Mets Considering Trading For A First Baseman

If the Marlins fall out of it (which they are rapidly doing), I wouldn't mind them raiding the Mets farm system again and letting go of Cantu. The question is, do the Mets even have any good prospects to offer?

Yeah the marlins "raided" the mets farm system in the past...Mets really gave up the farm for Delgado who has been a stud for them and LoDuca who had a good 2006 season. So the mets traded Matt "Blown Save" Lindstrom for nothing. If the Marlins had any brains they would keep Cantu and try to get rid of Ugly...How about Todd Helton? He makes a lot of money and I can see the Rockies trying to get rid of that contract, and he could be had for little

Nick Johnson is too much of an injury risk. The Mets need someone that is going to be solid, durable and productive down the stretch this year.

Huff to me is their best option and the Orioles would likely give him up for a reasonable offer. But saying the Mets could get him for next to nothing is a bit strong because we are talking about a building team and we are talking about one of the more consistent contact/power guys in the American league right now.

Richie Sexson is a gamble because either they sign him and the time off and life experience of not having a job and a team this season has re-lit the fires that once made him an all star or, he will come in and just strike out and pop up like he did all year last year. Vidro shouldnt be considered for anything more than a utility bench role with any team so he's not even worth discussing.

Cantu isnt going to happen. I have no doubt that the marlins would love to trade him but the Mets wont give up a package of young players for him and the marlins wont trade him to a division rival when they could likely do just as good or better with an American league team or a non division rival.

I dont think the Mets have the young stars capable of getting a deal done for Gonzalez but what about making calls on guys like Adam Laroche and Ryan Garko?

Huff for f-mart and niese??
Tacking Huff's contract would be worth it.

Posted by: joemorgan=#1 | May 16, 2009 at 12:57 PM

Mets wouldn't trade F-Mart for Santana, but they'll give him for Huff yeah right

What would Brian Boytano do?

Mets don't have the farm system to go after A. Gonzalez or another stud - Baseball Prospectus has them #18 overall with only a few prospets in the 40-100 range. They could get a decent bat though if they offered to take on an unattractive contract though.

lol.

ok, seriously, why would the indians give up victor martinez? and if they did, the mets would have to trade the farm for him. not gonna happen.

tatis is significantly better bat than sexton or vidro (enough better of a bat than either to deal with any shortcomings defensively).

of all the options mentioned, huff makes the most sense.

"A name than hasn't been thrown out a lot but would make some sense: Victor Martinez."

I could see V-Mart traded, but I think Brad Holt is a must for those deals. Something like Holt ++ , maybe, since the Tribe needs pitching.

"ok, seriously, why would the indians give up victor martinez? and if they did, the mets would have to trade the farm for him. not gonna happen."

Um, how about because their winning percentage is currently below .400 and they have two very viable replacements in Kelly Shoppach and Carlos Santana who won't cost $5 million this year or $7 million next. Are they expected to even pick up V-Mart's option? I guess they might since he can play 1B and he's been so good, but I could see them decided to save $7 million and letting him walk.

"I could see V-Mart traded, but I think Brad Holt is a must for those deals. Something like Holt ++ , maybe, since the Tribe needs pitching."

Yeah this I agree with. Holt's the guy they'd probably target. Maybe something like Holt, Kunz, Ruben Tejada, and some organizational filler? They could definitely use the RP help, and Kunz has been pretty decent in Buffalo. Tejada's a major rush job, but he's a decent sleeper prospect for a MI.

Uh-oh, He went there.

The last Mets prospect to do ANYTHING was Kazmir?

Daniel Murphy: .279/.342/.423 in a platoon

Mike Pelfrey: Since 2008, 17-11 with an ERA around 4.00 in over 222 IP

Bobby Parnell: 2.20 ERA/6 Holds/(2-0) Fastball hits 98

Mike Jacobs: .270/.339/.539 with 8HR in KC

"A name than hasn't been thrown out a lot but would make some sense: Victor Martinez."

Alright listen up Mets fans. The Indians are NOT trading Victor. End of story. He's the leader of the clubhouse and the only leader they have left.

