Olney On What's Facing The Yankees And Phillies

If the Yanks non-tender Wang, then the Brewers need to be first in line to give him a contract. Even with his recent injuries, I think he'd be a great fit for the NL.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yankees make a move for John Lackey.

I would be ecstatic if the Phils went after Beltre. Having a lineup next year with him will be insanity.

Rollins
Victorino
Utley
Howard
Werth
Ibanez
Beltre
Ruiz
Pitcher

yum.

Phils need to address their SP and RP needs. I'd love it if the Phils try and go after Sheets, Bedard or Harden. Getting one of the 3 will be a huge improvement. RP is going to be a tough one, though. There are a lot of options in the market, but I hope that the Phils go after the best for the price.

Lee
Hamels
Sheets/Bedard/Harden
Happ
Blanton

Resigning Pettitte is a given provided he still wants to pitch.5 WS rings in 8 WS he might decide to finally hang em up.

If Hughes and Joba are slated as SP in 2010 then NY will need a veteran BP arm .Rafael Soriano ?

What will happen to WS MVP Matsui and Damon is still a great unknown.

Lackey as a Yankee ? Just doesn't sound right .

I hope Pettitte stays, but if he retired I'd understand. You just won the World Series for the 5th time. If he did come back, I'd be comfortable giving him 2 years/$30 million. He's been that good for us. Really. That good.

I hope the Yanks don't sign Holliday or Lackey. I'd non-tender Wang and then re-sign him as a free agent to a team-friendly deal. 1 year/$1 million with incentives to hike it up to $5 million if he played REALLY well. If he's healthy, he's our 5th starter starter. I'd also be up for us placing Gaudin in the rotation or if Joba can pull it together, he could regain his starting job.

As for the outfield, I am unbelievably tempted to maintain the same lineup we had this year. I don't like any of the free agents for what they'll cost and Damon has been great for us, as has Matsui.

Yanks have about 40M coming off the books if you take the expiring contracts and subtract raises from that. They could easily bring in both Holliday and Lackey while adding a few other minor peices without even missing a beat.

Wish that there was a seperate Phillies topic. The comments will just get lost.

"I'd non-tender Wang and then re-sign him as a free agent to a team-friendly deal. 1 year/$1 million with incentives to hike it up to $5 million if he played REALLY well.

Posted by: BomberMan26

I would think if Wang is non-tendered there would be a lot of teams that would offer him more than a $1M base

BomberMan26

I tend to agree .Give Matsui and Damon 1 yr contracts .Let Ajax get some more Triple A experience.

Gaudin might be a servicable 5th starter
Ian Kennedy deserves a shot.
The only thing that needs tweaking is middle relief.

The Yanks will end up getting Holliday that most of us can agree on. I really don't see them getting Lackey though. I would not be surprised to see either Bedard or Harden end up in pinstripes though. I am interested in seeing if Hughes is in the bullpen or rotation next year and if he is in the rotation if he can bounce back from previous struggles.

"The Yanks will end up getting Holliday that most of us can agree on."

I kinda see the Mets giving the yanks a run for their money.

The Yanks should pursue Lackey, Holliday and Figgins - maybe even Bay too. Probably won't approach the half a BILLION dollars worth of total guaranteed contracts but they could commit to another $300m or so.

Why not? Nobody seems to care and adding those four guys would certainly improve your chances of winning in '10. A lineup of:

Figgins (CF)
Jeter (SS)
A-Rod (3B)
Tex (1B)
Holliday (LF)
Bay (RF)
Matsui (DH)
Posada (C)
Cano (2B)

You can trade Swisher and Cabrera to restock your farm system. Hold onto Gardner as a pinch runner/defensive replacement for Bay.

Then your rotation would look like:

Sabathia
Lackey
Burnett
Pettitte
Hughes/Chamberlain

Looks pretty good. Moving Swisher and Cabrera, letting Damon walk, and resigning Matsui to a lower base contract makes all this possible with only increasing your payroll by about $25m.

Why not? Just go for it. Remove any doubt of who will win the AL East before Christmas rolls around. The rest of baseball can all fight over the table scraps and then hope and pray that they get lucky in the post-season. It would be awesome for baseball to see this and it would keep with tradition.

