Peavy Rumors: Wednesday

Though if you read the article its a rumor, it just speculation. But thats what other people in baseball think that Peavy is worth.

You can have either have peavy (who is as good as peavy) or hope your prospect hits his ceiling and becomes peavy.

I still don't like that as the return. I think they gave up more in the Tex trade for a season of him. They gave up a highly regarded SS, their #1 prospect at the time (satly), and 3 pitching prospects (although none of them are close to Hansons skill set).

Also I would rather have Gorkys. Much faster and we don't need an immediate impact CF since we have Gerut under control for the next 3 years.

Your crazy as a pads fan if you don't like that return. No way you get more than that, especially considering peavy can go where he wants.

I wouldn't even do that if I was Atl, Hanson will be up next year and be a mainstay in 2010 and beyond.

Oh and I wouldn't say Neftali Feliz doesn't come close to Hanson's skill set, are you joking ???

I actually think Schafer is in some ways the key to this trade. He is an MLBTR 6 tool player, with the 6th tool being his high OBP. His numbers in the minors translate to basically Torii Hunter with more walks.

"I want Peavy I really do. I just dont want to have to give up a guy that could be just as good of a pitcher. I know you have to give talent to get it but I would rather give up more of that outfield talent than pitching potential."

Number one, Tommy Hanson doesn't have the potential to be the type of pitcher that Peavy is. Number two, if you want to add an elite pitcher, you're going to have to give up at least one elite prospect, and with the Braves that leaves you to choose between Heyward and Hanson as your elite centerpiece, and obviously you'd choose to give up Hanson over Heyward.

I think that Hanson, Schafer and I'm assuming either Brent Lillibridge or Diory Hernandez would be a solid deal for the Padres. They get a top of the rotation prospect, which is a commodity that their system sorely lacks. Outside of Mat Latos, there really isn't a projectable top of the rotation pitcher in that system. If they deal Peavy, they simply have to add an impact pitching prospect. And Schafer as the second piece is very solid, as he should be a good CF for a while. I think the Braves would be better off going after Freddie Freeman though, as the Padres' two best OF prospects both player center, in Cedric Hunter and Will Venable. If the Padres could land Hanson, G. Hernandez and Freeman, that would be an awesome haul, although I expect that the Braves would tell them they can only have two of those guys, along with a third lesser player.

-and pitched really well-

Love that we can't correct typos here.

"Love comments like this. Sure the odds are that Hanson doesn't become an elite pitcher, but that's because the odds are against any prospect you choose becoming elite. Hanson has great size, great numbers and pitcher really well as a 21 year old in AA last season. Nothing about him screams #3 starter ceiling."

I just meant that in 2007, Peavy was the best pitcher in the NL. Realistically most scouts say that Hanson projects as a more of a good 2/3 starter rather than an elite ace. I'm just saying that Neftali Feliz is more likely to be the best pitcher in baseball than Tommy Hanson, Hanson still has a shot though.

No way this trade happens. Hanson, Schafer, plus KJ or Escobar ? Not happening. Maybe Hanson and Schafer along with Lillibridge.

I am still holding out hope the deal can be made with Hanson and Gorkys along with Lilibridge and Morton and Reyes and a lower level pitching prospect.

As a Braves fan I am willing to give up a little more to keep Schafer over Gorkys. Simply because he can help us this season. It would not hurt the Padres to get Gorkys who wont be ready for another year when they are further along in the rebuilding process.

"would be better off going after Freddie Freeman though, as the Padres' two best OF prospects both player center, in Cedric Hunter and Will Venable"

The Padres top position prospect is probably going to be Kyle Blanks after this season, he plays 1B. Combine that with Adrian Gonzales and this years first round draft pick Dykstra, they do not need a first basemen. Also it is up in the air as to whether or not Cedric Hunter will be able to stick in CF and Venable is a borderline starter, more of a 4th outfielder.

From what I've read Tommy Hanson is one of the best pitching prospects people don't know.

If this deal is Escobar + Hanson + Schafer you have to love it as a Pads fan. Subbing KJ for Escobar still makes it decent.

"His PECOTA comps are full of polar opposites; either high K guys who blew out early (M. Perez, Leonard, Rijo, Erskine, Appier, Sheets) or HoFs who lasted forever (Sutton, Seaver, Smoltz)."

