Offseason Outlook: Boston Red Sox

Bowden in the pen? i dont know about that, i think we should stick with Masterson in the pen and give Bowden the starter gig, that kids is a pitbull. Cast away Timlin and sign something respectable to fill the space

basically the sox are going to come out of the gate, for the most part, looking exactly the same for maybe the exception of 5 players here and there. sweet.

Is Mike Lowell really going to come back for sure? what are the %'s of him coming back

As a Yanks fan, I hope you guys keep Timlin haha
Nothing like having the Farnsworth equivalent on the Sox

Being a Yankees fan you are inherently delusional. Timlin is done.

what about former sox farmhand kelly shoppach as a potential trade target?

wow, the red sox offseason outlook came pretty quickly. how about a day or two for the wounds to heal. i mean, if kevin garnett goes down, the only hope boston fans have left is...gulp...the bruins.

what do you think about the Sox using some of that money to lock up young players like Pedroia, Yuk, Lester, Papelbon, even Bay long term while they have the luxury money before those players cash in during arbitration?

Couldn't wait to get this one out? Huh?

haha

I think with the money the sox have, and the division they play in, standing pat won't suffice.

Signing Tex and moving one of Lowell/Lugo to a super sub role (while trading the other) seems feasible.

04Forever: What if Lowell retires? Then what do you do? I mean Lee is actually on the market trying to get rid of $$.

I'll try to make this as realistic as possible:

C: Varitek
C: Cash
1B: Youk
2B: Pedroia
3B: Lowell
SS: Lowrie
IF: Lugo
1B/OF: Jeff Bailey
LF: Bay
CF: Ellsbury
RF: Drew
OF: Crisp
DH: Ortiz

SP: Sabathia
SP: Beckett
SP: Lester
SP: Dice-K
SP: Wakefield
SP: Byrd (Bowden starts in minors)

RP: Papelon
RP: Okajima
RP: Delcarmen
RP: Masterson
RP: Lopez
RP: Aardsma

Just throwing this out there. Does Papi have any trade value?

I am not convinced that he bounces back and moving him would give the Sox tremendous flexibility.

Plus it would allow Boston to get in the Mark Texeira sweepstakes or let Lars Anderson get some time up in the show.

Would anyone want him? The obvious limit is AL only. And DH's are fairly easy to come by. Would Boston revolt?

Ortiz has trade value, but he won't be moved. They have made it very clear over the last several years that they want to build that offense around him for as long as he can launch a ball into outer space (or at least the right field seats at Yankee Stadium). Making a move for Tex can be done without moving Ortiz. It would call for moving one of Lowell or Lugo. I'd rather see Lowell on the bench than Lugo though.

Where is this Halladay talk coming from? You really think the Blue Jays would trade him to the Sox? You really must be delusional.

just to think about: If Lowell doesnt come back or gets traded, Cubs trade Lee and Cedeno (or cash) for Coco and PTBNL.

Posted by: cubs land

What a revolting trade proposal

cubsland, please explain why the Cubs should trade their gold glove first baseman who can hit (.823 ops), plus their backup infielder who's cheap and plays steady defense at three positions for Coco Crisp, Bostons overpaid 4th outfielder? Why create a hole at 1b and on the bench for an outfielder who's got one year remaining on his contract and isn't that good to begin with? This would be essentially the same as the Cubs trading Reed Johnson for Kevin Youkillis and Alex Cora. Doesn't make much sense does it?

Are you really a Cubs fan? Why do you think the first reaction of the Boston fans was to make the trade? Bad trade. Silly trade.

With the given room to move on payroll, maybe Furcal would be of interest. That would give them a definite upgrade at shortstop from on offensive perspective. Not sure if I would be comfortable going into the season with Lowrie/Lugo as the everyday shortstop.

that was inappropriate sorry

am i delusional....yes.
it's a hell of a package though.
i just brought it up for fun...because the whole texiera, c.c., salty, burnett talk is already getting old.
gotta think outside the box.

am i missing something...why are there posts of lowell retiring?

i dont think the Sox will give up Lars at all. He has to be deemed close to untouchable. As far as I know he is the only high level POWER prospect the Sox have. If im wrong correct me. I could see a D. Lowe signing. The bullpen came together to 2007 form at the end of this season so like another poster said maybe someone minor to eat up Timlins innings. Masterson in the pen the latter half of this year was huge

"As far as I know he is the only high level POWER prospect the Sox have. If im wrong correct me."