HOWEVER, I do think the Indians and Mets could match up for a trade.... for Ryan Garko. The Indians have a ton of 1B/DH options either in the MLB or in the minors and Garko will have to be dealt eventually. This is something I could definitely see happening.

But V-Mart... he's pretty much untouchable.

This team is going to need a starter.. if they are going to break the bank with chips like Holt, Mejia, Marte, Flores, or F-Mart it will be on a starting pitcher at the trade deadline.

They could get someone cheap like Nick Johnson, WSH has been trying to get rid of him for awhile now.. the only problem with though is that he is injury prone.. Tatis would be a serviceable back-up if Nick runs into injury problems.

How about Atkins and 1 million bucks for Greg Veloz? Please!!!!

When the dodgers traded Santana, they didnt think he could stand being an every day catcher and may need to be a 1B, where the bat is only OK. His D wasnt good w/ the dodgers.

just cuz the indians aren't playing up to potential this season doesn't mean they don't expect to play better next year. vmart is one of the better hitters in the league. the only reason you trade him away is if you think you're a few years away (which, in that division, nobody is) or if you think you can't resign him (which i don't think they believe).

i think it's funny that fans of big market teams just think they can pluck away any guy that's going to get expensive in a trade because they have a need or desire for him.

it's not impossible that cleveland would trade him, but it's probably extremely unlikely (even w/minaya as GM) that the mets would meet the unreasonable demands that cleveland would make for a top player in the league that's not a half-season rental and is signed for a pretty reasonable number next year.

sorry for the double post, but they better not sign vidro, he's clubhouse cancer

Nick Johnson would be a stupid idea since the Mets could get someone better and cheaper and give up about the same. Johnson could just end up with another 1B on the DL and the Mets scrambling for an option later this year when the price for guys like Garko and Huff will be double.

Aubrey Huff and Ryan Garko are the best options for a 1st baseman however, an interesting point was brought up with Murphy moving to 1st base and the mets trading for a corner outfielder instead. If that were the case, there'd be a lot more names/options for the Mets.

However if they were to try and hit up a corner outfielder, it sure wouldnt be Ludwick, no chance. If were talking St.Louis I would say more along the lines of Ankiel because he is a FA at the end of the season or Chris Duncan because he could play 1st and the OF. Anyone have any other viable candidates for corner outfielders the Mets could rationally trade for?

If the Jays werent playing as well as they are I would easily say Overbay could be an option for NY as well.

V-Mart is going NOWHERE, Mets fans stop dreaming because it aint happening on either end of that deal. The Mets would have to give up a lot of future potential and the Indians will not trade their leader. If its Cleveland, its Garko, its that simple.

Garrett atkins is a good name to consider, along with helton.

I like the duncan option and huff.

Ill put the 5 best options at huff, duncan, johnson, helton, and atkins.

But what about derek lee? He's about done anyways. If he wasn't a cub, people would realize he's incredibly below average. All the blind cubs fans still think he's solid.

The mets are a big market team, but I don't think that would make them desparate enough to take on Helton's contract. They can probably get the same production out of tatis/murphy, and it's not costing them 19 million a year until 2012. I don't think the mets make a move until they see what murph/tatis can do, most of the guys that are available now aren't a big enough upgrade to bother trading for. Huff wouls be the exception, but I don't think omar would give up much to get him. The suggestion of f-mart and niese was probably the dumbest thing I've read on this site.

"GScott

Did you forget that the two most important and possibly best players on the Mets, David Wright and Jose Reyes, were drafted by the Mets? (Reyes was actually signed as an undrafted free agent). Those two players right there gives your system, whether it is developing or recognizing talent, a little bit of credit and prestige."

I think he was suggesting the farm hasn't produced much in awhile. Reyes and Wright are both young and very good but they've both been up for quite a few years now. That is not to say GScott was entirely correct- Daniel Murphy has established himself as a pretty solid bat, he just needs to find a position. Mike Pelfrey was pretty great last year but he has been a little iffy this year. If F-Mart ever comes up he's supposed to be a stud. Not a terrible system but they should be trying to rebuild it, not dump prospects for an average 1b player. Platoon for now.

Duncan? Yuck, I rather take Huff or Johnson.

"Santana is nowhere near ready for the bigs so I dont know what you're talking about. He's hitting .270 in AA, and Shoppach isn't considered ready to take the full-time job either."

