White Sox Sign Scott Linebrink

They lose out on Hunter and then turn around and give Linebrink almost $5 million a year as a setup man? I guess he's only spending the savings from the O-Cab/Garland deal, but this is a move that could look really ugly soon. Linebrink really dropped off last year, and moving to the AL and it's most HR friendly park isn't going to help any.

Leave it to Kenny Williams to make the wrong move. Linebrink got lit up by the NL Central after he came over from the Padres. He hasn't been good since 2005. But maybe Williams feels he's better than the rest of the crap he's got in his bullpen. If he got hit by the NL Central, can you imagine what the AL hitters will do to him?

Sometimes I wonder if the White Sox actually employ scouts. Someone please pull the plug on this movie, I can't bear to watch anymore. Next you'll tell me that they signed Rowand for 6/90.

^when was the last time KW overspent on a FA?

but anyways, linebrink probably won't do that great in the AL, but i don't see why everyone is saying he got lit up once he left Petco. His hit rate and walk rate both rose, but that seems like an aberration to me. usually bigger field equals more hits allowed, and the walk rate was about 1BB/9 innings higher than it has been in years.

the more important thing is that his k/9 rate went back to 8.88 once he left the padres, and his hr/9ip actually went back down closer to his career numbers.

the signing won't save the bullpen, but i don't think it's as bad as everyone seems to think. J.C. Romero getting 3/12 for 36.1 good IP is far more ridiculous, and that signing is what set the market. If Romero gets 4M annually for 3 years, why wouldn't linebrink get 4.75 for 4?

And to think, last winter it would have taken Mike Lowell to get Linebrink...oh how times change.

Wow, people here are so full of sh*t. How is it a bad signing when you bring in one of the best setup men over the last 5 years. Regardless of what league he's in now, the guy can pitch. I don't buy the "he fell off last year" stuff. When you're traded midseason you're obviously gonna have to go through an adjustment period. Good signing by the Sox, no matter how people try to spin it.

Hahaha, so this is the type of move KW was talking about when he was making the claims to being a contender this year? 4YR/19M to a pitcher who saw back-to-back worst seasons of his career ~ in SAN DIEGO!!! Huh, putting him in the AL, let alone Chicago, seems a brilliant idea…

***Rolls eyes***

Seriously, 4 years??? And that was 19M??? Wow, I'm in shock…

Slightly above averge? Name 10 better middle relievers the last 4 years... Oh wait, you cant. I already proved he's not a product of the park, when he has very good road splits the last few years.

The problem with the Sox in 2007 started with the bullpen. Once that was exposed, the starters had to go longer, the offense had to score more, and the defense had to play perfect. Acquiring the best setup man available seems smart. If the bullpen gets better, the rest of the team can relax and more games can be won. I lost count at the number of games in 2007 that were handed over to the bullpen to hold and the bullpen lost the game. This is a good signing that makes sense.

I can't believe people are so down on this move. The bullpen is obviously the biggest concern, and while it is a lot of money for a setup man, I don't have any problem with it at all. As long as it means less Ryan Bukvich, I'm happy.

Guys, the Phillies are not trading their 900 OPS 35 HR guy for Joe Crede, who isnt very good anyway, not to mention he is always hurt. Especially since they traded Bourne. A lot of white sox fans seem to think other teams will overpay for their garbage. All we heard was how they were going to ask for top prospects when they traded Garland/Dye/Buehrle bla bla. They didnt get much for Garland, held onto contreras too long, didnt trade Thome. They should have unloaded that team july last year. Crede might be okay if he stays healthy. In philly he might even post a .290/.340/.500 but still. From Burrell you are getting a pretty much gaurunteed .255/.390/.500 every year. As for teh Linebrink signing, I dont mind it. They definitely overpaid, but sometimes you have to be willing to take a hit in that last year to get the guy that you want. He should be pretty good for them.

