Dodgers, Phillies Complete Roberto Hernandez Trade

AUG. 28: The Phillies have announced that they’ve acquired right-hander Victor Arano as the second player in the Hernandez trade. The 19-year-old Arano ranked as the Dodgers’ No. 14 prospect on MLB.com’s midseason Top 20 list.

Arano totaled a 4.08 ERA with 8.7 K/9 and 2.1 BB/9 in 86 innings of work at Class-A Great Lakes this season, making 15 starts and eight relief appearances. Jim Callis and Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com praise Arano’s 90-91 mph fastball (which tops out at 94 mph) and slider, though they note that his changeup needs more work. Still, Arano is physically mature for a teenager and shows an advanced feel for pitching, per the MLB.com duo, who project him as a starter in the long term despite the fact that he’s presently had more success in the bullpen.

AUG. 16: The Phillies have announced that one of the two players they’re acquiring from the Dodgers is second baseman Jesmuel Valentin, a 2012 first-round pick from Puerto Rico who was hitting .282/.352/.433 for Class A Great Lakes as a 20-year-old. Heading into the season, Baseball America’s Prospect Handbook 2014 listed him as the Dodgers’ 22nd-best prospect, projecting him as a utility player. MLB.com ranked him at No. 13 in the Dodgers’ system and was somewhat more optimistic, suggesting he lacks power but could be the sort of hitter who typically bats second in a team’s batting order. He is the son of former big-league infielder Jose Valentin.

AUG. 7: The Phillies announce that they have traded Roberto Hernandez to the Dodgers for two players to be named later or cash considerations.  The Phillies placed Hernandez, along with a number of other players, on revocable waivers on Saturday.
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The Phillies signed Hernandez to a one-year, $4.5MM deal last winter, and he posted a 3.87 ERA with 5.6 K/9 and 4.1 BB/9 in 121 innings for them, with a strong 52.0% ground ball rate. He has gotten good results recently, with a 2.18 ERA in three starts since the All-Star break. Hernandez, formerly known as Fausto Carmona, has played parts of nine seasons, also spending time with the Indians and Rays.

Hernandez’s role with the Dodgers is unclear. Obviously, they have a strong rotation featuring Clayton Kershaw, Zack Greinke, and Hyun-Jin Ryu. Josh Beckett has, however, struggled in three outings since returning from the disabled list with a hip injury, and Matt Gelb of the Inquirer tweets that Hernandez will start in Beckett’s place Friday.

For the Phillies, the move marks their first trade of a veteran since their very quiet trade deadline. It may have helped them that Hernandez’s contract was a relatively easy one to trade. The Phillies are currently 51-63 and in last place in the NL East.

ESPN’s Jayson Stark first tweeted that the Phillies would get two “lower-level minor leaguers,” and MLB.com’s Todd Zolecki tweeted that the Phillies would select them from a group of players.

Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.


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160 Comments on "Dodgers, Phillies Complete Roberto Hernandez Trade"


Baloo
1 year 24 days ago

Hey, at least Amaro made a move.

alfredo garcia
1 year 24 days ago

AKA Fausto carmona

Tom
1 year 24 days ago

Two players! what a steal! he doubled his initial investment!

dieharddodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

It could be just cash. Won’t know til later.

John Cate
1 year 24 days ago

Cash might be better. They’ve got to pay Howard’s buyout somehow…

oleosmirf
1 year 24 days ago

Fausto Carmona has already been named later though

1 year 24 days ago

Well done.

Tko11
Tko11
1 year 24 days ago

How long were you saving that one?

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1 year 2 days ago

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vtadave
1 year 24 days ago

Not exactly the Phillies pitcher I was hoping for, but I don’t think Hamels is getting traded to any team.

Ray Ray
1 year 24 days ago

I wouldn’t be surprised if Hamels is a Cub by the end of the month.

1 year 24 days ago

I have a feeling that the media shelling Philly took after their sleepy deadline performance could serve as a wake up call.

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

If FO/ownership listens to the fans/media on moves they should/shouldn’t make, I’d be much more worried about the front office.

1 year 24 days ago

They should if the fans/media are telling them it’s time to sell players for reasonable returns. Band aids aren’t going to fix this team. Prospects are. You can’t get prospects if you demand the world from everyone.

