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White Sox Not Happy With Crede Offers
We knew that Joe Crede's name would be an oft-mentioned this spring. Further, we knew that he'd be connected with the Giants, who have infield needs. It appears the two teams have been discussing possible swaps, but the Sox are less than impressed with what's been offered thus far.
According to Mark Gonzalez of the Chicago Tribune, the Giants have been offering up the likes of recently-cut Scott Williamson, recently-optioned Randy Messenger, and outfielder Dave Roberts, though not all in the same package. On the other end, GM Ken Williams is looking for "one of the Giants' top prospects and a serviceable young reliever."
The Sox don't have to trade Crede, since Josh Fields still has options. However, Crede hasn't looked so hot this spring -- or at least that's the story his batting average tells, as he's hitting .081. Of course, numbers mean little at this time of year. The White Sox asked about left-hander Jonathan Sanchez, but given the injury to Noah Lowry, that appears less than likely.
The Dodgers are another team mentioned in connection with Crede, as they sent a scout to watch him earlier this week. However, they do have Nomar Garciaparra at the hot corner, with recently-injured Andy LaRoche scheduled to return sometime in May or June.
Posted by Joe, who you can email here, or visit his Yanks blog
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At this point I'd probably trade him for some catching gear & a couple boxes of balls.
Posted by: ksesxe | March 14, 2008 at 09:09 AM
The LA Times mentioned that the Dodgers are no longer pursuing Inge or Crede.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodrep14mar14,1,7553874.story
Posted by: curgle | March 14, 2008 at 09:24 AM
Sabean is finally realizing NO moves is better than DUMB moves.
Messenger/Roberts and I'll throw in Aurilia/Kline/Winn/Durham should be what we offer. Take it or leave it!
Posted by: zito4cyyoung | March 14, 2008 at 10:03 AM
Good for Sabean sticking to his guns on this one. One of the Giants top prospects for Crede? Williams must be smoking the wacky tobaccy.
Posted by: Andy Braves Fan | March 14, 2008 at 10:23 AM
I would do Crede for Winn if the Giants throw in cash. Winn would be better than Owens in CF.
Posted by: cabiness42 | March 14, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Williamson, Messenger, or Roberts? Maybe Sabean's not as big an idiot as I assumed. Those are all fair offers. Crede's an injury risk, a below-average hitter, is priced above market, and is repped by Boras. Only an idiot would offer more than a similarly flawed player/contract.
Winn's a pipe dream. He's a local kid with a no-trade clause. He isn't going anywhere.
Posted by: wcw | March 14, 2008 at 11:08 AM
Winn actually has a partial no-trade clause. There are 10 teams he can be traded to. I don't know which...
Tim, do you know?
Posted by: zito4cyyoung | March 14, 2008 at 11:23 AM
"Winn's a pipe dream. He's a local kid with a no-trade clause. He isn't going anywhere."
He's a center fielder without a job. I'm assuming that he wants to get another contract after this one, and sitting on the bench behind Rowand isn't the way to maximize that contract.
Posted by: cabiness42 | March 14, 2008 at 11:53 AM
What is kw smoking. What a waste if fields doesn't play this year. I'd take williamson and messenger. That sounds fair at this point.
Posted by: joemorgan=#1 | March 14, 2008 at 12:10 PM
Yes, he's a CF on a team sporting a better CF in Rowand, a backup CF in Roberts, another backup CF in Lewis, and yet another backup CF in Davis. If it wasn't clear from my post above, Brian Sabean is a @#$%! idiot.
When it comes to Winn, Sabean's addlepated idea is that Winn holds down RF, since Mays Field is so expansive to right-center. Sure, Winn's baseball value as an average bat that can handle center immediately plummets in a corner, but this is a GM who plans to play Dave Roberts, he of the career 90 OPS+, in LF.
Winn's signed through 2009 for his hometown team. If he's headed to the GM's office to demand a trade to a team that will start him in CF, it'll be offseason next year or the trading deadline in 2009, not now.
But hey, keep dreaming. Maybe you can swap Crede for Cain. Maybe the Giants throw in some low-level prospect who'll never amount to anything, like Villalona.
Fanboys need dreams, too. Enjoy yours.
Posted by: wcw | March 14, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Good job KW by not accepting that crap offer. Williamson? Messenger? Roberts? NO THANK YOU. Crede is worth a lot more playing for us than those players would be. Yes we need to move him, but not for those pieces.
Posted by: JoeCoolMan24 | March 14, 2008 at 12:56 PM
JoeCool..
If this trade happens, its a garbage for garbage trade.
Crede is garbage...What the Giants are offering is garbage.
Posted by: zito4cyyoung | March 14, 2008 at 01:02 PM
It amazes me how White Sox fans (including those in the Chicago media) have so grossly overvalued Crede. I swear before holy God that one of the Sox-partial radio hosts said that he wanted Lincecum for Crede, and I'm almost positive he was serious.
Look ... Crede, when healthy, is the white Pedro Feliz -- a slick-fielding out-making machine who'll pop a few home runs for you. Nothing more. The Giants passed on Feliz already this off-season, so why on Earth would they trade a useful player just to get his doppelganger?
