Braves, Orioles Discussed Jones, Pitchers

The Braves and Orioles discussed a possible Adam Jones trade recently, but talks didn’t progress far, ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick reports (all Twitter links). The Orioles wanted Jair Jurrjens, Martin Prado and at least two of Brandon Beachy, Mike Minor, Julio Teheran, Arodys Vizcaino and Randall Delgado. The Braves weren’t interested at that price, Crasnick writes.

Conflicting reports about the Braves’ interest level in Jones emerged yesterday, but it appears some preliminary discussions occurred. Orioles GM Dan Duquette joined Jim Bowden and Casey Stern on MLB Network Radio this week and explained that the Orioles are trying to "build around" Jones. "When you have some good players, other teams are interested," he said. "We're not marketing Adam Jones." However, he stopped short of guaranteeing that Jones would stay put.


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193 Comments on "Braves, Orioles Discussed Jones, Pitchers"


NYBravosFan10
3 years 7 months ago

That’s a perfectly understandable request if you’ve said your player isn’t on the market. Usually teams have to be blown away in order to change their mind and that type of offer would definitely do the trick

chico65
3 years 7 months ago

So was it two of that group plus Jurrjens and Prado, or just two of that group?  Can’t blame Duquette for trying.  I’d think just one of those youngsters plus Jurrjens and Prado would be enough for Dan though.

esasc4
3 years 7 months ago

No way! JJ,prado and one of above? crazy, they can have JJ and someone like sprill,chapman,or redman Jones just isnt worth it.

3 years 7 months ago

how is jones not worth it he is a 5 tool player that is proven at the majors 

Brv Rocks
3 years 7 months ago

Jones has “proven” nothing except that he has never been above a 2.9 WAR player with marginal defense.  Jones and Jurrjens are roughly equivalent players.

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

If Adam Jones is a “5 tool player that is proven at the majors” then Jair Jurrjens is Cy Young-caliber…which he’s not.

OhthePossibilities
3 years 7 months ago

I think the problem with Braves’ fans considering the value of JJ and Prado is they don’t take into account the very real injury concerns that come with both players.  Sure, when they’re healthy they’ve proven that they are each about the same caliber of player as Jones or possibly better (depending on the year), but neither has the track record health wise that Jones does and JJ’s peripherals are a bit scary.  That said, Jones’ OBP can be off-putting as well.

I think 2 of those pitching prospects plus JJ would get the deal done for the O’s.

3 years 7 months ago

He is nowhere near worth that haul

OhthePossibilities
3 years 7 months ago

Thanks for supplying a good argument.

Nixa37
3 years 7 months ago

Jones isn’t even worth one of those prospects plus JJ.  Personally I wouldn’t trade one them straight up for Jones, but I could see the reasoning for doing so.  

3 years 7 months ago

well jones has hit 26 homeruns he is a gold glover he has consistantly in the 270-280 mark has a good risp  has speed and a pretty good arm 

3 years 7 months ago

derek jeter is also a gold glover. 
brett gardner is not.

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

Almost the exact same was said for Nate McClouth – 26 HR (’08 in AS year), Gold Glove (’08) – hitting around .265 with some speed — and you see how he turned out in Atlanta. 

What’s my point? Not everyone turns out to be the superstar based on the stats you’re indicating. Gold gloves are NOT the mark of a good defender, while home runs aren’t the mark of a good hitter. And as for Adam Jones’ All-Star…remember every team, including bad teams, has to be represented in the All-Star Game. One team’s All-Star is a better team’s #7-hitter.

Nixa37
3 years 7 months ago

And Jurrjens has 16th best ERA in baseball since 2008 among pitchers with at least 500 IP.  One of these things is far more impressive than the other.

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

Sorry, that’s not worth it with all the interest in both. We held out giving up 1, possibly 2 of our coveted pitching prospects for Hunter Pence who is a more complete player than Adam Jones, so why would be give in now and trade 2 from our starting lineup for 1 guy that has 2 years left before FA? 

I’d only consider that trade if we’re talking about Justin Upton. 

Rabbitov
3 years 7 months ago

Voice of reason.  You should be the Braves fan representative. 

Michael Gardiner
3 years 7 months ago

It is when Prado is better than Jones in WAR. Jones is an average AT BEST offensive player. There is no way he is worth 2 decent guys with a lot of ML experience as well as 2 of their 5 prized prospects all of whom have pitched in the majors as well.

Quacktastic_Duck
3 years 7 months ago

Wow… talk about some unrealistic demands. Frank Wren and the group must have had a pretty good laugh about that. No wonder the talks stopped quickly.

