Olney's Latest: Cano, Burnett, Furcal, Giambi

yanks technically shouldnt even get kemp, kemp has been more consistent for his position, robinson looks like he is having a career coin toss

"the Yankees would ask for Chad Billingsley or Clayton Kershaw"

hahahaha. yeah.....

Ace potential pitchers for an above average bat... Well, looks like this isn't going to get done.

Yanks requests question the absurdity of the "Reach out and touch someone" song. If you really want to call the Dodgers to say "Hi", please find more sensible subject matter. Wow.

Really Yankees, why put an OR in there, when you really just might as well ask for Kershaw and Billingsley in one package. I'd say that's about as likely to get done, so you have nothing to lose!

above average bat... uh huh. well they wont get kershaw or billingsley and good luck with kemp. the orioles would have trouble getting kershaw for roberts i cant see the yanks pulling that down for cano. and if cano is so good why do the yanks feel they should move him? they certainly are not rebuilding.

Alot of Yankee fans... like me,
dont want to see Cano get traded. We aren't getting any younger and CAno has been a bright spot. Kemp is ok but Cano can't go!!

Why don't the Yankees just take all three of Billingsley, Kershaw, and Kemp for Cano...

Wow, Buster Olney must really believe Ned Colletti is brain dead?

Robinson Cano, don't you know is one of the worst defensive second baseman in baseball...

Cano was a mediocre offensive second baseman last year and has nothing but question marks surrounding him...

I would put the lynch party together myself if Colletti makes yet another horrendous mistake!

The A's made an offer to Furcal?????

Did I miss something?

Cano for Kemp would be a good deal. Kemp is buried in LA's OF, but he's got the talent. LA needs something that at least resembles a solid middle infield.

"Cano for Kemp would be a good deal. Kemp is buried in LA's OF, but he's got the talent. LA needs something that at least resembles a solid middle infield."

Kemp is buried in LA's OF? What? Huh? Matt Kemp had 606 ABs last season, which I believe led the team. How is that "buried"?

Yanks could probably get Andruw Jones and Blake Dewitt for Cano. kemp, billingsley and kershaw is not even worth printing...

"Kemp is buried in LA's OF? What? Huh? Matt Kemp had 606 ABs last season, which I believe led the team. How is that "buried"?"

I'm just saying that the FO screwed the pooch by signing a has been (Jones) and a guy with a tee-ball arm (Pierre) and will never cut bait on either. They can't keep carrying Kemp, Ethier, Jones, Pierre, Young and go after Manny.

Lol at the Yankees.
Cano isn't worth Kershaw or Bills AT ALL, or Matt Kemp. What a ridiculous rumor. Even though Ned is a moron, he's not that stupid.

Also Kemp isn't buried in LA's outfield. We are just stuck with Jones and Pierre unfortunately. Torre finally came to his senses in the later part of the season and played Ethier and Kemp everyday. Both should have been playing everyday since the beginning of the season, but thats a whole other story.

I want Burnett in a Braves uni by the Meetings...Wren listen up!

The Dodgers CAN and WILL continue to let Jones and Pierre rot on the bench. They did it for 2 months last season. They'll do it again this year. There is no way Torre can sit either Kemp or Ethier. Unless the Dodgers find a team willing to not only take Pierre or Jones but ALSO pay their full salaries, you'll continue to see both of those players on the bench.
But I'm sure you'll see them a lot during Spring Training...

That is all strategy to start with a high asking price. What do you expect Cashman to ask for, A. Jones? True he will never get any of those pitchers for a Cano. But once they ask for what they really want, the Dodgers might find it as a good deal an accepts. Boras does the same thing with his contracts.

Cano is not a questionable player and is slightly above average defensively. Add to that his reasonable contract and the fact that he plays 2B and you have one of the top 2B in MLB signed to a good deal.

Cano and Hughes for kemp and a minor leaguer....and many people say that Yankee fans overvalue their own players!

