Rosenthal's Latest: Boras, Murton, Marquis, Clark

Marquis has trade value? Dude, maybe Hendry does have something up his sleeve!

I always did think Hendry has something up his sleeve. Patience is a killer.

Murton and Marquis to Milwaukee for Hall and Villanueva. Solves the LF problem for the Crew, and gives them veteran depth in the rotation.

Dude, Braun is in left and Hall is at 3rd.

johansantana17,

Dude. I was joking.

I see the Greene deal happening and the Roberts deal happening.

Soriano
Roberts
Lee
Ramirez
Fukudome
Greene
Soto
Pie

Pie is NOT batting 2nd...trust me on this jr.

I would LOVE to see both happen, but I have a feeling its one or the other.

I think its either

1. Wuertz\Murton\Cedeno for Greene

or

2. Marshall\Murton\Cedeno for Greene

It just makes too much sense.

Its not completely just underestimating Marquis. Part of it is that he and Pinella didn't get along well and was pissed that he wasn't put on the playoff roster. So its just like the Rolen thing. We have to cut ties and he has to go for both parties sake.

I enjoy your posts Buddha, but I disagree on this one. I think Roberts is the bigger need. He's a true leadoff guy who will get on base and set the table for the big guys. He allows Soriano to move down into a power slot where his RBI total is sure to take a leap. The Cubs can live with Theriot at SS as long as he plays solid defense, steals some bases and brings his usual energy to the game. Don't forget he was a .280 hitter until September when he wore down. If he gets stronger, and the Cubs rest him more, he can put up those kind of numbers over a full year. Greene would bring some power (not a need), defense at SS (an upgrade but Theriot is a solid defender in his own right) and more strikeouts (definitely not a need for a team that plays Soriano, Lee and Pie on a regular basis), and more low OBP (again, something the Cubs are trying to avoid). I'd rather have Roberts... BUT only if the Cubs don't overpay.

Why would the Orioles want Dempster? Maybe put Marshall in for Dempster. Alsom jrfukudome how will the Cubs get both Byrd and Greene? It seems as Murton would be in a deal for one of them. And lets not even start talking about getting both Greene and Roberts.

Brian McCann's Contract looks like this:
1.117 Years of Service
SB - $1.0M
2007 - $500k
2008 - $800k
2009 - $3.5M
2010 - $5.5M
2011 - $6.5M
2012 - $7.0M - Club Option or $200k BU
2013 - $12.0M - Club Option or $500k BU

Total G'Tee - $18.0M
Max Contract (No Awards + Escalators Inc.)- $30.50M

The contract Tulo used as a example had to be Nomar's 1998 Contract with obvious inflation. When doing Pre-Arb deals, you must look at position when doing comps. He clearly beat Peralta and Betancourt..Its hards to use Jose Reyes because he was 2+ YOS and was going into arbitration year 1. One last point is that Tulo is a franchise type guy. Overall...wow what a deal..

tim, i don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but McCann's contract isn't guaranteed(in fact, only 5 years are). maybe that's why he isn't used as a comparison

Lofton for CF(backup and plays against right handed pitchers), Green for SS(for Wuertz\Murton\Cedeno), and see if you can get Blanton(Gallagher\Veal\Colvin?). Done deal, cubs win the division, mss pisses his pants some more, and we see what happens in the playoffs.

What happened to Pie, Dunc?

the lofton thing is supposed to say (backup and plays against LEFT handed pitchers) meaning Pie would get every start against a righty.

That's why I was confused. I meant what happened to him in your weird platoon scenario.

I can't imagine they could...but you never know I guess. I used to love the idea of Roberts, but I too have changed my mind on that. I'd rather get Greene and then look toward getting that rotation set.

Phil, can you belive the Cubs got a sandwich pick for Kendall? I'm still smiling about that...

Oh Lord, I would love it if the Cubs traded those guys for Roberts.

(Cards fan)

Byrd is a bad idea. Greene is tons better or if we really need a CF then get Loften. He is better and we only give up money for him. He could be the mentor. Byrd is a bad idea.

will the red sox get jose offerman back too?

Or trade Murton for Greene, but that's almost too good to be true!

Barroid,

Why would the Orioles want Dempster? Um. Filling needs. Um. Closer...

How about Marquis and Dempster for CJ Wilson???

Dude. I kinda get the Lofton thing, as everyone knows (Pie should be a "Loften-type player". But Lofton is not the solution against LHP. He's old, dude; he's on the wrong side of the platoon. So Loften will get Abs against RHP. This is your worst-case scenario; this is your disaster.

Pie will not be a Lofton type player. What an awful comp. Think Devon White or something.

don´t make me laugh cubs fans!!, khalil it´s not going anywhere, at least not for the next 1 1/2 years, he have Headley already being converted into a LFder,

Just say no to Blanton. He's not so hot outside of McAfee, check his H/R splits.