Um, really? You're one evaluation tool for a prospect is batting average? How about the fact that he's widely considered the second best catching prospect in the game? How about his .945 OPS and absurd 13/25 K/BB? None of that does anything for you? I'm not saying he's ready to step into a big league catching job immediately, but he is not far away at all.

I'm not saying I'm an expert on the Indians motives, it was pure speculation on my part, and I don't think they'll trade him just for the sake of trading him, but it would be foolish to call him "untouchable" if the Indians don't climb out of the basement by the ASB. The money they save on V-Mart could buy them a legitimate pitching upgrade in the offseason, not to mention they could get a very nice prospect return.

I think Adam LaROuche is a good guy to take a look at. He's a FA next year and the Pirates are tanking. His numbers are less than stellar but I could see him finishing somewhere aroung .270/.340 20-25 hrs on a good team surrounded by some better, more established hitters. Probably wouldn't cost the Mets much either.

"Alright listen up Mets fans. The Indians are NOT trading Victor. End of story. He's the leader of the clubhouse and the only leader they have left.

HOWEVER, I do think the Indians and Mets could match up for a trade.... for Ryan Garko. The Indians have a ton of 1B/DH options either in the MLB or in the minors and Garko will have to be dealt eventually. This is something I could definitely see happening.

But V-Mart... he's pretty much untouchable."
Exactly. Cleveland is playing Martinez at 1B and Shoppach at C.

"and Shoppach isn't considered ready to take the full-time job either"
Where were you last year?

Garko or LaRoache to NYM makes perfect sense.

The question, however, is *should* the Mets deal for V-Mart.

I still hold my own that the Mets need starting pitching. The NL East is a very strong division. Livan Hernandez is a below average pitcher and Ollie is making himself a non-entity very, very quickly. He has a high BABIP, so he should get somewhat better, but his FIP is still above 6, he's being hit hard (LD%) and he's getting a ridiculously high percentage of flyballs. Hopefully he rebounds, or this had something to do with injury, but he was barely average in 2008. And he came into camp out of shape, if I'm right.

It would be stupid of Omar to deal for a guy like V-Mart and a pitcher because it would really deplete the farm IMO. What do y'all think?

Also, Fernando's getting close, and its great that his power is finally translating into XBH, but he's not ready to be a full time big leaguer yet.

And Bailey and Maloney are ust the base of the trade. It could be sweetened by each team adding something else of need.

As for this whole, VMart is a leader thing, the Indians have shown that they will make the "tough" trades if it's in the best interest of the organization (see CC, Thome, Vizquel, Manny, etc).
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I know some of those guys were not trades but you get my point. They won't overpay or let a player walk for nothing if they feel it's in the best interest of the organization.

Agreed 100% with everything you said YanksFan, except I honestly think Santana is even closer than two years away. Throw the batting average away, the dude has absolutely destroyed Double-A. He has a .945 OPS and he's actually been UNLUCKY. He has a .265 BABIP despite an 18.5 LD%. His command of the strike zone is stellar, he's drawn nearly twice as many walks as third strikes, that's completely absurd. His bat is probably big-league ready right now, IMO, its his polish behind the plate that he's still in the minors for. Next year, anything's possible, especially for an AL team that has a backup like Shoppach. They can ween Santana into the catching spot, keeping him in the lineup using the DH and letting Shoppach catch a good chunk of games.

IF the Indians are playing horrible baseball by the all-star break (i.e .400 winning %) then there's ZERO reason for them to be optimistic about 2010. There aren't too many great FA starters available next year and management has not shown the desire to splurge on expensive FA, especially if the team seems to be on the decline. Any trade to acquire a top notch mlb vet starter will require a boat load of prospects (Halladay, Oswalt, etc). Neither the trade for a major arm or the FA pickup seem likely for them. Lee might still prove himself to be a capable front of the rotation guy but after him Carmona, Pavano, Sowers, Reyes and Laffey are unproven and inconsistant. It's not like last year where the team was crippled with injuries to key players and Carmona was an enigma. Carmona is on the verge of having his 2nd consecutive bad year, Hafner is injury prone and VMart is having a career year which still isn't enough to pull them above .500 as of yet. WHy would Shapiro be optimistic with the talent they have on the major league staff, especially with the rotation? And there isn't any great mlb ready SP available on the AAA level either.