Yes and no. Josh Riddick is considered to have good power potential, the 25-30 hr a year range. But he's 2 years out. So for Anderson, I see two possibilities for him, move to left or trade bait... he's blocked by 3 more years of Lowell and 3 years of a cheap and rapidly improving Youk.

As for the Lowell trade value, I think its a moot point. Lowell still is a great defender and will likely bounce back to be a #6 hitter.

damn spelling.

Red Sox Dynasty-
I am sorry but you are wrong, Lowell does not have much value outside of Fenway. Not to mention not many people will take you seriously with a name like that.
As for the Melky comment, until his regression this year he hit .270 last year and .280 the year before. I must say that is pretty good for a 9 hole hitter.

Wow, I feel like so many people are trying to overhaul this team through these comments.

Lowell isn't going anywhere, he is signed for 2 more years and then will be gone after that, either retire or move on.

Youkilis has 2 more years and will either be re-signed and moved to 3rd because Lars Anderson should be ready by then, or they will find another 3rd baseman.

Lowrie will be the starting SS next year, and I'm ok with that. He is solid defensively, and in a full season could hit 50 doubles at Fenway with a good OBP. Reminds me some of Billy Mueller.

I see Crisp and Lugo being moved, one way or another. Cora is our primary MIF replacement. We can find another 4th OF somewhere.

I see Gerald Laird as a target at catcher, a decent hitting RH hitter, could play up in Fenway.

Ortiz will not be moved. That idea is preposterous. We will not sign Teixeira, I love him as a player but this team will not sign a guy going into his 30s to a 20MM+ a year contract, when we have a cost controlled 1B for 2 more years who plays better defense and is not a huge dropoff offensively.

The Red Sox have one of the deepest lineups in MLB, so they can avoid the reliance on 2 great hitters like they had the last few years.

The one big addition I would like to see them make is A.J. Burnett. Something like 3 years at $18MM per year, with 2 $20MM options with expensive buyouts would be ideal and could fit a pitcher with some injury problems in the past. Best case we get him playing for contracts 3 straight years. I would rather sign him than trade for Peavy.

I agree. I don't think it's really worth more than an initial phone call to gauge the situation. The Red Sox have a very good rotation and a great lineup, there's no need to sell the farm they've built just to add Peavy when there are free agent alternatives.

There's no way the Red Sux acquire Pudge, that'll be stupid. They'll resign Varitek and maybe sign a reliever like Will Ohman or somebody else. I know Varitek cant hit but hes too valuable for young pitchers. I think the Yankees might need a starter. Honestly, I don't think Lester is going to have another year like he had last year. I said the same thing about Beckett and I was right.

Their is no way that Cubs will trade DLee and Cedeno for a crappy ass 4th outfielder. Who would start at 1B for the Cubs? Not Hoffpauir he is 27 year old back up. Nothing else. And Cedeno is a good cheap back up infielder who is pretty good on defense. He reminds me of a Jason Bartlett. Coco Crisp is a ugly box of cereal he would not be a good fit with Cubs. Plus Reed Johnson is a stud with Fukudome probably playing CF next season why trade for Coco?

I would like to sign another pitcher, and to me the market needs to be dictated as to whom we sign. If we can get 2yr 30 mil for ben sheets or 4 yr 60 mil for AJ burnett then that is fine..if not I am ok with a trade, maybe for Bedard and buy low....

I would like to re-sign Kotsay and would love to keep Crisp around until Kalish and Reddick can be ready...so one more season is fine.

Catcher- I am fine with Varitek and may want to see how the guys from the minors, Dusty Brown and Luis Exposito. I don't feel a need to trade anybody yet.

