JULY 31: The deal is official, as the teams have announced the swap.
JULY 30, 9:35pm: Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News reports that the league has officially approved the trade, meaning an official announcement shouldn’t be too far off.
JULY 29: After months of rumors, Phillies ace Cole Hamels has reportedly been traded to the Rangers in an eight-player deal. The Rangers acquired Hamels, reliever Jake Diekman, and $9.5MM in cash for veteran lefty Matt Harrison, pitching prospects Jake Thompson, Alec Asher, and Jerad Eickhoff, catching prospect Jorge Alfaro, and outfield prospect Nick Williams.
Tonight’s win left the Rangers four games out in the AL Wild Card, but the Hamels deal was likely completed with future seasons in mind as well. Hamels is signed through the 2018 season and is guaranteed $82.1MM through the end of his contract, plus a 2019 club/vesting option. Hamels finished his illustrious Phillies career with a flourish, pitching a no-hitter against the Cubs at Wrigley Field on Saturday. The Phillies had drafted Hamels out of high school in the first round in 2002, and he won 114 games for them with a 3.30 ERA, three All-Star Game appearances, and four top-eight Cy Young finishes. The 31-year-old also sports a 3.09 ERA across 13 postseason starts and was NLCS and World Series MVP when his Phillies won it all in 2008.
Hamels will pair with Yu Darvish, who is presently recovering from Tommy John surgery, atop the Rangers’ rotation, thereby giving Texas a formidable one-two punch to compete in the AL West next year. Joining that pair will be some combination of Martin Perez, Derek Holland, Chi Chi Gonzalez and Nick Martinez.
The Giants, Red Sox, Astros, Dodgers, Diamondbacks, Cubs, and Yankees had also been linked to Hamels in recent days. According to Bob Nightengale of USA Today, the lefty wielded his no-trade clause to reject a deal to the Astros. The Phillies did not need Hamels’ consent to trade him to Texas. With the Royals adding Johnny Cueto on Sunday, teams still seeking an ace in advance of Friday’s trade deadline may turn to the Tigers’ David Price.
Thompson and Alfaro, each top 50 prospects in the game depending on who you ask, are the best pieces coming back to the rebuilding Phillies. Originally a second-round pick by the Tigers in 2012, Detroit traded Thompson to the Rangers a year ago in the Joakim Soria deal. Thompson, currently pitching in Double-A, was labeled a “potential No. 2 or 3 starter” by Baseball America prior to the season. Alfaro, also last seen at Double-A, was labeled “one of the minors’ best catching prospects” recently by ESPN’s Keith Law despite a significant ankle injury suffered in June. Williams is known for an “explosive tool set,” per BA, and he’s currently hitting .300/.357/.480 at Double-A. The Rangers got quantity in this deal too, as MLB.com says Eickhoff could become a No. 3 starter and BA says Asher profiles as a potential No. 4 starter.
Harrison’s inclusion has a financial element, since the 29-year-old southpaw is owed more than $32MM through 2017. The Phillies will be on the hook for all of that, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The Phillies taking him back may have improved their prospect return, as Harrison has made only nine starts since 2013 due to injuries. Most recently, he had spinal fusion surgery in his lower back in June of last year and returned to a big league mound this month.
Diekman, a 28-year-old southpaw, has struggled out of the Phillies’ bullpen this year with a 5.15 ERA in 36 2/3 innings. He has posted strong strikeout rates throughout his career, but this year his walks ballooned and his batting average on balls in play jumped to .381.
Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News first noted that the Rangers and Phillies were moving closer to a Hamels agreement, and MLB.com’s T.R. Sullivan said the two sides were getting close. Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com, Todd Zolecki of MLB.com, Jeff Wilson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Grant, and Sullivan added further details. Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports first reported the amount of money going to the Rangers.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Jerad Eickhoff is possible in the deal according to Salisbury. Would imagine hes the 4th piece. 25 year old 4.00+ ERA guy.
I really hope JD isn’t giving away the farm.
No Gallo or Mazara is in the deal
Get on the phone Farheidman!
He’s to chicken, he totally dropped the ball. Latos is possibly hurt, if the Dodgers don’t get Price…. wow huge fail on the Dodgers part, unless somehow then win the WS, doubtful. In the offseason, don’t be surprised if the Phillies throw big money at Grienke as well. Your GM is going to give Amaro a run for his money.
Yes Zaidi is the next Amaro after not giving you 2 of the top 5 prospects.
Wonder how you feel about this now. Also you can take Grienke… we had him in his prime and I’m sure he’ll love that bandbox of a ballpark.
So let me get this straight. Dodgers front office failed when they acquired:
-Mat Latos (27 years old), perfectly capable of being a solid #3/4 in our rotation
-Alex Wood (24 years old), pre-arbitration, team controlled for four more years, with solid all around stats that would satisfy many teams’ need for a #2/3 profile starter, but is slated to be our #4/5 starter
-Jim Johnson, a veteran bullpen arm that is having a solid year (2.25 ERA/ 3.18 FIP, 60.8% GB rate), who is making last season look like an outlier
-Luis Avilan, a solid, 26 year old lefty option out of the bullpen
-Michael Morse, a solid 1B/LF player with a similar profile to Van Slyke
-Jose Peraza, the Braves consensus #1 prospect, plays 2B (where we don’t have any minor league depth at except for Darnell Sweeney), who is only 21 years old playing at AAA slashing .295/.318/.379 while stealing 26 out of 33, having stolen 60 out of 75 in 2014 and 64 out of 79 in 2013, while displaying extremely solid contact skills (.335 and .342 averages; striking out only 12.7% in 2013, and 10.5% at High A and 7.7% at AA in 2014)
All that, while only giving up our #15 prospect, three pitching prospects not even in our top 30, Paco Rodriguez (who I will miss, but has had too many injuries IMO), and Hector Olivera (who, let’s be honest is expendable with our depth at 3B/SS). You have to be smoking something to think that even if we keep all those players above for this season, that it is a major win for the Dodgers!
