Giants Notes: Cain, Lincecum, Payroll, Beltran

The Giants made their roster available to the media today, on the eve of the club's annual FanFest event. Here's latest on the 2010 World Champs…

  • “We’ve talked … and it’s a process,” said Matt Cain to reporters (including Andrew Baggarly of The Mercury News) when asked about an extension. “We’ll see what’s going to happen. We’re definitely here for this year.”
  • The right-hander did stop short of saying he'll give the team a hometown discount. “That’s tough,” he said. “You definitely love being in San Francisco, and we do. We have a year till free agency. That’s something as a player you think about, having that opportunity. It’s hard to say what will happen in these next several months.”
  • “Budget won’t be a factor," said GM Brian Sabean when asked about signing both Cain and Tim Lincecum long-term. "We’ll have enough wherewithal in the budget that we won’t have to pick. Whether that happens, I can’t predict. But we have it in the budget to sign both players.”
  • Sabean also said that increasing payroll to add players in midseason has "always been possible with our ownership group" according to John Shea of The San Francisco Chronicle (on Twitter).
  • The Giants wanted Carlos Beltran back as a left fielder, says Shea (on Twitter). They were willing to give him two years, but not the $26MM the Cardinals gave him.


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33 Comments on "Giants Notes: Cain, Lincecum, Payroll, Beltran"


3 years 6 months ago

first! where’s my cookie?

$3513744
3 years 6 months ago

I ate it while you were busy typing that.

3 years 6 months ago

lolwut

gmenfan
3 years 6 months ago

“I drank your milkshake. I drank it up !”

bonds2425
3 years 6 months ago

That’s good news. They’ll lock them both up long term. I think they’ll lock Cain up for 5 years before the season starts and somewhat of a discount but probably not like his last contract. The guys a stud! They can’t let him go anywhere.

bayareabeast
3 years 6 months ago

“We’ll have enough wherewithal in the budget that we won’t have to pick. Whether that happens, I can’t predict.” Sabean is a poet. LOL

Matthew Young
3 years 6 months ago

Don’t ever believe a thing that Brian Sabean or any member of the Giants front office says. 

letsgogiants
3 years 6 months ago

The Giants better sign both Lincecum and Cain to long term deals. Both are very vital to this club winning and, with the Giants reaching 3 million fans as they sold out nearly all their home games last season, should have a lot of money to play with. Cain will be the priority, of course, this year hopefully before the regular season starts. But by the time Lincecum can become a free agent, so can Zito, clearing up a lot of payroll. As long as Sabean doesn’t make any bad signings that could hamstring this club between now and 2014, a lot of money should be cleared up for Lincecum to sign. Of course, by that time, both Posey and Bumgarner will be arbitration elligible, while Sandoval can become a free agent. So, a lot could happen between now and then.

VivaJackMurphy
3 years 6 months ago

“As long as Sabean doesn’t make any bad signings”

BAHAHA.

Encarnacion's Parrot
3 years 6 months ago

Cool story, Sabean. Question is: would you still have money left to improve the offense? Losing 127-runs from 2010 to 2011 isn’t very encouraging.

3 years 6 months ago

Don’t forget to mention the defensive improvement; Crawford full-time & Sheirholtz healthy & Posey healthy saves TONS of runs

SFrush90
3 years 6 months ago

Does anyone else notice that what Sabean said kind of contradicts itself? He says increasing payroll isn’t a problem with the ownership group, but then they didn’t want to pay Beltran for only two years for a short stay.

dlineback
3 years 6 months ago

They generally have a set projected payroll for a certain year. And then as time goes on and they have an idea of how the season progresses in terms of funds and team performance, the ownership group can choose to be flexible with adding another player. Sounds contradictory, but it makes sense.

SFrush90
3 years 6 months ago

Ya I totally understand that and how finances are able to fluctuate throughout the season, but it’s funny also when he basically says money isn’t a problem and then they go and acquire guys like Garko and Ledee. 

$7562574
3 years 6 months ago

it’s just because beltran, no matter how good he may be in his position, is not in the same league as lincecum and cain.

melonis_rex
3 years 6 months ago

Yeah, but the Giants are only guaranteed Cain for one more year and Lincecum for two. 

Now is when you go all in for another playoff berth or two because you don’t know how the extension situations are going to play out. Especially when its only a two year commitment and doesn’t cost prospects. 

And Sabean can give money to the likes of Aubrey Huff and a host of veteran relievers. 

