Twins Notes: Liriano, Yankees, Cuddyer

Some notes from the Twin Cities…

  • The Twins turned down a Yankee offer of Ivan Nova and Ramiro Pena for Francisco Liriano earlier this winter, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com.  The Twins, however, are interested in left-handed pitching prospect Manuel Banuelos and want him included in any package from New York.  Rosenthal thinks the two teams will revisit negotiations before Opening Day, but notes the two sides haven't talked "in at least a month."  Minnesota assistant GM Rob Antony said last week that the Liriano trade speculation was nothing but rumors. 
  • The Twins didn't have "serious" negotiations about an extension with Liriano this winter.  Rosenthal speculates that Minnesota may have concerns about Liriano's durability, since "otherwise, an extension makes perfect sense."  Liriano can be a free agent after 2012 and MLBTR's Tim Dierkes saw the southpaw as an extension candidate last fall.
  • Michael Cuddyer is slightly upset, but understanding, about the Twins not discussing a contract extension with him over the winter, writes Kelsie Smith of the Pioneer Press.  Cuddyer can be a free agent after the season and Smith argues that the Twins would miss Cuddyer's clubhouse leadership if he were to depart.


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120 Comments on "Twins Notes: Liriano, Yankees, Cuddyer"


MB923
4 years 5 months ago

“The Twins turned down a Yankee offer of Ivan Nova and Ramiro Pena for Francisco Liriano earlier this winter, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports”

lulz. Nice try Cashman.

DunkinDonuts
4 years 5 months ago

What? Isn’t that the going rate for “nobody of value?”

Karsch
4 years 5 months ago

If you want Liriano im assuming the Yankees would have to start the package with Jesus Montero.

MB923
4 years 5 months ago

What use would the Twins have for Montero?

twins33
4 years 5 months ago

backup 1B and a DH, could catch on Mauer’s days off (though I hear he won’t stick as a C). 2011 is full, except the backup catcher spot, but 2012 Thome and Kubel will be FA’s.

If his bat’s as good as they say, team’s will find a spot for him. We’d for sure have at least one spot for him in 2012.

4 years 5 months ago

Huge trade bate for one, for another, Mauer will only be catching for so long. But that said, it doesnt seem a fit right now. Twins should forget about the yanks depleted farm system and look elsewhere if they are serious.

BobMexico
4 years 5 months ago

Baseball America ranks the Yankees farm system 5th overall. If you consider that “depleted”, then what do you call the Twins 13th ranked system.

Guest
4 years 5 months ago

The Red Sox sabermetric mafia was apparently unavailable for invalid reasoning and someone needed to step in..

4 years 5 months ago

^^^^not…as “if”. Wow. I wish I knew what you knew about NY’s farm system…by depleted you must mean “stacked”.

Guest
4 years 5 months ago

You do realize that the Yankees have one of the best farm systems in baseball currently? They have nearly two times as many quality prospects as the next team (Royals excluded) and I read somewhere the other day that they have the richest crop of arms in all of baseball. The Yankee’s could pull off a Liriano trade and it would barely make a dent. If it does happen, expect to see something like Joba, Nunez, Warren, Mitchell…

4 years 5 months ago

richest crop of arms in all of baseball*

*Royals excluded

TrueYankeeFanNYC
4 years 5 months ago

Guess you’ve never heard of Joe Mauer. Karsch is clueless but worst of all, hes a clown.

Karsch
4 years 5 months ago

Ok? Montero doesn’t figure to stick at catcher, and with Thome’s and Kubel’s contracts up at the end of the season, he has first base and dh available in 2012. But whatever im as clueless as a delusional Yankee fan.

4 years 5 months ago

hehe

YankeePhan1234
4 years 5 months ago

LOL @ that offer from Cashman

twins33
4 years 5 months ago

True or not, that is one of the crappiest offers I have ever seen in my life.

Ferrariman
4 years 5 months ago

what an overpay,

Chuck345
4 years 5 months ago

The Yankees would destroy their future if they give up Ramiro Pena.