Latos is BARELY a 5th starter !
You base that on what exactly? He’s 27 years old, has pitched 180+ innings every year except last year, has a career 3.43 ERA and 3.40 FIP, and 3.05 K/BB ratio. All of which isn’t half bad. If you are basing his overall performance on this season’s stat line you are severely overlooking two things:
1) He was supposedly pitching a little injured early on, and since coming back from a quick stay on the DL has pitched very well.
2) His velocity is back up to career norms, and his FIP for the season is 3.35 – a full run lower than his ERA, which indicates a string of bad luck as well. To say he is barely a 5th starter is ignorant at best, and trolling at worst.
Michael Morse is terrible
Michael Morse isn’t really a major piece in all these trades. More, the Dodgers took him, and his salary on, so that we wouldn’t have to surrender anything within our top 25 prospects for Mat Latos. Which was very smart and savvy in my opinion. At best, Morse is just like Van Slyke, at worst, we can DFA him and hope he clears waivers and we keep him for depth.
Alfaro is in the deal, (probably) according to Salisbury.
I just really hope that Alfaro isn’t in the deal. However likely that may be.
why? if you want a 5 year bet ill take him busting…
So does that mean the Dodgers get Price?
Could be Blue Jays still. I think Dodgers doing the Marlins/Braves deal to flip Wood to Tigers (along with someone else really good). But Jays are super aggressive, and I suspect Cardinals and Pirates are laying low too. Could be anyone.
I have a feeling Yankees will trade for Price.
What do they have that the Tigers would want? Severino is NOT enough.
Idk… Severino (a top 40 prospect) should be enough for a 2-3 month rental..
Severino is a top 25 prospect. If the Yankees offered him, he would be enough.
Probably based on 2 of Thompson/Alfaro/Brinson/Gonzalez/Williams, on top of 1-2 extra prospects in the 10-20 range
Mazara, Gallo and Williams are not in the deal.
This is good news!!! Williams and Mazara will be 2/3 of our outfield in two years along with Deshields!
Williams is in the deal, per sources, you probably know by now.
is getting close like just the tip?
Local Texas guys think it’s Alfaro, Brinson, Eickhof and either Chi Chi or Thompson
Not a huge fan, but its an acceptable Hamels deal.
if thats the package they should have gone with the baez package.
Alfaro, Brinson and Thompson are all really good prospects.
brinson really isnt, repeating a in hitting league and park, 21 is old for that level for a non college guy. alfaro is hurt, and honestly see him busting. thompson would be the headliner assuming its him and not chi chi, because chi chi is back end at best.
He’s right about Alfaro busting.. 92 BBs against 495 Ks in minor league career… looks like a recipe for bust.
Good I want the Yankees to have no part in him. He will not be as good pitching in the AL all the time.
And you know this how??
Have you not seen the games he’s pitched against al east teams this season????
Yes, but have you seen Phillies’ offense?
How does the phillies offense affect his ERA and stuff.
What does offense have to do with how many runs a pitcher gives up?
What does offense have to do with how many runs a pitcher gives up?
I was kidding…jeez
because you dont face the pitcher, guarantee his e.r.a goes up. thats why similar numbers always better to go a.l guy.
Yes, but Texas will let him bat instead of Andrus…lol
Yes, but Rangers will let him bat for Andrus which will improve team BA!
Now I’m hearing Williams NOT Brinson is in the deal.
Not sure I like that, ie Williams included.
What the..?? Refsnyder and Sanchez trumps those players. Yanks can even sacrifice Mason Williams to get it done. Williams will be elite in RF in Philly.
Refsnyder and Sanchez are not good prospects. Mason Williams would be Elite nowhere.
What drugs are you on. Gary Sanchez is a good prospect…
Reality. He is decent but his stock is not where it once was. He’s not a centerpiece in a major trade.
He is decent but his stock is fallen and he would not be a centerpiece in any major trade.
What drugs are you on. Gary Sanchez is a good prospect…
Sanchez is the top catching prospect in the international league.
He is not as good as what the Philles got. Sanchez is not a headliner.
Thompson, Alfaro, & Williams > Refsnyder, Sanchez, & Williams
Heyman says Hamels is going to Rangers.
Nick Williams, Jorge Alfaro, Jerad Eickhoff and 1-2 others for Cole Hamels is what its at atm.
Nick Williams, Jorge Alfaro, Jerad Eickoff, Alec Asher and possibly 1 more.
Phillies giving up Jake Diekman also.
Interesting honestly, hes a big part of the bullpen chemistry.
No Diekman is not. He was sent down recently. He’s way too inconsistent
Great deal for the Rangers.
Great deal for Texas. Gives them an outside chance for wild card if they can beat up on Oakland and Seattle in September. The Phillies taking on 37 million contract of Harrison is interesting. In effect they get two years of Hamels for free which is like the Jays and Tulo.
That doesn’t seem like a whole lot for Philly. Seems like the market must’ve dried up. Not a bad deal, but I figured they could’ve done better.
Yeah, I thought they’d get one top tier guy, and then some fillers.
If it’s Eickoff, Asher, Alfaro and Williams I’d say Texas did pretty good. Eickoff and Asher are very marginal prospects. More like depth guys.
