Odds & Ends: Mets, Collins, Minaya, Pirates, Rays

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65 Comments on "Odds & Ends: Mets, Collins, Minaya, Pirates, Rays"


Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

I disagree with that…So this means that Jeremy Hellickson will not be in the Rays rotation next season?

Reaper87
4 years 9 months ago

How often does a teams opening day rotation stay intact? There’s always injuries or ineffectiveness, having 6 guys is a luxury. Let one start in the pen and go from there

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

I disagree. They could turn one of those starters in to a good young first baseman, and a couple of relievers…

For example…Matt Garza for Jeremy Jeffress and Mat Gamel…
Matt Garza for Logan Ondrusek and Yonder Alonso

Dylan
4 years 9 months ago

Mat Gamel would be a nice pickup

bustersposey
4 years 9 months ago

the brewers called. they want to know if you have the authority to do this… RIGHT NOW…

Sixto_Lezcano
4 years 9 months ago

I wouldn’t be a huge fan of that trade because I think Garza is one of the most overrated pitchers in the majors and Jeffress is one of the most underrated pitchers in the minors, but I guess the Brewers have to take what they can get at this point.

Sixto_Lezcano
4 years 9 months ago

I wouldn’t be a huge fan of that trade because I think Garza is one of the most overrated pitchers in the majors and Jeffress is one of the most underrated pitchers in the minors, but I guess the Brewers have to take what they can get at this point.

Sam_Lee
4 years 9 months ago

Why?

Sam_Lee
4 years 9 months ago

Why?

Sam_Lee
4 years 9 months ago

The Brewers and the Reds won’t do that is probably the reason they don’t happen. Keep Garza.

elclashcombo
4 years 9 months ago

As the cliche goes, “you can never have too much pitching”. Honestly, it just takes a DL stint for one and a slump for another and suddenly your rotation is shot. Having a 6th guy is a great insurance policy.

MLB_in_the_Know
4 years 9 months ago

The real Ruben Amaro’s five worst moves:
1) Trading away Lee
2) Signing Howard to a 5 year $125 million contract
3) Signing Brad Lidge to a 3 year $37.5 million contract
4) Signing Raul Ibanez to a 3 year $31.5 million contract
5) Signing Joe Blanton to a 3 year $24 million contract

4 years 9 months ago

srsly. In what world does Howard’s contract extension not make the top five? It’s arguably number one with its potential to cripple the Phillies financially over the next half-decade.

MLB_in_the_Know
4 years 9 months ago

Honestly, it might be number one, because the Lee trade only effected one season, the Howard deal kills five.

Dylan
4 years 9 months ago

It could, but if they increase their payroll each year and get their young talent up in the bigs, it won’t cripple their team at all…

MLB_in_the_Know
4 years 9 months ago

Yea, let’s assume that the team increases payroll every year and that all of their prospects pan out, that’s a great idea.

O971
4 years 9 months ago

That’s would be the key for any team though isn’t it? How much more is ownership willing to spend over last year’s 138$M opening day payroll?Ryan Howard is not very likely to put up enough value to come close to his contract (He’s never put up a season worth $25 Million, according to fangraphs). While it’s certainly possible to work around a bad contract it’s not an optimal position to be in, and planning for prospects (most of whom are in the lower minors) to work out to provide excess value to cover is not the best plan either when spending resources more wisely would allow you to have both your prospects and spend on improving your team now.

BLB25
4 years 9 months ago

….said as they watch Werth leave

myname_989
4 years 9 months ago

At least know what you’re talking about. Brad Lidge signed an extension with the Phillies in July of ’08 under Pat Gillick’s reign. It may be easy to say that it was a bad deal now, but at the time, Lidge was en route to a perfect season as the Phillies first dominant closer since god knows when.

Secondly, I’m going to disagree on your number two. While I agree it was a bad signing, the blame shouldn’t be put on Ruben Amaro directly (although I assume he was partially responsible). Ownership was largely in favor of locking up Howard long term and in favor of paying that contract. My guess is that they wanted to get him signed before guys like Fielder and Gonzalez signed their deals, as stupid as that may sound.

icedrake523
4 years 9 months ago

Minaya was never in a hurry to do anything so that’s no surprise.

