And The Offseason Begins

The Cardinals have been crowned the unlikely world champs, so now it's time for all baseball fans to offically focus on 2007.  Here's a roundup of the latest rumors.

With the Tigers' season over, the consensus among local papers seems to be that they will trade some of their excess starting pitching for a slugger, possibly a first baseman.  Some folks think Jeremy Bonderman's postseason performance (3.10 ERA in 20 innings) was a sign that he will take it to the next level in '07.  Others think it's time to trade him with his value so high.  Possible trade targets:  Mark Teixeira, Todd Helton, Richie Sexson, Adam Dunn, Manny Ramirez, and Pat Burrell.  It's certainly feasible that Brandon Inge, Nate Robertson, or Craig Monroe could be included in a trade.

We'll know by November 11th whether Aramis Ramirez will become a free agent.  Right now, he's not close to a deal with the Cubs.  While Ramirez's current deal is often cited as two years and $22.5MM, the third year is pretty easily guaranteed at $11MM.  He just needs to play 270 games over the first two seasons.  We hear a lot about the Dodgers and Angels as Ramirez's suitors.  The Dodgers would force top prospect Andy LaRoche to move from third base if they sign Ramirez.  Other teams that could have interest: the Orioles, Red Sox, Tigers, Rangers, Giants, and Padres. 

The Sheffield Saga continues, with the Astros and Indians entering the mix.  A one-year rental from the Tribe would be a great fit in my mind.

Comments

[OPERATIONSHUTDOWN]

Interesting on the Astros interest in Sheffield. There are three possibilities here.

A)Sheffield is a backup plan in case they can't sign Carlos Lee.

B)Sheffield and Carlos Lee are part of a plan to lure Clemens and Pettitte back for one more WS run.

C)The Astros intend to trade Luke Scott and possibly Taveras in a package for a franchise outfielder such as Carl Crawford, Rocco Baldelli, or Vernon Wells.

I think option A is the most likely and B the least likely. The Astros probably wouldn't gain a whole lot by replacing Luke Scott with Sheffield. While Luke Scott's not a lock to replicate his 2006 production (1.047 OPS), his track record suggests that he can, in fact, swing it at a high level. They're both brutal right fielders and both carry their risks (Sheffield's age, health, temperament, and BALCO connex vs. Scott's limited track record). However, Scott will be playing at the major league minimum and Sheffield will cost over $10 million. Actually, the more I think about it, the more improbable scenario B gets. You only exchange a cheap slugger under club control for a long time for a player that's as young and is guaranteed to produce at a high level. Crawford is that guy, Baldelli's probably not healthy enough to count on, and Wells might be too expensive.

The Astros have a great thing going with Luke Scott and Willy Taveras, top notch defense in center and excellent hitting in a corner spot for $600 grand. You only break that thing up if you can get a premium young player back in a package... like Willis, Wells, or Crawford.

Scott and Hirsh the big pieces in a deal for Crawford?

Tampa is unlikely to part with CC, so it's most likely that this is just a backup plan for El Caballo if anything more than NY fishwrap gossip.

[Kramerica Industries]

"Others think it's time to trade him with his value so high. Possible trade targets: Mark Teixeira, Todd Helton, Richie Sexson, Adam Dunn, Manny Ramirez, and Pat Burrell"

Of this group Bonderman is only traded if its Texiera Dunn or Manny of that group you mentioned

[start_wearing_purple]

I agree with Kramerica... A Bonderman/Dunn or Texeria/Bonderman trades seem most likely if Detroit deals Bonderman. Texeria will be the most costly since he's younger cheaper and gets better contact, but hey, maybe Leyland can turn Dunn around.

Though ultimately if Detroit deals pitching I more see Ledezma being dealt rather than Bonderman.

[Ankur]

You are not getting a slugger for Ledezma though...

[start_wearing_purple]

Of course not, but you may get a halfway decent prospect. The point being the Tigers would hold all their aces and if Bonderman, Maroth, Robertson, and Verlander all improve next year then You have a damn scary rotation for a couple of years especially with Miner taking over for Rogers in 08

[EasyMi]

Maybe if the Tigers threw in Rodney too. He could close for alot of teams.

[was385]

I have a couple rumors. All of which revolve around the braves.

1. Carl Crawford for Chuck James/Kyle Davies and Anthony Lerew. This would certainly give them the young talented pitching they want and Maddon loves Chuck James.

