial for a prolonged period of time at the Major League level nobody should bet the franchise on that happening.  If they want to give him a chance and find out in what is likely to be a lost year, I’m all for that — but I’m not considering him a long-term solution until then, and I’m sure Theo isn’t either.

Honestly, I wasn’t questioning whether or not the Cubs would want Alonso; the real question is if they would want to use Garza to acquire him.  He is the Cubs’ only real trade chip (aside from Castro which is not happening) and there are an awful lot of holes to fill.

laboyzz
3 years 9 months ago

pena is not gonna accept it. he can get a multi-year deal in this years market as the 3rd best 1b out there. wait until Price and Albert (re)sign

3 years 9 months ago

Daniel Bard..

Encarnacion's Parrot
3 years 9 months ago

And why exactly would the Red Sox need another 1B?

3 years 9 months ago

Yonder could play some RF 😛 But I was mostly joking.

Encarnacion's Parrot
3 years 9 months ago

Ahh. Didn’t sense the tongue in your cheek :p. Maybe Yonder can be their manager?

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

hey cool idea: dont troll

3 years 9 months ago

I hope so, he hasn’t shown the ability to play other position.

Hits & Gigs
3 years 9 months ago

WANT. 

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

Well if Brett Lawrie gets you 2 years of Shaun Marcum, Yonder Alonso doesn’t get you 4 years of Gio Gonzalez. Wake me when they start throwing Grandal in the mix.

3 years 9 months ago

They’ll probably do something with the Rays.

Casmir Valeri
3 years 9 months ago

Minnesota Twins?

3 years 9 months ago

Twins have no closer and no #2 starting pitchers, if the Reds are looking for a #5 starter then you’re on the right track.

Thomas W
3 years 9 months ago

Scot Baker is a #3 on a bad day

3 years 9 months ago

Brandon League and James Paxton (23 year old LHP, 95-99MPH fastball, great slider,,   #3 prospect in Seattle) for Yonder Alonso and Yasmani Grandal… Who says no?

WarvsBA
3 years 9 months ago

Reds with out a doubt 

3 years 9 months ago

I don’t know about that. That’s a decent trade. They have Mesoraco and Votto at those positions, and with League they’re set at closer, and Paxton a solid starter prospect. Seattle probably would need to add more, but it’s certainly not “without a doubt”

laboyzz
3 years 9 months ago

joe l- 

definitely without a doubt. neither grandal or alonso would be traded straight up for league and paxton. and no i am not a reds fan. just because they have votto and mesoraco doesnt mean they give away the best players in their system. they are teaching alonso to play LF, so they are not stuck if they hold onto him. Alonso seperately can return a legit #2 starter (with a mid level prospect or 3) like Shields, Gio, etc. that offer is a joke that only could have come from a M’s fan.

bbxxj
3 years 9 months ago

Reds though it depends on how they evaluate Paxon’s MLB readiness.

3 years 9 months ago

He´s ready for the show, and he´s really good, 12.9 K/9 his last season, 1.85 ERA…

Encarnacion's Parrot
3 years 9 months ago

In A and AA. Those numbers don’t exactly translate to MLB numbers. He’s still a year away, minimum. Has a good arm though.

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

we need an ace….not a prospect

3 years 9 months ago

So, Pineda, League, Triunfel and Figgins +16 millions for Votto, Grandal and Alonso makes sense for both sides…

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

why would the reds trade both votto and alonso?

3 years 9 months ago

Sorry, it was a mistake, the package would not include Alonso, only Votto and Grandal for Pineda, League, Triunfel and Figgins with his salary, probably the Reds would have to include Frazier…

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

i think this would be a major overpay by the reds

3 years 9 months ago

Not really, 5 years of Pineda (a #1 pitcher, an ace for the minimun salary), 2 years of Brandon League, 2 years of Figgins (free), and 6 years of Carlos Triunfel who´s an interesting prospect for 2 years of Joey Votto and Yasmani Grandal, fair trade IMO…

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

pineda for yonder and volquez and juan Francisco?

3 years 9 months ago

Volquez is awful, the M´s have problems with K´s  so Francisco is not an option and Alonso is interesting but not worth Pineda… 

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

yeah i dont think yonder=pineda either

Wilsonl
3 years 9 months ago

Add Ackley.

