Rosenthal's Full Count Video: Halladay, Padres, Orioles, Holliday, Dodgers

13 more days.

No way do you give up Kershaw. We're trying to fill holes, not upgrade our current starters. And when you consider how young Kershaw is, and team control...it just makes no sense to do that for Hallady for 1.5 years.

You can't compare Drabek to Kershaw.

The Jays may want Kershaw, but if they can't get him, what are there next best options in anyone's system?

I am sure 100 percent of Dodgers fans would prefer to lose out on Halladay then include Kershaw in a deal.

McCourt and Colletti are likely on board as well considering the financial issues of the McCourt's.

You are KIDDING, right?

I understand and agree,the Dodgers are only getting Halladay if they give up Kershaw - which they shouldn't do.

But seriously, even with Pavano having a solid season, him and Lee are probably not worth Kershaw. Pavano's contract is up after this season as well.

Dumb, dumb, dumb trade for the Dodgers.

Any trade of Kershaw is only going to hurt the Dodgers for this year and beyond. Since May 1 he's had an ERA of 2.03. That's not the ERA of a prospect. The only thing that is keeping him from being considered the ace of a team is his pitch count. When he's on the mound, he shuts the opposing team down.
If a team wants to ask about McDonald, Elbert, Martin or Lindblom, that's fine. It's time to put the Kershaw trade rumors to bed, just as we had to do with Billingsley, Broxton, Kemp, Ethier, Loney and Martin a few years ago.

Jays never deal with the Dodgers without including Kershaw.... so its never gonna happen...

Its better to deal with the brewers or phils for the jays...

The Dodgers have no A prospects in their system...

Period....

ALSO

I'm not faulting you guys for not wanting to trade Kershaw. I think trading him for an ace and keeping him are both justifiable positions.

My only point is that good players cost a lot. Cleveland/Toronto isn't just going to give their aces away. Especially Cleveland who has Lee signed to a team friendly contract without a "no trade clause".

Dodger fans are well aware they probably won't land Halladay or Lee. The comments that come from Dodger fans are that they'd rather keep Kershaw than acquire Halladay or Lee.

As for 1.5 years of cy young pitchers costing top talent, what did the Twins get for Santana? Was that top talent? And that was before the current economic crisis.

Just throwing it out there, but I wonder if the Blue Jays would accept Juan Pierre and Andre Ethier plus prospects for Vernon Wells and Halladay. Pierre is due roughly $23M over the rest of his contract. Wells is due roughly $100M. That would relieve a huge financial burden from the Blue Jays.

DodgersBruin:

Without Ethier, who would collect the walk-off hit in the world series?

Rthlshrtbrkr:

My money would be on The Eye Chart. As long as it's not a double where he has to slide head first, of course.

Not really Jays4Life. We already have someone who'll be comparable to Romero in Scott Elbert.

If the Jays threw in Brent Cecil, Brad Mills,or even Romero

do you think the dodgers give up Kershaw and a few others?

The Jays don't need any more lefty arm in their rotation... In fact the Jays never trew in Cecil, Mills, Zep or Romero....

I think either the Dodgers or jays never win the world series for a while...

Sad for both fans.... They simply don't have that stuff....

"To all the Kershaw lovers

If you're opposed to trading Kershaw then you're probably not getting Lee or Halladay or any front of the rotation starter.

You don't have any top 25 prospects or top level pitching prospects which is the standard going rate for Cy-Young level talent."

Then the Dodgers make the deal with depth. As in Toronto gets a greater number of pieces, but not one centerpiece. That was more what the Haren trade looked like, since there wasn't a Kershaw type prospect in that haul. 4 top prospects, but no consensus top 20 prospect. The A's didn't get Scherzer in the Haren deal and still got a massive haul.

Ethan Martin = Drabek, just a bit further away. The ceilings are about the same.

Something like Ethan Martin, Josh Lindblom, Andrew Lambo, James McDonald, and a 5th guy should definitely entice the Blue Jays.

How about 5 years of potential Cy Young pitching? I also predict that Cliff Lee will not achieve Cy Young status ever again.

Potential pitching is POTENTIAL pitching

If prospects and young players were can't miss then they'd never get traded

The way I look at it, if the Phils land Halladay (& I think they will), they will have the advantage going head to head VS the Dodgers.

If the Dodgers get Halladay, than I would certainly favor them in a series VS the Phils.

