Discussion: The Orioles’ Next Move

When the Orioles fired manager Dave Trembley on Thursday, it represented the club's first major shake-up, and Peter Schmuck of the Baltimore Sun hopes it won't be the last. Schmuck writes that, no matter who is managing the O's, changes need to be made to the team's roster. He advocates trading away many of the team's veterans and focusing on player development for the rest of the season.

In his blog post this morning, ESPN.com's Buster Olney quoted a talent evaluator who thought the Orioles might be better off hanging on to older players such as Kevin Millwood, Ty Wigginton, and Luke Scott, to help stabilize the clubhouse. And, as Schmuck notes, Orioles president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail doesn't seem ready to give up on the current roster quite yet:

"I'm still hopeful we can end up with a better record than we had last year,'' said MacPhail. "I still want to move that needle…. Obviously we've handicapped ourselves greatly, but I think getting our players healthy will help us in that regard."

Still, with no chance of contending this season in a stacked AL East, and prospects like Josh Bell and Jake Arrieta close to being ready, revamping the roster seems like the logical next step for the Orioles. Schmuck suggests that the ideal approach would be dealing the aforementioned veterans (plus Miguel Tejada), giving a few young players a shot in the majors, and aggressively diving into the free agent market this coming offseason. If you were running the Orioles, would you do things differently?


29 Responses to Discussion: The Orioles’ Next Move Leave a Reply

  1. 04Forever 5 years ago

    pretty ugly choices for the future for the orioles, they dont have much to trade and prospects arent doing to much either

  2. Wieters hasnt taken the next logical step in his progression yet. The offense on the team isnt terrible, the young starters have great potential and a couple tweaks to the bullpen this team has a chance at .500 in the very near future. I think they are headed in the right direction. Teams that blow it up every year, trading vets for prospects and then trading those prospects when they become vets stay in the vicious cycle of mediocrity. Baltimore is an historically awesome great baseball town, I hope they can once again be competitive out east.

  3. Trade the Vets. If the O’s are gonna suck, why not suck with some prospects getting a chance to learn how to play in the majors. who knows maybe they need some frsh faces in the club house that can bring a spark. it would be nice.

  4. BradyAndersonsSideburns 5 years ago

    Where do I begin?

  5. JTrea81 5 years ago

    At this point the Orioles can take two directions – sell off everything, or become buyers to boost the anemic offense in the second half. The only veteran player that they could trade and get something good back would be Nick Markakis, and I don’t think they are going there. So then the Orioles need to look at the premium bats available like Prince Fielder and try to acquire one. It would be unpredicented for a losing team to buy at the deadline, but we aren’t buying to compete, rather to build for 2011 and beyond. And if you want a vocal leader in the clubhouse, Fielder is your guy. It would be a gutsy move and Fielder isn’t coming cheap in terms $ in an extension or in # of players as one or both of Tillman and Arrieta would have to be dealt to get him, but it would send a message that the Orioles are sick of losing and want to win in the second half and beyond.

    • Omar Minaya is that you? Why are you giving advice to other teams? fielder for the orioles would be horrible…lmao, I think they can get a pretty good return from trading Wigginton and Millwood. Just start over and rebuild, thats the only thing they can do…

  6. BradyAndersonsSideburns 5 years ago

    Release Atkins, Lugo and Albers
    Look into trades of Tejada, Wigginton, Scott, Millwood, Guthrie, Hendrickson, Ohman. Don’t trade Guthrie or Millwood unless overwhelmed, as they are the team MVPs at this point in the season and are the sole reason that the O’s even have double digit wins at this point. They also are the only reason that the bullpen’s arms haven’t fallen off yet. Not only that but Guthrie is relatively cheap and isn’t exactly old so there isn’t a huge rush to trade him. The picks that the O’s would get back from letting Millwood walk at the end of the season would be enough value to consider hanging on to him unless blown away I think.
    Draft Taillon if he is available.
    Let go of Crowley. Please.
    Let the young talent on the farm play in the bigs. Sure, Bell and Arrieta will experience some bumps, it’s expected, this season is a wash anyway, let them come up and get the experience so that they are better prepared for next year.
    Test the interest in Adam Jones around the league. He has all of the potential in the world but until he stops swinging at everything within a half mile of Camden Yards he isn’t going to amount to much of anything. The reality is he has produced well for about 2 or 3 months of his major league career. I prefer Pie over Jones in center anyway and hope that he gets consistant playing time once he comes off of the DL.
    Sign a big bat in the offseason. Atkins does not equal a big bat. I think Adam Dunn is the type of hitter they need, someone that will actually scare opposing pitching.

