After several days of reporting and speculation, right-hander Sonny Gray has officially been traded from the Yankees to the Reds and also agreed to a contract extension with Cincinnati. It’s a three-team deal that also involves the Mariners. Second base prospect Shed Long and a Competitive Balance Round A pick go from the Reds to the Yankees in exchange for Gray and left-hander Reiver Sanmartin. New York, in turn, has flipped Long directly to the Mariners in return for center field prospect Josh Stowers — the Mariners’ second-round pick in the 2018 draft.
As part of the trade, Gray has agreed to a new, three-year contract extension with the Reds that’ll span the 2020-22 seasons. He’ll earn $30.5MM over those three campaigns — that’s in addition to his $7.5MM salary for the 2019 season. Along with a $500K signing bonus, the deal reportedly promises $10MM in each of its three years and also comes with a $12MM club option for the 2023 season. There are $500K worth of incentives in each new season of the deal, with that value achievable in full at 190 innings pitched, and his annual salaries can grow based on performance escalators. Gray’s contract doesn’t contain a no-trade clause but stipulates that he be paid a $1MM assignment bonus each time he is traded.
Cincinnati emerged as a front-runner to land Gray last Friday, and his addition will be the third such pickup of the Reds’ offseason, joining lefty Alex Wood and fellow righty Tanner Roark. That trio will be added to a new-look Cincinnati rotation that’s also projected to include holdovers Luis Castillo and Anthony DeSclafani. It’s a group that should give the Reds a vastly more competitive outlook in 2019 while likely pushing names such as Robert Stephenson, Brandon Finnegan, Tyler Mahle, Jackson Stephens and others out of the Major League rotation mix and either into bullpen roles or back to the minors (Stephenson, it should be noted, is out of options).
A change of scenery for Gray, 29, only makes sense after he struggled profusely with the Yankees in 2018 — particularly when pitching at Yankee Stadium. Gray posted a ghastly 6.98 ERA at home in 2018 compared to a 3.17 ERA on the road, and while there’s surely more at play in those splits than the surface-level numbers exhibit, the contrast between the two numbers is unequivocally jarring.
The Reds quite likely found it encouraging that Gray’s velocity remained consistent with its previous levels (93.8 mph average fastball), that his swinging-strike rate remained north of 10 percent and that his ground-ball tendencies (50 percent) remained above the league average. Gray actually allowed home runs at his lowest rate since 2015 as well (0.97 HR/9; 13.3% HR/FB), despite pitching more than 40 percent of his innings at the homer-friendly Yankee Stadium. Of course, he’ll be moving to a similarly hitter-friendly setting in the form of Cincinnati’s Great American Ball Park, though the move to the National League should prove beneficial.
With the extension now in place, the trade of Gray differs starkly from Cincinnati’s acquisition of Wood and Roark, each of whom is a pure one-year rental. In essence, it’s a bet that the move into a lower-pressure setting could help Gray in a similar manner that Matt Harvey seemed to benefit following his own trade over from the Mets this past May. Gray, it should be noted, is not far removed from an extended run as a high-quality arm; the former No. 18 overall draft pick entered the 2018 season with a career 3.45 ERA in 770 1/3 innings, highlighted by an All-Star nod and a third-place Cy Young finish in 2015.
While it may be too much to expect for Gray to return to those lofty heights, he at the very least has the potential to help comprise a radically improved Reds rotation and gives the team some long-term stability a a time when many of the pitching prospects acquired over the course of Cincinnati’s rebuild have yet failed to pan out.
Cincinnati will also add a left-handed option to the middle levels of its farm system in the form of Sanmartin. While he wasn’t considered to be one of the organization’s top prospects, Sanmartin reached Double-A for the first time last season, at the age of 22, and pitched to an overall 2.81 ERA with a 58-to-4 K/BB ratio in 67 1/3 innings between Class-A, Class-A Advanced and Double-A. New York originally acquired Sanmartin out of the Rangers organization in a swap that sent righty Ronald Herrera to Texas.
Long, meanwhile, will head to the Mariners in a surprise development and give Seattle a prospect that is not far from big league readiness. The 23-year-old Long was a 12th-round pick by the Reds back in 2013 but has vastly outperformed that draft billing, rising to the Double-A ranks and hitting at a .261/.353/.412 clip with a dozen homers and 19 stolen bases this past season. Kiley McDaniel and Eric Longenhagen of Fangraphs ranked Long seventh among Reds farmhands just last month, noting that the converted catcher still has some defensive question marks at second base. That said, he has the bat to profile as a regular there if he can improve his glovework, and if not, he could move to an outfield corner.
Stowers, in turn, is several years further from the point where he’d need to be added to the 40-man roster in New York. He went a round or two higher in the draft than many expected on the heels of a strong finish to his college season at Louisville, and it seems that given New York’s quick acquisition of him, the Mariners weren’t the only ones who hoped to snag him in the draft’s early rounds. The Yankees will also acquire a pick that is currently slotted in at No. 36 overall but could move a bit, depending on the outcome of the remaining free agents who rejected qualifying offers (and the subsequent draft pick compensation attached to them). The No. 36 slot last season came with a $1.967MM slot value, meaning the Yankees have likely added another $2MM+ to their bonus pool in the 2019 draft.
A trade of Gray has been expected since early in the offseason since Yankees general manager Brian Cashman openly spoke about his desire to find a change of scenery for Gray. Today’s swap gives the Yankees a rotation consisting of Luis Severino, James Paxton, Masahiro Tanaka, J.A. Happ and CC Sabathia. With Gray no longer in the fold, the Yankees’ top depth options are Domingo German, Jonathan Loaisiga, Luis Cessa and Chance Adams. The organization likely hopes to have lefty Jordan Montgomery, who underwent Tommy John surgery early last summer, can return late in the 2019 season, though it certainly possesses ample rotation depth even if he’s shelved into the 2020 season.
The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal reported Friday that the Reds were closing in on a deal to acquire Gray. Fancred’s Jon Heyman tweeted over the weekend that Long and the draft pick would likely be involved in the deal, if completed. Rosenthal first added that the trade could hinge on an extension. ESPN’s Jeff Passan reported today that Gray had been traded, confirming Long’s inclusion and adding that he’d been flipped to Seattle for Stowers. Rosenthal reported the extension and the terms of Gray’s new contract, with Bob Nightengale of USA Today adding salary details. Bobby Nightengale Jr. of the Cincinnati Enquirer added Sanmartin’s inclusion in the swap. Heyman tweeted the trade assignment bonus.
Good for the Reds, a low pressure environment (albeit hitter’s park) for him to rebound
Great addition to the rotation. Their rotation stunk before. They will need more than gray to make it better. Maybe they could add Keuchel, Bucholz, or Miley.
They also added Alex Wood and Tanner Roarke
Rotation now includes
Wood
Gray
Castillo
Roarke
DeSclafani
Much improved
Wouldn’t mind adding Kuechel
Miley would be a downgrade
Formidable.
We will see how they fair in that park.
GABP is not the smallest outfield. Boston, Philly, Cleveland and Houston are smaller.
Boston is not smaller to right field in fact in Boston hitting a homer to right is one of the toughest parks in baseball. Boston is not even a good home run park but it it is a great doubles park with the wall in left.
I hope that was sarcastic. I don’t mean to be the one to rain on the parade here, but Gray is a 4.00+ ERA pitcher at this point in his career. Wood is a glass cannon, but strong when healthy. They added another 4.00 ERA 7 K/9 type of guy they already have. Their rotation is full of them. I’d hardly call it formidable. Keuchel at the top goes a LONG way to making this a good rotation. Right now I’d call it competitive in that division.
I’d say their rotation is vastly improved and solid….but formidable? I’d say that’s a bit strong. I’d become a Reds fan just to see Castillo pitch every 5 days and watch him improve into a top of the rotation pitcher – his stuff is impressive
think they are done with the pitching
Great for the Yankees. They didn’t need another season of Gray.
I’ve been trying to explain this to fans of teams outside the AL East. Gray’s numbers look much better then they were because Boone had a really, really short leash in the 2nd half with Gray. If you just go down the ER category, you could make the mistake of saying, “Well if you eliminate 6 or 7 games where he let up 6-7 runs, you have a guy who let up 3 ER or less in 15+ starts. Maybe he’s got something left.” But if you watched him, especially from late June on, you realize the injuries have finished this guy off as a premier starter. He can fill out the back of a rotation just fine, but I think the Reds severely overpaid, even if Long was blocked in the system.
No, they really didn’t. They traded a draft pick they get every year, and a guy in Long that was blocked by three players: Senzel, India and the incumbent, Scooter Gennett. Plus the minor league pitcher they got in addition to Gray was easily as valuable to them as the comp pick.
Gray is poised for a bounceback season.