Breeno
4 years 9 months ago

Solid coaching staff moves, not sure what kind of coach the new hitting coach is but someone who hit well professionally usually would seem like a better choice. I like Nick Ley as bench coach, though.

Smrtbusnisman04
4 years 9 months ago

The first task is toimprove Avg. with RISP.

Breeno
4 years 9 months ago

The reason it is bad is because the hitters are poor, so the first thing is too get better hitters and pitchers and coaches.

Smrtbusnisman04
4 years 9 months ago

That’s not true!! Don’t you dare say that about Cutch, Walker, Tabata, or Pedro! Their young and they need to be taught how to wear down pitchers!!!

He have the pieces to create an aggressive offensive team!

Breeno
4 years 9 months ago

The reason it is bad is because the hitters are poor, so the first thing is too get better hitters and pitchers and coaches.

Smrtbusnisman04
4 years 9 months ago

Great decision Clint on bringing back Ray Searage as pitching coach. He seems to be the only soul who can resurrect the career of Charlie Morton. Take that Joe Kerrigan!! Smuck!

As long as Don Long has no influence on the Pirates hittiers, I’m confident looking towards the Pirates future. Contention for the 2012 season now doesn’t seem so unobtainable.

SteelCityResident13
4 years 9 months ago

Hurdle is going to do all of the decisions on the hitters, you must have a known hitting coach though.

Breeno
4 years 9 months ago

Why? That’s just a waste of money

Ian_Smell
4 years 9 months ago

I sure won’t miss Tony Beasley’s ever-spinning windmill at third.

Breeno
4 years 9 months ago

What will be missed is his rendition of “peanut butter jelly time!”

ZeroZeroZero
4 years 9 months ago

Omar should be in a hurry to take one of those job offers before the people offering realize what theyre doing. Really, how is this clown up for any front office position anywhere? The dude could screw up a sandwich.

elclashcombo
4 years 9 months ago

Minaya and Childress should start their own sports management consulting service.

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

maybe the other organizations know more about Omar Minaya than the fans on MLBTR do…

4 years 9 months ago

what is with your undying love for omar minaya?

adropofvenom
4 years 9 months ago

He’s still a highly respected scout in this league.

Problem with Omar, is he’s an awful negotiator. As long as you put him in a field that suits his strengths (scouting) and not one that uses his weaknesses (negotiating), you’d be a better organization having someone like that around.

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

i have debated this to no end…and in thinking about it…while scouting is one of his better attributes…i dont think negotiating is one of his worst…i just think there are 100 things a GM has to do well for an org to succeed…and Omar hasn’t spent enough time under a successful mentor to do those things well..

I think Omar would be best served under a successful organization like the red-sox or twins for a few years to understand how a successful team is run. its not just signing players or draft picks, its the whole philosophy on developing them as well.

im an omar fan but i will call a duck a duck. omar is def best as a scout right now, but in the right situation he can def be groomed into a top GM. had the mets hired Sandy in 04, with Omar as his right hand man, he would be ready in 2011 to take over a team that has structure. Omar doesnt have any experience laying down a foundation like that…its almost as if he was playing GM on MLB 2010 rather than building an org from the ground up. part of that is playing in NY.( win now ) part of that is not having the leverage to tell ownership to be patient. ( inexperience and no other GM offers )

adropofvenom
4 years 9 months ago

He’s still a highly respected scout in this league.

Problem with Omar, is he’s an awful negotiator. As long as you put him in a field that suits his strengths (scouting) and not one that uses his weaknesses (negotiating), you’d be a better organization having someone like that around.

ZeroZeroZero
4 years 9 months ago

First off, I dont care one way or the other what Omar’s ethnic background is. Its completely irrelevant. Also, how could anybody bring up the latino race card in reference to baseball? The latino presence is greater in the MLB than pretty much anywhere else in the US.
Second, I dont think Omar is all that great as far as scouting goes either. Who have the Mets drafted under his time running the show who has turned into anything? There are a few that are still have time and could turn into productive MLB players, but as it stands now the list is pretty small. Throw on top of that what could be the worst trade of young talent in the history of baseball (the Cliff Lee/Grady Sizemore/Brandon Phillips for Colon deal), and the trading of Jason Bay, Carl Pavano, and Chris Young for nothing in particular, and you really have to question Omar’s value to any team at all. I really dont think he knows what hes doing.

