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White Sox Rumors

White Sox Showing Interest In Michael Lorenzen

By Anthony Franco | March 12, 2024 at 11:37pm CDT

The White Sox have interest in free agent starter Michael Lorenzen, reports Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic. The right-hander is arguably the third-best pitcher still on the open market behind Blake Snell and Jordan Montgomery.

Chicago’s link to Lorenzen comes at a time when trade speculation around staff ace Dylan Cease has been rekindled. USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reported on Tuesday afternoon that the Yankees made a new offer for Cease. Not long after, Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News and Rosenthal separately indicated the Rangers had interest.

It’s not clear if the Sox’s interest in Lorenzen is strictly contingent on a Cease trade. Yet dealing their projected Opening Day starter would leave Chicago looking for innings, if nothing else. Cease tallied a team-high 177 frames over 33 starts a year ago. He has taken a full series of turns through the rotation in each of the past four seasons. Moving a pitcher with that kind of reliability just weeks before Opening Day could leave the coaching staff struggling to piece together innings.

That’s particularly true given the rotation uncertainty behind Cease. KBO returnee Erick Fedde will occupy a spot in the rotation. The Sox will probably give a rebound opportunity to Michael Kopech, who allowed a 5.43 ERA over 30 appearances last season.

Michael Soroka hasn’t logged an MLB rotation workload in five years, largely on account of two Achilles tears. Chris Flexen allowed 6.86 earned runs per nine a year ago. Jared Shuster had an ERA approaching 6.00 over his first 11 big league starts. Touki Toussaint is better suited for a relief role. Rule 5 pick Shane Drohan will start the year on the injured list, while depth starter Jesse Scholtens underwent Tommy John surgery last month. Garrett Crochet is battling for a rotation spot but would be on an innings limit if he secures a starting job.

Even if the Sox held Cease and signed Lorenzen, they’d be unlikely to have an average rotation. Lorenzen would at least raise the floor and mitigate some concerns the Sox could have about getting through a full season, though. He tossed a career-high 153 frames between the Tigers and Phillies last year. His 4.18 ERA was right around league average but belies a season of extreme peaks and valleys.

Lorenzen earned an All-Star nod with Detroit. He pitched to a 3.58 ERA through 18 starts as a Tiger before being dealt to Philadelphia at the deadline. His first two outings as a Phillie were brilliant, highlighted by a no-hitter against the Nationals on August 9. After that point, he was among the least effective pitchers in the majors. Lorenzen allowed an 8.01 ERA over his last nine appearances. The Phils kicked him to relief and only called upon him twice in the postseason.

It’s possible he wore down as he neared the end of his first full, healthy season as a starting pitcher. That presumably played a role in the extent of his dismal finish, although he never looked likely to sustain the low-3.00s ERA he carried into the middle of August. During his successful run in Detroit, Lorenzen didn’t miss many bats or induce ground-balls at a particularly high clip.

The poor finish has apparently held up his market. Rosenthal reported last week that Lorenzen continued to hold out in search of a two-year contract. He has played the past two seasons on successive one-year guarantees valued at $6.75MM and $8.5MM, respectively. Cease is slated for an $8MM salary for the upcoming season. If signing Lorenzen were conditional on a Cease trade, it’d probably be around neutral from a financial perspective — particularly if Lorenzen does move off his ask for a two-year pact.

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Chicago White Sox Michael Lorenzen

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White Sox Sign Brad Keller To Minor League Deal

By Steve Adams | March 8, 2024 at 12:14pm CDT

The White Sox announced that they have signed right-hander Brad Keller to a minor league deal. The Excel Sports Management client also receives an invite to major league Spring Training.

The 28-year-old Keller became a free agent for the first time following the 2023 season but didn’t hit the market at a particularly advantageous time. His 2023 season was cut to just 45 1/3 innings due to a shoulder injury and, eventually, a diagnosis of thoracic outlet syndrome. TOS is a particularly difficult issue for pitchers to return from, but it’s notable that there was never an announcement that Keller underwent surgery to correct the issue. If he indeed avoided going under the knife and was able to deal with his symptoms via rest and rehab, that could portend a more optimistic outlook than the common TOS surgery that has derailed many pitching careers.