They still could have used those pieces to make a different move and just spent a few more bucks for Keuchel, given how his market has developed (or rather not developed). Gray’s advanced metrics don’t point to a guy primed for a bounce back season. They point to a guy who has been a middle to back of the order rotation arm for a few seasons now. His bounce back year he benefited from a .269 BABIP which is 30 points below his average of .299 and much lower then his .319 in 2016 and .326 in 2018. The norm is around .320 which led to eras of 5.69 and 4.90.
He’s only 29 so there’s some hope but minus a drastic change in his delivery or an uptick in velocity, he is who he is. He walks too many guys as well with that BABIP and hes had problems with the long ball in 2016 as well so it’s not like Yankees Stadium is the only issue.
Yankee stadium is the hardest place to pitch in in baseball, and the Yankees defense was below average to say the least if your ground ball percentage is 50% like gray’s was this year you should not have era higher than 4, those short porches really hurt him, just look at Jared Hughes the last two years he struggled his last season in Milwaukee but in two season in Cincinnati he had been one of the best relievers with a very high ground ball percentage
NYS DOES have something to do with it but I think it was the pressure of pitching in NY that was more the cause. YS dimensions have nothing to do with the huge difference in his walk rate and hits allowed at home vs the road. I just think he was too nervous which is odd for a vet like him.
Unless you’re inside his head, you really have no idea if it was nerves.
Nah it was the ballpark since he pitched well on the road as a Yankee
i don’t have to be in his head. common sense says that a stadium downbut effect the number of non- homers you allow nor does it induce more walks and fewer strikeouts. thus my assertion that it was also mental difficulties in play. he allowed fewer homers AND significantly less hits and walks away from YS.
i don’t have to be in his head. common sense says that a stadium does not effect the number of non- homers you allow nor does it induce more walks and fewer strikeouts. thus my assertion that it was also mental difficulties in play. he allowed fewer homers AND significantly less hits and walks away from YS.
Uh, Cincinnati could give Yankee Stadium a run for its money.
GABP – 1.395 for HR
Yankee Stadium – 1.166 for HR
His HR/FB was actually higher in Oakland in 2016. I watched Gray personally quite a bit and the porches weren’t the problem. 2018 wasn’t an anomaly. Look at the last 3 seasons: baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/sonny-gray-54…
There are some clear patterns emerging.
As I’ve said before, usually picture Aces, Hall of Famers granted extension windows or have agreed upon trade contigent on an extension.
But, I’m just happy it’s finally over.
and he goes to another ballpark where he’ll get lit up
Gray’s extension is three-years $30.25M
Including his 2019 salary, it is essentially a four-year, 37.75M deal covering 2019-2022 with a $12M team option for 2023.
Dollars are more than I expected but his stats away from the Bronx include several hitters parks. Deal is really what teams like the Reds have to make. Overpay 20 to 25% to lock a player in. If Gray thought the same money would be there from a playoff team, would he have signed? That said, it’s nice to see a player ink an old fashioned extension . I’ll be rooting for him next year.
I sure wouldn’t give up a 1st rd. pick and Shed Long to get Sonny Gray at 4/$37.75, especially when they are the 4th or 5th best team in the division right now.
The contract could max out at 5 years $50M, if Reds exercise the 2023 12M club option.
It wasn’t a first round pick, it was a CBA pick. Shed Long is behind Gennett and Senzel, and India (their 1st rdr in 18) can also play second, plus they’ve got a couple of SS prospects in the teens that may also end up at 2B. That’s why they traded Jeter Downs previously as well. The Reds starting pitching has been abysmal the last few years. Guess what, it’s pretty darn solid now. Meanwhile, the lineup is stacked and the BP is above average.
Its really not a bad extension. I have a much bigger problem with giving up talent for him when Keuchel is still out there on the market for just money. Why trade a piece you can move for another piece when you can go out and sign a more consistent version of the same pitcher with a few less injuries under his belt? I’m not saying they’d have gotten Dallas at 4/37.75 and all things are equal. This deal only makes sense to me if its followed up by a Dallas Keuchel signing to give them a real chance at the division.
I’m not one of these bandwagon folks that thinks the Cubs are going to be the same or worse this year. I still believe in Yu to make a comeback. No longer a Cy Young level guy, but if he can give the Cubs 100-150 innings of 4.00 ERA ball, that’s an improvement. Lester is a rock. Bryant isn’t going to hit 13 home runs again. Schwarber showed he’s starting to improve. This Cubs team is projected way lower then I think they will actually come in and with something to prove, I expect they will come out fired up in 2019. Their poor start last year cost them a lot of time.
If they can move on from Addison Russell and make a deal for some help up the middle by the deadline, I still think the Cubs are the team to beat with the Brewers nipping at their heals. The Reds are Cards still have moves to make to get really into that conversation, even after Goldy/Gray.
Keuchel probably did not want to sign with the Reds.
I think given his market, he’s not turning down teams. If he is he’s a fool because he’s in no position to do so. See his tweet showing he’s clearly frustrated with the lack of interest in him as a front of the rotation arm. I get it pitchers don’t want to go to Cincinnati just like Colorado. But I doubt Keuchel isn’t answering the Reds calls if for nothing but leverage.
Thank god this is over
You should have saved this comment for Harper and Machado.
Exactly. This thing was over in a heartbeat, relatively speaking.
Only, for some, it might be …
“Oh God, this is over.”
The machado/Harper saga was an expected drag from the get go. This sonny gray stuff was not. This has been the longest drawn out deal for a midnrotation starter I’ve ever seen
I think Harper/Machado saga is linked to Sonny saga. After moving Gray, the Yanks are almost 80 million below luxury tax! Bullpen and rotation are set, just need more hitting and beautiful 3B glove. I like Harper for a Yankee jersey, a lot?
“I like Harper for a Yankee jersey, a lot?”
You and me are going to get along great.
That means, agree. Harper will be a Yankee.
You have to believe. I believe.
The Yankees aren’t 80 million below the Luxury Tax there current payroll looks like 190 million without Sonny Gray. That puts them 16 million short of the luxury tax.
$80 million under? What drugs are you in? They are technically OVER the LT even AFTER they traded Gray. Go check out Cots baseball contracts. When you factor player benefits, the entire 40 man roster etc, (which DOES count for LT purposes mind you), they are about 6-7 million over. Depending on how Severinos arbitration case goes.
Do you like copious amounts of dollars and a 10 year commitment to Bryce Harper a lot? Considering his resume over the past two seasons? Lack of playoff success (.211BA, .321OBP) and is three years removed from his best season, and has never played a full 162 game season? Go ahead! Though I’m sure some of his shortcomings would be covered up by the superior lineup around him. If he signed with the Yankees today he’d be the 4th best player on the team, making best player money.
Thank goodness!
FINALLY !!!
Even though he stunk with the Yankees, I do wish Sonny the best in Cinci.
From what the rumors are, it appears the Yankees got back at least one nice minor league piece. The team gave up a lot to get Gray. Others try to downplay the original cost but those three chips’ value then was limited only due to injuries. All three were thought then to be MLB level talent. Can’t win every trade but it sounds like Cashman did another solid job.
Dewey, how did Cashman do a solid job here?
Cashman wins again..everyone knew he had to get rid of Gray..he still got a balance pick and a nice prospect
The Reds got the best on this deal
Competitive balance picks are so valuable. They allow teams to get much more talented players they normally wouldn’t get further down in the draft.
Facts: this is how the Yanks ended up with Tex, instead of Trout.
That’s not why they’re valuable. It allows teams the ability to go over slot on a player in he high 20s and get a player who might be a top 5-10 player.
It’s exactly why teams are unwilling to sign free agents in previous years when you had to give up the first round choice. Took away too much of their allocated money in the draft.
That absolutely is not correct. Myth that’s been busted for years, yet idiots keep repeating it. I bet you also forward chain mails.
Even if it were true, Tex got the Yankees a WS in ’09, soooooooo
what’s a myth? the idea that a team with i’ts own original 1st round pick might gamble on a tough to sign guy with the intent of of paying him way over slot? is that a “myth”? i’ts happened dozens of times before. it’s exactly what the Pirstes did when they gambled ablnd went overslot on Josh Bell in the 2nd rnd.
The myth that signing Tex cost NY Trout.
The Yankees weren’t going to draft Trout anyway. Of course everyone makes all the right picks after-the-fact.
Mike Trout was the 25th pick of the draft. You think 24 teams passed on him because the Yankees signed Tex?
All 3 of the pieces in the trade for Gray are still considered MLB pieces. All three were top 100 prospects entering the 2017 season.
Fowler crushed AAA last season and spent part of the season in the majors before the knee injury.
Mateo was the #1 overall prospect a few years ago. He has 80 speed and in 2017 and 2018 he has starting driving the ball to the gaps with more authority.
Kaprelian was a great prospect for the Yankees before the injury. He was sitting 95-96 and touching 98-99 mph with 3 plus pitches before the injury. He has #2 starter potential and even if he never regains all of stuff he is still a MLB pitcher.
Cash didn’t get a prospect back that is as good as any of those 3. We can hope that the #36 draft pick turns into someone great.