07 - you signed the richest contract in baseball with A-Rod.
08 - you commit to half a billion dollars by signing the top 3 FA's
09 - you commit to another $300m+ by signing the 3 best positional players and the best pitcher

I know as a baseball fan that there is nothing better than the Yankees buying a WS again. And yes Yankee fans we get it. Every team is playing on a level field. Owners that don't spend $250m/year are all greedy bastards who could spend that money but choose to line their pockets with MLB's revenue sharing. Yankee management is just more committed to winning.

Yanks have about 40M coming off the books if you take the expiring contracts and subtract raises from that. They could easily bring in both Holliday and Lackey while adding a few other minor peices without even missing a beat.

Posted by: bbxxj | November 05, 2009 at 12:55 PM

They already have $166 million committed to next year before arb raises to Cabrera and (possibly) Wang. That also doesn't include any of their league min guys on the 40 man roster. After it's all said and done, I think they'll have close to $25 million to play with this offseason if they want to keep payroll near $200 million.

That said, I do think they land Chapman. Whether or not they choose to resign Damon to a short term deal, IMO, will fully depend on their belief in AJax to become an everyday ML'er starting in 2011. Personally, I don't think AJax has the skillset to play in NY everyday v. somewhere else where he can serve as a role player on a mediocre team. And that's why I ultimately think they sign Holliday to a Beltran-esque 7yr/$119 million dollar deal (even though I don't think he's worth that in the AL).

and by Ruiz, I of course meant Feliz.

"The Yanks will end up getting Holliday that most of us can agree on."

Call me crazy, but I don't see the Yankees making a run after Matt Holliday. I realize that Damon is a Scott Boras client, but I think he'll resign with the Yankees for 2 years/$24 million. That's my prediction.

Why Beltre over Ruiz? Beltre will almost certainly cost more and is basically the same player. I can't believe Beltre is still riding that one great year.

Posted by: AA | November 05, 2009 at 01:19 PM

Look at Beltre's home/away splits. Safeco was death to Adrian. He's still a very good baseball player and should be productive on both sides of the field for the next 3 or 4 years.

They are definately going to sign one of Lackey or Holliday. That is a done deal.

I think that they have to consider Damon or Matsui even if they sign Holliday and especially if they dont.

Matsui might take the opportunity to go back to Japan on top. I dont know that much about Japanese baseball, but I do think that he would be able to sign a multiyear deal for $10+ million a year. Especially after being the WS MVP.

Another OF/DH option would be Dye.

My money is that they sign Holliday, Damon (2 or 3 year deal), and either Bedard or Harden (probably Bedard). They will also bring back Pettitte and should look to resign Wang (his current commitment is too high for a guy that will likely miss significant time in 2010).

"bjsguess, don't be sour. this used to be a place where posters had intelligent baseball conversations..."

Sarcasm is no longer intelligent?

As a Yankee fan I'd like to thank the Phil's for a good WS. They are very good team all around. They need to focus on getting a SP and closer or perhaps make some move internally to fill the closer position.

For the Yanks: I am going to revisit an old one from last season. Likely not going to happen but lets look at this for a moment.
Cano under contract for 2 or 3 more years, cheap.

Cano, Cabera, Kennedy to the Dodgers for Kemp. Not sure if this would be too little, too much (I'm thinking too much, but) Cano and Melky are close friends. We all know 2nd is once again a huge hole for LA. Melky could fill the outdfield. Ian would be that #4/5 starter then need. With the exception of IK, Torre knows MC and RC.

The Yanks could then resign Damon for 2 yrs at $20mm or there about. Damon could take the DH role batting 2nd (if that makes sense. Kemp batting 5th following arod and before Posada. The Yanks can go out and sign Orlando Cabrera. Maybe something like 3 yrs for $36mm.

Only reason I bring this up again is the Yanks need an OF'r. Kemp in LF Ajax/Gardner in CF Swisher in RF.

The yanks could get what they need, the dodgers the same, the Yanks don't need to overpay for Holliday or Bay (neither of which I personally think fit and I happen to believe Cashman will stay away as well)

@TheDugout

nothing would make me more depressed than seeing Matt Kemp in pinstripes.

Cano had a great year - but who knows how he does when he's not hitting behind Jeter, Damon, Tex, A-Rod, Matsui, Swisher, and Posada or how he does in a pitchers park.

Cabrera is nowhere near as good as Kemp.

Kennedy? the last thing the Dodgers need is another head-case 25 year old kid in their bullpen.

