Marlins, Red Sox, Pirates Talking Manny Trade

Dont yall need a SS more than another outfielder? I mean I thought the potential Lillibridge, Brandon Jones, Roughbough or Locke and marginal prospect for JUST Bay was good for both teams. I mean the Pirates get there SS, LF in Brandon Jones. Its not like Hermida is a GREAT outfielder he is better than Jones but not alot better. Tucker is good but so is Locke and Rouhbough. Both pitchers are potential number 3 and possibly number 2 if everything works out right. No way is the Red Sox and Marlins deal enough for Bay and Grabow. They dont take the Braves deal but take this? ok whatever.

We don't know what the Braves offered us. That's your guess. I heard Jones and Lillibridge's names the other day but that's it. If those were the two "big pieces" ATL was giving up, no wonder we passed on the deal.

Same with Tampa. They don't seem willing to include Price, Davis OR Hellickson. How many arms do they intend to stockpile? Do they think they can win every year for the next 6 years?

I don't get their thinking at all. All the Pirates would want is ONE of those three plus Brignac a couple spare parts. And TB would then have the best team in the AL East. Don't get it at all.

But PASS ON THIS THREE WAY NEAL!!! It stinks!

Sorry Pittsburgh fans, but you guys are getting a little crazy here. You guys do remember that Hermida was everyones pick for ROY a few years ago and that he posted a line of .296/.369/.501 at the age of 23 last season. Compare that to Bay at .282/.376/.516 for his career amd .282/.375/.519 this season. Considering that Hermida is 4 years younger and controlled 2 years longer. On top of that you guys would be getting the Marlins top pitching prospect and another prospect from the Sox. I feel like you guys are getting an amazing deal here, almost solely because the Red Sox have to trade Manny while finding a replacement and Bay is the only guy that fits the bill.

And braves#1, I'm a Braves fan and I've argued for that deal, but this one is definitely better. Hermida is definitely better than Jones, Tucker is definitely a step up from either of our two guys, and the other prospect or two the Pirates would get could pretty much cancel out Lillibridge. Even as a Braves fan I can't agree with you this one.

Good, I hope the Pirates walk..

Why make a trade, just to make a trade,. Every hour the deal is getting worst and worst.

Because you guys aren't going to compete with Bay next year and you'll never get as much for him as you can now. If you were to resign him for some reason, he'd be eating up 30% of the team's total salary well into his decline years. You guys are getting an OF that could easily surpass Bay in a few years, a 21 year old pitcher who dominated at AA and already has some ML experience, and you're adding 1 or 2 other solid pieces. Pittsburgh fans should be sending Manny gift baskets for forcing the Red Sox into this position, but instead they'd rather just have a year and two months of Jason Bay. Truly amazing.

How does this deal at all make it seem that Bay and Grabow are worth less than Manny? The Sox are trading Manny and 2 prospects for the Bay and Grabow. Besides the Marlins are establishing Manny's value, not the Pirates.

If the Pirates can get Jeremy Hermida, Ryan Tucker, and two more decent prospects - they have to jump on that deal.

Hermida will be plugged in right now. Along with Doumit and McLouth, the Pirates would have a very nice, young core of offensive players that would be controlled until the 2012 season. Add in Andrew McCutchen next year and some nice compliments with Freddy Sanchez, Adam LaRoche, and possibly Pedro Alvarez at 3B and the Pirates offense looks pretty solid for the next few years.

Factor in the pitching that the Pirates will get in Ryan Tucker and the decent pitching they already received in the Nady/Marte deal and the Pirates' future looks much better tomorrow than it does today.

They have to make this deal if they are able to get Hermida and Tucker out of it.

icedrake, you just answered your own question. Obviously the Sox could just make a move for Dunn and it would probably cost them less than what they'd get from Florida. So instead of giving up 2 prospects to get Bay and Grabow, they can probably get a prospect and Dunn. They could they easily swap a prospect for a guy like Ohman. Netting it all out, the Sox essentially deal Manny for Dunn and Ohman, instead of dealing Manny and 2 prospects for Bay and Grabow.

I've heard that Stanton is one of the prospects headed to Pittsburgh. Not sure if anyone has mentioned that but there you have it.

