Giants Notes: Cespedes, Ramirez, Torres

Yesterday, Giants GM Brian Sabean talked to the press about the possibility of signing Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum to contract extensions.  Here's more on San Fran..

  • Not a huge surprise here, but Sabean said that the Giants won't go after Yoenis Cespedes, tweets Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle.  "The price tag is probably beyond what his talent is," the GM said.  The outfielder still has a number of suitors including the Marlins, Cubs, White Sox, Orioles, and Tigers.
  • Sabean said that Ramon Ramirez was included in the Andres TorresAngel Pagan trade in December to even out the money, Schulman tweets.  Back in December, the GM admitted that if the Giants hadn't traded Ramirez, they would have tendered the right-hander a contract.
  • Speaking of Torres, a competing baseball exec told Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (via Twitter) that he sees the former Giant as a fifth outfielder, even though he is slated to start in center field for the Mets.  Heyman agrees with that assertion.


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31 Comments on "Giants Notes: Cespedes, Ramirez, Torres"


3 years 6 months ago

Yeah and Dave Cameron correctly pointed out that Torres as a fifth outfielder is a completely idiotic characterisation. He’s been fine with the bat, not even considering his excellent glove.

gocubs418
3 years 6 months ago

Agreed. I hope the Cubs do not sign him. Let the Marlins waste the money. Big risk

Ian_Smell
3 years 6 months ago

I like your avatar.

gocubs418
3 years 6 months ago

Quite the picture.

heavyhitter
3 years 6 months ago

Heyman is a good reporter, but a lousy talent evaluator. Torres is either a top-of-the-line 4th OF or an average starting OF at worst.

Chris Whitby
3 years 6 months ago

Depends if you think you will see the 2010 (6.8 fWAR) or 2011 (2.1 fWAR) version of Torres this season. I’ll settle for something in the middle.

heavyhitter
3 years 6 months ago

What is average for a starting outfielder?

MetsMagic
3 years 6 months ago

2.1 is generally considered league average. So even in a down year, in which his BABIP was below his career norms I might add, he was still an average starting CF even with a 85 WRC+. 

ZAK
ZAK
3 years 6 months ago

“Torres is either a top-of-the-line 4th OF or an average starting OF at worst.” 

That’s true physically, he’s a good starter, 2010 proved that. But his mental condition lags behind his talent. 

ZAK
ZAK
3 years 6 months ago

“Torres is either a top-of-the-line 4th OF or an average starting OF at worst.” 

That’s true physically, he’s a good starter, 2010 proved that. But his mental condition lags behind his talent. 

3 years 6 months ago

No way Torres is a 4th or 5th outfielder…no way.  He’s one of the best defenders in baseball. Outside of a poor offensive season last year (in which he hit in terrible lineup), he’s been more than able to hold his own as a hitter.  Torres is one of the better CFs in MLB, not every year, but I think he still he has few great years left in him

Kirk Edward Gerwin
3 years 6 months ago

still have a nagging suspicion he will be wearing the Old English D by this time next week.

MetsMagic
3 years 6 months ago

Torres has a 19.9 career UZR/150, and had one good and one great (6.8 WAR in 2010) season before a down year where he was injured. As someone whose dealt successfully with my own ADHD in the past, Andres didn’t arrive late because of lack of talent. 

ZAK
ZAK
3 years 6 months ago

Don’t get me wrong- the 2010 Andres Torres was quite possibly the most admirable player on the field in Texas, game 5 of the WS. But as much as we fans did admire THAT guy, he wasn’t that same player in 2011. His medical situation is very complex and may have wholly to do with his decline. But those familiar with his situation see the same problems continuing with the high level of pressure in a starting role. The Mets will likely find him more untenable than Pagan for entirely different reasons. I just sincerely hope Torres finds a role that doesn’t overstress him.

northsfbay
3 years 6 months ago

It is good to hear that there is a good chance that the Giants can resign Lincecum and Cain. They are 2 of the core players. The core players are Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Sandavol, Posey. We need position player pospects to pan out. Crawford, Belt, Pill.

rainyperez
3 years 6 months ago

Gary Brown is looking like the real deal. If he does extremely well in AA he’ll be a call up midseason if Pagan is terrible or we’ll see him in September for sure. Just worried about his walk rate. If he increases that he’ll have 50+ steals a season.

