Heyman's Latest: Sabathia, Roberts, Cain

I know its been said here before, and this article further illustartes the point; I just dont think CC wants to play in New York. Yes I know money talks, BS walks, but I just dont see CC to NY happening.

"just think he wants to be in the National League, because he wants to hit. My prediction he's a dodger, but hopefully a phillie"

Agreed, but i just dont think the Dodgers should spend that money on CC. They need to be devoting all their resources to resigning Manny, end of story. I know he's a pain in the ass but the guy has changed the complete complexion of that team's offense, which has been their biggest problem, not the pitching. Manny has almost single handly catapulted that team to the head of their division and made them a dangerous team in October.

I'd have to agree with everyone thinking he won't go to the Yankees. From what it sounds like, he just doesn't want to be on the east coast away from him hometown anymore. Could be the same scenario with Teixeira, being an east coast guy and not wanting to stay here on the west coast.

-70% chance he lands in Dodger Town. Seems to be the perfect fit, NL team near his home with plenty of money to throw at him.

-15% chance he becomes a Giant. Just can't see it happening with Barry Zito's huge worthless contract.

-15% chance he becomes an Angel. They might have some nice money to throw at him depending on what happens with Tex, plus it will be near his home and maybe an opportunity for him to DH but highly doubtful.

"Could be the same scenario with Teixeira, being an east coast guy and not wanting to stay here on the west coast."

Again, agreed with that point. If CC does spurn the yanks, the egg on their face alone will not permit them to miss out on Tex. I think it would be a certainty that Tex is in pinstripes.

Question Halos, if Tex leaves, do the Angels feel confident with their internal options at 1B, Kendry Morales and Matt Brown?

I think the Halos would have several options at 1B if Tex were to walk. None of these options would be as good as Tex but you can turn around and use the $18m on some other area that needs to be addressed.

Morales (919 OPS in AAA) and Brown (953 OPS in AAA) are both decent options. Resigning Rivera to play 1B is another option. Finally, making a trade for a guy like Jacobs could be done as well.

"Question Halos, if Tex leaves, do the Angels feel confident with their internal options at 1B, Kendry Morales and Matt Brown?"

From the Halos contingent, I'd have to say it's a huge loss. I think most of us believe that Tex is actually the present and future of this club. Vlad of course is the face of the franchise but on the decline while Tex has shown that his bat and his defense are vital to the well being of our future. While Kendry is a viable option next year in the case that Tex leaves, I don't feel he's ready or talented enough to carry this team as Tex has done since he was acquired.

As for your question about Matt Brown, he's seen little time this year but shows he's got nice pop in his bat though we tend to believe he is more of an option at 3B rather then 1B. I personally am more into the thinking that Kendry will end up in RF, while Vlad will move to DH. And the future 1B will be in the hands of Mark Trumbo by 2010. Of course this all depends on what decison Tex comes to.

My prediction is Tex ends up a Yankee next year. As good as he is and as much as we'd love to keep him, there's just too many factors that seem to be pointing to him heading back to the East. There's some speculation of course out there that his wife does not like being so far away from her family and the same goes with him. So you could easily add all the prime factors together and gather an easy decision. Family + Money + Location = Yankees

err Fielder even

Let’s just say, Cain is traded for Fielder straight up and the Giants sign CC for around Zito years/money, which is what it would probably take. Even at a hometown discount, CC will likely make about $15M per year.

Matt Cain is under the Giants control for the next 3 years at very reasonable prices (2009: $2.65 million, 2010: $4.25 million, 2011: $6.25 million club option). Swapping him for Fielder, would cost the Giants a few million more as Fielder is arbitration eligible for the next 3 seasons before becoming a free agent in 2012.

Given his numbers, Fielder would probably win some pretty good loot in arbitration, which is why, it would behoove the Giants to try to sign him long term after acquiring him (and should probably gauge his willingness to do so before trading for him.) Ryan Howard won $10M in arbitration last year and even if Fielder does get that much, he’d probably get close to it as he’s put up some pretty nice numbers. By buying out Fielder’s arb years, the team might save some money in the short term, but the deal would probably be backloaded and include options for more money.