I am not saying a deal will or will not happen, just that Cano for Kemp is not as outrageous as people are posting.

**NL WHack West**

sorry typing too fast

"Cano and Hughes for kemp and a minor leaguer....and many people say that Yankee fans overvalue their own players!"

You're right, compared to Cano and Hughes, kemp doesn't even deserve to have his name capitalized. Maybe it has to do with the fact that Cano and Hughes play in the AL Beast whereas kemp only plays in the AL/NL Whack West

YanksFan, I'm sure you're right that was the progression of things, but the fact is we've been hearing these exact same "trade proposals" re Cano to the Dodgers and they're tiresome, and if Cashman is asking for that in return then I don't blame the Dodgers for balking, is my point.

I don't dislike Cano, I just think he's overvalued and has many, many red flags about him, his numbers have basically crashed and there are too many things that concern scouts about his play. If Kemp is overvalued, than Cano is that times 10. Kemp is a five tool player and potential all star, ask any scout in baseball. Yes, he could also ultimately disappoint, who knows, but with Kemp and with Billingsley we're talking about two of the top players 25 and under at their positions.

So if the Dodgers are asking about Cano, fine, they need more infield depth, but the Yankees need to get real in what they're offering, even if he isn't a FA for several more years. That's all.

ANd just for the record. It truly amazes me how a 26 year old player has 4 years under his belt, has one very mediocre year and people are saying he's just ok, washed up or just an avg player..Haha. Not to sound like a homer but you guys are certainly "what have you done for me lately" kind of sports fan.

Please keep in mind that in 06 Cano finished .006 points away from leading the majors in batavg (.347 vs .342) and in 07 finshed 1 hr (had 19) 3 rbis (97) from being the only other 2B in baseball with 20 hrs and 100 rbis (Chase had 23 to Cano's 19 and 103 rbis to Cano's 97). I'M NOT COMPARING THE TWO but jeeze are you guys really saying that Cano is a "medoicre" player?

According to Dewan's +/- system Cano was the worst 2B in baseball last season. Maybe he has improved defensively, but there are certainly numbers that say otherwise. He is also certainly isn't signed to one a good contract. He's guaranteed 29 million over the next 3 years, with team options that bring it to 54 million over 5 years.

Cano is definitely a good player, but he falls into a pretty large group of guys who are borderline top 10 at the position. Compare him to Kelly Johnson, who is projected to have better offensive numbers next season, and then realize KJ's only going to be earning maybe 15 million over the next 3 years. As a Braves fan I certainly don't think KJ is enough to land Kemp.

"Don't forget Cano is in The AL Beast, while Kemp is hitting pitchers of the NL Whack West"

Yeah, it's horrible out here in the NL West. It's only provided the Cy Young winner 8 out of the last 10 years. Maybe the offenses are so bad because the pitching is so good...

Cano vs. Tim Lincecum, Cain, Jake Peavy, Billingsley, Kershaw, Dan Haren and Brandon Webb. Yeah, I'm sure he'd fare soooo much better than he would in the AL "Beast." Look, no one disputes the overall talent level in that division, and yes there is some super pitching. Why does it have to be an either/or thing? Again, ask any scout, the NL West has some of the best young pitching in baseball.

Cano might very well deserve another chance, and honestly I wish him well. And if he becomes a Dodger, I wish him even more... well. ;-) He needs to show more patience at the plate, a lot more, and it's also widely known that one of his biggest problems is his lack of drive, which is another red flag. Again, he can come back and be a great one, he's not washed up, but there are concerns.

Yanks78,

They really don't see our point. They say we overvalue but look at these dodgers fans. IT crazy how in just one year ppl can go to Cano is a rising star to Cano is avg. If you guys remember in 06, Cano Led All 2B in all star voting but couldn't play due to injury. So think b4 u guys start saying things that are irrelevant.

so you agree cano's value is down right now, so its absurd to think he'd be traded for younger, cheaper high end talent.

he led all 2b in all star voting is the worst argument I have ever read in defense of a baseball player in the history of the internet!

