Yankees Rumors: Soria, Dunn, Lilly

11:23am: The Yankees dangled Jesus Montero in talks for Joakim Soria, reports ESPN's Jayson Stark, but the Royals weren't interested.

7:31am: SI's Jon Heyman dished Yankees rumors in yesterday's column…

  • The Yankees "made a big proposal" for Soria. With three club options, the 26-year-old righty is under team control through 2014.  Had Soria not signed a team-friendly extension in May of 2008, he'd be eligible for free agency after the 2012 season.  The only blemish on his record was missing most of May last year with a sore shoulder.  How do the Yankees and Royals match up?  You'd expect Dayton Moore to pursue Montero or Austin Romine, though the Royals already have Billy Butler and Wil Myers in the organization.
  • Heyman notes that the Yankees "have been in touch" with the Nationals about Adam Dunn, but "so far found the price prohibitive."  With six days until the trade deadline, will Mike Rizzo drop the price on Dunn?  Heyman also links the Yankees to familiar names Ty Wigginton, Jhonny Peralta, and Cody Ross.
  • Heyman doesn't see the Yankees going after Roy Oswalt, but tweets that they like Ted Lilly.  Teams like the Cubs and Astros have to hope the Diamondbacks' unimpressive return for Dan Haren doesn't have a ripple effect on their available starters.
  • Heyman tweets that the Yankees' offer for Haren consisted of righties Ivan Nova and Zach McAllister plus one or two prospects.  Baseball America viewed Nova and McAllister as future No. 4 types heading into the season.


151 Responses to Yankees Rumors: Soria, Dunn, Lilly Leave a Reply

  1. Guest 5 years ago

    Joba, McAllister, + 1 lower level for Soria?

    I don’t see Montero or Romine being included. I just don’t, not for a reliever.

    • twenty1thirteen 5 years ago

      I seriously doubt Soria would be going anywhere close to NY without Montero included in a package. I think people tend to forget that Soria seems to have much more value to the Royals than he would on the Yankees.

      • Guest 5 years ago

        No chance, buddy. What is this another Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay sweepstakes? The #5 prospect in baseball for a reliever. He ain’t Mo Rivera. I understand your excitement, seeing as Soria being one of the better things in the last 20 years. Frankly, this Royals team is not that bad. After watching them the last 4 games, they have a lot of good pieces to work with. Not sure why it can’t translate to winning. Management may need to be assessed.

        • twenty1thirteen 5 years ago

          Oh, I agree Soria might not be worth Montero, but the Royals don’t NEED to trade him, therefore I can see why they are asking the moon for him.

          And your’re correct, I just don’t understand how their front office operates. Dayton has been great in drafting the last few years, but a complete bonehead in FA signings and trades.

          • Guest 5 years ago

            Have to agree. I was actually shocked at the quality of some players on the team this past weekend. Their W/L column is not representitive of the actual team. Plus someone said over the weekend the Royals farm is pretty strong too. I understand your point. Neither team needs to make the move, but Dayton would be justified in moving Soria for an all “arms” package. If he could get three arms, then great. Joba would probably do well out there away from the spot light. As many have said, his numbers are still very, very good.

          • If Joba is moved, please convert him back to a starter. I almost hope he is traded to the NL so he can show all these NY fans how moronic they were to want him as a reliever.

          • money941 5 years ago

            I think the Joba as a starter/reliever is split 50/50 among fans honestly. Personally I think his place is still as a Starter, but that’s not going to happen this year as he would have to build up his arm strength yet again, but quite possibly could next year if Vasquez leaves and Pettite retires as the only 3 SP they would have would be CC, AJ, and Hughes which is another reason I don’t see Cashman including him in any deal.

          • No more University of Nebraska players please. They haven’t faired too well in KC.

          • MrYankeesBaseball101 5 years ago

            us Yankees fans know that he isnt good whether he is started or reliever.

          • The difference between Lee and Soria is not just starter v. reliever, but years of control. You would have a reasonable contract locked up for a great pitcher for a long time.

            Some other things: don’t overvalue your own farm system. Montero is rated highly because of his position, which most are beginning to believe he cannot play. Romine is good, but not great. Joba is the reason you would have to trade for Soria, so in my opinion, he has proven “not good enough” to be a centerpiece.

            And yes, the Royals field a competent team. It really is not that shocking. But make no mistake: that team does not have 80 win talent right now.

          • CosaOne 5 years ago

            Actually Montero is rated so high because of his bat not because of his position at all. If you read any of those top 100 lists they all say that he probably wont be a catcher but his bat is so impressive that they rank him top 5-10 regardless of his position. Its not as if Montero is a #7 prospect at catcher and the #45 at 1st base so please dont insinuate that. Hell if Montero was a lock to stay at catcher he would be the #1 prospect seeing how its very rare to find good catchers who are projected to have a bat like him

        • There’s no chance the Yanks get Soria without including including Montero or Romine. I know it’s a huge gamble, and you would hate to see either one included, but the fact is the Royals know the Yanks are looking to replace Mo. Soria has HUGE long term value for the Yanks and the Royals will look to cash in on that value.

          For this reason, I don’t see the Yanks getting Soria. The Royals will insist on Montero being included and the Yanks will not budge. I will, however, be shocked if Montero ever wears pinstripes. The temptation to trade him will be too great from now until he’s ready.

          • Guest 5 years ago

            you make a good point, but I still don’t see that happening.

      • Guest 5 years ago

        I think Soria has a ton of value for the Yankees.
        Not only do they desperately need a reliever right now (and Soria is one of the best), but they also need a replacement for Mo Rivera after next season (possibly/probably).

    • You must be smoking something really good my friend to even right the trade proposal.

    • Looks like you were wrong.

      • Guest 5 years ago

        Thanks for taking the time out of your day to point that out.

  2. Cyyoung 5 years ago

    Wow Yankees going in for the kill.

  3. Guest 5 years ago

    Yanks. Team is fine. Please stay aware from all the aforementioned names. Maybe Soria, but that’s only if the price is right. I’m watching the Yanks prospects almost daily at this point and good lord, man these guys have some serious talent in minors. Yanks are in the lead by a wide margin, they don’t need to do deals, just to do them.

    • twenty1thirteen 5 years ago

      “I’m watching the Yanks prospects almost daily at this point and good lord, man these guys have some serious talent in minors. Yanks are in the lead by a wide margin, they don’t need to do deals, just to do them.”

      Agreed.

  4. aap212 5 years ago

    Myers almost certainly won’t be a catcher in the majors. Romine probably will. And Montero’s an elite enough prospect that they find a way to make him, Butler, and Hosmer work together, even if it means flipping one down the line.

  5. I still don’t know what the hell the Diamondbacks were thinking, sending Haren to the Angels for that “unimpressive” package, when the Yankees were offering quite a bit more.

    • Guest 5 years ago

      technically without including Joba, the Angels offer was better. Yeah from a depth standpoint, it makes no sense for Arizona, but in content, the Angels gave up more.

      • I disagree, as Cameron from USS Mariner said, Saunders is not worth the 6M he’s gonna get in arb. The only thing that could make this a win for AZ would be the PTBNL. IMO, the Yanks (reported) offer was better than the Angels, just like Justin “Mendoza Line” Smoak was no where near the Montero package the Yanks offered the M’s for Lee. Why aren’t the GMs making the best deals for their respective clubs? Or better yet why won’t they do business with Mr. Cashman?

        • Guest 5 years ago

          That’s the exact point I made in another post this morning. I don’t know what’s going on, but Cashman has presented some compelling options to both the Mariners and Diamondbacks and both have shrugged off. I am still more appalled by the Mariners handling of Lee over this thing with Haren. People want to argue that Montero will be a 1st basemen. Fine, but the way it stands he is a catcher and not a bad one at that. Catching is an area of weakness for the Mariners and they could have molded Montero exactly to that team. Just didn’t make sense to me. I agree with you in that sense.

