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Looking At Pirates’ Past Trades That Are Starting To Pay Off

By Darragh McDonald | April 24, 2023 at 11:59pm CDT

The Pirates are off to an excellent start to begin the 2023 season, currently sporting a record of 16-7 with a run differential of +25. It’s too early to simply assume that they are quite this good, especially since many of their games have come against teams that aren’t expected to be competitive, like the Reds and the Rockies. But after a couple of 100-loss seasons and an even worse winning percentage in the shortened 2020 season, it’s an encouraging development, even if it’s not wholly sustainable.

As with any rebuilding club, the talent on the roster has been acquired in various ways. Some were brought into the organization with high draft picks, like Ke’Bryan Hayes and Mitch Keller. There are former amateur free agents, like Rodolfo Castro and Ji Hwan Bae. There’s also some veterans on modest free agent deals, like Carlos Santana, Rich Hill and Vince Velasquez. But a sizable portion of the roster was acquired via trade, as is often the case with rebuilding clubs, who use the playbook of sending established players away for prospects.

Some of these trades have been on the minor side, bringing in role players like Connor Joe or Mark Mathias. There have also been a few trades that haven’t worked out, such as the Clay Holmes deal, but here are some that have had a significant impact on the current roster. Also, just as a quick side note before launching into this, general manager Neal Huntington was fired in October of 2019. While most of the moves listed below were completed by his successor, Ben Cherington, the credit on the first few goes to the previous regime.

  • July 31, 2017: Dodgers acquire Tony Watson for Oneil Cruz and Angel German.

Watson had spent his entire career with the Pirates up until this point, having been drafted by them and making it to the majors by 2011. He had posted consistently solid results, never finishing a season with his ERA above 4.00, even coming in below 2.00 in both 2014 and 2015. In the 2017 season, he was in his final campaign of control before becoming a free agent. The Pirates made the playoffs in three straight years from 2013 to 2015 but fell below .500 in the two subsequent seasons. That made it a fairly logical move to flip an impending free agent reliever who wasn’t going to be a qualifying offer candidate.

German was a relief prospect who never amounted to much, topping out at Double-A in 2019. He reached free agency and signed a minor league deal with the Rays in 2020 but was released before pitching for them. But landing Cruz is in this deal looks like it will work out quite well for the Bucs. He’s currently on the 60-day injured list due to an ankle injury that required surgery, but he could be back around August. There are concerns about his strikeout rates and shortstop defense, but he has some of the best tools in the league, consistently featuring among the leaders in terms of exit velocities, arm strength and sprint speed. His eventual value will be determined by how much he refines the rougher edges in his game, but he clearly has incredible talent and should impact the club in some way. He’s not slated for free agency until after the 2028 campaign.

  • January 13, 2018: Astros acquire Gerrit Cole for Joe Musgrove, Michael Feliz, Colin Moran and Jason Martin

After two straight disappointing seasons, the Pirates clearly decided to lean in to their rebuild prior to 2018, making two significant trades within a few days of each other. The first one saw them deal Cole, who had two years of control remaining, to Houston. In return, they got four younger players, the most significant of whom was Musgrove. At the time of the trade, there were some questions about whether he was better suited to be a starter or a reliever. The Bucs gave him the chance to prove himself as a capable rotation member, which worked out for both parties. He posted a 4.23 ERA in 325 1/3 innings over three seasons in Pittsburgh, showing enough potential to establish his bona fides as a starter. That gave him enough trade value to get flipped to his hometown Padres, allowing the Pirates to add more young talent, which we will get to below.

  • January 15, 2018: Giants acquire Andrew McCutchen and cash for Kyle Crick, Bryan Reynolds and international bonus pool space.

As if the Cole trade wasn’t enough of a sign that the rebuild was on, the Pirates took down the Jolly Roger and waved a white flag when they traded McCutchen just two days later. He had been an iconic player for the franchise for many years, helping them return to contention after two decades of losing, earning the 2013 National League Most Valuable Player award in the process. He had signed an extension with the club going into 2012, a deal that ran through 2017 with a club option for 2018. He had fallen off from his MVP heights but the $14.5MM option price was still a bargain, so the Pirates made the easy decision to pick that up instead of paying the $1MM buyout. However, he would eventually play that season in San Francisco.

While the trade of a face-of-the-franchise player like McCutchen was undoubtedly frustrating for the fan base, it’s paying off now. Crick had some decent results at times for the Pirates but was ultimately released in 2021. The real coup of the deal is Reynolds, who has emerged as a new face-of-the-franchise player for Pittsburgh. He’s hit 79 home runs in his career and is currently sitting on a batting line of .282/.359/.484. He’s set for free agency after 2025, which has made him the constant subject of rumors, both the trade and extension variety. To date, both paths are still open, making it unclear if Reynolds will be part of the next playoff club in Pittsburgh or an extra bullet added to the bottom of this list.

  • January 27, 2020: Diamondbacks acquire Starling Marte and cash for Liover Peguero, Brennan Malone and international spending money.

The Pirates managed to sneak above .500 in 2018 but had a dismal season after that, going 69-93 in 2019, making it unsurprising that the selloff continued. Marte had previously signed an extension with the Bucs that ran through 2019 but had two affordable option years, meaning he still had a couple of years of control at the time of this trade. But with contention in that time frame seeming unlikely, he was sent to the desert.

Malone is now 22 years old and has yet to climb higher than Class-A in the minors. Injuries and the pandemic have limited him to fewer than 30 professional innings. Peguero in on the 40-man roster and made his MLB debut last year, though he got into just a single game. His prospect rank has faded in recent years, but he was still considered to be among the 10 best in the system as of the start of this season. He’s off to a slow start this year in a small sample of 11 Double-A games, so he’ll have to turn things around to stop his stock from falling further.

  • January 19, 2021: In a three-team trade, the Padres acquire Joe Musgrove and the Mets acquire Joey Lucchesi while the Pirates receive David Bednar, Endy Rodriguez, Hudson Head, Drake Fellows and Omar Cruz.

As mentioned earlier, Musgrove had established himself as a viable starter, enough to reap a pile of prospects that has already worked out well for the Bucs. Bednar has become one of the better relievers in the game, currently sporting a 2.82 ERA and 31.3% strikeout rate while racking up 30 saves. The fact that he happens to be a Pittsburgh kid is just icing on the cake. He’s yet to reach arbitration and isn’t slated for free agency until the 2026-27 offseason.

There’s still plenty of time for the Bucs to get even more out of this deal as well, as the other four players are still in their system. The most notable of them is Rodríguez, who is on the 40-man roster but hasn’t made it to the majors just yet. The catcher/infielder/outfielder is a versatile player with a potent bat, making him one of the most highly-touted prospects in the sport. He’s considered to be one of the top 50 prospects in the league by each of Baseball America, FanGraphs, Kiley McDaniel of ESPN, Keith Law of The Athletic and MLB Pipeline.

  • January 24, 2021: Yankees acquire Jameson Taillon for Roansy Contreras, Miguel Yajure, Maikol Escotto and Canaan Smith-Njigba.

Taillon had some good seasons working in the Pittsburgh rotation from 2016 to 2018, but Tommy John surgery wiped out most of his 2019 and all of his 2020. He was set to return to the mound in 2021 when he still had a couple of years of control remaining. Despite the injury uncertainty, the Yankees believed in Taillon enough to acquire those two seasons, sending four prospects to Pittsburgh in exchange.

