Rockies To Shop Atkins?

Hopefully it works out a little better than that though...

Blockbuster? How about Atkins and Holliday to Philly for Brett Myers and Ryan Howard. It's obvious that Philly has been having trouble finding a 3B since Rolen left, and Howard just isn't happy in Philadelphia, no matter what he says. Colorado has made it a point to mention that they want a middle/top of the rotation guy, and with the way Myers has been playing since he came back from his demotion, he's a good guy to have in your rotation.
The Phils could then re-sign Burrell to play 1B, and have Holliday take over LF. It may be a blow to their rotation (but the way Myers pitched most of the season, he was a #4 or 5 guy at best), but the Phils lineup will be scary good and with less strikeouts with Feliz and Howard out of there.
This isn't going to happen, but it may give both teams something they have been looking for.

Why would Rockies want Howard when they already have that Helton's contract...perhaps if Phils ate it

I would say Atkins and Jimenez would be plenty. Look at what Jiminez does in that park. And if Santana thinks anything less than 5 runs is a good outing he would have to raise that to 7 or 8 runs when pitching at Coors.

Any way the Tigers could get in on the Atkins deal?
Probably not but they should at least try.

If Atkins is indeed shopped, i'd look for Beane and the A's to make a serious run at him. They have more then enough pitching to make a deal, with no legit 3B prospects to replace Chavez in sight. It looks like Chavez's career at 3rd is all but over, and he will end up as a 1B/DH type from hear on out. Atkins would bring a solid bat to a lathargic lineup, and a quickly improving team.

Trading Myers makes no sense at all for the Phillies, and I don't know why they keep suggesting it. When he sucked, ok, you're going to have the guys who just want to unload him and say he can still pitch well. But now he's pitching well and the team lacks pitching (regardless of what the woes have been this year; it's safe to say they've been a trip away from what's regular).

And, honestly, who cares what Myers did earlier this season if he's not doing it now, and is actually pitching well? The rotation needs someone behind Hamels, and with the way the front office is, it's not going to be a CC or Sheets. Myers is the best pitching acquisition they've made this year and can make for next year, and while I'd LOVE Atkins and Holliday, I'm not trading away something you need, no matter what, to win.

No way the Angels would contemplate trading Santana for Atkins. There is absolutely no reason to do that.

Atkins OPS in 2008 - 793. His OPS away from Coors - 643. Ouch. Granted this has been a bad year but still ...

He's a decent 3rd baseman but is nowhere as valuable as a 25 year old stud with an ERA below 3.50 and a strike out for every inning pitched.

What about a blockbuster like:

Angels get:
Holliday
Atkins

Rockies get:
Figgins
GMJ
Wood/Brown/Morales
Weaver/Adenhart
Bulger

"Even Atkins and Ubaldo Jimenez would probably not be enough."

I honestly have a hard time believing this. Not because of the difference between pitchers, Santana has proven to be the one of the best in baseball. His stuff is nasty and he controls it far better than Jimenez controls his stuff. When looking at their peripheral stats you see just how much better Santana is than Jimenez, he gives up far less hits, while striking out more guys and walking far less. Basically he's a superior pitcher in every facet of pitching.

But Jimenez hasnt been given nearly as much time to develop in the majors as Santana, and plays in a tougher ballpark. His stuff is still electric and he's shown flashes of greatness that lasted for multiple starts at a time.

The combined value of Jimenez and Atkins surpasses that of Santana primarily based on the questions about Santana. Not his stuff of course, but simply what the hell happened in 2007 if this is the real Ervin Santana? A 5.76 ERA and drastically worse all around numbers?

Now I consider Santana an ace now basically, but I'm not quite sure how he's perceived by other front offices based on last years performance.

"...that deal screws the Rockies."

It may look that way on paper, however this deal fills many holes that the Rockies have. For example: Figgins is a versatile player because he can play 3rd, SS, 2nd (2nd being a major weakspot for the Rockies) and all three outfield spots. Figgins also gives them a legit leadoff man who can get on base, steal bases and who I think could post about 10-15 homers in Coors.

Matthews, who right now is awful, (but you have to remember too that he had a partially torn ligament in his knee and was playing through it and with Rivera's recent power surge is only playing about once a week, which is difficult for a player like Matthews who has a long swing) could become a legit power threat and solid outfielder in Colorado.

Wood(.294 30HR 82RBI) /Brown(.326 21HR 67RBI) /Morales(.349 15HR 68RBI) are the top hitting prospects in the Angels organization. Wood can play 3rd, SS, and 2nd while Brown can play 3rd, 2nd and 1st. Morales, who can play both 1st and the corner outfield spots, can become the future face of the Rockies organization and can replace Helton if he is traded or when he retires.

Weaver/Adenhart are two young talented pitchers who both have huge upsides. Weaver is of course in the starting rotation and Adenhart is the Angels top pitching prospect. With Francis, Jimenez and Cook being locks for next years rotation, Weaver/Adenhart would be the 4th and the Rockies have 3 other starters this year who could battle for the final spot next year or they could trade or sign someone in the offseason.