You are way too high on all 3.
Kaprelian still hasn’t returned to pitching, Fowler hasn’t shown anything at the MLB level and got demoted by the A’s (plenty of guys can hit in AAA and never graduate to being good MLB players), and Mateo had a terrible year last year and his stock has dropped big time in response.
They actually gave up almost nothing. The relief pitcher they got looks to be equivalent to the comp pick. Shed Long is blocked by three players.
That’s a class act… applause to you …despite the fact had we had a pitcher who spoiled his Depends every time he walked on the mound in Yankee Stadium, cost us a ton of distraction and embarrassment for the team in a serious run for the division, a waste of millions of dollars, cost us 3 prospects that we could had spent elsewhere and got absolutely nothing back in return because you stunk up the place…Glad at least Cashman threw you under the bus…happy returns
Thanks for not much Sonny. Best of luck in Cincy. Hope it treats you better than the Bronx
It’s hard to fault him, he didn’t choose to come to New York, and you can’t say he wasn’t trying his best. I wish him success in Cincinnati. He seemed like a good guy.
Yes and hope you treat Cincy better then you did the Yankees because you stunk
I’m sorry you’re going through a hard time right now rjsuitor. I will hope whatever you are going through gets better.
Steal for the yanks if Long is included in package
I am not sure a 5″8″ second baseman is a “steal” but he’s a decent prospect. I think people over value prospects. He’s got no place to play in Cincinnati either.
Gray had no place in the Yankees rotation
Andy… Jose Altuve says hello.
Jose Ramirez is waving hi and wants to know if Andy wants to play Mario Cart.
While Altuve and Ramirez are playing Mario Cart maybe the three of us can go cherry picking.
Joe Morgan was 5’8″…js
He still is 5’8”.
6 ft when standing on his HOF plaque and check book from all of those autograph signing sessions.
Joe owned a Coors distributorship, several Wendy’s restaurants and a Honda dealership. I don’t think autograph signing is how he grew his wealth.
called a joke. i didn’t consider his 2017 income tax filings.
Speaking from experience, he’s probably 5’7” now.
I dunno…we shrink with age…lol
Altuve 2
Altuve is 5’6”
in case you didn’t get the memo Yankees traded Long to Seattle he was here all of five minutes so wave bye bye Long your long gone…good job while you were here
Long hit .261 average and .353 obp with 12 homeruns in 126 games at AA while playing at age 22 now is age 23 and they say he can’t field. I could care less about Shed Long, now the draft pick is a different thing altogether because it’s 36th overall.
*couldn’t care less. Sorry. Pet peeve
Maybe he cares just a little bit, in which case he could care less.
Yankees already traded Long 5 minutes after they got him
Flipping Long for Stowers is a big win for NYY. Long is a bad defensive 2B while Stowers was solid in his first year.
Let’s be honest, if you found out that all of the players were then sent back to their original teams, the comments on TR would still say “whelp, the Yanks won this one!”
if they extended him long isnt enough
The fact an extension was in place has little to do with the Yanks getting any more than what they received. More likely, the fact they have him for more than 1 year probably made the Reds feel more comfortable giving up the pick. They didn’t get a discount on Gray at all. Despite Lary Lynn getting 3/$30 there was no guarantee what Gray would command as a FA next year. The fact that it became part of the deal bodes well for Cashman’s ability. Red’s couldn’t traded for him and then worked out an extension on their own. It’s not like Gray had a no trade to leverage an extension.
Meant the Red’s “could’ve” …..down votes for a fact? Can you really down vote a fact?
It shows to Cashman’s ability that Gray would only sign the extension with someone other than NYY. if he was signed before the trade, he would have had more value. Gray’s upside is higher than Lynn’s.
No he wouldn’t have. That’s impossible for you to know that he would. A team may prefer to see what gray has for 1/8 v guaranteeing an unknown quantity at this point nearly 40 million bucks. And what would that say about cashmans ability anyway? If you’re sonny gray and know for a fact you are going to be traded what incentive do you have to sign a long term extension to then be traded anywhere? Why would you give the Yankees the ability to trade you anywhere they please and force yourself to be. There the next 4 years without knowing your destination?
how could Gray sigh an extension with a team that made it clear… declared.. that he wouldn’t be a Yankee in 2019?
i love Cashman. im just stating that the Yanks held no leverage as to whether or not Gray signed the extension. they’re was no no-trade that had to be approved to initiate the trade thus Gray had no say. Reds could’ve made the trade and extend him in ST. My guess is that Gray was more than happy to get that security vs the pressure to have a great walk season as he headed into FA for the first time next season. . Reds wanted to secure Gray inorder to sweeten the pot perhaps (comp pic) abd Cash sat in his, what i can only imagine to be a massive throne chair, while his Sphynx sat quietly while he rubbed his hands together in a dastardly fashion as he ponders the roster machinations soon to come.
I didn’t downvote but don’t act like everything you said is great here. Sure, the reds could’ve traded for sonny and tried to extend him. Just like they did with Matt Harvey…… They got the guanrantee of a deal going this route which has considerable value if that is your ultimate goal.
im not knocking what the Reds did im simply saying that Cashman doesn’t deserve credit for it as he had no leverage either way as to whether Gray would sign. Yeezus…
I wasn’t even replying to you pal
Long was the entire package, and Mateo is way better than Long.
Lol and now they flipped Long (50 grade) for Stowers (45)
It’s almost like the Yankees have their own grades for these players.
They do. Smart teams do.
Stowers doesn’t have to be put on the 40 man. Long would have been
As this is not a congeniality contest, fleecers ‘gonna fleece.
Exactly
Exactly to erawk’s comment. This is painful on a cell.
Not sure why everyone is on Long. He’s 5’8, won’t stick at 2B, and is 23 and hasn’t played above AA. If he can’t play 2b, is he really anything special?
who cares he is Seattle’s problem now
A-goat, apparently you saw a diff report on Long than I did.
Reds are definitely trying to put something together.
Agreed on this. I applaud the effort.
Well played Cash. Turns a bum pitcher with 1 year left into a useful asset or two because no pitchers are willing to go pitch in Cincinnati. As a Red Sox fan I cringe pretty much every time the Yankees make a trade with the reds – cashman always fleeces them lol
That Chapman trade still hurts.
Reds didnt really have a choice with Chapman.
He was bound to get suspended the only question was for how long. Given his impending free agency and possibility he could have been given a year long suspension reds were put in a pretty bad corner considering everything. It was really trade him now with the punishment weighing down his value and scaring off suitors or lose him for nothing in FA if he was indeed suspended the entire year.
That’s a fair point. I’d just counter that the Yankees were smart enough to realize it was worth the risk to hold on to arguably the best closer in baseball at the time. In the end the Reds got exactly what the worst case scenario was. Nothing.
Well they could have let the situation play out and traded him for a substantially better return after it was over…so there’s that.
Sure they had a choice. And him getting a longer suspension would have been a blessing in disguise because it would have pushed his free agency back, as players do not gain service time while on the restricted list.
Well, Chapman is a scumbag so don’t feel too bad.
You mean the ONE trade. Lol, they were forced to move him because the owner wanted Chapman’s bad personal life away from the Reds. But, yes, they did get fleeced by the circumstances
A bum pitcher? He’ll probably be the Reds opening day starter. And they extended him 3 years. Gray is a good pitcher. He’s young. He’ll do fine for them. And it only cost them a #7 prospect in an average system. A 2B that doesn’t field well. He’ll fit right in with the rest of the Yankee infield.
Now that Gray is away from Yankee Stadium he’s definitely going to rebound. If he becomes anything like he once was, then I’m glad Sonny is in the NL
Melchez, you got it all basically right. Except the Reds system is top 5 by many metrics.
Average system?
The Reds system is ranked around 6th in MLB.
Shed Long was the 7th best prospect on the Reds… he’s the 8th best for the Mariners. The Mariners have a better system than the Reds. The Mariners were ranked dead last at season’s end.
The Mariners were ranked dead last at seasons end last year, not this year. Shed Long would have been their #1 prospect last year since he’s a 50 FV player and they had nobody above 45 FV. They’ve gotten better through trades, but the Reds have a consensus top 10 system, and that’s after graduating two of their top 10 last year and trading away two more.
So Kaprelian, Mateo and Fowler for Shed Long gets a “well played”?
Long who is now Stowers and also a supp pick. Dustin Fowler was a -.9 WAR, and Kap and Mateo may never reach the majors. So yes, Cash did well here.
You could also say the exact same thing about the two pieces he got….
You can’t say cash did will here. You could’ve moved those three prospects for another player last season. Sure, their values all took a hit this year but they had value when you dealt them away. He’s done well salvaging something from Gray but you certainly can’t say he’s done well overall right now.