From 2018-20, Keller logged a 3.50 ERA in Kansas City, going from a long reliever whom the team selected out of the D-backs organization in the Rule 5 Draft to an entrenched member of the Royals rotation. His 2021-23 seasons went in the opposite direction.

Dating back to Opening Day 2021, Keller carries a 5.14 ERA in 318 2/3 innings. His once-strong walk rate has climbed to an untenable 11.5% — including a ghastly 21.3% clip in 2023 while he navigated that shoulder injury and the perhaps related TOS symptoms. Keller limited opponents to a 4.5% barrel rate and 35.7% hard-hit rate through his first three seasons but has seen those marks leap to 8.4% and 42%, respectively, over the past three years. He’s lost about a mile per hour off his fastball as well.

Keller tried to revamp his repertoire in 2023, ditching his four-seamer and scarcely using his sinker while instead deploying a trio of new pitches: cutter, splitter, curveball. That mix didn’t work out, though it’s hard to glean just how effective those pitches may or may not truly be, given the health troubles that were plaguing him. Keller has long had a plus slider, although that pitch’s efficacy took a step back over the past two seasons as well, particularly in 2023 due to an inability to locate the offering.

Suffice it to say, Keller is a project for the White Sox organization. There’s little harm in taking a look on a minor league pact, but it’s been three years and one particularly ominous injury since he was last an effective big league hurler. He’s not likely to break camp with the club but could join veterans like Chad Kuhl and Jake Woodford as an experienced right-handed depth starter to begin the season in Triple-A Charlotte.

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Chicago White Sox Transactions Brad Keller

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White Sox Notes: Cease, Kopech, Colas

By Anthony Franco | March 6, 2024 at 8:16pm CDT

Dylan Cease was among the likelier players to be traded over the offseason. The White Sox stuck firm to an asking price that teams haven’t been willing to meet, though, and it seems the hard-throwing righty will instead be a top deadline candidate. GM Chris Getz declared at the start of camp that the Sox anticipate Cease being on the Guaranteed Rate Field mound on Opening Day.

That remains the case, assistant general manager Josh Barfield tells Daryl Van Schouwen of the Chicago Sun-Times. Barfield said that while opposing teams remain in contact with the Sox about Cease, there’s “nothing imminent” on the trade front. “We’re preparing him to be the Opening Day starter,” Barfield reiterated.

Barring a surprising acceleration in trade talks over the next three weeks, Cease will lead a rotation with a fair bit of uncertainty. KBO signee Erick Fedde is penciled into a spot. Getz has indicated the Sox prefer free agent pickup Chris Flexen as a starter, while trade acquisition Michael Soroka has a good chance at a rotation job. Returnees Michael Kopech and Garrett Crochet are battling for spots in camp.

While Crochet is stretching out from relief work to this point in his MLB career, Kopech trailed only Cease in starts for the team last year. That makes it seem likely he’ll be in the season-opening five, but manager Pedro Grifol indicated that isn’t a guarantee. “He’s getting built up to be one of our starters,” Grifol said of Kopech (link via Scott Merkin of MLB.com). “I know we want to talk about it, but I think in about another week, we’ll talk about it. Right now, everybody is just competing.”

Kopech indicated that while he prefers to occupy a rotation spot, he’s amenable to whatever role the team asks. The right-hander worked in relief in 2021, turning in a 3.50 ERA across 69 1/3 innings. He stretched out to the rotation two seasons ago. Kopech found success in his first season as a starter, outperforming middling strikeout and walk numbers to manage a 3.54 ERA in 25 appearances. His production fell off last year, as he allowed 5.43 earned runs per nine. No other pitcher with at least 100 innings walked batters more frequently. Kopech handed out free passes at an untenable 15.4% clip.

That was one of a number of disappointing performances for the Sox as they fell to a 101-loss season. On the position player side, rookie right fielder Oscar Colás had one of the more underwhelming showings. Viewed as one of the better prospects in a thin farm system, the lefty-hitting Colás managed only a .216/.257/.314 slash line over his first 75 games.  He was optioned to Triple-A midway through the season. Colás hit .272/.345/.465 over 54 games at the top minor league level.