Linebrink was within .50 of *LgERA with SD in 06, .30 of *LgERA there last year and within 1.0 of *LgERA in Mil. So, the last two years he has been .50-1.0 within *LgERA…

…That puts him about 3.70-4.30 in Chi ~ hardly “Ohh, ahh” and not even close to worth 5M a year for the next 4!

The team has a ton to do and could have made a much better splash than signing a huge contract to a reliever struggling to stay below LgAvg as of late…

A 3.55-3.80 ERA in the NL is among the best for a *reliever*? You sure about that ~ seems rather “Avg” to me…

Then include the declining WHIP, SO/BB, SO/IP, etc… Well, “one of best” seems like calling Willis “one of the best SPers” because of his numbers 3-4 years ago…

Here, lets do it in reverse though, what specific stats provided the last two years point to him being one of the best RP to you? Seriously, which stats scream “wow” or "impressive"?

First, stop with the numbers from 03-05 ~ his recent numbers haven’t looked anything like those so why would you include them as if they should be expected?

Second, ok…
2007 @ Petco ~ 2.10 ERA
2007 as whole ~ 3.71 ERA

2006 @ Petco ~ 3.19 ERA
2006 as whole ~ 3.57 ERA

…so, if we go all the way back to 2005 then we realize that his numbers were not effected that year ~ but the last two it has kept his ERA much, much lower than it would have been…

But really, why the obsession with 05 when trying to dictate players worth? Oh wait, we are talking about the ChiSox huh ~ NM…

And he didn’t pitch “much better” the last two months ~ he only pitched better in Sept. His ERA in Aug was 5.40 (not 3.09) and Sept was 2.31 (not 1.42) ~ so not sure where you got those... But do wonder why he was a bit better in Sept… Oh yeah, maybe it had something to do with facing Sept Call-ups from teams like Hou, Cin, Pit, Stl…

Anyway, give me something else, none of that says “better than Avg”…

FYI,

We know his numbers were 2.10 ERA and 3.19 ERA the last two years in SD. But lets figure out specifically what they were away from SD…

07 ~ 70.1 IP – 25.2 IP = 44.2IP / 29 ER – 6 ER = 18 ER
2007 ERA away from Petco Park ~ 4.63

06 ~ 75.2 IP – 36.2 IP = 39 IP / 30 ER – 13 ER = 18 ER
2006 ERA away from Petco Park ~ 4.15

Total ~ 83.2 IP / 41 ER
Total ERA the last two years away from Petco Park ~ 4.41

Humm, there wasn’t a RP avail who has had a better ERA than 4.41 the last two years?

Oh, and as an FYI ~ the NL Avg ERA has been 4.43 and 4.49 the last two years ~ that seems rather close to his 4.41 “Away from Petco” ERA huh? Add in the approx .30-.40 affect from the NL to AL and Linebrink could be looking at a ERA in the 4.70-4.80 range playing for the ChiSox if he stays that close to LgAvg…

Again, really ~ what is the logic behind *this* guy! Sure, he is “one of the best BP arms avail” ~ but by name only, not production! His Production hasn’t been that hot at all for 2 straight years ~ hence SD trading him in the middle of a playoff push… The only logic behind it is “the Sox need RP”, but if the RP they bring in is no better than the ones they already have but are giving him one of the highest contracts out there... well then, it seems to defeat the logic doesn’t it…

lol

4.41 era the last 2 years, actually not, it was in the mid 3's and those were his worst seasons in the last few years, 31 isnt old at all, you cant take away players stats, a lot of pitchers and hitters perform better at home, that's comical to even post.

accept the facts......
His era the last 5 years has been among the best for middle relievers, deal with it, specualate all you want, facts say other wise.

Humm, well I didn't factor the SD to Chi numbers so you are kind of right...

Let's do that then...
SD has a *LgERA of 4.04
Vs a *LgERA of 4.74 in Chi.

So, we can add .70 to his SD numbers to factor the SD to Chi change. His 2.75 2Yr ERA in Petco then becomes 3.50

Then, his numbers away from Petco were 4.41 ~ add the AL to NL change and you have 4.70ish

Then factor the two and you have a 4.10ish ERA ~ but that's an avg, and his 07 numbers were even worse than 06 so... And there is the chance that his stuff is just made for Petco' and if he pitches near LgAvg in Chi like he has on the road then his ERA would be 4.74 & 4.70ish evenly ~ ie 4.70ish as a whole...