The next couple are Andruw Jones Rumors via Bill Shanks (http://braves.scout.com/2/583042.html). And these are just the best ones that I am posting.

2. YANKEES - Okay so the obvious trade is Jones for Alex Rodriguez and a little cash. Then the Braves could turn around and trade Edgar Renteria for pitching help. I think the Braves might investigate a Jones-for-A-Rod deal, but you can’t tell what the Yankees might do with their troubled third baseman. So instead, we came up with this: Phillip Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and Scott Proctor for Andruw. The Braves get a top pitching prospect, an outfielder, and a reliever they were interested in back in July.

2. RED SOX - We decided to stretch this out a bit and include Tim Hudson in this deal. Andruw and Hudson for Josh Beckett, reliever Craig Hansen, outfielder CoCo Crisp, and outfield prospect Jacoby Ellsbury. This deal would allow Hudson and Beckett to go back to their original leagues, where they may recapture their previous success. The Braves would get a young reliever in Hansen, who was mentioned in rumors about Andruw back in July, along with two outfielders – one in Ellsbury being a great prospect.

3. ANGELS - This did not take long. Ervin Santana, Scot Shields, and Chone Figgans for Andruw and Lance Cormier. The Braves get their young ace in Santana, a quality setup man for Bob Wickman in Shields, and an outfielder that could also serve as a leadoff man. This was by far the preference of most every poster in the chat room.

4. RANGERS - Forget Mark Teixiera. He’s a client of Mr. Boras as well. The Rangers have two great pitching prospects, so we’ll take either John Danks or Thomas Diamond along with shortstop Michael Young. We’re going to move Young to second base to replace the traded Giles and then groom Danks or Diamond to be a top of the rotation starter in 2008.

5.DODGERS - This is an interesting team. We’d love to have Chad Billingsley, but it’s doubtful the Dodgers would give him up. So we’ll take Jonathan Broxton, who is a Georgia boy and who can be the future closer, along with outfielder Matt Kemp, and a lefty pitching prospect named Scott Elbert.

[was385]

"C)The Astros intend to trade Luke Scott and possibly Taveras in a package for a franchise outfielder such as Carl Crawford, Rocco Baldelli, or Vernon Wells."

-OPERATIONSHUTDOWN

There is one HUGE problem with this. Crawford isn't moving anywhere for position players and even more so for OF's. The only way they would consider trading him is for great young pitching because they already have Baldelli/Crawford, Delmon Young, Elijah Dukes, etc. They need pitching because aside from that, this team is set in the next couple years.

OF- Crawford, Baldelli, Youg, Dukes
C- Navarro
1B- I think they are talking about moving Guzman there.
2B- Elliot Johnson
3B- Upton
SS- Brignac

[RotoAuthority]

Rays are currently trying Dukes at 1B I believe.

[RotoAuthority]

And don't forget about Evan Longoria, who could be the best 3B in the minors next year.

[was385]

good point, I guess I skipped over him because he was drafted this year; and they are trying dukes at first in fall league.

[was385]

is upton, longoria, or guzman going to move into the OF then if CC or Baldelli is traded?

[Kramerica Industries]

The Red Sox wont trade Ellsbury he is there untouchable prospect

[was385]

I don't see why, this guy is not a great prospect in any sense. Little power, not an incredible basestealer percentage wise. I don't know how good defensively but he is not a top 100 prospect kind of guy. Good, not great

[Kramerica Industries]

Hey was give me another link to were you got that Braves info the one you gave doesnt work

[OPERATIONSHUTDOWN]

was385... Hirsh represents one of the top 5-10 pitching prospects in the game. After a brutal first few starts he showed some exceptional ability throwing multiple pitches for filthy strikes. He's a flyball pitcher, which makes him a better fit in Tampa than Houston.

If they traded Crawford, a quality, cheap young guy with some nice credentials like Luke Scott could fill a hole in left or DH. They certainly wouldn't turn down Scott on account of Dukes... remember Hunsicker handpicked Scott and Taveras out of the Indians organization in the Jeriome Robertson deal. He probably feels pretty smart about that one and vindicated by Scott's 2006. Sure Baldelli and Young are locks in that OF if Rocco can stay healthy. But most people presume either Rocco or CC will eventually be dealt, and nobody is counting on Dukes.

You can name all the OF prospects in the world... but none of 'em posted .336 .426 .622 in the majors last year, as Scott did. Had he qualified (only 244 PA), he'd have been 6th in the bigs in OPS.