Yajure is already gone from the organization and Escotto’s prospect stock has fallen off, but the other two players are still on the roster. Most evaluators project Smith-Njigba for a bench/utility role, though he’s still young, turning 24 this coming weekend. Regardless, the most significant player in this batch seems to be Contreras, as he’s already in the club’s rotation. He has a 3.84 ERA through his first 119 2/3 innings in the big leagues and isn’t slated for free agency until after 2028. If he can continue to hold his own against major league hitters, then the Pirates have a rotation building block in place for the foreseeable future.

  • July 26, 2021: Padres acquire Adam Frazier for Jack Suwinski, Tucupita Marcano and Michell Miliano.

Frazier was drafted by the Pirates and had spent his entire career with them up until this point, establishing himself as a solid utility option. His bat was roughly around league average, a useful asset for a player who could be plugged in at almost any position on the diamond. He was having a BABIP-backed spike in 2021, hitting .324/.388/.448 when the Pirates sold high, trading him away while he still had a year and a half of control remaining, getting three young players in return.

Miliano is a 23-year-old reliever who’s yet to surpass High-A, so he’s probably the least likely of this group to be a key contributor going forward. Marcano is in the big leagues but is expected to serve a bench/utility role. Suwinski, however, has the chance to be an impactful member of the club. He’s been playing all three outfield spots in the big leagues, seeming to be a passable defender at any of them. He’s also hit 24 home runs in just 122 games thus far. His 30.3% strikeout rate is certainly on the high side, but he’s also drawn walks at a healthy 12% clip. His .209/.310/.440 career batting line to this point in his career translated into a 109 wRC+, and his batted-ball data in 2023’s small sample is particularly interesting (95.2 mph average exit velocity, 56.3% hard-hit rate). He’s not slated for free agency until after the 2028 season.

  • July 22, 2022: Mets acquire Daniel Vogelbach for Colin Holderman.

Vogelbach was a known power threat, having hit 30 home runs with the Mariners in 2019, but he struggled in the next few seasons and bounced to the Blue Jays and Brewers, getting non-tendered by the latter club after the 2021 season. The Pirates signed him to a modest deal worth $1MM plus incentives, watched him get into a groove and flipped him to the Mets after a few months.

Holderman has just 35 major league appearances to this point in his career, but the results are fairly encouraging.  He has a 3.20 ERA with a 49.1% ground ball rate, helping him keep the ball in the park to such a degree that he’s yet to allow a home run. That surely won’t be able to last forever, but he’s working himself into a high-leverage role with the club, having accrued eight holds already in this young season.

  • August 1, 2022: Cardinals acquire José Quintana and Chris Stratton for Johan Oviedo and Malcom Nuñez.

Quintana has a long track record of success in the majors but struggled in both 2020 and 2021, getting bumped to the bullpen in both seasons. The Pirates bought low by signing him to a one-year, $2MM deal and giving him a shot to re-establish himself as a starter. It worked, as he registered a 3.50 ERA with the Bucs, allowing them to flip him to the Cardinals for a couple of younger players. Nunez has yet to reach the majors and is struggling in Triple-A right now, but he’s still just 22 years old. Baseball America and FanGraphs both considered him the club’s #21 prospect coming into the season.

Oviedo was initially a starter with the Cards but got bumped to the bullpen last year. The Pirates are giving him another shot at rotation work with good results so far. He has a 2.78 ERA in 11 starts for Pittsburgh between last year and this year, with a 22.4% strikeout rate, 10.1% walk rate and 54.8% ground ball rate. Oviedo has more than doubled his curveball usage in 2023, and is throwing the pitch harder than ever before. It’s a small sample, but his swinging-strike rate is up from 11.2% to 14.6%. He’s under club control through 2027.

_____________________________________________

It’s no secret that the Pirates are a low-spending club. Looking at data from Cot’s Baseball Contracts, which goes back to the year 2000, they’ve never even made it to the middle of the pack in terms of payroll. They’ve frequently been at the very bottom of spenders and their highest relative rank was getting to 19th place way back in 2001. For the clubs that keep the purse strings that tight, it’s essential that they succeed in getting the most out of younger players who haven’t yet maximized their earning power.

Since the major league economic system artificially deflates player salaries until they get to six years of service time, it’s important for a club on the stingy side to find good young players, whether it’s those that they draft/sign or those they get from other organizations. As the Pirates appear to be on the verge of being respectable again, or perhaps have already arrived, they seem to be doing just that. As mentioned, they’ve had the occasional clunker, like the Holmes deal, but a decent chunk of the roster was built via trade. Two of their regular outfielders were acquired in trades, as was their everyday shortstop, although he’s on the shelf right now. Their dealing has also given them two of their five rotation members, some of their best relievers, a few utility players and some key prospects.

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MLBTR Originals Pittsburgh Pirates Brennan Malone Bryan Reynolds Canaan Smith-Njigba Colin Holderman Colin Moran David Bednar Endy Rodriguez Jack Suwinski Jason Martin Joe Musgrove Johan Oviedo Kyle Crick Liover Peguero Malcom Nunez Michael Feliz Miguel Yajure Oneil Cruz Roansy Contreras Tucupita Marcano

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View Comments (165)
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165 Comments

  1. fre5hwind

    2 years ago

    YESSIR I KNEW WE WERE GONNAA GET GOOD

    12
    Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      2 years ago

      You have been the shining light of hope and positivity the entire time.

      6
      Reply
    • CaptainJudge99

      2 years ago

      Yeah hopefully Bryan Reynolds traded to the Yankees next! Doubt it.

      2
      Reply
      • YourDreamGM

        2 years ago

        I hope so too. Hard to trade him while winning. No one wanted to pay the cost past season. Looking like extension or run out his arbitration.

        2
        Reply
        • Treehouse22

          2 years ago

          He’s a Bucco for life!!!

          Reply
      • fre5hwind

        2 years ago

        Ha! Keep wishing Captain! TBH could go any way.

        Reply
        • CaptainJudge99

          2 years ago

          @fre5hwind- There is nothing wrong with wishing. I still haven’t given up hope. We’ll see. I heard the Pirates are contender’s now? So maybe Reynolds stays in Pittsburgh.

          2
          Reply
        • fre5hwind

          2 years ago

          That’s my wish

          1
          Reply
      • TheMan 3

        2 years ago

        jeez you’re annoying Captain Dud

        Reply
        • CaptainJudge99

          2 years ago

          @NotTheMan 3- enjoy winning for now, reality will strike later on, and enjoy not being the man, not that there’s anything wrong with that. Good luck.

          3
          Reply
        • TheMan 3

          2 years ago

          and good luck with the often injured over the hill over paid players the Yankees always sign

          Reply
        • cornwhisperer

          2 years ago

          Cap, I like the Yanks. Always have. But being a fan of a small market team, I appreciate what the Rays have established as a model even more. They seem to give your boys fits year in and year out with young players and simply reload every so often
          If the Pirates are emulating that model—and I believe they are—then they’ll be at the very least competitive over the long haul
          They may never be a WS contender unless the stars align once in a while, but that’s fine. I think most of us can live with that

          1
          Reply
        • CaptainJudge99

          2 years ago

          @cornwhisperer- I agree with what you are saying. It really must be tough to root for a small market team, I give you kinda guys all the credit in the world. I wouldn’t mind seeing the Pirates playing well, and hope it continues. I tease the fans all the time, but I truly love all the competitiveness in baseball. I love the Cubs in the NL that’s my team, so obviously I don’t care for the Cardinals, but I have a lot of friends that root for them and are loyal to them to the end. I respect that and that’s what it’s all about. As far as the Rays they are so talented and I’m not really surprised to see how good they are, truthfully. They just have to get out of that horrible stadium and they’ll be alright. Thank you for your comments!