Well, you’re ignoring the year and a half they got from Gray in addition to the first round pick they got back. Not saying Gray performed well, but considering how Gray failed to perform in NYY they were able to make up most of the original return. Stowers/comp pick isn’t too far from Mateo/Fowler, and then there’s the 1.5 years of Gray for Kap… maybe not the greatest trade overall, but considering how badly Gray performed, it still probably won’t come back to bite the Yankees
Sonny Gray for Joey Votto and Scooter Gennett!
Not a chance. The Reds will also have to include their Pete Rose stadium HOF plaque that never got put up. Yankees need another for their left field shrine.
ha
Throw in Suarez and the Yankees will even send Ellsbury with him.
downvoted
Improved rotation. Wood Roark Gray good trade candidates if they perform well. Reds could have a massive fire sale in pitching Puig gennett.
As a Pirates fan, this really sucks. Watching the other 4 teams in the NL Central make improvements while the Pirates get Jordan Lyles. Every team in the NLC has a payroll over $110mil. The Pirates are sitting at $70mil.
Every other team in baseball, exception the Marlins, invests in a product to draw fans. The Pirates expect fans to show up then MAYBE they’ll invest in the product, but probably not.
As a fellow pirate fan, this off-season has been so sad.
….just this off-season?
I can’t think of a good off-season ever from them.
Not every other team in baseball is investing in a product. TOR and Balt seem pretty happy fighting it out for last place in the NL East and saving some money. Seattle seems to be pushing toward a couple years of cutting payroll and tanking. Arizona is losing pieces left and right and not willing to pony up any cash, the Tigers are making no real attempt to compete and all they seem to be doing is shopping Castellanos. Royals don’t seem to have any interest in improving from outside the system…. It’s becoming much more of an issue in MLB with teams following the examples of the Astros and Cubs and being willing to tank some seasons in order to improve in the long run.
Seattle isn’t tanking or cutting payroll (much). They’re actually eating considerable salary this year and next so that they’ll a strong crop of graduating prospects for 2021 and considerable payroll flexibility just in time for an excellent free agent class.
Meanwhile, they have Kikuchi, Gonzales, Haniger, Santana, Smith, and enough talent in between to keep the team respectable.
They’re eating some payroll now to drop it severely when it all comes off the books after the 2020 season. While they are not “tanking” to the point of some of the other teams, I don’t see what they are doing as honestly making an attempt to put the best product on the field that they could and really make a run at anything. Tanking may be a bit too severe of a word for what they are doing, but it definitely seems like they are preparing for 3-4 years out at the expense of the current team.
You guys are definitely getting the worst end of the pineapple. The NL decided to get super competitive this off-season, and I suspect PIT will be cannon fodder as the result.
Pirates invested in Archer though?
I get your overall point, there’s really no reason why they don’t step up and sign Harper, Machado and Kimbrel, it would mean the billionaire team owners would have to get a new 15 bedroom mansion instead of a 20 bedroom one.
Yes, the Pirates seemingly invested in Archer. They also have Jordan Lyles penciled in as the 5th starter and Erik Gonzalez as the starting shortstop. When your payroll is sitting at $70mil and you feel you are trying to contend, how do you not look to upgrade those positions?
@S4
do you have anything to say about the sport that doesn’t have to do with Owners spending money, or are you a one trick pony?
…Another way of looking at it was they dumped Cole for nothing, then replaced him by trading house for Archer.
Bi-lateral move, only Cole is about 10x better and pirates got busted AAAA guys for him, and traded blue chips for Mr. 5 ERA Chris Archer.
Remember when Pirate fans said this last year? What happened they had a decent record at the break? Fans cried and complained still didn’t show up and it forced the team to make a bad trade for Archer. Don’t blame the owner blame yourself or other fans.
Nobody can force a team to make a bad trade. Plus, the jury is still out on that trade.
Well first of all iverbure obviously beats puppies..
But so far it looks like Bucs gave up a top/half SP and #1 prospect for a James McDonald clone.
The Cole trade is just a joke.
Even if Archer bounces back, the main issue is Pirates have no direction.
Huntington absolutely should have been fired at seasons end for that reason.
My A’s haven’t made many moves, the Profar deal is about the only thing of substance but yet the team is weaker than last season
I’m more concerned about what CIN is giving up….if it’s more than Long and a pick, it’s a bad deal
The pick is really what doesn’t make sense they have gotten Taylor trammell and jeter downs in that pick. Right now trammell is a top prospect and jeter downs is one of the top second base prospects in the new Mlb rankings
No. 36 pick by recent seasons:
2018, Gunnar Hoglund, HS RHP, PIT, didn’t sign.
2017, Brian Miller, OF North Carolina, Miami. Marlins No. 12 prospect.
2016, Jordan Sheffield, RHP Vanderbilt, LAD. Dodgers No. 27 prospect.
2015, Ryan Mountcastle, HS SS, BAL. Orioles No. 2 prospect.
2014, Blake Anderson, HS C, MIA. Hasn’t played since 2017. Has done nothing.
2013, Eric Jagielo, 3B Notre Dame, NYY Roster filler with Marlins organization.
2012, Stephen Piscotty, OF Stanford, STL.. Very good starting OF in Oakland.
2011, Henry Owens, HS LHP, BOS. Cup of coffee SP. Roster filler with Arizona.
2010, Bruce Brentz, OF MTSU, BOS. OF version of Henry Owens.
It’s a lottery.as you see from the wide variance of success from those guys. The part that hurts arguably as bad or worse with that is the signing bonus allotment depletion from trading the pick. That now harms how much cash you have for the other guys.
wow that is the dumbest way of valuing the 36th pick. why would upply only look at players taken EXACTLY at that slot as opposed to picked taken 35th and AFTER?????
you point out Henry Owens who went at #36 but you don’t mention that they passed on Bradley Jr, Fulmer, Snell and Story who were all taken in the next 16 picks (40, 44, 45 and 52)? just weird way of looking at the value of a pick.
What was he supposed to do post every CBA or 2nd rd pick there was? If you don’t understand the potential player you can grab with a CBA pick then you’re on the wrong site
Nickycav –
Dumb? Big turtle spent a sizable amount of time showing the # 36 picks for the last decade, AND THEIR PROGRESS, and you lazily complain that he/she should’ve scoured all of the rest of the picks in each draft to determine if teams overlooked a player? Really?
When did Mike Piazza
One year doesn’t make a career. Sonny will be fine going forward, good pickup for the Reds.
Thank heavens this is truly over now. The Gray clouds are gone and the sky is sunny once more
If the sky is Sonny in Cinci, and the NYY still lack pitching, it will be interesting to see how you feel about the Gray clouds that are gone.
You think MadBum would solidify them?
There may be some who gripe and groan should Gray start to pitch well, but I won’t be one of them. Yankee Stadium simply wasn’t a fit for him, and I understand that. He’s best suited elsewhere. I wish him luck in Cincinnati
“The Gray clouds are gone and the sky is sunny once more”
… Best stock up on SPF 50.
did the Yankees trade the Redsox out of the East?
OUR LONG NATIONAL NIGHTMARE IS OVER.
Yeah, not quite.
Ah shoot, I should have saved this for when the Nationals sign Harper…
the only trade they need to make is one for Madison Bumgarner.
Madbum? I suppose you’d like Snydergaard and Kershaw to NYY as well?
I admire the team the Yankees have put together, but c’mon.
So many see NYY as, “The best team that money can buy”.
It’s as if there’s but one MLB team and the others are just Yankee farm teams.
That hasn’t won since Jerry Springer was live…
like the twins who havent won anything in a generation?
AT LEAST THE YANKEES INVEST IN THEIR TEAM
sour grapes much
At least the Twins fans don’t cry nor act like they are God’s gift to baseball fan’s like most stanky fans do.
~Dodger Fan
Don’t the Yankees invest LESS of a percentage of their profits in their team than just about every other team?
Just sayin…
As a Yankee fan, I do appreciate it when the brass get “The best team that money can buy.” Every fan wants to win, no?
Was the 2017 Wild Card game going through your head as you were replying?
The day we all agree is the day it stops being fun.
Took less to get him than trading with Cleveland. Maybe they still do that as well?
Thanks to MLBTR for starting a new thread on this.
Some Cincinnati Chili pushed it over the top.
Their inclusion of 2 packs of oyster crackers makes the return kinda meh
About time this trade took almost as long as the Cano trade. I don’t understand what Cincy is doing this offseason and why they are giving up so much just to extend Gray they can do that at any time.
I;ll take a wild guess that they’re trying to field a competitive team.
Perfectly said. And thanks for the Twins memory with your username. He was a much better pitcher than his W/L record indicates.
We’re dating ourselves LOL. Rick loved the game and spent years on the sand lots; even played in senior league as a closer.
So 4th place then they aren’t cracking the top three in the division
Only lock for top three in the Central is the Cubs. At least Reds put a team on the field that’s competitive and worth watching. You do that as a GM and anything can happen regarding the WC.
I don’t understand why you don’t see more trades with extension windows. They got burned by Harvey and wanted to hang on to Sonny Gray. In two years they can always trade him, as he won’t make crazy money.