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

It’s a difference of a opinion on reasonable returns. The only player that RAJ has demanded the world for is Cole Hamels – a top 15 (arguably 10) starter in baseball locked up to a 4 year contract at a guaranteed rate. We’ll see this winter whether that rate is a bargain, market value, or an overpay.

rct
1 year 24 days ago

The ‘guaranteed rate’ thing is not a selling feature in this case because huge amount of it.

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

Like I said – we’ll see this winter where it falls in line. If Lester, Scherzer, and Shields all come out this winter and sign $25+ M AAV deals (or 6+ year deals for more than $20 M AAV), then I think the scale tips toward Hamels as having a below market deal (especially if the Phillies throw in the $10 M they have been rumored to).

rct
1 year 24 days ago

I’m not so sure that matters, though, because you’re still going to be paying 34 year old Cole Hamels $22.5MM and you’re likely going to be paying him $20MM the following year. He’s great now, but how great is he going to be in 4 and 5 years? The fact that he’s guaranteed to get a ton of money is not a selling feature.

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

It is if you only have to pay a 34 year old Cole Hamels $22.5 M while the market jumps up to paying “average” guys in their early 30s $10-$15 M. Or paying an ace of equal quality $25 M in his age 36-37 season.

rct
1 year 24 days ago

You expect the market to make paying an ‘average’ guy $22.5MM look like a good deal in only 4 years? There are virtually no long term deals in baseball that have looked good in the latter portions of them. Cole Hamels is like the 5th highest paid pitcher in baseball. The fact that he’s locked into that rate for 4-5 more seasons is not a selling feature considering his age.

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

Didn’t say an average guy would make $22.5 M in 4 years. I said an average guy would make $10-15 M in 4 years (basing that off of deals we’ve seen in the recent offseason, where a guy like Phil Hughes made $8 M AAV or Scott Feldman made $10 M AAV). I could see those numbers jumping up by 20-30% in 4 years time.

rct
1 year 24 days ago

I’m saying that. I don’t expect Cole Hamels to be much better than average in four years. Even if the average guy is making $10-15MM in four years, paying Hamels twice that is not going to be a good deal.

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

And that’s where our opinions differ so there is no real reason to continue this good discussion. I think he’ll still be above average in 4 years (maybe not top 10-15 anymore, but probably still in the upper 3rd of starters). Plus, I’m looking at it as paying for the life of the contract – not just that last year.

rct
1 year 24 days ago

Good points, but I’m also looking at the length of the deal and not just the last year. It’s essentially a 5 year deal and I’m looking at the final two years where you’re shelling out over $42MM for him. In the age of better steroid testing, I look at Hamels as closer to Verlander than someone like Andy Pettitte. I’d be shocked if Hamels was still pitching great in year 4 and 5 (or even 3) of his current deal.

TommyC
1 year 24 days ago

A huge amount that will be below market value for an elite starter after the monster deals Scherzer and Lester sign this winter.

Great players are expensive. Who’dve though?

rct
1 year 24 days ago

How are you so sure about that? And please give me a few examples of long term deals that have worked out. Just because other teams may give Scherzer and Lester monster deals doesn’t magically make it a good idea to trade for a guy who’s ‘guaranteed rate’ is essentially 5 more years at $110MM.

NotCanon
1 year 24 days ago

Define “worked out.” Everybody and their third uncle twice removed knows that when you sign a star player in the middle of their career, you’re doing so with the expectation that they’ll provide above what they’re worth for a portion of it, and below what they’re worth for a portion of it.

If you think that Cole Hamels will continue to be a top-10-15 pitcher in the sport for another 2-3 years, his $22.5MM AAV over 4 years is well worth it. At that point, he’ll be 33, well within the age curve for maintaining approximately his current level of performance. Yes, his age 34 season may see a dip – and if you let his option vest, so might his age 35 – but that doesn’t mean he won’t be more than worth his cost over the life of his deal.

This isn’t fantasy world, where 30-year-old players near the top of the sport are willing to sign deals that will expire before their best years are over.

rct
1 year 24 days ago

At this point, a ‘GM-by-committee’ approach to the Phillies FO consisting of MLBTR comments would be doing a far better job than ol’ Rubes.

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

That’s not my point. My point is that if, as a company, you are doing exactly what your customer tells you to do, you are going to be in trouble real quick (because the majority of the customers don’t think long term).