          3
          Reply
      • Bright Side

        2 years ago

        Don’t want him. He’s overrated. Ks too much and doesn’t draw many BBs. The Yankees need that type of player like another hole in the head. Plus, they have to pay for him twice. The Yankees are screwed for 2023. In the offseason, there weren’t any players available who would have made any significant improvement to the lineup. So, they were screwed heading into the season. Now, they’re, at best, #3 in the AL East.

        Reply
        • CaptainJudge99

          2 years ago

          @Bright Side- you truly don’t want Bryan Reynolds? The Yankees aren’t going to make the playoffs? Rough start, ok I would rather go thru this now then September. A player like BR is exactly what the Yankees need in their lineup. He is our missing piece. Wait for our starters to comeback. Don’t give up on the season already. It’s way too early, man.

          1
          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          MajorJudge- Good news is that you have just been promoted.
          You have also just been taken off the list of AYF’s.Congratulations.Corn,The Man,and I have just voted on your promotion.You won 2 to 1..Guess who voted “no”
          You know that I think Reynolds is a very good player,although not necessarily a superstar.But I have to ask you a personal question,which is none of my business but I feel that I know you well now.
          Are you in a bromance with Bryan Reynolds?

          1
          Reply
        • Buuba ho tep

          2 years ago

          The Yankees will always be an overspending loser organization with lose fans

          Reply
    • Ignorant Son-of-a-b

      2 years ago

      Just want to tip my hat and say congrats to the Bucs and their fans for having the best record in the National League as of this morning the 25th of April. Really cool and refreshing to see, whether it’s short sample size or not. Rave On!

      8
      Reply
      • Mendoza Line 215

        2 years ago

        Thank you ISOAB from Bucco fans.
        You certainly do not fit your screen name.

        1
        Reply
    • Buuba ho tep

      2 years ago

      It’s great that the BUCCOS are getting more and more coverage…..I think this is the beginning of winning baseball for the BUCCOS
      And on another note RIP DICK GROAT

      Reply
  2. Monkey’s Uncle

    2 years ago

    The Bucs finally did figure out that whole “trading for prospects” thing. It just took a little practice. Lots and lots of practice.

    7
    Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      2 years ago

      I much prefer trading for mlb ready all star approach. Rincon-Giles-Bay Burnett-Hanrahan-Melancon-Rivero Cole-Musgrove-Bednar

      7
      Reply
      • cornwhisperer

        2 years ago

        I think that Huntington was incredibly in point with bringing in established “stars” during the Cutch-Walker era. He seemed to have a keen sense about guys who were regarded as “past their prime” but who personally felt they had something to prove. Certainly, AJ and Martin fell into that category There were others, of course, but could it be that Cherington has followed the same script with Cutch, Santana and Choi? Guess we’ll find out

        Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          Corn-different era and different situation,but somewhat alike.Then the players brought in were needed to make the team better.In retrospect,we should have known that there was no veteran leadership last year.That is why these guys were brought in now.They will not be here in two- three years.The players then were younger and potential building blocks.It is enough different to be apparent after thinking about it.But the players now are still good enough that they can be both positive player additions and leadership additions,

          1
          Reply
    • Macbeth

      2 years ago

      Or just changing GMs from Neal to Cherington.

      With the exception of Cole and Cutch deals all of these are Cherington’s work.

      Reply
      • Bright Side

        2 years ago

        Trading Glasnow and Meadows for Archer will get a GM, not named Cashman, fired. My in-laws live in central PA. While visiting them, my brother-in-law broke the news of that deal. I told him then it was terrible.

        Reply
        • Macbeth

          2 years ago

          And Baz was the PTBNL too.

          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          The Pirates were going for the playoffs in 2018 and had just won 11 in a row sweeping the Brewers in Milwaukee.
          They changed their modus operandi and traded young players for an established player. Thinking that they were getting the #2 pitcher that they needed,they made the deal.
          Unfortunately,they overrated Archer,and he quickly got hurt.
          I gave them credit for taking a calculated gamble.
          My concern from the start was the PTBNL since he was just a year and a half earlier their #1 draft choice.NH even said that that one was going to hurt in advance of naming him.
          Everyone complained of their mediocrity for 2 1/2 years but when they took a chance of getting better,Yinzers complained.
          And that is what Yinzers do.

          Reply
  3. YourDreamGM

    2 years ago

    Pirates probably best trader’s in last dozen years. Only real loss was Archer. That was more player development failure and a gm desperate to keep job. Huge part in getting him fired so I kinda like it. Stopped being a Pirate fan until they replaced him with one of my favorite gms.

    4
    Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      2 years ago

      Many will say Rays who are my AL team and they are top 3 along with Cleveland my al central team. Those teams had more trades I didn’t like where Pirates just have the Archer. Could be forgetting something but those 3 teams come to mind as in teams that don’t lose many trades.

      3
      Reply
    • Col_chestbridge

      2 years ago

      Kind of the fascinating thing for me is that Hungtington was poached from Cleveland. So he really should have been well versed in the strategy of trading back for prospects, constantly. But he largely eschewed that strategy until the very end of his run, which is where his 2 best trades come from. The Archer trade is really what did him in.

      The other big problem was their development. Cole, Taillon, and Archer all got better after leaving. Maybe Huntington still has a job if those guys bloomed under his watch.

      1
      Reply
      • cornwhisperer

        2 years ago

        Well stated. I don’t think you can judge Huntington can be judged on his last two seasons. They were hailing him as a genius during his first few years and I think you hit on it in your final paragraph. Player development and really, scouting did his regime in
        One thing we’ll never know is what type of pressure he was under to pull the trigger on his final few trades. They seemed to be out of character and really, they were made in hopes of securing a wild card berth. Those last couple teams really weren’t going anywhere, weren’t going to do damage beyond the wild card or divisional playoffs

        Reply
      • Mendoza Line 215

        2 years ago

        Colonel-Those of us who are Pirates fans know know that Taillon was constantly sick or hurt during his years with the Pirates.
        Archer’s career was over once he got hurt early on with the Pirates.
        Even Charlie Morton was hurt much of the time with the Pirates.He pitched reasonably well when he did pitch.He pitched three games for the Phillies after the Pirates traded him,and,voila,pulled a hamstring and was out the rest of the year.
        Cole was a young pitcher with lots to learn and was seriously miffed when they would not raise his minimal salary his first couple of years.Injuries affected him his fourth and fifth years.
        Separate was not good with young pitchers,and the overall coaching group was just as bad or worse as there have been very few starting pitchers developed by the Pirates,
        Mediocre scouting and poor development is what got NH fired.

        1
        Reply
  4. bucsfan0004

    2 years ago

    As much as i like Cruz and Reynolds, the ‘previous regime’ made countless bad trades.

    My favorite trade in the past couple seasons has to be Vogelbach for Holderman last year… what a steal for a career aaaa player

    3
    Reply
    • YourDreamGM

      2 years ago

      I can only think of 1 recently so would be interested in hearing about these countless others. Giving up on Batista too soon was a mistake. Bay return was fair enough but didn’t pan out. Other than that nothing comes to mind and those trades were early on.