Hahaha...lack of drive? There were 2 instances where he "didn't hustle" on a play. You guys are using those to instances to put a stamp on a players 4 years of play. Wow.

I can't even have an intelligent conversation about this topic. A writer can make a claim that Eva Longoria is a "club house cancer" and that would probably stick as well. Torre never had a problem with Cano and never, before 08, have I ever heard a claim that he was lazy. I'm not defending him at all. Any player making what they make should hustle 100% of the time but please let's not go labeling people so liberally. People use to say Roberto CLemente was lazy as well and that wasn't true either.

And no, I'm not comparing Cano to ROberto Clemente.

Yanks78,

Again they dont get the point.
Yanks arent shopping him. its like saying you were trading for baseball cards. If i have a Griffey rookie card and im not trading it. but you are interested in it, and you are asking me what it will take to get it, im not going to say give me an Enrique wilson card, im going to ask for Ur Albert Pujols, A-rod, or Manny card. ITs that simple

And people keep in mind. In every single rumor dealing with Cano it was the OTHER TEAM asking for him. The DOdgers asked for him. The Twins wanted him in the Santana deal. The Yanks are not shopping him. Will they listen to offers? Sure..every team would listen to what another team is willing to trade. But if a) we're not shopping him b) his value is low due to an "off" 08, then why would we trade him for less than a young star CF or SP when we have no viable , young replacement in our system right now.

That's like someone asking for Russell Martin and the Dodgers trading him for less than a young MLB star player in return.

Using the baseball card analogy, asking for Billingsley or Kershaw for Cano is like asking for a Mickey Mantle rookie card in return for a Mike Mussina rookie card. Sure, both cards are valuable, but one is obviously so much more valuable than the other that the party with the Mantle card might just not want to deal with you again. For those of you who think it doesn't hurt to shoot for the moon in a deal because there's no downside, I suggest reading John Schuerholz's book at some point. He mentions how he was reluctant to ever do deals with those guys because it generally wasn't worth the hassle.

Just because the Dodgers asked for Cano doesn't make Cano good. I think it's a well known fact that Colletti sucks. He has yet to bring in a player that has worked out (Manny doesn't count because he fell into our lap). The only reason the Dodgers have survived is because Logan White has nixed trades of the best players. We have traded away players who haven't amounted to anything, but we haven't received value in return. I don't even want to talk about our free agent signings.
So saying that Cano is awesome because the Dodgers want him tells me absolutely nothing. Once you start referencing a GM that can identify talent that wants Cano THEN I'll let you tell me how great he is. But if he puts up another season with a .305 OBP, you can throw out talks of him even being average.

im not saying leading the all star balloting to defend a player, im just saying it because it does mean you are doing smoething well because we all know that All star balloting is really based on popularity and in 06 i doubt Cano was actually popular and he led.

I dont think this trade will happen anyway so im done commenting on it. Im hungry

nix37 wrote:

Cano is already essentially getting paid what Hudson wants salary wise (10-11 million per), unless you're under the impression Hudson will be seeking 20 million a year.

Honestly, I don't think the Yanks starting out by asking for Kemp is absurd. On the other hand, asking for Billingsley or Kershaw is clearly just asinine.
________________

That's my point!!!!! If the Yanks are going to trade someone they covet (Cano) then either the other team will overpay or their's no discussion for a deal. I just can't understand why you non-yankee fans fail to understand that.

If the Giants called and asked for Kemp what would you ask for in return? Lincecoum or Cain? Why would you ask for anything less? You may not realistically expect them to say yes but why would you settle for equal or better star value in return. It's not like you're the Twins who are rumored to be shopping Delmon Young. They WANT to move Young. The Dodgers NOR the Yanks are TRYING to move either Kemp or Cano.

Craig Phillips can you back up with some details the so many red flasg that Cano has?