I have to answer to the Halladay to the Red Sox comment. I know absolutely that you are just speculating and not expecting anything, but from on just an even talent for talent swap, I would not do that from the Jays perspective. I know that those prospects are the top of the Sox farm, but this guy was the second best starting pitcher this year in the AL next to Cliff Lee (no offense to Dice-K but look at all the peripheral stats, they clearly favour Halladay). If I were the Jays, that wouldnt be enough. Theyd need one bonafide player that is going to be a major league STAR, and while all of those players are going to be good, they aren't for sure stars yet. Also, whoever said Halladay is injury prone, he broke his leg one year because of a fluke, hes never had arm problems.

"he had another from Houston a couple years ago whose name escapes me"

Wade Miller

ACTUALLY CRASH I LIKE THE TEAM AND THE IDEA...how about a

Holliday and Ianetta
for
Bucholz, Ellsbury, and Masterson.

Allows Colorado to have a closer, since Corpas was up and down this year, also Ellsbury gives them what they missed after Tavares left and Bucholz has the makeup of a #2 starter and very cost controlled.

Holiday could play right and Drew can move to CF.

Varitek signs for 2 years and Ianetta is groomed, with roles reversing after year 2. Ianetta is the starter and then stays in that spot for years to come.

I am in agreement that Bay is in final year of contract and they are waiting for Spillbourghs to take over for Holliday and Dexter Fowles could play other OF position.

LETS JUST AGREE HERE....Either a big time trade or sign a starter that could be a flyer.

One wrist and hip problem away from being in and possibly winning the WS AGAIN.

DO me a favor and tell me what the Tex haul was?

Kotchman and a AA pitcher?

Reigning Cy Young winner caught a top 30 prospect and two pitchers whom ceiling is #4 and Mid Relief and PBTNL...

So lets not be ridiculous and think Matt Holiday is better then either player and need top 3 prospects from the Red Sox Farm System plus more....not thinking well tonight people!

by the way really diverse since Lowell is Carribean, Javy Lopez is as well, Okajima and Dice-K are from that country that is not America.

When Timlin was hurt we brought up Gil Velazquez whom sounds like he is from Atlanta or somewhere down south....yes we are all card-carrying members of a secret cloaked society. Get bent

"Reigning Cy Young winner caught a top 30 prospect and two pitchers whom ceiling is #4 and Mid Relief and PBTNL..."

To each team, a player has one's own value and Justin Masterson's value to Boston this past year was being forcibly converted to relieving.

You may want to actually look and see that he is a *starter* that was turned into a reliever from neccesity, only because the '08 Soix BP was so poorly until he came back and helped anchor it thejonathan..

Lars Anderson is Boston's top prospect and more than likely, going nowhere regardless, Bowden might be, depending on circumstances.

I reiterate every post have made under all previous "Peavy" topics on this forum so far:

Boston **DOES NOT** need Jake Peavy. Paying even the amount I proposed above is too much for him, even if he can succeed in the AL East.

Let the NL teams fight over him (if they have the prospects that is) The Angels have the pitching talent to get a deal also for him, yet nothing going on from them either, why? No overwhelming need due to the strength of the starters they have either.

Makes -0- sense to pay such a steep price when a team already has 3 aces to add 1 more.

The ideal situation would be to bring back Tek on a short term deal - preferably an incentive-laden 1-year deal plus a vesting club option (and perhaps a post-retirement coaching or "personal services" clause). Tek could then mentor a young catcher for a year or two in a reduced role - maybe two or three starts a week.

The problem is Boras. If Boras drives the negotiations, Tek is gone. If Tek takes control, I could see him coming back in the aforementioned scenario.

That would hopefully let us trade for Teagarden or Ramirez. I would imagine that either would come a little cheaper than Laird (experience) or Salty (over-inflated value).

Lowe makes sense as an undervalued alternative to Sabathia/Burnett/Peavy. Not the same caliber of pitcher, but we don't need an ace, and Lowe can handle Boston.

Another bit of speculation that Nat posted in September was a possible swap of bad contracts - Dontrelle for Lugo. Haven't seen it resurface, but it's still interesting. As a Wade Miller/Matt Clement style reclamation project, Willis is worth a shot. Even as a lefty specialist (granted, he would have to throw strikes) or PH, he would provide more than Lugo.