Jeff
3 years 7 months ago

The only group of folks who overvalue their players more then Braves fans are Orioles general managers.  ^_^

Rangersfan32
3 years 7 months ago

Yankee fans have to be pretty close.

Phillip_Cannon
3 years 7 months ago

JLAW is such a lamer. The Braves should have at least countered. “how about jurrjens, prado, and three of the above!”

3 years 7 months ago

Give them Minor, Redmond, Hicks and JJ Hover and Adam Milligan for A Jones. thats wht they get. Nothing more than that. take it or leave

bobskube
3 years 7 months ago

Pretty easy “leave it” I think.

Not saying it isn’t a fair offer, just that the Os would probably decline.

Brv Rocks
3 years 7 months ago

I wouldn’t give up Mike Minor for him.  I would not give up any of the young pitchers for him….he isn’t worth it. 

Adam Jones and Nick Markakis are two of the most overrated players in baseball.

switchhitingjesus
3 years 7 months ago

How is Markakis overrated? No one ever talks about him.

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

He meant to describe Markakis as overpaid (will be paid $59.5M through 2015). If it weren’t for his salary, I’d love for him to be a Brave – he’s from Woodstock, GA.

3 years 7 months ago

Markakis is why you don’t make long term signings after a player has a massive surge in BABIP, like he did in his 2008 season.

vtadave
3 years 7 months ago

He’s still hitting in the .280s-.290s range. I’m more concerned with the drop in ISO than BABIP.

3 years 7 months ago

markakis is probably the most underated in baseball he perenially has 180+ hits he is a gold glover and probably one of the best outfeild arms iin the game

Rabbitov
3 years 7 months ago

You may be one of the most underrated Orioles haters in posting. 

esasc4
3 years 7 months ago

maybe viscaino, sprill, or chapman, but not 2 of the above. or minor and chapman.

3 years 7 months ago

This sounds more likely than the garbage yesterday of Prado and Jurrjens being turned down.  The Braves will enjoy life without Adam Jones better than life with him minus a kings ransom. 

Ron Loreski
3 years 7 months ago

Please not Mike Minor. Putting him in the AL East will kill his fantasy value =(

TheHotCorner
3 years 7 months ago

I like adam jones but unless he starts finding a way to get on base more I think that price is too high.  A guy with a career .319 OBP is nothing special. 

Suh Girls One Cup
3 years 7 months ago

Laughably high.

3 years 7 months ago

This trade between the Braves and Orioles is ridiculous.
Who’s going to be our centerfielder if we trade Jones to the Braves?
It could be Cespedes, but he is a really big question mark, if indeed the Orioles sign him. One major question is can Jim Presley fix that long swing of his by the end of “Spring Training”. Lastly, if I have said it once I have said many times! The Orioles should do a trade with the Marlins. Sign Oswalt and Kuroda and roll the dice that way. Otherwise, we all are wasting our time!

PS Who is the one fanning the flames on this rumor?

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

The Baltimore Sun is the one fanning the flames. Reporting bogus rumors. What else do they have to report on besides Ripken?

3 years 7 months ago

Nah, I don’t think it’s the Sun. One of the writers gave him the MVO Award before one of the final games of the season. Plus, what’s wrong with talking about Ripken, it’s far wrong, it’s far from wrong!
They could also talk about Brooks Robinson as well and that’s far from wrong as well!

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

Nothing wrong with talking about Ripken. I love the guy and I’m not an O’s fan. I’m just illustrating how little there is for The Sun to be reporting on because of the current state of their franchise.

3 years 7 months ago

who cares about cf! you guys would’ve gotten prado(a lifetime better hitter than jones alone), and 3 major league ready starters. orioles trying to ROB the braves

chaifetz10
3 years 7 months ago

Well they’re not going to just hand him over for Brooks Conrad and a PTBNL either…the whole point of trades is to get as much value as you possibly can.  

El_Bobo
3 years 7 months ago

That’s a ridiculous amount of value for someone who hasn’t gotten past a 3 WAR

OrangeCards
3 years 7 months ago

Prado and Jones play different positions. It matters.

ballajim
3 years 7 months ago

never hurts too ask. looks like best for both sides to move on. if braves were not going to give up two of that bunch for pence they are not going to do it for jones

Clay Chason
3 years 7 months ago

AGREED. Move on to actually improving the team maybe?

3 years 7 months ago

If I were Wren, I would have considered a package of Prado and Delgado. If they wanted one other piece, maybe Hoover or Gilmartin.