Not done yet. Matt Harrison to Philadelphia as well. Diekman to Rangers
I think the Phillies didn’t do as well as many thought. I guess we’ll see how much cash they’re throwing in in addition to Diekman.
This. That’s a really nice haul. Much more than I thought Phillies would get. Teams putting big value on years of control it seems. This return is just orders of magnitude better than the rentals are getting.
until financial details comes out who knows. if they are giving texas a ton of money and took harrisons contract they lost.
What about $$$$ coming to Texas also?? Just askin’
What the what? If Mazara is truly not included in this deal the Phillies just got fleeced! The Rangers’ next best prospect is ranked like #60
I believe the Rangers got fleeced.
No, the Phillies totally got fleeced! The Rangers got Hamels, a good reliever, got rid of a bad contract and the Phillies are eating like a third of Hamels already ridiculously team friendly contract and they didn’t have to give up either of Gallo or Mazara!
ridiculously team friendly? i dont think you understand what that means…
IT IS RIDICULOUSLY TEAM FRIENDLY!!!!!! IF HAMELS WERE A FREE AGENT TODAY HE WOULD GET LIKE 100M MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thats not what makes a contract team friendly, its value as to what you are getting paid… a 4 win guy for 10 mil is better value than a 5 win guy for 20 mil. even if the 5 win guy would get more money in free agency, hamels contract is roughly in line with the 6 mil/war figure that is generally the consensus as true dollar value per war. although it is increasing.
I think you’re overstating how “team friendly” it is. There’s no way that Hamels would have gotten $100M more on the same length of contract. $23.5M is close to fair market value for Hamels… the only difference is that the Rangers only have to pay him for 3 more years instead of something like 7.
gammaraze, when you consider what the starting pitchers of Hamels’ caliber are getting in free agency these days (think Lester, Scherzer, Price this offseason), Hamels is great value. He would have made a LOT more than he is getting now if he were a free agent today. When you consider how good he is and what he brings to the team, he is FAR from expensive.
Diekman isn’t a good reliever, You need to watch more games. He was just sent down because he was getting abused and wild
Phillies get 3 top 100 prospects, another 2 meh prospects and a decent-upside starter in Harrison for a really control-based reliever with bad control, cole hamels and probably about 30-40m in cash. Harrison is owed 30M+
What the what? If Mazara isn’t in this deal the Phillies just got fleeced! The Rangers’ next best prospect is ranked like #60 overall
Its up for debate, but as a Phillies fan, I’m very, very happy with this deal.
Eickoff, Asher, Alfaro, Williams, Harris and Thompson for Diekman and Hamels.
Amaro just made the best trade of his entire tenure as GM.
Phillies now have 5 top 100 prospects, plus Franco, Giles and a ton of good-not-great pitching depth. Lets get this rebuild goin’!
It seems like a pretty light return, honestly man.
Agreed. It’s certainly heavy on quantity though
3 top 100 prospects, another top 15 organization guy, a guy to even out the money and a organization depth piece is a light return? What were you expecting.
I was expecting Yu Darvish, Yovani Gallardo (to flip to a 3rd team), Prince Fielder, Joey Gallo, Nomar Mazara, and Nolan Ryan’s HOF status.
It depends on what those prospects are ranked. Their isn’t 100 future all-stars in the minors right now. Probably more like 10-20. Probably once you get out of the top 50, you are looking at just solid starters, but not exceptional.
You need solid starters as well. You can’t pay everyone. A team like the Cubs, are going to have hard decisions to make in the coming years. With Soler,Bryant,Rizzo,The catcher, and all the others. Once they start adding in FA, that are overpaid on the back end…. itll be decision time. Its going to happen to some team this winter…. probably whoever signs grienke. That guys is going to get paaaaaaid for alllloooootttt years
I’m not sure how much money is changing hands, but I hope it is a lot. Steep price to pay in prospects. Good luck to them with your Phillies, Brixton.
Way to go Cubs, seems like you could have topped that package rather easily and yet…nothing.
there has been ross and kimbrel talks all day, so there you go jorge. baez in the package makes me cringe though.
@ Jorge Soler Powered – Yeah, I would have thought the Cubs could as well, but Im thinking the Phillies preference was to trade him to the AL, so they didn’t have to face him as much. He was more valuable to the Phillies than what they got, but its just time to move on. I think the Dodgers blew it the most, but will see how the rest of the deadline and playoffs go. This was a chance for them to go for it, the cubs chance to go for it will be coming soon. Best of luck to the Cubbies.
im not sure the Cubs really could. The Cubs also would have had to pick up that option year.
its a vesting option which if he is this horse that he is will easily clear… he wasnt on the no trade so no they wouldnt have to gauruntee it. and secondly baez, mckinney, edwards, underwood, and wilson contreras is a comparable package and the cubs wouldnt ask for the roughly 43.5 mil the phils essentially are paying…
So the Rangers get to keep Mazara and their good pitching prospects, and the Phillies are kicking in a reliever and some cash. Wow. If this is accurate, congrats Rangers fans and congrats Jon Daniels.
If this is accurate- if the Rangers got Hamels, plus a reliever and cash, without giving up Mazara or any of their good pitching prospects- congrats to Jon Daniels and congrats to Rangers fans.
But they gave up 3 other top 100 prospects, 2 other top 30 organization guys and a guy in Harrison who when healthy, is almost a good as Hamels.
