Red Sox Rumors: Bay, Baldelli, Papelbon

never ever

I think the sox should go after adrian again and keep youk at third base. it would definantly be likely if Hoyer becomes the padres gm.

I could see a three way deal going down, that send Pap to someone and the prospects of that trade and some sox prospects to the padres for adrian.

We should trade dice-k, bowden, and two other prospects for Prince Fielder and J.J Hardy or Matt Gamel.

The red sox should try to dump dice k s contract somewhere. I am surprised no one has brought it up

"Papelbon, DelCarmen, Lars Anderson and Ryan Kalish for Josh Johnson and Hanley. It seems fair for both clubs, and we wouldn't have to give up all of our farm."

That package wouldn't get Johnson OR Hanley...

Sorry harrison when I posted mine yours wasn't up yet but hey great minds think alike

I think after we trade papelbon and dice k we should trade for a gone but then sign john lackey

Papelbon, DelCarmen, Lars Anderson and Ryan Kalish for Josh Johnson and Hanley. It seems fair for both clubs, and we wouldn't have to give up all of our farm.

Posted by: SOXFEVER | October 13, 2009 at 05:40 PM

Hrmm... a closer who is close to hitting free agency (and openly said that he is not willing to deal with an extension), a reliever who posted an era around 4.5 and a walk rate of 5 per 9 IP, plus two prospects who didn't fair too well in AA this year.

Exactly how fair is this for the team that is trying to rebuild? Obviously this trade would mean that the Sox wouldn't have to give up much. Good thing we don't live in your world.

This proposal would only open talks for Johnson; not even close with Hanley. Johnson is the ace of that staff and throws in the high 90's. Would you trade Lester + Youk (Obviously there isn't a player on the Sox who remotely matches up to Hanley's offensive capabilities but Youk will have to do) for the Paps plus company? I think not.

Remember that trades have to make sense for both teams. You are grossly over estimating prospects who haven't even sniffed major league pitching.

I don't know why anyone else doesn't realize that JJ Hardy is terrible! He was in AAA most of the season. If he did horribly in the NL how do you think he'd fair in the AL East.

Does anyone think the Braves will trade Jair Jurgens and Yeneul Escobar to the Red Sox for say delcarmen, bowden maybe?

"We need prince fielder so bad. Dice-k is probably good for 4 prospects maybe. Trade papelbon for some top prospects like chris davis of texas or matt laporta of cleveland. idk its a thought"

Dice-K isn't worth even 1 good prospect.
See: Daisuke's WHIP
See: Daisuke's contract

Who would we need to trade to get Prince then? dice-k would at least give then a pretty good starter for now.

Does anyone think the Braves will trade Jair Jurgens and Yeneul Escobar to the Red Sox for say delcarmen, bowden maybe?

Posted by: harrison | October 13, 2009 at 06:02 PM

It would take allot more then that but maybe a package centered around Pap and/or Lars

LOL some of these trades wouldn't fly in a video game with the AI turned off. Dice-k for 4 prospects? lol. That's really funny too.

One more thought - might be useful for some folks.

If you have players leaving the Red Sox going to another team (like the Padres or Marlins), sending over big contracts isn't going to work. The Marlins have no need for a closer that would eat up 1/3rd of their total budget. If you want to deal with the Marlins you will want to target players on their team who are going to get real expensive while giving them high ceiling talent that is cost controlled.

Generally speaking the Marlins don't sell off pre-arb guys and don't acquire expensive talent (unless the other team is paying the freight).

The Red Sox have NOTHING to offer the Marlins or the Brewers that would get them Hanley or Fielder. Fielder has been playing serviceable first-base defense with a near-.300 BA and Barry Bonds-level HR numbers. You guys have nothing to trade the Brewers that would be fair. If anybody has trade pieces for a guy like Fielder or Hanley Ramirez, it's gonna be the Cards or the Yankees, MAYBE the Dodgers. Nobody else, really. I also highly doubt that the Mariners will trade King Felix to an AL club.

I think you could get a deal done for Paps with the right club, though.

3 way trade between Boston, St. Louis and the Marlins:

Pujols + Hanley to the Red Sox

and everyone else can divide the following:

Papelbon, Delcarmen, Lowell, Dice-K, Papi, and Nick Green. (Basically, anyone who didn't contribute in the playoffs)

Seems fair to me.