Brv Rocks
3 years 7 months ago

Jurrjens alone would be equal value for Adam Jones.  Prado is a better hitter and there is no way you give up a top 50 prospect like Delgado for a marginal player like Jones.

Lunchbox45
3 years 7 months ago

but why would the orioles want jurrjens especially when they are trading one of their best players? 

Brv Rocks
3 years 7 months ago

I never said that the Orioles wanted Jurrjens.  I was merely pointing out that trade value wise that Jurrjens and Jones are equivalent players.  Asking for Jurrjens, Prado, and two of the top young prospects in baseball was ridiculous.

Casor_Greener
3 years 7 months ago

Do you really think GMs look at WAR to determine who is the better player?  Jones appears to be trending up, while Jurrgens is falling apart (health wise) lot’s of things determine a players’ value besides WAR.

If that was the case anybody could use fangraphs to be a GM

Nixa37
3 years 7 months ago

Jurrjens is falling apart?  Because he has had knee issues?

nictonjr
3 years 7 months ago

Hard to pitch on one leg…

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

Jurrjens had surgery on his non-pitching knee and he is 100% now and has been clocked recently in the mid-90’s.

I’d rather have his knee issue than arm/shoulder problems with/without TJ surgery.

nictonjr
3 years 7 months ago

If 14 thinks Jurrjens=Jones, and Wren want a ‘Greinke deal’ for Jurrjens, the Orioles should ask for more than a ‘Greinke deal’ for Jones.  I don’t see anything out of line with Baltimore’s asking price for a player they don’t want to trade…

nm344
3 years 7 months ago

Get real, Jurrjens doesn’t offer any value to the Orioles.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

A starting pitcher with a long injury history and declining stuff going to the AL East, who by the way is a Scott Boras client and is becoming very expenseive (the reason he’s being shopped) is = to a 5 tool Centerfielder under control until 2014?

(edit)

Nixa37
3 years 7 months ago

Jones has the same amount of years of team control (through 2013, not 2014) and projects to earn as much or more through arbitration.

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

Absolutely ridiculous to think about trading our 2011 1st rd pitcher (Gilmartin) as a throw-in. They’d be getting 3 premium players including 1 former AS. For Adam Jones, what a scrub.

OhthePossibilities
3 years 7 months ago

You can’t use the AllStar appearance to your advantage and then call Adam Jones a scrub.  He was an AllStar too.  Your argument is illogical.

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

Sorry, I have explained my reasoning why Jones is overrated in other posts and don’t want to have to fully explain myself in posts where it’s irrelevant. I was replying in regards to including Gilmartin in a trade. I can use the AS title if the trade the original poster was proposing included 2 AS (Prado/JJ) and possibly a premium prospect (like a 1st rd selection) for 1 AS (Adam Jones). Doesn’t make sense…even if he exactly fit our need, which he doesn’t. 

I’ve said it before…Adam Jones’ numbers, gold glove, and All-Star title make him quite comparable to Nate McClouth before he came to the Braves.

Jeff
3 years 7 months ago

That’s still an overpay.

I would rather have Prado on my club then Adam Jones.  Prado is a better baseball player.  I’d bench Adam Jones if I had Prado.

nm344
3 years 7 months ago

Prado is not that good

Jeff
3 years 7 months ago

He had a bad 2011, with the second half largely due to a staph infection.  He’s more likely to approach 2010 numbers then 2011, though 2010 might be a career year.

For a LFer, he’s decent, but we’ll need a 3B soon, he’ll be really good there.

Brv Rocks
3 years 7 months ago

Jones is worse.

3 years 7 months ago

Nothing against Adam Jones who is a good player but he is nothing special.He is a Mike Cameron clone without the high OBP

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

Cameron had better defense.

ballajim
3 years 7 months ago

id rather give up minor than delgado

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

Completely agree. Minor’s 1st rd draft pick status alone can get us more for him than Delgado, while the scouting reports on Delgado are much better. Gilmartin can be our lone southpaw in future rotations.

CowboyJames
3 years 7 months ago

Gotta keep minor. He’s your only left handed starter

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

2011 1st rd pick LHP Sean Gilmartin, whom they’re very high on, is whizzing through development leagues on much of the same track Minor was on when he appeared a year after being drafted out of Vandy with a 1st rd selection. From what I read, we’re at a point where if Minor doesn’t pull away from his fellow pitching prospects, we can use him as trade bait and when/if we do need a LHP in the future rotations, we have Gilmartin.