"Sarcasm is no longer intelligent?"
Posted by: start_wearing_purple
---------------------
Sarcasm - as practiced by most people - is rarely intelligent, or funny.

SS-Jeter
RF-Swisher
1B-Teixeira
3B-Rodriguez
LF-Holliday
DH-Matsui
C-Posada
2B-Cano
CF-Cabrera

SP1-Sabathia
SP2-Burnett
SP3-Pettitte
SP4-Wang/Joba
SP5-Hughes

SU-Robertson
SU-Joba
Loogy-Marte
CP-God

Kemp for that package isn't anywhere near enough. Silly idea. Dodgers won't trade Kemp for that, or at all unless it is for a guy named Felix Hernandez.

Instead of Matt Kemp, why not look at names like Brad Hawpe, Corey Hart, or even a guy we just faced, Jason Werth. All of them play with a boat load of character/talent and can be obtained for the right price.

let's not forget that Cano was 6th in AL batting this season. Not a fluke. I think all but one season he batted above .300. I'm not looking at the numbers at the moment. Many (not me) look at him winning a batting title, plus his D has been great. So no I don't think it's silly. I'm ok keeping him. But it's a trade that works.

Souvenir, Brad Hawpe is intriguing. I have no idea what would be needed to make it work however. No to Werth. Great guy. Big bat, But not seeing him behind Arod in the line-up.

Cano, Cabera, Kennedy to the Dodgers for Kemp. Not sure if this would be too little, too much (I'm thinking too much, but) Cano and Melky are close friends. We all know 2nd is once again a huge hole for LA. Melky could fill the outdfield. Ian would be that #4/5 starter then need. With the exception of IK, Torre knows MC and RC.

Posted by: TheDugout | November 05, 2009 at 01:56 PM

Great. Another offseason of this bullshit.

I'm not saying that Kemp gets you Felix, I'm saying that the Dodgers won't want to move Kemp at all unless they included him in a package for Felix. For Kemp, the Dodgers would START with AJax, maybe Cano (not sure how much value he would have) and probably 2 of their other top prospects.

^ I disagree, but I'll put it to bed for the moment. your valuing Kemp far too high in my opinion.

hey brocmiller1 - got any other suggestions? what do you care. if you don't like what you read, skip over dick.

I'm not saying that Kemp gets you Felix, I'm saying that the Dodgers won't want to move Kemp at all unless they included him in a package for Felix. For Kemp, the Dodgers would START with AJax, maybe Cano (not sure how much value he would have) and probably 2 of their other top prospects.

Posted by: worldchamps08 | November 05, 2009 at 02:24 PM

Word. I'm pickin' up what you're puttin' down. I would have for them to do that, but these doucher Yanks fans neen to get with it and realize that Kemp has a TON of value. Top 3 defensive CFers in baseball. 360 OBP 500 SLG 35 steals. Kid does it all. Cano isn't nearly enough to be a centerpiece. And, again, I don't want them to, and I think there is 0% chance they trade MK27.

Chone Figgins hasnt played in the OF since the '06 season and even then he had a -9.1 UZR/150 in CF.. So no thank you

Holliday is a solid player, over the past three seasons he has a 10.7 UZR/150 in LF which is 2nd best in the ML during that time span defensively. Look the guy is young, he can hit and plays a great LF. I say sign him for 4yrs and call it a day.

I think tendering wang is a good idead and then resign him to a minor league contract and see what he can give you and then trade him.

As for Lackey, I know a few people are upset at the way he was reacting during the playoffs, but the man is competitive and he can pitch when it counts. I'm not sure if Pettite will retire but if he does, they need to pick up lackey as well as go after Chapman.

I think for a cheap defensive player we can go after Cameron from the brewers. the man can still play great at CF or you can shift him to RF. He was good friends with CC when they were teammates.

As much as I couldnt stand Cano at the plate this post season. I dont think the yanks will use that to trade him.. I believe last year there was talks about sending him to the dodgers, but nothing ever happen to it. Also picking up Cabrera and have him playing 2nd wouldnt be a good idea. We need to get younger fellas not older..

*Cano*

"The Yanks should pursue Lackey, Holliday and Figgins - maybe even Bay too. Probably won't approach the half a BILLION dollars worth of total guaranteed contracts but they could commit to another $300m or so.

