Angelos To Nix Roberts Trade?

god this is getting ridiculous

As I recall, Angelos killed a deal that would have sent Roberts to the Braves last season. Honestly, he is worse than ANY of the Steinbrenner's (wow I probably butchered that spelling) in terms of interfering. Both Ange-lose and Horrible Hank need to learn to let their GM's do their jobs.

Also everyone know Angelos is a moron. He wants more from a 30 year old 2B, but I understand becuz Roberts he a well established player. Also Angelos has to think tht he would be hurting his team he can get Ronny Cedeno who considered to be a all-star, Sean Gallagher- 22 year old who can he can do something probably a projected #2,3,4 starter. Also Murton can plantoon with Luke Scott as a dynamic duo in LF. He can also plantoon with Markakis in RF which would also be a good combo. The way I see it O's want to get younger, but Angelos with this trade for some reason he seems he doesn't know what he wants from it.
Let's just hope he doesn't kill it rumor for a 3rd time, but it would be for real. Also Hendry is be really good about this he has went through hell trying to get this guy and if I were him I would be like ''FORGET IT I'LL TALK TO YOU WHEN ANGELOS ISN'T AROUND.'' I think he is starting the trade off well with Gallagher, Murton and Cedeno.

Well?

You can't blame Angelos this time if the rumour is true. If that's the deal (Gallagher, Cedeno & Murton), then it's NOT enough for Roberts.

Gallagher is a pretty middling, unproven prospect, and Murton and Cedeno BOTH SUCK. If the Cubbies can get a legitimate player in Roberts for spare parts, two of whom they don't even want on the club, then Hendry is a genius.

"he can get Ronny Cedeno who considered to be a all-star, Sean Gallagher- 22 year old who can he can do something probably a projected #2,3,4 starter. Also Murton can plantoon with Luke Scott as a dynamic duo in LF. He can also plantoon with Markakis in RF which would also be a good combo."

Uhh Cedeno is considered an all star now? Uhh when the hell did that happen? He's definately a AAA all star though. And calling Gallagher a potential #2 is really generous. He's a pretty solid middle of the rotation prospect though. And Murton has ZERO chance of platooning with Markakis. I would argue quite confidently that he's their best player. He'd probably have a tough time in left field too considering that Luke Scott, Aubrey Huff, Jay Payton and Jay Gibbons are all already fighting for at bats there.

"Gallagher is a pretty middling, unproven prospect, and Murton and Cedeno BOTH SUCK. "

And this, this is just wrong. Gallagher is a very good prospect. He did post a 2.66 ERA in AAA last year as a 21 year old. He is pretty far from a middling, unproven prospect. And I don't really see how you can argue that Murton and Cedeno both suck. Cedeno hasn't produced in the majors yet, but then again he's only 24 and has straight up raked AAA the past two years. And I'm not really sure how a 25 year old with a career .820 OPS sucks. Thats pretty damn good. It's 60 points better than Roberts'. I know OPS isn't the only thing that matters, but it is a pretty solid way for me to argue that Murton definately does not suck. You might wanna STUDY UP before claiming that players SUCK.

I'm dumbfounded when prospect junkies get all lathered up over a guy like Tillman, who had a 5.76 ERA in A ball but has the potential to be a #3 starter, and at the same time be lukewarm over a guy like Gallagher who also has the potential of a #3 starter -- yet he's already much closer to that ceiling, he's already succeeded at AAA and the fall league. He's already made it to the majors. He just needs an opportunity to pitch that he won't get on a contending team.

Again, the point is that owners shouldn't be killing deals. They should leave the baseball decisions up to the baseball men -- regardless of their peculiar attachments to particular players.

I cannot see why anyone would attempt to deal with the O's any more. Angelos is a bigger pain to deal with than Boras. Please Pete, let the baseball decisions be made by baseball guys. That said, and without justifying Angelos' interference, Roberts should fetch more than Gallagher, Cedeno, and Murton.

