Mark Teixeira Traded To Angels

I think Wren would take Kotchman,Wood,and Moseley. Or Adenhart,Morales,Willits, and Rivera or (Matthews Jr. with the Braves only having to pay 2 mil. a year for the rest of his contract Angels pick up the rest of the money)

If the Angels really want Tex, it's going to take a package like Kotchman, Adenhart and Chris Pettit. Kotchman is nothing special, he's proven that for 3 years now. His career line is .274/.337/.426. He's a nice role player on a good team, but not a team that wants to make it to the next level.

Mark Texiera is on the trading block? Why havent I heard of this... Im sure there wont be any questions about it in the chat today.

I have come to the conclusion during this process that there is no fan base more delusional than that of the Braves.

In full disclosure, I've been a Braves fan for almost 30 years.

Of course Wren would "take" a lot of the packages you guys describe. That is akin to saying you would "take" three naked supermodels and a keg of beer in your apartment.

Also, you are not going to get regulars PLUS top 5 prospects for a rental player. The only way you get anything of real use aside from a regular and MAYBE a fringe guy is if there is an extension locked in for Teixeira.

And please, save me the "but the Indians traded LaPorta for Sabathia!" nonsense. There wasn't another piece of immediate use in that deal. Most scouts agree that LaPorta was no longer the top prospect in the Brewer chain, and was no better than third on his own team at Huntsville.

In short -- and it pains me to say this, being, you know, an actual Braves fan -- get over yourselves, Braves fans.

Yeah I think you're being a little too hard on Braves fans. I admit some of them are throwing out insane deals, but at the same time, to say that we shouldn't get a top 5 prospect from anyones system for Tex swings things in the other direction a bit. Obviously this is dependent on who the regular is, but if its a guy like Tracy who is average at best at 1B, then I see no way the Braves can pull the trigger unless they get a top 5 guy from the dbacks system (or Owings and maybe a marginal prospects). I think we have to take into consideration that those 2 draft picks are pretty valuable for a Braves organization that prides itself on scouting and player development.

Braves fans (and I am one as well) can be pretty delusional, especially when it comes to trades.

But so can most fans. I don't know if the Braves are at the worst, if there was some way to score them they would most certainly be near the top (if for no other reason then they have a pretty large fanbase), but right now since we have the biggest piece likely to be traded we are certainly the most visible.

In general it is not so much being delusional as much as blinding optimism or dreaming. Mets, Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox all have some people in the fan base who only follow their teams hype and prospects so we get the humorous dream post suggestions that unfortunately they think are plausible. On the Teixeira front just how much does everyone really think 2 months of teixeira is worth? It is somewhat foolish to look at what Atlanta traded for him because they were trading for more of his time. Teams have wised up to the overvalued rental and my personal speculation is that most teams have realized the demands of what those draft picks are worth in terms of actual talent is not consistent with reality. Braves fans might be scoffing at deals for averageish players but what does your team look like next year and he walks for nothing more than the picks. Shaky short term future in my opinion.

I think you'll be eating your words, unbiased homer. The Braves have to get value worth AT LEAST 2 draft picks and 2 months worth of production. That alone is worth more than the mediocrity that is Tracy + Owings or similar offers from other teams.

I have no idea what we'll get, nor will I speculate, but those deals are 50 cents on the dollar.

Honestly, I would probably rank Tracy and Owings as having similar value to the 2 draft picks, though a deal like that would obviously be contingent on what the Braves' scouts think of Owings. He's certainly a guy who could strengthen our rotation for next season and while Tracy is nothing more than an average 1B, that's two holes we could possibly have filled for the next few years. I find it hard to believe that no other contender would beat that offer, but if that's what we settle for I wouldn't be upset.

ink-stained scribe,

I think its pretty funny that you make fun of Francoeur's production, while talking up Melkiy and how he's young and has upside. Melky has an OPS+ of 76 this season, far surpassing Frenchy's 73. As for their careers, Francoeur has the better numbers and he's all of 8 months older than Melky.

nixa37,

I'm clearly not a Frenchy fan. I also acknowledge that he could turn it around and become a solid ML. Of course it would be nice if he would get his K/BB ratio under 6.

I'm just not sure he's going to do it with the Braves, because they anointed him the face of the franchise after a mediocre minor league career just because he was hot as a firecracker when first called up. Even Chipper Jones would have hard time living up to those expectations, and Frenchy's no Chipper.

He got more hype than Jay Bruce and I think Bruce will have a much better career.