Bulger is a flame-throwing righty who this year has been flat-out dominating AAA by posting a .62 ERA and collecting 14 SV. He could step in next year and either close (as the replacement for Fuentes if he leaves) or set-up for Corpas.

If this trade is made, it would be a good deal for both teams. The Angels would get two boppers who would make them, IMO, by far the best lineup in baseball while the Rockies would receive many versatile players with huge upsides that would give their organization something to look forward to in the next few years, (similar to what the Rays are doing this year with their young core).

"You know, it is really sad when a guy who beats his wife, without really apologizing, then flips out at a reporter, is playing for a big league team, while one of the greatest hitters ever is sitting at home and under a sham indictment."

My statement was about how Myers pitched earlier this year (before they sent him down), not his personal life.

The whole premis in the article is that Atkins may go INSTEAD of Holliday.

I don't think the Rox are prepared to let both go. I'd say its 50% they trade one or the other (majority of that being Holliday) and 49% they keep both and 1% they trade both.

Ian Stewart is poised to play either 3rd or LF depending on what happens. And Spilbourghs could play either LF or CF depending on what happens.

I think the idea that Colorado is going to do a fire sale is WAY premature. They're a third place team in a fluxuating division.

With 1 or 2 more 10 game winners this team could be in the playoffs again.

To trade Holliday AND Atkins for those 10 game winners is 1 step forward and 2 giant leaps back, especially when its totally possible that those 10 game winners may be Greg Reynolds or Franklin Morales or Jason Hirsch.

Hypothetically if both are traded in a package deal I think you're looking at future HOF material needed to send the other way, ie Josh Beckett. Otherwise, there's just no point. The Rockies aren't looking to salary dump.

some strange thoughts in this thread.
holliday-atkins for myers-howard?
and i believe matthews jr has a no-trade
the rox are on a fine line - they just need one or two moves to be a dominant team in that division.
how about something like holliday-hirsch-seth smith for bay-lowrie-buchholz.
buchholz's potential is the extra cost for the BoSox to have an ortiz-holliday mash. hirsh could be an innings-eater for sox and lowrie plugs right into 2nd for rox.

Alrite, Ill try something different. What about:

Angels get:
Holliday
Atkins

Rockies get:
Kendrick
Figgins
Adenhart

(I would like to get Matthews and his mega contract involved in this trade, but then I feel that the Angels would be giving up too much.)

Anyways, as much as I would love not to give up Kendrick because I think he will be a batting champion for years to come, I like this trade for both teams.

What do you guys think?

Yeah, they might be a little thin at first, but I think Aybar will develop to become a legit leadoff guy. Until then, Izturis could leadoff given the fact that he would become the starting 2nd baseman. It might look like this:

Izturis 2B
Aybar SS
Tex 1B
Vladdy RF
Holliday LF
Hunter CF
Atkins 3B
Rivera/GA DH
Napoli C

The twins need to make a big move in the off season such as this one as long as they dont give up slowey. He is a Brad Radke in the making and i have heard a comparison where if slowey gets as good as possibly he can a greg maddux. I wouldnt go there but you cant be too bad if a analyst compares you to maddux.

Perkins
Hughes/Duensing/Boof
and a

Im wondering though what they twins would do with Buscher. he has been playing really well. I wonder if the Rockies would be willing to take Buscher as the main piece.

Buscher
Humber/Mulvey
Swarzack
Robertson

I'm personally not enticed by either Figgins or Kendrick at all. 3 HRs and 54 RBI combined between them. For 40HR and 156 RBIs? Really?

I know its perceived that 2B is a weakspot for the Rockies because there's not one specific guy in the role, but the Rox are getting decent output from the position as a whole.

And Ian Stewart at 3rd is a future star.

I'm sorry to say I'm not very familiar with Adenhart but if he's not on the LA roster he must be similar to Rockies young arms like Morales and Reynolds who have been called up before but need maturation. Thats really not what the Rockies need. We'd be more interested in guys like Weaver or Sauders that win now. The Rox would probably want both just for Holliday.

Sorry, I screedw up a bit there. The Wood/Brown/Brown is supposed to be Wood/Brown/Morales, and the pitching prospect was supposed to be an outfield one. My bad.

bballrox:

I kinda like that trade however for the Angels to afford both Atkins and Holliday you would have to take at least some part of GMJ's contract. Im not saying all just some part because the Angels have other people to sign in the offseason, ex. Teixeira, Franky. Would you be interested in Weaver instead of Santana. He can strike out about just as many and IMO will be a future ace. He just needs development.

The Rox leadoff guy as soon as he's healthy will be Spilborghs who playing part time in 72 games before injury had .314 average, 6HR, 33RBI and .420 OBP.

I still think the idea that the Rox will trade both is prepostorous though. The only thing I can see happening is the Rox trade one in the offseason and if they are struggling they might trade the other and go into some sort of rebuilding mode, but to trade both at once would be equal to a Marlin-esque fire-sale which isn't even close to necessary considering the Rox are drawing 30,000+ a game again and could easily compete for the playoffs next year. There would be mass hysteria around here and massive season ticket cancellations.

The goal of the Rockies is to trade a Boras client before he leaves, but to also get IMMEDIATE help to secure another playoff spot while they still can afford Tulo and Stewart. Can Adenhart do that?