Why not? Nobody seems to care and adding those four guys would certainly improve your chances of winning in '10. A lineup of:

Figgins (CF)
Jeter (SS)
A-Rod (3B)
Tex (1B)
Holliday (LF)
Bay (RF)
Matsui (DH)
Posada (C)
Cano (2B)

You can trade Swisher and Cabrera to restock your farm system. Hold onto Gardner as a pinch runner/defensive replacement for Bay.

Then your rotation would look like:

Sabathia
Lackey
Burnett
Pettitte
Hughes/Chamberlain

Looks pretty good. Moving Swisher and Cabrera, letting Damon walk, and resigning Matsui to a lower base contract makes all this possible with only increasing your payroll by about $25m.

Why not? Just go for it. Remove any doubt of who will win the AL East before Christmas rolls around. The rest of baseball can all fight over the table scraps and then hope and pray that they get lucky in the post-season. It would be awesome for baseball to see this and it would keep with tradition.

07 - you signed the richest contract in baseball with A-Rod.
08 - you commit to half a billion dollars by signing the top 3 FA's
09 - you commit to another $300m+ by signing the 3 best positional players and the best pitcher

I know as a baseball fan that there is nothing better than the Yankees buying a WS again. And yes Yankee fans we get it. Every team is playing on a level field. Owners that don't spend $250m/year are all greedy bastards who could spend that money but choose to line their pockets with MLB's revenue sharing. Yankee management is just more committed to winning."

Wow man...Whine a little more. Just accept the fact that the Yankees can spend more, and get better players! There really is no point in bitching because really who cares about what you have to say :)

"I've just felt all along, including last season Matt Kemp makes a lot of sense for the Yanks and believe it or not the Yank's actually have the pieces to make it work well for the Dodgers. The dodgers could walk out with 3, perhaps 4 solid players. Maybe Cano, Cabrera and two lower level pitching prospects. You'd have to think the dodgers look at it for a moment. Their revolving door of an infield just has not helped them the last two seasons. The Yanks could go after O Cabrera. He can play short too, which in 2 or 3 years may become a factor in NY. Just a thought. "

matt kemp makes alot of sense for everyone. the dodgers would never trade him for the cano cabrera and ian kennedy. sure cano is a great player but kemp is a gold glove candidate and an offensive force. ned colletti hangs up on cashman on that phone call

I think that the Kemp/Cano trade is really silly. I am a Yankee fan but that doesnt cloud me from Kemps value. I stopped reading the post when it was suggested that the Yankees sign Cabrera for $12 million a year. I know that we overpay for players but it is pretty rare that the Yankees intentially downgrade a position.

The Yankees have a great offensive outfield and it is mediocre defensively. The goal should be to bring in Holliday and move Damon to DH. Then sign a starter. If Pettitte is not back, they will ahve 10 to 12 million to spend on a starter (Chapman) and they will also need to look at Lackey (who is the best pitcher on the FA market) or Harden and Bedard. While Lackey appears healthier then Harden, the both have the same numbers of starts that last 2 years (51) and Harden's ERA is better (3.05 to 3.79). Add to it that Harden has not had arm trouble in two years (while Lackey has) and the case can be made that Harden is the better bet and a potential bargin this offseason.

JUST SAY NO TO LACKEY and any of the others mentioned.

The Yanks should trade for Felix Hernandez. I know its a block buster but he is young and approaching free agency.

I would also trade for BJ Upton to be the left fielder. He's young and in mature but I think he will have good role models in the Bronx. CC, Mo Rivera, etc.

beltre would be a perfect fit here in philly. His power numbers struggled in seattle, but fit him into the phils lineup and it would be unreal. I got excited when i knew he was a free agent during the regular season. 3base is the only offensive soft spot in the phils deadly lineup. Add Beltre, a potential power hitting Right hander in a lineup with utley, howard, ibanez, and werth and that becomes a nightmare for R or L pitchers. Beltre is actually known around the leage as a great defensive player as well, which is the ONLY positive trait for pedro feliz.
Phils are 7th biggest market. In terms of real money, im not sure how much ruben amaro is going to want to keep spending, since the core group--Utley, Howard, and Rollins have to be a future consideration when their contracts expire. We hope they throw out big bucks this offseason for Lee and Werth, which I think is a great possibility.
One player who i love but i think will fall into the business of baseball--victorino. He increased his trade value this season, and the phils have John Mayberry, Jr, Domonic Brown, and Michael Taylor (the latter 2 the phils wouldnt even consider trading to toronto for Roy Halladay) waiting as top outfielding prospects. I dont think they'll be able to keep both werth and victorino, so it might come down to a financial decision--a multi-year deal with werth is going to be significantly more money than victorino. anyway, onward and upward--keep spending money phils, and maybe in a couple years we can buy a championship