    • Steve_in_MA 5 years ago

      After watching the last two games, I particularly like the first line of your suggestions. I would move Ohman from the second line to the first. I winced with pain for Baltimore, and particularly for Guthrie, as I watched Ohman dissemble on the mound. The faster you get these 4 off your roster, the better.

      I was shocked at how poor a showing Wieters has made so far. I mean he literally seemed to jump out of the way of a ball in the dirt, instead of blocking it, botched an attempted throw to second on a steal (not that he would have gotten Pedroia, but just seemed flummoxed) and really has regressed some at the plate. I wonder if he’s been rushed a bit and might benefit from taking some of the everyday pressure off of him.

      If your closer, Simon, can come back off the DL and prove healthy, there might be some trade interest in him, or, you may have plans to keep him.

      Would love to see an Oriole resurgence. Good luck.

      • I can’t comment on the things you saw in Wieters regarding his defense because I didn’t see them but, in his defense, he’s been very good behind the plate all year. He has allowed only one passed ball and throws out 33% of base stealers. He’s playing at a high level behind the plate. I think his bat will come around sooner rather than later; it’s well known here in Baltimore that he’s immensely dedicated to mastering his knowledge of hitters and defensive prowess.

      • I can’t comment on the things you saw in Wieters regarding his defense because I didn’t see them but, in his defense, he’s been very good behind the plate all year. He has allowed only one passed ball and throws out 33% of base stealers. He’s playing at a high level behind the plate. I think his bat will come around sooner rather than later; it’s well known here in Baltimore that he’s immensely dedicated to mastering his knowledge of hitters and defensive prowess.

  7. Too bad the Orioles dont play in a different division :( If the Orioles do make a deal, they need to be damn sure the players coming back can help the big club eventually. Of the young players, the Orioles need the majority of them to hit, and hit well. If Wieters can quit being a black hole offensively, and a few other players continue hitting well, let’s play. I’m a twins fan, maybe the orioles and my team could get together on a wigginton deal, so I never have to see Punto full time ever again

  8. bjsguess 5 years ago

    Is there really a choice here?If any of the vets (Millwood, Tejada, etc) are still on the roster by the end of the year this team will have totally screwed up. Move them now. In most cases you won’t net anything but salary relief. However, you can probably scrape together $20m or so in savings if you act now.This concept of improving over last year is idiotic. I’ve heard this time and time again. So what if you win 3 more games than you did in 09? Is that really better than losing 3 more games than you did in 09 but socking away an extra $20m that you can use on amateur players or next years FA crop?Teams need to realize that there is nothing different about a team that wins 68 games and a team that wins 75 games. Unless you are playing 500 ball you are hardly respectable. Cut your losses and make moves that make sense for next year and beyond. I really had thought that the O’s had turned a corner and realized this. Sounds like they still have a ways to go.

    • Red_Line_9 5 years ago

      The only difference in a 5 win improvement if made in the second half might be an increase in attendence. If the Orioles are looking at bottoming out in ticket sales in August-September it might not hurt them to go out and do something to wina few games to create excitement.

      I totally disagree that this would be the right thing to do…..from a baseball-side standpoint. But we’re not writing the checks. Surely, they’ll let the kids play. But so many decisions get made from every perspective BUT what would be good for the team on the field.

  9. ReverendBlack 5 years ago

    Next move is to petition for placement in a different division.

  10. 1) Trade Wigginton, Scott, Milwood, Tejada
    2) Decide whether Riemold or Pie is your LF, trade the other one
    3) Call up Bell, let him see the field
    4) Tell Adam Jones to get over himself
    5) Draft Tallion if available, if not then Machado or Pomeranz
    6) Sign a high-character player that can lead the team that produces (Think Adrian Gonzalez)
    7) Get anybody, and I mean ANYBODY that can play shortstop

    • I love the idea of Gonzalez but he isn’t a free agent till 2012 same as Prince Fielder and with the Padres playing good ball they won’t let him go right now. I say try and pry Fielder away from the Brewers right now yes we should be sellers but that gives us the chance to sign him long term and than give him a 10 year deal to secure him long term. If not try and pry Gonzo away in the off-season but it is going to take a lot of talent to acquire him. Yes get a shortstop that maybe can hit?

    • niched 5 years ago

      1) Scott is not that good of a trade chip. Everyone knows he’s very streaky. He might even bring back a player of slightly lesser value than himself. I think it’s better to keep Scott for now since he’s fairly young and one of the few guys on the team showing any power. Miguel Tejada would bring back next to nothing in a trade. He’s been terrible lately. Wigginton and Millwood would bring back a bit in a trade, but not that much, except maybe in a package. If the Orioles want to trade for good players, they’ll have to trade a good, younger player like Guthrie and maybe one or two of their rookie/second year pitchers (e.g. Hernandez, Bergesen, etc).

