Howard Looking For Pujols Money?

Jim Thome's contract forced the Phillies to keep Ryan Howard in the minors after he had proven he was ready for the big leagues.  The situation is currently paying off, as they are capturing Howard's peak seasons very cheaply. 

Yesterday they handed the zero-leverage Howard a record-tying contract, and he does not sound happy.  If you read between the lines of his comments, it's obvious he feels he deserved more money.  Howard's rejection of a one-year deal for more than $900K (as opposed to the renewal sans incentives he received) sends a bitter message.  Randy Miller, unlike some of the other Philly papers, snagged a more direct quote:

"Go ask them," Howard blurted out in a raised voice. "They're the ones with all the money." 

Todd Zolecki of the Philadelphia Inquirer notes that Howard is probably looking to exceed the seven-year, $100MM deal Albert Pujols has (which is a bargain for him).  Howard's agent Casey Close told Baseball America they expect to surpass Chase Utley's 7/85 contract if they go long-term.

Howard is an offensive superstar, no doubt, but there seems to be an unjustified sense of entitlement here.  Whether it's driven by his agent or Howard is uncertain, but agents work for players.  Players with 1.5 seasons in the bigs have to pay their dues; the reward is being overpaid upon reaching free agency.  My gut says Howard will not sign a long-term deal or be a Phillie five years from now.

That's not to say the Phillies shouldn't consider locking him up despite the fact that Howard turned 27 last November.  They just have to be careful about projecting the 2014 performance of a player whose top comparables are Mo Vaughn (large decline at age 31, out of baseball at 35) and Travis Hafner (a DH).  Howard can become a free agent after the 2011 season, when he's 31.

One final thought: I think the Phillies should've renewed Howard at $1.5-2MM; it would've sent him and the public a much better message about getting a long-term deal done.  $900K might tie a record, but only if you ignore inflation.  Jim Salisbury agrees, saying even another $100K would've made a symbolic difference.

Comments

[xxxJamesxxx]

My hope is that they go year to year on Howard, go to arbitration, because they will surely be paying below market value, then let him walk when he hits free agency. He's going to drastically decline around age 33-34, no use overpaying after you got a significant discount on his best seasons. For all of the "poster boy" treatment he gets, he does say some strange things, and he does seem a bit conceited. This isn't the first time something like this has happened.

[scatterbrian]

Howard is the new Cecil Fielder [#6 comp.]. He probably hit his peak in homers last season, and I can't get past the high strikeout and low doubles totals. I'd also let him walk after free agency, and the Phillies are playing it smart. Pat Burrell leaves a pretty wicked aftertaste.

[SiddFinch]

Hey Roto, can you please start monitoring for inflammatory, profanity laden posts which add nothing to the discussion like the above. If you can't or won't ban non-contributing posters, can you find some way to get an "ignore member" feature. I don't post much, but I do read nearly every comment. IMO, letting the children rant and swear detracts from the credibility of the site.

[ckremer]

I agree with Sidd Finch. BSOX21 is over the line. I love the site but don't want to read this garbage. (Constant reader, rare poster_

[ArodSucksAtLife]

I hate him cause he is a minority. A good athlete in Philly.

[JerseyMetFan]

One full season, 58 HRs, and you want to compare him the one of the greatest hitters ever? Pass whatever it is that you're smoking. I want some of that.

I hope he leaves Philly as a FA. Let him get out of the NL East.

[stlredbirds]

if they were to hand him a full million, then every young guy guy is going to expect it and cry to the media if they don't get it. the guy should just feel fortunate to be able to get payed to play baseball

[RotoAuthority]

Agreed, way over the line. I believe the site would be helped by a moderator so I will look into this.

[PeteRose]

The Phillies lack of vision did end up screwing Howard...he probably should've been in the bigs alot early, costing him more than a few dollars and because of that they probably should've given him more than they offered to make up for the years he spent toiling in the minors. But, I agree w/ James and won't mind seeing him walk after five peek seasons of service. Keeping the weight off as he gets older will be tougher each year.....he's a future DH.

[Chase035]

i'm usually against the whole race card being thrown here and there. But I think he actually has a point. The Phillies really did an injustice to this guy for so long, pushed back his clock, and now he is in his prime making peanuts. I think its extremely unfair to criticize Howard for a sense of entitlement. You can't wrong someone and then criticize them for feeling slighted. He kept his mouth shut then, and was respectful. Give the guy a break.