They’re just prospects…no way to know if they ever pan out.
i know right, why even have minor leagues! seriously, top 100 doesnt mean anything as 80-150 is so close to the same thing. it’s preferences. but baez, mckinney, edwards, wilson contreras and pierce johnson tops this package….
Alfaro > Baez (positional scarcity) Mckinney = Williams, Thompson>>>>>Edwards.
baez is the better prospect though… higher ceiling, same floors. mckinney is a year younger at the same level hence why hes rated higher, edwards+ pierce johnson>>>>> thompson. i would even say contreras roughly is close to alfaro…
That’s the thing about Harry, “when healthy”, which he will likely never be again. And even when healthy, he’s not as good as Hamels. Good yes, but not as good as Hamels. This from a Rangers fan.
A guy when healthy, who hasn’t been healthy in 3 years, still doesn’t have a proven consistent track record like Hamels. Getting the Phillies to take Harrison is a genius move. Hamels only makes $10M more than Harrison the next 2 years, AND the Phillies are throwing in cash?? Excellent.
I honestly think you’re blindly delusional, not to be rude though. Hamels is one of the top 15-20? starters in the league, he’s under “cheap” team control for 4 years and your best player is a top 40ish prospect with a bad ankle. Without getting a big name this trade is awful, honestly. I am a Phillies fan and not a “FIRE RUBEN” every 3 seconds guy, I think he honestly gets too much hate but I digress. This trade is bad, people will be happy that they got a “young catcher” but they could have had 2 top 10 prospects in the league which is a game changer, instead they just have quantity. This trade would be perfectly fine if Utley and Howard were still in their prime and they added some young pieces around them, this does not give them a new core. Franco, Crawford and Mazara/Gallo would have given much more hope. I won’t even acknowledge the fact that you said Matt Harrison “almost as good as hamels”… I’ve got a better chance of making an impact in the rotation has Matt Harrison.
I want everyone who was screaming about how the Red Sox should’ve given up Mookie or whoever else for Hamels to note what the Rangers actually got him for.
3 top 50 prospects and a big time relief prospect. I didnt see the Redsox doing that.
What list shows three top 50 prospects?
conjecture of the top 5 BP, BA, LAW, Kiley, Sickles
Bob what are you talking about? Out of BA and MLB.com Thompson is the only one rated in the top 50 (#48 on BA and #60 on MLB.COM).
stupid phillies- once Dodgers were out of the picture, and Hamels refusing to go to Boston or Houston, Texas wasnt going to go overboard with no competition, so just sit tight and don’t trade him…
hopefully this will end up better than the trio of scrubs for Cliff Lee and the quartet for Curt Schilling.
You can’t really be upset with the Phillies on dealing Cliff Lee… no team dealing Cliff Lee has won the trade; not the Expos, not the Indians, not the Phillies, and not the Mariners.
Moving Harrison frees up 30mil. I love the guy but he’s one stumped toe away from a wheelchair. Glad the Phillies took him.
Phillies taking Harrison’s bad contract is ridiculous.
They shouldn’t have had to do that to get the prospect haul they got, which carved out Mazara.
The Phillies (and Brixton) will do their usually Phillies thing and tell us how good he was in 2012 and imply there’s no reason why he can’t do that again when no GM in the league would take that guy for free if they also had to pay out the two $13 million years coming and the $2 million buyout. Cliff Lee in retirement will have a better WAR than Harrison.
Ugh…
Hes a guy who evens out the money. If Harrison is a decent 5th starter, no one will care that much.
they will let him attempt to eat innings
big if, his stuff was fringe before a spinal fusion surgery!
Fringe? 3.39ERA, 3.29ERA in 2011 and 2012? He was a solid #2 or 3 before his injury. If he is fully healthy, expect him to be pretty solid next year. Problem is, no one knows how long he will last with that surgery he had.
Do the Phillies really need a decent 5th starter at this point? And Harrison is making a lot of money for a fifth starter. There’s no way he has positive trade value.
thats the point, he was dumped to allow the Phillies to probably add one of the other top 3 prospects in the deal. Harang is getting paid 6 million. So lets weigh some options here.
Except that you don’t pay a 5th starter $13.2M/year…
unless you are the dodgers. or astros… #scottfeldman
Feldman was their 3rd best starter last year, and this year there’s Keuchel and McCullers and then everyone else. Calling Feldman a 5th starter is like saying the Astros have a 1/2/5/5/5 rotation.
You do if that brings you an extra top 100 prospect on the return. I highly doubt they get all 3 of Williams, Alfaro and Thompson if they don’t take Harrison. Amaro said they’ll try to turn money into talent, and thats what they did.
I’m sure the fans would rather see a $10M pitcher perform like a $10M pitcher and not like some pre-arbitration player.
the only thing the Phillies have an abundance of is 5th starters haha
@P.Phanatic – LOL we are just going to have to wait this out. The rebuild has begun, will see where it takes us. You gotta factor in that we should have a really high draft pick this year, and they are poised to spend in the international draft this year. So its just going to take time. I’m still determining if I like the deal. I think we got the Rangers top pitching prospect, in Thompson. Williams isnt as good as Marza but if he can hit .275 25 hrs 90 rbis, it should be decent. The catcher worries me. I don’t like centering cornerstone pieces around catchers but we got one, and are hopefully set at that hard position to fill. The Phillies Starting rotation seems loaded at this point, with overflow going to the bullpen. Stankanng and Williams should be gone, and we can see who will fill out the rotations. Nola, Harrison, Biddle, Morgan, Efflin, Thompson, Asher,etc kilome, it should be solid enought that they can sign that top pitcher in FA. They need to focus on the starting position players now. At least they sold high for once.