Also, Barry Zito would still be on the books thru 2013 (with an team option for 2014 that could vest based on innings pitched requirements).

However, in 2013, Tim Lincecum will be a free agent (unless the Giants can lock him up sooner, which task they, so far, haven’t been able to do.) To resign Tim, it will also take a buttload of money. If they keep him thru arbitration (2011-2013) it will cost a buttload of money. Regardless, I find it hard to believe that the Giants would have 3 starting pitchers making more than $10-$15M per season and a 1b making probably $10-15M per year, all at the same time. We’re talking $50-60M+ for 4 guys, including 3 starting pitchers.

Yes, there are some assumptions here, but there’s no way that these two deals get done like that. Of course, it might not be a bad idea, if the team locked up Lincecum long term, but they can’t waive a magic wand and make the Albatross’s contract disappear. Due to that horrible signing, the Giants, in the long run, can have CC or Lincecum, but not both. As a Giants fan, I’d prefer Lincecum.

Also, the Giants’ biggest hole is at 3b, not 1b.

On trading Cano for any of:

kemp/ethier/loney/billingsley/kershaw/broxton.

Kemp I could see, but both sides would have to throw in players because I don't think either side would do the trade straight up.

Ethier/Loney - why would the Yankees want them? Nothing special here.

Broxton - No need, the Yankees bullpen was good this year and they have better relievers expected to be on the team next year.

Billingsley - I could see a match here, but I think the Dodgers would want too much to make a trade make sense for the Yankees, and Cashman would probably prefer to stick with his own stockpile of young arms.

Kershaw - Good as he may be, with Hughes and Joba already on board, what's the point? Where would he fit in? If the Yankees traded for him, they'd practically have to turn around and trade either him or Hughes, making it a pointless trade.

Sooo your proposing Fielder for Cain AND a prospect, then sign CC? This article just jumped of the looney farm on that note.

Why trade Cain who is under team control for a over -hyped 1b who will probably walk the next year after you traded for him? I guess there is no reason to think that Prince wouldn't sign, but adding CC to the mix jumps the payroll sky high.
Zito-CC-and Prince on the books through at least 2013 means you can't resign your current ace Lincecum and probably won't be able to extend Posey either.

Doesn't make sense to me...

Better option is to go after either CC or Tex in the off-season.

I like the CC sign better. The Giants might have arguably the best rotation in baseball with CC, Lincecum, Cain (AT THREE!!) then Sanchez and Zito (at FIVE)

The Giants could have the worst offense in baseball and still win that division with that rotation.

Or, sign Tex (takes care of the middle power need) then get crazy and sign for some one like a Dempster or Sheets for less money than what CC costs.

You're crazy if you think its only gonna take 15mm to get CC. He's looking for Johan money (Johan got 6/$175).

As for the Rockies question. I highly doubt CC would be interested in going to the Rockies unless they blew him away with the money/years which the Rockies ownership will never do. They can't even afford to keep the players they have which is why its about 50/50 you see Holliday and/or Atkins get moved this year.

As far as the Angels go, I would love to see them get CC and Tex but realistically its extremely unlikely they get both, possibly wont get either. I see Tex resigning with the Angels for an offer around 8/$160. But that doesn't leave much extra for CC when you figure in extensions for Lackey and Vlad are needed after 2009 season.

Also, all these dodger fans talking about the Yankees thinking they are entitled to every teams best players: No one ever said Cano for kemp straight up. In the original post it was Cano in a package for Kemp. Then in one of the posts its suggested Cano and Kennedy (or another young starter) for kemp.

"On trading Cano for any of:

kemp/ethier/loney/billingsley/kershaw/broxton.

Kemp I could see, but both sides would have to throw in players because I don't think either side would do the trade straight up.

Ethier/Loney - why would the Yankees want them? Nothing special here.