Brv Rocks
3 years 7 months ago

LOL!!!  The Orioles are out of the minds to think the Braves would trade TWO of Minor, Teheran, Beachy, Vizcaino and Delgado PLUS Jurrjens and Prado for Adam Stinkin’ Jones.  Who do they think he is…..Justin Upton???  The guy is a marginal centerfielder who has moderate power but strikes out waaaaaay too much.  He has never even had a 3.0 WAR season. 

I like Frank Wren but why was he interested in Jones to begin with?  He has reverse splits, meaning he hits right handed pitchers better than lefties.  The Braves need a right handed hitter who hits like a right handed hitter.  He also has a terrible OBP and his power would likely decrease in a move from Camden Yard to Turner Field.  Martin Prado is a better overall hitter than Adam Jones. 

Blech….glad this trade got shot down.

0bsessions
3 years 7 months ago

Where does it say they wanted that in addition to Jurrjens and Prado?

Sounds more to me like they just wanted Minor Leaguers more than guys who would only be on the team for two years at best, which is exactly what I was saying yesterday.

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

MLB’s Mark Bowman reported that BAL asked about Jones for Prado, JJ, and “2 premium prospects” meaning the 2 pitchers listed. It’s not listed in this article, but JJ/Prado would be going, if Bowman’s report is true.

0bsessions
3 years 7 months ago

Okay, well, that would be insane then.

not_brooks
3 years 7 months ago

This is just like everyone freaking out about the Gio Gonzalez rumors…

It’s beyond obvious that the Orioles don’t want to trade Jones. They never said he was on the market, and Duquette has said multiple times that Jones is one of the players he wants to build around.

So, if they don’t actually want to trade him, why wouldn’t they ask for a king’s ransom?

Is this really that difficult to understand?

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

if they were offered one of minor, beachy, teheran, or delgado for jones, they should have taken it

not_brooks
3 years 7 months ago

Indeed.

Fifty_Five
3 years 7 months ago

The point is, they SHOULD want to trade him though. You could cut that return in half and it would still be an overpay. Meant to go to your first one

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

This isn’t difficult for me to understand. So Jones is available. If you’re taking calls from GMs on a player, they’re available. 

Adam Jones isn’t a Dan Duquette acquisition and with only 2 years until FA, I’ll believe that he’s a part of their rebuilding when I see an Adam Jones extension or someone better than Jeremy Guthrie as their Opening Day starter — how pathetic.

not_brooks
3 years 7 months ago

I’m not saying that it makes sense.

I would love to see Jones traded for a high upside prospect or two. But it doesn’t seem like Duquette is going to make that trade.

Actually, I have no idea what Duquette is doing. I like the Wada signing and I love the expanded international presence, but I’d really love to know if he thinks the Orioles will be competitive at any point over the next three years. And if he does, I’d love to know how he’s going to make that happen.

And if he doesn’t believe that the O’s will be competitive at any point over the next three years, now is the time to trade Jones, J.J. Hardy, Jeremy Guthrie, Mary Reynolds and Nick Markakis (if you can get someone to take that albatross contract. Too bad Tony Reagins was fired…).

End rant.

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

Well, if they’re taking fliers on Fielder, then they think they’ll be players sometime soon…or they just need some new coffee table material in the front office.

3 years 7 months ago

It doesn’t say plus prado and jj.  I think it was just two from that list.

Brv Rocks
3 years 7 months ago

Nope, it was Prado, JJ AND two from that list. 

Michael Gardiner
3 years 7 months ago

“The Orioles wanted Jair Jurrjens, Martin Prado and at least two of Brandon Beachy, Mike Minor, Julio Teheran, Arodys Vizcaino and Randall Delgado.”

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

This all solidifies that Jones means much more to BAL than he would with anyone else. If nothing else, that just shows you the mediocrity they’re playing with…they’re not a good match for a trade and they won’t be. Let’s move on.

Thomas W
3 years 7 months ago

It might just be possible that you and the other Braves fans like Prado a bit more than Wren does

Triple Hawpes Brewed
3 years 7 months ago

2 off of that list? GO FISH!

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

This runs parallel to what MLB’s Mark Bowman wrote about the trade, that ATL never offered BAL JJ/Prado for Jones, but that BAL came back and asked if ATL would trade JJ/Prado and from what his source referred to as “2 other premium guys”…possibly referring to our coveted pitching prospects.

Considering we wouldn’t give those 2 prospects up for Hunter Pence, why would we do that for Adam Jones? We didn’t give up any to get 1.5 years of service from Bourn.

However, it was completely reasonable for Duquette to inquire. But building around Adam Jones? 

Matt Talbert
3 years 7 months ago

Might not be mad at a Jones for Jurrjens straight up swap.