      Reply
      • JM412

        2 years ago

        Bay trade was terrible and widely criticized, for good reason. There was very little upside in that deal.

        1
        Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          2 years ago

          @JM412 Criticized by who? The clueless media and the fans who parrot everything they say? Same ones who criticized the Cutch Cole etc trades? I wasn’t a Pirate fan then or as baseball intelligent as I am now. Just one of the clueless masses. Seems like some high draft picks and ranked prospects came back. Not every prospect makes it. Most don’t.

          2
          Reply
        • holecamels35

          2 years ago

          Cole trade was horrible. If that was going to be the return, trade him at the deadline for more desperate teams.
          Bell trade was horrible. I am not a big fan of his game but still could have given value to the team or traded later. Got nothing for Stallings which is fine.
          The pattern seems to be get back on good player who is just a younger cheaper version of who they gave up, potentially. Would love to hit on 2-3 guys in a single deal or have some of these top picks pan out. I have no faith in Gonzalez and Henry Davis is a question mark as well.

          Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          2 years ago

          @holecamels35 Could have been worth less at deadline. Or he could have been injured. Teams weren’t trading for Pirates Cole. They wanted to work with him all spring to improve him.

          Reply
        • Tigers3232

          2 years ago

          @JM, Bay had one good season after that trade. As for Bautista PIT was like the 4th team to move on from him. It’s not as though they missed something they clearly should have seen. The only real horrendous trade I can think of from PIT would b the Archer trade. That was near catastrophic.

          2
          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          Tigers- The Archer trade has been called the worst trade ever by posters and also franchise altering.
          It was hardly either.
          First of all,none of these three players were playing especially well for the Pirates.Baz was wild,Glasgow could not figure it out,and Meadows was decent but hardly was projected to be an all star.Plus,the Pirates had two fine outfielders in Marte and Polanco.
          Archer was still a good pitcher even though no longer an all star.
          Then he got hurt and basically ruined his career.
          But what happened to the other three.
          I am sure that you are familiar with the sad Meadows saga,
          Glasgow pitcher extremely well for about a year,then complained loudly about the new stickum rules,then almost immediately had the severe arm injury.He hasn’t pitched since,and how effective will he be without his helpful spin rate glue?
          Baz pitched a few games,then immediately had the same severe injury as Glasgow.
          If the Pirates had these three players for the last four years,would they have won 15 more games?Maybe.But so what.
          If Glasgow and Baz suddenly get healthy,and pitch well for ten years,then it would be a really really bad trade.
          Do you think that that will happen?
          But based on four years of results,this trade is no way near catastrophic.Nor is it franchise altering.Nor is it the worst trade of all time.
          It may turn out to be not even as bad as the Parades trade for Meadows.

          4
          Reply
        • Tigers3232

          2 years ago

          @Mendoza, I’m very familiar with Meadows and his current troubles. For his sake hopefully he endures.

          The fact that all three have already had success at the major league level is indicative of a horrible trade. And in return the Pirates gor 6 wins in 30+ starts…

          Pointing out that they were not doing well does not exactly bode well for PAT’S assessment of the players at the time either. Tampa Bay seemed to see enough that they wanted them.

          2
          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          But how horrendous has it been?Yes,injuries have happened to the two pitchers,but also Archer.
          I am not saying that it was not a bad trade.But most posters on here have historically ranked it among the worst trades of all time,and the adjective horrendous only magnifies that thought.It may prove to be so,but almost five years into it it only ranks as a bad trade.And many trades made by GM’s do.

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        • cornwhisperer

          2 years ago

          You’re using hindsight here, my friend, and I get it. Meadows alone was my dropping off point. You’re trading a potential everyday starter with tremendous upside for a pitcher who might win you 4-5 games down the stretch in hopes of a wild card and a guy who’d been up and down for a couple years
          Beyond that, it was apparent that like Cole in a way, Searage could not get through to Glasnow. Here was a young flamethrower who just couldn’t get out of his own way. No one seemed to make inroads with him—reminded me of Cole and his love of throwing his fastball over the outside corner virtually every time and with every batter. Ray resurrected some careers here, from AJ to Frankie, Edison, Melancon, Grilli and Hanrahan, but boy, there were some guys who truly learned to pitch after leaving town, like Cole, Morton and Glasnow
          And Baz?
          Just seemed like throwing away prospects was a bad idea

          Reply
        • Tigers3232

          2 years ago

          I’m not gonna label it as one of worst all time. I’d label it one of worst of PITs trades ever. Trading for a player who essentially provided you nothing for 3 prospects who all made MLB and have had some success and shown upside is pretty bad.

          Everyone praised the Meadows trade immediately here in Detroit. I was immediately reluctant, TB just does not seem to make many mistakes in regards to assessing player talent. It seems as tho Paedres will continue to produce for them.

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        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          Corn-I never said that I would have made that trade.
          It went against their mode of operation as you have correctly pointed out numerous times and when a team does that they can clearly get burned as they did here.
          I also think that the Rays suckered them into including Baz which I strongly blame the Pirates for doing.I think that the Rays would have made the trade of a pitcher who they knew was clearly going downhill for two young players with high to very high ceilings.The Pirates did not exactly have a plethora of them in their system.
          But what I resent is out of Towners jumping on the bandwagon and in essence trolling by being clueless on why this trade was made.
          Searage as you are aware was very good with previously established pitchers but fairly poor at developing young pitchers.This in retrospect was a very big problem with a small market team and untenable in the long run.I liken that to Joe Geraldi who was good with veterans but bad with young players as he did trust or have patience with their development.
          I think it important to understand the overall situation as you do instead of automatically being negative or not schooling oneself on what really was going on at the time of the trade.

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        • Rayofsunshine

          2 years ago

          Glasnow actually did pitch late last season and looked quite good 🙂

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        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          Rub it in Rays fan’!,!!!!
          He was probably the highest ceiling pitcher that the Pirates have ever produced other than Cole
          I wonder how much the sticky stuff helped him,but we will probably see.
          I was surprised that you guys gave him$10M not to pitch this year.
          This trade could potentially turn out to be a disaster for the Pirates.
          But Glasnow was not going to get better under the Pirates then,and for some reason,NH kept harping on the years of control of Archer.
          If a pitcher is no longer a good pitcher,or gets seriously hurt,years of control are meaningless.

          Reply
    • Mendoza Line 215

      2 years ago

      Fan- NH’s early trades were not good because the young players that he got back were not good.He greatly improved around 2009 or 2010 and started making a lot of very good trades in getting ML ready players with promise.
      I think that the Marte and Bell trades from BC were mostly salary dumps and those two players surprisingly did not fetch much in subsequent trades anyway.
      Several of his subsequent trades have been excellent.
      No GM hits on them all but I agree with Dream that the Pirates have been fortunate in their trades for almost 15 years.
      The problem with NH was his scouting and development teams which are absolutely essential for small market teams.
      BC has also been very good with his free agent hires.His development and scouting seem to be better although lack of fundamentals in previous years still concern me.
      This was a nice and well written article.