C (Ramirez or Teagarden)/Varitek
1B Youklis
2B Pedroia
3B Lowell
SS Lowrie
LF Bay
CF Crisp/Ellsbury
RF Drew
DH Ortiz

SP Beckett
SP Lester
SP Matsuzaka
SP Lowe
SP Wakefield/Buchholz

Laird/Cash as catching duo if Tek doesn't sign. And I'll refrain from speculating on bench/relief personnel. Somebody has to go to Texas for the catcher, whoever he is. Just hope it's not one of the guys listed above.

Everyone - Teagarden is going nowhere. Sorry.

theJonathon - I think the Tex haul was referring to Feliz, Andrus, Harrison, Beltre, and Salty. Come on now.

The haul for Tex with the Braves was not for his Free Agency year tmoney, so Holliday is not getting that type of haul from any team. One year is one year on any team, and with Boras, NO WAY he is signing a long term deal without Free Agency.

theJonathan - good point.

The Red Sox should float Youkilis as trade bait, his value is high, he's under control until 2011 and he'll be 30 by the time the season starts. The dude that fought with Manny could yield a ridiculous return, the RS sign Tex to fill the gap and could get two cheap players that fill the needs for the future. Theo would be a clown to not at least explore this option, we know he's not a clown so it's possible. For real.

"DO me a favor and tell me what the Tex haul was?

Kotchman and a AA pitcher?"

You do realize that the Rangers landed Saltalamacchia, Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison and Beau Jones for Tex? Thats a top young catcher, arguably the best SS and pitching prospects in baseball currently, a 3/4 starting prospect and a throw in. That's a haul. Holliday should cost almost as much. If the Red Sox really wanted Holliday, and honestly considering that they added Bay I would expect them to be out of the running, it would have to be some crazy offer like: J.D. Drew, Jacoby Ellsbury, Clay Buchholz and Lars Anderson. And if you think the Red Sox are willing to do that, then just see what their fans think..

tmoney- you d be an idiot to trade lester for andrus and salty alone. If u wanted lester, you have to talk holland or feliez and a catch and andrus, also, I see salty as the Texas catcher on the way out they like tegardens glove, rameriez's bat and laird's leadership so salty is odd man out

"The haul for Tex with the Braves was not for his Free Agency year tmoney, so Holliday is not getting that type of haul from any team. One year is one year on any team, and with Boras, NO WAY he is signing a long term deal without Free Agency."

Good point and holds true in all Boras cases with no exceptions that I am aware of regarding his big name clients.

I would prefer to see the Red sox to take a pass on Sabathia also and spend some of that money that is coming off the books on say Byrd, Schilling and Renteria and put it towards attempting to get Jason Bay, Pedroia, Papelbon and Youk to sign for a few years to avoid some arbitration hearings that will be approaching. No chance on Ells with Boras as his agent imagine however.

Still do not see why the Sox really need to go after the top dogs starter wise this year, when they can either attempt to upgrade middle relief over this off season and work on putting masterson back into the rotation, or go with the 4 solid they already currently have and let Bowden/Bucholz, plus the 1 injury project that they seem to always get work on rehabbing and see what they get from them.

The bullpen is the Sox major problem, outside of Papelbon, Okijima, Masterson and occasionally Delcarmen, none were dependable and that includes Javier Lopez whom must be the worst relief pitcher in the league with a 2.50 era when a game counts.

johns,

I agree that the one real priority for the should be the pen, but I don't think it's as big of a problem as most people think. Okajima really needs to be used as a pure set up man. I trust him to get three outs with no one on and keep a lead, but I don't trust him with a runner on. What the Sox really need is a guy who can come in and shutdown a rally... with the way Masterson seems to wiggle out of trouble, I'm hoping he can be that guy. I'd be happy enough if they add a strong lefty arm like Ohman to take Timlin's spot.

The sox should bring back pedro and put him in the pen. He isn't the starter he used to be but he should be able to give some solid innings.

The sox bench also needs some serious help. With the exception of crisp the bench did nothing in the postseason. The sox should spend some serious money to upgrade.