Note, that "he's a subpar (46% career SB percentage)" was supposed to be "he's a subpar baserunner (46% career SB percentage)"

"while everyone else who must all be dodger fans feel Kemp would be a bit much for all of cano's question marks."

Not quite. I'm a Red Sox fan, so clearly I think Cano's not worth Kemp or Ethier because my Red Sox bias means I think all Yankees players are trash.

Kemp is better than Cano... Not!!

Seriously get your head out ur a**es!!
Bashing Cano because he had one bad year and that 1 bad year can actually be compared to Cano's season. Average wise no but production was about the same. You say Cano isnt good but then again its actually the Dodgers trying to get Cano and not the other way around. When Kemp fights for a batting title and produce the way Cano did his 1st 2 years then we can speak. But saying Cano stinks when in fact he is better than Kemp and the Dodgers asking for him is stupid. Don't forget Cano is in The AL Beast, while Kemp is hitting pitchers of the AL Whack West

Posted by: mRyAnkEe1231 | December 05, 2008 at 11:49 AM

My head hurts from how stupid you are.

First off, genius, Kemp plays in the NL west, with some of the best pitchers in baseball (Webb, Haren, Lincecum, Cain, Peavy, Chris Young). Second off, Kemp is improving while Cano has only shown decline.

Im not saying Cano wont ever be a good hitter again, but I doubt he ever comes close to the .342 hitter he was in 06 I believe it was.

Do you remember a guy by the name of Nomar Garciaparra? The guy who finished 2nd in mvp voting in 98 and hit .323, the .357, then .372? Oh, btw, have I mentioned he never hit over .310 again?

Im just saying, what someone has once done can mean nothing to what they will do.

Kemp has much more value than Cano at the moment, I dont care how well Cano is hitting in Fall or Winter Ball.

yankeesfan78

How was Cano's season in 08 average? Please tell me. He played the worst defense in the American league at 2nd base, andd he had an 86 OPS+.

That is terrible. Blake Dewitt was almost exactly as valuable on offense and much more valuable on defense.

CMM,

You do realize that we already finished the 2008 season right? I doubt other teams factor in what the Yanks paid Cano this year when determining the AAV of his deal.

If you did some math you'd see that Cano is guaranteed 6 MM in 09, 9 MM in 10, 10 MM in 11, along with the 2 MM buyouts for 12 and 13. That works out to 29 million for 3 years, just short of 10 million a year.

If you want to go for the full value its still 25 million for 09-11 and then an additional 29 million for 12-13. That's 54 million over 5 years, or just short of 11 million a year.

Thanks Bruin :-) for saving me the trouble.

But here's a Yankee blog on him, too:
http://riveraveblues.com/2008/09/where-did-you-go-robinson-cano-4315/

Also, I remembered Baseball America's Jim Callis has commented on Cano several times, including in this recent chat exchange on ESPN:

"It's funny, getting this question after getting asked for years why BA didn't "respect" Cano enough. I don't know if Cano ever was going to be great. More like very good, and he still can. He's going to have to work harder, and I never bought that he'd stay at second base in the long term. I still think he's going to be a LF down the road. "

to the guy that said only dodger fans think kemp is better than cano... uh... no.
i'm an orioles fan and think kemp is far better than cano. kemp kinda reminds me of a young dave winfield. i dont have boat loads of stats to prove that. just saw a young dave winfield play and a young matt kemp play.
as for cano... how many times the yanks and o's play last year? 19? not one game was he impressive in the field and he has seriously declined as a hitter....