Broxton - No need, the Yankees bullpen was good this year and they have better relievers expected to be on the team next year.

Billingsley - I could see a match here, but I think the Dodgers would want too much to make a trade make sense for the Yankees, and Cashman would probably prefer to stick with his own stockpile of young arms.

Kershaw - Good as he may be, with Hughes and Joba already on board, what's the point? Where would he fit in? If the Yankees traded for him, they'd practically have to turn around and trade either him or Hughes, making it a pointless trade."

IIRC, Ethier is opsing higher than any OFer currently employed by the yanks. While Loney's bat would probably not play at 1b in NY, his defense and age alone make him attractive, never mind his price tag.

Broxton is currently better than any bullpen the yankees have not named Joba or Mo. Billingsley is superior to any of the "stockpiled" young arms Cashman has and of Kershaw, Joba and Hughes, which is currently still starting in the majors?

Robinson Cano is a monster. The guy is going to win batting titles, possibly MVP's. The only question remains whether or not he will be a Yankee batting champion. He will be, unless the are stupid enough to unload him right now when his value is as low as it could ever possibly be. You guys (fans) need to start paying attention to some baseball and stop listening to everything that the media says. Jose Reyes was supposed to be an immature, selfish, lazy, baby. This was in like May. Its a good thing the Mets didn't listen to the morons and the media and trade away Reyes, because he is a superstar, and everybody who knows anything about baseball knows this. Same thing with Cano. They are different players, but Cano is a superstar in the making and it would be the definition of moronic to trade him right now. Which they won't. Unless Hank gets involved, because with that idiot, who knows what could happen.

"Would the Rockies really jump into a bidding war for CC. I know that the last year's world series might spur some investment in the team, but that along with trying to get Holliday re-signed would easily push them to over 100 million per year. Would their penny-pinching ownership actually do that. I really doubt it. "

My opinion on that is, if you can get CC, who gives a hell about Matt Holliday. Just sign Juan Rivera, trade Holliday, and watch Jaun almost replicate the numbers Holliday put up. I am tellin you. .325/.380/.560 in Colorado. Point is, just sign any slugging LF, or any good hitter for that matter, and watch them thrive in Colorado. Ryan Garko probably puts up a .300/.380/.550 line there. Sign pitchers, not hitters in that park.

Yankees should trade Hughes for Kemp

Trade cash for Maggs.

Sign CC, Garland and re-sign Moose then trade Cano and 2 prospects for Dan Haren.

Trade Jackson,Horne,Kennedy,Montero and Melky for Ryan Howard.

Sign Orlando Hudson.

1.Damon-LF
2.Jeter-SS
3.A-Rod-3B
4.Howard-1B
5.Magglio-DH
6.Posada-C
7.Kemp-CF
8.Nady-RF
9.Hudson-2B

Wang
CC
Haren
Moose
Garland

"Yankees should trade Hughes for Kemp

Trade cash for Maggs.

Sign CC, Garland and re-sign Moose then trade Cano and 2 prospects for Dan Haren.

Trade Jackson,Horne,Kennedy,Montero and Melky for Ryan Howard."

Whoa. Slow down there. A lot.

The Dodgers likely wouldn't trade Kemp straight up for Hughes at this point, considering the Dodgers have more pitching in their organization than hitting, and Kemp performed far better this year.

It'll take more than just a salary dump to add Ordonez. At least one or two good prospects will be going to Detroit as well.

The Diamondbacks will have no interest in moving Haren now. They're young guys are beginning to come into their own and Haren is under contract cheaply for three years. He's untouchable.

And honestly, you're giving up WAYYYYY too much for Howard. You're talking about giving up a top CF prospect who should be ready within a year, a potential back of the rotation starter in Horne, another one in Kennedy (who still dominated AAA again this year and still has potential), Melky who I have little to say about, and then Jesus Montero, who has a simply monster ceiling as a hitter as well as the potential to play catcher. It wouldn't take nearly that much to pry Howard from Phillies. Or at least sub out one of Jackson and Montero.