I'd rather have Marshall. Veal and Colvin included would be nuts, and I'm not even that high on either of those dudes.

I don't mean Devon White as a knock on him. He was a great ballplayer. Ran like the wind and played incredible defense, an average hitter with a light OBP and slugging heavy better offensive seasons.

If Pie puts up something similar to a .300/.370/.420 line for his career, I'll eat this laptop.

if you cite Hendry when you repeat something he said, it helps hedge against sounding like an idiot.

"Gallagher/Marshall/Cedeno/Colvin for Roberts

Marquis/Dempster for C.J. Wilson

Murton/Patterson for Greene"

Thats wayyy too much for Roberts. How could you honestly offer both Gallagher and Colvin for Roberts, as well as Marshall and Cedeno. Roberts is not a huge need for the Cubs, so why are Cubs fans so okay with selling the future for the present. Roberts is not worth anything more than the Gallagher, Marshall, Cedeno offer.

I don't understand why the Cubs would persue C.J. Wilson to the point of offering both Marquis and Dempster for him. We already have Marmol, Wood and Howry so what is the point of adding another back of the bullpen arm at the expense of two possibly decent starters. Unless the Cubs are trying to aggresively dump cash in this deal, there isn't much of a motivation to make it.

And Murton/Patterson for Greene doesn't really make much sense for San Diego. The Padres won't have any interest in Eric Patterson, they already have a young 2B in Matt Antonelli. If anything they would be interested in adding Murton, a replacement for Greene, and pitching. Which is how you end up back at the Murton, Cedeno, Marshall offer.

We need a lefty in the Bullpen...We have eyre and thats it.

You don't need another lefty. You need guys in the bullpen that can get outs. If they keep 12 pitchers, which Lou tends to do...you got Wood, Howry, the Marmot, Eyre, Hart, Wuertz, and Dempster (when he doesn't make the rotation). That's a very good pen, no need to sub any of those guys with an Ohman/Cotts/Pignatiello type who is just going to give up walks to lefties.

You also have Dempster who is going to be upset when he doesnt make the rotation. And has been working out as a starter and not as a closer. Marquis is already upset from last october.

What's with the CJ F Wilson fascination? Are we still at the point that people think reliever ERA is useful?

"You also have Dempster who is going to be upset when he doesnt make the rotation. And has been working out as a starter and not as a closer. Marquis is already upset from last october."

I'm sure Lou loses sleep over it. Who cares?

scribbletone, the pads would be interested in patterson because the cubs have switched him to the OF and the pads could use him in center.

murton/cedeno or murton/patterson for greene makes a lot of sense.

SS is a need for the club, but Roberts is the bigger need. Greene is a righty with an OBP last year of under .300 (something like .290 if I remember right). Honestly, that's terrible and while he has a lot of upside it does not help a rotation that suffered specifically of being right hand heavy and hard pressed for baserunners.

Roberts can bat lefty and is a legitimate leadoff batter. I have ordinarily maintained that Soriano needed to lead off, but with Roberts the team is better in a different setup. Still, its then impossible to avoid batting Lee ARam and Soriano in order (grouping the righties) without batting Lee second. What if Soriano batted second? Seems strange to me though.

uww1, If the Lou finds himself in a bind because he used Eyre early in a game to get a tough lefty bat out and doesn't have a lefty to turn to...he can simply look down in the bullpen and choose the following:

Wood: .220 Lefties BA
Marmol: .209 Lefties BA
Howry: .227 Lefties BA

I don't think lefties will be the issue.

Thats right on about Pie plh; however that's Devon White's career line. The line ZIPS projects is for a 23 year old Felix Pie playing in his first full major league season. Sure he has a high 'bustability' rate because of the K's and lack of patience, but for ZIPS to project Pie to have the ability to hit for that kind of power is a reason for excitement in the young guy. We all just hope he matures enough to get in at a decent hour. The guy, like Kyle Farnsworth, is way too big a fan of the nightlife in Chicago.

All I was saying is that another really good lefty in the pen isnt going to hurt.

That sounds about right plh, Extreme downside Patterson, Extreme upside Jones, Vernon Wells type.

He doesn't strike out quite as much as Cameron. At least not in the minors. 19% is where Pie and White are at, and Cameron is at 24%.

Camerson also has a .90 isolated walk rate. Much higher than Pie has shown.

..if not already over. Bedard will be the Opening Day starter and Roberts will start in 2B. Both would be auditioning for teams until July.

Bobby Crosby and cash for Murton?

Crunchy,

Thank you first. While I would love to have Roberts the one issue is that he wont lead off. I think that Sorian should move down in the order but for some reason the guy cannot hit out of the 1 spot. I dont understand it. But if they do get roberts he would bat 2 and that still would be pretty sweet.