          • Calling Montero a catcher does not make it so. The Yankees keep him there because it increases his supposed trade value. However, other GMs look at him and see maybe 1B, perhaps even DH. That has an impact on value, especially if you have no idea if they will convert well defensively to the position.

            I think you are finding out a hard lesson: that other talent evaluators are not valuing the clubs internal players the way you think they ought be. Right now, Joba is not the centerpiece of a trade but more of a reclamation project — he is a 5 ERA reliever just barely hanging on to a job. He’s got some talent, but would be a risk for anyone. The Yankees have destroyed his value — within the next year if he does not improve, it will hit Francouer territory.

            Same is true for the Yankees other commodities. There is some talent, but all have risk. They all have a lot of exposure, but exposure does not mean good players. People will trust their own talent evaluators, regardless of whether or not the media commentary matches.

            When deciding between two 1B prospects that are projected to hit well, will you go with the one that is older, already to the MLB, and has experience playing the position defensively, or the younger one (admittedly with a little more power) that is in AAA (hitting some lately, but also had struggles) and that is being jerked around as a catcher, hindering his development for the sake of drumming up trade value? If you think about it that way, no way Montero looks better on paper than Smoak. And the complimentary package of prospects was probably better from Texas too.

          • I think right now the YAnks would be sellin glow on Joba, yeah he is having a bad season, so what? Cano had a bad season as well and look at what he has done after that bad season. Joba is still young and has the stools to improve because we know he is better than what he is now.

          • That is fine, and you might be right. But that means the Yankees have to go through the development process and take the risks. Right now, his value is not high, and no Yankee fan, or the NYY front office, can expect any team to jump on their under performing rubbish.

          • CosaOne 5 years ago

            Or the Yankees keep him there because he has improved (from being completely dreadful) and it make no sense to move him before they have to. He is only 20 years if they believe he has any chance to stick at catcher what so ever they are best served letting him play as many innings as possible at that position which his very young age allows them to do.

            I think its pretty commonly known that organization value their prospects more, this isnt something strickly related to the Yankees but most teams. The parent organization knows the most about these players and their development track so its only logical that they would have a hard fast opinion of them. You say Joba couldnt be the centerpiece of a deal and at this point im inclined to agree but during these negociations the Dbacks wanted Joba as the centerpiece and they wanted the Yankees to completely take on all Harens money and possibly a bad contract. Thats alot to ask. Joba wont reach Francouers lack of value for quite some time, he’s 24 and while his era is high his other peripheral stats are solid.

            Almost every prospect in the minors has question marks and risk, not just the Yankee players. Tim Lincecum is one of the best players in baseball but his fastball velocity has dropped and he’s pretty small for a guy who throws that many innings but analysts/scouts question whether he will be able to hold- do you not consider that a risk? Regardless of the exposure which has no bearing on the actual stats, a good amount of the players on the farm have had very good seasons (Betances,Brackman, Stoneburner, Phelps, Romine, Neosi, Nova, Nunez,Heathcutt, Montero to name a few)

            You paint way to negatively a picture of Montero. He has not been jerked around at catcher, thats been his position for his entire life, im not saying he will have a 15 year career at C but dont make it sound like this is some doomed experiment that the organization just made up to destroy his value. He’s 20 even if he has to move to 1st base he would have 3 years to learn the position (the least important defensive position on the diamond) and make the majors to debut at the same as Smoak just did. We arent talking about Short stops here, how much development would Montero really need to play first? Especially when you consider his bat

  6. Cyyoung 5 years ago

    26 yr. old proven reliever in the Majors, who is an All-Star, this isn’t just making a deal to make a deal. This makes this team better now and in the future.

  7. bannister19 5 years ago

    The Royals also have Eric Hosmer, Kila Ka’aihue, and more. There is no room for 1B and Catchers, or DHs.Like I’ve always said, because the contract is so team-friendly, he won’t be traded.If he happens to be, I would expect for Phil Hughes to be included in the contract or no deal.

    • KCUF914 5 years ago

      LOL @ Phil Hughes comment

      • Guest 5 years ago

        Yeah, I know. Homey pushing it a bit, but at least he tried.

      • bannister19 5 years ago

        Like I said, the Yankees aren’t getting Soria, because the Yankees aren’t going to give up Hughes.

        • CSPACED25 5 years ago

          Um so you work in the Royals front office? How do you know they won’t make the trade unless Hughes is included? And including Hughes would be absolutely ridiculous seeing he is probably more valuable than Soria is. Yes Soria is good but he is still a RP. No way does ANY team in baseball trade a young SP with the talent and potential Hughes has for a good RP.

          • CSPACED25 5 years ago

            Sorry this belongs under the next post not here.

            No not “precisely”..You have no idea what the Royals front office is thinking. For all you know they could be thinking Austin Romine is there future catcher or Dellin Bettances is the number 2 behind Greinke they have been looking for.Do I think they trade Soria? Absolutely not…But to sit here and talk like you know what is going on in their front office is absurd.

          • No, nobody does. But I do know about the Royals farm system and their needs, as I keep track of such things as a fan. Austin Romine might be the future Royals catcher, but it also might be any of Wil Myers/Manny Pina/Salvador Perez that are in A+ and above. Unless Romine has an elite bat for the position, we have a more developed “defense first” catcher in AAA right now that is hitting decently. We also have lots of really good pitching prospects in the A-AA range (2-3 profiling as aces and actually performing that way), so unless you are offering something more developed or in the Julio Teheran range of elite, how do those trades make the Royals better? The NYY do not have the pieces in the farm system to make the Royals better. Those pieces might be valuable to a team as bereft as the Astros, but or us, what you offer cannot just be more of what we already got. “Value” is a relative term, one not determined entirely by BA rankings. The Royals want to compete, so “value” is about whether or not pieces acquired will be above-average/elite players in the MLB at POSITIONS OF NEED. You may have good bats with no position in your farm system (Montero), but since the Royals already have a lot of those (Hosmer, Kila, C. Robinson, Butler, etc.), Montero’s value to them would be minimal to the Royals — Montero would have to really rake (.300+ average, lots of walks, 30+HRs) to be a marginal improvement unless he can stick at catcher.

            So, if you don’t have those things and you want something from the Royals, then you have to give up something you also value on your MLB team. If that is too much, then a deal cannot be made. If we want, we can keep our player, or trade him to someone else that can give us something we can REALLY use.

            In the abstract, the NYY have enough “value” in the farm system to make trades for good players. But when it comes right down to it, the teams you want stuff from don’t need your “value” as much as you think.

          • bannister19 5 years ago

            You don’t have to work in a front office to know the obvious. And just like now MLBTR reported that we weren’t interested in Jesus Montero. Some things are basic knowledge of farm systems and organizations.Next, yes, many teams in baseball would trade young pitchers, especially those with huge payrolls. The Royals need pitching, and Joba is intriguing, but doesn’t match the value of Soria. Young players like Hughes are traded quite frequently, actually. Also, please try not to over-rate Phil Hughes. He’s young, good, and valuable, but he isn’t David Price. It’ll take a lot for the Yankees to trade Hughes and It’ll take a lot for the Royals to trade Soria. Neither of them are impossible, but the difference is Soria has already established himself as one of the best closers in baseball, and he’s under contract for LONGER than Phil Hughes.

            Oh, and keep in mind Soria was a starter his entire career before being Rule 5’d, so that’s more value for a team who would take the risk in converting him.

          • BWOzar 5 years ago

            You’re on drugs if you think Soria is equal value to Hughes. Last year Hughes, as a reliever, put up 2.2 WAR, Soria’s best season was 2.4 in ’07 and hasn’t been above 1.8 since (he’s on pace for 1.6 this year). That’s comparing relief pitchers to other relief pitchers. Notwithstanding the fact that decent starting pitchers – let alone 24 year old All Star level pitchers with upside – are always more valuable than great relief pitchers. At the simplest level: 200 innings are more valuable to a team than 70 (Soria’s MLB career high is 69 innings).