That I actually disagree with YanksFan, the Indians have actually been the unluckiest team in baseball when you compare their record to their third order expected win total. They're winning percentage is actually just about .500 by third order wins. And this is something Shapiro will be keen on and understand well. They actually aren't completely out of it this year, but they need a really, really good week or two sooner than later. And they're definitely still a threat for next year.

Sorry, I mean "third order". WHat does that mean?

Sort of a sabermetric way of figuring out how lucky or unlucky a team has been using composites of various team stats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_expectation

A bad bullpen is a common culprit for a team that's way under-performing their third order wins like the Indians are right now, but even they should be expected to play a bit better than they have overall the rest of the way. But forgetting the fact that they're actually still not many games out of their division, they have four solid if unspectacular teams to pass to have a chance at the playoffs. They're far from out of it, but also very far from being in it.

The way I interpret it for the Indians is that they're close, but are going to have to have a drastic change in luck bullpen performance very quickly if they want a shot at contention this year. But next year is a clean slate, and the tweaks that would turn this team from about average to pretty damn good are small tweaks. They have a very decent young core and pitching they can build with, but they'll need to get somewhat creative to get their pitching up to snuff, especially the bullpen. A guy like V-Mart seems like the perfect candidate for said creativity. He could bring in some very legitimate prospects, and while he's been great, the the cost/value is probably going to be much, much higher to use Santana and Shoppach. You get about $5 million extra to play with, and you could get at least two very good prospects and one or two decent ones. And not "build for the future" prospects. LaPorta type "build for next year" prospects. If I'm Omar Minaya, Brad Holt might be on the table for V-Mart, depending on how other circumstances transpire. The only complete untouchables would probably be Nando and Havens. But a lot would depend on Delgado's long term status and whether or not Ollie's injury suck goes away.

"What I don't understand is, people always acted as if Murph was going to take over first base in 2010 anyway. So, his time has come a few months earlier then expected, so what? Throw him in there, and lets go to work. If you were committed to giving him the spot next year, no reason to run out and get a replacement now."

Yeah this is really the difficult part. The thing about Murphy is that he's kind of a tweener. If he were slightly better defensively or had just a bit more power, he'd be a legit everyday guy. But as it is, with Delgado in the lineup, I think the move is to gamble on the power potential of Sheffield and Tatis as long as they're also getting on base. Murphy's a much safer bet in terms of consistently getting on base, but he doesn't have that power upside that the Mets lineup is really going to lack with no Delgado.

I think the talk about Murphy as the future first baseman is contingent almost as much on Fernando Martinez as it is on Daniel Murphy.

I hear David Ortiz is available cheap.

The Yankees might be looking to unload that underperformer they picked up over the winter. Had some funny name. What the heck was it now?

Third order wins stats aside, the Indians have a very bad rotation after you get past Lee, who has been somewhat shakey this year. Laffey performed well in 3 out of 4 of his starts and I don't know why he was moved to the pen?

Combines Carmona, Pavano, Reyes and Sowers are 6-11 w/ an era around 6.65 and a bb/ko rate of 59/84 plus they avg only 5 innings per start. They are just not good enough to compete and save for Carmona, none of them have shown a pedigree of being a good starting pitcher in the last 2 years. Simply put, the pitching staff sucks and Lee is NO "Doc" Halladay, where you can pencil him in for 8 innings and a win every 5 days. Except for a few good position players what is there to be excited about with regards to this team this year or in 2010?

Now things can turn around and maybe the pitching improves and they find a way to compete sooner than later this year but if they continue to decline and are 15 games out by all-star break then I think it's time to make some smart trades and improve the talent pool. And I would suggest that Shapiro go after near ready talent rather than low A ball talent. This team does not need a complete overhaul, simply a talent replinishing, especially in the starting pitching department.