Getz indicated that trade pickup Dominic Fletcher is in the driver’s seat for the right field job this spring. Colás has gotten some exhibition work at first base as he looks to expand his utility for a possible bench role. The Sox have used him exclusively in the outfield during regular season play in the majors and upper minors. Colás got scattered reps at first base early in his professional career in Cuba and Japan, so he’s not entirely unfamiliar with the position, but he conceded there’s an adjustment period as he tries to acclimate to the infield dirt.

“Right now, it’s just an adjustment. I can’t say I feel completely comfortable, but I’m working on feeling comfortable again there,” the 25-year-old told reporters via interpreter over the weekend (link via Merkin). “I’ll play wherever they want me to play. What I want is just to play baseball.” Colás isn’t going to be an everyday option there but could offer cover for Andrew Vaughn over the course of the season if the Sox trust him for regular season work.

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Chicago White Sox Notes Dylan Cease Michael Kopech Oscar Colas

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Jesse Scholtens To Undergo Tommy John Surgery

By Darragh McDonald | February 27, 2024 at 1:25pm CDT

The White Sox officially announced their previously-reported trade with the Cubs, acquiring left-hander Bailey Horn. To open a spot for Horn on their 40-man roster, they have moved right-hander Jesse Scholtens to the 60-day injured list with torn ulnar collateral ligament in his right elbow. James Fegan of Sox Machine was among those to relay that Scholtens will have Tommy John surgery on Friday.

Scholtens, 30 in April, was able to make his major league debut last year. He made 26 appearances, including 11 starts, logging 85 innings in the process. He had a 5.29 earned run average in that time, striking out 15.4% of opponents while issuing walks at an 8% clip. His work in Triple-A was stronger, as he made nine starts at that level with a 4.44 ERA, 23.4% strikeout rate and 6.8% walk rate.

He was likely going to be serving in a depth role for the club this year, given that he still has a couple of options remaining. The Sox have remade a lot of their pitching staff over the last year. They have traded Lance Lynn, Joe Kelly, Lucas Giolito, Gregory Santos, Kendall Graveman, Aaron Bummer, Reynaldo López, Yohan Ramírez and Keynan Middleton since last summer, while pitchers like Mike Clevinger and Liam Hendriks departed via free agency. They have also added guys like Erick Fedde, Chris Flexen, John Brebbia, Tim Hill, Michael Soroka, Jared Shuster and others, but there should be plenty of opportunity for a depth arm or two to step up and fill a role this year.

Unfortunately, Scholtens won’t be able to take advantage of that opportunity. He will miss the entire 2024 campaign and likely some early portions of the 2025 season as well, given that Tommy John rehabs generally run more than a year in length. He’ll remain on the injured list for all of 2024, collecting major league service time and pay.

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Chicago White Sox Transactions Jesse Scholtens

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White Sox Acquire Bailey Horn From Cubs

By Steve Adams | February 27, 2024 at 12:20pm CDT

The White Sox and Cubs have agreed on a trade sending left-hander Bailey Horn from the Cubs to the Sox in exchange for minor league righty Matt Thompson, per announcements from both clubs. Sahadev Sharma and Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported on the deal prior to the official announcement. Sharma reported last night that the Cubs were exploring deals to trade a pitcher off the back end of their 40-man roster, in order to open a spot for the newly re-signed Cody Bellinger.

Horn, 26, will return to the club that originally selected him in the fifth round of the 2020 draft. He pitched in the Sox’ system for a portion of the 2021 season but was traded to the Cubs in exchange for veteran reliever Ryan Tepera just over a year after being drafted. Current Sox general manager Chris Getz was the team’s farm director in 2020-21 and clearly saw plenty in Horn to like, given that he’s now reacquired the lefty.

Horn split the 2023 season between the Cubs’ Double-A and Triple-A affiliates, pitching to a combined 4.21 ERA in 65 innings out of the bullpen. He fanned a hearty 28.7% of his opponents but struggled with his command, issuing walks at a 12.5% clip. Baseball America ranked him 28th among Cubs farmhands this season, touting a fastball that sits 94-96 mph and a pair of potentially above-average breaking balls (a plus slider and a solid curveball). However, BA’s report also noted that Horn has a “violent arm action that yields well below-average control and significant injury risk.”

Now back with the South Siders, Horn will give the Sox a near-term option in the bullpen. He’s pitched exclusively in relief in each of the past two seasons and was only just added to the 40-man roster this offseason, meaning he has a full slate of three minor league option years remaining.