          • bannister19 5 years ago

            The ONLY reason Hughes WAR was that high is because of his his few starts that added up innings. WAR takes a look at innings pitched. Like I said, Soria is under contract for longer, and just like Hughes has always been a starter throughout his career, Soria was often a starter in Mexican leagues until turned into a full time reliever with the Royals. The Royals have toyed around with the idea of turning him into a starter (and not a good idea because our bullpen would take too much of a blow at this point, until somebody like Louis Coleman can come up), and that has value as well. Soria is a couple of years older, and already established himself as one of the best closers in the majors. Phil Hughes has value, but please stop over-rating him. You act like he’s Tim Lincecum or David Price.

          • BWOzar 5 years ago

            You’re dead wrong about Hughes’ WAR, he was actually sub-replacement level as a starter in April and May. He had a negative WAR thanks to giving up 21 runs in nearly 35 innings and had to make up for that when he returned as a reliever.

            Relievers are, in the vast majority of cases, failed starting pitchers. Soria never made the move back to the rotation because they felt his secondary pitchers were not advanced to retire major league hitters. Look I love Soria, I think he’s a great pitcher but he is nowhere near as valuable as Phil Hughes (or other young starters comparable to Hughes like Buchholz, Hanson, Anderson or Price – who, fyi, is nearly a year older than Hughes and has a higher xFIP 4.15 to Hughes’ 4.12) because he doesn’t pitch enough innings.

            Soria is under contract through 2014, but those years are not exactly a bargain – they’re just a bit under fair market value for his services (assuming he isn’t seriously injured before then) at 8 and 8.75 mil in 2013 and ’14.

            I’d also point out that the Royals building around a closer is like having an awesome sound system in your home theater, but no television, movies, blu-ray player or couches. A good closer is the last piece on a good team and (if you ask the Phillies or Rays in recent seasons) a piece you can get to the World Series without.

          • BWOzar 5 years ago

            Which isn’t to say that the Royals don’t have good pieces on the way to majors – Moustakas and Hosmer, in particular, are great players to build around. Just that a closer really isn’t that important and if you can move him for someone that can be a core building block of your organization (like a Montero, regardless of if he catches, plays 1B or DHs) then you’ve got to make that move.Frankly, I wouldn’t trade Montero for Soria if I were Cashman – I would have moved him for Haren, however, and would move him for Greinke because he doesn’t have a place in the Yankee lineup if he can’t catch long term (because of Teixeira at 1B and the need to use Posada and the aging regulars at DH).

        • Precisely. For the Royals to trade a player of Soria’s caliber, they have to win the trade hands down. Right now, the Yankee farm system does not match up well for the Royals (who likely already have the better farm system). The pieces the Royals would need to help them in the future are the pieces that the Yanks want to keep. So in this case, you cannot help your bullpen without hurting another part of your team. We don’t need 1B/DH prospects that are being set back developmentally by playing positions they cannot handle. We really don’t need relievers (like Joba) right now. We need CF prospects or players, SS prospects, real catchers (that have some offensive ability), and starting pitching prospects. If you don’t have that, or are not willing to give it up from your Major League team, then we do not have a match. You find the asking price humorous, but let us make this clear as well: the Royals are not shopping Soria. The Yankees inquired because they covet him. We can use him too. So, when you ask the Royals to give up a piece that will hurt the major league team for the next couple of years, you got to make it worth their time.

  8. DJ_2 5 years ago

    Right now the Yankees really shouldn’t give up Montero or Hughes for anyone on the market except for Prince Fielder. Dunn could also potentially get Montero for the Nats, but if I’m the Yankees Dunn will most likely be a rental and/or an aging DH. Prince Fielder is still young and could plug the DH hole for a long time. With Scott Boras as his agent he is also likely to want to sign a huge contract with the Yankees, similar to what Teixeira did. Not to mention, CC and Prince seemed like they had a good time in Milwaukee together so some recruiting could be going on.I think that Cashman is probably getting a little angered by being denied Lee and now Haren (for Joe F-ing Saunders), so he might want to stick it to the other teams and acquire Prince. I just feel that Cash has something up his sleeves and will swoop in and make an offer that the Brewers can’t deny. Maybe something centered around Joba and Montero/Romine.

    • sportsnut969 5 years ago

      Boy if the Yankees would put Montero / Hughes together in a offer for Fielder the Brewers would be stupid not to pull the trigger on that deal.

      • I agree. Prince is a long-term DH in the AL. You would be giving up a lot for a player whose only skill is to hit the ball out of the yard.

      • BWOzar 5 years ago

        Yup, give up your #2 starter and a top 5 prospect in baseball for 1.5 years of a designated hitter when you already have a superior 1B and need the DH spot for Posada and the other aging veterans next year. That’d be a GREAT move for the Yankees. [End Sarcasm]

        • sportsnut969 5 years ago

          Are you really serious, you would rather have Posada long term over Prince Fielder at DH, IMO there would be plenty of AB’s for everybody. I just don’t see Posada as a 30 + homer guy and if you are a Championship quality team like the Yankees you have to have a guy in the DH slot who is going to rake 30 year in and year out IMO.

          And for the guy who said a year and a half of Fielder. There is NO WAY that the Yankees trade for this guy and not lock him up long term.

          Fielder in that awesome Yankee line-up in the middle somewhere would just make a sicker line-up even sicker.

          • BWOzar 5 years ago

            Did you read my comment? Is that what I said? No, it’s not.

            I said it’s ridiculous to trade a top 5 prospect and your #2 starter for a DH for 1.5 years and I stand by that. Do I think Prince Fielder could hit 50 home runs as the Yankee DH? I sure do – but the upgrade from someone like Posada (or Rodriguez considering his health issues or Jeter considering age) DHing regularly is not worth the cost of the team’s 24 years old all star starting pitcher and one of the best hitters in the minors. They would be a worse team with Fielder instead of Hughes because the marginal upgrade from Posada/Thames/etc to Fielder is far smaller than the downgrade from Hughes to Dustin Moseley (or Mitre when Pettitte comes back in a few weeks).

            I’d also point out that they don’t need a 30 homer guy as the DH, Matsui never once hit 30 homers in a year (though he did hit 28 in ’09, his career high). Fyi, the most frequent DH for the Yankees in the championship years: 2000: Shane Spencer, 1999: Chili Davis, 1998: Daryl Strawberry and 1996: Ruben Sierra – hardly the 50 home run power of Fielder – they don’t need that to win.

  9. jedietrich11 5 years ago

    i’m not arguing against anyone, but could someone explain why montero is so good? his minor league stats don’t really tell me much of his upside because they look very average (from a quick glimpse)

    • j6takish 5 years ago

      If the Yankees keep refusing to trade him, when they do eventually trade him the other team will think they are fleecing the Yankees. His value is in his mystique

      • I agree, but I think the Yanks are finding that a lot of teams are seeing right through it. I find it interesting that the Yankees were shut out of the two biggest names to be traded so far, even when they included their “top” prospect. I’m not denying Montero has potential, but I think teams are not as in love with him as the Yankees were hoping.

        I’ve been trying to think of a traded Yankee that turned out to be great but can’t think of any. Can anyone help me out? Could it be that teams are being skeptical of the Yankees player development system?

        • j6takish 5 years ago

          Its a little early to tell, but so far Austin Jackson is better than advertised.

        • Precisely. This is not a “everybody loves to hate Cashman” issue. It is a cold hard fact: Yankees prospects get a lot of media attention for their results, but in all honesty, they are no less risky than prospects from any other farm system. Cashman is trying to cash in on the “Mystique” factor, while other teams are telling him that his farm system just is not that good. Furthermore, Montero and Joba are good cases in point, they will sacrifice the future for the present; they will stunt the development of their players for short-term wins and for trade value. Joba should be learning how to start in the major leagues, but he is now a (failed) bullpen piece with little value. Montero should be learning how to play first base, but instead, they are pretending to keep him at catcher in order to make him an “elite” prospect. Anyone that takes those guys has to rebuild the future of those players; that takes time and has some significant risks. The Yankees do not get credit for what they could be, but for what they are — misfit toys that they have participated in breaking.

