Farm System Rankings

Baseball America's annual farm system rankings are out, with a few changes from their 2011 Handbook due to the Matt Garza trade.  The Rays' haul pushed them to #2 over the Braves, while the Cubs' losses knocked them from #8 to #16.

For more farm system rankings, check out ESPN's Keith Law and Baseball Prospectus' Kevin Goldstein.  Keep in mind that graduating prospects to the bigs is a bad thing for a team in these rankings, which as Law notes represent a snapshot.  Also, Goldstein provides haikus. 

If you look at rankings from all three side-by-side, you'll see that there is a consensus that the Royals, Rays, and Braves should be ranked #1, 2, and 3.  The Blue Jays, Yankees, and Reds have consensus top ten systems, with Toronto placing no worse than fifth.  There is also agreement that the Astros, Marlins, and Brewers belong in the bottom five.  Outliers: BA dislikes the A's and Angels more than the others, Law isn't as high on the Indians but likes the Cardinals and D'Backs, and BA likes the Dodgers more than the others.


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145 Responses to Farm System Rankings Leave a Reply

  1. MetsEventually 4 years ago

    Well, at least the Mets are moving up. Still light years from any of the NL East guys…

    • jp 4 years ago

      Meh. Baby steps. A few years of Sandy Alderson and we should keep climbing.

    • MB923 4 years ago

      Would definitely move up more if they trade Reyes

    • pflieger 4 years ago

      a good draft in June plus the benefits of dumping Beltran and Reyes at the July deadline will definitely get them moving up.

      • MB923 4 years ago

        Unless somehow the Mets are in contention at the trade deadline, I think trading Beltran and Reyes is a very smart move.

        • pflieger 4 years ago

          Perversely despite being a lifelong Met fan, I hope they are not in contention at the July deadline for the long term sake of the franchise. I do think they are an 80-85 win team and I’m just hoping they don’t get too “lucky” and are on pace for an 85-90 win season.

          • MB923 4 years ago

            An 85-90 win season Could be good enough to win a wild card though. You shouldn’t hope your team does bad. Worse comes to worst, if they are not traded, and if they have good years, offer them arbitration and they could possibly be Type A FA’s.

          • popular_mechanics_for_pitchers 4 years ago

            i highly doubt anybody is making the wildcard with 85 wins

          • MB923 4 years ago

            I don’t expect it too, but that’s why I said it Could, plus I said 85-90 so that does include 86, 87, 88, 89 and 90 lol

  2. raygunpunx 4 years ago

    Red Sox aren’t top 10? I’m shocked

    • hopefully this is sarcasm… but in the case that it isnt… what do you expect when you trade 4 of your top 6 prospects? A-Gon is definetly worth it when he resigns… theres enough gas in the tank to be competitive until the system gets re-stocked…

      • raygunpunx 4 years ago

        It was :) but to be serious what is Keith Law smoking? We all know he is a Red Sox guy so him putting them at 11 is no surprise but to put the Twins in the top 10 and to put both them and the Phillies ahead of the Yankees is a joke

        • MB923 4 years ago

          Actually he’s a Blue Jays guy. But it’s still an East Coast team, so maybe that’s why ESPN hired him :p

        • Fangaffes 4 years ago

          Did Keith Law include Ryan Kalish in his list of prospects? Kevin Goldstein didn’t, which might account for the discrepancy. Kalish would defintely be the best three star prospect, if not somewhere among the four stars.

          • RahZid 4 years ago

            I assume not since he isn’t rookie eligible. As a Red Sox fan, I’m perfectly content with our farm system. We have the prospects in the positions that we will have needs in the next 1-2 years.

          • MaineSox 4 years ago

            Plus a bunch of really young guys in Rookie ball and low A who have the “stuff” to move up a lot in the rankings if they have a good year, and a lot of early picks in what is supposed to be a very deep draft.

          • RahZid 4 years ago

            Completely agree. I’m very interested in seeing how Cecchini and Coyle do. Especially interested in seeing how Cecchini comes back from the ACL injury. Obviously those two are still ~4-5 years away given that they were drafted out of high school, but they should be fun to watch.

          • MaineSox 4 years ago

            Definitely. Personally I’m also interesting in seeing what Younginer and LeBlanc can do, specifically Younginer. If he can learn to repeat his delivery so he has better command I really think he could shoot all the way up to one of their top 3 prospects. He can already reach 97 at 20 years old with a 90mph 2-seamer, a 73mph 12-6 curve, and a low 80’s change. If he can learn to consistently locate them he has four plus pitches, dude could be legit.