Bryz
4 years 5 months ago

Dear Michael Cuddyer,

Show some semblance of consistency at the plate and we’ll consider giving you an extension.

– Twins Front Office

4 years 5 months ago

haha. really though what was the offer.

4 years 5 months ago

The Pena offer didn’t come from Cashman. Charlie Sheen was making crank calls again.

DunkinDonuts
4 years 5 months ago

Oh man, “crank” calls works on two levels for that gentleman, if you believe the TMZ reports…

Crackis4lovers
4 years 5 months ago

I guess the between the lines of the earlier quote was “there’s nobody available for our dregs.”

ultimate913
4 years 5 months ago

Damn, Cashman. As a Yankee fan, if you really offered that, I like you more now.

Holmes2011
4 years 5 months ago

If Liriano is such a hotshot then why are the Twins dragging their feet with an extension? Is this Carl Polhad all over again? You want a hot shot prospect for someone who might not be able to outlast Charlie Sheen on the mound? If we have any World Series tickets left at the stadium, we’ll send them your way.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 5 months ago

You must be a Giants Fan!

TwinsVet
4 years 5 months ago

Franky did have the 2nd best XFIP in the world last year, behind only Doc.

Holmes2011
4 years 5 months ago

Okay if Liriano is such a steal why haven’t you tied him up long term? Carl Polhad strikes again? And you want a hot prospect for someone who might not be able to outduel Chalrie Sheen in a playoff game? And pitch in the pressure of New York that scared off Cliff Lee? Curiouser and curioser.

Holmes2011
4 years 5 months ago

Didn’t mean to repeat my post. Newbie.

MB923
4 years 5 months ago

Happens all the time to people, it’s nothing new lol

4 years 5 months ago

Billy Smith should have countered that offer with Nick Blackburn and Matt Tolbert for Sabathia.

What a joke of an offer by Cashman.

andrewyf
4 years 5 months ago

Bill Smith is a joke of a GM when it comes to the trade market, so I actually think it’s quite fitting.

4 years 5 months ago

1 bad trade under difficult circumstances (Santana) makes him terrible at trades?

twins33
4 years 5 months ago

I’d add Garza to that list. I’m not even a big Garza fan, but he was pretty solid for the Rays. Plus, just look at what the Rays got for trading Garza and Bartlett. They got a boatload. Quantity does not mean quality, but I’m guessing some of those guys have a chance (emphasis on guess, I haven’t looked them up to be honest. I just know it was a lot of guys).

I’m, again, guessing that their return for those two guys was better than ours for Santana. We turned Santana into Guerra, Hardy and Rauch plus money to re-sign Mauer. Knowing then what I know now, I would definitely take Santana for the 2008 season and get the two draft picks out of him. And I’m saying that as a big Hardy fan, but Hardy does not equal Santana in worth. Plus, I hated that trade immediately. It’s not even hindsight for me. I hated it from the beginning. It only got worse as time went on.

I don’t even really hold the Santana trade against Smith all that much. He is at fault for some of it, but not all of it. Santana had all of the power. He said where he wanted to go and he said he wanted a ton of cash from that team. That limits the options greatly.

Smith is better at mid-season trades. O-Cab (I’m not a big fan of, but he certainly helped), Pavano, Fuentes, Rauch…I’m probably missing someone. The one I didn’t like and still don’t is Ramos for Capps. Not because I think Ramos is a god, but I just don’t think highly of Capps. I believe Capps is an average reliever and I don’t think an average reliever is worth a top prospect.

MSUcorner
4 years 5 months ago

Yeah Liriano an Nathan for AJ was the icing on Bill Smith’s poor trade skills.

twins33
4 years 5 months ago

That was Terry Ryan, the GM before Smith.

4 years 5 months ago

DOH! Nice call.

Guest
4 years 5 months ago

No way Cashman offered that and expected any type of dialog.. Someone is a liar!