In exchange for Horn, the Cubs will receive the 23-year-old Thompson — a starting pitching prospect whom the White Sox selected in the second round of the 2019 draft. He started 27 games at the Double-A level in ’23, pitching to a 4.85 ERA with a 23.9% strikeout rate, 15% walk rate and 40.7% ground-ball rate. Scouting reports on Thompson tout a heater that reaches 97 mph and a potentially plus curveball, but like Horn he’s working to overcome below-average command. Baseball America tabbed him 30th among ChiSox prospects heading into the 2024 season.

Much like Horn, Thompson is a project who’s reached the upper minors but will likely need to make some refinements before earning a look at the MLB level. He’s pitched 109 and 124 innings, respectively, over the past two seasons. He could join the rotation in Double-A Tennessee or in Triple-A Iowa and will provide the Cubs with some upper-level rotation depth. The Cubs are increasingly deep in that regard, with names like Jordan Wicks, Hayden Wesneski, Ben Brown and Javier Assad all in the mix for their final rotation spot, and top prospect Cade Horton rapidly climbing the organizational ladder.

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Chicago Cubs Chicago White Sox Transactions Bailey Horn Matt Thompson

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Jose DeLeon, MLB Pitcher From 1983-95, Passes Away At 63

By Anthony Franco | February 26, 2024 at 7:05pm CDT

Former major league pitcher José DeLeón has passed away at age 63, according to a report from The Associated Press. His death was announced last night by the Leones del Escogido of the Dominican Winter League. DeLeón, not to be confused with the free agent pitcher who played for the Twins last season, pitched in the major leagues between 1983-95.

A native of the Dominican Republic, DeLeón entered the professional ranks in 1979 as a third-round pick by the Pirates. The 6’3″ right-hander pitched in four minor league seasons before reaching Pittsburgh. He had an impressive debut season, working to a 2.83 ERA and striking out 118 hitters in 108 innings covering 15 starts. He earned a seventh-place finish in NL Rookie of the Year balloting.

DeLeón would hold a spot in the Pirates rotation for a few seasons. He worked to a 3.74 ERA over 192 1/3 innings during his second big league campaign. He struggled to a 4.70 ERA with an MLB-leading 19 losses the next season. Midway through the ’86 campaign, Pittsburgh dealt him to the White Sox in a lopsided swap that landed future MVP finalist Bobby Bonilla.

Chicago plugged DeLeón into their rotation for the next year and a half. While he wasn’t anywhere close to as impactful as Bonilla became in Pittsburgh, he enjoyed a solid showing on the South Side. DeLeón turned in a 2.96 ERA in 13 starts after the trade in ’86 and logged 206 frames of 4.02 ball in 1987.

Over the 1987-88 offseason, Chicago flipped DeLeón to the Cardinals for reliever Ricky Horton and young outfielder Lance Johnson. He was a rotation fixture in St. Louis over parts of five seasons. DeLeón topped 225 innings in each of his first two years with the Redbirds. He had the best year of his career in 1989, pitching to a 3.05 ERA with a National League-leading 201 strikeouts across 36 starts. DeLeón again lost an MLB-worst 19 games in 1990 but rebounded with a personal-low 2.71 ERA over 28 appearances in ’91.

The Cardinals released him in August of the following season. DeLeón signed with the Phillies and remained in Philadelphia into the next year. He converted to the bullpen by 1993. The White Sox reacquired him for reliever Bobby Thigpen the next August. DeLeón reached the postseason for the only time in his career with Chicago, making two relief appearances in an eventual ALCS loss to the Blue Jays. He’d pitch in two more seasons, working with the Sox and Expos through 1995. DeLeón didn’t return to the majors thereafter, although he pitched in Taiwan until his age-37 campaign in 1998.

Over parts of 13 seasons, DeLeón tallied nearly 1900 innings while allowing 3.76 earned runs per nine. He struck out almost 1600 hitters with an 86-119 record. He surpassed 150 frames on seven occasions and donned five major league uniforms. MLBTR sends our condolences to DeLeón’s family, loved ones, friends and former teammates.