        • BWOzar 5 years ago

          First of all plenty of people that have nothing to do with the Yankees are very high on Montero, such as Keith Law, Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus – those aren’t NY media or Yankee plants. They recognize that he has, arguably, the best bat in the entire minor leagues and that he doesn’t fit well at any MLB position as he’d be a poor C or an untested 1B.

          As to Yankee prospects that have been traded in recent years that have done well: Mike Lowell, Ted Lilly, Jake Westbrook have all had strong careers. Arodys Vizcaino has been superb in the Atlanta system since they traded him for Vazquez. Nick Johnson and Juan Rivera have had nice, if injury filled, careers since the Yankees moved them. Damaso Marte did quite well in Pittsburgh. Marcus Thames has had a decent career. Ian Kennedy has had a solid year in Arizona as has Tyler Clippard in Washington.

    • DJ_2 5 years ago

      He’s been average this year, but check out his stats for his minor league career:

      link to baseball-reference.com

      Not so average, right?? Up until this year he’s raked the minors.

      He’s also not legally allowed to drink yet, so struggles at AAA can be expected. Montero is the #4 prospect in baseball and plays C (sort of) so he deserves his hype.

      • j6takish 5 years ago

        “Sort of” plays catcher like Victor Martinez? or “sort of” plays catcher like if Miguel Cabrera were to throw on the gear?

        • BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

          What’s the difference? Victor Martinez is a terrible defensive catcher.

    • withpower 5 years ago

      Uhh… a career .312./.372/.497 line in 1425 PA from a 20 year old in AAA (where he’s actually increased his walk rate) and you can’t quite put your finger on his upside..?

      • but there’s quite a difference between the minors and the majors. Players have done awesome in the minors only to struggle once called up to the bigs

        • withpower 5 years ago

          I dunno.. I mean, I definitely agree with you. But its a pretty well established pattern that guys who hit like Montero has at such a young age at all the different levels he’s done it at.. I mean, developmentally, the guy is in line with the likes of Cabrera.

    • They look average? Are you looking at the same stats I am? The guy OPS’ed over 900 last year as a freakin’ 19 year old in High A and AA. He has been on one of the hottest streaks in the minor leagues for over a month this season. He is an elite bat, no matter what position he plays.

      • Then keep him. He’s the Yankees best prospect — their future. As for the Royals, he is not our best hitting prospect. Both Hosmer and Moustakas are young and comparable, if not better this year. Also, they have had the unique experience of actually practicing the position at which they will play in the majors, rather than the Royals putting Hosmer in CF to increase is positional value in a trade.

        If this trade was actually offered and the Royals thought in any way Montero would be a catcher, it would have happened last week.

  10. Potrzeba 5 years ago

    Why isn’t Boston in on soria? We need him badly.

    • Because Theo is too scared to trade away his blue-chips?

    • dc21892 5 years ago

      I’d love to see that, but for that to happen they’d have to flip Paps first. Philly remains interesting because the Sox are interested in Werth. Why not try to add Papelbon to a deal with Philly? Imagine being able to add Werth and Soria and not killing the farm system? That would be awesome. Theo is capable of it too.

      • Potrzeba 5 years ago

        I was thinking that to. It would be pretty legit. I was thinking we trade papelbon and a prospect for werth and happ, then we center a trade around happ.

  11. I read some of the trade proposal and people must going crazy. Soria for Montero? I don’t care how many years he has left, at the end of the day he still only a reliever. I would’t give up Romie either.

    • Mariano Rivera is also just a reliever, would you give up Montero for a younger Rivera? I’m not saying Soria is Rivera, but he still brings long-term stability to the 9th inning. Closers are hard to come by, and for the last 15 years the Yankees have had the best in the league(history). It’s not so much that the Yankees are looking for another RP, they are looking for a Rivera replacement. Soria is clearly the best option out there.

      • TheodoreRoosevelt 5 years ago

        Good post!

        Far, far too many people get red-faced, purse their lips, and act coy around Montero. At the end of the day, he’s a bat. A very good bat for many years to come in all likelihood, but still just a bat. The Yankees won’t be struggling for that kind of player.

        But a new Rivera? That is pure gold dust. You don’t find them on the trade/free agency market every year. I like the Yankees’ long-term thinking on this one, and I respect KC’s understanding of Soria’s worth.

    • Soria is not “only a reliever,” he’s a top-tier closer. Closers may not win games for you but they make sure you don’t lose them. That’s still pretty valuable and vital in tight games.

      • chucktb 5 years ago

        They’re not that valuable to 90 loss teams.

        • Do the Royals need a closer? Of course not. Are they right to ask for a lot for Soria? Absolutely.

  12. Cyyoung 5 years ago

    Epstein doesn’t have that insight. 3 games against the Angels and the Sox will be sellers.

  13. Bernaldo 5 years ago

    From Benji A – “I read some of the trade proposal and people must going crazy. Soria for Montero? I don’t care how many years he has left, at the end of the day he still only a reliever. I would’t give up Romie either.” It is worth noting that closers have high value on championship caliber teams and that Soria is a dominant player at this postion. Teams with high expectations place a high value on set-up guys as well. Soria in the 8th and Rivera in the 9th makes the Yankee’s a much better team this season. And, if/when Rivera retires, Soria is there to step in and close. Montero does not make the Yankees a better team tihs season and probably not next. Montero has never played MLB and while he may be a solid prospect, he may be a player without a position and is just as likely to be a mediocre player as a good one.

  14. Dylan 5 years ago

    Honest Question: The more you dangle a prospect, does that lower his value? I feel like the Yankees are saying he’s not as good as we thought because he was once untouchable….maybe I’m completely wrong on this, so feel free to say so.

    • I think the reason they do it, is because they have other good catchers in their minor league system

    • CosaOne 5 years ago

      Supposedly he’s been offered for Halladay and Lee who are argueably the 2 best pitchers in baseball. Lets not make it seem like they are offering him up for Ty Wiggington or Ollie Perez here.

      If you are rumored to be offering a top prospect for a top starter that can dominate then I dont think it hurts a trade chips value. Also its not like the trade talks hurt Monteros numbers in the minors he’s 20 and holding his own in AAA thats imoressive to say the least

      Keith Law, Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus have no incentive to rank Montero as a top 5-10 prospect if they dont feel he truly is. They arent on the Yankee payroll, and stand nothing to gain, rather they could lose credibility if they just blindly ranked any Yankee prospect highly if the guy didnt deserve it

  15. chucktb 5 years ago

    Surely Dayton Moore isn’t so stupid that he turned down Montero for Soria. Soria’s really good, to be sure, but pretty unnecessary for a team as bad as the Royals. Furthermore, closers are eminently replaceable. Top 2 or 3 hitting prospects in the major leagues are not replaceable. If Cashman really did make that offer, and I’m skeptical, Moore should jump on it. Of course, knowing Moore, he’s liable to turn it down and then turn around and trade Soria to the Mets for Jeff Francoeur.

    • This is the problem: the Roylas have 3-4 prospects in the top 20 right now, most in the high minors, that play 1B/DH. They have good bat prospects, and it is unclear that Montero would be that much of an upgrade. He is a top-5 now because the NYY have him dressed in drag as a catcher, and is rated based on being an elite bat at the position. If nobody besides the Yankees (who have an interest in artificially inflating his prospect status) think he is a catcher, then the offer, even if good value, is a bad fit for the Royals organization.

      • For this reason it does make sense that they refuse that deal for Montero.