Heyman is the same one who reported that Angelos nixed the Bedard trade. . . and looky looky, the trade happened.

IF Roberts is to be traded, the Orioles have plenty of time and would require a much much better bounty than Gallagher, Cedeno, and Murton.

I love how responsible some reporters are. It seems that Heyman has it out for Angelos more than reporting the truth. If it is the truth, let's find coroboration.

And where is Heyman with a mea culpa about Bedard??

Delaware bird, I hope you're right about Heyman. I'm OK with McPhail turning down a deal based on a disagreement in talent -- but I'm not OK with Angelos turning down a deal because of his affection for Roberts.

And Mattyc, if Angelos treats your baseball team like it's his toy, then you definitely need new ownership. If it were my team being treated that way, I'd be seriously worried about it's future.

I agree that DFA'ing Gibbons or Huff or Payton or Millar makes perfect sense. But that, I think, Angelos will have trouble with, money wise. Murton would fit well with Scott in a platoon. But I'd much rather get another decent prospect--maybe one of the Cubs' lower level pitchers, like Rhee or Hernandez, who wouldn't count against the 40-man this year. And for me, the minimum consideration is whether we're getting back something better than the two draft picks we'd get for Roberts. I don't think Gallagher, Murton, and Cedeno is better. Only Gallagher has high upside.

krol12, do you think you can get Young without giving up 3 or 4 TOP prospects or players? After trading Texeira, the Rangers have been touting Young big time as the face of the franchise.

Do the Cubs have anything to offer for Figgins that the Angels really want or need? The Angels NEED Figgins.

"Angelos should delegate that authority to people with expertise on the subject"...

"I'm dumbfounded when prospect junkies get all lathered up over a guy like Tillman, who had a 5.76 ERA in A ball but has the potential to be a #3 starter, and at the same time be lukewarm over a guy like Gallagher who also has the potential of a #3 starter..."

"I read a report today with McPhail saying he hasn't had a bit of trouble, and that he has told Angelos that he should let deals go through, and if he doesn't get enough back, he should bring in someone else to do the job."

I agree 100% with the above statements.

"IF Roberts is to be traded, the Orioles have plenty of time and would require a much much better bounty than Gallagher, Cedeno, and Murton."

Gallagher and Cedeno are good prospects. I do not see why Murton would be in the rumor. I agree it would have to be someone else. The O's do not need him. I am not so sure Angelos holds on to Roberts and see what is there around July. He needs to let his people he hires do their job, if that is the case.

"I love how responsible some reporters are. It seems that Heyman has it out for Angelos more than reporting the truth. If it is the truth, let's find coroboration."

I agree we need to see if this is all true before we bash Angelos. Again, if that is the case, then the Angelos would deserve it.

ok true u would need to give up some top prospects but Texas might be willing to go a little younger on there roster

ooops. I forgot about Weiters. Never mind about Castillo!

If this is true, Angelos sucks! It probably isn't though, because people said he killed the Bedard deal and that happened. If this did happen, the O's need a new president right now or they wont compete for a very long time.

to veto, or just say "no" to the deal and not sign off on it

Completely Off-Topic: The Mets signed Armas Jr to a Minor League Deal. I figured it was about as newsworthy as Trachsel/Mientkiewicz so I was posting it. Also coincides with the theory that the Mets aren't going to give a Major League Deal to either Livan or Lohse.

Sometimes you get the best results from the trades you were unable to make.

Angelos has allowed Tejada and Bedard to go this offseason.
I don't see where the Heyman vendetta is coming from. If the O's decide to hold onto one "marquee" player to keep as the face of the franchise, that is not necessarily to be criticised.
Plus, the trade as it stands is not one that really suits a rebuilding team. Gallagher is ready to go now, Murton and Cedeno look like bench players (on a contender).

If I were Brian, I would run if I saw Peter walking up to me in the locker room. No, not Family Guy. The Peter Angelos love fest for Brian Roberts.