Millar 1B/RF
Felip Lopez IF/OF
Crisp OF
Willie Bloomquist IF/OF
Shoppach C

They would provide speed, power, and defence and hit for decent average for a bench. It would probably cost about 16mil to have them (plus a couple prospects to get shoppach)

red sox dynasty,

If you were a man you would be the more mature one and not retaliate with childish insults in rambling posts that have nothng to do with baseball.

Please never say anything again unless it has something to do with baseball, and I'll do the same.

And for all the Lars Anderson getting traded talk, honesly he's too good a prospect to trade for a guy with one year of team control left. I could see something like Holliday for Buchholz, Kalish and maybe Daniel Bard.

I would like to see the Red Sox pursue Holliday, as well. However, the way their offense (and defense) is currently constituted, the Red Sox probably can't afford to trade Bay to make room for Holliday. They would need to find a spot for both to improve the club, since Holliday away from Coors isn't enough of an upgrade over Bay to justify trading away bluechip prospects.

In short, the Red Sox need middle-of-the-order consistency to compensate for the loss of Manny, and it's certainly not coming from catcher, middle-infield (no slight to Pedroia intended), or 3B. It's not clear what the Red Sox will get from Lowell and/or Ortiz, but a return to 2007 form for both would be wildly optimistic.

Here's the hard part: Holliday has never strayed from LF, and Bay has very limited action in CF (prior to knee trouble). Any scenario involving retaining both Bay and Holliday would almost certainly require dealing away Ellsbury at optimum value, moving Bay to either RF or CF, and using Drew and Crisp as platoon-mates.

That's a lot of variables. I also don't see the Red Sox landing Teixeira when it would essentially require moving Lowell and picking up a good chunk of his salary. Because the Sox would have a difficult time landing Teixeira, I don't see them moving Lars Anderson, arguably their most indispensable position prospect at this point.

Any help for the lineup would have to be someone who can play RF, and would likely involve dealing away one of Ellsbury/Crisp, and relegating the other to supersub status. I, for one, could bear to part with Ellsbury, who has far more value.

"Allows Colorado to have a closer"

So wait, you're considering Masterson as a closer? Seriously?

Man, I love Masterson. Love him to death. He'll make a good fourth starter or a solid long relief man, but a closer? That's an absolute joke. You need a high heat guy for a truly effective closer and Masterson is a finesse pitcher more than anything. He's a guy you bring in who might will give you a double play when you need it, but cannot get lefties out and has trouble keeping it in the yard sometimes. Masterson's got potential as a reliable starter, but he would be a complete abortion as a closer. Think Joe Borowski.

"How about this - Salty/ Andrus for Lester & Lowrie? Just throwing it out there - and don't say that Salty/Andrus isn't worth Lester alone, because thats simply not true."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Seriously? I've seen some lopsided trade proposals, but that is an absolute joke. While you're shopping them around, why not ask for a Garza and Longoria package?

The Sox, overall, should be standing pat. Their team is built ideally for the present AND future with hard playing veterans (Like Lowell), newer guys with incredible upside (Like Lester) and mixtures of the two (Like Youk). I'd recommend the following moves/non-moves:

Keep Masterson in the bullpen. Okajima is still his old self when he's in for a clean inning and then there's Papelbon. Masterson provides a brilliant anchor to kill those middle innings that you'll need covered when guys like Matsuzaka can't top five or six innings. He also works well as a double play aficionado they can bring in when there's men on. With Bowden closing in on his first taste of the show, I'd just as soon keep Masterson in the pen and resolving the missing starter via free agency.

Keep Crisp unless a perfect deal comes along. As a starter, he's been inconsistent, but as a supersub, he's a godsend. He provides incredible defense and phenomenal speed off the bench. He's also got starter makeup and I absolutely LOVED the platoon Tito had going this season. It's the best way to alleviate the grind of the season on the outfielders. If he and a bottlenecked prospect can land us some catching help or a good reliever, trade him, but not for anything else. He may have stunk it up, but his trade value will never be as high as it is right now.

Keep Kotsay. The guy's been good off the bench and he has a lot of versatility. He can act as a fifth outfielder should someone go down long term. He also provides a surprisingly adequate backup at first base for when Youk or Lowell need a day off.