3 years 7 months ago

Can’t imagine the orioles would that.  Jair has an injury history.  Also the orioles are trying to build that is why they are asking for prospects not big league guys with only a few years away from free agency.

Rangersfan32
3 years 7 months ago

If the Orioles were serious about building they’d ask for a trade of an overrated Jones for a package led with one of the Braves top pitching prospects. that’d be much closer to reality.

setupunchtag
3 years 7 months ago

As someone who doesn’t have a horse in this race, I was actually thinking the same thing. Jones isn’t worth 2 on the list above. The O’s are smart for asking, though, and the Braves are smart for saying ‘no’.

Brv Rocks
3 years 7 months ago

That is actually a fair trade.  Both have the same amount of MLB service time, both had identical WAR ratings last season, and both even made the same amount of money through arbitration. 

If the Orioles were being reasonable there could have been a three way trade.  Jurrjens to a team for prospects, the prospects to the Orioles and Jones to the Braves.

Even at that I’m glad there was no trade.  Jones is what the Braves DON’T need….Jeff Francoeur part II.

Rabbitov
3 years 7 months ago

You know I like Braves fans and am friends with a lot of them, but comments like this: 
“Jones is what the Braves DON’T need….Jeff Francoeur part II.”Give all of you a bad name. 

CowboyJames
3 years 7 months ago

How is that?

smt1
3 years 7 months ago

Whatever Jones is to the Orioles, he’s far less valuable to the Braves. He wouldn’t play CF in Atlanta for at least another year, he’d play LF, and as a LF, he’s not as valuable anyways. Besides, Prado can play LF and is better offensively, and has similar service time.

Bob Miller
3 years 7 months ago

The O’s have already turned down the offer of Jurrjens, Prado, and a prospect for Jones. Jones is gonna be a star, and Jurrjens and Prado can’t stay healthy. For all of these Braves fans that overvalue their own players… sorry. It’s the truth.

If the Braves want Jones, it will take Jurrjens, Prado, and one of those “stud” pitching prospects. They are called prospects for a reason, because they haven’t done anything yet. Heck.. Teheran has been lit up every time he called up.

It’s just the truth.

commenter3346
3 years 7 months ago

They may be overvaluing Jurrjens & Prado, but your overvaluing Jones. Jones may have some power, but he strikes out way too much & he has a career .319 OBP. He’ll also be a free agent in 2 years. 

Bob Miller
3 years 7 months ago

You’re right about his K’s.

The point of these discussions are that the Orioles are not marketing Jones. They have no intentions of trading him. The Braves are trying to get rid of Jurrjens and Prado. So the Braves are gonna have to come strong with their offer. There’s nothing wrong with the O’s asking for the moon 1st and then coming down a little. That’s how negotiating goes.

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

ATL isn’t trying to “get rid” of JJ and Prado. They’re available in the right deal. JJ is coming off an All-Star season and has 2 years remaining before free agency and is affordable. Prado can play multiple positions at an All-Star level and is affordable. If we can’t upgrade by replacing them, then we’re not going to make a deal. It’s not like either are going to FA in 2013…we just want a power upgrade and/or OF assurances if CF Bourn leaves via free agency in 2012. Why is that so difficult to understand? 

OhthePossibilities
3 years 7 months ago

If they aren’t trying to get rid of them, they should be.

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

At the right price…yes. They still are a crucial part of our current team. Once Gio Gonzalez is traded and with John Danks signing an extension, who is the best SP available? Edwin Jackson, Huroki Kuroda, Roy Oswalt on a 1-year deal? Would teams rather trade prospects for Jurrjens, who is affordable for the next 2 years, or overpay an inconsistent SP like Edwin Jackson? Jackson will never be better than a 3-4 starter on most every team (BAL, he might be a #1 starter…), but JJ’s first half in 2011 shows he can be a top-tier pitcher. ATL isn’t asking for a Mat Latos-return, but we’re not going to include in a package deal – with starting pitching being a premium right now – for someone like Adam Jones. Why not hold onto Jurrjens, hope that he has a 2012 first half like he did in 2011, build his stock up, then trade him when his stock is highest at the All-Star break? What would a contending team trade for a possible 15-game winner with an ERA around 3.00?

Jeremy Trammel
3 years 7 months ago

no way no how, that “offer ” of prado and jj and a prospect never happened so get off your high horse and realize he is not worth the ransom sorry bub.