Way too early in the rebuild to think about adding an ace or any big money free agents. They are looking to around 2018.
Ok this is the third time you have used the term “international draft” since no one else has taken the time to correct you, I will. There is no international draft. There is an international free agent signing period, but there is no international draft.
hey… at least i spelled “international” correctly 🙂 … I did know this, but your right, either way the Phillies are primed to spend a ton of money this year. They have the top money slots blah blah they should be able to get a MLB player if they are out there.
So it’s Hamels, Diekman for Asher, Eickhoff, Alfaro, Williams, Jake Thompson and Matt Harrison? Plus cash to TX?
Great trade for the Rangers.
Phillies didn’t hit a HR but they came close. I think they got a nice return.
Phillies net arguably 3 top 50 prospects, Eickhoff who could move to the bullpen immediately and pitch 96 to 97 mph with a plus curveball. After a solid draft of Randolph and Kingery, they will add the #1 pick in a pretty strong draft. All of their money will be off the books after 2017. Definetly what the Phillies needed. Depth, over a singular name.
It’s OK…but I’d have liked to have seen Chi Chi…Alfaro was a must…just to be able to take a chance on a catching prospect
Chi Chi has been down right awful. Id go as far as teams prefering Eickhoff over him. Chi Chi’s secondary stuff is non existent. He showed no command in his starts in the big leagues and had no out pitch. Maybe he becomes a #5 or a long man.
You’re low on him…that’s fine… He has talent and plenty like him
Alfaro, Williams, AND Thompson!! And Harrison to step into Hamel’s spot as veteran southpaw. Wow. Eickhoff and Asher also. Better be a shipload of money coming to Arlington, because we pretty much sold a top 100 prospect to Philly. If this is true, Philadelphia fans should be pretty excited, Amaro did well. Should have gotten Papelbon too with that haul. Still excited to get a great pitcher, hope he work out for us!!
@Micah – You got a steal of a deal. You will see why Phillies fans value Hamels so much. Its a shame they have crumbled around him, the guy is money, you will see. When the lights are the brightest, hes going to make you rangers fans cry with tears of joy. The guy is phenomenal… and he’s a good person. Good luck to the rangers, I’ll be rooting for Hamels/Rangers to win the AL/WS while the Phillies rebuild.
The Phillies don’t need Harrison to step into Hamels’ spot as a veteran southpaw!! What’s he gonna do? Keep them from losing 110 games?
Dave Dombrowski just won the Cole Hamels trade
Dave Dombrowski just won the Cole Hamels trade
Dave Dombrowski just won the Cole Hamels trade
Triple post…something wrong with the system moderator…
Also there are really no “can’t miss” guys in the deal – the bottom end of the top 100 doesn’t mean much more than a lottery ticket.
When you add that to taking on Harrison’s contract, it’s quite possible that in 2 years people will say they should have hung on to Hamels until he revised his 9 team list to include more teams that actually wanted him.
All these vesting options and no trade lists by Ruin Tomorrow have ruined the Phillies.
He’d actually likely revise the list to include the likely trade destinations in order to trigger his contract clauses
Hamels wouldve revised his no trade to teams that couldnt afford his option. Thats business. Adding the most prospects possible gives you the best chance. Theres no cant miss prospects and if they are its players like Carlos Correa. Those guys dont get dealt.
Funny….Carlos Correa wasn’t exactly can’t miss when he was drafted…. Seemed like a signability deal for the Astros… He was solid…but not a consensus #1…and he struggled a bit early in the minors
Reports are about 25% of teams valued Correa #1. The Astros were just the first team to manipulate the draft pool scenario. To think that move netted Correa, Lance Mccullers and Evan Gattis.
That’s about right…he was a consensus Top Ten pick…with those 25% of teams liking him at #1. Of course they didn’t all hold that pick… But it worked for the Astros
were these guys just drafted or targeted in a trade though… seeing them with minimal at bats with a wood bat makes it more difficult.
Top amatuer talents use wood very extensively now in showcase settings and summer leagues. Add that the metal bats have been toned down…and its a bit easier than it used to be to project talent
The Rangers are paying the Phillies money on Harrison contract. NOT the other way around.
Aren’t Phils sending money to TX for Hamels contract??
Its possible that the Phillies are sending money for the rest of this season (teams often set budgets and not look to exceed a certain point during the season)
And then the Rangers are sending some money next year and the remaining years of Harrison’s deal as the Phillies weren’t comfortable saying Hamels needed 13m a year salary relief by sucking up all of Harrison’s deal.
No…Phils are sending Rangers $9 million AND taking Harrison’s $32 mil left on his contract, so TX will only be paying Hamels about $10 mil/year…a bargain!
In the end the Phillies, once LA seemingly committed to Latos, had little leverage over Texas other than to float teams like Giants, DBacks and Red Sox, all of whom are on the no trade list, to make it seem like there was a market.
I don’t blame Hamels, but the Giants and Red Sox would be very good destinations – arguably better than the Rangers.
Point is Amaro (and Montgomery) constantly tied the Phillies hands with these “loyalty” contracts and their convoluted vesting options and no trade lists…Monty is out and Ruin needs to go too .
Phillies are certainly a year late in dealing Hamels. But that’s water under the bridge.
exactly. leverage was gone to the point i thought they would be better off not trading him.
i cant complain about the quantity they got back, and money is no real concern here for the Phils- they have tons of money to spend if they can actually entice someone to sign here, and who cares if the owners have to spend some of their billions on tv contract money absorbing $ on contracts.
guess i still cant quite understand why Hamels would turn down the chance to be the
ace for the next few seasons for the Astros, where he could potentially be contending every year with a
I do think that given the circumstances…the new Phillies regime drive the price up as best as they could. Of course jump starting the rebuild atleast last year would have been optimal.