3 years 6 months ago

Agree, but what no one is talking about is the Huff/Belt combo who will be splitting time at 1B & LF with Melky. I think Sabean figured he already had too many guaranteed contracts in-house to invest into another LF.  Even if Beltran is the best hitter of that group, they already have too many guys in-house

Grab some pine, meat.
3 years 6 months ago

I would rather have Beltran than Huff for every reason, and have belt/pill platoon at first.

3 years 6 months ago

Agreed.

Grab some pine, meat.
3 years 6 months ago

I just disregard everything Sabean says. Example: Thanks for trading Wheeler to get Beltran… I was ok with it because you SAID you’d secure him for more years when he hit FA. How did that work out agian?

He has copious amounts of egg on his face at all time. 

3 years 6 months ago

Why do people hate Sabean so much?  His tenure as GM has been amazing including 1 WS title & 2 WS trips.  Every GM makes bad signings but few have had the success he has had

Dan Wohl
3 years 6 months ago

I’ll try to sum it up as best I can…he’s proven to be utterly incompetent at putting together an offense, he clearly operates with an outdated line of thinking re: statistics, he loads up on mediocre old veterans all the time at the expense of prospects, and the Giants have made the playoffs one time in the past eight seasons.

3 years 6 months ago

I completely disagree- your assessment of him is horribly outdated & seems straight from the book Moneyball.  I agree w/ “Grab some pine” comments below; yours no, yours doesn’t make sense

1) “utterly incompetent at offense” & “loads up on old veterans at expense of prospects” — if you look at the current Giants roster, you would not say that. Posey, Pablo, Crawford, Belt, Sheirholtz are all starting and home-grown. What upper level prospects are being blocked by 2B Freddie Sanchez or CF Pagan? Gary Brown & Panic aren’t ready yet.  Posey & Pablo are All-Stars, Belt hopefully will be, Nate & Crawford should be gold glovers (Nate should have been last year).  Would you like to change your assessment of prospects being blocked??

2) “outdated way of thinking” — how?  Our 2010 team was focused on high slugging % & contact.  We never have speed teams.  Do you really think Brian Sabean doesn’t look at OBP%?.  And, AGAIN if you look at the current roster w/ Crawford & Sheirholtz & Freddie, he has a defensive minded lineup.  Defense is what the Red Sox & Athletics & Devil Rays tried to construct as market-inequalities 2 yrs ago.  So Sabean is at the forefront of statistical analysis.

Dan Wohl
3 years 6 months ago

I would not say the team is utterly incompetent on offense? Here’s where the Giants have ranked in the NL in runs scored since 2005:

05: 15th
06: 11th
07: 15th
08: 15th
09: 13th
10: 9th
11: 16th

I absolutely stand by my statement that prospects get blocked by Sabean. Belt is starting? Interesting, you must have watched a different team than I did last year. The one I did, Belt was yo-yoed endlessly and buried on the depth chart for all but the last two weeks behind Aubrey Huff having one of the worst seasons of anyone in MLB. Schierholtz was on the bench for four years before getting a chance to start. There was absolutely no reason for Posey not to start the season as the everyday catcher in ’10…yet Sabean surprised everyone by signing Molina to block him further.

If you think “contact” is the sign of a sabermetric analysis then I’m afraid you don’t know what sabermetrics are. Do I really think Sabean doesn’t look at OBP? Uh, yeah, I do actually, or if he does he definitely doesn’t care about it. Why else would he continually go after hackers of the most extreme variety (Molina, Uribe, Guillen, Orlando Cabrera). Sabean is not at the forefront of statistical analysis because they have a few better-than-average defenders (and that is barely even true when it comes to Freddy Sanchez).

3 years 6 months ago

I want to clarify because it your response seems out of context, hope this clarifies better:

#1 Prospects.  Yes, Sabean blocks a lot of them and has, you are correct
in his history.  My favorite
example of questioning Sabean’s prospect moves is the years he blocked Rich Aurilla.  The Orlando Cabrera trade was awful.  There is no denying
this year it will be a primarily homegrown team – showing how
Sabean has reinvented himself.  He is not
relying on Marquis Grissom/Michael Tucker/Bengie Molina to be thumpers.  At least 50% of the starting lineup (not counting Belt) will be
homegrown. 