          • RahZid 4 years ago

            Personally, I’m more interested in Hazelbaker than LaBlanc, but I think that’s just a difference of what you want from CF (Also, Hazelbaker is closer to being ML ready). Although I will say he needs to be more efficient with his steals (21.25% CS rate in 2010, 17 CS in 80 attempts).

            Anyway, I think we agree that the future of the farm looks bright, and should only get brighter after the upcoming draft.

          • MaineSox 4 years ago

            Yeah Hazelbaker looks good too I just like the fact that, while none of his skills are over the top good, LeBlanc is really well rounded with all of his tools being above average.

          • RahZid 4 years ago

            Agreed. Hazelbaker kind of reminds me of Ellsbury though, with slightly worse base running skills and slightly more power. I could see him taking over for Ells, if all goes well with his development. Unless of course Westmoreland picks up (mid way through the year) where he left off, then it’s anyones game.

        • PostMoBills 4 years ago

          Putting the Twins at 9 or 10 isn’t the greatest tragedy, but I would say they are 10-15 (probably 13-14), and behind the Yankees. It also depends if they classify Tsuyoshi Nishioka as a prospect, because people disagree on this.

        • Keith Law has made it publicly known that he is a Yankee fan.

          • if that is true, im sure you can back that up with a link.

          • MB923 4 years ago

            He grew up on LI and worked for the Blue Jays, so he’s probably either a Blue Jay, Yankee or Met fan.

      • RahZid 4 years ago

        Who exactly is this 4th top 6 prospect? Kelly, Rizzo, Fuentes, and Eric Patterson. One of these things is not like the others…….

        • andrewyf 4 years ago

          Casey Kelly counts as two prospects. Did you know he also played shortstop and was a good hitter in high school???

        • Im not a Sox follower… so i’m sorry… should have said 3 of the top 4… and not 4 of the top 6… either way… when you trade away high-end minor league talent, your system ranking takes a hit… either way it doesnt matter to the Sox, they have the pieces they need now, and the pieces in the minors to plug the holes that will be created soon enough with people leaving…

          • RahZid 4 years ago

            Agreed that the Sox are still fine, but how does not counting Patterson as a top prospect (which he isn’t), affect where Fuentes was ranked?

  3. arsenal908 4 years ago

    Toronto Blue Jays #4 . that is all.

    • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

      15 Spot move since 2009.

      • MB923 4 years ago

        It’s not fairly hard to take a huge drop up or get a huge boost in 1+ offseasons. Before the Matt Holiday trade, the Cardinals had the 8th best ranking at the start of the season (I forgot what site though unfortunately). The next offseason, they went down to 25th (possibly even lower)

        • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

          Oh there’s no doubt about that, however before JPR left I believe the Jays ranked in the bottom 3, so it’s just nice to see that the new GM has made it a priority to restock.

          Given the fact that he turned a bottom 5 to a top 5 with out having a complete fire sale, I’d say, not bad at all.

          • MB923 4 years ago

            Definitely not bad, now I’m sure the Mets fans are hoping good ol Sandy can do it. I think he should trade Reyes and Beltran at the deadline if they are not in contention.

          • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

            I agree, but the return will depend on what kind of year they have.

          • MB923 4 years ago

            What kind of year the Mets have or what kind of year the teams that want them have? Obviously if an average or mediocre team wants Reyes or Beltran (for whatever reason), I don’t expect them to give a whole lot to the Mets. If there are teams that do want him that are in playoff contention, the Mets are going to ask for a lot, and you can’t blame them there.

          • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

            sorry I meant the return depends on what kind of year reyes and beltran actually have..

          • MB923 4 years ago

            Blaa, alright, could of been any of those 3.

          • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

            Personally, I would have a fire sale. If they can trade 4-5 starters for 2-3 prospects each, make sure they get prospects that are near ready, they could turn this around quick.

          • East Coast Bias 4 years ago

            I think trading Reyes is a bad move. If he has a good year, in which case more teams would be willing to give up prospects for him, the Mets should sign him longterm. Reyes and Wright to anchor that offense for the long term is not a bad idea.

            Plus, look at the weak SS market. Reyes could be a top 3 ss in the league if he’s healthy, which it looks like he is.

          • MB923 4 years ago

            If he has a good year, they are going to get a lot for him. If somehow the Mets are in contention then I see no point whatsoever in trading for him but if they are a sub .500 team and way behind the Phillies and Braves, it would be good for a poor farm team to trade for high prospects. Now I know they wouldn’t trade him to teh Phillies or Braves, but they could trade him to another contending team in need of an OFer or SS.

            If Reyes and/or Beltran get injured or play bad, then forget about it lol.

          • East Coast Bias 4 years ago

            Yep. But what I’m saying, and we disagree, is that regardless of the year they are having, they should sign him longterm and build around Reyes and Wright for the future. Farm is important, but people pay money to see the big league team… and the Mets can’t afford, literally, to lose fans in seats.