Joe
3 years 9 months ago

I would pay for Figgens not to be on the roster.

chico65
3 years 9 months ago

Tell you what, $20 and I can assure you that you’ll never find Figgens on their roster again.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

I think it’s too early to label Pineda as a true #1. Great looking pitcher but he threw his FB 65% of the time and the slider 30% of the time. He needs to develop a 3rd pitch once the league sees him a couple of times.  

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

Pineda, League & Ackley for Votto, Grandal & Bailey helps both teams, actually.

Thomas W
3 years 9 months ago

So 10 cost controlled years of two proven excellent players at premium positions 1-2 Starter, 2B and a cheap Closer, for an expensive 2 Years of an Excellent player who would arguably be the third best FA at his position right now(Votto), the second best Catcher in the Reds Minors(Grandal) and a poor performing former top prospect? Something tells me the Mariners don’t do that deal

k0o56
3 years 9 months ago

Since when did they fire Jack Z?!?!

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

And why would the Reds want Figgins? It’s like you’re trying to offset salary for the M’s when in fact, Votto is UNDER market value. 

Votto and a lesser prospect for Pineda, Truinfel and League is probably more appropriate. 

laboyzz
3 years 9 months ago

what a joke! maybe you can trade figgins and pineda for Adrian Gonzalez, Clay Bucholz and pedroia. Seriously people, stop posting your wet-dream trades!

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

How high do you have to be to think Yonder Alonso will get you an ace?

I really want some of that.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

Not one on one but I think he can center one for a #2 type.

harmony55
3 years 9 months ago

I still like five years of Michael Pineda, one year of Brandon League, two years of Chone Figgins and cash for two years of Edinson Volquez and six years each of Yonder Alonso and Yasmani Grandal.

The pitching-poor Reds get two reigning All Star pitchers for two promising but unproven prospects (who are older than Pineda). Figgins (with cash) provides a potential bounce-back leadoff hitter while the Mariners pay over market value for Volquez (and his 2011 ERA of 5.71 and ERA+ of 68). League holds down the closer role until Brad Boxberger is ready.

The Mariners would hope that Alonso develops more than Justin Smoak, who was a higher-ranked prospect than Alonso (who is only four month younger), and Mike Carp, who was the American League Rookie of the Month in August by hitting .313 with six homeruns and 25 RBI after posting a .343/.411/.649/1.060 line in only 251 at-bats at Triple A last season.

laboyzz
3 years 9 months ago

um the reds in a half a second. the only guy on their roster who could get a return of both of them would be felix. otherwise hell no!

SwingtimeInTheRockies
3 years 9 months ago

So the Reds wouldn’t trade a guy – good as he is – that they can’t really use for Andrew Bailey?  Cincy’s going to have to figure out that Alonso does them little good playing AAA-ball for another year and the rest of the league is wise.  The Reds just aren’t in a position to make a market here.

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

they will trade him but not for a closer

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

They can easily dump Heisy and slot Alonzo in a corner spot if they wanted to. But they need pitching and he’s one of their best trade pieces.

Gunner65
3 years 9 months ago

Just because he is blocked by Votto doesn’t devalue Alonso anymore than Bailey’s injury history doesn’t devalue him according to A’s fans :)

bbxxj
3 years 9 months ago

I haven’t watched any Alonso in LF. Is he passable out there? If so some sort of Jurrjens + x for Alonso + x would work out for both teams. Maybe Jurrjens and a good relief prospect like Hoover for Alonso and Janish? With Alonso and Janish our offseason shopping would pretty much be done outside of moving Prado if someone wows us.

3 years 9 months ago

He´s not passable in LF, he´s like Adam Dunn but with a backpack, well, he´s awful right there, really, would be a lot of inside the park homers…

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

A -3.9 for a guy unfamiliar with the position isn’t horrible. He needs time to adjust.

3 years 9 months ago

well its pretty horrible in the context of 110 innings. i’ll buy the unfamiliarity a bit, but my first thought is that he may lack the physical ability to play out there, especially in the long term. 

3 years 9 months ago

no he allowed tony campana to have a inside the park homer at wrigley 

3 years 9 months ago

I’d want JJ + Prado +Delgado for Frazier + Alonso personally but only if the Braves were confident in Freeman or Alonso in LF and I have heard Freddie’s got a gun.