Yankee_Baal
4 years 5 months ago

That Ivan Nova + Ramiro Pena offer sounds too much like a joke. Nova has good upside, but Pena is a very very poor man’s Nick Punto and I don’t see him as added value for anyone in the league (well, maybe the Tigers and their awful defensive infield). Nova + D.J. Mitchell + Garrison or Laird and you are starting to get at something.

PS: Brandon Inge, forgive me for not taking your name out when I said “Tigers and their awful defensive infield”, you know I didn’t mean you.

twins33
4 years 5 months ago

“Pena is a very very poor man’s Nick Punto”

Cashman must have thought he was calling Gardy.

4 years 5 months ago

I don’t trade Banuelos for Liriano. He’s damaged goods and Manny Banny may be a top pitcher when he comes up. I say offer mid level prospects and Nova and if they don’t bite then say “OK, keep him and you get nothing when he walks”, Liriano’s trade value really doesn’t strike me as high right now. Do they get a draft pick if he signs elsewhere?

4 years 5 months ago

You are dead on correct.

nm344
4 years 5 months ago

Yankees are the only team that is allowed to trade with the Twins?

TwinsVet
4 years 5 months ago

The Yankees are fixated on Liriano because they still think we owe them a favor after raping them on Knoblauch.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 5 months ago

That’s sarcasm right? Please tell me it is.

0bsessions
4 years 5 months ago

The Type A comp picks would be more valuable than “mid level prospects and Nova.”

Liriano may not be worth Banuelos. That said, he’s also not signed for an excessive amount of money for a FOR pitcher and there’s no reason for the Twins to trade him unless they get more than he’s worth.

4 years 5 months ago

Only a fool would trade Banuelos even up for Liriano. Liriano is often injured and has no upside. Keep Banuelos.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 5 months ago

Only a fool wouldn’t trade unproven overhyped prospects for a young stud lefty! Bottom line is the Yanks chances of winning the Wild Card increase immensely with another top SP! Otherwise they could easily be on the outside looking in come October!

Guest
4 years 5 months ago

er..”Yanks chances of winning the Wild Card increase immensely” ? So I’m taking it that you’re in the Red Sox already won the division camp?

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 5 months ago

Gotta love how i snuck that in there!

MB923
4 years 5 months ago

While it did work out in the end (for both teams), the Red Sox traded an unproven Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez for when of the games best young pitchers in Josh Beckett and a great veteran 3B in Mike Lowell.

Am I comparing Banuelos to Hanley/Sanchez and Beckett/Lowell to Liriano? No. But what you said makes no sense. Since when can a player who is not proven (Hanley) not be traded for a good/great player (Beckett and Lowell, at the time)?

Oh, DUH. How can I forget this past offseason, the Red Sox traded an unproven and possibly an overhyped Casey Kelley and a couple of other mid prospects for one of the best 1B in baseball.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 5 months ago

You must have failed reading comprehension in H.S.! I said, and i quote “Only a fool WOULD’NT trade unproven, overhyped prospects for a young stud lefty!” Even Charlie Sheen could understand something this simple!

MB923
4 years 5 months ago

My mistake, human error. However if my reading comprehension is correct on your screen name, it says RedSoxDynasty. Sorry to say, but the Red Sox have not had a dynasty since the 1910’s. Unless they start going on one very soon. But you’ve had this screen name what about 2-3 years after they won the 2007 WS which still doesn’t put them in a dynasty.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 5 months ago

Is it “human error” to reply with a dig when youre called out on a lengthy rant in which you were totally wrong? I think its a combination of a lack of intelligence and insecurity! FYI, my screen name is in reference to the early 1900’s dynasty!

TwinsVet
4 years 5 months ago

Liriano has no upside? He had the 2nd best XFIP in the game last year. He’s a sabermetrics wet dream.

He’s often injured? The dude had TJ at a young age, and took 2 years to come back to form from it. Not unlike most pitchers these days.