Shed Casey. He's fun and all, and a great bat off the bench, but he's barely a step above Ortiz at first and he doesn't really bring anything other than batting for average to the table. I say let him walk and bring up Anderson for power off the bench, something the Sox were sorely lacking this season.

Try anything you can to get Lugo the Hell out of Boston and take a chance with Lowrie at short. He's proven more than adequate defensively. I don't care if they have to eat the whole contract, Lugo is taking up valuable roster space and would be effectively useless as a backup. If they can eat his contract and get something with even vague potential for him, do it. Wait until Spring Training to do it, though. As it stands, his value is at absolute zero. Might as well give him Spring Training to try and prove he might be able to do SOMEBODY some good.

Try to re-sign Cora. He's an adequate sub and they'll need a backup for shortstop and second in case Lowrie or Pedroia gets hurt.

Pick up Wakefield's rolling option. It'd be idiotic not to unless he decides to retire (Which I haven't heard a single hint toward other than idle speculation from writers). He's no ace, but he's still got enough left in the tank to be a more than serviceable fifth starter for most of the season.

From there, the only additions I would make are a reliever to replace Timlin (If we could snare a solid young one for Crisp, that'd be cool) and two starters. We need a reliable fourth starter option and one of Epstein's beloved low risk, high yield projects (Any joker that we could service for four or five emergency wins like we did with Colon). Byrd could probably serve the fourth starter role, but I'd like to see if we can bargain shop that one.

I would be open to a run at Texeira, at the least to drive up the Yankees' price. I like Lowell enough, but if they could get Texeira at the expense of either supersubbing or trading him, it's kind of a no brainer. Dude is just a monster at the plate.

I say make a "run" at Sabathia to drive up his price, but by all that's holy do not sign the guy. I simply do not trust his weight and his developing pattern of complete ineptitude in the postseason (Plus, I am genuinely hoping the Yankees sign him to some outrageous seven year deal, with his career 8.61 ERA in Yankee Stadium).

I would be more than open to a run at Burnett. The dude's splits just scream "keep me in the AL East." His highest ERA in any AL East park is his current park. He's been average in Baltimore and outright sick in Fenway, Yankee Stadium and the Trop. He's also been, overall, a consistency machine. You pretty much always know what you're going to get out of him. The only hesitation I have is his injury history. I imagine bidding war on this one. He's about the only free agent I would like to see the Sox aggressively pursue.

The only real needs the Sox have that they would have problems filling internally are starting catcher and a middle reliever. Middle relief is a crapshoot and I'd just as soon not see them break the bank on it.

At catcher, I'm for holding onto Varitek for a two year deal and seeing how our younger catching prospects fare. If we continue to see a lack of results, then they could make a hard push at Mauer (They've got the farm system to do it) when the Twins innevitably trade him. I just don't trust trading for a non-proven catcher right now. The odds are that the Sox would end up overpaying for someone that simply didn't pan out in Boston. I'd rather stick with the devil you know for now and hope like Hell they can evolve someone or get the absolute beast that is Mauer in a couple years.

Beyond that, spend whatever's left locking up the young guys. Reportedly Pedroia's already in talks and Youkilis is preferring the year to year arbitration. They need a long term deal for Papelbon and some free money to throw at Lester next year if he proves 2008 was the beginning of a trend.

I think the biggest priority is acquiring a big bat. A real middle of the order hitter. The only question is where does he play? I think the position most in question is 3B. Does Lowell fully recover? Doubtful. Lowell's going to be a year older AND just coming off of hip surgery. He's probably going to fall off to be a #6 or #7 hitter, and will lose a step in the field. As much as I love Mike Lowell, he's not sounding like the hitter we need in the middle of our lineup for 2009. I say trade Lowell and sign Mark Teixeira, shift Youk to 3B and you've just made a solid infield. Or, keep Lowell, center a deal around Bay and some prospects for a big time outfielder like Matt Holliday. And I know there's the argument of why would Colorado want Bay, but he doesn't necessarily need to go to Colorado, Theo's pulled several multiple team trades in the past. Also, if they make a trade for a big bat, they could use the money they have to sign a big time SP like Sabathia or Burnett.

lawlz? Really?