      • chucktb 5 years ago

        He’s a top hitting prospect regardless of where he plays. It’s silly to turn down prospects who can hit like Montero, who are much younger than everyone else in the league, simply because they play the wrong position. You could move Montero or one of the other prospects later for something else if you want but Montero is an elite bat and the Royals should jump on that and worry about whether he sticks at C or 1B later.

        • Except, they have a lot of players that profile in that position that can also hit and get on base at a really nice clip. Not only would Montero’s “elite” upside only be a marginal improvement upon what we got, he would have to hit the very top of that upside in order to be much of an improvement at all. For the Royals, Montero would only be insulation against 3-4 players flaming out.

          Moreover, with that kind of logjam in the upper minors, it depresses the value of the other commodities you have at that position. If everyone knows you have to move some bats, then they will low-ball you.

    • Guest 5 years ago

      “Of course, knowing Moore, he’s liable to turn it down and then turn around and trade Soria to the Mets for Jeff Francoeur.”

      Hilarious. I’m wondering if a handful of these GM’s where all shipped the bad batch of kool aid.

  16. gcheezpuff 5 years ago

    Maybe the yanks would take Lilly and Fuku in exchange for the underperforming Granderson. He’d bring speed and a lefty bat to the cubs outfield.. Pretty unlikely as the yanks wouldn’t have much interest in fukudome, but they may have soured on Granderson.

    • First off the last thing the yankees need is another pitcher who
      1. is old
      2. will come to the american league and get lit up like a tree on christmas
      Then the next to last thing the yankees need is
      1. a decent outfielder who cant hit

  17. I dont know how legit any of these rumors are .. but it sure is funny to watch all the NYY fans cry about it.

  18. Cyyoung 5 years ago

    Im lucky here I’ve seen Montero play, in Double AA, kid is really a good hitter. People keep knocking his defense, he keeps working on this he will be better than you think. This coming from a Sox fan. In the Eastern League in recent years I’ve seen Mauer, and Weiters, Montero can hit, the ball flies off his bat.
    I know he is in AAA, now but if I was KC I would have to think about this.

    • I agree. I’d do a trade involving Montero very quickly regardless of Butler and Myers (who may still be 2 years away). Montero can play next year in the big leagues and he can be good.

      The thing is though… a shut down reliever is harder to find than people think. There’s only a handful of them in all of baseball and Soria is one of the best. The Royals may feel like their team is better off with a shut down reliever at the end of games than with a young stud maybe catcher, maybe 1B player.

  19. Guest 5 years ago

    Well, I take back most of my comments this morning. This speaks in volume why the Royals are a consisitent losing team. Cashman offers Montero for Soria (a reliever) and it is apparently turned down. Why an f’ing stupid move. My god, just when I thought the GM’s this season couldn’t be any dumber, I am yet proven wrong again. I don’t want to hear from anyone why he didn’t take it. They are a losing team. That’s a fact. They continue to be a losing team. That is a fact. They have little forecasted for the next year or two. That is probably true. The team friendly contract will be irrelevant in about 3 or 4 years. Fine, they didn’t have to take it, but boy, another masterpiece by one of these losing GM’s. Makes you think no?

    • stl_cards16 5 years ago

      LOL…..so when you were wrong, you counter it by saying that’s because the Royals are a losing team? They didn’t want an overrated NY prospect, it’s not too hard to understand. With that team friendly of a contract, the Royals have plenty of time to trade him. Especially with the lack of relievers on the market this year, they can really make someone pay. They are set at 1B and it’s always a poor decision to pick up someone to be just a DH for multiple years. If the Royals are really interested in moving Soria there will be plenty of good offers. Maybe not with players with the upside Montero has, but someone who will be able to have a bigger impact in a position of need for the Roayals.

      • A. Jackson was overrated has well.

        • That was Cashman getting taken for a ride. Granderson is not that good.

          However, the BABIP comment about Jackson needs to be remembered — his hitting numbers are not sustainable over the long term. Regardless, DET got rid of its high priced CF with crazy platoon splits for a player that is about as good for them.

          It does prove that the NYY can have some real talent in their system, but it also shows that Cashman is not exactly the best evaluator of the talent (and development of such) that he does have.

  20. The yanks should consider trading for the prince, think about it you trade joba and montero the yanks get a DH which they would probably use for Montero anyway in the coming years and the Brewers get a kid with great stuff who could be converted into a frontline starter. Montero could fill the 1st base vacancy immediately or even stay as a catcher

  21. withpower 5 years ago

    I can’t imagine the Royals getting a better offer for Soria than Montero. Montero for the Mexecutioner straight up is a great deal for both teams.

    If KC really isn’t interested, it probably has more to do with fit. They’ve got guys like Moustakas and Hosmer who both project to be similar bats to Jesus. Hosmer is already at 1B, the Royals have Butler and Gordon already on the 25 man (and Gordon has been moved to a lesser defensive corner), Kila in AAA, and while I think Moustakas is going to stick at 3B for the foreseeable future, it’s not like he’s Robinson or Schmidt over there.

    Royals are pretty stocked on good corner bats with below average defense. As a Yankee fan, I do want Soria — and badly. I think he’s pretty much the perfect addition for us. The one guy who is good enough where he can step into the closer’s role with zero issues when God retires.

  22. jdub220 5 years ago

    And here I was, only two days ago, saying that Montero should not be offered for Soria. Thanks for making me look like an ass, Cashman.

    • melonis_rex 5 years ago

      I’ve already been made to look like an ass around trade deadline happenings, so that makes two of us.

  23. bamf9 5 years ago

    I couldn’t believe this when I read it. Unless mo suffered a long term injury, why offer this deal. Mariano seems un-human as he is having the best year of his career. He might pitch till 45. I know the yanks bullpen blows this year(with the same guys from last year except Coke and Hughes?), but Jesus for soria? I have no problem with soria, but number 4 prospect in all of baseball for a setup man? Also I’m sick of his defensive liability issue, after watching a lot of his games this year, you really see he’s not that bad anymore, IMO. Maybe the Yankees feel different. Worst case senario rominne starting catcher( I think he will put up Jorge numbers) than Jesus as dh/backup catcher( puts up fielder numbers?just a shot in the dark, I don’t know, power develops later, so he could hot anywhere from 20-50)

    • Yankees420 5 years ago

      1) Mo is not having the best year of his career. He’s had better FIP, xFIP, and WAR numbers in multiple seasons; although I do agree that he is “un-human.”
      2) Romine’s a much better defensive catcher than Jorge, and is not nearly as good with the stick. Maybe if everything goes right he’ll put up Posada’s numbers, but I think you should taper your expectations to something like .270/.345/.410 with solid defense.
      3) I’ve read that Montero’s ceiling with the bat is Miguel Cabrera, personally I think that is generous and unrealistic to expect him to be that good. I’d be happy if he can play a passable C or LF and puts up something like .295/.355/.485

      • bamf9 5 years ago

        1) let’s look at real stats and also beyond the stats. 2) posada usually bats at around .270-.275, he’s had a few seasons above that and romine is still a young minor leaguer, look at Austin Jackson this year putting up better numbers than he did in the minors. 3) and obviously comparing any player to bat like cabrera is generous, but that’s his ceiling, which makes sense they have the same build. I wouldn’t give up any player with the chance to be a catching cabrera for a setup man, while our closer has shown little to no signs of regression.

        • Yankees420 5 years ago

          1) Please explain how FIP, xFIP, and WAR aren’t “real stats.” I know that right now Mo has a sub-1 ERA and that he’s never finished a season with an ERA that low, but that doesn’t mean that he is having the best year of his career.
          2) Yes, Posada does usually bat around .270-.275, if you noticed I also put OBP and Slugging in there as well, and both of those projections/expectations that I came up with are lower than Posada’s career norms. Also, Austin Jackson has a .436 BABIP, K’s more than 1/4 of his AB’s, was god awful at the plate during May and June, and has only recently heated up in July (again with a .475 BABIP so far on the month).
          3) I never said it wasn’t his ceiling, all I said is that I don’t think we should expect our 20 year old prospect to start hitting like one of the best in the game.
          4) I also never said he was worth Soria, or that I would like it if Cashman had gotten that (reported) deal done.