      2) What do you mean decide whether Reimold or Pie is your LF? Reimold is at AAA and Pie is on the 60 day DL. Thus far, neither guy is their starting LF, and neither has any trade value.

      3) Bell is not ready to be called up. He has been OK at AAA, but hardly that good. Bringing a player up too soon could be detrimental to his development.

      4) Tell Adam Jones to get over himself? Why, because he’s humble and works hard? Jones is an excellent human being who may or may not be the CF of their future. It may be that he’s a fourth outfielder, not a starter. Time will tell.

      5) Yes, I’m with you here, though Machado plays the position they really need help at (SS).

      6) Adrian Gonzalez is not a free agent soon, nor would the Padres be trading him any time soon since they lead the NL West. Any other players you have in mind?

      7) I’m with you here, but it’s not like a lot of guys are available at the moment. Cesar Izturis is not bad shortstop, he’s just not having one of his better years and he’s not a guy with any power. Of course the O’s need a long term solution at shortstop, and I’m hopeful they’ll get one between the middle of this season and the beginning of next (maybe Machado, or maybe they’ll trade for someone).

  11. I would move some veterans and some of the young talent also to land that big bat possibly Prince Fielder and than lock him up long term. Than in the offseason sign Carl Crawford to a long term deal while also trying to land a new short stop that can hit. The only problem to revamp in the offseason are most of the players on the market are getting up in age. We could wait and not trade for Fielder and sign Pena but will turn 33 next season verses Fielder who will be only 27. The starters on the market are up in age and could fill in for a few years but nothing to special out there more stopgap pitchers and if thats the case we might as well give Millwood an extension.

  12. johnsilver 5 years ago

    Earl Weaver would have a hard time fixing this mess. Ownership that is gunshy since the Bell signing towards FA’s, being “stuck” in the AL East with overall poor managers since Weaver left almost 25 years ago. Bad overall bottom feeding on lower tier FA’s they have signed (with a few exceptions). This team just looks like needs to continue to focus (and heavily spend) on the draft and hope, much like Tampa did in the previous years and see if can finally have a few years worth of decency to show for the past 15 years worth of overall horrible teams.

    Shame to, since this was a great and proud team that really enjoyed back when it was ALWAYS a 3 team race, every year with the NYY, O’s and Red Sox and really miss those times. Thank you Angelos for screwing things up.

  13. Trious 5 years ago

    The O’s have so much work that it isn’t even funny

    They need a massive reconstruction of their minor league system. They need to stop over-paying for older players and they need to make a few nice FA signings. A mix of good minor league systems and solid FA signings could see them compete for a wild card spot

  14. niched 5 years ago

    Pitying the Orioles for playing in the AL East and suggesting they move elsewhere rings phoney. Similar notions have been raised before about Tampa Bay and Toronto, both of whom are competing neck and neck with the Yankees and Red Sox this season.

    The Orioles problems are solveable, but the idea that they would show major improvements this season was totally misguided. They barely have a major league infield, their young outfielders are struggling between poor hitting and injuries, their star catcher needs more time to develop, and their bullpen needs an overhaul (which will happen when more of their young pitching talent shows its ready to make the jump to the majors). The one bright spot has been the starting pitching, but that too has struggled of late.

    Andy MacPhail has done a pretty good job assembling the pitching staff (who knew half the bullpen would be struggling with injury the way they have), but he doesn’t seem to devote nearly as much concern to the position players. There was no reason to think the Orioles would not have to deal with injuries this season, and the injuries to Roberts and Pie are exposing the O’s woefull lack of depth in the lineup. Moreover, there was little reason to believe that Adam Jones would hit like Torii Hunter or Eric Davis this year. Jones has not yet shown he is more than a 4th outfielder. He might turn into an excellent hitter, but he struggled the whole second half of last season; not a good sign.