There was a reason for Posey to start in the minors in ’10: he had ZERO experience calling games. He never did it in college, thus they stuck him with Steve Decker in AAA.  Look at Timmy’s ERA under Bengie & Eli Whiteside compared to the first couple months under Posey — it was not good because Posey needed to learn.

#2 Sabermetrics.  I never said ‘contact’ was a sabermetric stat (that actually made me laugh, where did I say that??). I said he builds teams on high power & contact, guys like Freddie & Pablo & Posey & Molina so they are station-to-station offense hoping for a big homer THUS high contact, high power, no speed.  Where does it say you have to have high OBP to win?  Is there only 1 type of offense to win?  I will answer for you: No.

Sabermetrics is about market-inequalities not about OBP or SLU or walks.  The new market inequality is Defense. Ask the Red Sox, ask the Devil Rays, ask the Giants, ask Billy Beane in Oakland.  This is something you can look up.  So if Sabermetrics is a way of constructing a team within a rigid economy more than a singular approach to offense, as it is, then you understand how Sabes has reinvented the Giants in a very progressive way with Crawford, Sheirholtz, etc.

Based of advanced stats, Sheirholtz & Pablo should have won Gold Gloves.  Based off watching games, Sheirholtz is a dominant RF in Pac Bell, Posey is a stud & the Giants had their best records when Crawford started because of his range at SS

————

Bottom line, Sabean wins.  He has won with veterans, he has won with homegrown talent, he has taken a monster offense to the WS in 2002 and taken a monster pitching staff to win the WS in 2010.   If his ways do not align with Moneyball of 2002 so be it.  Clearly he has made bad moves but so has EVERY gm.  I can only think of 1 active GM that has taken his franchise to multiple WS and won at least 1 and that is Brian Casman.

Jumbaco
3 years 6 months ago

You definitely sound like a Giant fan.

– Posey has never made an All Star team
– Nate and Crawford will never win GG
– Is Sheirholtz even starting? Isn’t it Huff/Pagan/Melky?

Sabean has been a disaster in the free Agent Market. Rowand, Jose Guillen, Dave Roberts, Tejada, Ray Durham, Ryan Klesko, and he signed Michael Tucker a few days before he was going to be a free agent forfitting us a draft pick.

He got lucky in 2010 that the Vets he brought in clicked at the same time. For proof look at how Ross, Uribe, Renteria, Huff, Torres have done since then. All of them had horrible years. I doubt Sabean is a Genius who predicted all 5 of them would get hot in the last 2 months of the season.

He traded for the vet OCab who had the same offensive stats as Crawford with worse defense. He also played a struggling Huff over Belt while sending him back and forth between the minors.

“Sabean is at the forefront of statistical analysis.”

This couldn’t be more from the truth. Sabean is one of the longest tenured GM in the game. He relies more on his scouting experience that statistical analysis. If he was a stat expert then I guess he just chose to ignore Rowands 20 point BA drop and his 100 point OPS drop away from a Hitters Park and that it would be a great idea to bring him to a Pitchers Park.

3 years 6 months ago

You have an awesome name, very jealous as I want to wake up to that song as an alarm.  Anyways….

——

#1 Sabermetrics is about market-inequalities not about OBP or SLU or
walks.  The new market inequality is Defense. Look at the Red Sox, the
Devil Rays, the Giants, ask Billy Beane in Oakland.  So if Sabermetrics is a way of constructing a
team within a rigid economy more than a singular approach to offense,
as it is, then you understand how Sabes has reinvented the Giants in a
very progressive way with Crawford, Sheirholtz, etc.  According to advanced stats, Pablo & Sheirholtz should have won Gold Gloves. 

You are correct, he relies on scouts heavily which I love, you need that combo.

#2 He did not get lucky in 2010, that is a joke to even think that. There are 162 games, then 3 rounds of playoffs.  That, sir/madam, is not luck

Sabean wins.  He has won with veterans, he has won with
homegrown talent, he has taken a monster offense to the WS in 2002 and
taken a monster pitching staff to win the WS in 2010.   If his ways do
not align with Moneyball of 2002 so be it.  Clearly he has made bad
moves but so has EVERY gm.  I can only think of 1 active GM that has
taken the same franchise to multiple WS and won at least 1 and that is Brian
Cashman.  I fyou can think of another, please correct me.  But it appears there are only 2 active GMs.  Sabes is a winner, and people need to start understanding that.  Funny people do not rag on Theo for signing Dice-K or John Lackey or an awful contract for Carl Crawford.