So, you should probably expect somewhere between 4.10-4.70 based off his last couple years ~ and I'm betting closer to 4.70... Anywhere in the range and he isn't any better then internal options though...

So, I say you should accept the facts ~ the guy just doesn't translate into a good pitcher for your team period, esp at that horrible cost...

Cordero?

"Yea I get it, 4yrs is too much but guess what, when you want one of the top RP in FA you gotta offer something good just like how Carlos Silva is gonna get a good contract even tho he posted a 4+ ERA and that was prolly one of his better seasons."

This is retarded, that is retarded and that makes this not retarded???

Posted by: ArodSucksAtLife,
“Can the White Sox not get Linebrink's production from a AAA reliever? Or at the very least something damn close to it that doesn't cost 19 million over 4 years?”
…Exactly!!!

But they are still trying to argue this as if it makes sense so lets check it out even more then…

Ok, seems that Linebrink had the 93rd best ERA in baseball of all RP with 40+ IP. So there were only 92 *better* relievers in baseball, and that’s not factoring in how many games he played in pitcher heaven SD, let alone the NL. Putting that in the AL where he will face powerhouse Cle and Det as well as Min so often, then teams like NY, Bos, Ana, etc… Yeah, he’ll probably be much better in Chi than he was pitching in all the Pitchers Parks up the Cali coast vs low-scoring teams like LA, Arz and SF…

BTW, Linebrink was 93rd right ~ well, there was 180 total RP with more than 40IP ~ so he comes in a little below the midway point even with the NL + SD advantage. Then when you factor NL only he actually ends up at #57 ~ out of only 96! That’s nearly 2/3 the RP in the NL having better ERAs!

Ahh, but I know there really isn’t any reason to worry or question this deal ~ he’s only going to one of the more hitter friendly parks in Baseball so it shouldn’t be a problem at all, right? Yeah, how can anyone think this deal is stupid… :\

Cordero I do not consider a real option for the white sox. He is considered a top flight closer while the sox needed a middle RP / Setup.

And no the Sox could not just bring up a AAA reliever to fill this void. Does anyone remember last season when the Sox probably went through about 6 or 7 AAA RP last season and not one of them posted Linebrink's numbers.

Again, Kerry Wood will get at least 5m a year, is he that much better than Linebrink? An injury prone RP/Setup man will get a better contract than Linebrink, is that gonna be a terrible signing or since he is an Ex-Cub it will be considered smart.

Hell if Romero is getting 4m a year as a lefty specialist why wouldn't a proven setup man get 4.75m?

Face it, nowadays this is how much players get. I agree 4years is a bit much, but 3years would have been fine. The Sox probably had to add an extra year to get the RP they wanted.

I can only think of Kerry Wood as another option the Sox could have taken...who else is out there? No not francisco cordero who is gonna get probably 10m a year.

Linebrink is a good pitcher. he was VERY overpaid, but he still helps the white sox out, but over payed.

Ill put this in a nutshell, he helps out the white sox on the field, but devastates them financially.

“The Sox one huge need (actually for the last 2 seasons) was a RH setup man. The lack of one really cost them 10-15 games last season and enough gmes in 2006 to cost them a chance at a playoff spot.”

If only there was a way to fix that problem without having to pay for a bottom-half BP arm off the FA market….
…Oh yeah, KW could have done what he told us he wanted to do ~ ie trade Garland for two BP arms instead of shipping their best trading chip off for a slight upgrade at SS. See, when a team has huge holes/questions at like 1/3 the positions on the field and throughout the bullpen, trading you best chip for a slight upgrade at one of the few positions you have filled seems, well, idiotic…

But, instead he keeps the payroll exactly where it was last year by retaining Dye/Buehrle & trading Garland salary relief when Cabrera & Linebrinks contracts are combined. Now the team will sign their OF guy, end up with a high total salary than the 2007 club and still be no where near competing. Or maybe you all feel a team which apparently has no BP arms worth a damn in the minors will be solid…

Follow this part closely...how is he so so bad? I've asked countless times for someone to name a better RHP in the FA market and so far I've heard Francisco Cordero?? a guy who will get about 11m.