These teams are both formidable but Halladay would be a huge game changer. The biggest game changer currently available.

I can't believe what i'm reading...

This is pretty funny stuff...

The inhibitors involved will be the lack of prospects in the Dodgers farm and the economic burdens facing the McCourts...

To say, with a straight face, that Kershaw is worth more than the best pitcher in baseball at a seriously reduced price is absolutely insane...

Homerism at it's best and why you we aren't all GMs... We overvalue our hometown boys wayyyyyyyyy too much...

You guys haven't had a legit ace in the last decade... Imagine having Billingsley, Kuroda, Halladay and Wolf in a seven game series...

"The Jays would better want top class batters and the Dodger don't have any in their farm...

Toronto have too many lefty rotation arms such as Cecil, Mills, Zep, Romero, Castro, Purcey and Perez... and more in the low minors..."

No, no. Always go for best value available. You're only limiting yourself if you don't. If the best value is in a package built around pitching, you take it.

Prediction:

If Halladay gets dealt, it will be for much less than has been discussed.

It'll be closer to the Schilling and Sanatana deals than the Haren deal.

No one the caliber of a Montero, Hughes, Bucholtz, Kershaw, Drabek, etc... will be included in the deal.

Most people will look at the deal and go "Huh? That's it? That's all it took?"

Someone will get him at a great price.

We'll see in 2 weeks.

Posted by: rufus peckham | July 18, 2009 at 07:59 PM

Absolutely no way... if JP doesn't get at least one guy of a Montero/Drabek/Escobar caliber, with a lot more pieces there is no way he deals him he'd be better of keeping him than getting a lesser package, fans would rip him apart.

To prove a point, Keith Law responded to a fan in a chat and the fan asked if Escobar, Gamel, Braddock, and Parra enough, and Law said the Jays would reject that deal.

"I think Towers should dangle Bell. Lots of teams need that one reliever, and, really, the Padres need to rebuild. This would net a nice B prospect (Rangers?)"

They should be able to get much more than one B prospect for Bell

That's true, but it depends who they would deal him to. If it was, as I suggested, the Rangers, they could probably get 2 (B)prospects, and one "project prospect".

DodgersBruin//

If Kershaw is piching in the rogers center vs the evil American East....

I don't believe he manage that ERA....

.........

UnbiasedYankee:

Its faulty Logic

In Kershaw's last 6 starts he's 4-0 with a .76 ERA. Batters are hitting .162/.285/.197 against him during that span. If the Dodgers trade "The Minotaur" Dodger fans will burn down Dodger Stadium.

I believe that Kershaw could be a future cy award winner as a Dodger... But never as a Jay....

So, the deal between the Dodgers and the Jays never gonna happen in real life....

We get it Dodger fans, you dont wanna trade Kershaw. And that's understandable.

Except dont say you want Halladay if you arent willing to give him up. That's ridiculous.

Also, did you guys know Halladay is probably the single best pitcher in the MLB? Because you certainly arent giving him the credit he deserves on here.

Halladay is worthy of making the most money per season for a starter in baseball...

The Zito argument is laughable... You point towards one of the worst contracts in professional sports history...

If Halladay was given Zito's contract over the same course of time, would it be a bust ??? He would still be considered a value by todays standards...

Why would you send down a pitcher to AAA who has a 2.03 ERA since May 1? He may not be an ACE this year, but he's pitching like a #2, even if it's for 5.1 innings each start.

And yes, Halladay IS the best pitcher in baseball. But even he, with his massive salary, isn't worth a kid pitching as well as Kershaw. Halladay is a stud, but when taking everything into account, he's not going to be traded for Kershaw. Of course, I don't think the Phillies will give up Drabek either.

It very well be that Halladay won't be traded this year. Remember, Peavy was going to make less than Halladay and was under contract for more years, yet San Diego couldn't get a deal done for him. Young pitchers with a ceiling as a #1 don't get traded. It's the pitchers who are projected to be #2's or #3's that are traded.

I'd remove Sosa, and ask for Villalona or Gillaspie (peferred) myself. If I was Towers, and couldn't, I'd be thrilled to take such a package myself. I know you wanted merlonis, but this is valid enough that I wanted to comment.

McPhail should want to deal Huff. The O's aren't going to offer him artibration (8 million-ish), and they should get something for him while they can. The Giants are a perfect fit.