And don't tell me this is a "business" decision. In business ethics 101, this is what you call a 'no-no.' In the short term, yea, they saved themselves some money. In the long term, they did some damage to the reputation of their organization.

[RotoAuthority]

He wasn't wronged, even a little bit! Do you hear Robinson Cano complaining? Chien-Ming Wang? Can we use the race card there too?

Do you actually think the Phillies pushed back his clock because he's black? That is absurd. They did it because he can only play one position and was blocked by a massive contract. Are you saying it was unethical to not trade him for 75 cents on the dollar because of it?

[Chase035]

i dont think he was that over the top, he felt like the post and comments were doing Howard a disservice. I know it likely wasn't intended, but I actualy agree. I got a little riled up myself. Going to college in Philly, I know what Howard means to that organization and the urban community. Criticizing any feeling of entitlement took it a little too far, albeit unintentional I'm sure.

[RotoAuthority]

Race doesn't even need to be in the discussion here. The trade demand and public frustration with 900K, neither are justified by any player in his situations.

[was385]

Bobby Cox just said today he will retire after 2008, check out Tomahawkmania.blogspot.com for all the details

[PeteRose]

"Going to college in Philly, I know what Howard means to that organization and the urban community."

You do? going to school in Philly does not make you privy to the mindset of an entire city nor any race of people in that city and if you did go to school in philly, the one thing you would've picked up is that this is impossible ----"Going to college in Philly, I know what Howard means to that organization and the urban community."
--its been rock bottom for quite awhile, although they are trying.

[PeteRose]

sorry this what's impossible -"In the long term, they did some damage to the reputation of their organization. "

[Chase035]

Wang and Cano? Don't get the link there. I'm not suggesting Howard was held back because of race, that'd be crazy. But I do think its wrong to criticize him for feeling slighted.

Howard is literally bringing the city to the ballpark. The Phillies were once an ignored species. Now the inner-community neighborhoods are caught up in the possibilities and going to the ballpark. Howard jersey's are sported everywhere. The Phillies had a chance to trade him. They also could have dealt Thome earlier. Baseball wise, they would have been better for it. They could have even brought Howard up. While I don't blame them for any of those baseball decisions, they must now understand what this guy means to their organization. In my opinion, his is the most valuable marketing opportunity in the game. No single player (Bonds an obvious exception) can bring together a community of fans like Howard. Not giving the guy the money he deserves is sending a poor message to the fans. Its a worse business decision then giving Meche $55 mil.

[Chase035]

sorry about the "i got to school in philly thing." I hate to speak as if I'm more aware of a situation then others. I've just personally witnessed the tension that these criticisms can create.

[stlredbirds]

how is he sending a good message to th fans when he's making comments in the media bashing the Phillies organization? If the guy is such a great role model, why doesn't he discuss it with them in private instead of thrusting it all into the public eye?

[Chase035]

because he has no leverage. Baseball itself violates every concept of U.S. fair trade.

The whole system of "a player is a team's property" for the first 6 years, is already in violation of the laws of interstate commerce. Baseball is given exceptions for various reasons. It kind of pisses me off when they take things even further tho, as if teams are entitled to exploit these guys as much as the system allows. It's undermining market mechanisms.

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/16577336.htm

the city loves this guy. The black community there has stood on his back last year. The team is only going to create tension when "one of their own" isn't being justly rewarded. Is it fair to use the race card? No way. Of course they aren't doing this because he is black. That doesn't mean they aren't slighting him in the mind of their fans. And in the end, thats all that matters.

[RotoAuthority]

Wang and Cano have similar amounts of service time and both make the league minimum without complaint.

Are you saying Howard deserves special treatment because A) he keeps black fans interested B) his numbers were great or C) because he was stuck behind Jim Thome?

[RotoAuthority]

Yes, baseball's system is unfair for young players. I am pretty sure Howard knew that going in and that if affects all young players.

Yes, the Phillies did not handle this correctly. And yes, Howard is out of line.

[RotoAuthority]

Is it the Phillies' fault that fans don't understand baseball's salary structure? They need to do what makes the most sense for the franchise, and 7 years/110 mil or whatever might not be it.

[Chase035]

I don't understand the logic there. Why should he or anyone accept something that is unjust?

I assume your answer will be that it is his time to pay his dues, like other players have.

If Curt Flood had that line of thought, players would still be getting exploited today. No other player in recent memory has suffered as much as Howard will. He will not be a free agent until he is what? 32.5? In winning the MVP in his second year, he proved that he could have contributed earlier. Had that been the case, he wouldn't stand to lose all the money he now does because he won't reach free agency until he is on the decline.