It's possible Tampa won't accept position players and will demand Hirsh plus one of the filthy guys at Corpus, like Patton, Albers, or Estrada (134 K in 88 IP). But Tampa had the lowest OBP in the majors last year and a team SLG of .420... adding more kids from AAA isn't neccessarily the solution and I think Luke Scott is exactly the type of player that would interest them. I don't think they want to recreate Durham 2.0 with Dukes, Young, and Upton the core of the franchise.

[Kramerica Industries]

It was interesting to me anyway that in Buster Olney's chat a few days a go he said that he thinks Mark Mulder will be a Red Sox-Wade Miller # 2?

[youalreadyknow]

Will everyone please stop with these BS rumors and propositions of the Rays trading Carl Crawford for the Kyle Davies and Luke Scott's of the baseball world.... it's not going to happen. I know it's nice to think your team can rape and rob the last place team in baseball, but the new management in Tampa is not stupid.

People everywhere are acting like the Rays NEED to trade CC. He's not a free agent for about 4 years and has a team friendly contract... he's only being traded if the DRO is overwhelmed by a trade offer that is likely to be centered around front-end major league pitching. Not #5 starters, not fringy outfielders, not AAAA players, not swingmen, not A ball prospects, and not 28 year olds who just cracked the majors. FRONT-END MAJOR LEAGUE CALIBER PITCHING.

*End of rant*

Also, I'd have to say that Baldelli isn't being traded at this point. With Dukes being out of favor in Tampa and most likely to emerge as a future 1B in a Rays uniform, there is no CF ready to overtake Rocco. If Upton moves to the OF, he's going to need time to get accustomed to the position.

Don't expect one of CC or Rocco to be traded until the AS break at the earliest. Most other MLB teams don't value them as much as the Rays and that makes it highly unlikely that an overwhelming offer will be made this offseason.

[Kyle]

The Rays are solid position player wise but I dont expect Upton to stick at third. He will probably move to outfield so they will have Upton, Young, Baldelli, Crawford, Gomes, and Dukes in the OF. Their first baseman of the future is Wes Bankston he could be ready by mid way through next season. Guzman will probably play DH and Longoria will be either their thirdbaseman or second baseman. They haev great young hitters they just need pitchers.

[was385]

how are Chuck James (who rays management loves), Anthony Lerew, and Kyle Davies who was one of the top pitching prospects in baseball a year ago raping and robbing the rays. They need good, YOUNG, pitching and these guys are future number one and two pitchers.

[youalreadyknow]

Wes Bankston is far from the 1B of the future going into 2007. He has a lot to prove in AAA this year. Guzman's bat isn't even close to being a DH bat and he also has a lot to prove in AAA this year to be a major league quality bat at any position. If his bat ever does make the leap, then he'd probably play 3B instead of being DH'd since Gomes is clearly the DH of the club with no space for him to play in the OF.

[was385]

but there is no room at third. Longoria and Upton

[youalreadyknow]

What are the ceilings of James, Lerew, and Davies in the AL? For you to call them future #1/2 pitchers proves to me that you're either a Braves homer or absolutely clueless about the ceiling of a pitcher.

James, who I like as a pitcher, is probably a #3 at best in the AL.

Lerew and Davies aren't even rotation candidates in the AL at this point. They are bullpen guys who might fit into the #4/5 spot if they can pull it all together.

Why would the Rays want this package for one of the top outfielders in baseball and a local favorite player who is locked up through the end of the decade?

Quite frankly, the DRO would be better off taking Ervin Santana alone for CC which I'd also consider a bad move.

Not to mention, 40 man space is getting very slim for Tampa Bay and they can't afford to keep the Lerews of the world who would probably end up back in AAA along with tons of other AAAA pitchers in the Rays system.

Also, this notion that the Rays need any good young pitcher is getting overused. The Rays quite possibly have the best pitching in the minor leagues in terms of future major league rotation depth. Counting guys in the majors under the age of 25... Kazmir, Niemann, Shields, Talbot, Sonnanstine, Jackson, Hammel, Davis, McGee, Walker, Howell, Hellickson, Barratt, Houser, Mason.

The Rays do need pitching, but they don't need guys with the potential to be #3/4 guys if things go right. They need a #2/3 major league ready pitcher to slot behind Kazmir or a near major league ready frontline starter (think Homer Bailey/Adam Miller).

[youalreadyknow]

"but there is no room at third. Longoria and Upton"

Longoria has already said he'll play anywhere on the infield and is comfortable at 2B, SS, and 3B. My money is on him sliding over to 2B to replace Cantu, who has become horrible defensively.