Anything mentioning Hamels and Houston is speculation on the part of reporters
win-win move here. solid prospects back to philly, and texas gets some cash relief, and holds onto gallo, chi chi, mazara.
No…..Texas is sending money. That’s what mlb reported. It’s Hamels dinkman and cash for Harrison and the 5 minor league’s
MLB.com is reporting that the Rangers GET cash considerations.
Did you read what you wrote? You contradicted yourself.
So they got the Rangers 4,5,6,17, and 29th prospects plus Harrison. I won’t sweat Diekman. Bullpen players are up and down every year. The Phillies are overloaded with projected 3-5 SP at this point, they’ll have to see who can shake out, and trade the others. You gotta add this years high draft pick in and most likely next years as well. Its looking up, but im pretty disgusted with the state of baseball and this ranking system. Seems like garbage. Like the housing money, Teams buying large mansions on possibly bounced checks. its insane to me that the market has changed that much that the proven track record mlb ace LH SP can’t get a teams 2 of top 3 unproven prospects. Rangers definitely won this deal. It always works out that way when trading prospects for proven players….
Matt Harrison was really good in 2011 and 2012. I don’t think they definitely won, considering they lost 3 top 100 prospects for a $25MM pitcher when they could have just waited to bid on Cueto or Price and not lost their prospects.
It is annoying how teams are coveting their top prospects, especially the ML ready kind. I have a feeling the Mets are not willing to part with any of their young SP not named Wheeler. The conservative unwillingness to win now will cost some of these teams, no doubt.
for me the risk off losing prospects, should not outweigh the risk of not winning the world series. The Mets probably could of got Tulo with Wheeler, Montero, and Conforto.
The Phillies moves need to be taken in consideration of their ability to draft and also sign players on the international market…and in a small sense on free agent signings. It’s one move in a large process
Agreed. Harrison is a sleeper player in this deal. His numbers “were” good. Im guessing they will try to get him healthy, showcase the heck out of him, and try to flip him for an additional 2/3 prospects at next years deadline, or after. Thats flexing their financial strength, if the gamble works out, genius, if not, it was worth a swing.
He’s not a sleeper, unfortunately. He just came back from spinal fusion surgery and looks horrible. He may not make a full comeback, but he was included just b/c of his contract. TX wanted to move the $32 mil owed him to offset Hamels’ salary, so it was really just the contract being moved…don’t expect much from Harrison.
My apologies then. Mlb tv reported it the other way around alittle bit ago
i will say, this is why the white sox should trade jose quintana. they need bats in that system in the worst way.
man Quintana is on a good contract. Quintana is a flat out horse. Definitely a piece that should stay hand and hand with Sale. The White Sox arent bad, I have no idea what happened the first few months. Id hold Shark and try to resign him, if not try for smaller pieces like Leake and Chen.
thats the point, they have erik johnson big league ready, trade quintana for an all bat package, they have holes almost everywhere on offense except center and left if you believe in melky. abreu is best suited at dh. that leaves 6 spots for bats…
phils paying hamels for the rest of the year and covering all of harrisons 34 mil. sheesh. pay almost half of hamels deal and this was all they got! lolz
“This is all they got”?
3 top 100 prospects, another top 15 organizational guy, a bullpen arm and a 5th starter with 3 starter upset in Harrison.
What were you expecting?
you gotta stop using top 100 prospects as the end all be all. harrison being a 5th starter for even 1 year out of his 3 is everything working out right for him! they are paying 43.5 mil of hamels deal basically as harrison was a sunk cost for the rangers. so yes i think they should have at least got a guy with an mvp ceiling in the deal. none of these “top 100” guys have very high ceilings. also they are all far away which makes busts more likely.
The only guys that aren’t likely to bust are position players in the top 20 overall and they still aren’t likely to be above average. It doesn’t sound like anybody was willing to give up the Seagers and Gallos of the world, so getting 3 very good prospects gives the Phillies a better chance that one of them sticks. This was a nice deal for Philadelphia and Texas alike.
“This is all they got?” is exactly right. You’re failing to compare what they got with what they were asking other teams for. Most teams would have more likely been onboard with “oh, we don’t have to give you ANY of our top 3 prospects? … and you’ll take one of our bad $30M contracts off our hand? and send us $10M to boot?!?”
Darvish/Hamels/Holland/Perez … $10M is a LOT to pay a guy that was going to have to compete for a starting role next year.
Rangers didn’t give up their top 3 prospects, but they did give up their number 4, 5, and 6 prospects, plus two more. Overall, a good haul for Philly. Can’t fault RAJ for a high asking price and/or waiting until he got what he wanted.
I’d say this is a win for both teams.
Cole Hamels is going to get pounded hard in the AL and the Rangers are going to deeply regret this day for a decade to come. Hopefully, so will the Phillies.
You’re just a ray of sunshine arent you?
He just spent 10 years pitching in one of the smallest parks in baseball where the ball jumps into the jetstream. Hamels will do just fine in the AL.
Texas is getting a first class professional athlete in Hamels.
If Texas has a pitching coach that can get thru to Diekman they have themselves a potential all star closer. The kid has Chris Sale type stuff but has no idea what he is doing.
And now I laugh how a bunch of the Phillies fans criticized the Red Sox and Dodgers not trading Seager/Urias/Mookie/Williams/Dimaggio/Ruth.