Tex would be a pretty sweet fit for Toronto if they win this series with the Rays. I'd put my money on the Jays winning today which gives them 2 so far.

AA,

Yeah his line last season was comparable to an extremely disappointing season for Morneau. His OPS+ was just 121 last season, compared to 140 in 2006 and 149 this season. You still seem to ignore the fact that even last season Kotchman's numbers were average to below average for a 1B. The fact that he is younger and cheaper than Tex is pretty much irrelevant in a discussion of his value as a player. He is young and cheap, but that's about all he has going for him at this point.

As for saying Morales is the Cuban version of Tex, but with a better average is just ridiculous. The only thing they really have in common is they're switch hitters. Morales has nowhere near the plate discipline that Tex has and he still doesn't have as much power. At Morales' age Tex was already posting his 2nd consecutive 930+ OPS, while Morales still hasn't posted numbers that good in America, and that's including 3 straight seasons in the notoriously hitter friendly PCL. He's certainly a good prospect, but for whatever reason the Braves don't like what they see and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

nix,

I agree fully that Frenchy should have spent more time in the minors, and it was a huge mistake not providing some protection from him once he was called up -- another big bat in the OF, a platoon partner, anything to give him time to develop rather than expecting him to play every inning and be a major run producer and a team ambassador.

Given the recent injury disasters that have tanked the season I hope Wren is kicking himself for not forcing Francouer to stay in Mississippi longer.

That said, what do you do with him now? Do you hit him 8th and hope he learns at the ML level? Do you find a LH platoon partner? Do you send him back to the minors and hope he figures it out?

It's a bad situation for the team, and almost entirely self-inflicted.

The most undervalued talent in MLB right now is cheap, average to slightly above average regulars. Too bad the public still operates under the misconception that one player can make a team win. Balance has always been vastly underrated and if you have not noticed the price of average has gone way up, especially in pitching. For the small market teams this makes a big difference. The not so sexy additions of non-superstars is absolutely critical to their success.

The biggest problem I see in making this trade for the Rays would be to make room on the 25-man roster. Glover was just DFA'd, but we'd have to make room among the fielders. Gomes is swinging for the fences every time he's up (everyone knows it too) but I think we might have an option left with Willy Aybar (Not sure). Either way, some cleaning will have to be done if a move for Tex is made.

I highly doubt it would happen, but if we received Melky Cabrera in a trade I would jump off a bridge. He was well above average defensively last year in CF, but this year he has been below average thus far. And I'm not sure where some of you get your numbers, but he's never been a power hitter. He had a .566 SLG for 31 games in AAA in '06 and a .462 SLG for 42 games in A in '04...other than that he never had a SLG of over .450 at any time in the minors. Couple that with his .422 SLG in over 1400 career minor league ABs (not to mention the fact that his brief career major league stats have not even broken the .400 SLG mark) and I'm just not seeing what you guys are. He's just an over-hyped prospect from NY in my eyes.

I doubt the Yankees can make a deal for Tex. But even if they do, where will they put him in the lineup?

I don't see them benching Giambi. And Damon has to DH, mabey play some left field, but then where will they put Nady?

"You still seem to ignore the fact that even last season Kotchman's numbers were average to below average for a 1B."

Really? Do you have the numbers (which I am sure will only include OPS+ for you) for every 1B in the league? Further, ever notice what I said about working in Mike Scioscia's game? Where you make contact and move runners over, as opposed to swinging and missing?

"As for saying Morales is the Cuban version of Tex, but with a better average is just ridiculous."

That's the potential, not necessarily what will happen. Further, you say Morales doesn't have plate discipline, but have you looked at his Juan Pierre-esque K rate?

AA,

First of all, way to insinuate you already know the numbers I'm going to use. Actually I went over to ESPN and looked at their 2007 leader board for 1B. I know its some pretty complicated stuff, but maybe you should try it before insulting other people. Kotchman ranked 7th in avg, 12th in OBP, 15th in SLG, 15th in OPS, 27th in HR, 17th in R, and 17th in RBI. All of the rate stats are out of 20 qualifiers. What would you term those stats as? I mean he's basically only above average in batting average, and we all know that batting average doesn't fluctuate greatly from year to year.