Jeff
3 years 9 months ago

JJ+Prado+Delgado= superstar return.  Not Alonso.

tomymogo
3 years 9 months ago

Joey Votto, and even then with Freeman at 1B they would’t be interested

Gunner65
3 years 9 months ago

He had some really awkward moments out there, no denying it and it seemed to happen the most in his first trip to an unfamiliar ball park. But there were times where he looked passable … which I could live with as long as he continues to hit the way he did at the end of the year.

tomymogo
3 years 9 months ago

JJ for Alonso straight up and then trade him for a LF?

MetsMagic
3 years 9 months ago

If a team got Alonso for a closer, that’d be a steal. 

OaklandFan22
3 years 9 months ago

alonso 4 bailey would work out great for both teams

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

no it wouldnt…we need a starter…not a closer

OaklandFan22
3 years 9 months ago

fine we’ll package bailey and cahill for alonso and some other prospects of yours

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

im not sure cahill is an ace…

OaklandFan22
3 years 9 months ago

it says in the article there looking for a number 2 starter 

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

i think they would probably need someone more proven

Joe
3 years 9 months ago

The artcile is lying. We need a number 1. I’m not convinced Cueto is a true Ace.

roberty
3 years 9 months ago

I think the article understands that aces don’t grow on trees, and nobody is going to trade one to the Reds for a 24 year old first base prospect. 

3 years 9 months ago

I can understand why Reds fans want a starter for Alonso, but come on…

Brett Lawrie was a more valuable commodity at the time of the Marcum trade than Alonso is and most people regarded that trade as being pretty fair for both teams at the time it was made. On that basis, expect a starter of slightly less value than Marcum for two years or substantially less value for more years in exchange for Alonso.

That or a really good reliever.

3 years 9 months ago

Bailey is a reliever.  Top 50 prospects for relievers is never a smart move. 

3 years 9 months ago

I’d love for the Braves to jump on that.  Reds probably want someone better than Jurrjens, and I don’t know that Jurrjens + Prado (if Phillips walks) makes much more sense.  If the Reds didn’t like either of those but were willing to take prospects I’d totally trade Delgado plus a low minors something interesting.

3 years 9 months ago

Seriously?  There’s just no matchup here at all.  Where would Alonzo play, anyway?  Looks like few think he could even be passable in LF, and we’ve kinda got this first base thing figured out already.  Moreover, Phillips is signed (whether he likes it or not) for 2012, so Prado isn’t a trade option… and a Jurrjens trade would command a heckuva lot more than even a top prospect alone – hopefully a decent (proven) Major League bat. 

I do think that a Jurrjens-like pitcher is what Cincy would like to get, but unless there’s a Zambrano in their future (no), I agree that the Tampa idea makes a ton more sense.

Jeff
3 years 9 months ago

He’d have to either be able to play in LF, or he’d be an upgrade over Hinske as a bench bat/DH/occasional LF/1B.

If I was to offer, it would be JJ+Hinske for Alonso+ prospect.

3 years 9 months ago

They’re not going to trade Jurrjens for a bench bat lol. 

Jeff
3 years 9 months ago

He’d start in LF, barring a signing of Beltran or some elite bat.
So not just a bench bat.  More interleague means more DH also.

Beachbummer
3 years 9 months ago

I think Jeff Niemann and Sam Fuld for Alonso sounds fair.

3 years 9 months ago

Take away Fuld and you’re set. Niemann is a proven starter in the AL East. Alonso is not as good as people make him out to be. 

3 years 9 months ago

No matchup?  Reds want pitching, Braves have pitching.  Braves want a corner OF bat, Alonso “can” be a corner (power) OF bat.  And like it or not, no one is as high on Jurrjens as we want them to be because of his peripherals.

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

Just do Alonso for Bailey already Reds, Alonso is getting too old and no one wants a 1B except Oakland. Bailey is a fantastic reliever, the epitome of a closer and is cost controlled for a while. Both teams win.

OaklandFan22
3 years 9 months ago

i totally agree

3 years 9 months ago

Yeah you agree because you’re getting an everyday player for a reliever. 

Thomas W
3 years 9 months ago

Is Yonder Alonso spanish for Joe Koshansky or Matt Laporta?

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

except for the fact where the reds get a guy who pitches at most 60 innings for a guy who plays everyday

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

fine get brad lidge or something and keep alonso at AAA until he’s 29, thats smart

3 years 9 months ago

Just like “I have this valuable commodity I’ll trade for less than it’s worth because of reasons!”