I wouldn’t leave reds out of the wild card talk at this point
I wouldn’t include them in the wildcard talk at this point
I’m just glad that Rosenthal, Heyman and Passan all got credit on the trade. God forbid what would happen if one of them was omitted from the story line, because after all, that is the important part of the trade.
It’s so corny when they do that.
when you don’t do your own reporting, it responsible to report your sources.
Good for Sonny. . . Hopefully he can turn it Around. ! ! !
Three year extension for thirty mil? Guess Gray was spooked by the free agent market given what’s happened the last two offseason.
Shed Long, that’s it? All this waiting and the return was Rob Refsnyder 2.0, really?! LOL. I hope to hear: More to come. Can I get a draft pick?
They did get a draft pick
Yeah, I think they had the original story still up when I commented that. I’m glad the Yankees got something else.
U got a draft pick
I hope it works anything is better than what we had,the Reds are trying to bring the fans back and stay within their means hard to do
Cashman is a wizard. He really got more value for Gray now than what he ended up trading for him in 2017.
Absolute lies. Kapreilian, Mateo and Fowler are massively, massively more value than Shed Long and a draft pick.
I think he was being sarcastic.
Apparently not!
They WERE. Do you not know what “ended up” means. Mateo and Fowler have been awful and Kaperlian hasn’t thrown a pitch. Gray has been awful and somehow got back the Reds CB pick. I could care less about Long.
Fowler made MLB, he was not “awful” Mateo is still a 50 grade, top 100ish prospect who had an off year and will repeat AAA (happens a lot). Kaprelian also in the A’s top 10 but I’d take him over Shed Long or Josh Stowers. Also, why are you “ending” players careers after 1 season? Stop it. They’re still young prospects.
Cashman doesn’t know what he’s doing, he only does well when Jeter gifts him Marlins for nothing. I repeat, Cashman is the opposite of a “wizard”. He’s barely average at the job. He has unlimited money but the Yanks have 1 title in 19 years. Stop acting like he’s some genius, he’s the opposite. Beane made him look like a fool.
It’s a bit early to use the term “ended up”. So far as the Yanks are concerned it was a good deal, as all three wouldn’t have even seen AA for awhile, assuming that two could even p;lay, but it’s WAY too early to make an assessment, one way or the other.
If he had unlimited money Manny & Bryce would be in pinstripes
… and I’m sure your stance that Jeter gifts Cashman has infinetly more validity than anything else; marinated in reality as it is
btw: what’s the 2019 flavor of Yankee Haterade?
Im not a Yankees fan or A’s fan but you are clearly biased with that. The fact you think the A’s still got a good haul for Gray is comical. They ended up with by far the worst of the 4 big pitchers traded at the 2017 deadlines. Tigers, Rangers, White Sox all got nice pieces. A’s got junk so no Beane did not make him look like a fool. Did Cashman not end up with more out of Chapman than what he traded too lol? Eric Jagelio and Rookie Davis is better than Gleyber Torres in your eyes
Wait, I thought Yankees’ fans overvalue Yankees’ prospects? Now Yankees’ haters overvalue former Yankees’ prospects?
Mateo hit .230/.280/.353 in AA as a 23 year old in AAA. with 139K in 470 AB. He’s always going to be highly touted on raw skill because of his 80 speed, but he has not demonstrated at any level an ability to get on base in a relevant sample size.
And Fowler had a -0.9 WAR. That’s the definition of awful.
James Kaprelian has 29.1 innings since professional debut in 2015 and hasn’t thrown a pitch since 2016 and you’re putting stock in him, why? His MO is not being healthy, until that changes, he has zero value.
Because that draft pick and Long are so much more valuable than Fowler, Mateo, and Kapreilian.
You can’t keep saying he’s the same GM as he was 10 years ago and you can’t say all he does is spend money,
FACTS
Bird, Torres, Andujar, Sanchez, Judge, Severino, Green, Betances, Montgomery and Holder all debuted as Yankees.
Didi was acquired in a trade for Shawn Green. Hicks for JR Murphy, Voit for Shreve and Gio Gallegos.
After trading off a ton of prospects for mlb pieces (Happ, Drury, Stanton, PaxtonBritton) or because they couldn’t protect them from the Rule 5 it’s been said the Yanks are now a middle of the road farm but with lots of talent in the lower levels.
That’s an impressive job of mlb talent acquisition that aside from Stanton, any GM can do.
WAR needs 2.3 seasons of data to stabilize defense, so please can it with this nonsense. The fact that Fowler made it back to MLB means he’s not “awful”.
Mateo is going to bounce back, and Kaprelian, no one can tell. But the fact that Oakland has a good farm and all these were always in the top 10 and still are (except Fowler) means now you are saying MLB.com’s prospect ratings are wrong, because they still have Mateo+Kap at 50.
Thank you, next.
All that and still no titles, Cashman is trash, man. Theo would have had them on a 10-in-a-row streak, Beane would too.
I love how Yankees homers think anyone bringing up how bad Cashman is at GMing is “hating” – its facts, and the proof is your lack of winning. Cashman simply does not know how to build a WS team. Facts.
Dude your computer is stuck in 2017. Look at the 2018 rankings. Mateo and Kap are not near the top 100. The A’s farm is also top heavy too so the idea that them being top 10 is not saying much. Also the top prospects are being update this month and they both should slip further in the top 30 team ranks. Your just spitting out drivel to fit your narrative “Mateo will bounce back”. Oh gee you said so its bound to happen
dude…. the yankees traded two guys to the Ms …in the Paxton deal that weren’t even in their top 20 at the time and were instantly 6 and 11 for the Ms. You telling me what their org ranking is means nothing. By no means should anyone say those prospects traded to Oak are garbage but as of today, they’re value has NOT increased since the trade. Im not going to argue facts. it’s not debatable.
Say what you want about any GM. There job is not to WINa world series. it’s to build a team capable of winning a WS. Cashman put a 100 win team on the field and the TEAM failed to do their jobs.
Also, Cashman doesn’t get the luxury of failing several years and collecting multiple high picks because the team is rebuilding. his rebuilding was astonishingly quick and he created a scenario where he had multiple 4 win players (judge, severino, didi, hicks) earning way under market value. You simply can’t compare his work environment to that of the Pirates, As. Padres where the pressure to win isn’t nearly the same nor as constant.
Yeah Cashman has no clue…just look at the sorry state of the hapless Yankee team, which was largely built without the financial strength at his disposal. Idiot Yankee bias comment. How many titles does Beane have on his resume?
as an A’s fan I think I am qualified to make my opinion on this.
Fowler was not “awful” he was pathetic, he can’t hit for average or get on base, he said he refuses to change his style. He was thrown out 4 of 10 attempts at a stolen base and his fielding he put up a -9 DRS and -15 UZR/150, the only player worse at playing a position is Andujar.
Kap didn’t pitch, that is 2 years since he has and may never pitch, he has fallen out our top 10 now. Mateo cratered in AAA, Nashville is a hitters graveyard but the PCL is not impossible yet Mateo managed a .280 OBP to go with a low average. The rest of his game leaves much to be desired.
As I see it the Yankees got more value out of Gray than we have out of 3 defective prospects.
As a non-A’s fan, I think I am qualified to make my opinion on this.
Fowler was 23 and coming back from a pretty serious injury last year. He has a .289/.321/.458 slash in over 2,000 minor league plate appearances. He has a .314/.344/.532 slash in 552 AAA plate appearances, so I think it’s safe to say he CAN hit for average and he CAN get on base.
Again, as a non-A’s fan, my unbiased opinion is he probably deserves more than 200 major league at-bats post-injury before completely writing him off, especially when he put up a pretty dominant .341/.364/.520 slash in 229 AAA at-bats last year.
He has to change his approach, hitting in AAA is a bad indicator for success. Hitting in the bigs is adapt or die
Honestly speaking, you couldn’t possibly know who that pick might turn into. Yanks now have their own pick at #30 and the Reds at #36. The Reds drafted Trammel at #35 a couple of drafts ago. Yanks need an influx of young players to try and restock the farm. 1st round picks are one of the best ways to do it.
Agreed, thank you for a new post on this. Good for the reds, they picked up a good rotation piece that, if everything falls into place could easily be a number 2/3 starter. Now it looks like the extension is good, I wonder what additional piece is in this trade outside of Long and a draft pick.
Reds still need an ace more than CF. Tony Sipp for the pen. If they want to keep Senzel, trade Scooter and Kemp (plus the 7 million they are getting from LA) and a second tier prospect for Kluber.
Tribe can use Scooter, but it will take a lot more than Kemp and a 2nd tier for an ace.
Agreed. Kluber is worth more than that
I agree it could take a little more but Kemp and Gennett are not chump change. Both were All Stars last season. Indians need help in outfield with the loss of Brantley and Scooter would step in at 2b.
Tribe needs someone that’s controllable for a few years for Kluber and that’s not Kemp or Scooter. Kemp at 34 is short term on that team and Scooter is a FA next year. who’s going to command a lot more than Clev will pay.