Bob Miller
3 years 7 months ago

The offer did happen Jeremy. It’s on the Baltimore Sun website. I would post a link, but you can’t post links here. Sorry bub.

ballajim
3 years 7 months ago

braves mlb site states offer did not happen. the two teams just dont match up. Orioles need prospects and braves can get better players than adam jones for their A prospects. im a braves fan and id rather keep jurrjens and prado than have adam jones. i would do minor OR vizc and a b prospect for him, however.

danumd87
3 years 7 months ago

Its quite obvious you’re a Braves fan…silly post.

ballajim
3 years 7 months ago

check any post on here and you will see im a braves fan. also read the posts on here from all the people who are not fans of either and see which angle they view this. Braves had an opportunity to get Pence for two of these pitchers and turned that down. I think you would be looking for a while to find someone who would say jones>pence.

So Im obviously a braves fan..that does not blur the reality that jones is a good player. Not a great one worth 2 blue chip prospects plus 2 all stars. or even worth 2 blue chip prospects alone…back up your comment rather than name calling

ballajim
3 years 7 months ago

Also you miss the following in my post, “Im a braves fan…”

…silly post

smt1
3 years 7 months ago

according to Mark Bowman:
The Braves expressed interest in Adam Jones.  But they did not offer Martin Prado and Jair Jurrjens to the Orioles in exchange for the outfielder.A source with knowledge of the Orioles negotiations disputed a Baltimore Sun report that indicated the Braves were rejected when they offered Prado, Jurrjens and a pitching prospect for Jones.The source said the Braves were told Jones was unavailable when they asked about him a couple weeks ago.  The Orioles later called the Braves to see if they would trade Prado, Jurrjens and two other “premium guys” in exchange for Jones.The Braves said they were not interested and the two clubs have not had any recent discussions about these players.

GreenCustom24
3 years 7 months ago

Seriously. Jones isn’t anything special at all. I’d rather keep Prado in Left if Jones were the main piece of that trade…

Fifty_Five
3 years 7 months ago

There is no reason to believe Jones is or will be a star

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

I like how you completely dismiss Prado and Jurrjens in comparison to Jones. Jones could be a great player very soon, but so far, Prado is the better all-around player, with just as many AS appearances as your “star”. I know BAL hates pitching, but Jurrjens is actually a quality pitcher with 2 years left before he’s a FA — much like Jones.

The reason we don’t want to give up a pitching prospect isn’t because they’re untouchable, it’s because the players on the table (JJ, Prado) are already more than a fair trade that BAL can’t recognize because they wouldn’t benefit them as much as Jones would.

We will trade a stud pitching prospect in the right trade – but with guys with 4 years of control and proven MLB success like A’s Gio Gonzalez, that’s not going to happen very soon.

** And please don’t try and downplay Teheran. I’m sorry Jeremy Guthrie is your opening day starter (again), but bitterness won’t make our pitchers any less good.

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

Adam Jones is a glorified Nate McClouth when we (ATL) acquired him. He has all those nice mantle pieces (gold glove, All-Star) that mask his ability, while illustrating how important he is to his bad team, such as the O’s. 

Please consider that Prado changed positions to LF while also battling to 2 freak injuries that lingered the whole season. It’s really tough to look at his career numbers considering his 1st full season wasn’t until ’08 when he won the 2B job over Kelly Johnson. Prado normally doesn’t miss much time.

Jones is gonna be a star? What makes you say that? Prado and JJ both have higher WARs than Jones, meaning our 2 players are more important to us than Jones is to the O’s. Jones hitting stats aren’t great, striking out a lot for someone you’re asking so much for. Compare his stats to Justin Upton and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

** And sorry if you aren’t impressed with Teheran. He’s started all of 3 games and appeared in 2 more. How could you be impressed with that? Take a look at his minor league stats. And if we doesn’t pan out to be the Pedro Martinez many have compared him to, then we have another 4-5 waiting. We’re not lucky at developing players. He’s no Zach Britton or Chris Tillman, I can tell you that.

niched
3 years 7 months ago

I’m an O’s fan and I agree with a lot of the Braves fans in that Jones is a bit overrated.  But the Braves generally seem to be stingy in trades.  You have to give value to get value.  I can understand the Braves not wanting to give up two top young pitchers for Jones, but not even one of them?  Most of Jones’ value is not what he’s done thus far, but still it’s about his potential since he’s only 25.  The Braves always seem to be one or two players away from competing for the NL East title, and their reluctance to deal top young pitching could be could be a reason why.  If you don’t want Jones, fine, but trade some of that pitching for some great hitter. Justin Upton was available last offseason, but you ain’t gonna get him now.  The Braves are in it, but they could certainly get better.  Go trade for some big bat because though Freddie Freeman and Jason Heyward are good, you never know if they may not end up any better than, say, Mark Reynolds and Adam Jones.