1 year 24 days ago

That’s not really what I said. I said that the media shelling could be a wake up call. Because they’re right.

If the media was hounding them to sign someone like Scherzer or Lester in the offseason, obviously they shouldn’t make the move. But this is a case where the FO should listen to the fans.

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

Media I’d give a little more credence to (I’m talking writers, not radio/tv shows – who are essentially fans with connections in Philly). And while a move can be supported/hated by the fans, I would never want a FO deciding their moves based on what the fans want.

Zach
1 year 24 days ago

Give us the two players… we don’t need cash.

Ray Ray
1 year 24 days ago

So Ryan Howard is just going to pay himself now?

Donskoy
1 year 24 days ago

Coincidentally, Ryan Howard makes just enough to pay Ryan Howard.

Zach
1 year 24 days ago

Money has never been an issue. Why would they take the cash? What they really need is players, any players. Hell, I’m sure one of them could do better than Howard anyways. He’ll get his money (not that he earned it all) but I highly doubt the cash considerations would put any dent into the albatross amount of money he is owed.

John Cate
1 year 24 days ago

You’d do better just to take the cash and use it to pay Howard and his contract to go away.

Zach
1 year 24 days ago

I’m sure what little “cash considerations” is won’t make him walk away. That’s peanuts to him.

John Cate
1 year 23 days ago

I didn’t think that would cover the whole bill, but every dollar counts!

jeremy
1 year 24 days ago

cant we use him in the pen just incase or do we DL beckett again

bleedDODGERblue
1 year 24 days ago

How are you going to mention Beckett has struggled but not Haren?? Haren has been TERRIBLE outside of the beginning of the year and his last start last night. Beckett had a top era before he hit the DL. Roberto Carmona is coming in to replace Haren

jeremy
1 year 24 days ago

i think they dont say haren name because he brought out his inner kershaw while beckett cant pitch more then 4 or 5 innings since getting hurt. so it safe to say beckett might be DL again

iedodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

Maybe he is gonna hit that same second half stride like he did last year with the Nats.

GameMusic3
1 year 24 days ago

If Dan Haren has an inner Kershaw he probably ate a bobblehead.

Chris Lattier
1 year 24 days ago

I heard RA asked for Pederson, Urias and Seager in return.

Dave Shearer
1 year 24 days ago

hopefully he is traded for players. trading for cash is boring. a few low Single A guys is better then nothing.

Ace2095
1 year 24 days ago

RAJ will choose the cash 😛

Sean
1 year 24 days ago

Not enough high batting average prospects to choose from

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

Bert has been solid for his last half dozen starts or so. He did his job (pitch well enough to get traded). He’s actually been pretty decent against .500+ teams.

He won’t impress you, but he does a good job as a 5 starter. Also, he’s got a half dozen nicknames – ranging from “the artist formerly known as Fausto” to “Rubber Toe”.

iedodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

Rubber Toe?

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

Maybe it was just our announcer. He would say “Roberto” – and it sounded like “Rubber Toe” sometimes. It became a bit of a joke among the beat writers – that the fans picked up on.

iedodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

O now i get it.

James
1 year 24 days ago

I think he is a little better than a 5th starter on an average team, maybe not much more, but an inning eating 4th pitcher, but he is not far from league average in ERA (i think that is about a half run better than league average)

jeremy
1 year 24 days ago

it better then having beckett right now pitch no more then 4 or 5 innings a game

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

Bert has been wild this year. He’s had 10 starts (out of 20) where he has failed to finish 6 innings. I’d struggle to call that an innings eater. He’s also had 5 starts where he’s gone 7+ innings and given up 2 or fewer ER. To me, that’s pretty much the definition of a 5 starter (never consistent, can be really good or really bad – and at the end of the year, his stat line will look pretty average).

dieharddodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

Yeah, his walk rate looks high, but I like that his ground ball rate is high and that he apparently has pitched well after the All-Star break.
I think Hernandez is likely to be used as a 5th starter at some point because Beckett’s got a degenerative hip condition and he has been really struggling of late. He’s gutted it through like a warrior, but I think a DL stint is likely and it will be season, and likely career, ending.

BlueSkyLA
BlueSkyLA
1 year 24 days ago

With Maholm done for the season I’d expect either Beckett or Haren going into his swing/long role and Hernandez taking his spot in the rotation.