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      • TheMan 3

        2 years ago

        Player development was also horrible under Huntington.
        His #1 draft picks were mostly mediocre or worse
        The fact he lasted so long was more of a testament of how bad the organization was as a whole
        And the jury is still out on BC’s #1 draft picks
        Swaggerty is 25 years old and still hasn’t made it to the majors

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  5. watup0100

    2 years ago

    They got a bunch of role players, and what may turn out to be 2-3 good players. Definitely turning this franchise into the right direction but let’s not get too optimistic because they’ve played and won against bad teams. Half their wins are against the Reds and the Rockies…

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    • YourDreamGM

      2 years ago

      Looks like they already have proven players and more everyday players to come. Red’s can use some bats but have good pitching. Pirates and Reds are going to surprise a lot of teams fans.

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      • Big whiffa

        2 years ago

        The reds have good pitching ? They have the worst bullpen in baseball and can’t fill out a rotation.

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        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          Whiffa-Then why did the Pirates only score 12 runs in 4 games after scoring 33 runs in 3 games?The Rockies pitching is terrible,but the Reds are trying to wrap up their three best young starting pitchers in team friendly contracts.
          Their bullpen pitched well against the Pirates too.They are rebuilding just like the Pirates and it takes a couple years to get a good one

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    • BeforeMcCourt

      2 years ago

      Look at their success rates on trades before 2017 and you’ll understand why multiple stars, at least one rotation cog, a few bullpen arms and a bunch of competent role players is a major win…

      Reply
      • YourDreamGM

        2 years ago

        Trades from 2012 to 2017 were some of if not the best in baseball. Who did the Yankees receive for Burnett Cervelli Stewart? Weren’t pleased with Melancon Rivero? Byrd Morneau Soria? Amazing trades. Got them for pretty much nothing.

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        • LFGSD619

          2 years ago

          Melancon for Rivero isn’t a trade you want to hang your hat on tbh.

          Reply
        • YourDreamGM

          2 years ago

          Rivero was alright. Vazquez disgusting.

          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          Fernando- The trade itself was great.They got three years out of one of the three best closers in baseball for $64 M of mediocrity.
          It was a shame all around how it turned out.

          Reply
        • LFGSD619

          2 years ago

          Melancon wasn’t owed $64m when they traded him. And it didn’t “turn out” any way. Felipe chose his own path in life.

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        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          Fernando-But he got it.Do you think that the Pirates would have paid him that?
          Hindsight like yours is a common occurrence among posters on this sight.In real life GM’s do not have that luxury to foretell the future.

          Reply
        • LFGSD619

          2 years ago

          Doesn’t matter what the Pirates would or wouldn’t have paid him. The fact of the matter is he was a 2-month rental when he was traded. He would have been a pretty easy QO candidate had he not been traded. Don’t try it with “The Pirates wouldn’t have gone to the QO because they can’t afford to pay a reliever that much money.” They wouldn’t have had to pay a reliever that much money. In 95% of cases where a player receives a QO, it is just a formality and the team already knows the player won’t accept. Melancon woukd have been part of that 95%. I GUARANTEE it.

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        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          Fernando- So What.They got one of the top three closers in baseball for three years and were going to be a 500 team with Melancon the rest of the year.
          You continually have not gotten the point for whatever reason so we are going to have to agree to disagree.

          Reply
        • LFGSD619

          2 years ago

          At least that QO comp pick wouldn’t have been a predator. Would have been pick number 28 which in our timeline was Nate Pearson.

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        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          And it has been obvious that you have been fixated on that fact to the detriment of your reasoning on the trade itself.

          Reply
        • LFGSD619

          2 years ago

          The Pirates were also only 3 games back of the 2nd NL Wild Card spot on the day they traded Melancon. Not really a time to trade who had been the statistical best closer in the National League so far that year. They didn’t exactly make other seller moves at that deadline either. Definitely seems like they were fence-sitting.

          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          I member another poster saying something similar a couple of years ago.
          The Pirates had already traded Walker in the off season and Liriano had crashed and been traded.
          NH was enamored with Rivero as he had pitched against the Pirates and impressed.
          He did not think that the Pirates could contend and made the decision.
          I think that it was one of his best trades ever.
          Could Melancon have made the difference in getting to the wild card?Maybe.But the one game wild card was truly a crap shoot.
          I think that he was wise in making the trade for an almost immediate closer who turned out to be every bit as good as Melancon.

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        • LFGSD619

          2 years ago

          They also traded for Ivan Nova, a two month rental, so clearly they hadn’t completely given up on the season. 3 games is not insurmountable. And as the 2022 Phillies showed, once you make it into the playoffs, anything is possible.

          The Pirates would have been fine without Rivero the predator lol. Especially considering they get a comp pick if they keep Melancon.

          Reply
    • TheMan 3

      2 years ago

      In recent years they would have lost to the Reds and Rockies because they were so bad
      What makes a team good is beating the teams they are supposed to beat

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      • Admiral of the Allegheny

        2 years ago

        Agreed, and to put up 14 twice on ANY team in a 3 game series is impressive.

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      • Mendoza Line 215

        2 years ago

        McCourt-Do you think that you should stick to the Dodgers?
        Name the bad trades since 2012.
        And I know that you will say Archer first.

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        • BeforeMcCourt

          2 years ago

          Mendoza, I picked 2017 to reflect the trades covered in this write up. You arbitrarily picked 2012 just to disagree, then double down and say “and don’t tell me about the horrible, franchise altering deal that occurred in that window”

          That’s not how reasonable conversations work, buddy

          If you want to defend pre-2017 trades and want to claim the Bucs don’t deserve their reputation for getting reamed in trades over and over, defend Jason Bay, Kenny Lofton, Aramis Ramirez, Ryan Howard non-trade, Jason Schmidt, Leo Nunez. Oh yeah, now let’s talk Archer. I’m sure you’ll do great

          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          You are going back over 15 years McCourt..
          And I am certainly not your buddy.
          And you didn’t answer my question,did you,buddy!
          It is nice to see that you are still an arrogant Dodger fan.You haven’t changed.

          Reply
        • JM412

          2 years ago

          Mendoza, the Liriano, Ramirez, Mcguire for Drew Hutchison was a bad trade for sure. It was bad at the time dumping two prospects so the Jays would take his salary. It was worse when Toronto flipped Liriano for Teoscar Hernandez the next year. And it is still bad seeing Ramirez and McGuire having some success on other mlb teams.

          Reply
        • Robertowannabe1

          2 years ago

          You have to remember how bad Liriano was at the time of the trade along with being owed a ton of money. Neither Ramirez or McGuire have anything more than journeymen. Neither lived up to the hype they had when the Bucs had them in the minors. Houston could part with Hernandez because they had a bevy of talented OF and they wanted a LH reliever and he was only owed a couple of months of the last year of his contract.

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        • JM412

          2 years ago

          And what was Drew Hutchison? The move was a salary dump. They could’ve done much better by keeping Liriano or eating salary. I know he was struggling a bit at the time, but trading him at his lowest value is a big part of why the trade was so bad.

          Reply
        • Robertowannabe1

          2 years ago

          They used the salary savings to pay Ivan Nova at the time. That made the deal more palatable.

          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          JM-I am going to respond to your first post since it was addressed to me.
          See the post of Roberto.He knows what he is talking about.
          It was a good trade for sure since they saved $21M and gave up two young players who they thought were mediocre and who have proven to be so.
          Liriano proved to Be a decent relief pitcher after that trade but was in no way a capable starting pitcher ever again.