Man, yankee homer thinks his farm is so good, "If anyone has the farm, cards or yankees"

LOL. All you got is Jesus Montero and Austin Jackson. You buy all your other players

"Man, yankee homer thinks his farm is so good, "If anyone has the farm, cards or yankees"

LOL. All you got is Jesus Montero and Austin Jackson. You buy all your other players"

Add that to the list of "homers" who don't know more than 3 or 4 Yankee prospects.

It's funny the Yankees are ranked only 1 below the Red Sox in terms of the farm.

Please just stop talking.

Michael Bowden was absolutely murdered at the major league level this year. Its safe to say his stock has significantly dropped.

Papelbon isn't worth an impact bat.

The fact of the matter is while the Sox farm system has quality prospects, they are all AA or lower which isn't likely to get star players as it carries a risk. That article refers to 2011 in the Farm system - hoping for a good year from Anderson, and continue good performances from Kalish, Kelly, Reddick, Westmoreland etc etc.

IF the Brewers do trade Fielder, and there is nothing really indicating that will definently trade him, they will need MLB ready starting pitching, which the Sox only have Buchholz who they want to keep.

The Red Sox are not going to do any substandial trades this offseason. They may nab a free agent or two but that will be it.

The Sox are going to keep their young talent beacuse they need to get younger.

Who would the Red Sox most likly trade this offseason? Who would they trade for also?

gnick55 is exactly correct. In order to get a big bat (Fielder/ Gonzalez) the Red Sox would have to give up a lot of possible future stars. Buchholz hasn't been outstanding but he has great stuff and will probably be a 15+ game winner in the future.

In my opinion, expect the 2010 Red Sox to be third, maybe second in the AL East (depending on how the Rays do) next year. As Theo stated, 2010 is going to be the last hurrah for the Sox Veterans (Lowell, Ortiz and possibly Beckett). Then expect the 2010 offseason to be the one when they spend the big bucks signing good players.

In my opinion, Jason Bay will not be back next year. They will have some OK left fielder that they would be lucky if he put up half the numbers of the '09 Jason Bay.

Michael Bowden was absolutely murdered at the major league level this year. Its safe to say his stock has significantly dropped.

Posted by: unstoppable | October 13, 2009 at 06:29 PM

There is no denying Bowden was ineffective at the major league level this season but it's important to at least consider that he wasn't used in the role he was groomed for (a starter on regular rest). He was rotting in the bullpen or was utilized as an emergency starter without the benefit of regular rest and throw days. Taking a pitcher that has an established routine and changing it on the fly tends to backfire. As a result, his command was uncharacteristically shaky. Some pitchers can pull that off, a lot can't. The results weren't pretty but the most I think you can take away from that is that he doesn't have a future as a swingman. Going any further with than that is reactionary. Michael Bowden just turned 23 in September and his numbers down in Triple A were still good. It's not like he hit the wall or suffered a drop in velocity; he got roughed up when used irregularly out of the bullpen after being a starter for his entire career.

"We should trade dice-k, bowden, and two other prospects for Prince Fielder and J.J Hardy or Matt Gamel.

Posted by: harrison | October 13, 2009 at 05:43 PM

Does anyone think the Braves will trade Jair Jurgens and Yeneul Escobar to the Red Sox for say delcarmen, bowden maybe?

Posted by: harrison | October 13, 2009 at 06:02 PM

We need prince fielder so bad. Dice-k is probably good for 4 prospects maybe."

ARE YOU KIDDING?

You're like breaking the record for dumbest trade ideas.

"YanksFan408 it isn't about the free agents the Yankees have brought in, it's the fact that their payroll allows them to keep everyone they wany. You think the Red Sox or any other team could hold onto all their players before free agency?"

Uhh...yeah. It's not like the Red Sox are grasping for money.

@Bomberman26

"The Red Sox have NOTHING to offer the Marlins or the Brewers that would get them Hanley or Fielder."

Really? So if the Red Sox called up the Brewers and offered to deal Papelbon(eat his salary), Buchholz, Ellsbury, Casey Kelly, Ryan Westmoreland, and Lars Anderson the Brewers would hang up? I love these freaking MORONS that make players untouchable. Fielder is not God, I'm sorry.

Really? So if the Red Sox called up the Brewers and offered to deal Papelbon(eat his salary), Buchholz, Ellsbury, Casey Kelly, Ryan Westmoreland, and Lars Anderson the Brewers would hang up? I love these freaking MORONS that make players untouchable. Fielder is not God, I'm sorry.
_____________________________
So the Brewers essentially get a bunch of unknowns, a serviceable starter and a decent CF for one of their top players. But what they want is not AA unknowns it's almost ML ready prospects.