            Also, we may have forgotten by recent news, but this is still a big market team playing in the biggest market! They should be able to shell out money in free agency to buy compliment pieces and not put all their eggs in the farm basket.

            No way Beltran remains a Met though…

          • MB923 4 years ago

            I think it would be a huge mistake for the Mets to resign Reyes for long term, unless it’s at a relatively low cost. For one thing, Reyes is a very bad defensive SS, so it would be good, if they do sign him long term, to make him a 2B since of course there is no DH. I don’t know the Mets prospects much so I have no idea if they have another who is ready SS ready anytime soon.

          • The question is do you think with all of the money problems the mets will be able to give him a long term deal. lets face it with a good healthy year he might be looking at type of deal that beltre go maybe more. Can the mets give that kind of money out even if they have money coming off the books>?

          • Encarnacion's Parrot 4 years ago

            Given the fact that he turned a bottom 5 to a top 5 with out having a complete fire sale, I’d say, not bad at all.

            What makes it even more scary is he didn’t completely focus on the farm. He also brought in young(er) high-ceiling talent for the Jays, i.e. Morrow, Escobar etc. The farm could easily be top 3 if he focused on it 100%.

  4. I’m not an ‘Insider’, so I couldn’t see those rankings, but i was surprised to see the Phillies as high as they were in the 2 I could see. I guess they are really overvaluing the A-Ball players, because the Phillies are pretty thin in AA and AAA levels.

    • Muggi 4 years ago

      I wouldn’t say overvaluing. The Phillies have so many highly-regarded guys down there, the chances of SOME of them hitting the bigs is pretty high.

      I’m not saying they have sure things, far from it, but when scouts are calling them the most talented A-ball team ever assembled there’s got to be SOME credit given to the farm system.

    • nm344 4 years ago

      They have 4-5 top 100 guys, including a top 5 prospect. What’s so surprising?

    • RahZid 4 years ago

      Then maybe you should have clicked on the spreadsheet link…..

  5. $7562574 4 years ago

    b.a. is b.s.

  6. BA has always hated the A’s farm system so this is no surprised. They should be ranked more middle of the pack but BA is still fuming over how the A’s don’t scout like other teams in the traditional way. The A’s have out spent most clubs on international players in the last few years and have some upcoming players in A ball and AA ball.

  7. cubs223425 4 years ago

    Good to see that Jim Hendry did so well for the Cubs. What a failure.

    Well, I guess it’s nice to see us with a #2/3 starter, though!!! That’s worth half of the top of the farm, right?

    • notsureifsrs 4 years ago

      yeah, that wasn’t a very good trade. here’s hoping for the cubs’ sake that garza takes his game to new levels in chicago

    • petrie000 4 years ago

      with the exception of Archer, the Cubs dealt mostly guys who were blocked (Chirinos, Lee and Guyer). In Return they got a good, young, proven starter… a commodity that’s worth it’s weight in gold in modern baseball.

      the NL Central is a division without a clear cut favorite, and Garza’s guaranteed to be a Cub for what, 3 more years at least? So Hendry’s trading players that COULD be good down the road for one that is good now and a chance to win the division… Would any Cubs fan rather go back to the MacPhail days of an over-hyped farm system and settling for 3rd every year?

      So the Cubs farm system dropped from ‘above average’ to merely ‘average’. Big tragedy.

      • notsureifsrs 4 years ago

        opportunity cost

      • cubs223425 4 years ago

        Guyer is blocked, yes.

        Chirinos is sort of blocked, but he has played C, 1B, 2B, SS, and 3B at the MiLB level, so he is extremely versatile. He could move to 1B and fill the lacking hole there in the farm, or maybe 3B if Vitters never gets it together. So he’s blocked at his primary position, but not entirely.

        Now, Lee is a whole different story. The guy could ACTUALLY give the Cubs a leadoff option with speed and base stealing abilities. His defense is stellar from what has been reported, and it was widely-known that the Cubs were likely yo move Castro to 2B to accomodate Lee’s glove. It would have given them a GREAT 1-2 combo in the lineup and an awesome defensive MI, something you never got with Fontenot and Theriot.

        Now, Garza’s guaranteed to be a Cubs for 3 years. Those are 3 years of salaries that will likely balloon greatly in that span. Those 3 guys you mentioned, plus Archer–a guy who probably has a ceiling at or above Garza’s level–all get SIX years with their team. So 3 years of Garza is 24 years of those 4 prospects combined. The trade took away young, cost-controlled prospects (2 at prime postions, C and SS), and added 3 years of a 27-year old SP who has seen his overall body of work take a turn for the worse of late (3.2 2009 WAR to 1.8 2010 WAR).