          • bamf9 5 years ago

            1) those stats aren’t as solid as stats like era, blown saves, and k/9. I’m just saying Mariano looks as dominate as ever. 2) you did put slugging and Obp, but I feel those develop later in development, plate decipline and power, just my opinion and Not fact. And I’m just saying Austin Jackson is playing above what I expected his rookie year, wish we still had him. 3) I’m not saying at 20 he’s going to be Miguel cabrera. In 5 years he very well could be. 4) I didn’t say u wanted the trade to get done, I was just stating that I didn’t want it to.

          • Yankees420 5 years ago

            1) Yes they are, FIP and xFIP are much better indicators of a pitcher vs. ERA. Blown saves is just about as useless as saves, and I’ll give you K/9 being on par with the stats I first mentioned.
            2) Fair enough, power is one of the last things to develop (usually), but either way I don’t think Romine will be Posada with the bat. Again, Jackson has been EXTREMELY lucky this season, and he’s already shown in May/July that if he doesn’t have a ridiculously high BABIP, then his numbers aren’t going to be very good.
            3) I would love for Montero to be on par with Miggy in 5 years in terms of offensive production, but my point is that by placing such high expectations on these youngsters, we set ourselves up for disappointment. I personally would have no problem at all if he develops fully and is Nick Swisher with the bat.
            4) Same page.

  24. Jim Briggs III 5 years ago

    Just… wow. The Royals won’t trade a reliever (albeit a cost-controlled one) for the #4 prospect in baseball? Even if Montero ends up not being a great catcher, did that hurt Mike Piazza’s teams any? Did Carlos Delgado suffer from his move to first? We’re going to worry about too much clutter because we have Billy frigging Butler in the wings? If Butler somehow turns into an all-time great masher and Montero is there for you, is that somehow a bad problem to have?

    Keep enjoying the world of losing, KC. George Brett should walk into Dayton Moore’s office and clock him one.

    • BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

      George Brett should walk into his office and take his job.

      • Jim Briggs III 5 years ago

        I should note, I think Butler’s a nice player. I just think if you’re talking about Butler vs. a guy being touted as the next Miguel Cabrera, there’s no contest.

  25. The_Silver_Stacker 5 years ago

    I would love to see the Yanks add someone like Leo Nunez and Adam Dunn

  26. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    Ok here’s my take. Yanks would be fools to trade a top prospect like Montero for Soria when they’ve publicly had to have their arm twisted to include him in deals for Santana and Haren (whom they refused) and Haladay and Lee (whom they acquiesced). True, most of those, except for Haren, were either rentals or required $100 mil contract extensions as well. Soria is signed to a very “team friendly” deal. However, I have a problem with how we are valueing SP vs relievers.

    Keep in mind first the role in which Soria would play for the Yanks. Unless something has changed behind the scenes with regards to Mo and his health or his decision to come back after this year, Soria would be an 8th inning guy/back up to Mo if he should spend time on the DL. Soria would play that role at least for this season and all of 2011. If Mo decides to go beyond 2011 is a mystery only he can shed light on. So IF Mo retires after 2011 then Soria could replace him for 2012, 13 and 14. Great. However, in winter of 2012 you will most likely have closers like Papelbon, Bell, Braxton, Capps and Valverde on the market. Whether Soria will be the same player in 2012 (see Eric Gagne) or any other relief pitcher is the question. Relief pitchers are the most fickly position players of them all which is why, traditionally, none of them ever make the really big bucks. Consider that the BEST relief pitcher EVER (Mariano) pitching for the MOST FAMOUS AND WEALTHIEST team in baseball with 5 WS rings “ONLY” avg’d $12.5 mil over the last 7 years. No other team probably would’ve paid him that amount of money. That suggests that as great and as important as a relief pitcher is, they usually, and in most cases, will never be valued or as trusted as the great starters of the their generations. So if you are a team that values prospects more than money, and the Yanks exemplify that team, then why “spend” your best prospect to acquire a top closer who, for the imeediate future, won’t be closing? That’s tantamount to buying a Maybach to shuttle the kids to and from school incase your regular car, the Rolls Royce Phantom is making a “funny” sound and you want to lighten the workload. GM’s, even those for the Yankees, can’t acquire players like their gangsta rappers fearing they’ll never make it past 40 so “We might as well ball to we fall”.

    Trading Montero for Soria is a poor use of an assett, IMO. As great as Soria is, he wasn’t much in the minors (career 4.05 ERA w/ 107 ko/44 walks in 120 IP). I’m not taking anything away from Soria, but Mo wasn’t much either. That leads me to believe that “good” pitchers can be turned into “excellent” relievers and that great relievers can also lose their magic from year to year, while most FOR starters usually end up being more stable, barring injuries, etc.

    As for people dogging Montero. I’ve heard conflicting reports about his progress this year at C. Some say while he’s struggled to hit at AAA that his defense has shown marked improvement now that he isn’t sharing time with Austin Romine behind the dish. Who know’s…I haven’t seen him play first hand. What I do know is that he’s a dynamic bat who at 20 years old is starting to come around and show he can handle AAA pitching. He’s excelled at every level until now, and while he’s still another full year at AAA away from being ready, he will probebly be more of a Miguel Cabrera type hitter vs a Travis Hafner or Adum Dunn type hitter. While the Yanks have issues in terms of older players who will need time at DH, I just don’t see this as much of a problem as others. The Yanks do not look to be as dynamic of an offensive team 2 or 3 years down the road. Posada will be retired by then, Swisher and Grandy will be at the end of their deals and Jeter may or may not be a .300+/.370+ elite hitter at the moment. Arod, while having a great year with the RBI is not having a great year in terms of HRS. Whether or not that’s an indication of him slowing down or the hip injury wearing him down will be told in time. But what if the days of him being a 35+ hr hitter are over? That would leave Tex and Cano to carry the workload in terms of dynamic offense for the future. Meanwhile, Montero might be mlb ready at age 21 and under control thru all of his prime years. I’m sure it wouldn’t be a problem for them to sign this kid thru age 30 at a real team friendly price if they wanted to. Why in the world would be in a rush to trade him “just to trade him” as someone indicated. If anything, he will have much, much more value, if he comes up as a C/DH for a couple of years and shows the offensive talent that most think he has. Bottom line is, finding at bats for a hopefully baby phenom and vets like Arod and Tex three years from now should be a problem that most teams would love to have.

    Also, Adam Dunn is horrific in the field and yet he is one of the most sought after bats in baseball and produces 40+ hrs and a .380+ OBP year end and year out. If Montero can become a young version of Dunn with the same power, same plate discipline AND the ability to hit for higher average and C 40-50 games ala Mike Piazza then he would be a super player to have around. Therefor, sorry……I’d rather have Montero than a closer performing in an 8th inning role and would rather find an in-house solution for our 8th inning needs and keep an assett like Montero for our own use or at least for a better trade target.

    • melonis_rex 5 years ago

      My question with Montero is, why haven’t the Yanks already moved him off position? His bat plays anywhere on the baseball diamond, not just at C.

      Catcher is the hardest defensive position in MLB. Why not have him playing left field in the minors, or a corner infield position (I know, the Yanks have those filled, but assuming he’s not a catcher, he’ll attract more trade value if he’s able to play another position and isn’t seen as “DH only.”).

      Actually, I think the Yankees should have him try LF in the minors. If that fails, try 1B or 3B. I agree, even if he’s Adam Dunn in the field, he’s still worth a ton, especially if his salary is league minimum for the first 3 years and well below market value for the next 3.

      • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

        I had a whole paragraph written before I lost it all.

