Discussion: Should Detroit Move Cabrera?

I would just wait it out and let those other contracts run out.. Miggy, Granderson, and Jackson should be kept and if they cannot expunge those other contracts they should just wait til 2011.

Well I would trade Jackson because I believe his stats are bound to regress.

Does Rosenthal work for the Red Sox now? Papelbon+Lowell+Anderson couldn't land Cabrera's jock strap.

"Discussion: Should Detroit Move Cabrera?"

Simple answer: No.

See thats the whole point though, its not the size of the package that they get for Miggy that is the good part, its saving almost $200 million to spend in other places to rebuild the team. If the Red Sox offered Lowell for free, Papelbon and BOTH Anderson and Pimentel and took on all the money, how do you not get upside in that?

its going to happen, they already made the easier cuts of the degrading players, this is going to happen soon enough. Detriot cant afford a losing club with a massive contract if they are serious about rebuilding, its not possible.

What if the sox took on 50% of the Ordonez money too? that might be something to sox could do if the Bay signing falls through

"Papelbon, Lowell, and Anderson for Miggy.... really?!? Detroit would be getting fleeced worse than they did in the Renteria for JJ and Gorkys deal!!"

You do realize that these salary figures floating around are not paid in Monopoly money, right?

mets farm except for davis for cabrera

"See thats the whole point though, its not the size of the package that they get for Miggy that is the good part, its saving almost $200 million to spend in other places to rebuild the team. If the Red Sox offered Lowell for free, Papelbon and BOTH Anderson and Pimentel and took on all the money, how do you not get upside in that?"

The Sox pay Lowell's salary, and all of Papelbon's pay throughout his arbitration years, and add a better prospect than Anderson (come on, he's approaching non-prospect level if he repeats his awful 2009), and it's close.

Lowell+Papelbon+Anderson without eating salary is stupid, though.

mets farm except for davis for cabrera

Posted by: johan is GOD | November 15, 2009 at 03:45 PM"

Pretty sure they would like a first baseman..

Yes, all this talk about the Tigers moving players is dumb because they are too dumb to move players. They'd want WAY too much for Cabrera and because of his contract, he is less valuable in a trade. I would hate to see the Red Sox give a bail out to Detroit just because their scared to have a lil payroll and keep it. The mentioned trade of Papelbon Lowell and a prospect would be MORE than sufficient but it wouldn't solve the FINANCIAL problem the Tigers have. So if they expect to trade ANY of their players you can't expect to get great talent AND for a team to eat the salary too. If you think differently, you won't ever win. Ever.

Hmm. Magglio and Cabrera? Kind of interesting...When does Miggy's contract run out?

Thanks Dunkin. Apparently simple math is not my strong suit.

How about Miguel Cabrera for Luis Castillo?

Danny Murphy for Miggy straight up!

I could definitely see the Braves become players in this if they lose out on LaRoche. Miggy is paid just too much and that could be a huge problem when trying to trade him to someone other than the Red Sox and Yankees.
If I were Detroit, I wouldn't shop him and instead get rid other expenses for salary relief, bullpen arms, and prospects (if Granderson is traded).

I think the Tigers have a fair market value on Cabrera, and he's young, I wouldn't trade him if I was them. He's only 26 and can be built around if they do to choose to rebuild. I don't know why Detroit suddenly became some small market team, his contract shouldn't be that much of an albatross once the bad ones come off the books.

i wouldnt trade Buchholz now at this point unless it were for one of two pitchers, King Felix or Doc Hallady, and im not even sure id throw him in for a rental on Doc

So RedSox169 are you suggesting I'm right other than I think it's dumb to get Cabrera? I mean sure, I think he'd make the lineup better but at what cost? I think that the Sox have a real shot at getting Adrian I just hope for 1. that fans of the other 28 teams don't think that the Jed Hoyer- Theo relationship made it happen kinda like non Celtics or Wolves fans did about the Mchale-Ainge relationship in regards to Kevin Garnett. 2. There isn't some crazy expectation that we have to rework Adrians contract. Not that extending him is a bad idea but giving him way more money isn't the best idea when you can pay him what he's making now.

Red Sox Get:
Miguel Caberea
Magglio Ordonez

Tigers Get
Jonathan Papelbon
Mike Lowell
Top Prospect
A Boat Load of Cash, around about $210,000,000

besides, the last thing the mets should do is trade away all their top talen for one player when they need to address other aspects of the team themselves. werent they even considering moving Beltran at one point?