        The farm didn’t go like you say, either. It lost a leadoff hitter with GG-caliber defense, a mashing C that is improving defensively, a capable OF, and a #2 starter. That farm is now a few decent arms, the prayer that is Josh Vitters, Brett Jackson, and the rest.

        Seriously, there’s not much in the farm that excites me now, and Garza doesn’t excite me, either. If it was ONE of Archer/Lee, one of Guyer/Chirinos, another low-end prospect, and Fuld, OK. But the team gave up 4 of its top-10 prospects.

        They gave up more than MIL gave up for Greinke.

        • notsureifsrs 4 years ago

          yeah, but greinke’s peak WAR is only 9.4. garza has accumulated 9.9

          …in his entire 725 inning career

    • GaryLe 4 years ago

      You have to remember that the Cubs have Garza for 3 seasons at arbitration prices. There’s a lot of surplus value there.

  8. Ferrariman 4 years ago

    about 3 of the cardinals top 5 prospects came from the 2010 draft or international market. That says 2 things: 1, they had an awesome draft and 2, wtf were they doing all those other years!? Anyways, i think they will be in the 10-15 range next year, maybe closer to the 10.

    • Encarnacion's Parrot 4 years ago

      It could also say that their farm was positively brutal before the 2010 draft. Things are looking brighter for your Cards though.

  9. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    rays are #2 overall, will contend in 2011, and have the entire 1st round of this year’s loaded draft class to themselves

    small markets can’t compete! =(

    • Pawsdeep 4 years ago

      Hit that one right on the head—after this years draft class the rays farm could be the richest group of talent baseball has ever seen. Add in the fact they will compete as that organization should e a model on how to spend low and win.

      The question I have is whether or not Tampa will spring for the big signing bonuses needed to get that entire first round of elite talent or will they draft modestly. Should be really fun to see how it unfolds.

    • Lunchbox45 4 years ago

      yetttt the fanbase still won’t show up to cheer on the best run team in all of baseball.

      • InLeylandWeTrust 4 years ago

        That is such a shame. It really is.

        • MB923 4 years ago

          You ain’t kidding, and in Chicago you had the (no offense to Cubs fans), miserable Cubs finish amongst the top attendances in the NL.

      • MB923 4 years ago

        But it’s a 45 minute commute so they say!

        Hey newsflash Rays fans, it takes a good half hour to a over an hour to get to Yankee Stadium by car, that is if you don’t live in the Bronx. And even with many subway delays, it still takes a good half hour by subway.

        On the plus side, at least their tv ratings went way higher (and the Red Sox went way lower, although I don’t see that happening in 2011 of course unless half the team is on the DL again)

    • JayTeam 4 years ago

      Rays (ranked #2) 3 1st round picks, 10 of top 60 plus 2 2nd round picks
      Jays (ranked #4) 5 of top 57 picks plus 2 2nd round picks
      Yankees (ranked #5)
      Red Sox (ranked #17) 4 of top 40 picks
      Orioles (ranked #21) #4 overall pick
      With 3 of the top 5 rated systems already, the AL East as a whole will strengthen itself further. Rays draft haul will be huge, but Jays and Sox should also have the top few influxes of talent. Yanks don’t pick till 51, but they’ll spend by going overslot and buying elite Latin American talent. The Orioles look to be the one team left behind, but they should at least get one super talent with their #4 overall.
      Seems like this division should dominate these rankings for a few more years.

  10. Jason Klinger 4 years ago

    I’d really like to see a separate list of farm teams ranked by Major League-ready prospects — guys in AA or AAA who are projected to be on rosters within, say, 18 months. That would remove the whole ‘teens full of potential’ debate.

    • Though it does bring up a problem of its own. There’s a difference between being roster-ready and being on a roster. The former would probably be a fairer way to look at things, because players in systems of top teams are less likely to break through than players in bad teams’ systems.

      Looking at my Phillies as an example, Matt Rizzotti will almost certainly be roster-ready in less than 18 months, if he isn’t already. However, that does him no good, since he’s a 1B, can’t play defense well enough to go anywhere else, and has a Ryan Howard-shaped brick wall in front of him. He could make the team as a pinch hitter, but we need our bench guys to play multiple positions (or catcher), and he has trouble playing the field at the easiest one. If he came up through the Pirates’ system, he’d be their 1B soon, if not already, because Lyle Overbay isn’t likely to hit well enough to keep him off the field.