BTW

Dodger fans. If your team is so good why are they playing .500 ball. Yeah broxton is great, Eithier too. But dont tell me that playing in the AL East wouldnt make any difference. All the teams in NL West are bellow .500. Who did the Yankee young kids had to play. Lets see the Rays, Red Sox, and blue Jays ,all teams at least 10 games over .500. Who did Kershaw and Billingsey have to face, the Dimondbacks, Padres, and Giants. These three teams are easily one of the worst hitting teams in MLB. Other than Martinh and Ethier the Dodgers have nothing. Keep your prospects, the Yanks dont want them.

In keeping with that theme... Keep Robinson Cano., don't want him. These fantasy trades that NY writers keep coming up with aren't worth the paper they're written on. Good luck finding good young hitters on the cheap.

To yanks fans, the only star players in baseball are on their 25-man. No offense but you guys are as close to as ridiculus as you can get. As long as the yanks fans exist, no worries Cubs fans, you are still number 2.

"Trade Jackson,Horne,Kennedy,Montero and Melky for Ryan Howard."

I'd take it!!

Dodger fans. If your team is so good why are they playing .500 ball. Yeah broxton is great, Eithier too. But dont tell me that playing in the AL East wouldnt make any difference. All the teams in NL West are bellow .500. Who did the Yankee young kids had to play. Lets see the Rays, Red Sox, and blue Jays ,all teams at least 10 games over .500. Who did Kershaw and Billingsey have to face, the Dimondbacks, Padres, and Giants. These three teams are easily one of the worst hitting teams in MLB. Other than Martinh and Ethier the Dodgers have nothing. Keep your prospects, the Yanks dont want them.

alright ill break it down for u
the dodgers r playing 500 ball for a reason INJURY. and dont start telling all that crap about posada for 2 months, now u got a 14time allstar, 13time gold glove, matsu was hurt, but it gave many kids the oppurtunity. the dodgers have had 3 third basemen go down, kuroda for a month, penny, a 16game winner last yr, down for essenitally half a yr, kent, furcal, pierre, jones, and have rellied on their young talent more than any other playoff team, besides the rays, to get them into playoff contention, waiting for some big guys to help out. they have 11 guys, including pitchers, with less than 3yrs of mlb service playing for them everyday. thats why there at 500

nrmax, scribbletone, thanks for twisting what I said to bash me. Greatly appreciated there.

First things first - if anyone is trading for Cano with the contract he has, they have to be assuming this year is a fluke and the previous 3 seasons are in line with what you can expect. No one is going to take on that contract otherwise.

Ethier, yeah, he's definitely a solid player. But at the end of the day, a corner outfield that hits 20 home runs and isn't going to steal a significant number of bases isn't that hard to find. The Yankees would not have given Cano the contract they did if they considered him equivalent to a guy like this.

Loney - I'm sorry, but he really hasn't shown anything special. You're not going to see the Yankees trade for a sub .800 OPS first baseman.

Broxton - Again, what would be the point? Yes, he's a great reliever. But the Yankees bullpen was a strength this year and they have Melancon and Sanchez slotted in to join the pen next year. Broxton would certainly make the pen better, but, the gain from adding him to the bullpen is a lot less than the loss from losing Cano.

Billingsley - I'm sure the Yankees would love to have him. But I'm sure any trade talks would start at Cano, Hughes, and more. Considering Cashman wouldn't trade Hughes for Johan (a pitcher who's AL stats were better than Billingsley's NL stats), what makes you think Cashman would even consider making a deal here?

Kershaw - yeah, he's great to have. But what do you next? The Yankees tried starting this season with 2 rookies in the rotation and decided it was not something to repeat. Realistically, you've got more guys fighting to be in the rotation than you can comfortably work in at once, so you've either got guys at AAA a lot longer than they should be, or you're trading someone away. And what's the point of trading for someone just to trade him away?