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

or just trade him for a starter….

3 years 9 months ago

Jeff Niemann

vilifyingforce
3 years 9 months ago

So the only team interested in the MLB is Oakland? Didn’t know we had real life insider’s on this site.

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

Who else needs a 1B and has announced they have SP’s available? Just Oakland as far as I’ve seen.

vilifyingforce
3 years 9 months ago

So teams have to announce they have something available before they’re allowed to make a trade? Man this new CBA is killin’ me.

nictonjr
3 years 9 months ago

 The A’s can keep Bailey and  play Daric Barton at 1B.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

A closer doesn’t do much good if your team is down by 5 in the 9th inning. Why use Alonzo to obtain a closer the same year they changed the CBA to make sure that a free agent reliever like Madson, Bell, Francisco or K-Rod won’t cost a pick? Just sign one of the FA closers and use Alonzo to fill more pressing needs.

Gio and Cardenas for Alonzo, Hamilton and a mid-level prospect sounds fair.

3 years 9 months ago

They dont have the money to sign free agents thats why we are making trades.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

A) Starters are more important than closers.

B) Starters are more expensive than closers and if there is a money crunch then it makes sense to use one of your best assets to obtain a starter.

C) Haven’t heard that they weren’t able to add ANY salary and they have about $15-$18 mil off the books from Cordero, Renteria, Hernandez, Gomes and others.

3 years 9 months ago

The Rays do…need a 1B and a DH.

3 years 9 months ago

Seems to me the Rays already have a Yonder Alonso in the system. His name is Russ Canzler, one year older than Alonso but put up good numbers in AAA this year: .314/.401/.530 vs Alonso’s .303/.379/.498 split between AAA and MLB. Early projections also have Alonso around an .800 OPS for 2012, nothing earth shattering for a first baseman. While having Canzler at 1B isn’t ideal, I don’t see Alonso as much of an upgrade and certainly would not trade Shields for him.

3 years 9 months ago

Two bats putting up those numbers is better than what we had last year, and probably keeps us ahead of Boston, and closer to NY.

3 years 9 months ago

Yonder Alonso for Henderson Alvarez straight up anybody?

3 years 9 months ago

Can’t see Toronto doing that deal.  They really like Alvarez and have Lind for now at 1B.  He’s obviously not ideal, but I don’t think they’d give up a 21 year old arm like HA for another 1B.

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

I think the Reds need a more ready-now player, but that would be a fleecing by the Jays if it went through. Alonso is an upgrade over any 1B option they have and Alvarez is no sure bet to even make the bigs and is even having injury issues already. Alvarez makes no sense for the Reds who are trying to win now.

3 years 9 months ago

Are you confused as to who Henderson Alvarez is?  He’s already IN the big leagues and isn’t hurt.  He made 10 starts for Toronto down the stretch.

I’m not saying he’s some superstar, I’m just curious if you’re thinking of a different player

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

It appears I have. I still think both teams win with an Alvarez-Alonso straight swap even though the Reds are convinced he can bring in a legit #2 starter, when Alvarez isn’t that level yet. 

cyberboo
3 years 9 months ago

Henderson Alvarez is now the number 3 pitcher for the Jays and every scout on the planet refers to him as Felix Hernandez 2.0.  That is how good he is.  He throws 100mph and more importantly, he can put the ball on the eye of a pin, anytime he wants.  It would cost Alonso plus prospects to even consider moving Toronto’s future ace in 2013, if he doesn’t take over the #1 spot in 2012. 

3 years 9 months ago

No scout on the planet refers to him as Felix Hernandez 2.0.  He just came up young (not nearly as young as Felix, mind you) and his favourite pitcher is Hernandez.  But when Felix came up, he already had a hammer curve and slider.  Alvarez has no real breaking ball to speak of yet. And Felix was an ace already at the age Alvarez is now.

He’s a very solid, young arm, but let’s not go nuts.

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

Have you seen his slider?!

He’s not gonna be as good as Felix Hernandez, but he’s gonna make it close.

3 years 9 months ago

I have seen his slider, and it’s VEEERRRRRRRRRRRY inconsistent. It backs up more often than it breaks.  He also doesn’t miss nearly as many bats as Felix.