ballajim
3 years 7 months ago

or Adam Jones could end up being “Mark Reynolds” or “Adam Jones”

niched
3 years 7 months ago

Or Adam Jones may merely be a Jason Heyward and Reynolds only a Freddie Freeman… Anyway, I think you missed the point of my post, which is about the Braves and trading.

ballajim
3 years 7 months ago

i read that at the start of your post you defend orioles for hanging on to Jones because of his potential..then you justify the braves trading for Jones or another big bat because the braves are relying too much on potential.

niched
3 years 7 months ago

I wasn’t defending the Orioles for holding on to Jones. I think they should trade him. I was just saying that his value, whether in a trade or if they keep him, is still more based on his potential than what he’s done so far. The second part of what you wrote, yes, is basically what I was arguing.

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

While I appreciate your candor, coming from a Braves fan, we are stingy in trades, but who isn’t? I understand that an ideal trade should be good for both sides, but that rarely happens for many reasons. I also have great faith in the Braves player development program – one of the best in MLB, if you ask me – and know that someone coming through our minor league program stands a better chance at succeeding at the major league level than in, say, the Kansas City Royals farm system. 

Having said that, please also understand that we’d only be getting 2 years of service from Adam Jones before he hits free agency. Yes, while we would be paying for his potential, we’re also with the risk that he won’t re-sign with ATL and wants his big pay day (i.e. Jayson Werth). Take ATL’s trade as an example: we traded a CF prospect with some MLB experience (Jordan Schafer) and 3 mid-level pitching prospects for 1.5 seasons of Michael Bourn before he hits FA. Bourn is a better player defensively than Jones and because Bourn’s is one of the best basestealers in MLB, you could argue he’s more important offensively than Jones.

We totally understand you have to give up talent to get talent. We have an All-Star, Javier Vazquez to NYY for Melky and prospects. We gave up prospect Adam Wainwright and Jason Marquis for a 1-year rental of JD Drew. We gave up Neftali Feliz, Elvis Andrus, Matt Harrison, Jared Saltalamacchia (and Beau Jones) for a year’s rental of Mark Teixeira. So we get that you have to give up good players to get good players. But from what the O’s are asking for for Jones is even more than the insane amount of talent we gave up for Tex if you consider Prado/JJ a part of the trade, and 1-2 top pitching prospects. How can anyone justify that, especially if Adam Jones walks, and we don’t re-sign Michael Bourn thinking that Jones will be our CF replacement – though he has sub-par CF defense at best? That’s too great a risk and too high a price to pay for someone’s potential. If we want to overpay for someone’s potential, we’d have paid TB the bounty they want for BJ Upton.

And Justin Upton was about as available as Adam Jones is this year – he’s not unless you’re willing to overpay for him. Upton hasn’t signed an extension, so he could be available still if a team is willing to overpay for him.

niched
3 years 7 months ago

Great post. I did speak too soon when I said the Braves were always stingy about trades. Frankly, I wasn’t thinking of the rental trades for Teixeira and Drew in what I wrote. I was thinking more in terms of trading for top players who are younger.

I’m not suggesting what the Orioles are asking for Jones is realistic. Not even close. I’m just saying, considering how bad the O’s are, trading him for Jurgens and Prado don’t help the O’s enough long term. If they trade Jones they should trade him for 4 or 5 guys who are strong upside but barely any Major League experince. The package the Nationals sent to Oakland for Gio Gonzalez would be a better fit for the O’s, though the O’s wouldn’t get quite that return for Jones. Gonzalez is more valuable to a team than Jones (depending on the team’s needs), but Gonzalez, like Jones, is flawed. So, I bet Jones could get a strong package of young players, though short of what the A’s got for Cahill or Gonzalez.

Justin Upton is just an example. I strongly implied in my post that he wasn’t available this year, though he was certainly available last year if a team was willing to give up bank for him.

The Braves have a great organization, no doubt.  Trust me, O’s fans envy the Braves organization, especially in that they remind us of how the O’s were run during their glory years in the 60s through the 80s.  But I think all teams in general these days overvalue their prospects to some degree, not in a rental situation like with Teixeira (in these situations it’s usually the rental who is overvalued), but in a situation where a team could trade multiple prospects for a young star.  Many people are criticizing the Reds for giving up so much to get Mat Latos, but I think it’s a good trade for the Reds because Latos is potentially a true ace. The Braves would be making a bad trade if they traded Jurgens, Prado and two top pitching prospects for Adam Jones. But they wouldn’t be making a bad trade if they gave up that much and more for a young, proven player (Upton is just an example) or a more experience player they could sign to a long term contract.  