          Reply
    • HalosHeavenJJ

      2 years ago

      Role players are critical to keeping payroll costs down. Look at what guys like Brandon Drury are signing for.

      If the Pirates landed Reynolds plus enough cost controlled pieces to offset his salary (assuming an extension) that’s a win.

      Reply
  6. wvsteve

    2 years ago

    definitely some wins and some losses with these trades. hopefully a few all star seasons result out of these trades.

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    • RobM

      2 years ago

      No GM wins all trades, so I agree with your assessment Some wins and losses mixed in.

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    • YourDreamGM

      2 years ago

      I’m not seeing any loses. Lots of irrelevants and fair trades at time that might not pan out. Maybe a somewhat light but who knows what was available. Fans always think their players are great and want your best prospects for them. Bell was a inconsistent not cheap DH only. Stallings was a great defensive catcher who was at the age that pitch framing skills regress and didn’t seem great for controlling running game. Rodriguez clearly wasn’t the same without sticky stuff.

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      • Admiral of the Allegheny

        2 years ago

        The Clay Holmes deal definitely didn’t pan out lol. Lots of other good ones though!

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        • YourDreamGM

          2 years ago

          Holmes wasn’t a good pitcher for them. It’s either keep trying and hoping or get something while you can. Bad result but you can see why they did it. Actually like the 2 longshot pitchers that trade ultimately got them.

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  7. holecamels35

    2 years ago

    I am a Pirates fan through and through but I’d say these trades are 50/50 at best. It seems they got great returns for average players, and subpar/terrible returns for their best players.
    Bednar is a great closer, and Endy can potentially be an all star, but Musgrove could have been their ace and they probably could have locked him up cheaper than what the Pads got him for. Cole trade was awful, Bell got very little back if I can recall? They just need the right coaching and development because they have plenty of talent here and in the minors, and lots of players who didn’t figure it out until they left Pittsburgh.

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    • YourDreamGM

      2 years ago

      Bell didn’t have much value. Inconsistent dh only. Washington improved his fielding and his consistency. 5 years of Musgrove is more valuable than 2 years of Pirates Cole. 6 years of Bednar is more valuable than 2 of Musgrove and Endy makes it a huge win. Nothing awful about those trades.

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      • Robertowannabe1

        2 years ago

        Bell is showing how little value he has still. He did the same thing last year that he did in 2019. Red hot to d begin the season then cratered for the 2nd half and scuffling this year now.

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    • showmebb

      2 years ago

      Cole trade wasn’t awful at all. They turned around and traded one of the players they received-Musgrove-for an excellent closer and a top prospect. The Cole trade was quite good.

      Reply
      • TheMan 3

        2 years ago

        Cole still had 2 years left before free agency so there really wasn’t any rush to trade him when they did

        Reply
      • Big whiffa

        2 years ago

        Cole should have netted you a top 10 prospect in baseball. Which should have been yonder Alvarez or Kyle tucker. Then another top 50 prospect and then 2 more teenagers, one wild card and one former top international talent.

        It’s freaking Cole ! The best starter in baseball ! They gave the dude away.

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        • Admiral of the Allegheny

          2 years ago

          Well, in long form he did net us Endy Rodriguez and David Bednar.

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        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          Cole had been hurt parts of the last two years and was not pitching all that great.
          He did not want to play in Pittsburgh.
          His success does not surprise me but he was only ever after the money.
          And if he would have gotten hurt and needed Tommy John surgery they would have received nothing for him.
          Do you really think NH turned down better deals for him,and they only talked to the Astros?

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        • Robertowannabe1

          2 years ago

          Look at how Cole was doing when they traded him. He was not the best pitcher in baseball. He gave up a lot of HR, ERA north of 4, 12-12 record. Huntington did not want prospects, he wanted several guys ready to play and that is what he got. The best was Musgrove. If the Pirates waited and he repeated 2017, they would have gotten even less.

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  8. Hired Gun 23

    2 years ago

    The Bucs have looked good so far…

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    • YourDreamGM

      2 years ago

      Good seems too light.

      Reply
      • Hired Gun 23

        2 years ago

        Shall I annoint them, as of April 24th, a wildcard team? Division winner? Nine of their next twelve will not be easy. I’m content, for now, with calling them ‘good’…

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        • Big whiffa

          2 years ago

          Please don’t. If they did this in July – it wouldn’t even be news

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  9. EM41

    2 years ago

    Yes, the Pirates are looking better, but they couldn’t have gotten much worse, unless they were trying to get out of town like the A’s.
    But the big question is what happens to the Pirates in 2-3 year. If those players become stars or even solid major leaguers, they will get paid. Will the Pirates pay to keep them??? I doubt it. Ownership is still the REAL problem for the Pirates.

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    • cornwhisperer

      2 years ago

      You’re missing the point. If they’re really trying to emulate TB, what they’re intent on doing is competing while they maintain financial control of players, trading away guys who are too expensive for prospects and simply re-loading from their minors
      This is the “success story” here as they have beefed up their farm system at all stages to do just that
      Will it work? Who knows?

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      • YourDreamGM

        2 years ago

        Yep. Paying players isn’t a issue. Players will either sign team friendly extensions. Traded for a fair prospect return. Or at worst case receive a comp pick for them as long as that is still a thing. Cole McCutchen Marte Musgrove Taillon ect weren’t traded because the Pirates couldn’t afford them.

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  10. Ignorant Son-of-a-b

    2 years ago

    This was a stellar article and I greatly appreciate this kind of analysis. Very helpful and informative. Kudos +1

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    • Big whiffa

      2 years ago

      I agree. MLB trade rumors has taken a step forward in 2023. Great site !

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  11. giantwarrioras49ersraiders

    2 years ago

    Sabean built the giants then torn them down by trading their prospects. Giants core was built within with no big agent signing. Beltran for wheeler even worse

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  12. Rsox

    2 years ago

    Is there a better last name for a setup man than “Holderman”…

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    • YourDreamGM

      2 years ago

      Holdtheinning

      Reply
    • Ferpad

      2 years ago

      Yankees had Jonathan Holder…but he wasn’t true to his name.

      Reply
    • Ignorant Son-of-a-b

      2 years ago

      James Outman should have started out as a pitcher, with thar last name. As a batter, it doesn’t come across too compelling.

      Reply
      • YourDreamGM

        2 years ago

        He hits the ball out of the park man

        Reply
  13. User 3595123227

    2 years ago

    No. These are the Pittsburgh Pirates. It’s just matter of time. It isn’t even May yet. Crash and burn is on the way.

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    • YourDreamGM

      2 years ago

      Well they aren’t going to win 110 120 games so regression is certain. But close to 500 or even a winning record is possible. All comes down to injuries. Already lost 2 starting pitchers, ss, dh and left hand reliever. They can’t overcome much more.

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      • User 3595123227

        2 years ago

        Actually I’d like to see the Pirates do well for the sake of the fans. Not the owner. Not even upper management. These fans have been given minor league talent on the major league level for years and years. The fans deserve it.

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        • YourDreamGM

          2 years ago

          Fans don’t run my ball club

          Reply
    • TheMan 3

      2 years ago

      Stick with being a retired advisor to the morons, Pirate fans have something to be hopeful for

      Are you related to Captain Judge by chance? He’s also a debbie downer

      Reply
      • User 3595123227

        2 years ago

        Die.

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        • TheMan 3

          2 years ago

          you’re worthy of being muted retired

          say bye!