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

i think trading away josh hamilton for cash considerations ( cubs ) might rank up there as being slightly worse than lee/sizemore/phillips for colon…everyone was under the impression the expos were being contracted and the expos got a good 2nd half out of colon, who then traded again. they were in a pennent race with a payroll bordering 48 million.

edit: and yes the latino presence is greater in MLB than any other sport…please explain why there are still fans asking the mets to get rid of losmets on their website. i feel like im in arizona border patrol when i go to a mets game.

ZeroZeroZero
4 years 9 months ago

First off, I dont care one way or the other what Omar’s ethnic background is. Its completely irrelevant. Also, how could anybody bring up the latino race card in reference to baseball? The latino presence is greater in the MLB than pretty much anywhere else in the US.
Second, I dont think Omar is all that great as far as scouting goes either. Who have the Mets drafted under his time running the show who has turned into anything? There are a few that are still have time and could turn into productive MLB players, but as it stands now the list is pretty small. Throw on top of that what could be the worst trade of young talent in the history of baseball (the Cliff Lee/Grady Sizemore/Brandon Phillips for Colon deal), and the trading of Jason Bay, Carl Pavano, and Chris Young for nothing in particular, and you really have to question Omar’s value to any team at all. I really dont think he knows what hes doing.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 9 months ago

“Bartlett’s availability will likely have a negative impact on the market for Marco Scutaro”

So let me get this straight… as supply goes up and demand stays the same then the price goes down. Yay! We’ve now reiterated one of the first things you learn in Economics 101.

moonraker45
4 years 9 months ago

SS’s are 3.128/gallon

Marchetti89
4 years 9 months ago

Personaly i thought Omar Minaya was hired becuase he is latino and lets face it there are plenty of good latino baseball players and that can give you leverage. He just happened to make a lot of bad deals that the average fan could have told you was bad at the time Perez and Castillo are really about it but a professional GM shouldnt make 2 contract offers that a fan could tell you was a bad idea, they shouldn’t make any.

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

for example this article written on may 2008 about billy wagner ripping into a teammate and insinuating it was carlos delgado…even though billy never names carlos…and says nothing indicating it was carlos…other than looking in the direction of his locker…although that could mean ryan church…who was next to carlos and didnt give an interview that day either..

“the Mets had a clubhouse eruption Thursday. Closer Billy Wagner looked across the room, in the direction of the vacant locker of Carlos Delgado, and blurted:

“Someone tell me why the —- you’re talking to the closer. I didn’t even play. They’re over there, not being interviewed.”

Wagner paused for dramatic effect. Then, in a scene reminiscent of last year’s Paul Lo Duca comments, minus the racial overtones, the closer sarcastically added: “I got it. They’re gone. —-ing shocker.”

The Mets, who lost to the Nationals, 1-0, at Shea have seen this kind of resentment before. Just last season, with the media burden disproportionately falling on him and certain teammates, including Wagner and David Wright, the then-Met Lo Duca said: “It’s the same three or four people every day. Nobody else wants to talk. Some of these guys have to start talking. They speak English, believe me.”

Delgado was yesterday’s final batter. He lined out to first, and watched as Carlos Beltran was doubled off third for the final out. Yet when the clubhouse opened to media 10 minutes later, Delgado apparently already had left. Media members who were huddled around Delgado’s locker waiting for him were informed of his departure by Wright. Meanwhile, all week Johan Santana ducked inquiries about pitching at Yankee Stadium, at least from New York-based media, leaving teammates such as Wagner to talk about heading to the Bronx.

Wagner is no stranger to creating headlines. The closer also caused a stir when he questioned teammate Oliver Perez’s mental toughness for failing to complete two innings April 30 against the Pirates at Shea. During that blunt interview, Wagner likened talking with Perez to a conversation with a wall. That resulted in a meeting in the manager’s office in Phoenix, during which Willie Randolph asked Wagner to keep matters in-house.