Adam Dunn is not a playoff caliber Player yes he has 32 HR but he also has a ton of strikeouts. Boston has delcarmen they don't need another power pitcher Grabow is a stuff pitcher and Clutch in situations. Boston and Marlins Need to keep pitt as a dealer to benefit the swap.

"You forgot a few key pieces to their long term plan. Honestly I think this is a pretty solid deal for Pittsburgh. Think about it. A core of Nate McLouth, Jeremy Hermida, Ryan Doumit, Andrew McCutchen, Steven Pearce, Jose Tabata and Neil Walker is pretty damn good."

Jeez I forgot about Pedro Alvarez. He looks pretty good too.

My next point did anyone else notice that the Palm Beach article contradicts itself, it starts out saying:

"The Marlins would get Ramirez for Hermida, right-hander Ryan Tucker and two other prospects, with those four players being flipped to Pittsburgh for outfielder Jason Bay and left-hander John Grabow"

Then it goes on to say:
"Pittsburgh would get Hermida and three prospects - two from Florida and one from Boston. One of the Marlins' prospects is believed to be Tucker."

There seems to be a missing Fl prospect???

Anyways I agree that if its just Hermida, Tucker and Jones from Boston and even just one other marginal prospect, then that is not enough of a return for Bay and Grabow. I think thats a start but you need to add at least Stanton and maybe someone like Bard from the Sox.

Huntingdon better not make it with Tucker or Stanton not involved..

End talks now and make a statement that this isn't Littlefield making the trades anymore.

"Adam Dunn is not a playoff caliber Player yes he has 32 HR but he also has a ton of strikeouts. Boston has delcarmen they don't need another power pitcher Grabow is a stuff pitcher and Clutch in situations. Boston and Marlins Need to keep pitt as a dealer to benefit the swap."

You know who else struck out a ton, Reggie Jackson, but I guess he wasn't a playoff caliber player either.

Delcarmen is a righty. The Sox don't want Grabow because he is a stuff pitcher, they want him because he's a lefty and they want a lefty arm out of the pen. The thing is though that Grabow isn't much better against lefties than he is against righties. Ohman on the other hand dominates them. I rather have the latter come playoff time.

What the hell?! Does Theo know the Jedi mind trick or something?! They get rid of a declining pain in the rear (albeit a very good one), get back a replacement with comparable stats, and do it without giving up jack?!

Meanwhile, gotta give props to the Bucs' new GM if this is all kosher...Tucker, Stanton, Hermida, and another?! That's a helluva haul. Throw in Alvarez (assuming he signs) and McCutchen and they've got the look of a legit up and comer.

Then there's the Marlins... How in God's name does this deal make sense for them. Truly, Theo is working some Svengali mojo. It's the only explanation for the Fish, an organization notorious for penny pinching and clinging to their prospects, giving up three of their best players/prospects under the age of 25- cheap commodities- for a quickie rental likely to destroy any semblance of team chemistry. Gotta love it.

Wow, wrote that last post without reading some of the previous stuff. There are some CRAZY sons of...guns, out there. Bucs fans...who knew? My favorite?

'Same with Tampa. They don't seem willing to include Price, Davis OR Hellickson. How many arms do they intend to stockpile? Do they think they can win every year for the next 6 years?

I don't get their thinking at all. All the Pirates would want is ONE of those three plus Brignac a couple spare parts. And TB would then have the best team in the AL East. Don't get it at all.'

How many arms do they intend to stockpile? How stupid are you? Do you look at rich people and think, 'how much money do they need? They should give some to me!' Any team would love to have a stockpile of talented young arms. The question is why WOULD they trade them? And to even include Price is idiotic. He's the top prospect in all of baseball- or at least top 3. ALL you'd want is one of Price, Davis, or Hellickson AND Brignac for Bay? That's it? Gee whiz. Other than charity, though, WHY would the Rays do that? Sorry, pass. Bay's good, but I'll take the two star-caliber prospects over an aging star who'll likely be a year and two month rental. It ain't like the Rays have struggled to find their own talent, ya know?