  11. goner 4 years ago

    The Pirates’ composite ranking of 19 seems about right to me, as they’ve graduated 4 starting position players in the last 1.5 years. while there is pitching help on the horizon in Owens and Morris, most of the Pirates’ high-ceiling talent (Taillon, Allie, Heredia) haven’t even made their minor-league debuts yet.

    Barring injury to one of them (and/or flubbing the #1 overall draft pick this year), I’d expect the Pirates to rank higher next year.

    • MB923 4 years ago

      I guess the same reason that applies as the Marlins being one of the worst, and on some sites, the worst.

  12. uncolaman 4 years ago

    Congrats to evilempireny for cracking top 10. Maybe now there will be some common sense in ny with throwing money around. Now with George not throwng money around maybe some of Casnman draft picks will become finds for years.

    • Slopeboy 4 years ago

      Have you not heard of the names Randy Levine and Hank Steinbrenner?

      • uncolaman 4 years ago

        Yea and they haven’t thrown money around like before

        • Slopeboy 4 years ago

          They were the ones that gave the increase to A-Rod after he opted out of the original contract. They were the ones that over ruled Cashman in the Jeter negotiations, which resulted in a ridiculous contract. They were the ones that basically negotiated the recent Soriano contract with the THREE opt out provisions. The don’t have the track record like George because his life span, but these two have already spent plenty in a very short time. Don’t expect it to abate anytime soon.

  13. Guest 4 years ago

    Hey look at that; a lot of winny red sox fan comments. Deal with it, your farm is weak and will be for the next year or two. At least there is a reason; your team traded away the good prospects for Gonzalez. Good grief, just can’t win with you guys..I just had a conversation with a giants fan (whom is staying in NYC this week) and he can’t figure you all out either. The obession with numbers is actually getting a bit scary. The Yankees’s have had some excellent international scouting and there are some high ceiling players about to come up. No matter how you face it, the Yanks always beat you in one way or another.

    • MB923 4 years ago

      You can’t prove it will be weak for the next year or two. Prospects and farm rankings jump up and down all the time.

  14. they don’t run the team. Cashman and Hal do.

  15. raygunpunx 4 years ago

    Where should they be ranked?

  16. Lunchbox45 4 years ago

    they have some serious arms in the minors. probably the best arms in the minors besides the braves farm

  17. Fangaffes 4 years ago

    B-b-but they have the top-rated bad catcher in baseball!

  18. MB923 4 years ago

    Why because you dislike them?

  19. Craig_Bueno 4 years ago

    The Yankees deserve a top 10 ranking but No. 4 (BP) and No. 5 (BA) does seem a little high. They’re still pretty shallow on elite position players. Their system actually resembles that of the Rangers (ranked anywhere from 10-14). Both have tons of high upside arms. Both are stocked at primarily one position (Yankees at catcher and Rangers at SS).

    So actually, I don’t think Law’s ranking is crazy. I’d probably bump them up to 7 or 8, though.

  20. YanksFanSince78 4 years ago

    Always looking for a fight.

  21. MB923 4 years ago

    He’s a bad catcher, therefore that makes him a bad player?

    Mike Piazza would like a word.

  22. cubs223425 4 years ago

    Good hitting doesn’t make you a good CATCHER.

  23. Ferrariman 4 years ago

    because Trout has a higher ceiling. Bad example.

  24. MB923 4 years ago

    That relates to nothing to what I said. To re-word what I did say, a catcher who is not a good catcher doesn’t mean he’s bad overall. If he was bad he wouldn’t be rated high. I thank you for saying something totally different.

  25. Craig_Bueno 4 years ago

    It’s OK if Montero can’t catch. If I were a Yankee fan I’d rather have the next Edgar Martinez anyways.

  26. cubs223425 4 years ago

    Maybe, but the guy didn’t call Montero a bad player overall. He called him a bad catcher.

  27. MB923 4 years ago

    I’d rather them have Swisher or Granderson leave (Swisher has a club option after this offseason and Granderson next offseason) and put Montero in RF and Gardner in CF.

    Hey there’s a good possiblity Jeter will go to the OF in a few years, who would have thought that a Yankee OF could be Jeter/Gardner/Montero haha.

    DH is no good for a team who will have 2 players who have contracts through the ages of 40 and 43

    I think it’s best they call Sanchez or Romine to be their future C. Now of course I know their hitting doesn’t match Montero’s, but they probably could handle the position A LOT better than Montero.

  28. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    particularly when you have gary sanchez a few years back who can catch in addition to hitting — and austin romine to handle things in the meantime

  29. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    i’d put the rays’ arms and maybe the royals’ too in front of nyy but yes

  30. Pawsdeep 4 years ago

    Don’t forget about Detroit too—not too sure about why they are ranked so low but Turner, Oliver, and about 5 more pitchers are legitimate talent in that system

  31. MB923 4 years ago

    Ahh right about Beltran. My fault. Yes Reyes could aslo be resigned. But if he has a good year and the Mets are Not in contention, I think Sandy should trade him if teams are looking for him, preferably of course playoff contending teams since you’re bound to get someone good for him. Of course trading Beltran is a good decision too but unfortunately the Mets will most likely have to eat some, if not, most of his contract.