I agree with alot of the dodgers fans when they say that yankee fans are putting too much stock in cano's trade value. Yes, he has amazing potential, and this year may be a fluke. But the fact is, the yankees would be selling low on cano, and all of the dodgers players mentioned, are having good years. Which is why unless the dodgers really do see this year as a fluke, the yankees are better off holding onto cano.

On a different note, what does anyone think it will take for the yankees to get DeJesus from the royals. He would certainly be cheaper than Kemp(no cano). His defense may be poor for center, but you could slot him in right with damon in center and nady in left(assuming abreu is not back).

Maybe a package of Kennedy, Edwar Ramirez/Veras, McAllister? Just thinking out loud with that package.

DodgersFAN, I think you're arguing against your cause a little...

"Plus Cano is not worth Either and Loney for the what 20 people who said that. Next year both of them could EASILY be hitting 20 homers and 100 RBIS in a season!"

Cano in '07 - 19 HR, 97 RBI, essentially the stats you just tossed out. That was from the 7 and 8 spots in the lineup. You do realize that if you take a 2nd baseman, a 1st baseman, and a corner outfielder all with identical, the 2nd baseman is worth a lot more than the other guys, right?

"Also Billigsley was just named the Dodgers "ACE" there is No way that Cano is worth just Billingsley"

Of course there wouldn't be a straight swap there. It'd probably have to be Cano, a top pitching prospect, and a lower level prospect or two. But Cashman probably would never do it.

"Also why would the Dodgers trade Broxton he is soooooo good aas a set up man to Saito I mean who whouldn't want to have a set up man whose fastball hits 100mph at least once to 5 times a game...."

Why do you make any trade? They'd trade him if they were offered a return that was worth more to the team than he is. No matter how good a setup guy is, he's still less valuable than a good starting player.

lol molina at catcher not second

"I agree with you that cano, and like 3 prospects might be worth billigsley but the dodgers arent giving him up."

So we're in agreement, both on what the trade would have to be and that it wouldn't happen.

"Ok.....w/e u think about 2nd base being worth more thats fine not my opinion but ok."

You're not familiar with positional scarcity? The short and simple version is it's much harder to find a player capable of playing the positions up the middle of the field than someone who can play a corner spot. Because of that, the average player at a position up the middle has weaker offensive stats than the average corner player. Therefore, if you have a corner player and an up the middle player with equal stats, the up the middle player has more value. If you don't agree, that's fine, but you're not going to find many baseball executives that feel the way you do.

"remember what happened with Andruw Jones in 06 great right? than in 07 similar to Cano's number whose to say that won't happen with Cano."

You're getting desperate if you need to compare a guy with bad knees and 11+ seasons in the majors to a 25 year old with 3 seasons to make your case.

"Who would trade two guys that will hit between 16 - 25 homers and get 85-110 RBIS's for a guy who will hit 16 - 20 homers and 70-100 RBI's what gereal manager would do that."

Even ignoring the stat inflations there, you'd need some pretty odd circumstances for that to make any sense. Where'd you pull that from? We've been talking about 1 for 1 trades not making sense here.

"Finally I want to know what team doesnt want a setup man that throws 100mph and has a good demand to set up their closer.......BROXTON!!!!!! also the dodgers won't be able to get a good starter for him."

What point are you trying to argue here? I have no idea what you're trying to say. Yes, Broxton is a good player, no doubt about it. My points were:

a) Yankees + Broxton - whoever would've had Broxton's roster spot - Cano + a replacement 2B = a worse team than they have now. Would the Yankees try to sign Broxton if he was a free agent? Good chance. Is he enough of an upgrade over what they have now to justify a trade? Most likely not.

b) You asked why the Dodgers would trade Broxton. Plain and simple, teams overpay in trades for setup guys. Think Texas isn't happy with what they got in return for 2 months of Eric Gagne?

lakersDodgersYankees4Life

Why dont you take a look at the Yankees bullpen and rotation and see how many rookies are pitching out of the pen and are having the best year for the Yankees bullpen in years. They were forced to have guys like Ponson and Rasner to start. Juan Pierre sucks. You lost Pennny who had 16 wins, how about 19 wins from Wang. The Yankees still have 85 wins in the toughest division in baseball.