Upton isn't a lock at any infield position until he learns defensive fundamentals like throwing with accuracy.

With Longoria, Guzman, Upton, Brignac, Zobrist, E.Johnson, and Cantu fighting over 3 infield spots and maybe 1 OF spot depending on whether Baldelli/CC are traded... I'd expect 1 or 2 of that group to be traded by Opening Day 2008.

[was385]

major league ready frontline starter (think Homer Bailey/Adam Miller).

53. Kyle Davies, rhp, Braves
54. Franklin Gutierrez, of, Indians
55. Mark Rogers, rhp, Brewers
56. Edwin Encarnacion, 3b, Reds
57. Curtis Granderson, of, Tigers
58. Merkin Valdez, rhp, Giants
59. John Danks, lhp, Rangers
60. Chris Burke, 2b, Astros
61. Sergio Santos, ss, Diamondbacks
62. James Loney, 1b, Dodgers
63. Jesse Crain, rhp, Twins
64. Aaron Hill, ss, Blue Jays
65. Nick Markakis, of, Orioles
66. Ryan Harvey, of, Cubs
67. Jeff Mathis, c, Angels
68. Javier Herrera, of, Athletics
69. Brandon League, rhp, Blue Jays
70. J.D. Durbin, rhp, Twins
71. Cole Hamels, lhp, Phillies
72. Brandon Moss, of, Red Sox
73. Clint Nageotte, rhp, Mariners
74. Andy LaRoche, 3b, Dodgers
75. Billy Butler, 3b, Royals
76. Kendry Morales, of, Angels
77. Joaquin Arias, ss, Rangers
78. Fred Lewis, of, Giants
79. Guillermo Quiroz, c, Blue Jays
80. Ezequiel Astacio, rhp, Astros
81. Neil Walker, c, Pirates
82. Ubaldo Jimenez, rhp, Rockies
83. Brandon Wood, ss, Angels
84. Brad Snyder, of, Indians
85. Mark Teahen, 3b, Royals
86. Kyle Sleeth, rhp, Tigers
87. Joey Gathright, of, Devil Rays
88. Angel Guzman, rhp, Cubs
89. Russell Martin, c, Dodgers
90. Jeremy Sowers, lhp, Indians
91. Jon Papelbon, rhp, Red Sox
92. Jake Stevens, lhp, Braves
93. Richie Gardner, rhp, Reds
94. Hayden Penn, rhp, Orioles
95. Josh Fields, 3b, White Sox
96. Tadahito Iguchi, 2b, White Sox
97. Huston Street, rhp, Athletics
98. Ian Kinsler, ss, Rangers
99. Anthony Lerew, rhp, Braves
100. Greg Miller, lhp, Dodgers

this is the 05 top 100 (53-100) from BA and Davies is listed ahead of some guys named Huston Street, Jon Papelbon, Angel Guzman, Cole Hamels, Brandon League, and John Danks. You are right, he is AWFUL

[was385]

"With Longoria, Guzman, Upton, Brignac, Zobrist, E.Johnson, and Cantu fighting over 3 infield spots and maybe 1 OF spot depending on whether Baldelli/CC are traded... I'd expect 1 or 2 of that group to be traded by Opening Day 2008."

That would be Longoria, Guzman, Upton, Zobrist, E.Johnson, and Cantu fighting over 2 infield spots. Brignac is one of the top three SS prospects in baseball and probably top ten or even five overall. This guy is incredible

[youalreadyknow]

You're taking prospect lists far too literally... especially ones from 2 years ago.

Kyle Davies has command issues and doesn't have ace stuff... put those two together and you're looking at a #3/4 pitcher at best.

Prospect lists are in constant change and are outdated the month after they are made. If you want to run back to outdated prospect lists, then why not look back and say that the Rays don't need any pitching since they have Edwin Jackson who used to be a top 5 prospect in baseball and Jeff Niemann who used to be a top 20 prospect.

BA has been wrong countless times before and will be proven wrong on more than a few players when their new top 100 list is revealed.