Angelos has to eventually trade him to the Cubs or someone else. It is good business and in the best interest for The organization and for Roberts. No Oriole fan would disagree with that.

Let's say the Orioles do not like what the Cubs offer and officially pull in time. They have to trade him to someone eventually or be stuck with him as the franchise face. They would lose on getting players to rebuild and I'm sure Mr. Roberts would be miserable playing for a rebuilding team at his age.

The O's have a ton of first base options. Millar is the vet but Scott Moore, who could hit for a lot of power, will get a shot. They have a pretty good prospect in Brandon Snyder and Billy Rowell could go to first base too.

Can Angelos really say no to the trade if Roberts said he would waive his no trade clause and say he wants to come to Chicago?
Why would Angelos say no to this he would get young talent in return and they could develope into a Brian Roberts. Eric Patterson anyone?/ Ronny Cedeno?

Replace Murton with Colvin, and then you have something.

I don't usually use all caps but I feel this is important:

THERE IS LITERALLY NO NEWS IN THAT ARTICLE. IT IS PURE SPECULATION.

Let me give you some samples:

"There is now a feeling in Orioles land that Angelos may be balking..."

"There is also a sense that Angelos has an unreasonable attachment to Roberts..."

"Angelos has killed trades involving Roberts before. And apparently even Roberts' inclusion in the Mitchell Report and admission as a steroid user hasn't dulled Angelos' affection for him."

"He [Angelos] apparently read the fine print of some arcane baseball rule. But more than likely, he was afflicted with cold feet."

Those are the four most assertive statements in the article. "There is a feeling", "There is a sense", two "apparently"s and a "more than likely". I have no problems with opinion pieces, but this is one. Don't use it as evidence for random bashing.

Yes, I pretty much agree, gogopalehose. I think Alvarez and Matusz will go 1-2, in whichever order. So it'll probably be either Crowe or Beckham at 4.

Snyder's an interesting call at this point. I'd like to see his season. He's not a catcher, anymore, so that hurts his value. But he may be able to handle 3rd. He had a decent year last year, and a great fall league season. So, I don't think I'd trade him for Barfield. I guess a lot depends on how you evaluate Barfield, but I'm down on him. I think he's somewhere between season 1 and season 2 in actual value, which would be pretty mediocre, really.

Yeah, Snyder is projected as a 1B by most though, and he still has a long way to go. He's a young power prospect and those are hard to project.

Also, if the O's decided to add Smoak or Alvarez.... to Jones, Weiters, Markakis... whoo.

Yeah. I'd love to see Beckham. SS & 2nd are the biggest future question marks for the O's. There's some hope for a couple of prospects there--Henson, Adams, others--but there's no one with overwhelming upside or even with certainty to remain at SS.

That's true; Alvarez and Smoak are surer bets than Beckham. A tough call. I guess if I had all picks, I'd pick Alvarez. But I don't think he'll slide to #4. Of course, there's a very good chance that next year the O's will have the #1 pick overall.

This post is part of a trend I am not so much a fan of on this website. It is becoming a little to commonplace to link to speculation (often mainstream media) but the way the post is constructed suggests it is based on evidence that is more concrete. I love speculation as much as everyone who is a fan of the hot stove but I also hate when speculation is blurred into reality.

For the record, the Braves trade Angelos nixxed was Laroche AND Marcus Giles for Roberts and Hayden Penn. Given that the Braves didn't offer Giles a contract, one can't be that hard on Angelos for stepping in.

And walkoff, I agree. There should be a website that holds reporters accountable. Granted, some proposed deals fall through but when one reporter says the Dodgers aren't interested and another says they are, one is clearly wrong. If the reporters are just guys like us, thinking up deals that SHOULD make sense, they're not doing anyone any favors.

Cedeno would be your starting SS, so there is a lot of value there. The Cubs SHOULD be keeping him and giving him the shot at the job, but Lou loves him some Ryan Theriot...what can you do? His intangibles are great and all, but I just can't see how a guy that goes .266/.326 is going to get a guarenteed job on a contender.