Linebrink had an off year, so what. His off year would have been the 2nd best arm in the Sox pen. I'll take that any day.

"Follow this part closely...how is he so so bad?"
Uhh, did you just join the conversation?

Posted hours ago:
“A 3.55-3.80 ERA in the NL is among the best for a *reliever*? You sure about that ~ seems rather “Avg” to me… Then include the declining WHIP, SO/BB, SO/IP, etc… “

We are talking about a guy with:
4 straight years of increasing WHIP (from 1.036 to 1.322 total)
an ERA jump from 2.14 & 1.83 to 3.57 & 3.71
a HR total from 4 in 73IP to 9 in 75 and 12 in 70
a SO total from 70 in 73IP to 68 in 75 to 50 in 70
a H total from 55 in 73IP to 70 in 75 to 68 in 70

But would you really like to know who is better in the market, try anyone without 3 straight years of declining stats…

And like ArodSucksAt mentioned earlier, does this being crappy and that being crappy mean this is less crappy? Just because his declining numbers haven’t gotten worse than what you tried last year, it doesn’t make him any better. If you have crap and go out and buy more little flashier but rapidly rotting crap it doesn’t mean you end up with anything less than crap. But everyone has proven how he isn’t very good anymore, can you provide anything other than “he was better then the crap we had” to say he is good?

“Well by saying its a terrible signing when it obviously improves the team seems a lil short sighted.”
…You mean that you cant “help the team” when you make a “horrible signing”? If that is true then why don’t they sign guys like Cordero and Dotel to 5/100M contracts? If they would “help the team” then they cant be “horrible signings”, right?

“ Just bc he isnt a shut down RP doesnt mean he's complete ass.”
…Well, Avg and declining isn’t that far from being a “complete ass”; esp when you are making “shut-down RP” money for 4 years… And his ERA was within .20 of the NL RP Avg last year despite his SD-helped numbers so the argument against it being true seems more “short sighted” then anything…

“He easily makes the Sox pen better and will probably post a 3.5 to 4.00 ERA in my opinion. I'll take that over all of the Sox relievers outside of Jenks.”
…3.50-4.00? Not sure how you expect him to be getting so much better after 3 years of plummeting numbers and the move from not only the NL to AL but also SD to Chi; but to each their own I guess…

Otherwise, cool deal; glad youre happy…

“Yes, paying someone 4.75m is the same as 20m a year to help improve the team. If he is so overpaid I honestly ask by how much, 500k? So I guess throwin out an extra 500k to improve your team is the same as throwin an extra 15m.”
~ it was a joke taking your illogical “it was needed so there really isn’t such thing as a bad deal” argument to the extreme… What is he worth? 3yrs, maybe 3M max if you think you can somehow fix him… Unfortunately GMs act just like many fans though and get all gitty when they see a “name player” with success a few years ago ~ hence the reason that there are so many contracts teams are trying to unload each year… They seem to learn slower than fans do…

“Since when is 4.75m shut down money? Didnt Cordero just get 11.5m and he is not the most shut down RP out there?”
~ uhh, closer to BP-Arm. We are talking “regressing, AVG-ish BP arm now making 4.75M for the next 4… Who is the last non-closer/future-closer to even sign a 4 year deal? (I seriously know there has to have been more than a few, but none jump to mind…)

“Actually his numbers improved away from SD last year post trade.”
~ Actually, that’s not really even true… His ERA dropped a tiny bit but only in the away category, and he also had a ton of luck in doing that with it being mainly a product of his competition late.