ProgMatinee:

Spilborghs does look like a solid player, but it's hard to imagine him being a top-tier leadoff guy. I mean he can hit but so can Figgins and I looked at his career stats and he only has 16 career steals. Figgins has more this season and in past years has stolen 50+. Im not saying get rid of Spilborghs but imagine him as your #2 hitter behind Figgins. I mean Figgins gets on, steals 2nd and Silborghs lines a single in the right field gap. Figgins scores... your already up 1-0 before your power guys come to the plate.

As for Adenhart, he is already really mature. I mean he already made his major league debut and was very poised. The start didnt go haow he wanted but he still looked very poised. He could help next year, but may not be at his high peak for another year. If you can wait for him it should pay off.

I honestly say we can't wait for anyone who's had 1 major league start.

We'll trade you Willy Taveras for him. LOL.

Atkins should garner at least 2nd or 3rd starter NOW. An MVP caliber every day player like Holliday realistically could be traded straight up for a guy like Jake Peavy. Not a guy thats looking 2 or 3 years from now potential.

I'm way biased myself, but I'm tired of all the talk from LA, Boston, Chicago, and NY thinking these guys could be had for nothing. Its obvious by the lack of action from the Rox despite all the rumors on numerous players all year that they aren't falling for it.

ProgMatinee: I'm a Rockies fan as well, and probably as biased as you are. But us getting Chone Figgins would let us get rid of Taveras but keep the speed. And obviously, we'd get a lot more than that. Taveras could be dealt for more, and honestly, I don't why you don't like him that much. He was hitting way over .300 last year, and is leading the MLB in SB. If he got his hitting stroke back, he'd be amazing, and that to me, seems likely due to last year.

#1 Angels Fan: And it gives the Rockies the pitching talent they so desperately need as well, as well as ab above average replacement for Holliday. Then if Helton returns and hits over .300 and gets 90 RBI's like he does nowadays, this trade would go down amazingly. It solves our 2nd base problem to. Forward it to the Rockies, Angels, and Selig!

So to finalize the deal, which of the three (Wood, Brown or Morales) would you take?

#1 Angels Fan: Most likely Morales. He can play left, right?

Rockies hopeful pitching rotation:

1. Cook
2. Weaver
3. Francis
4. Jimenez
5. Open competetion between De la Rosa, Rusch, Reynolds, Morales, Hirsh, and Adenhart

Progmatinee: 4th outfielder or we trade Taveras so he can start. Maybe we can get someone who you think is more major league ready in return for him?

Spilly is over the 4th outfielder thing. Just can't justify it.

I'd hate to lose either Atkins or Holliday, but the more I think about it, the best thing for the club is to trade JUST ONE of them for great pitching and let Stewart fill in either 3B or LF. Trade Willy for a speedy 2B and Spilly becomes the everyday CF.

How about Atkins for Figgins and a good pitcher?

If only Atkins were involved: Yes, I'd say Atkins and Hynick for Figgins and Saunders.

If you want Saunders instead of Adenhart then we're gonna want a guy like Fowler, Koshansky or Nix instead of Cornejo. That's not because Im being biased, it's because that would seriously hurt our rotation. But unless your willing to give a guy like that up then... OK

No way is Atkins worth both Figgins AND Saunders. If we're trading Figgins AND Saunders then we would want Holliday.

Holliday for Figgins, Sauders and Weaver.

Before last year, when he finally decided to do some good in the minors, he was having seasons of .230's and .240's in Double and Triple A. Yes, he was good in Triple A this year and last year, but that stint he had in the MLB...was just pathetic.

Scratch Nix... Koshansky or Fowler?

Koshansky: maybe...If you gave us a mid-level prospect. Fowler is untouchable.

Nope, I disagree with that. Holliday, Koshansky, Hynick, for Figgins, Weaver, Wood/Brown/Morales, Adenhart, and Evans.

Weaver, Wood/Brown/Morales**

What about Nick Green instead of Adenhart. Green is also at AAA and is similar to Adenhart, just maybe a tad less developed.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Nick%20Green&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=446550

Or what about throwing in Bulger to the previous trade "I" mentioned?

I'm fine with both Bulger and Green. here's the deal:

Angels get:
Holliday
Koshansky
Hynick
Cornejo
Shane Lindsay

Rockies get:
Figgins
Weaver
Morales
Green
Bulger

I'll get rid of Green for Hynick, that better?

And I want Brown instead of Morales, I changed my mind. And I'll keep Hynick for Adenhart only.

OK...Brown instead... No Hynick so no Adenhart. Looks like this:

Angels get:
Holliday
Koshansky
Cornejo
Linsay?

Rockies get:
Figgins
Weaver
Brown
Bulger

Is that right?

Pretty much...I changed my mind about one the prospects though...

Taylor instead of Lindsay.

OK... I found Lindsay. Yeah Ill take him, but is he a starter or reliever?

Lindsay's a starter.

So deal 2?

You get Taylor, Holliday, and Koshansky for Figgins, Weaver, Wood, and Bulger?

Alright.

So what now?