Of course, an hour after speaking with reporters yesterday, Wagner was on his weekly ESPN-1050 radio guest spot, promising there would be a conversation with guilty teammates today.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 9 months ago

I really hate it when people play the race card when that’s not the issue. That said I really hope you’re bring up the name Shapiro because of Mark Shapiro rather than for any other reason. Look, there was a lot of jokes about Minaya wanting an all Latino team because for a while he was using Latino culture as a selling point for some players. Hell, if you want a world series team these days you pretty much need a star from Central or South America because those are the guys who’ve been playing baseball since they could walk. So no one really cares about a team with a large Latino population.No matter what race Minaya is and no matter the color of his skin there is one simple fact you’re discounting: He was a horrible GM for the Mets. This isn’t a race issue.

And don’t diss Machete because Machete don’t text.

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

omar is 10x better than Jim Hendry…Jim Hendry seems to get a pass here on these boards…why is that ?

by the way, name me another GM that takes a team that was bottom of the basement for 3 years straight…with no minor league system…and immediately has them in contention 4 years straight…

i’ll wait patiently for ur answer…

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

omar is 10x better than Jim Hendry…Jim Hendry seems to get a pass here on these boards…why is that ?

by the way, name me another GM that takes a team that was bottom of the basement for 3 years straight…with no minor league system…and immediately has them in contention 4 years straight…

i’ll wait patiently for ur answer…

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

“So no one really cares about a team with a large Latino population.”

again….not when the GM is white…no one cares…when the GM is latino…it appears as if he is looking out for his own…to a degree i can understand the logic…

If Omar was from India…and found a way to get 10 guys from India on the mets…and they sucked…i can understand why people would get riled up…

but omar is latino…which happens to be the same race where many of the up and coming stars are coming from….and i honestly think there are people who really closed their eyes and ears to any evidence that was to the contrary….
if omar signed / traded for a white player…mum was the word…

Infield Fly
4 years 9 months ago

I really hate it when people play the race card when that’s not the issue.…no one really cares about a team with a large Latino population.Yeah, Omar did a pretty bad job when you sum it up, and I have no problem saying as much! However among those who critique his performance on this board (and elsewhere) there is one phenomenon that consistently stands out (and please hang with this ’til I finish): There are a number of folks who repeatedly bring up his racial background as if it were relevant to his performance – and THAT in itself is a colossal example of playing the “race card” when it is not the issue. I just saw another set of posts about it yesterday. It’s just endless.In addition to this I’d like to point out that I go to Mets games regularly and am constantly surrounded by grumbling — not about the performance of players on the field, but about the fact that they ARE latinos. It is not subtle and it is not rare. One example is when a woman sitting next to me leaned over and mumbled to me about how “our” problem (meaning the Mets) was all the latino players we had on the team. This is a common sentiment, and I have taken time to set people straight because I’m sick of it. A REAL fan judges performance — not skin color or race.Meanwhile, when have you ever heard someone go on and on about the “whiteness” of Jim Hendry, or Dayton Moore (or any other white GM whose performance and/or team’s performance leaves a lot to be desired) as a prime factor that “causes” them to be ineffective as GM? When – if ever – do you see fans posting jokes focusing on their “whiteness” as if that were the primary reason why transactions are ineffective, etc.? The Mets have their share of ineffective players who are white. When do you hear them critiqued on the basis of their whiteness? The answer is that you DON’T. I’m there listening all the time, and it just isn’t happening.I often enjoy your posts @’purple, and I believe it when YOU say that you don’t care about a team having a large latino population. However, you clearly don’t speak for a considerable number of fans that never miss an opportunity to disparage Omar and/or various players on the Mets, purely on the basis of being latino. Obviously a lot of fans have a lot of “growing up” to do in that respect. Thanks for not being one of them.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 9 months ago

Since when does Hendry get a pass? Despite the loudest posters on this site are yanks and Red Sox fans, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cubs fanbase is a major chunk of the contributors on this site. And of the Cubs fans on this site, I have yet to hear something positive said about Hendry in the last 3-4 years. I’d say they’re both awful GMs.