I’ve thought the Reds could trade Scooter, Kemp (+ the 7 million), Iglesias, India and a lower level prospect for Kluber & Kipnis..It would instantly upgrade the Indians bullpen and 2nd base for their win now mentality plus give them 2 additional prospects including a top 50 while also saving them around 6 million dollars. For the reds they slide Senzel into 2B and have Kipnis as a super utility player this year and buy out his option next year
So wait, the Indians are going to trade one of the best pitchers in baseball, for two very expensive players on one year contracts? Did I get that right? I’m a Reds fan and think that’s ridiculous.
That Sanmartin guy has a career BB/SO of 28/177 including 4/58 in 2018 DAMN
If all the reports are true,I like the CBP for the Yanks.
Gray took the guaranteed money to go from one bandbox to another. Physics explain why so many HRs are hit in tiny stadiums, not pressure.
I wish him well but don’t see a huge improvement on the horizon.
He only allowed 1.0 HR/9 last year and had a 4.17 FIP. I see this as a low risk potential high reward move for the Reds.
I’ve liked this idea more and more as time as passed. I still believe you are going to see more and more starters going 4-5 innings tops, which are the types of starters the Reds have acquired without giving up their top prospects. If I were to grade their offseason to this point I would give them a solid B…
Regardless of how Gray performs, the Reds might really have something in Sanmartin.
Time will tell. Sanmartin has only pitched 1 game in AA everything else has been in A to low A.
I’m a Red Sox fan but thats a good move for the Yanks he wasn’t gonna help
Mariners haven’t been active in two weeks so it makes sense that they joined in on this trade
The Reds have suddenly became contenders this offseason. They are going to be a force. Added good pitching and a load of offense to an already good offensive team. Not going to be pushovers this year for sure. This is going to be a fun team to watch.
Now a 3rd team pops up in play…finally entertainment!
The Reds got a prospect back that is likely at least the equivalent of their Comp A pick. So basically this was Gray for Long straight up. If Gray can bounce back, this seems like a steal for the Reds.
hiflew the comp pick is the most valuable part of the deal. they got the number 36 pick Aaron judge was a 32nd pick, so if you dont have a clue and you clearly do not, say nothing
among those who have been drafted at number 36 are Johnny Bench and Randy Johnson
so you clearly have no clue about the hell youre talking about
the Competitive balance pick was the most valuable part of the deal you clown. it also increases the yankees draft money significantly
Yes, but what’s the success rate of guys turning into even average players in the second round? 15 percent tops?
Okay. Now since you have cherry-picked the best guys, go back and look at how many #36 picks did NOT become Johnny Bench and Randy Johnson and see that the rate for a minimal successful MLB career (career WAR over 5.0) is somewhere around 7% or so. In fact, the only #36 pick besides Johnson and Bench to have more than 8.0 career WAR is Erik Hanson. So, 3 out of 54 picks became major leaguers above the level of Sonny Gray’s career 12.6 WAR. I’d take that gamble.
BTW, just a tip even though you don’t deserve good advice. Stop personally insulting the person you are arguing with. It really makes your argument look weak and quite frankly it makes you look very unintelligent.
can we agree that having the pick is the point and making the right choice is a whole other point? i mean there are plenty of stars drafted after the 35th pick.
There might be “plenty of stars” drafted after the 35th pick, but there are about 100 times more non-stars drafted after the 35th pick than stars. My whole point is that the chances of ANY pick becoming even a serviceable major league player are far less than Sonny Gray having a successful 2019 season.
Hey M’s fans any info on the prospect being sent to us
He’s a 45 grade (Long is 50) and the M’s #10 prospect (MLB.com)on a weak farm. Cashman really did terrible here.
Cashman free’d up some payroll, got a draft pick and got rid of someone who wasn’t working out here. Not to mention he isn’t great and had one year of control. I think he did ok here
Is there any scenario where you think he didn’t do a good job? Stop being a homer, the guy objectively stinks at GMing – if you have unlimited resources and can’t win, you aren’t good. Cashman sucks.
youre an idiot strike four the 36th pick and a very recent 2nd rounder is a fine return, the yakees liked josh stowers last year but the mariners got him before the yankees could
Stowers, 21, hit .336 (74×220) with 72 runs, 14 doubles, 4 triples, 9 home runs, 60 RBI, 52 walks, 36 stolen bases, a .477 on-base percentage and a .559 slugging percentage over 62 games in his recently-completed junior season with the Cardinals. Among NCAA Division-I leaders this season, the 6-foot, 205-pound outfielder ranked T3rd in stolen bases, T5th in runs and T13th in walks. The right-handed hitter hit safely in 50 of 62 games this season with Louisville, including 19 multi-hit games.
Stowers entered the 2018 season ranked 35th on Baseball America’s Top 50 Junior Prospects list. Following the 2018 season, he was named 1st-Team All-ACC. He led the ACC in stolen bases this season, while also ranking 2nd in on-base percentage, T5th in RBI and 8th in batting.
if you have no clue about a player say nothing
He’s made mistakes but has done an amazing job over the last 5 years. Teams like the pirates that have struggled for 30 years wish they had him as their GM. The money helps but as we have seen with Anaheim it doesn’t mean everything
The Drury trade. That was a mistake. He gave up Widenor and Solak who both had better years over the good 2017 season they had. i felt drury was unnecessary but in hindsight, they didn’t think Torres and Andujar were ready. i thought they should’ve gone with thrn out the gate.
He is one of those “clueless” yankee fans that thing FV rating is be all and end all. I will take Stower over 50 Mateo’s any day of the week.
I don’t know when you posted your comment but the Yanks flipped Long for the M’s 2018 2nd round pick. He was their 9th overall prospect (which means nothing since org rankings are subjective). But they flipped Gray and his $7.5 mil due into the #36th overall pick in 2019 and Josh Stowers the 54th overall pick from 2018. I’ll take that. The fact they don’t have to be added to the 40 man is a plus too since we have had to trade a lot of prospects we couldn’t protect this past year.
strike four, you truly are an idiot arent you. The yankees scouted Stowers last year and wanted him but the Marners got hm first.t he only reason they mariners were willing to trade him was that they got Kelenic from my mets
if you were any more uninformed your head would implode
Lol you should proofread your post before insulting people for being uneducated.
Randia, you are spot on!
Why an outfield prospects? Such a log jam of outfielders. Unless they are going to package him up for another trade.
Stowers also had no place on the Mariners in the future, but Shed does. I wouldn’t call it a great trade for the Mariners but it’s doesn’t make much sense for the Yankees.
At this point, M’s mainly concerned about organizational depth.
@ichiro51 @24thekid
Why wouldn’t it make sense for the Yanks? Stowers is probably 3 years away. Right now Hicks could walk after 2019 and in LF next year we have Frazier (maybe) and Gardner. Who knows what can happen in 3 years. Positional depth is where the Yanks lack the most in the minors. And if there is a legit log jam but he turns himself into a top prospect then you can always package him for some other need. Zero reason to worry about where he’ll play at this point. Just get the best talent you can.
dont worry south beach even as a met fan, I know this is a fine deal
Yankee haters are gonna hate
they have no clue who Josh Stowers is. this kid is elite in center who despite being quite tall can fly . because of Kelenic he had little future in seattle but he’s a very nice prospect
strike four is a moron,
Can you provide one source that says he’s even close to elite in centerfield?
Don’t even bother priggs they’re gonna sit here and bash you for posting an actual scouting report and then make claims about how excellent he is based on god only knows what. No factual basis behind it. Not that a guy can’t beat his early career scouting report but that’s the info you have on the guy. That’s info from a ML scout/prospect evaluator who is actually informed. It’s jusr funny to see. You’ll see plenty of Yankees fans claim they gave nothing but Sheffield for Paxton. When dom Thompson Williams has roughly the same shot as stowers of being a productive big leaguer.
stowers does not have to be added to the 40-man roster but Long would have to be….there’s your sense…
Fangraphs pegs him at a +35 value prospect. That’s on a 20-80 scale.
Sowers was a recent 2nd round pick who is a natural center fielder, who is highly regarded. but he wasdisplaced by Jarred Kelenic who they got in the Cano deal, not an elite prospect but a very young and controllable one
No 40-man roster spot needed for Stowers. That and the Yankees get under the next Luxury tax tier. Reasonable return IMO.
The reasonable return would’ve just traded with the Reds for Long and a pick. This is a real head scratcher, because Long is the better prospect, and was way closer to helping than this prospect. Horrible trade for all the posturing by Cashman..WTF
Yanks have a couple of 2B already. Torres and DJ. What makes you say Long is better than Stowers? Based off of what because it seems that a lot of commentors were sour on Long.
I think we are all thinking this over wayyyyyyy too much. Who knows what Long, Stowers or that 36th overall will be yet? Too soon to declare a true winner but as of now, both teams got what they wanted. Reds have Gray and the Yanks have an influx of new talent they don’t have to protect immediately.