    As bad as the O’s have been, they have been lucky that Guthrie, Wigginton and Millwood have performed so well this year. While nearly every young player on the team has regressed or badly slumped to some degree, and every other veteran on the team looks like they are near retirement, these three guys are holding their own. Millwood and Wigginton will probably not bring back much in the way of a trade, but Guthrie may be their best trade chip if they are to bring back a promising young shortstop or first baseman. Maybe Guthrie and a young pitcher to the Mets for Wilmer Flores and a lesser prospect or to the Dodgers for Dee Brown and another player. We’d rather the O’s didn’t trade Guthrie since he is still pretty young and gives the O’s solid innings; but I can’t see how they avoid trading Guthrie and maybe at least one or two of their young promising pitchers (e.g. Hernandez, Bergesen, Berken or Tillman) if they want to bring a promising young infielder or two back. The O’s won’t be trading Matusz, Arrieta or Britton, nor will they be trading Wieters, unless they are absolutely blown away. Markakis is looking more tradeable in my opinion, which was unthinkable as recently as a month a ago, but if they traded him now I think they would be selling low. Markakis has not been bad this year, but he hasn’t been great either.

    After the draft happens, the O’s will have a better idea of what they’re dealing with. Hopefully they’ll get stud young shortstop Manny Machado in the draft, but that doesn’t mean they still shouldn’t trade for one or two good young infielders. There is no guarantee Josh Bell will be their future third baseman, Brandon Snyder is looking less and less like their future first baseman, and their second baseman is getting older and has been on the DL most of the season. The O’s need promising young infielders galore, and another one or two promising young outfielders wouldn’t hurt either.

    And what they don’t get in the way of promising young players through the draft or trades, MacPhail has got to stop flailing and failing miserably in the free agent market. Wigginton has been a nice surprise this year (after a weak year last year), but Atkins, Uehara and Gonzalez have been total disasters so far. And even Miguel Tejada is stating to look like a poor signing. I’m sorry Andy, but it’s the free agent market, not the “has been” market. Peter Angelos once signed Albert Belle to the most expensive league contract of the time, so Angelos has shown he is willing to spend in the past (though it was the distant past). Of course we don’t want the next Albert Belle on the team, but we need some decent free agents on the O’s, and not just reclamation projects and role players.

  15. It’s pretty much common knowledge that the Orioles won’t truly reap the benefits of MacPhail’s influence until 2012 or so. I mean, Wieters and Matusz will only be 26 and 25, respectively, by then. I know, it sucks to hear but it’s the reality of the situation.

  16. It’s pretty much common knowledge that the Orioles won’t truly reap the benefits of MacPhail’s influence until 2012 or so. I mean, Wieters and Matusz will only be 26 and 25, respectively, by then. I know, it sucks to hear but it’s the reality of the situation.

  17. I’m all for drafting Manny Machado but it’s never a bad idea to draft a pitcher. As the old adage goes, you grow arms and buy bats.

  18. I’m all for drafting Manny Machado but it’s never a bad idea to draft a pitcher. As the old adage goes, you grow arms and buy bats.

  19. It makes perfect sense. However, most Orioles fans are so hungry to win that they kidded themselves that the team was NOW READY TO WIN this year when, in fact, that is asking a lot out of a group of inexperienced young players and mediocre veteran stopgaps regularly competing against world-class rosters like NY, BOS, and TB.

    This club won’t really be legit until 2012 or 2013, if not 2014. Rebuilding an entire organization from the ground up (as MacPhail has set out to do) takes a long time. It’s not a three year endeavor.

  20. It makes perfect sense. However, most Orioles fans are so hungry to win that they kidded themselves that the team was NOW READY TO WIN this year when, in fact, that is asking a lot out of a group of inexperienced young players and mediocre veteran stopgaps regularly competing against world-class rosters like NY, BOS, and TB.

    This club won’t really be legit until 2012 or 2013, if not 2014. Rebuilding an entire organization from the ground up (as MacPhail has set out to do) takes a long time. It’s not a three year endeavor.

  21. niched 5 years ago

    Also, I didn’t realize it until just now, but Manny Machado is a high school player, which means he would not be ready until 2014 at the earliest. I was thinking he was a college player. In terms of their first round draft pick helping the O’s in the near future, it won’t be Machado or Taillon since both are high school players. The O’s should just go for the best player in the first round since neither will be helping the club for awhile. The O’s will need to trade for or sign new infielders over the next few years since all they have ready to come up soon from the minors is Josh Bell. But the O’s should not draft a college player unless he is the best player available. They should go for the best available in the first round even if he is a high schooler.

  22. niched 5 years ago

    Also, I didn’t realize it until just now, but Manny Machado is a high school player, which means he would not be ready until 2014 at the earliest. I was thinking he was a college player. In terms of their first round draft pick helping the O’s in the near future, it won’t be Machado or Taillon since both are high school players. The O’s should just go for the best player in the first round since neither will be helping the club for awhile. The O’s will need to trade for or sign new infielders over the next few years since all they have ready to come up soon from the minors is Josh Bell. But the O’s should not draft a college player unless he is the best player available. They should go for the best available in the first round even if he is a high schooler.

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