Three years btw, the Mets were contenders from 2006-2008. Andrew Freidman created a minor league system through patience. Brian Sabean did use the same tactics that Minaya used, in other words he signed some awful contracts, but he knew how to scout and what do you know, they’re still partying in San Fran. John Daniels built a world series contender using a farm and smart trades. My point being you want to say Minaya is a success because the Mets had a few winning years despite Minaya made a couple of deals that didn’t and wouldn’t work out in the long run, didn’t build a good farm, and had a large number of trade busts… and on top of it all you want to say he’s being crucified because he’s not white. Yeah…

start_wearing_purple
4 years 9 months ago

Since when does Hendry get a pass? Despite the loudest posters on this site are yanks and Red Sox fans, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cubs fanbase is a major chunk of the contributors on this site. And of the Cubs fans on this site, I have yet to hear something positive said about Hendry in the last 3-4 years. I’d say they’re both awful GMs.

Three years btw, the Mets were contenders from 2006-2008. Andrew Freidman created a minor league system through patience. Brian Sabean did use the same tactics that Minaya used, in other words he signed some awful contracts, but he knew how to scout and what do you know, they’re still partying in San Fran. John Daniels built a world series contender using a farm and smart trades. My point being you want to say Minaya is a success because the Mets had a few winning years despite Minaya made a couple of deals that didn’t and wouldn’t work out in the long run, didn’t build a good farm, and had a large number of trade busts… and on top of it all you want to say he’s being crucified because he’s not white. Yeah…

petrie000
4 years 9 months ago

yes, Hendry’s so much worse than Minaya… only he’s actually won something and has a farm system. Clearly much worse.

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

contender = being within 3 games of a playoff spot in august/september
mets were in that distinction for Omar’s first 4 seasons as GM.

as for Sabaen, he missed the playoffs 6 years in a row…try that in NY’s win now mentality and he would’ve been given the boot in year 3 or 4…

john daniels first year he was under .500…his 2nd year he was under .500…his third year he was under .500…his fourth year he was over .500, but still missed the playoffs…his 5th year they break the barrier…

big difference.

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

what did Hendry win ??
mets in 6 seasons have 4 over .500
cubs in 9 seasons have 4 over .500
u think the cubs have a better farm system than the mets ?!
lol
ok

petrie000
4 years 9 months ago

2 division titles in in ’07 and ’08. that’s two more than Minaya has with the mets. You’re gonna bring up the fact that the got swept from the playoffs both years… but i’d just counter with reminding you how epicly the Mets choked both those years, so don’t go there.

And according to Baseball Prospectus (decided not just amateur opinions), the Cubs system ranked 8th in all baseball… so yeah, i think the Cubs system is much better right now than the Mets.

I don;t think there’s any question that Hendry’s had more success with the Cubs than Minaya did with the Mets.

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

umm…u neglect the fact that Hendry won his first division title 6 years
after he signed on…Omar took a team that was in last place and had them in
1st place in 2 seasons…then had them within a game or 2 of winning the
division 2 years right after that…
and no ur wrong…i wouldnt blame a GM for his team getting bumped out in
the playoffs sweep or not…playoffs are too much of a crapshoot…

and as far as failed transactions…trading away Rookie of the Year
Dontrelle Willis…trading away Ricky Nolasco for Juan Pierre ?!!?
trading away JOSH HAMILTON FOR CASH CONSIDERATIONS !?! LMAOOOOOOOOO…met
fans gripe about Brian Bannister…i dont hear a peep from cub fans or any
fans about them trading an MVP candidate for cash considerations…

Signing Soriano (8 year, $136 million ) / Zambrano contracts (five-year, 91.5
million ) those 2 make Castillo/Perez look like minor league deals…
signing Milton Bradley to a 3 year 30 mil contract ?!!? ..Fukodome to a 4
year 48 mil contract?!!? LMAO…

are u seriously even debating the failure of Mr. Jim Hendry…dude would’ve
been ran out of NY quicker than u can say Taxi for even ONE of those
moves…
people get on Omar’s case for Kelvin Escobar 1 or 2 million dollar
deal…Hendry wasted 303 million dollars on those 4 players…

my point is, Hendry gets 1/10th of the criticism that Omar does….and im
wondering with a track record either as bad or worse…why is that the
case…?…

petrie000
4 years 9 months ago

Willis didn’t turn out so great, Nolasco’s not exactly a perennial all-star, and considering the Cubs had absolutely no need for another outfielder, they never would have taken Hamilton in the Rule 5 if the Reds hadn’t offered to pay 25,000 for him.

of course you’d fail to mention some of Hendry’s finer moves : Derek Lee for for Hee-Sop Choi, Aramis Ramirez for Jose Hernandez. Or His signing of Ted Lilly when everybody else was after Barry Zito and Jason Schmidt.