I also agree that Theriot is an adaquate defender and could improve on offense. But Greene is a great defender. He would be able to cover a bit for DeRosa's defensive limitations. I also think that DeRosa is an adaquate defender but I think that defence up the middle wins championships. The key positions are SS, 2B, CF, and Catcher. I am willing to sacrafice a bit of offense in these positions for superior D. We know Pie is a monster. Soto is impressing me more. If we could some how manage Greene we would be in great position. He and DeRosa can work on the 6-4-3 DP. And we would be in great shape.

That is why I said what I did. Now Roberts add .OBP and a good glove as well plus top of the order speed. So.. I am torn. But I believe in my soul that D wins championships. Or at least gets you to the game. Just look at the Rockies.

Khalil Greene lifetime at Wrigley:

.200 BA
.250 OBP

He may be bad at PetCo, but he's worse at Wrigley. Someone explain to me why the Cubs would want this guy?

Baltimore gets really screwed in that deal above. They'd get more if they just accept the supposed offers they turned down from Seattle and Cubs. Cubbies fans need to stop trying to throw-in Murton to a deal with Baltimore.

I am in the very thin minority here. Even if the Cubs get Roberts, Soriano still is the leadoff hitter. I'm sure Lou would drop Soriano in the lineup. People keep thinking that by dropping Soriano means X more RBI. This is not true. Look at his stats in other batting spots. Granted, he has more ABs in leadoff, but he chases sliders away and does not really have good stats with men on base. That being said, I wish Soriano could hit lower. If we get Roberts (I like the Greene idea better), I'm sure we will see Roberts lead off and Soriano lower in the order.

"Like it or not, Cubs fans, Olson is about the same player/prospect that Gallagher is. That's not a dis against Gallahger. It's a compliment. Check out his stats at AAA. On top of that, the Orioles would not fill any of their needs from such a trade. Awful trade for the Orioles."

Actually, I'm an orioles fan. I can't see how the Orioles are getting screwed in that deal when they're getting excellent CF, 2b, 3b, and P prospects, a good and still fairly young LF in Murton, and Hill, a guy who might give them 80-90% of Bedard's production and will be cheap for several more years. (also Gallagher has more value than Olson because he's younger.)

Granted that I know how highly regarded Pie is but, I personally am not a believer in him. He's a phenomenally toolsy projectable player and "Meast" of an athlete but still needs to work on strikezone judgment. True elite star potential players generally have their strikezone issues resolved by the time they reach the majors, or, they never had issues to begin with.

Adun,
I consider you one of the more intelligent posters here, (among a quite a few). I think I agree with everything that you have said. Though I am personally not as thoroughly impressed with Pie yet. Maybe it's because I have been scarred by CPat. If CPat was a "Can't Miss" guy then what does that say about other prospects who don't project as well as he did? I don't know if you can get much better than CPat was when he was at the same point. I'm not suggesting that Pie WON'T make it. Though that extra little leap of faith I'm not so willing to make because he has some eerily similar tendencies as CPat did. Both guys were/are amazing athletes, 5-tools, strong defense, projectable power, and speed. The one blemish might be that both were arguably rushed in spite of strikezone judgment issues. He has a slightly power-happy stroke to me. In the minors (esp. at AAA) he connected a lot of times. In the majors I think that's what's holding him back. Some organizations keep players in the minors until strikezone judgment is absolutely addressed. It's treated as the #1 issue for hitters bar none. Other organizations are willing to overlook it, send him to the Show, and hope he fixes it eventually. The Cubs might be characterized like the latter. Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't. In the case of CPat, he fell into some fatally bad habits because of it and has never sniffed his potential. With Pie, it is a concern of mine. Personally I hope he figures it out cus I think he's a good kid with immense God-given talent and deserves to shine.

As far as the Votto comment. I like him personally. Though I accept your critique of him. Bailey vs. Hill? Right now I have to give it to you hands down. The Cubs have the best value today. Hill is by far the better pitcher right now. The only thing that works against Hill is his age. He had that amazing run in '06 where he was striking out everyone and hasn't really stopped since. Up until then the concern with him was that he was Barry Zito Lite. Great curve but fastball was a little straight. To me, he's just turned into a very smart pitcher and doesn't try to be another kind of pitcher anymore. He knows his game. I saw him in the minors before that '06 run and during it. Two completely different pitchers. That being said, Bailey has the superior cieling based on stuff and age. Now in the longrun, it's also very possible that Hill turns in a solid 10 yr career and Bailey never sniffs his potential and is out of baseball as soon as his clock/age/contract works against him.

Right now though I think the Orioles are in a position where they finally have some valuable parts other teams would actually want. Being a losing team over a long period of time is a slippery slope and many dimensions of acquiring players starts to work against you. The Os have basically backed into a chance to get the best young stud players they can get. Pie is a nice start. Hill is a great one too (but his age isn't ideal for the Os goals). Though the fact of the matter is that the rumored offers for Bedard alone is essentially teams offring 3 Pie's in the same deal. That's admittedly hard to beat. And, personally, I am surprised no one's pulled a trigger yet.