Hamels might have been worth a single player of that caliber…but it didn’t happen. Only way to judge that is if they would have gotten a single player of less potential talent as those you listed.
Phillies fan here who has watched Hamels career unfold. Its almost beyond belief and impossible to describe the lack of support Hamels and many Phillies pitchers have gotten the past 5-6 years.But in particular Hamels.
Hamels should have 50 more career wins than he has, and I think most Phillies fans would agree with that statement. he needed a change of scenery and wish him much better luck with Texas.
50 is a ridiculous statement- 25 would be pushing it.
Not at all.
When I get time I’ll verify. I can remember 2014 Hamels had 33 starts, 28 of them were Quality Starts of which Hamels got credit for only 8 wins. Early in his career he was plagued by blown losses.
50 extra potential wins is not a stretch if Hamels was on a different/better rounded team.
Not at all.
When I get time I’ll verify. I can remember 2014 Hamels had 33 starts, 28 of them were Quality Starts of which Hamels got credit for only 8 wins. Early in his career he was plagued by blown losses.
50 extra potential career W’s is not a stretch if Hamels was on a different/better rounded team.
You also have to factor in the very good Philly teams that got him extra “not as deserved” wins early in his career. It all balances out because for the majority of his career, Hamels was on one of the best teams in the league.
Hamels performance should have gotten him at least a 16 W per season avg. He’s averaged only 11 W’s per season.
80% of his career starts he’s gone 6 + IP.Staggering stat. Since 2010 74% quality starts a tad below Kershaw.
keep in mind he’s pitched 1/2 his games in a mickey mouse ball park. I cant imagine the success he would have had in Dodger Stadium,SD, etc… kershawesque.
I was hoping to see Joey Gallo in the deal just to see the bombs he would hit in the ballpark. And a Franco/Gallo 3/4 combo would have been deadly for years. Good deal for both clubs though.
I think the Astros had a good deal in place because the Phillies accepted it. Hamels used his NTC. Good Luck pitching in Arlington in that hot humid weather Hamels
would love to know what that might have been…Appel and Reed and an OF?
I’m not high on Appel…seems like maybe the Dodgers dropping out pulled a lever on some trading ability….but the Phils have heavily scouted the Rangers and got a mass of players.
I’ve lived in Houston…its hot and humid there as well regardless of the stadium
The Phils never accepted any other offers, BUT did ask him if he would accept a trade there when Houston became serious bidders and Hamels said, “No.” That should tell you a lot about players’ views towards Houston. And Dallas has les humidity than Houston, AND pitchers have come to love it there once they start pitching.
So the Phillies wanted either Swihart/Betts from the Sox earlier this year but ended up taking this package from the Rangers? Even after the graduation of Swihart and Erod, the sox still have 5-7 better prospects than the best guy they got from the Rangers.
All speculation
Nice trade for Rangers, because only plaayer i see with potential is Nick Williams.
Doesnt the lcatcher Alfaro have some upside? Stark said a scout told him Alfaro was the closest thing he’s seen to Pudge Rodriguez. Except that Alfaro had a stronger arm.
Thats some high praise, sounds a bit misguided though. I heard Stark say that he has about the same ceiling as Tommy Joseph, and he’s a first basemen now…. so I’m thinking bust. Thompson and Williams will be the players to watch, but ill sure as heck take a baby Pudge Rodriguez
They said Alfaro has a ton of power and an 80 grade cannon for an arm, but is still learning behind the plate. His ankle injury isn’t an issue in terms of his recovery, but it’s taking precious time away from him improving defensively. They also say he’s very athletic and if he ends up not sticking behind the plate, his bat and arm would still work well in a corner OF spot. Of course, he would be most valuable as a catcher, but he definitely has a ton of upside. Catching prospects are always a gamble. I’m happy with the return of Williams, Thompson, and Alfaro. The Phillies were never going to do much better than that for a 31 year old Cole. I’ll miss him and happy he ended up on an AL team I can still root for him on.
And he definitely has a higher ceiling than Joseph, even before he had all of these concussions.
Saw Alfaro in AA.You guys are getting the real deal.Disappointed to see him and Harrison go but looking forward to having a true ace in our rotation to take some pressure off of Darvish coming back from tj.I honestly am excited to see how both ends of this deal work out.
Alfaro has a ton of potential, the only problem is he is almost all potential at this point.
Wow, aren’t you a little troll.
What you’re forgetting is that Boston fans (many of whom didn’t want Hamels given the profile and cost) have had to deal with a good 9 months of Phillie fans insisting “Betts or Swihart or nothing, and we’re going to call you arrogant and stingy while we’re at it”. Predictably, the Hamels return was not as big as Phillie fans were demanding all along, and now Boston fans can finally say “see, YOU GUYS were the unreasonable ones”. Which is a fact.
In terms of prospect rankings, this deal might be the rough equivalent of, I don’t know, Owens + Johnson + Guerra…which is actually a lesser return that many Boston fans had suggested (Margot/Devers + Owens + one or two other strong pieces) to Phillie fans only to have them spat back with venom. So Boston fans were being reasonable all along. Shocker.
Meanwhile, Mr. Troll, if you had half a brain you’d realize that Boston’s failure this year has been based on the offense. It was supposed to be a top 3 offense in MLB, and instead is a below-average AL offense. That’s a HUGE drop. If the offense had been performing to expectation, the team would be right there in the race and would have been more proactive making adjustments to the rotation, WHICH WAS THE PLAN ALL ALONG. But since the offense actually kind of stinks and the team is in a bad place, it no longer is necessary to make the rotation better for this season.