He won’t make it close, but that’s because 99% of the pitchers in professional baseball won’t make it close.  He’ll (hopefully) be a top of the rotation guy though.

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

You and cyberboo are both setting yourselves up for major disappointment if you’re expecting him to be anywhere near the pitcher that Felix is.  Maybe he does make it to something close to that at some point, but expecting it is a terrible idea.

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

No no no, saying he’s gonna make it close is a bit of a mistake on my part – he has the stuff and the potential to make it close; we’ll see eventually… but he’s got plus stuff, and is still very young.

3 years 9 months ago

He does have a slider in the works. The Jays back stops were forcing him to throw it the last 5-6 games he pitched. It is a work in progress, but apparently shows promise.

3 years 9 months ago

Exactly.  “In the works.”  It’s VERY much a work in progress and there’s no guarantee that it actually ever becomes a plus or even average pitch

JaysNesan
3 years 9 months ago

Last year in Seatle, Alverez met Felix (born in same city) and got his input. Mariners’ manager impressed and prized Alverez as a future Felix after watching his came.

3 years 9 months ago

That’s not a scout. That’s hyperbole from the opposing manager. 

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

The kid who has never stuck out more than 6.6/9 IP?

The kid who fangraphs has averaging 93.3 mph last year?

Or the kid who threw his FB 72% of the time?

I think you are overhyping this kid. Think Joba. Let’s wait and see before you suggest he’s going to be better than Romero in 2012.

hurley55
3 years 9 months ago

He was clocked at 100 in AA, and he hit 99 at the futures game. His K/9 is puzzling considering the filthy stuff he has, a lot like Jarred Cosart.  Jays fans are overhyping him as much as Yankee fans are with Banuelos.

notsureifsrs
3 years 9 months ago

he’s never struck out 7 per 9 in his entire professional career

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

If you look at Roy Halladay, he’s had similar stuff all his career, and his K/9 numbers didn’t see a substantial increase until Rod Barajas became his catcher in his final season with the Jays…

Not saying Alvarez is going to be as good as Doc, but why the HELL are you knocking a guy for not posting high K/9 numbers? It’s not about strikeouts… it’s about outs.

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

If you look at Roy Halladay, he’s had similar stuff all his career, and his K/9 numbers didn’t see a substantial increase until Rod Barajas became his catcher in his final season with the Jays…

Not saying Alvarez is going to be as good as Doc, but why the HELL are you knocking a guy for not posting high K/9 numbers? It’s not about strikeouts… it’s about outs.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

I just report the facts ‘bro. That’s what was listed at fangraphs. As for Bans, it’s not hype…it’s called a scouting report. No one made a declaration such as “He’s going to be as good as Felix Hernandez or he’ll take over the #1 spot on a staff lead by ROmero in 2012″. That’s hype.

PS- 96 mph isn’t the same as 100 mph but that’s what Nova throws and he doesn’t miss as many bats as one would think. Neither has Alvarez….even in the minors.

He may well be a future star but let’s give more weight to the stats and not just the fact he hit 100 mph on the clock. So did Joba.

3 years 9 months ago

wouldnt be surprised if the gun at the futures game is a little generous. in the bigs we saw him run it up there 96-98 on occasion, but generally sitting 91-95. 

i think the exciting thing about him is the fact that he has a fairly high floor. plus fastball, plus change-up and plus control should make him an above average pitcher for a long time. if he manages to add the third pitch he could be really special. 

he’s really a prospect that came out of nowhere. started as a third baseman, moved to the mound and then just this year found an extra gear in his fastball. 

obviously the felix comps are ridiculous, but if it were my decision i would value him over alonso, and by a fair bit too.

Sniderlover
3 years 9 months ago

Maybe but he is pretty darn good. Mid 90’s 2-seamer/sinking fastball which he can locate well and has a solid change-up. The slider isn’t there yet but he’s shown the ability to throw a lot of strikes, not walk many, and get groundballs. He doesn’t get a whole lot of K’s but he’s got a big arm and induces weak contact. The K’s might come if he can develop that slider into a good pitch but he’ll never be a 8-9 K/9 type guy. If he can get into it 6-7 range, he’ll be excellent. 

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.. the Reds WILL NOT get a #2 starter for Alonso.