Baring the signing of a major FA Yanks will have the 30th and 36th pick this upcoming draft. That’s a win.
Is there anything the Yankees do that you don’t try and justify? Long is graded out the better prospect, they would have gotten a similar pick from the Reds, Long is a LH bat with some pop, Long has decent speed, Long is closer to contributing, Long would be way better depth than Wade or Tulo.
Im not sure why you think I don’t point out Yankee failures? My life isnt to toute the virtues of ANY Gm especially one making 20x what i make each year. Whether it was his choice or someone above, the Ellsbury signing, Arod extension, CC extension, were among deals i didn’t like.
But these debates over which is the better prospect, Long or Stowers are stupid. Long COULD be great… or he could never be more than a utility player. Stowers could be a bust… or he could be a future Brett Gardner who was drafted in the 5th round and posted .284./.377/.376 with speed, virtually no power but a great walk/k rate.
I guarantee you I have NO ideas what either will do. But im sure… positive… that you probably don’t either. On paper, the Yankees traded a pitcher coming off a horrible year, painted the narrative he would be much better away from NY and despite claims that NO team would give up a top 10 organization pick they ended up with the Ms #9 prospect and a 1st rnd pick (35th overall). Stowers was JUST drafted last year and he had a good solid rookie season in low A.
yeah… that’s what the yankees are looking for….. depth behind Torres. Maybe they just feel that Stowers has a higher ceiling or fills an organizational need? I don’t have a crystal ball nor do i have access to their player evaluations. Neither do you. But on paper, this is a sound move. Put your yean in a position for things to happen. Plus long would require a 40 man spot. Seeing as how we lost several prospects to the Rule 5 last year who knows if Long would’ve been protected later this year for the next draft? can we move on?
And the plot thickens… Dub, dun, dunnnnn….
Yankees still need another arm. CC is not giving them 150 IP. I think Gio Gonzalez would be a good fit.
Why not ? He’s averaged 162 innings a season for the last 4 seasons.
Ok forget 4 years the last 2 years he had 148 & 153. So it is trending down from 167 & 173 the 2 years prior to that. Add in his knee has another year worth of damage, he is another year older and he is coming off heart surgery I believe anything he give would be appreciated but not counted on.
Also Tanaka’s elbow has another year of wear & tear & Paxton has never been poster child of health. Bottom line they need another arm capable of Starting
Cashman never loses a trade. Dude is money.
He lost SO hard on this trade what drugs are you on??
He’s being waggish…
Lol Gray was unpitchable for the Yankees. They got more compensation than what the qualified offer would have ( which the yankees would never have given to Gray next offseason ). Its clear now how clueless you are. Your stuck in 2015 with this idea of Gray
Cashman has made so many stupid moves with the assets he has available..
He rode on Gene Michael’s built three-peat roster. After that one win in last 18 years.
Most overrated GM in baseball.
….by a million miles.
Beane would have had the Yankees winning 15 titles in a row by now. Theo too.
Beane is supremly overrated. As much credit as he gets for his analytics what has he won? Zippo. Meanwhile, other small market teams have made it to the WS and some have won (Padres,Royals, Marlins and Rays). Overrated. At least the Yanks have 1 in the last 10 years and the way Cashman has transformed the FO strategy and have struck a balance between home-grown, trades and FA.
The Royals won on a 135 million payroll, the largest A’s payroll in 25 years was 90 on average it is 82. The marlins were loaded with top drafts being a new team as were the devil rays. KC made no post seasons in 28 years
No that would be Epstein
Why flip Long for Stowers?
40-man consideration. Long had to be put on, Stowers doesn’t.
that 40 man roster spot will probably go to ottavino
My guess is because long is near mlb ready and blocked. So flip him for a prospect that’s similar is grade, different position, and needs a lot more time until he’s mlb ready. Just a guess
Maybe they just like Stowers better? They just traded with the M’s for Paxton so I’m sure they’re familiar with the system. Besides, Long would’ve been blocked by Torres and DJ. Yanks are short on OF prospects.
Nobody’s prospect rankings are uniform. They might see a higher ceiling and positional need on stowers than they do shed long. Long is by no means a can’t miss prospect and the Yankees have seemed to acquire plenty of MIF guys this offseason. Stowers was a 2nd round pick last year who performed well in his first showing. Just because a guy isn’t ranked up high now doesn’t mean he couldn’t be on that path. Hell, Shed Long would’ve been a marginal prospect after his rookie year.
why direct that towards me?
What’s the dollar figure on that extension?
The $ for the extension is there, but not the actual contract!!!
Oakland and Cincy turned Cashman out, lol man Cashman sucks at GMing
Considering the team he has build I greatly disagree with you. One year of mediocre gray isn’t going to get much and that’s reality
Unlimited money and the Yankees have 1 title in 19 years – nope, he’s not good at GMing.
Funny how you word that. One could say 1 in the last 10 years or 6 in the last 23 years. Why does it matter? Winning a WS is not up to the GM but the teams on the field and the teams on the field have won at least 95 games and made the post-season in 11 of the last 19 seasons. If those teams choke in the playoffs, or are simply bested by a better team (Sox in 2018) then sorry, that’s not on the GM. Only in NY would be dare say the engineer of a 95-100 win team didn’t do his job. Thankfully, George Steinbrenner (RIP) isn’t calling the shots on GM decisions.
Sucks so hard a GMing yet he turned a rebuild around in a season and a half
Without a number 1 draft pick too AND has made amazing trades for guys like hicks, green and di di for starters. Not to mention he got Stanton for basically nothing but some money when he saw the opportunity
not hard to turn a rebuild around when you can buy whoever you want. Wouldn’t really call it a “rebuild” either
Sanchez Judge severino torres And andujar we’re not the product of “spending tons of money”. It was smart international scouting, drafting and trading
What would you call it?
Exactly. Yankees fans are beyond the most delusional people in American sports fandom. 1 title in the last 19 years.
Ahhhh but they didn’t BUY anyone which is the whole point stu……I meant dude. Are you not even paying attention? What mega $100 + mil deal have they handed out the last 5 years other than Ellsbury?
Rebuild? Good one
2016 wasn’t a rebuild. They reloaded. HUGE difference. That is what every team that expects to contend in a given year but doesn’t does.
All GMs make bad trades. He’s pulled off a lot more great ones though. Cashman has become a different GM as FO has changed philosophy. That’s not easy. He’s now a much better, more creative GM in the 2nd half of his tenure.
Exactly
And the Yankees still don’t win.
They need to fire that overrated clown. He has unlimited resources and can’t get them over the line — thats on him.
So he puts together a 100 win team and it’s his fault the players under-perform?
Nah your just an anti Yankees lunatic. Its not hard to see even from a neutral fan. Cashman has done a fantastic job. In 2016 they were supposed to be in for a rebuild and he pushed all the right buttons to make them a contender. Got amazing hauls for Chapman, McCann and Miller. Stanton had very little value because of his trade demands and contract. Marlins were backed into a corner no matter where he went. But sure he has no clue what he is doing.
His what is just an anti Yankees lunatic?
Because building a 100-win team with a young core that is home-grown is the sign of an inept GM…
Flipping Long makes me curious… seems like he’s the better prospect than the one from the M’s… Then again the yanks do have Gleybar for another 5 seasons at the very least.
Long requires a 40 man spot which NYY doesn’t have, whereas Stowers doesn’t
What would be the point of the Yankees acquiring an OF prospect in a position where they have depth in? I know they also have a log jam in the infield with DJ and Tulo added but it seems as if they would need more infield help than outfield as far as a long term solution. unless they are using this to flip Stowers with a package of other players to acquire a 1B or pitcher. Any thoughts? Steve Adams there is no thoughts in this part of the trade. I know it’s early but any assumption or thoughts as to why?
Stowers hasn’t even cracked full season ball yet. Despite their corner OF depth, their CF depth is a bunch of lower level lottery tix
Stanton Judge and the unfortunate Jacoby are all long term. We have Clint and Gardner as well. You need playing time for Both Gardner and Frazier. Gardner does not need rest. Their infield seems a bit more uncertain with Andujar being in trade rumors, 1B not having stability, DiDi injured, Gary Sanchez Fielding abilities being highly criticized.
Pillsbury is gone in two years thankfully
Shed long is a 2B only prospect. If that doesn’t work out perhaps corner outfielder. None of that you rambled on about Sanchez/Bird Etc. would’ve benefited him in anyway. Stowers is in low A ball and won’t see the major leaguers until Gardy and Ells are likely retired or if not long gone from NY. I don’t understand any point to your post. They certainly don’t need a backup 2B. He’s not a utility infielder and the guy they got is years off. He very well could bust but they certainly didn’t need a guy like shed long.
Love this for Seattle. Their system has plenty of outfielders anyway, Long is the better prospect, and he’s closer to contributing. If they can deal Gordon he should see the bigs early in 2019.
Of course the mariners are involved.