Erskine wasn't a particularly high K, not to mention the fact that he played in an era where orthopedic surgeons were little more than butchers with scalpels. Also, Appier a blow out? Have you looked at his stats? If that guy had played somewhere other than KC, he would probably have 250 wins. A highly effective 16 year career is hardly a "blowout".

"So you were about right on there w/ Hanson, Schafer, and Lillibridge or DHernandez"

???

No he was not right, nowhere in that article does it say "the middle infielder will not be KJ or Escobar because someone on mlbtraderumors feels that's a little too much to give up for Jake Peavy."

Unless I missed that part

"Tommy Hanson and outfielder Jordan Schafer, who both peaked at Double-A last year, plus a middle infielder, either shortstop Yunel Escobar or second baseman Kelly Johnson."

That is what the article states, if Hanson projects as a number 2/3 starter and with Schafer losing value with the HGH issues, may be reasonable.

I think people feel that because the Braves HAVE the prospects to get it done and NEED Peavy a deal is going to come to fruition.

Hanson Scafer and Lillibridge is an unimpressive offer in my opinion. You sub a proven, ML ready infielder like KJ or Esobar and it looks like an offer that would be difficult to top.

Realize that other teams want Peavy and other teams have prospects. I doubt he goes for a Santana like package, because the Pads don't have to move him.

I can see Hanson and Schafer as we have Gorkys and Cole still behind those guys who may even project to be better, but to also give them KJ...that seems like a lot...

I'd still do it if I knew we could also sign a Burnett or something close to him and get a good power guy for LF....that is still asking a lot though for uncertainty...

But these lineups would be ok w/ me:

1) Anderson cf
2) Prado 2b
3) Jones 3b
4) Bradley/Dye/Ordonez/Dunn lf
5) McCann c
6) Escobar ss
7) Kotchman 1b
8) Francoeur rf

If Frenchy ever gets back what he had he will undoubtedly move up the lineup, but if he does he will also instantly give us another bat and our lineup will be outstanding...

Not bad even if we don't get one of those four OF's available.

Who does everyone think we'll end up w/ in LF?

Oh...and sweet...this directly from Bobby Cox's mouth...

It'll be KJ going before Escobar.

Yunel Escobar has been mentioned as a possible piece in this trade, but Braves manager Bobby Cox raves about Escobar. If you’re Atlanta and you give up Hanson, you’re telling the Padres, ‘You can’t have Hanson and Escobar both.

Im not quite sure who you see giving up more than Hanson and Schafer ? You either significantly under value Hanson and Schafer or you know something every one else doesn't?

Does anyone think Peavy will go for anything less than what Haren was traded for?

The fact Peavy is better might be off set by Haren's extremely team friendly financial status.

That deal seems like a reasonable comparable.

Hanson/Scafer/lilibridge is nowhere close

Unless you're a braves fan of course, probably the same people laughing at Yanks/Sox during the Santana sweepstakes.

"Im not quite sure who you see giving up more than Hanson and Schafer ? You either significantly under value Hanson and Schafer or you know something every one else doesn't?'

Because anytime fans start saying "I'd be ok with giving up this guy or that guy" it means they KNOW they're getting the better end of the deal. My opinion is simply that the Pads don't have to trade Peavy, and in reality aren't that limited by his NTC, so why would they dump him for whatever package ATL would be willing to part with?

Well as a Braves fan I just think god Meoveryouk is not our general manager.

"Erskine wasn't a particularly high K, not to mention the fact that he played in an era where orthopedic surgeons were little more than butchers with scalpels. Also, Appier a blow out? Have you looked at his stats? If that guy had played somewhere other than KC, he would probably have 250 wins. A highly effective 16 year career is hardly a "blowout"."

1. In the only 3 seasons Erskine went above 200 IPs, his K/9+ was 133, 162, 138. The raw numbers are low relative to today, but versus the rest of the NL in that period, he was a high K pitcher.

2. You're right on Appier. I was thinking he was done after KC (age 29) but he actually had some solid years after he left.

"Well as a Braves fan I just think god Meoveryouk is not our general manager."

I'm just reasonable.

You're having trouble seeing through your homerism, which is ok since we all do it, but true nonetheless.

Pitcher A is 22 years old, 6'6 210. This season in the minors he was 11-5 with a 2.41 ERA, 163 ks and 52 walks in 138 innings. The league his .175 against him.

Pitcher B is 22 years old, 6'6 225. This season in the minors he was 12-1 with a 2.30 ERA, 109 ks and 32 walks in 109 innings. The league hit .228 against him.