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        • User 3595123227

          2 years ago

          Lol.

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    • cornwhisperer

      2 years ago

      Normally I would agree with your thinking but I think the article simply reaffirms what I’ve come to believe, thanks to @YourDreamGM
      No doubt in my mind that they have put their plan in place—which was derailed by the previous front office—and they’ve resigned themselves that they can only compete by embracing a model used by other small market franchises, like TB
      Doesn’t mean they’re going to be in the hunt for NL or WS championships but they’re not going to be laughed at either
      I can live with that
      Yeah, we all know that Nutting is a profiteer first and foremost. At least I can believe he has some sense of civic responsibility
      Have to thank MLBTR and Darragh MacDonald for the article.

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      • YourDreamGM

        2 years ago

        2016 Liriano Cole Locke fell off a cliff. Hard to predict that, didn’t see anyone who did. 2017-2019 the prospects they thought would be good weren’t or got injured. Player development was bad and winning wasn’t sustainable. They were trying to contend and had better than minor league talent. Go look up the rosters. 2020 was same team minus Marte. Most the good players were only controlled for 2 more years. Those players and the farm system weren’t good enough to win. Sorry the poor fans had to deal with awful teams for 2 years. But you needed to build the farm system and the only way for most teams is to trade expiring assets and get elite draft position. Team actually could have used 1 more high draft odds but Ben did such a good job with getting prospects and development they were ready to compete this year. Pirates will be good the rest of this decade so I think 2 years for 7 to 10 is a win.

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        • User 3595123227

          2 years ago

          2 years? Ok. We will have to agree to disagree hopefully. They will not be good for 7 to 10 years. This organization has no desire to sustain winning teams. Don’t kid yourself.

          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          Retired-This organization has a fine desire to have winning teams.They just have to operate how they do because they are like other small market teams.They will have a three or four year cycle and probably win but whether they make the playoffs is another matter with all of the money concentrated in a few teams now.
          Nutting spent on trade deadline additions and also signed younger players to extensions between 2010-2015.He saw no reason to put lipstick on a pig once it was clear in 2019 that the minor leagues were dry and they were no longer able to compete under the old leadership.
          He will spend around $150M if these players are as good as we hope they are.Time will tell.
          Signing Cutch and Walker would have made no difference other than winning maybe 5-10 more games a year at most.

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      • Mendoza Line 215

        2 years ago

        The Pirates’ trade rationale has not changed in well over ten years.
        The difference between NH and BC has been that NH was better able to get ML ready players in trades than BC because the Pirates were so bad when BC took over.that he had to get more in number but lower in development.

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        • User 3595123227

          2 years ago

          I always love how when a team is horrendous year after year everyone blames the owner and management. When things begin to possibly turn the corner they say “those were really great trades they made! They had a plan and stuck to it. I always understood what they were doing!”

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  14. brushbackmlb

    2 years ago

    I love these types of articles! Really good to look back on trades and the domino effect they set off.
    Keep it up, MLBTR!

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  15. mikedickinson

    2 years ago

    I wish the Red Sox could get a guy like Ben Cherrington…

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  16. HalosHeavenJJ

    2 years ago

    Good. I’d love to see Pittsburgh be good again.

    Reply
    • DCartrow

      2 years ago

      Them and the Orioles!!

      Reply
  17. Logistics Guy

    2 years ago

    I hope that the Pittsburgh Pirates do not do what a number of other sport clubs do.

    That keep the manager who has endured a high number of losses and just when club Is ready to go from point C to point A

    They fire him and bring In some like a Joe Maddon. And yes I know he got a new deal. But manager and coach still get fired.

    Reply
    • Mendoza Line 215

      2 years ago

      I think that managers can be specialists in what they are good at.Shelton is very good with young players.He knows how to bring them along.Giraldi was good with older players,but not so good with young players.Some managers are good with managing the game,others with the bullpen.It is easier to manage young teams who are not expected to win,but tougher to manage teams that are expected to win.
      The manager is a very important position,and just like basketball,he should be tailored to the type of players that he has on the team.
      The very best managers have mastered and developed these traits.

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  18. JDem

    2 years ago

    I love this type of content from MLBTR!! Trade retrospectives are so fun to read! Keep it up!

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  19. swissvale

    2 years ago

    As long as Cherrington is GM they are in good shape.

    He’s a true GM as opposed to a “VP of Baseball Operations” or “Director of Player Personnel” who work for team profit as opposed to career growth.

    If Cherrington quits it’s because he’s being handcuffed – long term he want’s another job like the the Yankees or Dodgers (which is fine) – need to enjoy it while we can.

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    • YourDreamGM

      2 years ago

      He is one of the better gms but could easily be replaced. People under him can if they are paying attention. Front offices can just copy what successful teams are doing. They could just come on here and ask me what to do for free. The good gms are good because they have common sense and don’t do stupid things. With so many awful gms the good ones look amazing.

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  20. TradeAcuna

    2 years ago

    Don’t be surprised when the Pirates lose 10 in a row soon and go back to their ways.

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    • YourDreamGM

      2 years ago

      I give you credit for your bold prediction but this isn’t close to being a 100 loss team.

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    • Dumpster Divin Theo

      2 years ago

      Don’t be surprised when the Pirates win 20 in a row and Brad Pitt is knocking over the spread in a made for TV moment

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    • TheMan 3

      2 years ago

      I have news for you, TradeAcuna, no baseball team in history has ever won 162 games in a season and no team, regardless of how good they are, has never gone through a losing streak

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  21. Goku the Knowledgable One

    2 years ago

    Salivating article. I absolutely love seeing roster moves over a large period of time, really get the full picture.

    would love to see more like this, spanning different GM tenures, transactions, trades, intl signings, big moves that worked out, moves that didn’t.

    could be multiple, sub-topics under this format.

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  22. Butter Biscuits

    2 years ago

    Next the list of good free agents they’ve signed…

    Reply
    • Admiral of the Allegheny

      2 years ago

      Big name free agent signings don’t often happen with smaller market teams. Teams like the pirates, royals, A’s – no chance they’re in the conversation for a Soto or Verlander. Thank the parity in baseball for that.

      The grassroots approach – though longer, is a much more sound route to sustainable success for a small market team.

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    • Mendoza Line 215

      2 years ago

      Standup-Actually they have been reasonably good at that on obviously a very small scale.
      What I would rather see is a list of all teams and the money that they have wasted on big ticket free agents.
      I think that for many teams it would be appalling.

      1
      Reply
  23. register14

    2 years ago

    chris archer trade conspicuously absent

    Reply
    • cornwhisperer

      2 years ago

      The Archer trade was the final desperation move of the old regime. Not only had they jettisoned their veteran stars but here, they traded top prospects. Don’t know if it was the idea of taking a huge gamble to save their jobs, but it backfired mightily.
      Really had no place in the article if we are talking about building the farm system with young talent

      Reply
    • Mendoza Line 215

      2 years ago

      Register- What is conspicuous is the second line of The article title.

      Reply
  24. Domingo111

    2 years ago

    Getting cruz, reynolds and Endy in relatively minor trades was definitely huge.of course they also had some bad trades, most notably the archer for meadows, Glasnow and Baz trade which was very bad but overall I think the trades of the last years weren’t bad.

    The Quintana trade could also be great, even if oviedo is just a 5th/6th starter or even middle reliever getting that for a rental of quintana is really good and there is a chance he is more (like a 3 to 4 starter).