Boston was not stingy with its prospects; it was wise to not give in to unreasonable demands, as were the Dodgers, many other teams rumored to be in on Hamels, and even the Rangers in the end. And yet trolls like you have been giving Boston, specifically, Boston, grief this whole time. Phillie fans were the smug ones, and guys like you are the real jerks who have turned these conversations unpleasant.
Hows Middlebrooks working out for you guys? The reason your offense was supposed to be ranked #3 and has way underperformed is because your prospects are not as precious as the media hyped them out to be. As a Phillies fan, I’m very pleased they didn’t trade him to boston. No offense to you, but I just don’t trust the Sox’s prospect projections. If it where me, I wouldn’t trust the Phillies prospect projections either. I feel better dealing with Texas, even better with houston or LA. Yet another example how this new “unproven prospects are all gold” way of life in the MLB is garbage for proven track record players.
Ha…. I think the real loser in this deal… is going to be the Dodgers… “if” they don’t get Price, now that he is available. If they do, they made the right choice… but if they don’t, this could easily blow up in there face. Say Price goes to Houston, or yanks, or somewhere else…. Dodgers don’t win it this year…. and lose Grienke in the offseason…. All that has a high probablity of happening. Kershaw, Grienke, Hamels … would have been really hard to beat, as long as Kershaw doesn’t do his annual playoff choke. Will see, only way out of this mess for the dodgers is to trade for price or win the ws with their current roster. Latos aint going to get it done imo.
Well the good news is for the Phillies… when their rebuild is about complete.. they can insist on trading our slop picks for proven mlb talent. It will be nice to be on the otherside of that deal, when the time comes. Maybe then people will wise up about how this trading system philosphy is plain garbage. The trader of the MLB proven player, takes on way too much risk compared the receiveing team of the proven player. Amazing how the steriod era has ruined this the trade market. In reality, a proven player of Hamels ability is worth a teams top prospect. top 2 of 3. I think thats more of a fair deal, 2 of a teams top mlb unproven prospects for the proven MLB player and his contract. maybe some money thrown in if its ridiculous. Just nuts that you can get a Player like Hamels without giving up top prospects, in the 1-3 range, or top 15 in all of baseball. Amazing.. baseball has gone down the crapper….. thanks millenniums 🙂 …. this is all your fault! (sarcasm)
As a a Phillies fan, I will be sorry to see Cole go. I have enjoyed watching him for many years and even named my son Cole, partly inspired by Hamels. I wish him the best in Texas and I think the Rangers fans will be very happy with what he will bring to the city and the team. Hopefully, he will help bring you a championship like he did here in Philly.
As far as the return, I am not especially optimistic that any of these prospects will pan out. If I had to put a number on it, I will say that the Rangers have about 90% chance of winning the trade, when all is said and done.
Pretty much every time a stud is traded for prospects, the team that acquires the stud will win. Especially in today’s game where the top-10 prospects are untouchable. The Adam Jones for Erik Bedard trades just don’t happen anymore.
The Phillies did not receive a can’t miss prospect, but got 3 very good prospects. Today, I think the deal is a win-win for both clubs. In 3 years, we can truly judge it.
This is the perfect opportunity to deal Gallardo. The Rangers are not likely to make the postseason this year and even if they did, I don’t think they are built to go deep. Take Gallardo, flip him for 2 quality prospects, and somewhat offset the haul they gave up to get Hamels.
The deal is looking like a little better haul now that there has been time to digest. I’ll be interested to see where these prospects rank next year in the top 100 at the revised midsession report. The phillies should look pretty on the list ….. They already have Nola,Franco, and Giles on the roster. Hopefully they can continue to progress, with possibly using Giles as a trading chip before then win again. With Biddle and Brown, mainly Biddle starting to turn it up, maybe they can contribute at some point before the end of this season. With what was in the system already Crawford,Rudolph, and Ortiz – they shoudl have some more top 100 players coming. Add these players, William,Alfaro, Thomspon, and this years draft pick for sucking, I’m hoping they will climb into the top 50 prospects. Then you gotta add Asher,erihkoff,Quinn,altherr, tocci, kilome,efflin,windle,Morgan (already up) the Nats prospect they got for paps — they should be able to rebuild for a long time. They will be like the flyers. Have a very young and upcoming defense that is cheap , aka phillies sp and bullpen. They will just need to workout the rest of the position players. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. By trading Hamels, it should allow them to grow like the cubs and Astros, and when they are ready to compete, not be outbid for FA due to luxury tax or deadline deals … If they rebuilt around Hamels that would have been the issue, it would be a faster rebuild, but you would be handcuffed in FA and deadline trades due to limited prospects that you can’t afford to trade and having to overbid for all the FA talent….. It’s like turning the clock back to the scot rolen,jimmy Rollins and randy wolf era…… But should be faster to get to the Rollins utley Howard’s Hamels era. Will see, I’m not excited about the value that aces hold anymore, but it’s the right move for the future that is no longer now, it’s pretty far back in the rearview at this point . Let’s go phillies….. (Best part of that era was the constant spanking they put on the mets in 07and 08 lol i bet wright still has nightmares about it!)
I believe this was a good trade for both teams as they received the players and met their goals. As a Phillies fan I knew this day would come and we needed to do this to rebuild our future. Texas is getting a class individual on and off the field(with his foundation) and Phillie fans wish him well.
Damn, looking back on this after the Giles and Miller Trades and Greinke signing, Phillies got fleeced ( at least for the time being, who knows how these prospects will turn out). Philly should have gotten a bunch more. I wonder what they would have gotten now…