His .276/.349/.418 line against while with Mil dictates more runs should have been given up and the 1.514 WHIP was down-right horrible. That 1.514 WHIP was also up from 1.222 while he was with SD and the line against while with the Pads was only .240/.301/.427 ~ mainly because he had a .176/.235/.308 at Petco. You can see that he had a lower ERA despite his numbers, not because he pitched better…

BTW ~ His total 2007 against line in Petco vs everywhere else breaks down like this:
.292/.360/.483 Away from Petco
.176/.235/.308 at Petco
…Humm… When you look into it, Petco didn’t help him at all did it? What do you think a .292/.360/.483 line against should dictate in Chi? Well, the team as a whole only provided a .276/.338/.435 line against in putting up their 4.77ERA ~ so I guess he should fit right in with the rest of your bullpen :)

“3.71 ERA was his worst season ever, I will take that.”
~ and again, it’s heavily influenced by SD, luck and the competition faced. Its all been explained hours and hours ago, not to mention over and over again…

…But we’ve been over all of this before ~ you’re just running around in circles… You cant prove he is still any good, you cant show he should be expected to succeed from SD to Chi, you cant explain how he should be expected to succeed despite spiraling peripherals… Seriously, just go off and enjoy your new 4 year investment already…

Hence where the problem comes in…

What youre saying is “I’m not saying he is really good at all, but 4.75M over the next for years is a good signing because we had a bad pen in 2007”. See, your saying “we sucked, so signing a guy that isn’t good to a longer than it should be, higher than it should be contract is good” ~ where is the sense in that? Just because your pen sucked one year you get into bidding wars over players who are not good? Your best reliever ended up being Ehren Wassermann last year ~ showing that you can never predict who will succeed out of the pen. Bringing even the same exact group of ids back from last year could produce one of the best pens around ~ it happened with Cleveland from 04 to 05 before 06 saw a miserable pen again and 07 saw a wonderful turn around. Its just a craptshoot, and paying 19M over 4 years for a guy who has just a good of shoot as producing as anybody you call up from AAA is beyond foolish…

Yeah, the Indians signed that guy who I cant pronounce his name. Cleveland also hasn’t signed a single RP to more than a 2 year contract the last 5 or more years. Why? Because they know… Most of the guys that they have are either from their AAA or scrubs they pull off the leftover and injury lists. Yet, they have the ever cycling success track record…Shoot, even their closer is off the bottom of the barrel, and it worked out perfectly (although, they knew he couldn’t pitch in non-save situations and they know all about those types after years of Wickman but they still inflated his ERA and cost themselves a game or two because they tried it themselves ~ go figure…)

Paying a fortune for a pen is always a horrible, horrible idea. Signing any reliever to a 4 year contract is always a mistake. The one you just signed will be making a ton for 4 years despite horribly declining numbers. Even if you did “need” the arm, this makes as much sense as say Anaheims signing of Shea Hillenbrand last year to that 6M contract because they “needed a 3B with McPhearson hurt” ~ luckily it was only a 1 year deal though…

BTW, your bullpen did have that 5.5ish ERA, but only had a .281/.364/.425 line against. When you think about the fact that Linebrink was .292/.360/.483 in the weaker NL (when away from Petco) a very strong case can be made for him being worse than the average reliever you had. Think about that for a second ~ the guy you just brought in had a much worse Batting-Line-Against then the “crappy” pen you presented in 07. It just isn’t a good signing, he is a horrible fit for the club and the market dictating such an extreme contract makes it beyond logic.

I respect your opinions, but claiming I am practically saying "I’m not saying he is really good at all, but 4.75M over the next for years is a good signing because we had a bad pen in 2007" is far from the truth.

I think Linebrink is above average. I think he is probably the best FA setup man they could have signed. Do I think he is an all star - no. Do I think they should have given only 3years - yes. Do I think they overpaid - yes, but not by some huge margin. The White Sox are trying to win now, it sucks the RP FA market is garbage but it is and it happened to be a huge weak spot on the team. If they need to fill that void with a guy who wont be anything but league average so be it considering that 85% of their pen raised that average extremely.

cool deal, ya'll enjoy then...