NotCanon
1 year 24 days ago

To be fair to Roberto, most of those starts came in the beginning of the year, when he was presumably not as stretched out as he could have been. Since June 1st, he’s averaged 6.1 IP/start with a 3.95 ERA.

iedodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

Not quite the Phillie I was hoping for but………..

iedodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

Who claimed Hamels anyway?

jeremy
1 year 24 days ago

some might think the cubs but who knows

iedodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

I keep hoping he reached the Dodgers.

jeremy
1 year 24 days ago

well with this trade i doubt it and phil would want a good trade package compare to the one we gave in this trade

schaddy24
1 year 24 days ago

Cubs

Big Giant Head
1 year 24 days ago

Pirates

James
1 year 24 days ago

not likely, they have too good of a record.

iedodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

Plus the money……

iedodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

Who did we get Roberto Hernandez or Fausto Carmona?

1 year 24 days ago

I am not sure if this is a joke, but they are the same player.

iedodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

It was a joke.

koufaxblue
1 year 24 days ago

Both

TommyL
1 year 24 days ago

Roberto Hernandez, aka Fausto Carmona, aka Paul Maholm.

John Cate
1 year 24 days ago

Doesn’t matter. His career ERA as Fausto was 4.59, and his career ERA as Roberto Hernandez is also 4.59.

Jeff Miller
1 year 24 days ago

Is Darnell Sweeney and Lindsey Caughel too much? RAJ better not take cash considerations.

Dustin Smith
1 year 24 days ago

yes. Its going to be cash or ppl you’ve never heard of. There isn’t going to be any decent return for this

Jeff Miller
1 year 24 days ago

I dunno about that. Marlon Byrd was dealt last August for a couple good prospects. John Buck was included in that deal as well, but the Mets basically paid his salary.

GrilledCheese39
1 year 24 days ago

But the difference is Byrd is actually good…

Jeff Miller
1 year 24 days ago

Hernandez has been pretty good this year and there’s no commitment beyond this year. I’m not saying a top 10 prospect. But a 15-20 guy and a low-level prospect isn’t an unreasonable ask for a rotation arm in a pennant race.

Moebarguy
1 year 24 days ago

Hernandez has a 4.62 FIP / 4.58 xFIP and 1.36 K/BB this season. He’s not good–and certainly not on the same value level as Byrd was in 2013.

Jeff Miller
1 year 24 days ago

He’s a #5 SP, do you really expect much better than that? What you can count on from him is he’ll likely give you 6 innings and keep the team in the game. That’s what you hope to get from a #5 and generally what he’s provided this year.

Jeff Snedden
1 year 24 days ago

As good as Byrd was for the Pirates down the stretch last year, I’m sure Neal Huntington would like to have that trade back if he could. Dilson Herrera was the main piece in that deal, and at just 20-years old, he looks like he might end up being a fantastic middle infielder. Combined stats this season between A+ and AA ball – .320/.375/.464 with 9 HR/59 RBI and 22 stolen bases in 503 plate appearances. The kid is a stud. Add to that Vic Black who seems to be getting better control of his huge fastball. I loved me some Marlon Byrd, but damn if the Mets didn’t take the Pirates on that trade.

Ray Ray
1 year 24 days ago

Without Byrd there is a good chance that the Pirates don’t have a better record than the Reds and that wild card game that rattled Cueto is played in Cincinnati. Herrera MIGHT be good, but Byrd DEFINITELY got the Pirates to the next round of the playoffs.

Sean
1 year 24 days ago

Sweeney would be too much, the Dodgers are light on hitting prospects. Caughel and a struggling arm like Magill or Red Patterson would seem like a fair return if Hernandez works out well for the Dodgers. Hopefully the value in cash or prospects is dependent on the team’s or Fausto’s performance.

Jeff Miller
1 year 24 days ago

The Dodgers have 2 of the top 10-15 hitting prospects in Pederson and Seager plus Alex Guerrero who raked at AAA before he got bitten by Miguel Olivo. That’s 3 really good potential hitters. Sweeney is probably gonna be dealt or relegated to the role of utility infielder.

Moot point now that we know the PTBNL will come from a pool of A ball players.

