White Sox Not Happy With Crede Offers

At this point I'd probably trade him for some catching gear & a couple boxes of balls.

The LA Times mentioned that the Dodgers are no longer pursuing Inge or Crede.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodrep14mar14,1,7553874.story

Sabean is finally realizing NO moves is better than DUMB moves.

Messenger/Roberts and I'll throw in Aurilia/Kline/Winn/Durham should be what we offer. Take it or leave it!

Good for Sabean sticking to his guns on this one. One of the Giants top prospects for Crede? Williams must be smoking the wacky tobaccy.

I would do Crede for Winn if the Giants throw in cash. Winn would be better than Owens in CF.

Williamson, Messenger, or Roberts? Maybe Sabean's not as big an idiot as I assumed. Those are all fair offers. Crede's an injury risk, a below-average hitter, is priced above market, and is repped by Boras. Only an idiot would offer more than a similarly flawed player/contract.

Winn's a pipe dream. He's a local kid with a no-trade clause. He isn't going anywhere.

Winn actually has a partial no-trade clause. There are 10 teams he can be traded to. I don't know which...

Tim, do you know?

I'm a fan of KW but he is an idiot if he doesn't dump Crede now.

He isn't going to get more for him in the future and this whole deal could really mess up Josh Fields and the Sox season.

Crede sucks right now and he should not be on the Sox roster even if they don't trade him. He belongs in the minors.

KW should stop being stubborn and dump him now and move on. It's not worth it. There is no scenario where Crede will bring a big return anymore.

"Winn's a pipe dream. He's a local kid with a no-trade clause. He isn't going anywhere."

He's a center fielder without a job. I'm assuming that he wants to get another contract after this one, and sitting on the bench behind Rowand isn't the way to maximize that contract.

What is kw smoking. What a waste if fields doesn't play this year. I'd take williamson and messenger. That sounds fair at this point.

Yes, he's a CF on a team sporting a better CF in Rowand, a backup CF in Roberts, another backup CF in Lewis, and yet another backup CF in Davis. If it wasn't clear from my post above, Brian Sabean is a @#$%! idiot.

When it comes to Winn, Sabean's addlepated idea is that Winn holds down RF, since Mays Field is so expansive to right-center. Sure, Winn's baseball value as an average bat that can handle center immediately plummets in a corner, but this is a GM who plans to play Dave Roberts, he of the career 90 OPS+, in LF.

Winn's signed through 2009 for his hometown team. If he's headed to the GM's office to demand a trade to a team that will start him in CF, it'll be offseason next year or the trading deadline in 2009, not now.

But hey, keep dreaming. Maybe you can swap Crede for Cain. Maybe the Giants throw in some low-level prospect who'll never amount to anything, like Villalona.

Fanboys need dreams, too. Enjoy yours.

Good job KW by not accepting that crap offer. Williamson? Messenger? Roberts? NO THANK YOU. Crede is worth a lot more playing for us than those players would be. Yes we need to move him, but not for those pieces.

JoeCool..

If this trade happens, its a garbage for garbage trade.

Crede is garbage...What the Giants are offering is garbage.

It amazes me how White Sox fans (including those in the Chicago media) have so grossly overvalued Crede. I swear before holy God that one of the Sox-partial radio hosts said that he wanted Lincecum for Crede, and I'm almost positive he was serious.

Look ... Crede, when healthy, is the white Pedro Feliz -- a slick-fielding out-making machine who'll pop a few home runs for you. Nothing more. The Giants passed on Feliz already this off-season, so why on Earth would they trade a useful player just to get his doppelganger?

I just don't see why KW and Sox fans are so adamant that they deserve something for Crede. Do you honestly think that if the Phillies approached the Giants and said "Feliz for Sanchez," they wouldn't get hung up on immediately? So why are the Sox entitled to such a player when they're offering exactly the same thing?

It blows my mind that Cubs fans are considered the stupid ones in this city.

Where's the guy who said there would be plenty of good offers for Crede and called me out when I said he isn't worth much?