    1
    Reply
    • Admiral of the Allegheny

      2 years ago

      Have you seen Johan? He’s looked dominant since we got him

      Reply
    • JoeBrady

      2 years ago

      IMO< folks generally overlook trades like Oviedo. There is a ton of value from getting a #5 for minimum wage.

      Reply
      • cornwhisperer

        2 years ago

        So far, he’s looked like a solid number 2 here, Joe. Kind of shocking that the Cards gave up on him but I guess the same could be said about the Dodgers and them providing the Pirates with Cruz and Hernandez, who sure looks like one helluva young pitcher

        Reply
  25. yogineely

    2 years ago

    I love this, would like to see it done for every teams. Even the trades that were misses for organizations

    Reply
  26. Ignorant Son-of-a-b

    2 years ago

    Raise your hand if you predicted, on the morning of April 25th 2023 that the PITTSBURGH EFFIN’ PIRATES would have the BEST RECORD in the National League at 16-7. I think that is stupendous and worthy of praise whether short sample size or not. Congrats Pirates fans, soak it in.

    3
    Reply
    • alwaysgo4two

      2 years ago

      Too early to say that they’re contenders obviously. As a long time suffering Pirates fan, I’m going to enjoy the moment, and not focus on the coming regression. They aren’t this good but they’re definitely a better team than the Vanmeter version of last year. If they somehow finish .500 that’d be a major accomplishment.

      1
      Reply
  27. Big whiffa

    2 years ago

    Lol giants ! No wonder their fans are always so crunchy

    Reply
  28. piratesfan26

    2 years ago

    While it is true the Pirates haven’t played a very tough schedule, they were absolutely terrible the past 3 seasons, so I don’t care who they beat. I just want them to win games in any way possible. I don’t expect this insane pace to continue, but it is nice to see them playing good baseball for the first time in quite a while.

    1
    Reply
  29. Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher

    2 years ago

    The Pirates are this season’s early candidate for the “Feel Good Story” award. And, yep, those trades are playing a big part in that success.

    Look, the NL Central is the weakest of the three NL divisions. No reason why the Bucs couldn’t make a run at the NL Central crown. Yes, my sanity meter is working just fine, thank you very much.

    Ain’t gonna be easy, but right now, I’d take our starting rotation over the Cardinals, and they were projected to win the NL Central.

    Key for the Bucs is to keep on doing what they’re doing. Make a lot of contact at the plate and don’t give away runs on defense. I think Carlos Santana can be (Or, maybe already is?) a big help teaching the younger players, especially Castro, the benefits of not striking out, seeing a lot of pitches, drawing walks and generally how to get on base. That’s been his calling card for years.

    Whatever, the Bucs look like they’re having fun right now and haven’t let the huge loss of Cruz spoil their party..

    Lastly, I loved Cutch when he played for my hometown Phillies. Was disappointed when they let him walk and sign with the Brewers. In Cutch and Santana (Also, an ex-Phillie) the Bucs couldn’t have two better veterans in the clubhouse to show the young guys how it’s done in The Show.

    1
    Reply
  30. GarryHarris

    2 years ago

    The Pirates could make a very good team of former players.

    Reply
    • Mendoza Line 215

      2 years ago

      Garry-So could all teams.

      1
      Reply
      • GarryHarris

        2 years ago

        I might have missed some Pirates former players:
        Elias Diaz
        Jacob Stallings
        Reese McGuire

        Josh. Bell
        Harold Ramirez
        Daniel Volgelbach
        Adam Frazier
        Josh Harrison
        Jeff Newman
        Ildemaro Vargas

        Corey Dickerson
        Starling Marte
        Jordan Luplow

        Gerrit Cole
        Joe Musgrove
        Jose Quintana
        Tyler Anderson
        Jameson Taillon
        Jordan Lyles
        Trevor Williams
        Tyler Glasnow

        Clay Holmes
        Chris Stratton
        Chasen Shreve
        Enyel De Los Santos
        Bryce Wilson
        Shelby Miller
        Heath Hembree
        Shane Baz

        Reply
        • GarryHarris

          2 years ago

          Charlie Morton

          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          I think that you could make a similar list for every team.

          1
          Reply
        • GarryHarris

          2 years ago

          Go ahead.

          Reply
        • Robertowannabe1

          2 years ago

          Of that whole list Cole, Musgrove, and maybe Taillon are guys that could help the Bucs more than who they have now. Without trading Cole, they would have never had Musgrove. Cole made it very clear he was not extending with anyone and would be hitting the market for the highest bidder. The Pirates would never have been able to compete with the Yanks. Musgrove was traded and got back Bednar and Rodriguez. Just those 2 out of the 5 players returned make it a win for the Bucs at the moment. Taillon brought back 4 players including Contreras and Smith-Njigba. Contreras makes that deal good for the Bucs alone. CSN. Is gravy if he turns out to be any kind of an asset.

          The rest are scuffling mostly if they are not injured Not upset about losing any of these guys.

          Reply
        • GarryHarris

          2 years ago

          I think Elias Diaz, Starling Marte, Cole, Musgrove, Charlie Morton and possibly Harold Ramirez would improve the current Pirates.

          Reply
        • Robertowannabe1

          2 years ago

          Cole would be nowhere else besides New York right now. He would not even consider a Houston offer which was more than many teams including Pittsburgh could offer. We only got Musgrove because we traded Cole. Don’t know if Musgrove would have extended here if we kept him. If he did, we would not have Bednar now and Endy would not be coming up sooner than later. Morton had been considering retirement. Came back with Atlanta because they are in position to compet to get to the WS. Marte is actually only hitting .227 and an OPS of only .638 right now. I like Joe and Suwinski better with Reynolds at the moment. As for Ramirez, he finally started to produce last season after 10 years of scuffling here, Toronto, Miami, Cleveland, Chicago and now in Tampa. No team stuck with him while he scuffled.

          Reply
        • Mendoza Line 215

          2 years ago

          Garry- You Do the National League teams first then I will do the American League
          Then see Roberto’s answer below.
          You just want to be negative on the Pirates.That is your goal.
          I’m not taking the bait.
          So you clearly have the time.Go for it.Do Atlanta first.

          1
          Reply
  31. Karp62

    2 years ago

    This team is on a path that reminds me of 2011-2012. In 2011, we saw glimpses of talent, were in an early pennant race, but the team quickly learned that it had a ways to go. Then, in 2012, we were 67-54 into mid-August before the major meltdown on the way to 79 wins. Then, management went out and got some veteran and clubhouse leaders that showed the young core of Cutch, Marte, Cole, Harrison and others how to approach every day and every up and and down of a 162 game schedule. I’m not saying this is 2013 again, but I do believe it’s got more young talent, both on the team and on the way, than the 2012 team did. It also has the veteran leadership and talent that the 2013 club had. I think it would be a major milestone to finish a .500 club this year, a competitive and relevant year, with the sites set on a 2013-2015 type run clearly in front of them. It’s currently a glass half full team like 2012 was, which, after a pandemic stalling rebuild, is almost what any fanbase could hope for.

    3
    Reply
  32. Dumpster Divin Theo

    2 years ago

    That’s a wrap on Reynolds. Good yr first wrexham now this

    Reply
  33. Datashark

    2 years ago

    All they are missing is the “We are family” song and the Willie Stargell Cap Stars

    Reply

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