I think he is entitled to feel like the situation has affected him personally. It has. He's been a stand up guy. Kept his mouth shut this entire time. If he now wants to voice his frustration, that is his right. Most of Philly seems to be on his side.

[Chase035]

i'm not saying they should give him a huge, long contract. I think the general sentiment here is/will be that the $900K is a major slight. To that I agree, and if someone wants to suggest he is entitled to feel slighted, i can't help but agree.

[Chase035]

By the way, this guy will make them $100 million in marketing alone. He has brought the black community to the ballpark. In the baseball sense, that might not seem like a great deal (actually, it seems like a bad one). But baseball, as you yourself are suggesting, is a business. Marketing is part of the business. And this guy is worth more than any other player outside of Bonds in attracting fans. It's like Dice-K. The black community in Philly hasn't always be enamored with the game. Its a chance to bring baseball to the inner city markets. Its exactly what Selig has suggested the game needs to do. And i dont understand where you're coming from coming down this hard against this guy feeling like he has earned that kind of pay day.

[jmonahan7]

if they lost him to free agency, and he keeps hitting 45-50hr's like he is now, the fans would go with him and the teams would go down the crapper. that would probably be the worst loss of a single player to the Phillies since they traded Rolen.

[Slayer]

900k, millions in endorsements, millions more in arbitration...damn the injustice that Howard has to go through.

[Chase035]

supply and demand... he isnt being payed his equilibrium wage. It's pretty simple.

Where would you rather that money go? The owner's pocket? Or the guys who are actually raking in the dough for the team? Capitalism, Capitalism, Capitalism. Unless they're a pro-athlete.

[Slayer]

He isn't being paid his equilbrium wage? Huh, I guess everyone whose been at their job for 1.5 years should be paid like the people who have been producing for long periods of time. Good news for me because I'm about hit that point myself.

[xxxJamesxxx]

The bottom line is simple. The smartest teams in baseball don't make a ton of "emotional decisions" when it comes to handing out contracts and money. Sure, it would have been nice to make it an even $1M, but why does it matter? The goal should be winning. Ryan Howard should be thankful the Phillies dumped one of the best power hitters of this generation for pennies on the dollar to make room for him on the roster.

Sure, he was kept in the minors longer, but he's been an instant hero, and because of it, he's gotten a ton of opportunities. He might not have been ready to be a full time big leaguer in 2004. The Phillies were in the middle of a playoff race that season and had Jim Thome at 1B, they had no place for him. As great a prospect as Howard is, he wasn't in Thome's universe in 2004/beginning of 2005.

How many minor leaguers can you think of have demanded trades before they even had 1 year of service time in? Seriously. I love Ryan Howard, dude rakes like no other, but he needs to get a grip. He seems like he has a good family and support system, but they need to remind him that he isn't above the game of baseball, and he has to play by the rules of the game.

[usctrojans31]

Chase035:

Are you a sociologist, psychologist, psychiatrist or urban planner?

If you are none of the above, which is a fair assumption seeing as how you said you're in college, then your opinion isn't a very credible one. For you to sit here and say that the Phillies running their business efficiently is having a converse effect on a community is asinine.

He is being paid above and beyond what someone on the job for a comparable time is being compensated. For him to cry foul is a tad superfluous.

If someone is in a contract job, say at Microsoft, and they're a programmer who has just developed Vista, they were just granted a 300% salary increase, but demanded a trade to Apple, how would the public react? Would they crucify him? Chances are yes, they'd point to the fact that his salary more than tripled. This is capitalism, if he doesn't like it, he's welcome to leave the country and try to play baseball elsewhere. One is rewarded at their own scale.

Cuba has a great baseball program, perhaps he can delve into communism.

There is no reason to go long term with Howard. He came to camp 15 pounds heavier; what happens when he gets paid and comes to camp 50 pounds heavier?

Now if you want to point out that you go to college in Philly, I've lived here my whole life, so don't play that card.

This is a city that cares more about what someone looks like and wants to pass the blame. Bobby Abreu is one one the best hitters of our generation and he was ridiculed here. Pat Burrell is one of the best outfielders in this game and yet everyone wants to rip him. Aaron Rowand and Sal Fasano can't hit, field or play to save their lives, yet they are revered.

Before you make generic claims, know your market.

[Slayer]

Well Rowand can field some, but your point is still good.

[Chase035]

"on the job for a similar amount of time"

He's been paying his dues in the minors for years, there is no reason that should not be considered service time.