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

I agree, I don’t know why they think they can…but adding Grandal and other pieces might.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

I don’t think anyone is suggesting it would be a one for one deal but certainly he can headline a deal for one.

johnsmith4
3 years 9 months ago

Last August, at age 21, Alvarez started pitching in the majors.  When AA first took over as Jays GM two and a half years ago, he identified Alvarez as their best prospect.

I will be shocked if AA sees Alonso as equal value for Alvarez.

3 years 9 months ago

Not clear to me that Alonso really is any better than Lind, Cooper, or EE to play 1B for the jays.

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

It seems very clear to me. 

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

clean your screen.

3 years 9 months ago

i kind of agree. its funny how similar cooper and alonso look when you line them up

drafted the same year, pretty much the same age.

career minor league numbers
cooper .299/.373/.462
alonso .293/.370/.466

both can take a walk, both have shown fringy power (for 1B’s). (i guess it should be noted that cooper maybe had a leg up since he was playing in the PCL this year, and at a good park for lefties in new hampshire last year. I dont know anything about the places alonso played at.)

now it could be one of those things where the numbers dont tell the whole story. just like how brett lawrie’s AA numbers last year werent mind blowing, but it was obvious to people who saw him that he was an elite talent. however there are people like goldstein who view alonso as kind of an average at best 1B. i’m not sure i’d be willing to give anything of value up for him, the jays already have enough average at best 1B’s, and lind and EE still have upside. 

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

Alvarez is going nowhere; he throws 90-94, with the ability to touch 100, with the nastiest moving fastball I’ve ever seen. It’s like Verlanders fastball with sink to it… Don’t believe me… watch the footage…

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=18679735

cyberboo
3 years 9 months ago

I watched that game and the Orioles went the whole game without hitting a ball to the outfield.  All the outs were via strikeout or ground out.  That is how dominating he can be during his career.  The guy doesn’t walk anyone either, so he is never beating himself.

Zuidvogels
3 years 9 months ago

The kid looks promising, but shutting down the Orioles isn’t exactly the best way to determine how shut down he can be.

As far as Alonso goes, if the reds want an established #1 or #2 they will have to add to the package. If they want a straight up trade then one of the young pitchers from TB or someone of that same ilk makes sense.

JaysNesan
3 years 9 months ago

Lind is OK right now. Jays can wait until Votto become available. Alonso is not upgrade to Lind. Lind has 20 or more HRs over last 3 seasons. He has a trade value and Jays can get good return when Votto become avilable. Personnaly, I think David Cooper is much better (PL MVP last year) than Alonso.

rzepczynski
3 years 9 months ago

 man… jays fans like you are the reason ppl hate on jays fans….. cooper better than alonso that has to be a joke… if you are serious then you either havent seen alonso or you over hype jays like crazy lind sucks and so does cooper

Thomas W
3 years 9 months ago

to be fair to Lind when he was Alonso’s age he was in his third MLB Season and hit .305/.370/.562 with 35 HR and 46 2B’s  if anything Lind’s performance since might make them more hesitant to move proven pitchers for 1B/DH types

johnsmith4
3 years 9 months ago

I think he was implying Alonso is becoming a “money-ball” player because of unmet expectations.  Thus, marketable to Tampa for reasons similar to Cooper being attractive to Tampa.

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

What the hell has Alonso done? Cooper is more proven in the Minors, and Lind is more proven in the MLB… So you’re either retarded, or just smoking the same stuff the reds are…

Until Alonso completes an MLB season, Lind and Cooper BOTH have a statistical advantage over Alonso.

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

What the hell has Alonso done? Cooper is more proven in the Minors, and Lind is more proven in the MLB… So you’re either retarded, or just smoking the same stuff the reds are…

Until Alonso completes an MLB season, Lind and Cooper BOTH have a statistical advantage over Alonso.

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

“with the nastiest moving fastball I’ve ever seen”

Been watching baseball for a year, have we?

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

Clearly someone didn’t watch the footage…
Play collegiate ball then gimme a call 😉

notsureifsrs
3 years 9 months ago

within that one highlight, he got six outs (2 DP to get out of jams) on pitches down the middle. that’s nothing to brag about, and makes for a very different kind of highlight against a better lineup

Sniderlover
3 years 9 months ago

To be fair, he throws a 2-seamer/sinking and has good movement on the pitches so if it is down the middle, it can fool some hitters. If I remember correctly, Orioles were pretty hot at that time.