The only team that really makes sense is the Sox. They have the money, trade chips and position need.

To Sox:
Cabrera $20M
Ordonez $18M
Willis $12M (Total $50M)

To Detroit:
Mike Lowell
Lars Anserson
Jeremy Hermida
George Kottaras
Josh Reddick (Total $16M)

Detroit then signs:
Figgins $8M
Lackey $18M (Total $26M)

04forever, stop talking until you know what you are talkin about. Why would the mets trade their best player

LOL 210,000,000??? MLB will let that go through for sure.

Dumb idea.

Most of these writers are just stirring up trouble for the fun of it.

The Tigers would be trading him to free up money. Why would they want Papelbon and Lowell, they are both expensive. Maybe the Red Sox would pick-up Lowell's contract, but still. They probably want cheap, controlled players.

Try:

Bucholtz
Lars Anderson
Jed Lowrie

A resounding NO!!!!

Paps, Lowell, plus a "solid" prospect?
Are you kidding me?
Theo would be laughed off the phone my Dave!!
Why would the Tigers give up their offensive force? They sucked offensively last year, that's what lost them pitching duels!! This is ridiculous!
Tigers fans, wait 'till this next seasons over. Then, some of the dead wait will come
off the books!
But, regardless of how crappy the Tigers' payroll and season will be, the AL Central is totally up for grabs!

Braves could offer Freeman (one of the top 1b specs in baseball) along with some veryy good specs.

Wow, god this thread is just one giant mind f&$#...The Tigers shed pretty much every awful contract after next year. Why would they go into rebuilding mode by trading their best players for your garbage prospects when they'll be able to sign pretty much anybody in 2011?

If the Tigers fail to resign Polanco/Everett, then Lowrie could be a great addition to them. Lowrie, Reddick, Paps, Pimental for Cabrera and Ordonez?

NO. Lowrie isnt any good. If the Sox don't even want him to play ss, we don't need him pawned off on us. You Red Sox fans can just keep dreaming on this one

Dude no, Mike Lowell will not help the Tigers. They have Inge under contract. We don't need another 3b. The sheer fact that were talking about this is very annoying.

"This thread is full of dumb. The Tigers can just wait until 2011 when pretty much all of their crap contracts expire and then go from there. More bull from an east coast writer trying to get the idiots from New York and Boston all riled up."

This is true. The idea is supposedly to free up future commitments. Take a look at what comes off the books after this year and what they will be on the hook for

Off hook after 2010
18MM for Maggs
12.5 for Bonderman
12.0 for Willis
10.0 for Robertson
6.6 for Inge
thats up to about 60 million off the books in 2011.

Meanwhile, this is their commitments
20 to Miguel in 2011, 21 in 2012
13 to Guillen in 2011, FA in 2012
8.25 to Granderson in 2011, 12 in 2012

41 committed in 2011, 33 committed to 2012. Hardly breaking the bank. Even if they brought payroll back down to the 90-100M range, they would be fine.

The idea behind trading Cabrera, Granderson and Jackson then becomes adding high-value prospects which would alleviate the need for future commitment where the money saved can eventually be spent on filling the holes off the FA market that the prospects dont fill themselves. In other words, rebuilding.

The Tigers are merely pondering the idea of rebuilding here after getting freaked out at the GM meetings over how much they are stupidly wasting on some of their players. So they are "listening" on Granderson and Jackson (and possibly Miguel) and if the prospect return makes it worth while, maybe they rebuild - maybe.

But trade proposals to the Tigers not including prospects for a rebuild would be pointless. If they did end up trading their stars, they would be looking to the far future - not immediate (they would be rebuilding). And you dont rebuild off guys like Lowell and Papelbon (players with only 1 year control for a combined total of about 20 million themselves).

If Granderson, Jackson and/or Cabrera are dealt, then you will need to expect nothing more then prospect packages in return. And they will likely have to be paying more value then you would expect as rebuilding isnt necessity for Detroit, its an unlikely possibility - something to "listen" to offers and ponder the longterm meaning.