I can't really make sense of the various points you raised. What were you trying to say about capitalism?

My point was that this isn't capitalism. There isn't a free market. Market mechanisms are being constrained. If he was a free agent this year he'd make over $10 mil. Instead he is making $900K. So if he feels entitled to more, that's cause he is.

And what makes an opinion credible? I have to have a title? So if I were Joe Schmoe sociologist you'd feel better? Should everyone start listing their qualifications here to have an opinion? My background is sufficient that I feel qualified to make the statements I have made.

[SiddFinch]

"He has brought the black community to the ballpark."
Chase, I'm willing to listen to any arguments, but you need to cite some statistical evidence when you throw out a claim like this.

[Slayer]

Well this isn't a laissez faire society so it doesn't matter what Howard feels hes entitled to, because he simply isn't entitled to it.

[beeniez]

Howard has an attitude problem. He should be happy he got his $900k. That's more money than some people make in a lifetime and you're getting it to play baseball. Why don't you buy some maturity with that new pay raise.

[Slayer]

By "this" I'm referring to the baseball society.

[pinetarhand]

"Howard has an attitude problem. He should be happy he got his $900k. That's more money than some people make in a lifetime and you're getting it to play baseball."

By this reasoning, people who work at McDonalds shouldn't complain about how much they make because people in China make 10% of what they do & work harder for it.

What about the training a team puts into a player? Even in a free market, a business expects to get returns on their investment, that investment being the paying a player for x amount of years without getting value out of them. Many businesses have training programs for their employees where they pay for schooling if the employee agrees to work for the company for a certain amount of time. Now, I really don't know how much money a team puts in to their minor league system, but I do know that some players are paid bonuses & the such after they are drafted (how much did the Cubs sign Samardzija for?) If he didn't want to be a part of an organization & play by it's rules, he didn't have to sign when he was drafted.

Baseball players have a union. That union has made the decision to agree to these rules. They've done a lot of things to protect their players (from steroids & making sure a contract is upheld unlike the NFL) and a lot of this is at the expense of the youngsters. The Phillies are playing by these rules. If Howard has a problem with the system, the real problem here that Chase is pointing out, then shouldn't he start with the union? If people want a free market in baseball, then they should ask for the same type of FA system as the NFL, where a player is paid much closer to market value when they are drafted & there is no such thing as loyalty to a player. If the player gets hurt playing or gets over the age of 30, F U cuz you just lost a whole lot of money.

As Chase pointed out, Howard has no leverage here, which is exactly why he should keep his mouth shut. Unless he thinks that he's going to singlehandedly change the entire system, the only purpose his complaining will do is labeling himself with a trouble-maker tag. While it probably won't hurt his market value, it does hurt his marketability, which in the end will cost him endorsements. He probably has a 0% chance of making more money from Philly by complaining, but he does have a chance to get endorsements.

[Chase035]

"Well this isn't a laissez faire society so it doesn't matter what Howard feels hes entitled to, because he simply isn't entitled to it."

Says who? You? The UCC says he is. That's that funny little set of regulations that governs our country's economic transactions. Have a look.

At any time, the U.S government could intervene at will to enforce the violations of the UCC that baseball currently takes part in.

Only reason they don't is because the player's union has sacrificed the interests of players with less "years of service" for better conditions among older players. That seems reasonable for most. But Howard now stands to suffer after paying his dues for longer than most in the minors. If he wants to feel a bit frustrated, that's his right.

In terms of your request for support, i direct you to

1) philly sports blogs...

http://beerleaguer.typepad.com/beerleaguer/2007/02/phillies_market.html

http://diamondinq.blogspot.com/2006_07_13_diamondinq_archive.html

"He also was the main attraction for the third-highest attendance in Phillies history." - Philly.com

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061120&content_id=1744594&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi

2) Reflections on the state of the game...

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_40/b4003093.htm

The guy has pretty much kept his mouth shut. That's why I thought the post went a little too far. We'd all feel slighted in his situation. He's handled it well. The criticism is unwarranted.

[zubes007]

The Phillies should have given him exactly what he deserves...which is $380,000.

[hirule7226]

err not to nitpick, but: "At any time, the U.S government could intervene at will to enforce the violations of the UCC that baseball currently takes part in..." is not true. The UCC is a model code that has been individually adopted by the states, in various forms. So it is actually the States themselves that would have to enforce the law. However, as baseball has an anti-trust exemption under Federal law, and Federal preempts State law, the entire point is moot.