Either way, its not really good to use highlights of his best start to determine anything.

I think he can be a really good pitcher. He’s got the stuff, poise and throws tons of strikes and he is just 21. I don’t know if he will get there but he’s got the potential.

notsureifsrs
3 years 9 months ago

anybody can get away with a sinker over the middle sometimes. that doesn’t make it any less of a red flag

as you mentioned, the kid has a plus fastball, good control, and the potential to develop a plus slider. he’s very young and has a high ceiling. that’s a lot of positives and that’s all anyone should be saying. this stuff about 100 MPH and “nastiest fastball ever” and “felix hernandez” is just goofy

Sniderlover
3 years 9 months ago

Agreed, that’s a lot of exaggeration from some of the Jays fans. I lol’d at the “nastiest fastball ever” comment.

johnsmith4
3 years 9 months ago

Probably young kids….and if so….for them, it would be “nastiest fastball ever” lol

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

100 MPH is not an exaggeration…
Clearly you’ve never watched a game where he’s pitched, his fastball may not be the “nastiest ever” but it has the most movement I’ve seen in recent memory… (there are other guys with good heaters, but you get the idea)

Let’s not get nit picky here.

johnsmith4
3 years 9 months ago

Just finished sweeping Boston if I remember correctly.

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

Highlights were just to showcase the movement on his fastball.

3 years 9 months ago

Pineda, League, Triunfel and Figgins +16 millions for Votto, Grandal and Frazier makes sense for both sides…

3 years 9 months ago

Hehe, what?  That makes sense for both sides of Seattle, maybe.  That package wouldn’t be enough to get Votto alone, let alone Votto, Grandal and Alonso. 
Triunfel’s star has really faded, League is a reliever and Figgins is terrible. Pineda is obviously legit, but you don’t trade a perennial MVP candidate, his top prospect replacement AND a good catching prospect for that.

3 years 9 months ago

Alonso would not be in the package, only 2 years of Votto and Grandal for Pineda, League , Triunfel and Figgins, maybe Vargas or Beavan too..

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

grandal would not be a free agent after two years….we just drafted him

3 years 9 months ago

2 years of Votto, Grandal is still in the minors

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

oh okay

3 years 9 months ago

Seems I misread it. My apologies.

Either way, Votto doesn’t go for a young stud pitcher and a bunch of filler.  He would go to a team that had 2-3 star pieces, if at all.

k0o56
3 years 9 months ago

LOL. So does that mean a team like Colorado can trade Street, Stewart, Field, and some cash for Ackley, Hernandez, and Moore?

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

See now Cincy is a place I could see Gio going.  Alonso + would make sense for both teams.

OaklandFan22
3 years 9 months ago

ya but they would have to give up alonso plus some other good prospects

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

Sure, but Cincy really needs pitching, and Oakland really needs a 1B (and offense in general).

OaklandFan22
3 years 9 months ago

yepp i agree

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

i dont know if they would take him with his issue with walks

OaklandFan22
3 years 9 months ago

haha dude look at his era and k number the guy is solid haha u think there going to get lyk a halladay calliber pitcher for him they wont

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

no but im just saying the reds already have issues with walks…it would be interesting and i dont think they could get halladay for him, but their looking for a 1 or 2 guy and have a good enough farm to give up some people to get one

OaklandFan22
3 years 9 months ago

aight i gotcha

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

im sure they would bite though

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

 The best the Reds will get for Alonso straight up will be a Number 3-4 starter, and a C+/B- level prospect.

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

thats why i said give up some ppl, not just yonder

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

Yeah, I know that that is a concern with him, but he is still a pretty good pitcher and is a lot better than what the Reds currently have. Plus Alonso is blocked (and currently being shopped) so if they could get Gio for Alonso plus a couple other guys I think it would be a good deal for them.

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

Alonso, Grandal and Homer Bailey probably get Gio & Andrew Bailey.

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

i could see this happening

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

That’d be pretty interesting actually.

CaseyBlakeDeWitt
3 years 9 months ago

Mmm, I don’t know. Didn’t they ask for at least Morrison or Stanton for Gio as a starting place? Those are two proven players (if only somewhat in Morrison’s case), and Alonso and Grandal are both just prospects, albeit ones with high potential. I think if they’re giving up both Gio and Bailey they would ask for at least a little more than those three.

