Yankees-Pirates Deal Reconfigured

Better trade for the Pirates. McCutchen has the potential to help out their rotation immediately and be an effective #4 starter over his career. Karstens has also been pitching well lately and be a decent 5th starter if they're lucky.

This makes much more sense for the Pirates.

Yeah I still don't quite get how this all works out for Pittsburgh.

They were asking for two top prospects for Nady, and the equivalent of slightly more than two top draft picks for Marte. The way I see it they landed one top prospect (Tabata), one MLB-ready pitching prospect that's likely to become a quality reliever but nothing more (Ohlendorf), and then a couple of low risk/low upside near-MLB ready arms (Karstens, McCutchen).

Now I think that this is better than what they had previously gotten with Coke and Kontos, but they clearly were negotiated down from their initial asking price.

I would've thought they could get a better centerpiece than Tabata for those two though. In my opinion that should be pretty disappointing to Pittsburgh fans. I mean he's got mad potential, but there just seem to be a lot of obstacles for him to hurdle before he can reach it.

Two items I haven't seen discussed:
1. Who is losing their place on the Yankee Roster? Justin Christian or Brent Gardner? (I think Christian) and Dan Giese or LaTroy Hawkins?
2. Does anyone else think that the Yankee spin machine did an excellent job making McCutcheon into a viable prospect? He was nothing a year ago and, this year, many started talking about him with great fervor.

Please explain what will make McCutchen a "beast".

"The reality is that all 3 of these pitchers will be competing for MLB roster spots next year."

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to see all three of those guys this year. The Pirates suck, remember.

"Yeah I still don't quite get how this all works out for Pittsburgh."

I've been trying to figure it myself and here's what I come up with. The Pirates wanted:

One top flight prospect + one lesser prospect = Nady.

Two prospects equivalant to the two sandwich picks they'd get as FA compensation = Marte.

Well, Tabata is arguably a top flight pick. So Tabata + Karstens = Nady.

McCutcheon and Ohlendorf are about what you can hope for out of sandwich picks so that's decent compensation for Marte.

I do feel much better with Karsens and McCutcheon in the deal. To me, Kostos and McCutch are a wash as far as potential back-end starters.

Coke was probably never going to make to the majors (26 in AA? Yeah, he's a Crash Davis). Karstens at least has ML ability, albeit he's probably a reliever.

So at least we got three major league pitchers and a possible top flight OFer out of the deal.

I will wager any amount Huntington and Coonelly took a look at the reactions this stupid trade was getting around the league and realized they goofed. The Yankees evidently felt guilty about stealing and decided to give us a mulligan. Who says NYers don't have a heart?

I don't know how this is a better deal for the Bucs. Karstens is not a good pitcher and is injury prone. Mckutchen is good but i'd rather have George whose two years younger. I think this is better for the Yankees. Don't know why everybody thinks this is a better trade. The Yanks were never goin to use Karstens anyway.

"One top flight prospect + one lesser prospect = Nady.

Two prospects equivalant to the two sandwich picks they'd get as FA compensation = Marte.

Well, Tabata is arguably a top flight pick. So Tabata + Karstens = Nady.

McCutcheon and Ohlendorf are about what you can hope for out of sandwich picks so that's decent compensation for Marte."

See but the thing is that it is arguable that Jose Tabata is still really a top flight prospect. And when you consider that the Pirates dealt Nady AND Marte together, one would think that they could've landed a better centerpiece prospect than Tabata. His stock has been falling as a prospect, and I know he's 19 and AA but still. I would've expected them to land a guy with less questions to Tabata, that's all.

"I would've expected them to land a guess with less questions *THAN* Tabata."

Third time's a charm.

I would've expected them to land a guy with less questions than Tabata.

The end.

McCutcheon and Ohlendorf are about what you can hope for out of sandwich picks so that's decent compensation for Marte."

ill give you Ohlendorf if he can develop into a good setup man but id expect way more out of a supp. pick the Mccutchen.

I would be shocked if another team besides the Yankees would have given up 3 near ready major league starters.

Plus keep in mind, had we been talking about this trade before this season, the Yanks would have laughed in our faces.

Tabata was a SUPERSTAR prospect before this seasons multi front issues. Remember 19 Yrs old in AA ball...that says something all in its self.

This is a very good trade. We addressed our largest need and wisely bought low on a superstar prospect that every team coveted less than 8 months ago.

We should all be very pleased.

Its not what you want to trade for, it whats you can get for your players.

Various reports had teams moaning about the ridiculously high demands of Pittsburgh for their players.
They may have lowered the field of competition for those two and had to take the best offer still out there.

And keep in mind, sometimes it might be good to take a step back and say - it's Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte.

Its not like they are indebted to either guy as a cornerstone of their organization. I think they got a pretty good haul all things considered.

Xavier Nady, a 29-year old oft-injured league average 3rd/4th OFer who is having a career year. Now maybe he's finally locked it in and will continue to succeed or more likely he'll go back to being league average. I think the main reason the Yanks pulled the deal is because Nady hits .320 against LHP and they've struggled horribly versus lefties this year.

Marte I like a lot more. I think he's definitely worth Tabata and co. Marte has been on the Yankees radar for years and they finally get a dominant lefty to bring in to face Ortiz.

I think overall both sides did pretty well. I think Ohlendorf is being undersold here - he has got great stuff just hasn't been able to put his head together yet. A smaller market with less pressure could turn him into a star. Karstens isn't anything special but McClutchen is definitely an upgrade over the rumored Kontos/Coke deal.

I keep coming back to the fact that Tabata was the centerpiece of this deal for the Pirates. An outfielder. Yeah, because the Pirates need one of those...

Jason Bay, Nate McLouth, Steve Pearce, Andrew McCutchen, Neil Walker (gonna have to move somewhere if/when Pedro Alvarez signs). And now Tabata.

As for pitching depth, this season the Pirates have been treated to the horror show of revolving nobodies: Phil Dumatrait, John Van Benschoten, Yoslan Herrera, Ty Taubenheim, Jimmy Barthmaier, and so on. There is absolutely nobody in the minors right now who can come up and be a good MLB pitcher.

So what do they get? Karstens, who can't stay healthy and on a big league roster. McCutchen, who admittedly is better than Kontos or Coke, but was never considered by the Yanks for a rotation spot (if you're passed over in favor of Darrell Rasner or Sidney Ponson, that's not a good sign). And Ohlendorf, a pitcher people calling a starter when every scouting report I've ever read says the same thing: HE'S A RELIEVER.

Great, so a decent RHP, a non-prospect RHP, a RH reliever, and an OF with all kinds of on and off-the-field problems in exchange for Nady and Marte.

I realize the Buccos were never gonna win with those two, but when you're selling high on guys (Nady in particular), I'd at least like to get one viable big-league starter back. Instead it's 3 fringe guys and an OF they didn't need.

Good job, Huntington. Looks like you're going to continue the Pirate tradition of having the worst GM in baseball...

Maybe now some of the flippin know-it-alls on this board may FINALLY get it. You don't HAVE to include a Hughes or a Kennedy in every deal or it's "garbage" or "biased to Yankees fans". You offer it up and you never know. This is a point I was trying to hammer home earlier in the week to two separate m0r0ns.

That all being said, I think this is a good trade for both teams. The Bucs got three guys to compete for the starting rotation and a possible future star in Tabata. The Yanks got the lefty RP they've needed badly and a solid right handed bat with good D. Time will tell!

GO YANKEES!