[PeteRose]

"Says who? You? The UCC says he is. That's that funny little set of regulations that governs our country's economic transactions. Have a look."

America is NOT a laissez faire society - pure, uncontrolled, unregulated, free trade does not exist in this country. Its the only system that bans force from social relationships and calls for a separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church. In America the government interferes with economy on the most minute levels. In fact there's barely a trace of capitalism in this country, just a very thin veil.

[RotoAuthority]

Quite a debate we've got raging here...I smell a poll topic.

[beeniez]

Roto, I saw where you did an article of people who improved this spring - coming to camp lighter, working on a new pitch, added muscle, etc. Can you do an article on people who came to camp out of shape? I read a comment on how Howard showed up 15 pounds heavier, could be the start of something very bad in his future. Showing up for spring training out of shape can greatly affect the upcoming season (ie Renteria's first season in Boston)

"By this reasoning, people who work at McDonalds shouldn't complain about how much they make because people in China make 10% of what they do & work harder for it."

Similar, but still different. Several things come into play that doesn't allow for that reasoning to work. One, athletes are vastly overpaid to begin with. The ratio of pro and amateur ballplayers' pay is not even in the same ballpark as the ratio of China and USA McD's workers. Two, Howard is complaining about not having it good enough. Not only does he take for granted the fact that he plays a sport for a living that most would kill to be able to do, but he's complaining about not being paid millions upon millions for doing it. Three, he already proved that he has an ego problem. He sits in the batter's box and admires the home run he just hit - even as a rookie.

[quintjs]

Two issues i would like to comment.

First - Roto make a great point about Howard being blocked by Thome's contract, rather than Thome.

Not many teams can eat large contracts, when they sign them, that player is going to play, no matter what.

Second, while I agree Howard could get more, there is an element of he has 1.5years major league experience, and he is doing a lot better than other guys in the same boat. Whats Papelbon getting, Verlander, almost literally every guy on the Marlins. Pretty sure Howard is out-earning the Marlins rotation.

On the Marlins, what about Miguel Cabrera, he would look at this deal and think "you lucky ($W@#". He had to drag the Marlins kicking and screaming to get the smallest pay rise.

Basically some people with the Micheal Young syndrome, want to overpay for past performance, or for holding a guy back.

There is a element of just pay him the necessary amount until FA and let him go. It might not be the worst idea.

The best one would be lock him up with a long term deal to stop this scenario happening again.

[Chase035]

fundamental difference... cabrera is 23. He won't miss out on free agency during his prime years. Howard will. This stands to affect Howard more than it has any other player in the modern era because no other player has been kept in the minors as long and then had that kind of success, MVP in his second season. He won't be a free agent until he is 31 or 32, and that is what makes this different than any of the other players being mentioned. Giving him $1.5 million instead of $900K would have been a more profitable decision for the Phils. They wouldn't have to endure the flack that they are about to get from the black community, who is already really pissed (type in Ryan Howard, $900K onto google and you'll see what I mean). Agree with that or not, how is that good business to create that tension with your fans.

And athletes aren't all overpaid. There's been tons of literature on this. Howard is easily an example of the type of athlete who will never be overpaid. He's a marketing gem, a guy who can single-handedly appeal to the most alienated fan base in the game. This isn't a matter of my opinion, its what MLB has said repeatedly. According to Selig, the Ryan Howards and Dontrelle Willis' are instrumental to the marketing of the game.

And what quintis mentioned, about Thome and playing him just cause they signed him. That's called a sunk cost. What quintis mentioned is one of the single most damaging mistakes management can make.

[sportsfaninphilly]

Some of my comments may be controverial, but I feel that we sometimes look at things in a way we hope would also benefit us. As far as free agency is concerned, that's the worst thing that could have happened to sports. Curt Flood had choices when he said he was a $90,000 slave. He could have looked for another job outside of baseball, but he knew that he wasn't going to make that kind of money outside of baseball. Every athlete has the freedom if they choose to walk away from their sport and take up another endeavor. If you think you have that same opportunity or freedom within your job, think again. Their pension is continuous no matter who they play for. See if you can do that working for different companies. As far as Ryan Howard is concerned, yes he should have gotten more money than they gave him. If you look at the stats in the minor leagues, and Thome production the first two years in Philly, why would you bring up Howard and sit Thome. It's my hope that they sign Howard to a long term contract, and keep this team intact. Philly has always been tight with their money or misspent it. Let's go Phillies.