Posted by: UnbiasedYankee | July 18, 2009 at 08:13 PM

On the contrary, the Orioles would absolutely offer Huff arbitration.

(1) Current projections are he'll be a type-A free agent.
(2) His arbitration figure won't be all that high, all things considered.
(3) The O's don't have a 1B for next year. Brandon Snyder needs more time, Luke Scott hasn't played 1B since college, and Wigginton will likely be the everyday 3B next year.
(4) If he accepts, the O's have a very good hitter who has shown and said he wants to be here, unlike some other free agents who shall not be named. If he doesn't, we get two draft picks.

If Huff is to be traded, consider what other bats are available on the market and consider the potential draft pick compensation if he leaves at the end of the season. The Orioles don't need to dump his salary, and they are quite happy with him right now as their 1B, so MacPhail can wait for the right offer, which will likely be a left-side infielder less than two years away and an A-ball pitcher with MLB #3 starter upside.

"Why would you send down a pitcher to AAA who has a 2.03 ERA since May 1? He may not be an ACE this year, but he's pitching like a #2, even if it's for 5.1 innings each start."

He's walking over 5 per 9, and I think it would be better for him to refine his control for a stint in AAA. I think he's very close to being an ace, if he isn't one already, but his walks rates are beyond shaky.

"If the Dodgers trade "The Minotaur" Dodger fans will burn down Dodger Stadium."

Kershaw's garnered a nickname of Minotaur? I like this. That's probably the best fan nickname I've heard for a baseball player in a while.

"Melonis, what do you think about this offer:

Giants:
Adrian Gonzalez

Padres:
Buster Posey
Tim Alderson
Henry Sosa
Nick Noonan
Burriss/Bowker/Ishikawa"

I take it all day. Elite bat + elite arm. I want the 5th player to be Ishikawa though, as he's worth significantly more than Burriss or Bowker.

"I'd remove Sosa, and ask for Villalona or Gillaspie (peferred) myself. If I was Towers, and couldn't, I'd be thrilled to take such a package myself. "

I don't see the Giants dealing Villalona, Posey, and Alderson in the same deal. That would be highway robbery for the Padres. And I not sold on Gillaspie being that great of a prospect. I take Sosa, because he's more likely to pan out than Gillaspie IMO.

"Kershaw has a 132 ERA+ this season. He's 21. He's also making the league minimum. AND he's 11 years younger than Halladay, not to mention the $28M he's due over the next 1.5 years

Jeremy Sowers first half season he put up a 127 ERA+

And then he fell apart...

it's not uncommon for prospects to be awesome for their first season/half season and then fall flat.

So I think I'll stick with the small sample size before automatically giving Kershaw the ace crown

...by the way his FIP, a much better stat, is only a 3.53

Posted by: TheChairman | July 18, 2009 at 09:23 PM

Wait, a under 4 FIP for a 21 YEAR OLD PITCHER? Your guy, Ricky Romero has a 4.33 FIP. And you think he's better than Kershaw is.

Clayton Kershaw is 21.
He's currently leading the Dodgers in ERA, ERA+, FIP, etc.

HE IS 21.

He's the Dodgers ace already.

Haha Green Grove. If only it were that easy.

Knowing Sabean he will probably give up Villalona and Sosa for Freddy Sanchez.

I just hope that Sabean is at least considering dealing with SD. It is such a fair and logical deal. Gonzalez is literally the exact player that the Giants need.

'Jays never deal with the Dodgers without including Kershaw.... so its never gonna happen...
Its better to deal with the brewers or phils for the jays...
The Dodgers have no A prospects in their system...
Period....
Posted by: stevo | July 18, 2009 at 06:57 PM '

But the Phils and the Brewers arent offering their top guys. Drabek and Gamel/Escobar arent going to be moved.

'To all the Kershaw lovers
If you're opposed to trading Kershaw then you're probably not getting Lee or Halladay or any front of the rotation starter.
You don't have any top 25 prospects or top level pitching prospects which is the standard going rate for Cy-Young level talent.
Your system is extremely thin at the top and neither Cleveland nor Toronto HAS to trade either pitcher.
If you want 1.5 years of cy young pitchers its going to cost you. If you don't want to pay the price then its not even worth discussing.
Posted by: TheChairman | July 18, 2009 at 07:01 PM'

The Jays have been told that Kershaw is unavaibale. However, they like Josh Bell, a 3B. Look at Halladay stuff from yesterday.