Of course Dipoto would find a way to get in this trade.
I’m pretty sure all GM’s phone him before finalizing any trade and ask if he wants to be involved.
Not a fan of this. Stowers isn’t a good enough hitter to play a corner OF spot and isn’t a good enough fielder for CF. I don’t see anything particularly special about him. I’d rather have kept Long, and I thought that return was a bit underwhelming itself.
Exactly
the reason must be that he has a longer window before he has to be on the 40.
This proves to me the silly bias ppl have towards a team they dislike. How do you judge Stowers, a 2018 draft pick as less of a prospect than Long?
Stowers: A- 58 games: .260/.380/410 w/ 20 SB in 24 attempts and a 37/57 BB/K line
Long-AA-122 games: .261/.353/.412 w/ 12 hrs and a 19/26 SB and 57/123 BB/K line
Just as I can say Long might improve his K rate I can also say Stowers, who has 1 year of professional play vs Long who’s in his 6th season might have lots of room to improve too.
Add to the fact that Long would need to be added to the 40 man roster and his blocked at 2b makes it even more understandable that he was traded. No where did I hear he wasn’t a good enough fielder to stay at CF nor did I hear his bat was too bad to play a corner OF spot.
Please stop fabricating. You’re NOT a mlb scout or GM. Stop looking at numbers only and QB couching trades for minor league players. What a loser.
Fact…the Yanks traded awar a SP that most every non-Yankee fan said was washed and total garbage and brought back the #36 overall pick for the upcoming draft and the 54th overall pick from 2018. Not mad at all.
“No where did I hear he wasn’t a good enough fielder to stay at CF nor did I hear his bat was too bad to play a corner OF spot.”
“Scouts give Stowers solid-to-plus grades for his speed, yet there’s mixed opinion on whether he can stick in center field at the next level. It’s essential that he does so to profile as a regular, because he doesn’t have the power to profile on a corner. Stowers’ below-average arm will push him to left field if he can’t stay in center.”
Straight out of MLB.com’s profile… Fangraphs doesn’t have rantings up for him, but they have him as a 35+ grade right now, which I’m assuming means they don’t see him sticking in CF or having the bat for a corner spot. The 36th pick is what made this an OK trade for the Yankees.
Good trade for the reds, nice extra pickup with the project minor league arm also. Nice flip for the M’s getting a infielder that very well could be major league ready this year if not he still has time to season in the minors. Not exactly the best trade for the yanks but nice draft pick and flip for a OF prospect that clearly still needs time. Depending on the gray that shows up, I would say pretty fair trade all around
Honestly I’m happy with this trade sinc eheadcase Gray is gone, 7.5 mill off the books and we got a draft pick. Anything extra is gravy to me. Also a 40 man roster situation was taken care of
Who really cares about saving money when they won’t use it.
They have spent plenty of money in case you haven’t noticed. They get flack for being “cheap” on the big two free agents and yet nobody has signed them yet
Signing Gardner and CC back aren’t exactly great moves.
A one year deal is never a bad thing. Plus Gardner isn’t an everyday player and CC is probably the best #5 starter in baseball
Yeah because those are the only two FA signings they made. We’ll just ignore the $36 mil for Happ, the $27 mil for Ottavino, the $40 mil for Britton and the $24 mil for LeMahlieu.
$52 mil in added salary. But yeah….let’s focus on the backup 4th OF and 5th starter. Smh.
DiPoto must have ran out of Suboxone. Jonesing to make a move. As soon as I saw a third team was involved, figured it had to be the Mariners.
Look its corny how he operates generally speaking but Dipoto turned a 45 grade 4th OF prospect into a 50 grade everyday 2B, so he killed it with that one.
Hmmmm that’s what your take on this is? Showers a 4th outfielder based on one minor league season? He was projected initially as a first round pick.
Now comes the Andujar and stowers for arenado and Jon Gray trade…. wait for it…..
That’s not out of the question.
Good for Gray, he gets his wish of playing in front of 24 people on a last place team. But hey, no pressure.
Why do you make it sound as if Gray asked for a trade?
Extension is for 3 years 30.5 million according to Rosenthal
FWIW, Gray’s career vs. NL: 19 G, 115.2 IP, 3.42 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, 101 Ks. Reds fans would take that all day and twice on Sunday.
Seems like the Mariners are getting the short end of the stick… they must really like Shed Long (or not be sold of Stowers… Stowers seems to be the better prospect (younger and just drafted, not to mention better statistical year – albeit at A vs AA) But Long hasn’t really shown all that much at any level… remains to be seen – maybe Dipito sees something we don’t yet! haha
Shed Long is a loss to the Reds? Some funny stuff there. Reds have all the run production and D they need now and in the intermediate future other than CF at the moment. Add in better IF talent in Senzel and India on standby. Pitching, pitching, pitching – that is the issue with this team. Gray is getting his old college pitching coach back in Johnson. A 4.00 ERA in GABP is possible with him once he gets fine tuned a bit. Johnson turned the Brewers staff around and likely knows he can do the same in Cincy and especially with Gray.
Yankees return worse than originally reported (Long, lesser prospect, 36th pick), but still a good trade for them nonetheless. I was hoping them getting Long meant that they would finally flip Cessa to make room on the 40 man, but getting Stowers to increase future OF depth and no pressure to move anyone off the 40 man isnt the worst case scenario. Yankees did give up a decent pitching prospect, although they have a bunch of those in the lower minors.
Reds did ok with this trade. They really got to hope Gray bounces back with this extension. They still got a decent prospect out of it.
Mariners did Dipoto things. Since its a prospect swap it will be a while before we find out how well they did in this trade. On paper it seems as if Long is the better hitter but Stowers seems to have a good bit of potential. Chances are the Yankees really liked Stowers going into last years draft but werent able to get him.
NYY running things brilliantly.
Yeah brilliant,We’ll see if they get out of the first round this time,brilliant is winning the WS,don’t see it Sherlock
I guess if that’s your only way of looking at it.
I’m more about extending contention windows.
Good, Jerry is still alive
Now for the machado, Harper, kluber/bauer and realmuto sagas to end
DUH alert…Sanmartin got traded for Sanmartin? Is he a player to be named later? For both teams?
Thanks for the head of lettuce and hot dogs. Lemme know when the Yankees make some real moves.
Are you NOT…ENTERTAINED!!!!!!
ah, good work dipoto. Id take long over stowers any day.
Though there are questions about Long’s selectiveness and defense, he’s a LHH with pop who plays second base, a position Seattle desperately needed in the upp[er=minors as a feasible replacement for Gordon in the near future. Long fits the bill and Stowers was expendable as Seattle has Bishop, Lewis, and Rodriguez as future RHH outfielders.
I see this as a win for all three teams for now.
Did Dipoto beg to be part of this 3 way just for the sake of it?
Well, you certainly can’t say the Reds aren’t trying this offseason, at least.
Refsnyder and Long. Future hall of famers.
Yankee fans no longer think highly of Long, since he was already traded.
Yankees fans live in your head rent free. So much so that you conjure up libel to make yourself feel better.
Long is the same player as he was yesterday. Good bat, clunky glove (due to transitioning from Catcher to 2B so late).
Uh… I am a Yankee fan. Dolt.
This is what the Padres should have done with Freddy Galvis. Make the trade contingent on an extension.
Dipoto has made so many trades he needed a Shed for some extra storage space.
…
Gray could rebound as he gets out of the North East pressure cooker and no DH. I thought the Yankees would have received a better prospect. The Reds are a better team today but without any luck they aren’t going to challenge for the playoffs.
Man cashman turns everything to gold lately. Even there 40man crunch trades have mostly turned into quality prospects. Sanmartin, Juan Then, Mike King, JP Sears, and I know I’m forgetting a few? Oh ya, Luis Gil is another one.
Getting a prospect like Stowers,who has starting CF type potential down the road, as well as a juicy top 40pick in the draft for Gray and Sanmartin is awesome. Stowers has speed, athletic ability, a very patient approach, profiles as a guy that should hit 15homers a yr when said and done. Now we have Frazier, Florial, and Stowers as OF prospects for the next couple yrs , in case we lose Hicks , or Stanton goes to more DH..etc Also Gardys prob in his last yr with yanks, and Stowers adds some base stealing potential which we don’t have a ton of,
Got a nice little trio of OF prospects in the A ball level rite up to Scranton(frazier), on top of some good ones further dow in lower ranks like Cabello and Perriera. Essentially ur just building levels of prospects , which u hope if one fails, th next one is close to being ready for a shot and once Frazier, Florial, and Stowers get ther shots , guys like Perriera and Cabello hopefully are at the upper levels…etc Obvioius.y u hope Frazier and Florial end up as the next studs if need be, and great if they do, but i not,ur setting u legit guys to follow them if need be. And worst case used as trade later on.
Thanks for your perspective. This helped me feel a little better on this trade. I still feel like Cash did not do great in this trade, and it seemed more like a message was being sent devaluing gray.