You'd have to believe the Giants would jump all over Cain for Braun, if they're truly looking to move him for a slugger.

With that said, the Brewers probably don't make that trade.

Braun signed an 8 year roughly $45 million deal, with the potential to receive a total of $51 million. The Brewers did this to lock up a future with the slugger, not to trade him away.

Wait wait forgot a few: Phil Hughes (most sought after prospect pitcher in baseball), Tim Wakefield, Jackson, Litsch, Marcum. lol. i could go on and on.

As far as cano goes... i'm going to say it. Overrated. Yea there were teams inquiring about him in '06. But the yankees couldn't fixate a major deal around him at this point.

CC: i've always thought would be a yankee but now i see AJ burnett or Ben sheets as more reasonable options.

Here is another reply to yanksfan...

First of all I am agreeing somewhat with AA on this... "The pitching in the NL West is better than that in the AL East. The parks in the NL West are less hitter friendly than those in the AL East.

the pitching is not much better in the NL west but definitly the parks are more pitcher friendly in a huge way.

Also I am agreeing with TruDru22 when he says that ppl in the AL EAST realize that Either and Loney are as good as they actually are. Either and Loney are much better than any other farm player the yankees have indeed produced. And to add to this,

"Ethier/Loney - why would the Yankees want them? Nothing special here." you said it yanksfan dont deny it I bet people who have actually seen either and loney play can prove that both are if not better than equal to Cano but since Cano plays in the more hitter friendly parks in the AL East, he is able to get more homers because the fields are smaller....example yankee stadium, left field and right field, fenway park right field, camden yards right field, not sure abot Roger Centre, and finally ALL OF TROPICANA field, if someone hits it really high it is easy to lost that ball in the dome, no domes in the NL West.

"Cano in '07 - 19 HR, 97 RBI, essentially the stats you just tossed out. That was from the 7 and 8 spots in the lineup. You do realize that if you take a 2nd baseman, a 1st baseman, and a corner outfielder all with identical, the 2nd baseman is worth a lot more than the other guys, right?" Instead of showing me his best year possible, than show me this years stats and tell me why you did that because I have a feeling that when the Dodgers signed Andruw Jones, they looked as his best year to, not his current year like you are doing with Cano, this is 2008 not 2007 when the Sox won the world series.

"Even ignoring the stat inflations there, you'd need some pretty odd circumstances for that to make any sense. Where'd you pull that from? We've been talking about 1 for 1 trades not making sense here."

I pulled the fact that there might be Loney and Either for Cano from another quote of yours which i used earlier..."Ethier/Loney - why would the Yankees want them? Nothing special here." Don't try to claim that you didnt say something bad like that.

Finally to hit my last point for know... The Dodgers don't need Cano right now, the Dodgers have Blake Dewitt who can easily be moved like many others to second base.... you said that that is a position with very few players but some players if not a lot can be moved to that position. Also the Dodgers farm system is great and In the next year the Dodgers could call up Lucas May to play catcher and Martin to play third which he proved himself so that means the Dodgers don't need Cano right now and what they need is Kemp and also have you guys forgotten about Melky Cabrera and Johnny Damon or are they just not allowed to play center field. Finally maybe we should move this to MLB.com where more people will read it.

"AA, NL West pitchers are (very arguably) better because they face inferior hitters."

Either that, or the hitters in the AL East (very arguably) look better because they pitching isn't as good.

""AA, NL West pitchers are (very arguably) better because they face inferior hitters."

Either that, or the hitters in the AL East (very arguably) look better because they pitching isn't as good."

Considering the NL West has pitchers in the lineup while the AL East has DH's, I would put a lot more weight on the NL West has weaker hitters argument.

Let's not forget that most pitchers see a drop in their ERA when switching from the AL to the NL.

as much as i would love to see sabathia on the yanks, he dominates the NL and i cant see him leaving