But all that’s irrelevant, because 2 division titles is more than 0, isn’t it? Winning a division title means you’ve obviously done something right as a GM, where as winning squat usually means you haven’t. Every GM makes some good moves and some bad moves… but as the Giants proved this year nobody cares about the bad moves if you win.

Hendry’s not the greatest GM in the game, i’m not going out on that limb… but winning division titles buys you some benefit of the doubt. Beating division rivals buys you a few down years. Winning those silly little banners puts butts in the seats and keeps the owners and fans happy. Hendry, like him or not, has proven he can do that, Minaya never did. Hendry therefore earns himself another chance, where as Minaya earned himself a big fat severance check. How many other teams you think would jump at the chance to have Hendry’s level of success… and how many you think want Minaya’s?

This must be a Cubs/Mets rivalry thing, but all Mets fans love to pick Hendry as their ‘Minaya ain’t so bad’ comparison… well, what about Dayton Moore of the Royals? his teams gone no where and nobody gets all up and arms about that.

this answers you question very eloquently, i think : Cubs fans don’t want Hendry’s head, because hendry’s won something and could, concievably, win something in the future. Mets fans hate Minaya because he didn’t win and they had no confidence that he ever would.

Minaya was a bad GM, his record speaks for itself. Get over it.

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

basically.

all this stuff started getting drummed in 2005…Adam Rubin’s book Pedro, Carlos, and Omar: The Story of a Season in the Big Apple and the Pursuit of Baseball’s Top Latino Stars along with most of his articles were race baiting and stirring the pot…

u didnt see any books in 07 that said…Barry, Aaron and Brian: The Story of a Season in San Fran and the pursuit of Baseball’s Top White Stars.

Infield Fly
4 years 9 months ago

u didnt see any books in 07 that said…Barry, Aaron and Brian: The Story of a Season in San Fran and the pursuit of Baseball’s Top White Stars.

You don’t ever see such a book — no matter what year it is.

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

2 division title in 9 years …5 seasons UNDER .500
Omar had 1 division title in 6 years with 2 seasons UNDER .500…

the cubs had 5 seasons out of 9 UNDER .500…thats around 60% under…40% over
the mets had 2 seasons out of 6 UNDER .500…thats around 33%…67% over…

sounds like winning isnt the only criteria here…

and i dont mean to pick on the cubs…i went to wrigley twice in 06 when the mets played there…the fans were throwing bottles on the field after the mets hit 2 grand slams in the same inning. i actually ROOT for the cubs when the mets are not in the race.

i only use the cubs as an example because they are a major market team with just as much dollars to spend as the mets. its not fair to hold the pirates or royals to the same standard. its not that i have anything against the cubs. I actually enjoy rooting for the underdog.

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

and trust…if omar traded nolasco and willis for nothing and josh hamilton away for cash considerations, it would be on his tombstone.

bad enough as it is, they give him grief over brian bannister lol

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

hmmm…honestly…MLB rosters are going in the same direction as other parts of our workforce…outsourced to cheap labor….and with that said, that workforce has less options…and less leverage…and are much easily controlled. ( see if they care about being called a SCAB in the event of a strike)…
in the future, White American players will be to MLB rosters what they are to NBA rosters…so you really may see something like this title in the future….

petrie000
4 years 9 months ago

he didn’t trade them for nothing, he traded them for Matt Clement, who had a few good seasons with the Cubs. And seriously, get over the Hamilton thing, the Cubs didn’t want him, they didn’t trade for him, they selected him in the Rule 5 draft as part of a pre-arranged deal with the Reds. Hendry didn’t ‘trade Hamilton away’.