Murton should be getting a chance on a young club, just like the O's acutally. He has a career line that is really good, something like .300\.360 with an OPS around .825 if memory serves correct. He is in his mid 20's. Problem is that the O's bad contract all seem to be gravitating toward LF, Murton's natural position. The Cubs have a guy named Soriano there, so you can see why they would shop him.

Gallagher has been killing the minors. He needs to get a shot in a rotation this year, he has earned it.

I think if you take Murton out and put in Marshall or a low level guy, you have a winner. I think the IDEAL trade for both teams would be

Gallagher\Marshall\Patterson

As a Cubs fan..I wince at giving up Gallagher, but realize that you have to give something up to get Roberts.

I would LOVE them taking Veal\Marshall\Patterson, that is a dream of mine...

This is a great thread tonight....I feel like I'm getting a PHD in baseball talk tonight!!!!

In our situation, I'd almost sooner give up Pie than Gallagher...

Who plays CF if you give up Pie? See if the BoSox will trade Crisp? Sign Loften as a stop gap? Just curious what you think would work.

I like Gallagher, too. I just think we can afford to give up him over Pie. We have no assurances with either, since they are unproven. Also, Gallagher might come in handy for the back end of our SP when you know who AND you know who start to struggle. Marshall being a lefty is tough. I think he improves with experience. He will never be great, but could be solid. He needs to have more endurance first and foremost. But because we have two other lefties as SP, he is expendable. I would see if he can be in the package.

IF we traded Pie, I would sign Lofton as a stopgap until Colvin was ready. He isn't the defensive STUD that Pie is, but he is rated the best athlete in our system. There is also an outside chance that Fuld might be productive, and he plays a great outfield. Like I said, thats an outside chance. Lets just hope he turned a corner.

Not to mention the points you made about baseball were just absurd. What an insane post. They should make you wear a helmet.

"and a middle infielder that could put up the same offensive numbers that Roberts did."

I'm talking about potential, probably not happening next year. By 2010 though, when they plan on this stuff paying off, it could be a reality.

OK, Angelos acts like a fan. Well, he paid for the team, and he is entitled to feel that way if he wants. I'm actually a little sympathetic to an owner who wants to make a player "the face of the franchise." Loyalty isn't all bad. If Angelos is blocking a trade which will be the difference between making the team competitive or not...than I can see the complaints. But, truthfully, Murton, Cedeno, and Gallagher aren't difference makers for the future of the Orioles' franchise. They may be nice placeholders for a couple of years, but not likely better than that. Now, if Hill is included in the trade, and Angelos blocks that trade too, then you can question whether he takes player loyalty too far.

Hill will not make it in that trade. I think you were just using Hill as a point to your statement. Ofcourse Angelos can keep Roberts as 'the face of the franchise'. Why? If Roberts has said he would be willing to waive his no trade clause to the Cubs, then that says the player would be willing to get out. Angelos may think he has to be wooed by some overpaying offer. Maybe the Cubs up the ante, maybe not. I bet Roberts will love being a 30 yr. old playing out a contract on a rebuilding team going no where now. When they can play for something, he will be past his prime and of no trade value and will have most likely signed on with another team somewhere else.

Angelos wants to have one player that will defiantly end up an All-Star for one that is now an All-Star the rest just has to fill holes and have some potential. This deal is not done and will not be done until one of the players mentioned..will, without a doubt, be an All-Star (Adam Jones). Therefore, Pie and whoever, the deal now is fine but someone must be replaced with a defiant to be All-Star prospect. As an O's fan I agree with this phiolsophy, if all else fails you trade him in July and get a comprable package.