Sean
1 year 24 days ago

They’ve already started moving him around in prep for a utility role. Last night and all month he’s been seeing time at CF, so he is somewhat blocked. That still doesn’t change how lacking the Dodgers are in minor league hitters. They have a few at the top as you pointed out but lack serious depth. Why would LA be so reluctant to move it’s prospects in a trade for Price or Lester but give away two of their better performers for Hernandez? Doesn’t make sense, especially when this ownership has shown a willingness to spend money in lieu of prospects over and over. Stan Kasten’s no fool.

Klaus D.
1 year 24 days ago

Hernandez leads the Phillies pitchers in wins (tied with Hamels)…at 6. Our duo of aces is now down to 1.

iedodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

I don’t think anyone considers Hernandez an ace.

Klaus D.
1 year 24 days ago

Was just joking. Though compared to the others on our pitching staff, he was close.

iedodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

Really, is it that bad?

Klaus D.
1 year 24 days ago

Well, like I said, Hamels and Hernandez lead the team in wins with 6 each. After that we have Kendrick who has been one of the worst starters over the last 2 years and two recent minor league call-ups (David Buchanan and Sean O’Sullivan). Both of which are Kendrick clones at best. A.J. Burnett has been ok at times and bad at others. He could be traded soon too. And Cliff Lee is done for the season. Not much to look forward to.

NotCanon
1 year 24 days ago

I’d say Buchanan has a chance to be more consistently average than KK. Incidentally, Kendrick may be bad over time, but he’s had his flashes of brilliance too – and for the 2nd half of 2012 and the first of 2013 he was arguably the best Phillies starter (and not because Lee and Hamels were terrible).

Klaus D.
1 year 24 days ago

Sorry, Burnett and Buchanan both have 6 wins too. Regardless, it’s bad.

iedodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

Hernandez to Dodgers for future employment considerations for RAJ

John Cate
1 year 24 days ago

Been there, done that. He was a Dodger farmhand in the early ’90s. Wasn’t any good then, either.

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

First impression of a possible return – someone on the 40 man roster who they don’t think will clear waivers, a quick look at that list, and I see mostly pitchers. Matt Magill, Jarret Martin, Red Patterson, Jose Dominguez, and Yimi Garcia.

Not saying any of those is the guy we’ll see coming to Philly, just that it would make some sense (especially to have them as a PTBNL).

jeremy
1 year 24 days ago

as a dodger fan you can have matt magill and maybe you guys can fix his control issue.

dieharddodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

I could see a guy like Patterson being a guy in the trade. It’ll be 2 guys who had no chance to ever make it to the Dodgers.

I mean you guys got Ethan Martin from us a couple years ago and he didn’t end up really being anything for the Phils.

The quality of the Dodgers’ prospects is very top heavy right now. Big drop off after like the first 10. Still trying to improve overall depth.

jeremy
1 year 24 days ago

i wouldnt call it a big drop off their some good prospects after the top ten like yimi Garcia

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

Yea, we got Martin (plus Lindblom) for 2 months of Shane Victorino (in a down year). Even if Martin fails as a starter (which looks likely), and turns into a decent bullpen piece (which if he has shown flashes of), I’d be ok with that trade. He got hurt late last year and hasn’t gotten his arm strength back 100% yet.

dieharddodgerfan
1 year 24 days ago

Sure its not bad, but my point is that a guy like Martin or Lindblom is very replaceable for the Dodgers. A team like the Dodgers should look at prospects as assets to trade to help the big league team. Even a lot of “elite” prospects end up not really panning out, more so lower rated guys. I think any guy given up (if any) in this trade won’t be someone who the Dodgers will regret trading down the road.

lt michaels
1 year 24 days ago

Philly writers are saying it will be from a pool of A-ball prospects.

Phillyfan425
1 year 24 days ago

Yea, I saw. I made my prediction 30 minutes before the interview.

Christopher Velez
1 year 24 days ago

If RAJ did manage to turn the Pitcher Formerly Known As Fausto Carmona into some combination of Matt Magill, Jose Dominguez, and/or Yimi Garcia, he’d get a gold star for his work. As they’re all under-25 MLB-ready bullpen pieces with plus stuff, even if they’ve all got red flags about their efficacy.

Red Patterson’s more likely the type of return we should be expecting, as he’s a decent depth piece whose numbers look like they project a decent back-of-the-rotation piece even if he’s older than you’d like for someone. (As he’s spending his age-27 year in AAA.)