As for Morales, he's 25 and still wasting away in the PCL. He hasn't seen any significant progression in his numbers since reaching that level in 2006 and I see no reason to think he's suddenly going to progress from a mid .800 OPS guy in the PCL to a low to mid .900 OPS guy in the bigs. The comment regarding strike zone discipline was referring to the fact that Morales doesn't take any walks. Just from looking at his stats, it seems he doesn't swing at a lot of balls, but he is also isn't particularly picky when it comes to pitches in the strike zone either. The guy does still strikeout twice as much as he walks, which is actually a far worse ratio than Tex has.

If the Braves take Tracy over Jackson, unless someone like Scherzer or Petit is involved I may to call this deal worse for the Braves than Devine-for-Kotsay. Tracy is injury prone, which we already know does not go well with the Braves while Jackson has stayed at least remotely healthy the past 3 years plus has a Mark Grace-esque ceiling in my opinion if not better.

Giving up Harrison, Salty, and Andrus made me rather bitter involving Tex though.

Sal- LOL. True.

Poppa- with what? They won't trade Conor Jackson and the only half-decent prospects they have left in the system are Scherzer, Parker, and Parra. I'd give the edge to the Angels...if they're willing to change their stingy ways.

Since that ain't likely, I'll go with a wild card like Tampa or the Yanks.

Oh yeah...why do you keep putting the PTI link on every post? Is someone shamelessly plugging a project he has a personal stake in?

LOL Not Joe Morgan, let me know when he does, haha.

Joelcards - I'm glad you think the Tracy/Owings trade would work, but why would the Braves want Tracy, who "isnt anything special but he could play first base" and Owings who "could be a 4 or 5 starter" for Mark Teixiera? You could find players like you described without trading the best bat on the market.

Where would the Yanks put Texiera in their lineup?

Unless they sit Cabrera for most games. They could try to put Nady or Abreu in center, Damon in left. I dont think that would work though. This would be the lineup.

lf-Damon
ss-Jeter
cf-Abreu
3b-A Rod
1b-Texeira
dh-Giambi
2b-Cano
rf-nady
c-Molina

I wish Guru was here to sort this out for us.

lol

Hopefully the Dbacks and the Dodgers will reasess what they are willing to give up in order to keep Tex from going to the other team. This looks to be working out pretty well for the Braves, 2 NL west teams and 3 AL east teams bidding against each other. Not to mention the Angels trying to win it all.

The Yanks may make an insane offer to Wren. They clearly have no limits to do what it takes to win, and they would love to break in that new stadium with a World Series Trophy. And just because Tex is a rental, put him in a lineup with lots of other pop and your playing for a title. His second half numbers are amazing, and the Bravos may get an amazing deal from a team like the Yanks.

I don't buy into the idea that the Braves have to get a MLB ready starter in any deal. With Jurjjens, Campillo, Reyes, Morton, Carlyle, and now possibly Hampton and Jeff Bennett, I think the Braves can make it through the season. Its not as if they are competing for anything now anyway. If you're saying they need another starter for next season, they could probably use one, but with all the contracts expiring this offseason I don't think they have to find that guy right now.

why not just keep teixeira and offer him arbitration? Maybe he'll take it so he won't be taking a 2nd half power hitter contract? No doubt he'll get big money, but at the same token he may want to get a real phat contract next off season. If he doesn't take it, then take your chips and rebuild. Obviously Hudson's a huge blow to next years changes.

ESPN is saying Tex to LAA for Kotchman plus one lesser prospect. Kotchman was pulled from pre-game warmups this afternoon:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3509998&name=mlb_trade_deadline

Word is that the Braves and Angels are close to finalizing a deal centered around Kotchman...

Kotchman for Teixeira in works

Tuesday, July 29, 2008 | Print Entry

Posted by Jayson Stark
Angels first baseman Casey Kotchman was pulled off the field during pregame warmups this afternoon at Fenway Park. And there are strong indications he is about to be traded to the Braves for Mark Teixeira, according to a source with knowledge of those discussions. Details are still being finalized, and additional, lesser names are expected to be involved. But Kotchman for Teixeira is the core of this deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=mlb_trade_deadline

As I've stated, I'm not the biggest Kotchman fan and if there isn't much else of value in the deal, then I'm worried about how this will work out in the long run. However, if the Braves grabbed a good prospect or a couple solid prospects in return, I won't be too upset. Hopefully Kotchman will prove me wrong and this season is just an aberration.

The Providence Journal is reporting that's Marek as well.

Great trade for the Angels especially if Tex has a huge second half. With that pitching they have to be considered to be the favorite in the Al.