        Anyway, the meat of what I was writing is that Montero is still very young. The Yanks are going to give him as much time as possible to learn how to become a passable C ala Mike Piaza. Keep in mind Posada is not a great defensive C and he’s probably headed to the HOF when he retires. So far in his minor lge career Montero has played

        2008-132 games played; 71 @ C
        2009- 92 games played; 59 @ C
        2010- 89 games played; 75 @ C

        It wasn’t until the Yanks split Montero and Romine apart that he (Montero) got more PT time @ C. Don’t know if it’s Yankee hype or not but the word is that he’s improved over the course of the last two years. Also, his season was cut short last year when he was hit and broke a finger so that may have stunt his growth a little. It’s also easy to forget that his kid had very little formal training before debuting in the minors at age 17 in 2007. Compared to Posey and Wieters who both debut in the minors at age 21-22 after spending 3 years at Ga Tech and Florida St. and then an additional 2 years in the minors to further hone their skills.

        Also, it seems that the biggest problem he has are his lateral movements and his SB caught percentage. I think that catching major league pitchers who are more prone to getting the ball over the plate (except AJ) and more adept at holding runners on might minimize and hide his deficiencies. All that is being said to say that I don’t think he’s that far away from being a passable mlb C defensively. Also, he might improve once he gets to work with Pena and Girardi on a more “hands on” environment. Being 20 @ AAA will allow the Yanks to take their time and figure out where he will end up. Things have a way of figuring themselves out.

  27. stl_cards16 5 years ago

    Does anyone else find it alarming that all of the sudden this untouchable future superstar is all of the sudden being offered up for anything decent that the Yankees want? That should tell us all something about what the Yankees REALLY think about Montero’s future.

  28. melonis_rex 5 years ago

    In other news, the Royals are a bad organization, and Dayton Moore should be fired instantly, or demoted to lead scout.

    1- I want Billy Beane to offer Andrew Bailey + the Yankees’ choice of any other reliever in the A’s pen for Montero. That would be awesome. 2- Why would Cashman offer Montero for Soria when he didn’t offer Montero+ for Dan Haren? Makes no sense whatsoever, especially if you’re the Yankees and payroll isn’t a huge deal. If you’re talking about repeating, Haren helps a LOT more than Soria does.

  29. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    I think some the Royal’s fans are having the wrong arguement. It’s not “does the Yanks farm match up well with the Royals needs”. The Royals need as much talent as possible because of this fact.

    The Yanks greatest strength is financial currency.

    The Royals greatest strength is physical, young and cheep talent.

    The Royals need to acquire as much talent as possible to either use for their own purpose and develop a cohesive team good enough to challenge in a weak AL Central and then spin off some of that unproven talent to acquire PROVEN mlb talent to make quick runs at the playoffs before the talent they keep becomes to expensive to keep.

    So I could care less who they have, IF THEY FEEL INCLINED TO TRADE SORIA, and there isn’t indication that they feel that way, then acquiring the best talent available and letting them “duke it out” to see who stays and who go’s is the best way to do things. Also, be carefull about how you valuate minor league talent. Just because Baseball America hasn’t gotten around to labeling some of the Yanks prospect as top 50 worthy talents doesn’t mean anything. When the Braves traded for Texeira, all but Neftali Feliz were ranked Top 100. Turn the clock forward and he looks to be the best of the bunch of (vs Andrus, Salty, Harrison and Jones). I’m not sure if the Yanks really offered Montero for Soria and if so, was it straight up, but I know that some of the other prospects the Dbacks wanted along with Joba are pretty good pitching prospects as well (Delin Betances, Hector Noesi, Ivan Nova/David Phelps and Zack McAllister).

  30. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    Does anyone else find it alarming that all of the sudden this untouchable future superstar is all of the sudden being offered up for anything decent that the Yankees want? That should tell us all something about what the Yankees REALLY think about Montero’s future.
    ———————–

    I’m still not sure if the Yanks “dangled” Montero for Soria simply because it’s a huge price to pay considering you really just need a 8th inning guy. However, Montero isn’t being offered up for “anything decent the Yanks want”. He has only been offered up for, to my knowledge” Cliff Lee and Roy Hallady. Big difference don’t you think?

  31. jedietrich11 5 years ago

    Just needed to throw this out there… remember dee brown? .353 12 HRs in 235 AB in AA
    which was our AAA at the time, basically…. oh, and dee was 20 years old… 😀

    • jedietrich11 5 years ago

      56 RBI, 10 SB in like 235 ABs 35 BBs, 41 Ks…. he sure turned out to be a stud. not saying montero won’t be good, but they most definitely don’t pan out. is that risk worth the great soria?

      • CosaOne 5 years ago

        What risk really? Is Soria coming in to save important games in a playoff race that the Royals are secretly in? If he went down right now with a sore shoulder, like he had last year, would the team really be in any different shape? Im not saying the Royals should trade him for nothing but if they can get blue chip prospects who they can build around they should definitely move himBy the way I dont even really believe the Yankee offered Montero because that would be a gross overpay for Soria but either way im thrilled that this deal wont be happening

    • CosaOne 5 years ago

      According to Baseball Reference Dee Brown didnt make it to AA until the second half of his year 21 season but what on earth does he have to do with Montero? He is a 5’11 outfielder who didnt make it for whatever reason not a 6’4 240 lbs catcher/DH/1st baseman? None of these guys are certainties to make it but guys who hit like Montero at his young age have a higher probability to make it to the bigs and produce.

      I can give you a few examples of relievers who dominated for a year or two and then turned back into pumpkins if you like? Would that somehow diminish how you value Soria? because thats what you are trying to do here.

      On a team like the Royals whats more important young cost controlled players with huge upside or a closer (albeit a good one) who is saving meaningless games? Are they going to build a team around Soria?

      • jedietrich11 5 years ago

        im just saying. ranked 11th overall prospect. dee brown was supposed to the sh*t…. why give up one of the few certainties on a team for a huge question mark positionally and hitting-wise…..and what the heck, he’s 240 pounds @ age 20. eek, im not sure if thats a GOOD thing. …..and soria is not your classic closer…. 90 mile an hour fastball that he controls to a tee…. with 3 other above average pitches…. so it’s not like brad lidge or george sherill throwing 96 mile an hour cheese with one out pitch that they can’t really throw for a strike…. also, the royals have been battling with the question of whether to make soria a starter (therefore more “valuable” in manys eyes). he has the stuff to be a great starter with 4 quality pitches (so that’s almost like having a SP prospect too)

        • CosaOne 5 years ago

          Really the only thing Dee Brown and Jesus Montero have in common is they both are male and play baseball. Different positions and bodytypes.

          Its great that he the throws 3-4 pitches but he still throws 1 inning a game IF his team is in the lead. Its only like acquiring a starting pitcher if the organization plans to move him to a different role after this season because its probably too late to stretch him out. Not to mention if hes throwing a 90 mph fastball as a reliever what will that look like if he starts?.

          I think the Royals should try and make him a start if they intend on keeping him, he will do more for the team if he could start. If your team is a 70 win club its much better to build a starting rotation then have a lock down closer

        • kcalltheway 5 years ago

          Soria’s fastball is 92-94. He has had trouble with his big curve this year. But the change up and slider have still been great. He’s actually got 6 pitches he can throw.

  32. baseballfreak25 5 years ago

    OMG! The Royals are going to win 130 games and the world series in either ’11or ’12 with all their homegrown talent! Give me a break, if they were all that good, why are they all still in the low minors? They have drafted stupidly high every year and out of all the players drafted they have one every other year to stick out. It just so happens that right now they have Grienke and Soria that they have managed to hold on to, just to burn their arms out playing for a glorified $60 million dollar high school team. Just keep your over valued pitchers until they are burned out and get nothing for them if you can find someone to take them, all the while you lose 100 games a year. Congratulations in advance for your outstanding winning solution.