Pitcher A is Tommy Hanson. Pitcher B is David Price.

The thing about this whole Peavy trade speculation is that every other team (not named the Padres) could view this move as a salary dump more than anything else. So no team is going to be forced into trading pieces they don't want to trade.

And who the hell is this "mebehindyouok" kid? Please enlighten as to which "other team' could top a deal that consists of Hanson and Hernandez as the centerpieces.

Mebehindyouok? Is that honestly the best you could come up with? You would think after not making the playoffs for a few years some of that ATL arrogance would subside, I guess not.

How is this a salary dump? The Padres absolutely one hundred percent do not have to trade Peavy. To imply that they are the ones whose hand might be forced is idiotic. And furthermore, when trading for Peavy you're going to have surrender pieces you don't want to trade

I don't know every team involved in the Peavy sweepstakes or what they could offer, but I can look at comparable deals for comparable pitchers and at least set a precedent. Peavy is going to be worth more than what Santana got and probably at least what Haren got. Based off that, Hanson/Hernandez doesn't come close.

meoveryouok true the pads dont HAVE to move peavy.... but they REALLY want to and guess what it is a bit of a salary dump. when a team trades a proven mlb player making millions of dollars for cheap prospects to try to help rebuild the team that is a salary dump.and u say a deal based around hanson and hernandez doesnt come close??? well then ur dumb. hanson is jus a beast. As earlier shown his numbers were as good as david prices this year and hey i bet the rays would trade him straight up for peavy. and hernandez made the starting futures game this year and has a huge ceiling..... soooooo ur wrong =]

In order to get the maximum return, yes they have to trade Peavy now.

David Price still has little to no track record in the majors, you can't automatically assume that he is going to be a number 1. The probability is high, but you can also say he is similar in a lot of ways to Andrew Miller who was the top talent in his draft class and he has not been a success to date.

I agree Price may not be a number one. My point is Hanson has similar size and numbers, and is a year younger than Price. I am not saying he is better than Price but his performance suggests he may be as good. The real issue is how highly thought of Price is and how little respect Hanson gets.

"The real issue is how highly thought of Price is and how little respect Hanson gets."

Maybe it's because he was drafted number 1 overall and rocketed through the minors, eventually saving game 7 of the ALCS?

That could be it, or it could be that he is undoubtedly a better prospect than Hanson.

Now listen clearly, THAT DOES NOT MAKE HANSON A BAD PITCHING PROSPECT. PRICE IS JUST BETTER. (in the eyes of most people)

Price is a full year older than Hanson. By the time Hanson is 23 odds are he will have significantly more ML experience than Price. The only question is if it will be with the Braves or the Padres.

"Price is a full year older than Hanson. By the time Hanson is 23 odds are he will have significantly more ML experience than Price. The only question is if it will be with the Braves or the Padres."

No once again you're wrong, odds are he doesn't pan out. Most prospects don't, even top notch, number 1 potential, ace pitchers. Odds are Jake Peavy will outperform Hanson now and later.

Also, if Price is already in the majors. How could hanson have more ML innings a year later if he is currently pitching in the minors? Price will pitch in the bigs next year, Hanson might. It's physically impossible for him to log significantly more ML experience in a year.

Hanson will be a part of some ones rotation at some point next year. I mean when Hanson is 23 years old he will have more experience than Price does now... as a 23 year old.

One thing to not is that minor league stat comparisons are not the sole basis of projection. I can give you a the following numbers of a 19yr old in A ball:
10-2 1.71era 110.2ip 134ks 24bbs

The pitcher is Will Inman who know one is arguing is going to turn into a number 1. Based on the numbers it is hard to see how one would justify that argument, but the reality his stuff does not project as well as other pitchers.

This is the same reason a lefty with 3 pitches throwing 95-96 (Price) projects better than Hanson.

Hanson pitched 8.1 innings in AFL and struck out 14 and gave up 3 walks and 1 HIT....how can you say this guy is not gonna be future star in mlb?

John (San Fran): Lighting round: Cain or Peavy? Who would net more in a trade?

SportsNation Jim Callis: (2:49 PM ET ) I'd rather have Cain.

Uhhh, told you so?

"

The Braves really don't have much competition for Peavy right now.

Cards - not too interested
Astros - no starter to build deal around
Cubs - no starter to build deal around
Dodgers - they aren't giving up Kershaw or Billingsley, so then who?