Wow....you people are insane. I don't know if it's possible to get a fair shake around here. Torre never had a problem with Cano and he managed him for 3/4 years he's been in the majors. The Yanks are not shopping Cano. The very definition of shopping means that they are calling around the majors looking to trade him. So far I've heard 2 teams linked to Cano and they were the Dodgers and the Twins. Both of those teams approached the Yanks about Cano and were told "NO". Writers can SPECULATE all they want but I don't think the Yanks would be sending their hitting coach down to the DR to work with him if they were planning on moving him this year. And for anyone to say that he is a mediocre player is silly. A lifetime .303 avg and one of a handfull of 2B with power and batting avg ability. At his worst he's an avg defender but of course most of you are "geeks" who know numbers but never , ever consider the "big picture". For all 4 years of his career Cano has been stuck between (sad to say) an aging SS w/ limited range and a 1B wearing oven mits (see Giambi, Duncan, Bettemit, Sexon, Phillips, Cairo, C. Wilson, etc). The only decent glove they've had was Doug Menkwitz. So to looking at stats (RF, Fielding %, +/-, PRM) w/o putting them in proper context is reckless at best. Put a better SS and 1B around him and he wouldn't have to play out in short RF half the time trying to cover as much ground as possible. But if you look at his Field %, which shows HOW HE HANDLES THE BALLS HE GETS TO, that tells you another story. Furthermore, to dismiss 3 seasons and focus in on 1 is absurd. No one knows how well or how poorly he will bounce back next year. What I can say is that all reports show that he's working his butt of to try and turn things around. He's also apologized for the brief moments of lack of focus or attention and is trying to rid himself of the "stigma" attached to him by the NY media.

Offensively, OBP is his one glaring weakness. Someone also mentioned his poor SB %...really? Seeing as how you can't teach speed I won't call that an offensive weakness. He has at minimum mlb avg base running capabilities. He can go from 1b to 3b on single. He's no Giambi where it's base to base. How many 2B are capable of hitting .300 and 15 hrs and 75 rbis consistantly (Pedroia, Kinsler, Utley, Phillips, Roberts...maybe Ramirez and Lopez)? That's 7 guys. To say Cano, even with a "off" 08, isn't a top 10 2B in the majors is a joke.

People wonder why Dodger fans get bent out of shape by these rumors. If they had this many good young players who still have not reached their ceilings, they would get bent out of shape too.

Btw, it really seems like Cano has nowhere to go but down (from this almight 06 season you Yankee fans love to bring up), and Kemp has nowhere to go but up. All the while, like someone already pointed out, the two have a very similar career line.

In 2007, as a 24 year old he had the 4th highest OPS for MLB 2B and is 2006, as a 23 year old he had the 3rd highest OPS for MLB 2B.

His powere is not aided by the short LF porch and his "bad attitude" is a myth.

His defense is above average.

Could he walk more? Sure.

Is his SB% low? Sure.

Is he a bad baserunner? No. This is different than SB%.

Signed to a good deal with power at a weak offensive position. I am not saying kemp isn;t good, too, just that you guys are pretty far off on your bashing of Cano.

In 2007, as a 24 year old he had the 4th highest OPS for MLB 2B and is 2006, as a 23 year old he had the 3rd highest OPS for MLB 2B.

His powere is not aided by the short LF porch and his "bad attitude" is a myth.

His defense is above average.

Could he walk more? Sure.

Is his SB% low? Sure.

Is he a bad baserunner? No. This is different than SB%.

Signed to a good deal with power at a weak offensive position. I am not saying kemp isn;t good, too, just that you guys are pretty far off on your bashing of Cano.

Posted by: CMM | December 05, 2008 at 01:09 PM

Someone just said that Cano had the worst +/- of all 2b in the American League. How is that above average defense?

A little defensive, arent we yanks fan?

I guess that happens when you fight a losing battle.

"But if you look at his Field %, which shows HOW HE HANDLES THE BALLS HE GETS TO, that tells you another story."

No, it doesn't. As I pointed out, he has never in his career managed league average or better at fielding percentage.

He is a below average defender by pretty much every viable defensive metric.

i believe the section in question is...

If the Yankees were to trade Cano to L.A., they almost certainly would insist upon an elite pitcher like Clayton Kershaw or Chad Billingsley in return, and in failing to get that, they'd lock in on outfielder Matt Kemp.