Braves would not do it, but they are going to make Cox what it takes to put a winner up. Freeman and prospects plus the wild card, Lowe. Atlanta gets Cabrera plus Mags and unload their 6th starter. The Braves get a prime right handed hitter in his prime and an expiring contract. They have several prospects coming up that will not go, like Heyward. It won't happen, but just like this post, made me think.

If I was a Gm I want Pablebon , Redick. 3 prospects for Cabrea

Cabrera to oakland

Andrew Bailey
Mike Wuertz
Brett Wallace
Grant Greene
Trevor Cahill
Vin Mazzaro

If this were one year from now, and the Tigers payroll was around $60M heading into 2011 (which it will be), would anyone suggest trading one of the premier players in the game? Absolutely not.

The only smart thing for the Tigers to do would be to keep Cabrera, lock up Verlander, and trade as many of the guys with one year left on their contracts (Inge, Ordonez, Willis, Robertson, Bonderman) as they can for prospects.

Even if they have to pay most of the money owed to those guys, it doesn't matter because then at least they get something in return. As it stands now, they're going to pay ALL the money owed to those guys and get nothing from them.

Go ahead and chalk up 2010 as a lost year, and aim for better things in 2011-12.

First and foremost Detroit doesn't have to make a trade just for the sake of making a trade with close to $60 million coming off the books in 2011. It is good business to listen to listen to all and any trade offers. Only trade Granderson, Cabrera if you get absolutely blown away. Collecting an aging vet and an expensive arbitration eligble closer in papelbon just doesn't make sense

1.) With the abudance of closers on the markert Detroit should be able to sign a closer on the cheap. Wouldn't mind signing Lyon for say two years 9 million then hand job to Ryan Perry who was drafted to be their future closer.

2.) While i think Jackson pitched over his head this year he is still a very valuable commodity who I think would be dominate in the NL. With Arizona looking for pitching how about Jackson and say a top prospect like Cale Iorg. I know Iorg regressed this year but was probably their top non-pitching propect at the beginning of season Stephen Drew. Drew would be under Tigers control for 3 years I know Arizona must value Drew highly or they wouldn't have selected him number one but that is a nice big three of Haren, Webb and Jackson.

2.) Judging from Theo Epstein's comments it seem's like he was very surprised that Granderson might be available. I say trade Granderson and Nate Roberston for Ellsbury and Tazawa (Pitcher that Detroit tried to sign from Japan). While they don't get they return they might get from other teams they alleviate some of the payroll concerns by sox taking on Robertson and giving them a possibly long man/lefty in bullpen.

3.) Hold onto Cabrera and sign Verlander long tern this season with his salary season under his probably arbitration number this season and trending upward. You are never far away from contending with Verlander, Porcello and Cabrera to build around.

4.) While I love Polanco i think he is time to give up on a player a year early then a year too late which has been the case with Guillen and Ordonez. Give the inexpensive Sizemore a chance.

5.) Rotation would look something like:

Verlander
Porcello
Bonderman
Gallaraga
Tazawa/ Wait til the market dies down and try to sign a Sheets or Bedard type to an incentive laden deal if available.

Lineup:

SS Drew
2b Sizemore
RF Ordonez
1B Cabrera
DH Guillen
LF Raburn
C Avila
3B Inge
CF Ellsbury

Bench:

ss/2b Santiago
c sign a cheap vet
3b/1b Larish
OF Ramirez

Bullpen:

Miner
Zumaya if Healthy
Perry
Ni
Seay
Sign Putz
Sign Lyon

Would Trade Laird who will probaly earn around 3.5 in arb for a bullpen arm of 5th starter who has some upside after a down year.

This would allow the Tigers to contend in the Central and save them around $20 million this season. Juzst a thought from a lot of rambling.

4.) This would save the Tigers

"Rosenthal speculates one possible trade scenario to Boston, an exchange of Cabrera for Jonathan Papelbon, Mike Lowell, and a solid prospect such as Lars Anderson or Stolmy Pimentel."

The Red Sox already have one slugger who's too fat to play n the field. Why would they want another?

Ken Rosenthal premises his proposal on Detroit's need to clear payroll, but his proposal would be unlikely to lower the Tigers' payroll in 2010.

Miguel Cabrera's 2010 salary of $20 million would be offset by Mike Lowell's $12 million salary and Jonathan Papelbon's arbitration-year salary working off his 2009 salary of $6.25 million.