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Chicago White Sox Obituaries Pittsburgh Pirates St. Louis Cardinals

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White Sox Claim Peyton Burdick

By Steve Adams | February 23, 2024 at 1:48pm CDT

The White Sox announced Friday that they’ve claimed outfielder Peyton Burdick off waivers from the Orioles, who’d designated him for assignment earlier in the week. Chicago placed righty Matt Foster on the 60-day injured list to open a spot on the 40-man roster. Foster is recovering from Tommy John surgery performed late last April and was therefore already likely to miss at least the first 60 days of the 2024 season.

Burdick will turn 27 on Monday. The righty-swinging slugger has seen limited big league action over the past two seasons in Miami, though the Marlins traded him to the O’s for cash earlier this month after also designating the former third-round pick for assignment. Burdick is just a .200/.281/.368 hitter with a huge 38% strikeout rate in the majors, although that comes with a notable small-sample caveat, as he’s tallied just 139 plate appearances. He’s hit for a low average but shown power and plate discipline in the upper minors, slashing .214/.324/.424 in 952 Triple-A plate appearances. Burdick has gone down on strikes in 32.7% of his Triple-A plate appearances as well, but scouting reports have long been enamored of his plus-plus power and above-average speed.

Miami selected Burdick with the No. 82 overall pick back in 2019, and he posted huge numbers up through the Double-A level as he climbed the ranks in their system. His bat has stalled out in Triple-A and the big leagues, but Burdick’s blend of easy right-handed pop, speed and an ability to play all three outfield positions still make him an intriguing depth pickup for a White Sox club with ample uncertainty in the outfield. Burdick has a pair of minor league options remaining as well, so he can be sent to Triple-A Charlotte with his new club without needing to first clear waivers.

The White Sox are leaning toward trade acquisition Dominic Fletcher as their primary right fielder to begin the season, and they’ll have Andrew Benintendi in left field and Luis Robert Jr. in center. Burdick could make the club as a fourth outfielder, though he’ll face competition from veteran Kevin Pillar, who’s in camp on a non-roster deal and could give the South Siders a righty-hitting backup outfielder off the bench as well. Oscar Colas, Zach DeLoach and first baseman/outfielder Gavin Sheets are among the ChiSox’ other outfield options on the 40-man roster, though each hits left-handed.

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Baltimore Orioles Chicago White Sox Transactions Matt Foster Peyton Burdick

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White Sox Rule 5 Pick Shane Drohan Undergoes Shoulder Surgery

By Steve Adams | February 22, 2024 at 3:56pm CDT

White Sox left-hander Shane Drohan, whom they selected out of the Red Sox organization in the 2023 Rule 5 Draft, underwent a nerve decompression procedure in his left shoulder this morning, manager Pedro Grifol announced (X link via Sox Machine’s James Fegan). The Chicago skipper also revealed that free agent signee John Brebbia is dealing with a calf strain, but the team is hopeful he’ll still be ready for Opening Day.

The current hope is that Drohan will be able to begin a throwing progression by the end of camp, though that will obviously depend on how his shoulder responds in the early stages of his recovery. The 25-year-old southpaw posted excellent numbers with the Red Sox in Double-A to begin the 2023 season before struggling to a 6.87 mark in 89 frames upon being bumped up to Triple-A Worcester. That sample of 89 innings was the first point of real struggle for Drohan to this point in his professional career. He’d posted a combined 3.57 ERA up to that point, leaning heavily on a plus changeup that makes him particularly effective against right-handers.

The Sox haven’t provided a timeline for Drohan’s recovery, though he’ll certainly open the season on the injured list. He’ll accrue big league service time and pay during that time. His status as a Rule 5 pick prevents him from being optioned to the minors. Drohan will need to spend the entire season on the White Sox’ big league roster and/or injured list — with 90 days on the active roster — in order to shed his Rule 5 status for the 2025 season. If the White Sox want to drop him from the roster at any point, he’d need to be placed on waivers and, if he clears, offered back to the Red Sox for a nominal sum of $50K.

Brebbia, 33, signed a one-year, $5.5MM deal that contains a mutual option earlier this offseason. He’s expected to be in the late-inning mix in Chicago after the Sox dismantled the bullpen with offseason trades of Aaron Bummer and Gregory Santos (and, prior to the summer deadline, trades of Reynaldo Lopez, Kendall Graveman and Keynan Middleton).