But again, you miss the point entirely. Being the GM isn’t just about trades and contracts, it’s about making money and keeping the fans happy as well. The Cubs have spent a lot of money, but the fans keep showing up to cheer for the team and spend money at Wrigley. This makes the bad contracts a wash for Hendry, since the Cubs are still a very profitable team. The fans have recent success to give them hope about future success.

Minaya did not do that with the Mets. Sure, they had some good seasons… but nobody gives out prizes for finishing about .500. You don’t get a banner to unveil the next season, you can’t build a marketing campaign around it. Mets fans were no longer filling Shea stadium, which means less money to offset Minaya’s bad contracts.

Hendry’s probably got one more year to do something with the Cubs, then he’ll probably find himself in the same place Minaya was, but because of his recent success he’s not, nor should he, face the same fan backlash Minaya did.

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

ummm…making money? the mets BROKE ATTENDENCE records in 2006-2008 under
Minaya…

matt clement was 33-35 over his 3 year period with the cubs…
during the first 4 years, Dontrelle was 58-39 with a 3.44 ERA

I think its safe to say the Fish robbed u on that one pal..LOL

u have alot of nerve ….get over the Hamilton thing??!!? ( didnt someone
JUST bring up the jason bay trade for the 19,238th time)

bad contracts are ok cuz the fans keep showing up?!!? ( mets broke
attendence records in 07 and 08…still didnt keep the hounds off Omar)
its ok to bring up castillo and perez ( who’s contracts are PUNY compared to
soriano/zambrano )…its ok not cuz they suck, but b/c their attendence went
down?!!?…and b/c the cubs attendence doesnt go down…they can forever
sign wack players and their GM not be held accountable…( no wonder u guys
take 100 years to win lol )

the fans have recent success ?!!?
the cubs went from 97 wins and getting bumped out the first round…to 83
wins and no playoffs…to 75 wins and no playoffs…
thats a 22 win DROP-OFF in the past 3 seasons…

do u realize how poor your argument is looking right now!?!

petrie000
4 years 9 months ago

I didn’t bring up Bay or any of Minaya’s other moves because i think it’s a hollow argument, ‘who’s bad trades were worse’… all i said was every general manager makes good trades and bad trades. You keep digging for every little flaw of Hendry’s as some sort of validation for Minaya’s flaws. Both have made mistakes, Hendry’s successes are just more recent than Minaya’s, so why should Hendry take more flak than Minaya?You’re ignoring all the very valid reasons why Minaya was under fire : the ever rising payroll with the ever decreasing win/loss record. The ’08 season where his team blew a huge lead to a hated division rival (who then won the World Series), The fact that the Mets are competing against the Yankees for fans and press time, and the Yankees are winning world series while the Mets are a punchline. You’re a Mets fan, you know the expectations are ridiculously high and the fans incredibly impatient. the Mets under Minaya were chronic under-achievers and the farm system failed to produce… Minaya’s firing was overdue, quite frankly.The Cubs are, whether Mets fans like it or not, resurgent. We spent a lot of years going no where under the Trib ownership and in recent years we’ve become relevant again. Sure, no world series title, but for the first time in a long time Cubs fans feel it’s actually possible. The fanbase is more patient, Our rivals (Cardinals, White Sox, etc.) aren’t hoisting trophies, our media isn’t as obsessive.My argument focuses more on just the very narrow sphere you want it to, ‘how can i prove the Cubs suck’. My argument is looking at both teams as a whole, where there are now as compared to where they’ve been. Being the GM is about building an organization, majors, minors, scouting, fanbase. The Cubs, under Hendry, have made progress is all those areas. The team is better, the fans more interested, the farm system more robust. The Mets…. not so much. You said the Mets set attendance records in ’08… which proves my point that the fans aren’t as interested in 2010. I saw the games on TV, the half empty, dead stadium. Ike Davis has been good so far, but besides him what’s in the future for the Mets? You wanted to know why Hendry ‘gets a pass’ and Minaya got crucified… there it is in a nutshell. Unfair to Minaya? maybe, but he knew the Mets was a high pressure job when he took it. Hendry took over an organization that was irrelevant and made it relevant, Minaya took over a team with World Series aspirations and took it nowhere. Welcome to the realities of the GM job.You wanna refute any of that, or just continue obsessing over past Marlins/Cubs deals?