To me it is either Braves or stays in SD for now.
"

Tim,

The Dodgers are also not going to be moving Broxton either now which the Padres may have wanted may I add.

This is what I meant when posted this on an earlier message regarding Peavy that Towers needs to bring AL teams and convince Peavy to at least LOOK to go to the AL for at least show so that he can get more out of the Braves will give up more for his services.

he know he can possibly get say a Bucholz, Bowden, even an Ellsbury perhaps out of Boston in some kind of deal if Epstein really wanted Peavy.

If the Angels wanted Peavy,there is Santana, Saunders and Kendrick at the ML level where he could get 1 of and play at a Sean Rodriquez perhaps.

meoveryouok maybe actually read the post. it said hanson is a year younger so by the time he is prices age he will have more ml experience than price. and by the way ur name is meoveryouok ...... enough said....

From a Jim Callis chat on ESPN:

Rex (ATL): JIM- can you give a quick assessment of Tommy Hanson, and would you trade a package of him, Jordan Shaffer, and Kelly Johnson for Jake Peavy?

Jim Callis: (2:11 PM ET ) Hanson is one of the better pitching prospects in the minors, with a live fastball and four pitches that each grade as plus at times. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again—I don’t think the Braves should ship a package of young players to San Diego for Peavy. They got burned on the Teixeira trade and they’re not one pitcher away from being a legit contender. I think they’d regret this deal if they made it.

nice comparison between him and price except for the fact that hanson was in his fifth year in the minors in only AA while price is in his first year and rose all the way to 4 starts in AAA and 5 starts in the bigs. the more fair comparison would be what he did through AA

I think as fans, we tend to get too hung up on the potential of prospects when making trades. There is no doubt that Hanson and Schafer both have extremely high ceilings, but the likelihood that even one of them has as successful a career as Peavy is slim. It has been said here before, to get a talent like Peavy, you have to give up talent. I don't think you can dismiss this deal as not going to happen. There have been published reports saying that if Escobar were in the mix the Braves would ask for Greene back. There has also been published speculation that Escobar's potential attitude problems are wearing on the Braves. None of this means a deal is imminent, but to dismiss it outright is short sighted.

lets say esco is traded, would u guys rather have greene in there, lilli, or go after a guy like renteria??? its hard for me to choose between lilli and rent, i guess if we thought we had a real chance at winning next yr ud have to go with rent im jus dreading the possibility of greene as the opening day ss next year =/

Out of that trio, you would have to go with Renteria for the most immediate chance at winning, those his skills appear to be on the decline.

i jus read a bill shanks article on scout.com that says if esco is involved in the trade that greene WILL be headed to atlanta.

he also states that with them taking on greens salary it should be enough for them to avoid adding hanson to the trade. he believes it will take a deal of esco,shaefer/hernandez, and a jojo reyes type pitcher with maybe another name to fill in the trade...

First, I don't see how anyone could expect Hanson to pitch up to the level of Peavy in his 1st year...

I'm a Braves fan and I don't even see that happening...

Along w/ that, whoever said Kelly Johnson is clutch has lost credibility points there...Kelly was much like Tex was with us...always getting hits when the game is out of reach or at the beginning of games...clutch KJ is not!

Escobar on the other hand hits his best when in high leverage situations, or as is said, when the game is on the line...

We have Prado behind KJ...Lilli behind Esco...'nuff said...

Sending KJ over Esco is a no brainer even though I think Kelly is and would be great at PETCO.

Along w/ that, Bobby has endorsed sending KJ over Esco so I see that as being a HUGE deal to our front office because EVERYONE listens to Bobby.

I don't like the haul they'd be getting for Peavy, the least of which Schafer right now BUT lets get it done in about a week so we can then focus on Burnett or another #2 and then our LF power bat.

Oh...and just say no to Khalil Greene!

Escobar Schafer/Gorkys and Reyes or Morton is more than fair. I would probably prefer to keep them and let Peavy stay in San Diego.

Braves22 I saw your comment way up there^ but I agree completely on your offering of Rohrbough, Hernandez, Jones, Medlen, Reyes/Morton. I might be willign to reluctantly part with someone like Flowers but even then I'm not too sure. This deal just seems like its gonna back fire just liek the Tex deal. I agree if they dont agree to a trade not involving Kelly, Escobar, Hanson, Schafer or Heyward, FORGET IT

Im sorry isnt rediculous