[was385]

Davies does have incredible stuff including a nasty breaking pitch and very good fastball. He has shown mild control problems but people do gain control. are you forgetting he is only 22? Generally BA is correct and Niemann is still a good prospect. Have you ever seen him (davies) pitch? If you did you'd know he has top of the rotation stuff

[OPERATIONSHUTDOWN]

Well, nobody ever trades an ace... ever, for anybody, unless it's a rental and Florida doesn't count. So if TB wants to acquire frontline pitching they gotta settle for the Ervin Santanas and Jason Hirshes of the world and the cost is likely to be Carl Crawford... Verlander, Felix and Francisco ain't coming. Otherwise, TB is gonna have to hope the farm system pans out... so far it hasn't produced any frontline MLB pitchers (Kaz don't count).

There's this huge misperception that Tampa is dealing from a position of strength with respect to position players... by my count they have 5 guys who have proven to be solid MLB players. Only two of them can be pencilled in for 162 games of quality production.

Crawford-superstar
Baldelli-injury prone w/ superstar potential
Young-all that and a side of fries
Gomes-erratic, injury prone, with power
Cantu- erratic, inury prone, with pop (fading?)

Upton hasn't done anything in the bigs but commit errors, Bankston had a nice sub .800 OPS this year, and Longoria proved he can hit in A ball. Guzman hasn't ever played to expectations in the minors either. Dukes is an extremely talented running punchline. So it's not as if one of the worst offensive clubs in the majors would turn down offensive help and just roll with the kids and a laughable rotation. That being said... as I said in my original post, I think it's highly unlikely Tampa trades Crawford for that very reason.

But they need pitching and they need quality players to fill up the diamond.

Scott cracked the bigs at 26, Ryan Howard did at 25... both of them were the best offensive players the second half of 2006. I guess neither one of them will threaten Hank Aaron or Pete Rose, other than that, I can't see what the big fuss about age is. Does it mean they've likely neared their ceiling... yes... but it's a pretty high ceiling.

I realize 250 PA is a relatively small sample for Scott, but it's not like he had a Swisher/Shelton year... he hit consistently, regardless of situation. His SLG wasn't skewed by HR and his OBP would still be good if he hit .270 instead of .336. He hit singles, doubles, triples, and bombs. He's been doing this at every stop since 2004 (AA, AAA, ST, Venezuela) the only exception being the two weeks he was the Astros starting LF in April 2005. After that he was buried in Round Rock for a year and a half, where he kept on mashing. He shouldn't be blamed for getting a real window of opportunity until post-ASB 2006. But no, he's not as sexy as a former #1 prospect like Upton or Guzman, who has proven absolutely nothing at the MLB level.

[youalreadyknow]

I've actually seen Davies pitch three times... twice in 2005, once in 2006.

He doesn't have ace stuff. His fastball was around 92-94 and he has a great change with an average curveball that he still needs work on to throw more regularly.

The Rays already have a guy with a low-90's fastball and outstanding changeup, his name is James Shields. The difference being that Shields has outstanding command while Davies is still working on his. I also think Shields' changeup is better than Davies.

You're right about him still being young and I think he can become a solid #3 guy for the Braves, but the AL East is another ballgame. Teams like the Rays need to get guys who can handle facing the Yanks/Sox lineups on a regular basis... and that means pitchers with control and plus stuff (see Verlander/Zumaya this postseason for an example).

[youalreadyknow]

I've had this argument with another Astros fan trying to compare Luke Scott to Ryan Howard.

Here's the bottomline.

Ryan Howard is about 6'4" and 250 lbs.
Howard had an 1157 OPS in a neutral league and a pitchers park in AAA at age 25 before making his splash at the major league level.
Howard's walk rate spiked drastically this season which is what made him the elite player he is today.

Luke Scott is 6'0" and 210 lbs.
Scott had a 941 OPS in a hitters league in AAA at age 27/28 before making his splash.

There simply is no comparison besides each player having a great 2nd half in their rookie season.

Howard's breakout came 3 years earlier, Howard has a full 4 inches and 40 pounds on Scott, Howard had an OPS about 200 pts higher in AAA while being in a pitcher friendly environment, and Howard's rise to stardom was largely due to progression in his plate discipline after he reached the majors.

One thing I did like about Luke Scott's season is that he only hit 1 of his HR's into the Crawford boxes which means that his power is legit to both sides (although he hadn't really shown much power up the middle).

[was385]

And the reason Howard is drawing so many walks is that he is one of the most feared hitters in the major leagues and people are pitching around him to get to the weak part of the order.

[OPERATIONSHUTDOWN]

I'm not saying Luke Scott is as good as Ryan Howard... just saying you don't have to be like Ken Griffey Jr. or A-Rod to be an excellent player.