    They coudl also eat a lot of Reyes’ contract. Crazy how the Mets could possibly be paying close to $30 million, maybe over that, to 4 players who aren’t on the team. Already paying $18 million as is.

  32. MB923 4 years ago

    Exactly (hey we agree!) , although I’d be interested to see how Montero would do in the OF. It’s worth a shot to try him there. If he fields like Manny or worse, he has DH in the future (or 1B)

  33. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    out of the AL, but also out of a serious pitcher’s park into a serious hitter’s park – and he’s a serious flyball pitcher

    nothing about him suggests #1

  34. cubs223425 4 years ago

    Yeah, no.

    His FIP, HR/9, GB%, and FB/HR% have all decreased for 3 straight seasons. I mean, maybe if he fixes all of that, but his only area of improvement is his BB/9 and his BABIP (though it’s REALLY bad if all of those stats worsened while lowering 2 key stats like BB/9 and BABIP).

  35. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    FIP at tropicana field: 3.89

    FIP away from it: 4.64

    womp womp wommmmp

  36. MB923 4 years ago

    Could go even up more, but on the plus side, this will only apply to this year (of course we don’t know what is going to happen next offseason and ahead, just saying for now this is only for this year).

  37. MB923 4 years ago

    Not always, but a majority of the time.

  38. his away stats maybe not be better, but playing the yankees, red sox, and the blue jays is a little different than the pirates, cardinals, and brewers on the road.

    womp womp wommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmp

  39. MB923 4 years ago

    Orrrr, if I may put in

    ERA at Trop- 3.51
    Away- 4.27

    About the same difference, one of .75 one of .76, so I guess we can say in this case, you can use either one? lol

  40. Clearly this is because they’ll be traded to the Braves sometime this season. Is Derek Lowe this year’s Doyle Alexander/Edgar Renteria??

    -C

  41. Looks like you’re the only one. Not even the Yankees are interested in seeing how Montero will do in the OF…that should tell you something about his defensive prowess.

    -C

  42. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    that’s one of those things that sounds smart, but should have been fact-checked

    2008 (OVERALL: 3.70 ERA – 2.17 K/BB)

    ERA v. BOS – 4.50 (1.25 K/BB)
    ERA v. NYY – 3.71 (1.60 K/BB)
    ERA v. TOR – 0.47 (3.13 K/BB)

    2009 (OVERALL: 3.95 ERA – 2.39 K/BB)

    ERA v. BOS – 2.74 (3.45 K/BB)
    ERA v. NYY – 2.08 (2.88 K/BB)
    ERA v. TOR – 1.27 (2.64 K/BB)

    he got wrecked in 2010 (by everyone – 1.8 WAR lol), but your theory that his career numbers have been held down by those three teams appears to be bogus

    the theory that he has benefited significantly from pitching in a pitcher’s ballpark is definitely not

    even if the factors somehow evened out (they aren’t likely to), you are looking at 4.2 FIP guy – 3 WAR upside. that’s a good #3 starter

  43. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    not sure

    -notsure

  44. JayTeam 4 years ago

    I haven’t seen any knowledgeable prospect list rate Moose over Trout this year. The guys who make these lists (Sickels, KLaw etc) talk to scouts, player development people, even GM’s. You as a fan may have different criteria, but don’t make it sound like they’ve lost their senses, and the only sane ones are you and a couple of other posters on this board.

  45. MB923 4 years ago

    Interesting how they did the same thing with Derek Jeter a couple of years ago in the OF and they had no interested in moving him away from SS. In case you haven’t heard, Cashman and teh Yankees have stated that if necessary (which is almost is now except they already have OFers), they might consider it in his final year(s)

  46. MB923 4 years ago

    Please help me if my eyes are wrong, but did you, for once, actually use ERA? I thought it was useless

  47. at the end of the day those three teams are still better than the ones he will be facing numbers aside. his numbers will be better this year because he is going to weaker division and gets to face the pitcher spot. thats all i was getting at, i dont have time to go look up those stats, to show whos is bigger on a website comment section . Garza is quality pitcher who is on most teams a number #2. anyone can look up numbers in their favor

  48. Lunchbox45 4 years ago

    He’s always destroyed the Jays, ALWAYS

  49. MB923 4 years ago

    Glad I’m not the only one who doesn’t agree with it. Neither does any analyst. And I find it interested how people ask you where they should be ranked, and why should they not be in the top 10, and you have yet to give an answer. Yet here you respond to mine when I wasn’t even the first one to reply to you, and I simply asked if it was because you dislike them, and since you haven’t answered No to that, I will take it as a Yes.