I love the overrated hype of the Sox farm system.

YanksFan408 it isn't about the free agents the Yankees have brought in, it's the fact that their payroll allows them to keep everyone they wany. You think the Red Sox or any other team could hold onto all their players before free agency?

Posted by: brian91388 | October 13, 2009 at 06:56 PM

Are you suggesting that there should be a cap? I think that teams could do a lot better job at spending the money they spend, that is for sure. I definitely think the Red Sox could hold onto their players - they are doing it.

Pedroia/Lester/Youk/Ellsbury soon probably, same with Clay I would think.

Also, in your other post at 7:03. It's not like the Red Sox would EVER EVER offer anything to that extent. I know Bomberman26 was making a dumb point and didn't really make sense but the fact is the Sox's better talent is in the lower levels. Which isn't a bad thing, that's just where it is right now.

I dont know why everyone is jumping ship on guys like Ortiz, Lowell or Daisuke. Ortiz hit over 25 homers after the break, Lowell hit when he played and Daisuke was out almost the whole year and wasnt ready for postseason play (not like it mattered since we failed to beat LA at all). The team is strong, although i agree an aggressive bat is something the team really needs, and Bay too If he returns.

Getting Felix taps the prospect farm dry, no more trades this year if that goes down. I dont think he will move though, if the proposal that came up on this site was true then it would take the hand of god to move him.

A Adrian Gonzalez or Prince Fielder trade seems more possible, especially Fielder since the Brewers will probably fail to extend him this offseason. I think you can get JJ Hardy for Daisuke and cash too. I also think Everth could be made available if the sox manage to blow away San Diego, but blowing away the Brewers seems closer to reality.

A Papelbon trade wont get an impact bat unless its a top 100 prospect bat (ie Matt LaPorta) I think Papelbon gets traded for prospects to make bigger deals, not for players that will actually play for the team, but an idea like going after a LaPorta but thats risky for the Red Sox on a top 3 closer.

Without thinking, resign Alex Gonzalez, he is the best shortstop the team has had since 04, like Nike, just do it

Screw Baldelli, that experiment stunk, i never wanted him here to begin with, get some faster utilty filders like we got after the all star break, that was fun to watch.

All and all, the sox will be a winning team next year, but the yankees will win the divsion again next year, Tampa will bounce back (they have to with all that talent) and Toronto will be a big pest too

dear sox fans talking about Hanley, shut up. you look ignorant, that ship has sailed and is long gone

Do you guys realize it is threads like this that make people hate Red Sox fans.

I mean, the 'offers' on this thread are absolutely ridiculous.

Everyone give it a rest with bashing the dumb trade ideas. Every team has fans that make the rest look dumb. Its just a fact of life, remember that fan is short for fanatic.

04forever: I doubt that the Padres make Everth available. 1. He is young (22) Cheap and controllable. 2. We have no replacement for him above low A, and Cumberland is been hurt most of the time since being drafted. And lastly, he is one of the few reasons why anyone was at the park in the last few months, do see young players that had a chance to be good play, they would lose a lot of fans trading away someone that far from free agency with his upside.
On Adrian he is more likely to be moved, as much as it hurts to think about. But he would still cost a ton in the terms of prospects. Its something that will develop of the next couple of months, and we shall see what transpires.

I would do the following:
1. Trade Jonathan Papelbon, Jacoby Ellsbury, Clay Buchholz and like 9 other prospects to land Hanley Ramirez, and Josh Johnson.
2. Sign John Lackey to a 3 year contract.
3. Sign Bobby Abreu to a 2 year contract.
4. Re-sign Jason Bay to a 2 year contract.
5. Sign Rafael Betancourt to a 1 year deal.
Look at this lineup and rotation:

1. Dustin Pedroia
2. Kevin Youkilis
3. Hanley Ramirez
4. Jason Bay
5. Victor Martinez
6. Bobby Abreu
7. Mike Lowell
8. David Ortiz
9. Josh Reddick

1. Josh Beckett
2. Jon Lester
3. John Lackey
4. Josh Johnson
5. Dice-K

Cl. Daniel Bard
Set-up. Rafael Betancourt

Yeah, he is right.

Therefore, I doubt that happens ;)

Hiyoooooo!

Forgot about Wagner and Saito.

I would rather have Wagner than Saito, but both would be nice. Saito you can use to eat relief innings before the break, the deal to a team in need at the break. Having a Bard/Wags/Paps end of the game combo would be terrific. Any of those guys can close, and Bard can learn a ton from both of the others, especially Wags.