Scott's power to center is likely reflected in his 6 triples and 19 doubles... it's tough to hit 'em out of center in MMP... just ask Richie Sexson. Scott had that OPS above 1.000 every month in the second half. What's most impressive is that it was 1.009 in September when he hit just .268. He strikes out as much as you'd expect, but he walked every 8 PA, which is pretty good for a rookie.

No he's not as big as Ryan Howard, but I think there is a salient comparison in that they were both exceptional rookies who broke into the bigs later than most prospects. They both played ball in college, and Scott was beset by injuries at the beginning of his pro career. Luke's been exhibiting good plate discipline as well.

Looking at Scott I see a guy who mashes righties, around a 1.300 OPS in 2006, who can hit for average and power. He's decent against lefties, around .800 OPS.

I think the biggest contribution to Howard's success was settling into a consistent spot/role in the lineup and learning to hit lefties.

[Rayman]

What do you think the Yankees would want from the Indians for Sheffield? Cliff Lee and a prospect? Some young bullpen arms and outfielders? Thoughts?

[Baseballfan79]

Pretty amusing debate over atlanta or Houston getting crawford or baldelli for such trades.

I think you could see the fish push hard to dukes or baldelli. But, crawford is as close to untouchable as a player can be in mlb guys.

They want elite young arms that are good now not guys that were top 100 prospects 2 years ago and havent been anything that wonderful. Or luke scotts whom put up good numbers in AAA hitter's leagues.

remember they dont have a turn off Gm smarts button in real life like they do in mlb games on the PS2

[wihargo]

the Idea of the Rays using Elijah Dukes at 1B is pretty interesting. if you buy into MLEs, he might be good for 260/355/410 or better. And I am sure, at least 1 incident. You know, after all, "bad attitide" is the new OBP.

[Kyle]

How about Scott Olsen for Rocco Baldelli. Olsen has #1-#2 stuff hes a lefty. Baldelli would give the fish a good young center fielders. You could fill in both sides with young prospects to make it even.

[buehrlebro]

It would take more than Olsen alone. Baldelli was phenominal in the time he played last year and he seems to have shed his injuries.

[OPERATIONSHUTDOWN]

Baldelli was great, but between the two hammys, ACL, and the TJ, there isn't anybody that will overpay for his incredible upside.

I guess I get the picture on Luke Scott, since he had to toil in the PCL like Rick Vaughn had to toil in the CPL (California Penal) nobody takes him seriously. His worst month was an OPS of 1.009 (didn't know the NL was a "AAA hitter's league") but it doesn't matter cuz BA don't know his name and he's not 21. Guys like Scott and Chris Duncan get no love... last I checked Scott almost led a legendary comeback and Duncan won a WS. But Duncan was the 8th best Cardinal prospect according to BA. Scott wasn't even in the Astros Top 10 (and he did qualify).

"They want elite young arms that are good now not guys that were top 100 prospects 2 years ago and havent been anything that wonderful. Or luke scotts whom put up good numbers in AAA hitter's leagues."

Sorry, I thought a 6'8" 250 lb pitcher who can hit the high 90s but isn's a max effort pitcher, throws 4 pitches for strikes, had a 46 2/3 IP scoreless streak in that "AAA hitter's league", and started the Futures Game qualified as an elite young arm.... Jason Hirsh, read up sometime. Bottom line, Astros farmhands are consistently underrated by baseball fans and writers because they ALL spend more time in the minors and are drafted out of college. All these guys magically end up with plate discipline (even the woeful Jason Lane), but they get no love at all. Last I checked the Astros farm system had produced 4 guys on HOF trajectories in the past 15 or so years (5, counting Santana)... Biggio, Oswalt, Berkman, and Wagner. That track record makes me feel pretty good about guys like Scott and Hirsh.

[Kyle]

See at least from my perspective Luke Scott isnt a bad idea because of talent he is a bad idea because of age. For a team like the Astros a 28 year old has value because they are going to be competitive in his prime. But if you ship him to the DRays its a waste. The DRays arent going to compete next year 2008 or 2009 are the years the DRays should be aiming to be somewhat competitive. In those years Scott will be 30 and 31 he will already be on his way out of his prime so a guy like that doesnt help the Devil Rays at all.

[MadMatt15]

just stop it about luke scott will all of you, yes he was great and i think will continue to be good but crawford is NOT MOVING. period. the new management in tampa signed him to a long deal for a reason. baldelli prob wont be moved at all either but isn't untouchable.
and if i hear luke scott in a crawford trade 1 more time i will flip.