The Bucs fans are scoffing at a 24 year old outfielder with the potential to be better than Bay, a VERY good young pitching prospect and possibly a young slugger...and they're whining? Like I said...who knew? Beggars can't be choosers.

Its the Marlins that is left sour mouthed cause Manny is going to be a rental and bein that they traded Hermida they will not have a good replacement to Manny after he leaves. SO With or without pitt in the mix thats the case most likely.

Pittsburgh doesn't need OF they need Starting Pitching.

While thinking about this situation I realized that Theo has yet to fail me as a Red Sox fan... I thought well maybe losing Nixon and getting Drew... Drew now an all star... Trading Nomar.. it worked... Yes, he has pulled a few bad deals (Eric Gag Me) but overall, I trust in Theo

Pirates Fans everywere just don't understand that since the Marlins are the losers don't try to drag the pirates don't with them.

The Marlins are my 2 fav team to the pirates and Manny would put a charge in that lineup with Uggla and Jacobs.

So they need to end the deal or make the deal.

"I think that if this trade goes down as Goldstein says, then there can be no doubt that the loser is the Marlins.

The Red Sox manage to move Manny and come out with Bay, a younger cheaper and likely better player, and Grabow, a good lefty reliever.

The Pirates move Bay and Grabow and come out with a king's ransom. On top of Hermida, who's still just 24 and fully capable of fililng the potential that once made him #4 on BA's top 100, they'd be adding a top pitching propect in Tucker as well as a top hitter in Stanton. An awesome haul for the Pirates.

And then there is Florida. All those top young players gone, for two months of old, cranky Manny Ramirez. He could jack out 20 homers from here on out, and I'm not sure this deal would make any sense for Florida. Now lets say that its Willingham and Tucker, without Hermida or Stanton in the deal, and suddenly it makes a lot of sense. But to give up Hermida, who should at least be a solid RF for the next five years and could still be pretty special, as well as two prospects, is just way too much long term value for what Manny could bring.

If I'm a Marlins fan I hope this deal crashes and burns."

Here praying for crash and burn. Like you said if its Williangham and 2 pitching prospect I am okay with. Heck at this point I'll even do Williangham, Tucker, Stanton for Ramirez....but please...please don't trade Hermida, Tucker and Stanton. I think the biggest winners in all of this are Pirates to be honest.(If rumors are correct)

Get Manny out of the AL East, get Manny out of the AL East, get Manny out of the AL East...

I am going to go down on the bottle IF Manny leaves Boston. Manny is my favorite player he gave me an autograph and he is a really cool guy. I think Manny loves the fans, and HOPEFULLY both sides can reconcile and HOPEFULLY it is as easy as chalking it to "Manny being Manny". I love it because he puts the numbers up, and iis having a hell of a career. Manny is my favorite player always will be THE END.

As for people saying Manny is the new Barry Bonds.....NO! If you said that your really insulting the wrong thing. Manny is not very camera shy with his opinions, but he is NOT a cheater. When baseball looks back at all the greats they are going to elect Manny 1st round to the hall of fame because he did it right. I think once you have done all Manny has done and succeeded in every facet of the game (Including the playoffs), then perhaps you should be taken care of by your team. Its sad how soon the front office forgets who put those rings on their fingers because they wouldn't have them without Manny.

"id say that bay is far more comparable to drew than manny. so why not just slide drew up to the fourth spot, lowell to fifth, and youk to sixth. then do the trade with the fish, cut the bucs out of it, and then pencil hermida into the 7 slot.

to me, the difference in papi-protection between bay and drew is negligible. why not stash the prospects. i think we've proven time and again that you can never have too many pitchers, and tucker is a potential stud. and we have minimal power in our system, with only lars anderson and maybe josh reddick appearing as legitimate threats. so we could use stanton.

manny to the marlins for hermida, stanton, and tucker- lets get this done."

I agree, I'd rather see the Sox do that.

And there's a 0% chance the Sox give up either Bowden or Masterson just to get rid of Manny... heh, it might be lower then 0

I don't think Hermida will be much more than he already is so im fine w/ giving him away....ut don't give away Stanton!I'm fine w/ giving Tucker. My question is how will the defense in the of for my marlins work, with us trading a rf for lf.