Time to face facts, Crede is garbage.

Crede had a 4.2 WARP1 in 2005 and 6.2 in 2006. Feliz has never been better than 3.3.

I guess being older does add value for the Giants, though.

I'll admit that I'm ignorant about most PECOTA stats, but could either of those stats be influenced by the fact that the Giants have stunk since Feliz started playing regularly and the White Sox were very good each of those two years?

Crede's upside is way higher than Feliz's ever was. Plus he's a better defender. I still don't get this comparison, other than the fact that they've had one or two similar yet not identical seasons years back.

zito4cyyoung: You're a borderline troll right about now, same with "wcw" so your opinion is pretty much worthless to me. No offense.

Kudos to KW for sticking to his guns on this one. We don't need your garbage San Fran, we have enough of our own. Uribe.

Does anybody here actually sit and think before they post? Calling a swap of a journeyman relief pitcher(Williamson) for a gold glove caliber third basemen with 30/100 potential a FAIR TRADE??? Are you effing kidding me? Do you people read this garbage back after you type it? Ridiculous.

The Giants are a weak team with a massive need for stability in the infield. Crede thus far has shown that he's healthy, the power and the glove will come back as he shakes off the rust.

No, sabremetric stats are not influenced by how good a team is. They also adjust for league, park, and quality of opponents faced.

Crede was just that much better than Feliz, before his injury anyway.

panda, the big problem is that Crede actually provides zero stability because he's only signed through this year can't stay off the DL. If the Giants were a team that had aspirations of competing this year, then they'd think a lot harder about a deal like this. As it is, there is no bigger lock in baseball than the fact that the Giants are going to finish last in that division, so why would they sacrifice a good prospect for a an injury-prone third baseman who, realistically, is no better than league-average and isn't going to help his team any more than Aurilia? If Sabean trades anything of value for Crede, he should be fired on the spot.

I should say PROBABLY won't help his team more than Aurilia would. My bad.

Seriously, what did KW expect? Did he really think someone would give him a top-prospect & a reliever? I mean, the Giants could have gotten a Crede-like guy without the questionable health (in the Feliz form) without giving up anything but an extra year’s commitment had they pushed harder to keep Feliz ~ but they didn’t want him… Doesn’t that right there tell KW what his return will probably be?

Yeah Kenny ~ just like you wanted Top Prospects for Dye & Garland & Contreras at the break last year… Just keep holding all your pieces man… (or trading them for other tradable assets in the case of Garland) Just keep expecting the moon, despite the fact that you seem to be the only one really willing to ever pay it (see the Swisher deal)

astralpanda, ad hominems aside, since when does a 30-year-old with a bad back have 'upside'?

As for WARP, those are solely due to BP's middlin' ability to account for defense. We know Crede's bat is somewhat less putrid than Feliz's. Feliz's hitting is so bad that any mere below-average bat bests it. However, we also know that the best defensive metrics around (UZR, say) have Feliz as the best 3B in tha majors the last three years, where Crede at his healthiest has been above-average, but not stellar.

Net-net, Crede is Feliz, a few years younger, with a bad back, and repped by Boras. How stating facts here is 'trolling' eludes me. I am as coldly analytical about my team's terrible players (Lowry, his injuries and stinky peripherals? The entire system's excuse for hitting prospects? Take them -- please). Try objectivity some time. It helps inure you to future disappointment.

astralpanda, you shouldn't call other peoples opinions worthless when you make statements and then run and hide when people call you on them.

Let me remind you. You said you would bet anyone $100 that the White Sox would be at least 10 games over .500 this year. And when guys started asking for some of that action you disppeared for a month.

So your credibility is in question.

Astral,
I won't get into name calling...

The other responses to you are enough...

This is stupid. Chicago is dealing from a point of weakness. It's obvious that the White Sox would prefer to use Fields instead of Crede. And the White Sox are the ones that are trying to force this deal. Brian Sabean knows that his team is not good. Adding a high risk high reward guy for one season won't do him any good. Why would the Giants pick up this salary to continue to hold last place?