  50. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    b-r is the only one with the team splits, they don’t offer FIP and i’m too lazy to compute it from their numbers. but that’s why i included K/BB in addition to ERA; because it was easy

  51. Lunchbox45 4 years ago

    Why do you rely so heavily on the numbers to begin with? Its the minors, there’s alot more to it than the numbers.

  52. MB923 4 years ago

    While it’s not very useful except for looking at stats, Yahoo Sports does it too I think.

  53. MB923 4 years ago

    Not computing it doesn’t make you lazy lol. That’s about a 20 minute task

  54. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    also also

    what we’re looking for here is a evidence that the outcomes are significantly different against those three teams than in general. so the precision of the stat here is less important than making sure it measures the same thing against one variable: the opponent

  55. MB923 4 years ago

    Wasn’t aware I was acting like a “tough guy”, seems to me it was you just being ignorant, until you provide some useful information. I’m sure you feel your beloved Red Sox should be higher than them so if you want I can counter argue with that and provide some negative information about them too

    Seems for you’re going soley on last years stats, so I guess time for me to do your Sox prospects last year stats

    1. Ryan Kalish- Good overall for sure.
    2- Jose Iglesias- .672 OPS last year
    3- Anthony Ranaudo- ERA of 7.32
    4- Drake Britton- Like Brackman, injury prone and recent TJ surgery but good numbers overall last year
    5- Stolmy Pimentel, 9.82 ERA
    6- Felix Doubrant, decent amount of K’s but a lot of BB’s and tendancy to give up long balls
    7- Lars Anderson- Poor power in 3 of the last 4 years, has a slugging% of .428 or worse in 3 of the last 4 years and in the 1 year he didnt he played only 17 games.
    8- Yamaico Navarro, looks to be okay but they say his defense is poor
    9- Oscar TEjada, has had a slugging percentage of over .400 only 1 time
    10- Kolbrin Vitek, only 2 years in A ball, decent numbers.

    Again, we are providing small sample sizes of games, and more importantly their age. I’m only doing it because you just did too.

    Also some of the players you listed are not even in their top 10. Teh players I listed are in the Red Sox top 10. We just have to wait and see how they do in the next few years. And to be honest, I do hope most of them on Both teams do well

  56. Noreaster44 4 years ago

    blackcourt, you are just a hater. That’s ok, I feel the same way about the Sox. But, just look at Montero, 20 years old in AAA getting better as the year went on. Pretty amazing stuff. Sanchez first year in pro ball. Dellin Betances and Manny Banuelos coming back from DL (btw, Banuelos is much bigger than Pedro). Brackman, first year he was healthy coming back from Tommy John. Austin Romine, wore down during the season, happens to catchers as they get use to catching a lot of games, but something to watch. Hector Noesi, moved through the system fast with good numbers.

    Your beef seems to be with moving guys through the system at an advanced pace. These guys are moving so fast because their ‘stuff’ is playing well at higher levels. The hardest jump is from high A to AA and AAA to the majors. Most of these guys handled each jump well. Time will tell if they will make the majors, but moving through the system fast is a good thing, not the all evil thing you make it out to be. You are just basing your entire argument on ‘people didn’t get use to them’ because they were moving so fast. It’s something to pay attention to, but using this as your main concern about the Yankee system is pretty weak.

  57. nothing but a Yankee hater

  58. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    in fairness, i’ll try my hand with the yanks list

    montero – very valuable bat, even at 1B/DH. elite talent if he finds a way to catch

    sanchez – in less than 200 PA at age 18, he raked. the “struggling” you are referring to covers 60 ABs. he’s got catcher skills and a potentially very good bat

    romine – with two full good seasons of A ball under his belt and very good defensive skills at catcher, he got a full season’s worth of PA in AA last year and did well (.328 wOBA) no plus bat here, but seems to be more than adequate for a catcher with his skills

    i love that you said romine had “declined at every level”, as if that’s unusual

    ok i’m already tired of doing this. things to exclude in all future “scouting reviews”: small samples, criticisms of movement between leagues, A-ball numbers in general. players with consensus upside/tools should have their records checked for unusually poor performance, not unusually great performance

  59. MB923 4 years ago

    This I do agree with you on.

  60. Guest 4 years ago

    Yeah ok buddy. Double standard on this one. No?

    So when Kelly was with the team 18 or 19 year old was acceptable correct, but now, no?