That said, I think one of the young prospects for Jones and either Jurgens or Prado is fair.  Prado is a Brian Roberts type.  Jones has power and he plays a key defensive position fairly well.  Plus Jones has shown improvement in every part of his game, though except OBP.  There’s still a lot of potential in Jones.  That said, I wouldn’t blame either the Braves or the O’s if they can’t match up on him.

Michael Gardiner
3 years 7 months ago

Jurrjens and Pardo should be more than enough. Prado has outperformed Jones. Thus Prado>Jones. Throwing in JJ after that they O’s are already making out well. I know people will say JJ outperforms his periphs but he is not a strikeout guy. He wants people to put the ball in play against him and that will push his FIP and stuff up higher.

niched
3 years 7 months ago

Jones plays centerfield, a key defensive position, well (though not great), and he has growing power, while still only 25.  True, his OBP last year was only .319, but that’s still better than Dan Uggla’s or Nelson Cruz’s and it’s basically the same as Mitch Moreland’s.   I agree Prado has been than Jones offensively thus far.  So, even considering he was out much of last year, why are the Braves listening to offers for him?  Something doesn’t seem right with the Braves’ handling of Prado.  Other teams smell that the Braves may consider him damaged goods somewhat.  If the Braves thought so highly of him at they used to, I can’t see why they would consider moving him while his value is low.  

bravesdude
3 years 7 months ago

Uggla’s career OBP is .343 compared to Jones .319 . Morelands is .331 . Cruz’s is .330 .

Jones’ career OBP is .319 and has been dropping each year the last 3 years .

BaseballLogic_Braves
3 years 7 months ago

Adam Jones is a good player, but he really hasn’t done anything superstar quality. He’s a flashy defender, and a pretty decent hitter, I just don’t understand why the Orioles want to keep him so bad.

not_brooks
3 years 7 months ago

It’s not that they want to keep him “so bad”.

It’s that the Orioles and Braves don’t match up.

If the O’s are going to trade Jones, they need to trade him for prospects. And it doesn’t seem like the O’s are interested in the prospects that the Braves would be willing to give up. 

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

…why?! the braves have some of the best pitching prospects in baseball and that’s exactly what the orioles need. i would have asked for one of the pitchers named plus another mid-level and laughed all the way to the bank

2 years of adam jones? one of which would be in LF? you’d be robbing the braves

not_brooks
3 years 7 months ago

“you’d be robbing the braves”

Which is probably why the Braves aren’t willing to give up any players that the Orioles are interested in.

BaseballLogic_Braves
3 years 7 months ago

Exactly. They wouldn’t be willing to give up GOOD prospects for Adam Jones because he just isn’t worth it. I’m not even sure if he’s worth JJ AND Prado. But for them to ask for two more prospects on top of that is outrageous. 

nictonjr
3 years 7 months ago

 If he’s ‘just isn’t worth it’ don’t ask the Orioles about him.  Teams called about Jurrjens, Wren asked for a ‘Greinke’ package and Jurrjens is still a Brave.  No one has a problem with Wren asking for way too much for Jurrjens, who is as available as the daily paper, but criticizes Balt for asking for way too much for a guy they have ZERO interest in trading??

BaseballLogic_Braves
3 years 7 months ago

Well he’s certainly better than having no center fielder. But he isn’t super-star like they make him to be. I never said Jurrjens was either.

Lunchbox45
3 years 7 months ago

Not sure why Orioles would want Prado or Jurrjens if they moved one of their better players… stick to bringing in high ceiling prospects.

If they can get one of those good young arms off the braves, do it

3 years 7 months ago

We need a CF’er to replace Jonesy if he’s traded.
That’s why the Braves aren’t a good match!
I don’t care what they give us!

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

what do you need a CF for? what’s going to happen if you don’t have one? are you going to…lose this year?

think long-term. you need good pitching prospects. the braves have them

Jim McGrath
3 years 7 months ago

See the replies more recently—possible trade with the Bravo’s 
if it could be done. You are right the Sox need pitching.   

Jim McGrath
3 years 7 months ago

How about Ellsbury in return for Adam and Reynolds.

3 years 7 months ago

I would do that in a heartbeat, I don’t think anyone is Boston would though

rundmc1981
3 years 7 months ago

Good luck re-signing Ellsbury. Coming off 30-30…he’s going to be looking for $120M+…