In two years the trade would leave the Tigers with the Stolmy Pimental and the struggling Lars Anderson. Detroit won't trade a producing six-year asset for that long-term return.

If the Braves offered Freeman and Schafer in the deal, the Tigers would have to seriously consider it. Schafer could replace Granderson immediately and Freeman is a legit top 20 spec.

Unless the Tigers are in absolute dire need to cut payroll, long term as well as short, then there's no way they trade Cabrera. He might make gobs and gobs of cash but he is their best hitter and the ONLY hitter they can count on to post superb numbers year in year out. He's a legit .300/.380 35 hr guy. The fact that he is best suited to DH takes away some of the luster but he is easily one of the top 5-8 pure hitters in the game today.

La Senorita, how about Granderson and Jackson and say a Ryan Strieby for Reyes, F Mart and Niese.

"that is a ridiculous proposal by rosenthal.

cabrera has been a top 10 player in the league for like 4 years now and hes only 26. to get him should cost more than halladay or gonzales. he is the equivalent of felix hernandez for a hitter. one of the best at such a young age.

Posted by: Timmy B"

One little difference Timmy, Felix doesn't make no where near the amount Cabrera does. Teams still have to pay for these players.

The thing is if Cabrera was a free agent right now there would be only a few teams that would even be able to pay him his salary, even if it only cost them what they had to pay him salary wise.

Mike Lowell could DH play 1st and 3rd

BostonsFuture: Because Mike Lowell has all of 4 games played in his pro career at 1B--all at AAA in 1998.

giving up cabrera for a year of salary relief would go down in history as one of the worst moves ever

If I were Minaya, I would try hard.. VERY HARD.. to work out a deal with the Tigers to acquire both Edwin Jackson & Miguel Cabrera.

- Mets can offer 1b) Ike Davis, OF)F-Mart, 2b) Luis Castillo, and pitchers Jon Niese & Bobby Parnell.

Lineup:

1. O. Hudson-2b
2. J. Reyes-SS
3. M. Cabrera-1b
4. D. Wright- 3b
5. C. Beltran- CF
6. J. Franceour-RF
7. O. Santos- C
8. A. Pagan(for now)-LF

Rotation

- Santana
- E. Jackson
- J. Marquis
- O. Perez
- M. Pelfrey

I can live with that

Are Mets fans illiterate? Seriously...

These are all crazy ideas. Detroit probably jumped the gun by a year or two in extending Cabrera at the level they did. Regardless, the contract exists and it makes it nearly impossible to trade him. Trading contracts of that magnitude is so hard that it just doesn't happen. If it does happen, the Yankees make it happen. Kevin Brown's $100+ million deal? The Yanks took it on. A-Rod's $252 million deal? The Yanks took it on. No other team is crazy enough
to take on that sort of deal and no team has the talent and the contracts to evenly trade with the Tigers besides the Yankees.
---------

Just to clarify. The Yanks took on a portion of the last two years of Brown's deal and even part of that was offset by whatever was owed to Weaver. In the end the Yanks maybe came out of pocket for another $8 mil above the 7 or 8 owed to Weaver. As for Arod, he was already a few years of his $252 deal with Texas before he was traded and even then Texas agreed to pay about $60 mil of what he had left.

"Trading contracts of that magnitude is so hard that it just doesn't happen. If it does happen, the Yankees make it happen. Kevin Brown's $100+ million deal? The Yanks took it on. A-Rod's $252 million deal? The Yanks took it on. No other team is crazy enough
to take on that sort of deal"

Mike Hampton says hi and Johan Santana would like to remind you that he would only go to the Mets if he had a new 137 Million deal on the table.

"Cobrasnake: Hernandez is also nearing free agency and could get 7/8 years and $200 million from the Yankees at around 26 or 27.

Posted by: cubs223425"

Yeah I understand that, my main point was just saying they are several teams that can afford the younger players right now. I know it wont be long before some of them become free agents and get paid a ton like Cabrera.

Still alot of teams just can't afford to pay that type of salary at all, even if it didn't cost them players/prospects in return...etc

Atleast pretty much every team can afford some of the younger players like King Felix and Adrian Gonzalez at the moment (salary wise).

I'm not saying Cabrera's not worth anything, just saying that even if they are willing to trade for him, that alot of the teams can't because of his current salary.