That's a bad deal for the Os anyways. Just for the record, the deals that Angelos have nixed of late are the:

Prior-Hill-CPat-prospect
FOR
Tejada-Bedard

And:

Giles-LaRoche
FOR
Roberts-Penn

AND:

Oswalt-Ensberg-Everett/Lidge/prospect

The first 2 would have been bad trades for the Orioles. The last one would have been a good one. I'm not defending Angelos but the Angelos bashers likes to bash for the sake of bashing without looking at the actual facts. For whatever it's worth Os fans should be glad to see Angelos step in when he did in some of these trades. and, for whatever it's worth, this is a Chicago publication and there has been no word whatsoever in Baltimore that any Roberts trade has gotten close enough to nix anyways.

I hate the cubs but angelos is a dumbfu*k if he doesnt do this trade.. also im not sure why the cubs think they need roberts.. derosa put up the same numbers if not better numbers than roberts would..

Well the Cubs are trying to get better at the lead-off spot. They were 8th in the NL last year in runs, which shows how the pitching carried them. Roberts would give them a guy who can get on base, steal, and score runs. The Cubs need a legitimate lead-off guy like him to take the next step.

Anyone saying Cedeno sucks doesn't know what they're taling about. The guy hasn't had much time at the major league level to develop yet. He'd be perfect for the O's, since they have plenty of time to give him. Roberts is not a pitcher and should not yield a return like one. Get real people!!!

Angelos should have NO involvement in trade talks. That said, I think McPhail is smart enough to decline this offer. Pie or Colvin need to be included w/ Gallagher & Cedeno. Gallagher is a nice prospect. Cedeno has been a bust thus far & has little value. Colvin or Pie are good enough prospects to move the O's to give up their two time All star. The Cubbies & their sad fans need to wake up if they think McPhail would pull the trigger on the current offer.

"....he can get Ronny Cedeno who considered to be a all-star, Sean Gallagher- 22 year old who can he can do something probably a projected #2,3,4 starter. "
Can someone please get this guy off the blue koolaid already. Cedeno is anything but an all star. Hes your protypical AAAA player. He has had 2, again 2 years to take over the SS position and has been passed over by Theriot, who although solid, was just a year ago a 27 year old minor league after thought. As far as Gallagher, he has never been considered more than a #4, at best a #3, show me where he has been projected to be more than that?

"Can Angelos really say no to the trade if Roberts said he would waive his no trade clause and say he wants to come to Chicago?
Why would Angelos say no to this he would get young talent in return and they could develope into a Brian Roberts. Eric Patterson anyone?/ Ronny Cedeno?"
Uh just in case you forgot he's the owner. He can nix, veto any trade he wants.
"I'm dumbfounded when prospect junkies get all lathered up over a guy like Tillman, who had a 5.76 ERA in A ball but has the potential to be a #3 starter, and at the same time be lukewarm over a guy like Gallagher who also has the potential of a #3 starter "

Because its about the stuff thats why. The baseball graveyard is littered with pitchers who raked in the minor leagues and did nothing once they got to the show. GM, scouts are looking more for the "stuff" because the numbers can be deceiving. Stating the obvious, but the minor leagues aint the show. Today there are many websites ( Baseball America, Baseball prospectus, etc,) that go into this in great detail. As far as Gallagher, everything Ive read suggests he has decent-good stuff....not great stuff and again projects as a solid #4, maybe even a good #3.

If Tillman and Gallagher are both #3 starter types - does it matter what kind of stuff they have? Starters like Maddux and Glavine were #1 and #2 starters throughout their careers. Does Maddux in his prime having less stuff make him less an ace then say, Josh Beckett? It's not about stuff that you're talking about, it's about projection. Big difference. Tillman's stuff couldn't survive the major leagues right now. He throws 91-95, Gallagher 90-93...not a huge difference but Gallagher has much better secondary pitches and much better command of all his pitches. I'd say Gallagher has better stuff right now. What you're talking about is projection. Tillman is tall and lean and could fill out and throw harder. Could. He could one day refine his slider. Could. He could one day get a third pitch. Could. He could one day have better command. Again, could. Prospect junkies always get more excited about the "coulds" than what people already are. I hope the Cubs sub some of their higher ceiling guys like Veal, Smardzija and Huseby instead of Gallagher. Nothing would make me happier.