'If the Jays threw in Brent Cecil, Brad Mills,or even Romero
do you think the dodgers give up Kershaw and a few others?
Posted by: Jays4Life | July 18, 2009 at 07:12 PM'

I dont think there is any person that is avaiable or could be that we would trade Kershaw for... Simply because you dont trade your ace, when he is 21, for anyone not named Pujols, Hanley, or a few other guys...

'How about 5 years of potential Cy Young pitching? I also predict that Cliff Lee will not achieve Cy Young status ever again.
Potential pitching is POTENTIAL pitching
If prospects and young players were can't miss then they'd never get traded
Posted by: TheChairman | July 18, 2009 at 07:31 PM'

But Kershaw isnt pitching on potential anymore. He has been better in the last few months than Halladay...

'The Jays would better want top class batters and the Dodger don't have any in their farm...
Toronto have too many lefty rotation arms such as Cecil, Mills, Zep, Romero, Castro, Purcey and Perez... and more in the low minors...
If halladay goes, A type right hander guy will be the one the Jays need... For ex, Joba and huge like....
Posted by: stevo | July 18, 2009 at 07:50 PM'

Thats cause our top guys are in the majors producing...

'Heck, I don't even expect Halladay to be moved until the off-season. If I was told he WILL be moved, I would guess your Phils above everyone else for Halladay's services. I doubt Coletti (note how nobody wants to call him dumb now, eh?) moves Kershaw, even for Doc, and JP will demand him, or no trade.'

Look at yesterday's posts. It says the Jays have been told no Kershaw, and yet we still talk. Once again, they like Bell.

'Question for Dodgers fans: Kershaw's still got all or most of his option years, right? '

I think he has at least one, but he isnt going down.

'"Then the Dodgers make the deal with depth. As in Toronto gets a greater number of pieces, but not one centerpiece. "

A bunch of lesser level prospects doesn't equal a top prospect.
The fact is that the dodger's system is relatively weak. Most of their top prospects are AA and below.
The Jay's aren't going to trade you their ace for a bunch of decent prospects. At the time of his trade Dan Haren was no Halladay. Dan Haren is still not a Halladay.

On top of that the Dodger's aren't going to trade half of their top ten prospects for Halladay. Especially when it would send two starting pitchers.
Even if you think its a fair value trade the Dodgers simply can't cripple their farm system for one player
Posted by: TheChairman | July 18, 2009 at 09:16 PM'

The dodgers would be willing to trade top prospects. They have multiple pitching prospects(McDonald, a #3 starter, in MLB pen, Lindblom, a #2 potential starter or a good closer, in AAA, i think, Elbert, a #2 potenial starter, in AAA, and Ethan Martin. He is lower down, but he is an ace potenial.) Meanwhile, we have hitters like Lambo(a future Ethier with more power), Russell(projected to be Branyan with less power), JOsh Bell, a power 3B, and Pedro Baez, another power 3B. We have plenty of guys that would intice the Jays. And i didnt mention DeJesus and Gordon...

Clayton Kerhsaw against the Astros tonight.

103 pitches, 7 innings, 1 walk, 2 hit, 5Ks, and a new owner of a 2.95 ERA.

We are not trading him.

You guys are right. Kershaw will be a great pitcher.

But his great night against the Astros in July definitely wont help him in the NLCS against the Phillies.

Dodgers are regular season champs this year. But they will not win the Series with this squad.

That's a fact.

"(McDonald, a #3 starter, in MLB pen, Lindblom, a #2 potential starter or a good closer, in AAA, i think, Elbert, a #2 potenial starter, in AAA, and Ethan Martin. He is lower down, but he is an ace potenial.) Meanwhile, we have hitters like Lambo(a future Ethier with more power), Russell(projected to be Branyan with less power), JOsh Bell, a power 3B, and Pedro Baez, another power 3B. We have plenty of guys that would intice the Jays. And i didnt mention DeJesus and Gordon... "

yes you are right... the dodgers have the best farm ever... hmmm....

what a fan... potential means potential... I believe the blue jays have already better haul than thoes who are in the Doderers farm if everybody reach their potential...

Kershaw is 21, and shouldn't be expected to be the foundation of a playoff push. For anyone to justify trading Kershaw on the balance of 2 or 3 postseason starts that haven't happened yet (at the raw age of 21) is ludicrous at best. That Kershaw's FIP is only 0.55 behind Halladay's at 21 is testament to his supreme talent.