I just don't see why KW and Sox fans are so adamant that they deserve something for Crede. Do you honestly think that if the Phillies approached the Giants and said "Feliz for Sanchez," they wouldn't get hung up on immediately? So why are the Sox entitled to such a player when they're offering exactly the same thing?
It blows my mind that Cubs fans are considered the stupid ones in this city.
Posted by: MikeMeyer | March 14, 2008 at 01:23 PM
Where's the guy who said there would be plenty of good offers for Crede and called me out when I said he isn't worth much?
Time to face facts, Crede is garbage.
Posted by: brewersfan729 | March 14, 2008 at 01:25 PM
Crede had a 4.2 WARP1 in 2005 and 6.2 in 2006. Feliz has never been better than 3.3.
I guess being older does add value for the Giants, though.
Posted by: cabiness42 | March 14, 2008 at 01:28 PM
I'll admit that I'm ignorant about most PECOTA stats, but could either of those stats be influenced by the fact that the Giants have stunk since Feliz started playing regularly and the White Sox were very good each of those two years?
Posted by: MikeMeyer | March 14, 2008 at 01:41 PM
Crede's upside is way higher than Feliz's ever was. Plus he's a better defender. I still don't get this comparison, other than the fact that they've had one or two similar yet not identical seasons years back.
zito4cyyoung: You're a borderline troll right about now, same with "wcw" so your opinion is pretty much worthless to me. No offense.
Kudos to KW for sticking to his guns on this one. We don't need your garbage San Fran, we have enough of our own. Uribe.
Does anybody here actually sit and think before they post? Calling a swap of a journeyman relief pitcher(Williamson) for a gold glove caliber third basemen with 30/100 potential a FAIR TRADE??? Are you effing kidding me? Do you people read this garbage back after you type it? Ridiculous.
The Giants are a weak team with a massive need for stability in the infield. Crede thus far has shown that he's healthy, the power and the glove will come back as he shakes off the rust.
Posted by: astralpanda | March 14, 2008 at 01:43 PM
No, sabremetric stats are not influenced by how good a team is. They also adjust for league, park, and quality of opponents faced.
Crede was just that much better than Feliz, before his injury anyway.
Posted by: cabiness42 | March 14, 2008 at 01:48 PM
panda, the big problem is that Crede actually provides zero stability because he's only signed through this year can't stay off the DL. If the Giants were a team that had aspirations of competing this year, then they'd think a lot harder about a deal like this. As it is, there is no bigger lock in baseball than the fact that the Giants are going to finish last in that division, so why would they sacrifice a good prospect for a an injury-prone third baseman who, realistically, is no better than league-average and isn't going to help his team any more than Aurilia? If Sabean trades anything of value for Crede, he should be fired on the spot.
Posted by: MikeMeyer | March 14, 2008 at 01:56 PM
I should say PROBABLY won't help his team more than Aurilia would. My bad.
Posted by: MikeMeyer | March 14, 2008 at 01:59 PM
Seriously, what did KW expect? Did he really think someone would give him a top-prospect & a reliever? I mean, the Giants could have gotten a Crede-like guy without the questionable health (in the Feliz form) without giving up anything but an extra year’s commitment had they pushed harder to keep Feliz ~ but they didn’t want him… Doesn’t that right there tell KW what his return will probably be?
Yeah Kenny ~ just like you wanted Top Prospects for Dye & Garland & Contreras at the break last year… Just keep holding all your pieces man… (or trading them for other tradable assets in the case of Garland) Just keep expecting the moon, despite the fact that you seem to be the only one really willing to ever pay it (see the Swisher deal)
Posted by: darkstar1661 | March 14, 2008 at 02:05 PM
astralpanda, ad hominems aside, since when does a 30-year-old with a bad back have 'upside'?
As for WARP, those are solely due to BP's middlin' ability to account for defense. We know Crede's bat is somewhat less putrid than Feliz's. Feliz's hitting is so bad that any mere below-average bat bests it. However, we also know that the best defensive metrics around (UZR, say) have Feliz as the best 3B in tha majors the last three years, where Crede at his healthiest has been above-average, but not stellar.
Net-net, Crede is Feliz, a few years younger, with a bad back, and repped by Boras. How stating facts here is 'trolling' eludes me. I am as coldly analytical about my team's terrible players (Lowry, his injuries and stinky peripherals? The entire system's excuse for hitting prospects? Take them -- please). Try objectivity some time. It helps inure you to future disappointment.
Posted by: wcw | March 14, 2008 at 02:10 PM
astralpanda, you shouldn't call other peoples opinions worthless when you make statements and then run and hide when people call you on them.
Let me remind you. You said you would bet anyone $100 that the White Sox would be at least 10 games over .500 this year. And when guys started asking for some of that action you disppeared for a month.
So your credibility is in question.
Posted by: sweetswingingbw | March 14, 2008 at 02:23 PM
Astral,
I won't get into name calling...
The other responses to you are enough...
Posted by: zito4cyyoung | March 14, 2008 at 02:29 PM
This is stupid. Chicago is dealing from a point of weakness. It's obvious that the White Sox would prefer to use Fields instead of Crede. And the White Sox are the ones that are trying to force this deal. Brian Sabean knows that his team is not good. Adding a high risk high reward guy for one season won't do him any good. Why would the Giants pick up this salary to continue to hold last place?
Posted by: oxfrat1665 | March 14, 2008 at 02:51 PM