  61. MB923 4 years ago

    I was also looking at the stats at the away teams ballparks, but kind of too small sample sizes, some of those he even only made 1 start in the whole year. So no use putting those lol

  62. MB923 4 years ago

    Lot better than his record says, seems as if the Rays give him no run support at all.

  63. Lunchbox45 4 years ago

    No, but you’re the one being so critical of professional scouts opinions when all you’re basing it on is the fact the the numbers are good but aren’t a big enough sample size.

  64. MB923 4 years ago

    And Mike Moustakas is the top rated 3B in prospects and they said his defense is a major weakness. I guess he’s a b-b-bad top-rated 3B then, right Fangaffes?

  65. Moving a shortstop, even a below-average fielding shortstop, to the outfield is miles different than moving a horrible-fielding catcher with well-below-average speed into the expanse that is any outfield position is a bad move.

    His build is more solid than athletic. It’s going to be hard for him to cover the field, even if his instincts are good and he takes decent routes. Finally, the big knock on him at catcher is not his arm but his receiving, i.e. the fielding portion of his duties.

    These are a number of red flags that lead most to believe that he’d be the next Adam Dunn of the OF. Sure, you can do it. If there’s a place it could be done, it’d likely be on a high-scoring team with a bandbox…check in that respect. But just because you can do something doesn’t make it a good idea.

    -C

  66. MaineSox 4 years ago

    That may be true but I would certainly give him a try in the outfield before moving him to full time DH. There’s always a chance that he could be a Manny type outfielder (poor range but decent instincts and a good arm) and if he hits enough it could work out pretty well.

  67. MB923 4 years ago

    Good point but it doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be worth a shot if the guy can’t catch. Especially with A-Rod who will be playing at least 7 more years and will eventually have that DH spot to himself sooner or later. Unless Montero is traded, if he can’t catch, they are going to have to put him in the OF with 1B locked up for the next 6 years.

  68. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    jose iglesias – plus-plus defense, has hit for average in his only season (236 PA) at AA. no sign of discipline, but then again no sure sign of contact ability either. it’s a very small sample

    anthony ranaudo – why the hell are you citing stats from his last college year when he was injured? he pitched in the cape cod league this summer, after his recovery and after being drafted. 0 earned runs 10 hits 31 strikeouts in 29 2/3 innings

    stolmy pimentel – 9.82 ERA? what is that? 4.06 last year; 3.82 the year before

    felix doubront – success at every level

    kolbrin vitek – definitely does not have 2 years in a-ball; he was drafted last year. in 300 PA in A ball, he has raked

    i agree with the spirit of what you were doing there, but too many inaccuracies

  69. MB923 4 years ago

    I realized what I was saying was a small sample but I did it to prove to blackcourt, that simply, it’s a small sample, read what I said towards the end.

    Ranaudo- College stats shown, I did not realize that when I posted, sorry

    Pimental- Shows it on the web page, unless those were his stats for his first year. Not sure where it gave me those numbers

    Doubront- Directly from the website it says he has the tendancy to give up the long ball, and I see he walks many batters

    Vitek- My mistake, it was 2 teams ( Lowell and Greenville) so I read that wrong

    AGain, my point was just saying what blackcourt did was kind of a small sample, yet here you’re acting as if I started this lol

  70. MB923 4 years ago

    “The Yankees create a false sense of accomplishment for their minor league players”

    You realize it is other scouts and the media and analysts who say this, don’t you?

  71. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    i’m not really. i just checked your facts first, because i’m more familiar with those players and the numbers jumped out at me. i did some of the yankees list too, but got bored =

  72. MaineSox 4 years ago

    Those numbers for Pimentel are from his 3.2 innings this spring.

  73. cubs223425 4 years ago

    If his defense is as bad as Piazza’s?

    Yes, he’s a bad THIRD BASEMAN.

    Piazza was an oustanding offensive catcher, and an outstanding hitter in general, but he was a bad catcher in terms of player that position defensively.

    Quit taking a part and using it to make a sum.

  74. MB923 4 years ago

    As were mine (although some I got wrong) but still 17 starts or so is half a seasons worth. 1 season overall doesn’t predict a players future. As Lunchbox pointed out, it’s obviously more than numbers, it’s potential.

  75. MB923 4 years ago

    Phillies, Mets and Braves have always traded with one another, never went after the other teams big free agent

    —-

    Yeah what was the last trade done between them? Anything prior to 2007 or so when the Phillies Mets and Braves ever since have been battling for the division and WC (with Philly on top each of those years)?

  76. MB923 4 years ago

    “Quit taking a part and using it to make a sum. ”

    Yet here you are, doing the same thing.

  77. JayTeam 4 years ago

    What makes you say that?

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