The Dodgers don't need to replace Kershaw or Billingsley, they need to replace the Jeff Weavers of the world, and they need a couple bullpen arms more than anything at this point. They cannot in all likelihood land Halladay or Lee without dealing Kershaw, which makes this whole situation a probable moot point.

Also - to the guy who compared Kershaw to Sowers, citing his 127 ERA+ for half a season, remember that Sowers doesn't miss bats, where Kershaw does. Sowers has never had a K/9 higher than 4.76. Kershaw, last year at the age of 20 had one of 8.36, and is up to 8.94 this year. They are only comparable in that they both play baseball and are both left-handed.

ThinkBlech- Halladay isnt a one season rental. And if trading a top prospect for a chance at two world series rings was ludicrous then a bunch of GM's are idiots. (But i dont wanna call Kershaw a prospect cause bandwagonfan4life will blow a gasket at me)

Then again i'm not saying the SHOULD do it. I'm just saying that they definitely will not get Halladay if the do not.

Well if that's how it works then trade Weaver for Halladay. Actually, screw it, my Padres will just trade for Halladay AND Kershaw. Maybe for Guadin and Correia?

But since that's NOT how it works, you can just keep Kershaw and they'll keep Halladay.

Cause he's not getting traded for Josh Bell.

Kershaw 7 shutout innings tonight. His ERA this month is 0.35.

lakersdodgersyankees4life wrote:
"The dodgers would be willing to trade top prospects. They have multiple pitching prospects(McDonald, a #3 starter, in MLB pen, Lindblom, a #2 potential starter or a good closer, in AAA, i think, Elbert, a #2 potenial starter, in AAA, and Ethan Martin. He is lower down, but he is an ace potenial.) Meanwhile, we have hitters like Lambo(a future Ethier with more power), Russell(projected to be Branyan with less power), JOsh Bell, a power 3B, and Pedro Baez, another power 3B. We have plenty of guys that would intice the Jays. And i didnt mention DeJesus and Gordon..."

Have to correct you, Elbert is in LA.... He has pitched in three appearances since his last call up on 7/11, doing pretty well...

Well... I'm a realist, and while we have ML ready prospects (or nearly ML ready), we don't have ML ready blue chippers. Lindblom? Possible set-up man. Paul? Maybe a guy who hits 7th in your lineup. That's about the extent of our ML ready prospects. Our #1 prospect from last Winter's BA rankings, Andrew Lambo, isn't exactly a house of fire thus far and wouldn't be an acceptable centerpiece either. It's unfortunate that Carlos Santana was sold to the Indians, as he could very well have been the centerpiece of a deal, but that's neither here nor there. Long and short of it - the Dodgers do not have high-impact prospects nearly ready for major league baseball. Not a one. Kershaw isn't either, he's an established big-leaguer. So, unless and until the Jays change their stance, this is pointless drivel.

Whoa dude, i wasnt attacking you, i disagree with you over the fact that Halladay could be traded to the Dodgers without Kershaw, but that's it.

I'm not starting a fight. I was just playing on the fact that you have a lot of teams in there.

But seriously, Halladay to the Dodgers just aint happening.

eh, you call me a bandwagoner and try to start a fight, but then when your proven wrong, cant say anything. I have a strong feeling that if i didnt say anything, you would have kept going...

baseball fan, your correct. I forgot he got called up.

melonis, I included him because he has been in all these rumors, but you are correct, it is too small a sample size.

I woulda kept going. With more names like that. Plus i put the Red Sox part in there on purpose. It was a joke on your name.

I never said you were an idiot or anything. I just said i disagreed.

"Dodgers are regular season champs this year. But they will not win the Series with this squad.

That's a fact."

Care to share any more baseball "facts?"

Like how somebody like J. Sanchez from SF throw the first no-hitter of 2009?

Or how about Jeff Weaver winning the final game of the world series for the Cards in 2006?

You probably also knew that Ibanez would post an OPS almost .200 over his career this year, right?

Give me a break. Baseball is full of surprises. That's one of the things that makes it so great.

Okay, i will.

Dodgers wont win the world series this year.

Genius.

Who will?

I dont know who will.

Baseball is full of surprises. That's one of the things that makes it so great.