And just make it policy to let Wags take every third save opportunity. That way, he will definitely get 400 for his career but not wear him down(still coming back from from Tommy John, afterall), Paps can still work on his resume for some other club, and the pressure is off Bard to be the guy to soon.

"What about bowden for matt Gamel?"

Deal

In order to contend with the yankees, the red sox need to make a huge splash somewhere. Preferabley, we would trade papelbon to the highest bidder and dice k to either someone who takes his contract or we pay his contract and get prospects back. Then make a run at Adrian Gonzalez and throw everything at the padres. Bring in lackey for a 3 year deal and rich harden to a one year deal. Trade lowell to whoever takes him for just about anything. Bring in scutaro for shortstop. We should be all set then

For the most part I believe the sox will NOT make a huge splash this offseason..after 2010 If they dont resign Beckett,Papi, Lowell and tek..also Lugos last 9mil, the sox have 49mil coming off the books..I think thats when the "Big Splash" will be made..probably a better FA market than this year..Bard isnt ready yet and Saito will be owed 6mil this year if we pick up his contract, so I think Paps stays 1 more year..Everyone please stop with all the fantasy/ps3 trades..All the sox top talent is not due to come up til 2011...there are a lot of talented players with high ceilings down on the farm..I think 1 more year for them to develop, and all the big contracts to come off the books and the sox will be dealing...

what if the Red Sox signed Andrew Jones to a 1 year 3-5 million for one year?

id rather be dead then have Andruw Jones on the Red Sox, hes like 0 for however many at bats he had at Fenway for his career. F him

In order to contend with the yankees, the red sox need to make a huge splash somewhere. Preferabley, we would trade papelbon to the highest bidder and dice k to either someone who takes his contract or we pay his contract and get prospects back. Then make a run at Adrian Gonzalez and throw everything at the padres. Bring in lackey for a 3 year deal and rich harden to a one year deal. Trade lowell to whoever takes him for just about anything. Bring in scutaro for shortstop. We should be all set then

Posted by: RMB915 | October 13, 2009 at 07:54 PM
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This is ridiculous. You don't trade these kinds of guys in the winter before their last year under contract. You want them to come off your books, not someone elses! And you sure as hell don't want to eat the last year of the contract to do it, either.

If you're going to do it, you wait until the All-Star break, when teams with talent that were trying to compete but won't be serious contenders by season's end would be more willing to deal top-tier guys for upcoming salary relief.

There's no need to take on someone else's money(thereby making you less of a player in the next free agent market) when you can just as easily free up more of your own in the same time frame for that upcoming free agent market.

RM915; Ok 1st; dice has a no trade clause and him coming to Boston was as much for marketing in japan as it was to have a solid #3 in the rotation..2; You will get NOTHING for Lowell..Plus I think he will put up better numbers next year.3; Lackey will command 16mil+..what about $$ for Beckett and Bay? 4; Scutaro??? really?? Please..NO!! The sox prospects need another year to better develop and have more value on the market..trading the farm now when their value isnt as high as they are projected to have would be foolish IMHO..

Looks like we're on the same page with Dice-K.

Is rocco baldelli even worth signing?

Dice K's salary isnt really bad..it was that 51mil posting fee..10:$8M, 11:$10M, 12:$10M..thats a pretty good bargain if you ask me for a 18 game winner....

Without a doubt the worst collection of trade proposals I've ever seen here. Resign Gonzo for 2/7 and if Bay and Holliday outprice themselves, sign Abreu for 2/16 max. Dangle Papelbon, Delcarmen, and Bowden for Smoak and Teagarden from Texas or put together a package for Adrian Gonzalez centered around Buchholz, Anderson and others while signing either Ben Sheets or Erik Bedard. I am of the belief that Bay will only get 4/56 while Hollidays looking at around 5/75. I just don't see a better economy or teams with cash to burn outside of the usual suspects, NY and Boston. Dunn's 2/20 is still the benchmark for what a lot of teams are willing to spend on 30 yr.old sluggers with poor defense IMO!

I think Boston may try and start up a trade for Felix again. But, I really don't think he'll become available till the trade deadline if 1 of 2 things:

1. Felix has made it utterly clean that he will not resign with Seattle or wants to see what kind of offers he gets in FA.

2. Seattle is utterly out of contention by July and Felix wants a ridiculous offer.

I think Felix deserves a huge payday, but I mean if he's asking for Arod money or more. And even if he is traded at next deadline he still is under team control for a year and a half. Plenty of time to work out a contract and still enough time to ask for a hefty deal.