I think Beltre would be a great fit for the Phils. Feliz's biggest contribution to the team is his defense, but Beltre is just as good or better defensively and has a better bat. I also think the Phils should go after Jerry Hairston JR. to replace Eric Bruntlett.

the yankees will let matsui walk to open up the dh for damon if they resign him and posada when he's not catching...as for the outfield i think they'll be in the running for jason bay i don't see em in the holliday running.

If the Phillies got Figgins I think Manuel would bat him 2nd and move Victorino down to 7th

I don't see why the Yanks would go after Holliday. He's not that much of an improvement over Damon and will require a bigger, longer contract.

Posted by: ThinkBlue | November 05, 2009 at 12:53 PM
----------

Offensively they are close but defensively, Holliday is an upgrade. That being said, I would rather go with Damon than to fork over another $100 mil to a 30 yr old OF.

He certainly has room for "IMprovement"......

There are a number of different directions the Yankees can go, which makes the off-season interesting for me. :-)

Here is what I think...

Matsui has been great and I have really enjoyed his play the last 7 or so years... but there's not much of a spot for him on the roster from here on out. Like it or not, we can't really afford even a semi-long term (2 years or more) log jam at the DH spot, especially with players like Posada getting up there in age. I would definitely put some serious thought into trying to get him to come back for ONLY 1 more year, but I just don't think it will happen.

However, in the scenario that Matsui doesn't accept a 1 year deal and departs from the team... a gaping hole is created in the lineup. That's the one thing I still don't know what I'd do about (besides the Hughes situation... see below). Matt Holliday? I'm leaning toward no. Too much money, and I just don't think he's "superstar" material. I know a hundred people may disagree with me, but I wasn't overly impressed when he came over to the American League to play in the first half of the season. A little bit of a red flag that he goes back to the National league and starts playing great again. So I don't really know what I'd do about that hole in the lineup.

Damon, however, can still play left field if you need him to. I would look to bring him back for 1 or 2 more years (no more than that, though). If that did happen, than I'd split time at DH between him and Posada, mixed in with all the other starters every now and then.

Now for pitching. JOBA IN THE BULLPEN. Ahemmm. Haha anyways, I really don't know what I'd do with Hughes though. Part of me is saying give him a shot in the starting rotation. Part of me is saying the bullpen is his better suit. I really don't know, so I'd need a lot of time to think about that. I think a lot will depend on who we get in free agency/trades.

I would definitely offer Pettitte arbitration and would hope he accepts. But I think he's going to hang the cleats up, which sucks because I'd like to see him come back for 1 more year.

Even if Pettitte resigns, the Yankees still need another starter. As stated elsewhere... I do NOT want John Lackey or Rich Harden. They're good, but I don't want them. The Yanks need 4th starter material, we don't need a number 1 guy for a number 1 price. And I just have a funny feeling those two guys wouldn't fit well on the team and/or get hurt (especially in Harden's case). I'd take a guy like Garland or Marquis instead. Mediocre (especially in Garland's case), yes, but eat innings and do it semi-effectively? I'd take it. Not everybody has to be a superstar shut-out pitcher. We need roll players in the rotation too.

Maybe I would also take a look at Sheets and Washburn (I heard he hurt his knee late in the season). If they check out medically, maybe I could try to get them on a small deal (even though Washburn is a Boras client, so that might not work out haha). And I would seriously look at Aroldis Chapman. I don't know much about him, but the hype is there and from what I've read, he seems like a big deal. Though I would start him in the minor leagues first.

I'm fine with Chad Gaudin being the number 5 starter.

As far as the bullpen goes... I would get one veteran arm for setup relief. Call me crazy, but I was impressed by Chan Ho Park in the World Series. He had a good overall year, too. A lot of people might not agree with it, but I wouldn't mind seeing Cashman bring him in for a year or 2. I think a veteran presence (besides Mo) would help the young setup guns a lot.

Anyway, that's what I think. I still am up in the air with a few things (Hughes role, as well as how to replace Matsui's bat in the lineup), but nobody's perfect.

The Yankees signing Figgins and then keeping Matsui has a bat off the bench would be great.