Over the past two seasons in San Francisco, Brebbia has posted a 3.47 ERA with a 22.5% strikeout rate and 7.1% walk rate. He picked up 24 holds in that time and might’ve logged more, had it not been for his frequent usage as an opener on the team’s patchwork pitching staff.

If Brebbia is forced to the injured list to begin the season, an already unsettled Sox bullpen will be even more wide open. Veteran lefty Tim Hill signed a big league deal this offseason and is assured one spot. Righties Touki Toussaint, Jimmy Lambert and Deivi Garcia are out of minor league options and likely have an inside track on another three. Southpaw Garrett Crochet is an option, but GM Chris Getz spoke earlier this month about wanting to honor the southpaw’s desire to build up as a starter.

The Sox have a large stable of experienced veterans on minor league deals this spring, with Jesse Chavez, Corey Knebel, Dominic Leone, Bryan Shaw and Joe Barlow among their NRIs in camp. Trade acquisition Prelander Berroa, waiver claim Alex Speas and draftees Tanner Banks and Sammy Peralta are all on the 40-man roster as well.

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Chicago White Sox John Brebbia Shane Drohan

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Latest On White Sox’s Stadium Plans

By Anthony Franco | February 21, 2024 at 10:08pm CDT

Last month, the White Sox announced plans for a potential new stadium on Chicago’s South Loop. Justin Laurence of Crain’s Chicago Business reported last week that the organization was seeking roughly $1 billion in public funding for the project.

Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf traveled to the Illinois capital to meet with state officials yesterday. Chicago mayor Brandon Johnson spoke with reporters this afternoon and sounded broadly open to the possibility of approving money for both the White Sox and NFL’s Bears.

“I’m grateful that both organizations are committed to having these conversations. As far as financing these projects, both organizations know that they have to put some skin in the game. They’re expressed a commitment to do that,” Johnson said (link via Fran Spielman of the Chicago Sun-Times). “As far as public dollars, we haven’t gotten into any of those specifics just yet. But I will say that we’re going to explore all options. But we have to make sure that we’re doing right by the people of Chicago. … Everything is on the table here. But again, I want to make sure there is a real commitment to public use and public benefit.”

It’s not clear how much the White Sox plan to invest in the project. They’ll surely continue discussions with both city and state officials as they look to drum up funding. The team’s lease at Guaranteed Rate Field runs through the 2029 season. The stadium opened in 1991, making it the eighth-oldest park in the majors.

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White Sox’ Edgar Navarro To Undergo Tommy John Surgery

By Steve Adams | February 20, 2024 at 9:13pm CDT

White Sox reliever Edgar Navarro is slated to undergo Tommy John surgery in early March, the team announced to reporters Tuesday evening (X link via Scott Merkin of MLB.com). He’ll miss the 2024 season as a result and could be sidelined early in 2025 as well.

Navarro, 26, made his big league debut with the ChiSox in 2023, pitching 8 2/3 innings out of manager Pedro Grifol’s bullpen. He was tagged for seven runs on 11 hits and a pair of walks with nine punchouts in that brief cup of coffee, with the bulk of the damage coming in one nightmare outing that saw him yield five runs in a lone inning of work. Chicago outrighted him off the 40-man roster in December to clear a roster spot for free-agent signee Erick Fedde. Injured players can’t be placed on outright waivers, so the fact that Navarro was outrighted a couple months back suggests this is a new injury that occurred in the offseason.

In the upper minors, Navarro has enjoyed better run prevention but still displayed shaky strikeout and walk tendencies. He notched a combined 3.59 ERA between Double-A and Triple-A in 2023 but did so while fanning just 19% of his opponents against a 16.1% walk rate. Navarro kept the ball on a huge 59.8% clip in the minors and at a 53.8% clip in the big leagues, leaning hard on a sinker that averaged 93.6 mph. That’s an encouraging trait, but he’ll need to drastically improve his K-BB profile if he’s to find sustained success at the game’s  top level. The injury in question will prevent his ability to refine that K-BB profile for at least the next year.

Navarro has never been considered among the White Sox’ top prospects, due in no small part to his poor command. He’s shown the ability to miss bats at times and has consistently piled up grounders at borderline elite levels, but the 6’1″ righty has also walked 12.8% of his opponents across all professional levels and plunked a whopping 44 batters in 273 professional innings. In all, he’s allowed 16.2% of his opponents to reach base without even putting a ball in play.

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