Yeah, I mean, the thing about the Indians rotation is it would make an awesome back end, but there's no front end. But, if you add one or two good arms to this team, they're suddenly a very dangerous threat. Their offense is going to be deadly as guys like LaPorta and Santana come into their own. So they have to take stock and move their surpluses around to balance out their roster. That's why I'm sure they'll at least mow the idea of shopping a guy like V-Mart, and they'll be looking for a guy like Brad Holt, who has top of the rotation upside and shouldn't be a very long-term project.

Well, partly because I just don't think he'd have been part of the discussion anyway. He's under-performing this year, and he's not a big help to a team looking for near-future help. So yeah, essentially, he is untouchable, but more because I doubt Shapiro would value him as highly as I would than just out of principle.

To me, Havens is a guy who looks like he's going to help the Mets at a position of need soonish. Flores as a wonderful talent, and almost certainly has more upside, but if there was a team looking to build long term who really liked Flores and was willing to offer up the right player with the right contract, Flores would be on the table, IMO. But yeah, that wouldn't be V-Mart.

The thing Shapiro has to consider about trading VMart to a team is this:

He's an extremely talented hitter period. However, he has infinite more value if he's traded to a team seeking a high production offensive catcher VS a team looking for a 1B bat. So a trade to the Mets where they might see him as a 1B probably would not return as much to a team like Boston, even though there's ZERO chance they would trade VMart to Boston.

Yes, Vmart does offer versatility but I'm not sure the Mets would be willing to overpay for that versatility compared to a team desperate for a offensive minded, defensive capable C like VMart.

In a category of C, VMart is among the elite. In the category of 1B he's not. If for some reason he had to move from C to 1B full-time he simply wouldn't be as valuable of a player.

Honestly, I'm torn, you're right, I don't think the Mets should overpay, and another team might be more willing to, but I would definitely at least throw my hat into the ring if Shapiro starts taking calls on Martinez.

Yeah, that's why I was looking at it from Shapiro's perspective. He could fleece a team looking for offensive production from the C position. Cincinatti and FLorida would be great examples of teams that could use a veteran bat w/ power and a high OBP to settle the middle of their young lineups. They also have openings or low production from the C position. Also, if the Phillies wanted to get insane and dangle a nice package to Shapiro they could use an upgrade at C too. Their lineup is already top notch but Vmart would make them sick. They could slip Vmart in at #3 and move Utley behind Howard at #5 and Ibanez #6 and Werth #7...wow.

I could see an outside chance of the Mets getting Martinez, but no way before end of July, and if they are going to make a move they are going to want to do so sooner.

The reason I see a chance, is I can see something similar to what happened with Santana develop- Indians reluctantly decide to test the market on Martinez, and find out that the big market clubs are already set at 1B and don't want to part with their best prospects, while the Mets are willing to provide quantity if not exactly great can't miss quality.

Of course, this all falls apart if the Red Sox decide they like Martinez as a catcher for a few seasons, or if the Giants decide to be the first club to ever have catchers batting 3rd, 4th, and 5th in their lineup (Sandoval, Martinez, Molina). Don't really see a great fit elsewhere.

Although, the deal is going to have to be for a hell of a lot more than what Met fans above have been posting- think Parnell and Murphy from the major league roster, and then at least two of the Mets better prospects (Holt, Fernando Martinez, Flores, etc.)

White Sox should send Konerko away and acquire F-Mart

White Sox should send Konerko away and acquire F-Mart

Posted by: Tough | May 16, 2009 at 10:43 PM
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In the words of Damon Wayans..."Uhhhhh...nuh?"

Minaya would be shanked in the hallway with a shaved down pointy fungo bat handle prior to being allowed to pull the trigger on a deal like that. Konerko is off to a good start but F-Mart is an elite prospect. Mets could get Huff, Giambi, N. Johnson, LaRoche or Garko for way less than FMart and provide about the equal offense as Konerko.

Rich Aurilia from then Giants wont take much, also possibly Casey Blake from the Dodgers? How about Chad Tracy from Diamondbacks? Hank Blalock from the Rangers..Also im shocked that I brought this up but possibility of getting Mike Jacobs back from Royals!?.Chris Duncan does make alot of sense..NOW to the BIG name Derek Lee will be a fine addition to the Mets, HOW ABOUT Paul Konerko?

I say:

Mejia, Holt, Church, Ollie for Adrian Gonzalez.