Grab some pine, meat.
3 years 6 months ago

To be honest, at a glance he seems ok, if not actually good at his job. I mean the world series was brought to SF in 2010 right? The thing is, considering our payroll, we don’t compete at the same level as some of the other larger payroll teams do. Its about waste, also, as some people seem to forget how much money has already been spent. When you look at the team he inherited, there should have been more than 2 WS appearances in his time with the giants. Even if you put the World series appearances aside, hes made some major mistakes in his 15 years as GM. 

Example: Trades and signings

I would wager to say his best trade to date was also his first one. Matt Williams to the Indians for Visciano and Kent (I think 2 other no namers were involved) and even that alienated Matt Williams from becoming a “forever giant” hence him working for AZ.
He also lands a good waiver wire pick up from time to time, but often those are just to block interdivisional opponents.

Now some of his not-as-good signings/trades are as follows:

The aforementioned Wheeler/Belran
Zito for a 7 year $126 million backloaded contract not included in overall cost: Zitos 8th year Player option worth $20 million alone. (this signing alone has killed us when trying for any free agent pick ups since he’s been on the team)
Rowand 4 years for a little more than $48million
Trading Liriano and Nathan for A.J. Pierzynski 

Seriously with the $200 million tied into Rowand and Zito, its amazing he hasnt been fired. It is almost a miracle we won at all, seeing as how we are fighting the current that Sabean set up. It’s like he wanted us to lose by dealing a way good cheap young players and getting old expensive not-as-good players in return. Its just something other teams have come to expect: Need good young talent, but only have expensive older past-its-peak talent? Not a problem, just call up old Brian Sabotage Sabean, he’ll take that dinosaur off your hands for a top prospect in no time.

3 years 6 months ago

You bring up some VERY good points about waste & trades.  I do want to clarify some points & get your further feedback as he has made awful moves with some brilliant moves

1) he inherited an awful team in 1996.  Don’t know if you can say we should have more WS, Mark Leiter was the best pitcher at the time.

2) payroll has just risen over the past 2 yrs to major market status.  We have to be careful defining “waste.” Barry Zito was an ownership signing under Peter Magawon- Sabean didn’t lead that.  You can look that up

Rowand & Armando Benetiz & AJ were awful moves, filthy.  Just like the signing of Michael Tucker, the slow development of Rich Aurilla, the lack of attention to offensive talent for a decade.  I love the Robb Nen trade, Javy Lopez & Ramon Ramirez was a steal, Schmidt was illegal how one-sided that was.

I thought Matt Williams came back for Giants events before we was the 3rd base coach for AZ. His home is down there and he divorced his wife recently, so I think it’s more a family-than-hating-Giants thing

4) Every GM makes awful moves, ours are just compounded because we don’t have the same flexibility as Yanks/Sox (which goes back to #2 above). Theo Epstein signed DiceK, John Lackey & Carl Crawford. Billy Beane — well who knows what is he doing anymore. Cashman gave Carl Pavano ~$40MM!!  These are just a few examples that every GM makes awful moves

I don’t think he makes many “dinosaur” moves anymore, in fact he refused to give up Gary Brown in the Beltran trade. I think Brown would have been worse than Wheeler to give up.  At least the Beltran trade was going for it, something you have to take advantage of when defending champs and close to the playoffs.

$3866193
3 years 6 months ago

I’ve always found it a bit unfair for journalists (or anyone, really) to ask a player if they’d take a hometown discount, especially while they’re still under contract.  It puts the player in an awkward situation.  The underlying meaning is, “are you greedy or not?”  It’s the “have you stopped beating your wife” scenario.  A player desiring to be paid what they believe they’re worth shouldn’t be a problem.

And really, why is it the player who always has to show his allegiance to the team?  Shouldn’t the team show their allegiance to the player (and their performance) with a proper contract?

Blue387
3 years 6 months ago

I liked Beltran. I do wish he had signed with an American League team instead of the Cardinals since he could be a DH in a few years. I also don’t want him to beat the Mets.

baybombers
3 years 6 months ago

wait i thought the experts on here said it was impossible to sign the two aces? Signing both tim and matt was out of the question? Well look at that, it can be done? The giants payroll isnt like the padres or pirates like the yankee and AL fans thought. Ohhhhhh. east coast bias is awesome

rainyperez
3 years 6 months ago

Another sell out season and a playoff run means that payroll will shoot up yet again. The Giants are slowly becoming in the top echelon of payrolls.