ZAK
ZAK
3 years 6 months ago

“If he does extremely well in AA he’ll be a call up midseason” 

Directly from Bobby Evans VP Player Development: “Ideally Brown will stay in the minors the whole year including Sept.” From the last hot stove show on KNBR. 

Brown would need to scorch the ball all the way from aa to aaa and then get called up in Sept based on Sabean’s judgement, the only one beyond Bochy and Evans who is slightly more inclined to see players sooner. IMO Brown has to have the goal in mind to make it in Sept, Evans doesn’t think so, Sabean likely does (he said last year it’s not impossible to see Brown as a Sept callup this year). But barring major injuries to Pagan and Cabrera we won’t see Brown in CF this year. They seem to ideally want him on the Posey track in 2013.  

northsfbay
3 years 6 months ago

It is good to hear that there is a good chance that the Giants can resign Lincecum and Cain. They are 2 of the core players. The core players are Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Sandavol, Posey. We need position player pospects to pan out. Crawford, Belt, Pill.

bayareabeast
3 years 6 months ago

i seriously cant wait for the season to start! i need something to get my head off the niners, and the whiskey isnt cuttin it.

greggofboken
3 years 6 months ago

The fact that Sabean viewed Ramirez as a toss-in tells me everything I need to know about him.  As far as I’m concerned, Ramirez is the big pay-off in this deal and is the reason that rather than being a wash, this trade is a win for the Mets.

Tony DiQuattro
3 years 6 months ago

True dat. Saw him at fanfest today and wanted to say some things that you can’t post here without having a comment removed.

Whole_New_World
3 years 6 months ago

Totally agree that Ramirez IS the deal here. But, according to Sabean he’s a throw-in because the Giants didn’t want to pay him $2.5 million?

Little tired of seeing the penny-pinching while Sabean insists that the Zito and Rowand contracts are not influencing roster decisions.

55saveslives
3 years 6 months ago

I really like Torres, but more as a person than a baseball player.  He is seriously one of the nicest most genuine people if you get a chance to talk to him.  Glad he got a ring!!

BustyPoser
3 years 6 months ago

Because the price tag being above a player’s talent level has totally stopped Sabean before, right?

timmah_55
3 years 6 months ago

If he was 32 years old with the same talent potential, Sabean would have thrown the money at him faster than a Brian Wilson fastball.

Encarnacion's Parrot
3 years 6 months ago

A guy who put up 6.8 WAR a year ago is a 5th outfielder? Heyman clearly forgot to switch his filter from brain to mouth back on.

Even at 2 WAR, you’re still considered to be an average player at worst.

I guess he really does need Boras telling him what to say..

cachhubguy
3 years 6 months ago

You can have Marlon Byrd.

coreif
3 years 6 months ago

Here’s another Giants note: They won the Super Bowl…

heavyhitter
3 years 6 months ago

Disagree. 5th outfielders are usually one-trick ponies. Good speed/defense but
no hitting or decent hitter with no speed/defense. Torres can hold his own in
both departments.

MetsMagic
3 years 6 months ago

I watched that same MLB Network show you did. It was center fielders, and he was right behind Marlon Byrd. I like Torres, loved the trade (and I’m a Pagan fan), but don’t get ahead of yourself. 

ZAK
ZAK
3 years 6 months ago

It remains to be seen whether Torres can hit solidly again from both sides of the plate which he needs to do to be effective. He’s also got issues with using a 36oz bat where he can get all the pull happy he wants from the left side and hit balls down the line, but then from the right side he goes back to the 34 and wants to slap the ball the other way. He really was better with the 36 all around which he did in 2010, but there were signs he wasn’t going to maintain that line drive up the middle approach from the right side. He’s got to find one approach or the other, pull or slap, a complicated strategy for a guy who has trouble concentrating without meds.