Marek looks like an intriguing prospect. He was a starter until last season, and despite an unimpressive ERA he has some pretty strong peripherals. I'm not especially excited, but I'm not pissed off either.

Well, Yankees fans ... you are about to get a taste of what Tex can do ... he will be hitting against you for 4 straight games over the weekend. And (to add insult to injury), he will probably miss the games against the BoSox! ... as will Kotchman.

Game over, it appears LAA is going for it all this year.

Torii, Vlad, and Tex all in the same lineup? Arte knows what he's doing!

I agree, excellent trade for the angels. They get what they need and still have have plenty young players for the future. However, as a braves fan, not too disappointed in getting kotchman, as he obviously was the best young major leaguer we could get. It seems Jackson and Loney just were not going anywhere, as can be understood, so I think Wren finally just decided the best thing to do was get the best available player he could for Tex, and he did. Kotchman is ours till 2012. I hope that Wren is not picking this over the possibility of getting Tracy and Parker, but Marek seems to be a good prospect, so like that as well. I also like the idea we still have Ohman whom we could trade in a sepereate deal and possibly land a young starter-type arm. If this is the best Wren could get, then So be it. Kotchman has proven at the least he is a solid regular, and he is ours for the next 4 years at least. But again, I hope this came after Wren exhausted all efforts to get a deal done to get a young arm and bat.

I'd say the odds of the Sox trading Manny away have just dropped to almost nil.

done deal according to mlb.com, both clubs confirm it. well, tomorrows boston la game should bevery very interesting if he makes the lineup in time for tomorrow that is

As a Baves fan, I like the deal. I'm not happy how this season has turned out, but that's part of the game. I like that Wren has addressed 1B for the next several years. Kotchman is no Tex, but Casey's pretty good and cheap for the next few years. Now we will have some money to spend this offseason.

Wren is not done. We still have several more players that might help a contender. We'll be back next year!!!

The best team in Baseball just got a LOT better. As a Yankees fan....I say, SH#T!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow!! What else can you say but the rich just got richer. Hands down, they are the favorite to win it all, if they werent already. Big props to the Halos as they have avoided making this type of deal in the past. Sometimes you just gotta go for it.

As an Angels fan, I like this trade but resigning Teixeira scares me. BUT I think the comfort Tony Reagins had in this was if Teixeira DOES leave as a free agent, we still have Kendry Morales to play first next year. Morales is a good hitter with a decent glove.

gudjy1,

Obviously a lot of Braves fans were expecting too much out of this deal, but I think the deal we got is superior to the Tracy and Owings proposal that's been bandied about. Tracy and Kotchman currently produce at similar levels, but Kotchman is younger, cheaper, has more upside, plays better defense, and is under team control for another year. As for Owings v. Marek, Owings seems to have potential, but he's struggled at the big league level thus far and has already used a few years service time. I think those two probably have similar value, as Owings may be due for a move to the bullpen anyway.

Obviously as a Sox fan I can't like this deal. The best team in the AL, which of course means the entire league, just got better.

At least this is more evidence prospects/cost controlled young guys will fetch a pretty penny.

Congrats to the halo fans....shall make the playoffs very interesting.....

horrible trade for the braves... guess its a buyers market. Yanks and Angels have robbed the Bucs and Braves at the deadline so far.

What's this do to the odds that Bay goes somewhere?

Hey nixa, how does feliz, andrus, salty, harrison, and jones for kotchman and marek make you feel?

For a year of Mark Teixeira, increase our chances of winning the division, half a year of Ron Mahay, Brett DeVall, Casey Kotchman, and Steven Marek for Feliz, Andrus, Salty, Harrison and Jones. Can't exactly judge that right now, it'll still need a few years of devloping. It didn't help the Braves, but it didn't hurt them either so far.

Well, from our end we also got 2 months of Ron Mahay, 1 year and 2 months of Tex, and Brett DeVall as well. It sucks that we lost Feliz, but DeVall is a guy with a ton of upside as well. As I've stated before Andrus and Salty had no future with the team because neither was going to unseat McCann or Escobar. I think the Braves would consider giving up Salty and Andrus if they still had them in return for Kotchman. Harrison is a potential back of the rotation starter and Jones is unlikely to ever reach the majors other than in the bullpen. I bet the Braves get more production from Marek than the Rangers get from those two. All in all, if the Braves knew they weren't going to compete, they wouldn't make the Tex deal, but they took a chance and made the best of the situation after they failed to compete for a playoff spot. I don't think we necessarily hurt ourselves in the long run.