    • kcalltheway 5 years ago

      Unless you consider all small market teams the Yankee’s AAAA teams then I have no idea what you are talking about. Moose, Kila, Coleman, Hardy (to a lesser extent Lough Perez) in AAA then in AA you have Hosmer, Giavotella, Robinson, Montgomery (when he is done with his rehab) Duffy (when he is done with his rehab) Crow, Dwyer (lesser extent with Sisk, Osuna, Keatining and Swaggerty). And then the rest of the top level prospects are in High A ball that would be Myers, Colon, Lamb, Melville, Smith (also Navarro, Baumann, Chapman, Paukivouts).

      So is it safe to say that you’re a NY Yankee’s fan that made a snarky comment based on the major league talent and no knowledge of their farm system. Because if you actually did some reading you’d find out that the Royals are already top 5 if not number 1 in baseball right now.

      • kcalltheway 5 years ago

        John Lamb just got the bump to AA. The Royals AA, as soon as Montgomery and Duffy finish their rehab, will have the best rotation in the minors Monty, Lamb, Dwyer, Duffy and Crow.

  33. jedietrich11 5 years ago

    additionally, the royals have been trying to live down their reputation of giving up ALL there good players… years back, imagine: sweeney, beltran, damon, dye, ibanez….. the royals got ripped for giving away those players….

  34. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    1) Mo is not having the best year of his career. He’s had better FIP, xFIP, and WAR numbers in multiple seasons; although I do agree that he is “un-human.”
    ———————-

    I’m not picking on the poster but I was looking at Mo’s era today and then remembered this post. Mo has a 0.96 ERA this year w/ a 0.63 whip and is 20/22 in save/save opps this year. He’s only allowed 23 runners in 36.2 IP and batters are hitting .137 against him. Damn…..Mariano has spoiled the hell out of us. Can you imagine how tough it is for him to impress us anymore than he has already? Damn I’ve got a man crush on him. Dos Equis beer should be using this guy as their spokesperson.

    “If Mariano were to strike you out on 3 straight cutters you would have to fight the urge to thank him”.

    “If an umpire even thought of calling a ball four on Mariano he should immediately wake up and apologize”.

    You get the point.

  35. aap212 5 years ago

    Joe Mauer and Myers have always had strong catching skills to go with their frames, and saying a guy is more likely to stay at catcher than Montero is not saying much at all. The fact that Myers is hitting well and getting promoted aggressively actually bodes for a move. His receiving skills need so much more work than his hitting that they may move him to another position just so that he doesn’t get slowed down too much. Besides, so many bat-first catchers that stay behind the plate get their offensive development so thrown out of whack that if you think his bat can be special, you might really be better off moving him. Normally I’d say maximize positional value, but the guy’s probably never going to be a *good* defensive catcher and I’m a little tainted by just having read that Ben Davis is about to become a pitcher… speaking of tall bat-first catchers.

  36. Yankees420 5 years ago

    As for the Bryce Harper comment…..Fangraphs actually had a really interesting article about maximizing value and how you could actually get more value by putting Harper in the OF because he is likely to have a longer career, and thus provide value over a greater period of time. Not saying I completely agree with it, but just that it was interesting. I’ll try to find the link.

    Edit: I found the link: link to fangraphs.com

  37. BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

    Actually, most of those offers were turned down not because Montero was included, but because either:
    A:In the case of Roy Halladay, nothing else was offered. It takes more than one top prospect to get a year and a half of a Cy Young winner.
    B:In the case of Cliff Lee, one of the lesser players was injured, and the Rangers came in with a guy that was already in the majors and had a greater need for a 1st baseman than they did a catcher.
    C:Now, in the case of Soria, unless they have a catcher coming up, the Royals…I don’t know, I’ve got nothing for this. Montero plus prospects is enough for me as a GM to deal Soria.

  38. Well the Yankees don’t make up the minors Ranks theme self and if he refuse Montero for Soria, then the one who needs to check him self is the Royals GM.

    Also, Joba is still young and is just having a bad season, which can happen to any one. I guess you would have trade Cano when he had a bad season too.

  39. except nothing about Montero’s numbers say that he won’t be a stud in the bigs. this isnt a 24 year old in his second year of AAA, this is a 20 year old, in his 1st AAA season, who is currently mashing a league where the average player is 4-5 years older than him.

    the reason why the past Montero offers failed are not because of him, but because of the yankees refusal to part with other top prospects with him. Since it is quite apparent that the rest of the league demands double from the yanks what they ultimately get in a return.

  40. CosaOne 5 years ago

    Right and the Rangers also turned down Robinson Cano and instead requested Joaquin Arias. How’d that turn out? Just because a team turns down a deal for a player doesnt make him bad, there are a ton of factors involved in these trades so your oversimplification isnt valid. No one and I mean no one considered Ian Kennedy a potential CY young so stop with the unnecessary hyperbole. Now what? I guess they will have to just be content being defending World Series Champions who have the best record in the MLB at the moment. I know it must be rough to be in their shoes….

    (edited for spelling)

  41. Dylan 5 years ago

    Montero is projected as a DH, not a catcher. Will Myers is young, but is one of their best prospects and he is a catcher. They also have Butler (who is an aweful fielder, but a great hitter = DH).

  42. greggpf 5 years ago

    Exactly. With Posada getting older and a need to backfill the catcher position… you would think that if the Yankees valued Montero as much as they want other teams to that he would be “untouchable”.

  43. BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

    I know he’s projected as a DH, but I honestly could not think of any explanation for turning him down. I mean maybe the Royals farm will come full circle and make them contend by the time his contract ends, but call me skeptical of the Royals’s chances so long as Dayton Moore is their GM

  44. defensive liability only goes so far, and it lessens the blow when a prospect can hit like him.

    would you rather have mike piazza or jose molina?

  45. It’s not that Montero doesn’t want to switch to 1B, but moreso that the Yankees don’t want to switch him to first. With Teix under team control for a while, they have space at catcher before 1st. Besides the fact that he’ll be much more valuable as a great hitting catcher than he would be as a 1B.

  46. Except the fact that he won’t stick as a catcher in the Bigs and the Yankees and every other team KNOW this.

  47. Guest 5 years ago

    You sir, have made the most intelligent comment on this forum today.

  48. withpower 5 years ago

    Austine Romine having a nice showing with the bat this year is also probably going a ways to make trading Montero palatable. Gary Sanchez absolutely annihilating Rookie ball right now probably doesn’t hurt either.

  49. Yankees420 5 years ago

    Actually, no one can “KNOW” that. They can project it, bet on it, count on it, but not a single person has the ability to “KNOW” whether or not Montero will stick at C in the big leagues.

    Personally, I think that if Montero can become as good defensively as Posada (which isn’t all that good), then he’ll have a spot on this team.

  50. BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

    Yeah, it’s just a matter of developing receiving skills, which is what Montero lacks. He can learn, though.

  51. BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

    I’m really surprised that, by now, the Yanks haven’t made an attempt to move Jesus into the outfield to see if he can develop even below average defense out there, since Romine’s game all around is very good.

  52. Yankees420 5 years ago

    True, the Nats only drafted the first 6 years of Harper, I still think it’s a good article (posted link above) and something that should be considered. At the end of the article it refers to wasting years of development, which I think is a key factor. Harper is likely to get to the big leagues faster as an OF than as a C, and if he’s anywhere close to being as good as advertised the Nats will want to lock him up past 6 years. Again, I’m not saying I completely agree with the article, just that I like the fact that he questioned the notion of a players offensive output being constant regardless of defensive position.

  53. See above. The royals do not have a lot of prospects threatening to replace Soria. They have a lot of other power hitting prospects at 1B/DH that project well at the major league level. Montero is not that valuable for the Royals to build a winning team. Got a real offensive catcher (not a DH in drag), SP, or CF prospect even close to major league ready? Then, you might be able to talk.

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