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

Buster Olney said the A’s never asked the Marlins for anything and the teams hadn’t done anything other than have preliminary talks. Who to believe? I dunno man, its hot stove season where journalists literally make things up and lie to create stories. I’d be pretty happy if I got paid to write a wishcasting article and have mlbTR pick it up and run it like it actually really was happening!

jpshark
3 years 9 months ago

I doubt that. I personally think Beane will get quite a package for Gio, probably one at least as good as the one your offering for Gio and Bailey both. They’ll go in seperate trades to maximize the return unless the Reds offer up much more then what you have here. I personally think Gio will end up in pinstripes for a package including Montero and one of Banuelos/Betances. As much as I can’t stand em, they could probably offer the most impressive package of both position players and pitchers.

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

Gardner, Montero, one of the B’s and another player could get the Yankees just about any young SP they wanted. If they swap those 4 for Gio as an A’s fan I’d be so excited, thats really the ultimate turnaround I think of that’s in the realm of possibility.

Or the Reds could offer Jay Bruce for Gio straight up and I’d be equally as happy.

3 years 9 months ago

The Yankees are never going to trade Montero AND one of those young pitchers for Gio Gonzalez. If they packaged those players, they can do better than Gio. 

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

I don’t see what the big deal with Yonder Alonso is… as far as I’m concerned he’s a AAAA guy; in 1340 AB’s in the minors, he’s only hit 36 dingers…

He’s not that good.

MaineSox
3 years 9 months ago

Yonder’s career has been really similar to Youkilis’ to this point actually.  Beane absolutely loves those guys.

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

I do not think Gio Gonzalez is worth Yonder; there would have to be a lot more coming back from the Reds side if the A’s were to make a deal.

The Reds are over hyping and over valuing him.

As a Jays fan, I compare him to Travis Snider; who’s younger, has had more plate appearances in the minors, and posted a higher OPS. 

What the Reds are doing is basically setting the market value for a guy like Snider, who could end up being more valuable.

If the Reds think Andrew Bailey isn’t enough for Alonso, then what could the Jays get for Snider…

MiLB Stats:

Alonso 24 (4 seasons): 313 GP, 1340 AB, 345 H, 36 HR, 179 RBI, .293 BA, .370 OBP, .466 SLG, .837 OPS

Snider 23 (6 seasons): 439 GP, 1887 AB, 508 H, 73 HR, 325 RBI, .306 BA, .379 OBP, .522 SLG, .901 OPS

Discuss!!

YanksFanSince78
3 years 9 months ago

Snider has proven that he has struggled at the major league level and Alonzon (given it’s a small sample size) has had a great showing thus far?

OBVIOUSLY, Alonzo has much to prove but right now the Reds are selling high. It’s what Snider HAS proven (that he’s been overmatched) vs what Alonzo has yet to prove and right now Alonzo has more trade value.

johnsmith4
3 years 9 months ago

Besides, Blue Jays are usually the number one buyer when a player like Snider is placed on the trade market.

Lucas Kschischang
3 years 9 months ago

Snider’s battled injuries, and an old-ass manager (Cito) who didn’t give him playing time when it was due…

Alonso… well, you spelled his name with a Z so that shows how much you know 😉 (J/K)

Once they both complete a full season at the MLB level, we’ll see – but as of now, based on numbers alone, Snider appears more valuable.
 

3 years 9 months ago

I couldnt care less how he did in the minors, he raked it in his month he was up here. I say hes worth more than bailey but less then say wade davis. 

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

Kevin Youkilis in the minors: 1421 AB’s,  31 HR
Kevin Youkilis in the majors: 3206 AB’s, 129 HR

Power isn’t always a thing that hitters develop right away. You need plate discipline first.

CalvaryCougar
3 years 9 months ago

yonder for justin masterson?

Rabbitov
3 years 9 months ago

and what?

sportsnut969
3 years 9 months ago

Yonder / Frazier / Bailey for Masterson / Chris Perez 

Rabbitov
3 years 9 months ago

Orioles get him. 

The_Duke_68
3 years 9 months ago

Gonzo and Cahill benefit greatly from Oakland’s ballpark, pass.

Pete
3 years 9 months ago

Getting one free out every time through the order should even things up.

Its pretty dumb to write off 23 and 25 year olds who are already regulars. They are so far from their ceilings its not funny.