MB923
4 years 5 months ago

He’s also never thrown 200 innings. He had the 2nd worst BABIP behind the 2nd best defensive team in the AL. He does have a high K/BB ratio and GB ratio though.

twins33
4 years 5 months ago

I never get the complaint about 200 innings. I understand it’s an important number and I agree, but 191 isn’t too far from 200 innings. I would take 191 innings from any pitcher, any year. Plus, he pitched almost 40 innings in winter ball before the 2010 season, so he really did have +200 innings on his arm.

It was that kind of argument that took Blyleven so long to get into the Hall. “Oh, but he doesn’t have 300 wins.” No, he doesn’t, but he has 287 wins which could have easily been +300 if the crappy teams he was on didn’t F him out of run support in so many games.

And don’t misunderstand my point. I’m not saying Liriano is a Hall of Famer. That would be massively stupid, but to seriously worry over a guy being 9 official innings short of 200 is very odd to me.

It seems to me that there is evidence upon evidence that it takes a starting pitcher +2 years to recover from TJ surgery. He was finally good to go in 2010 and he delivered. He was right on schedule of where he should have been. He has ace stuff. He’s not quite the full definition of an ace yet, but he easily has ace stuff.

If you’re like me, you want to see that he can do it again. I won’t fully trust him until he does another 2010 or better. I think I have that right, so do you and so does every one else. I just think it’s very odd to complain about 200 innings when he wasn’t that far off.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 5 months ago

Nova and Pena for Liriano? Wonder how quick the phone got hung up in Minny? What a joke!

rico7961
4 years 5 months ago

The Twins need Montero in any deal for Liriano. If they trade him for any less they are very stupid. A package of Montero, Nova,and Nunez. Or Montero and Betances, either one of those two packages and the Twins MIGHT consider trading Liriano.

TwinsVet
4 years 5 months ago

I’d take Hughes over Montero. Hughes is more of a known quality, while Montero could still turn out to be the next Wieters.

MB923
4 years 5 months ago

Except that doesn’t make sense at all for the Yankees to substitute arguably their 2nd best starting pitcher for another 2nd best starting pitcher. It would make sense for them to trade prospects for him

I think it would be Pointless for the Twins to trade Liriano to begin with though for now, as long as they are in playoff contention. Why trade your best pitcher?

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 5 months ago

Trading Hughes for Liriano would be redundant for the Yankees and would never happen!

4 years 5 months ago

You have to be kidding or delusional, maybe both.

rico7961
4 years 5 months ago

You have to remember the Twins have the leverage here. The Yanks need a pitcher of Liriano’s caliber and they know it. So the Twins should have a high asking price, either that or the Yanks can buy him in free agency for 2013.

4 years 5 months ago

The YANKEES absolutely do not need a pitcher of low quality like Liriano, nor do they need his overwhelming downside potential. Nova will have a better season than Liriano this year as the YANKEE number 4. The YANKEE 5 spot will be filled by whomever wins it in spring training or by whomever develops the quickest in the early spring season. If I recall, the YANKEES only need 2 starts from the 5 spot pitcher for the first month of the season, and they can be filled by any of several candidates.

rico7961
4 years 5 months ago

Then why is the Yankees FO making it known they want to try and acquire Liriano? They know they need a quality lefty to combat the heavy lh line-up of the hated Sox. On paper the Sox are better than the Yanks right now, because of the Yanks rotation. Hence the Yanks will try and improve their rotation.

4 years 5 months ago

Baseball is not played on paper. The YANKEE front office for almost always makes it known they are interested in certain players for several reasons, such as 1. test the waters, 2. drive up the cost if the competition is also interested, 3. are truly interested, 4. keep the other guys guessing.

rico7961
4 years 5 months ago

Brilliant. Tell me something I don’t know. The fact of the matter is, the Yankees really want Liriano bad and want to not give up anything for him. So they think by playing reverse psychology the Twins will give him up for nothing. I hope they trade him to the Red Sox and the Sox put the Yanks where they belong. I’m happy everyday the Yanks lose. The Yanks can put-up or shut-up when it comes to trading for Liriano.

4 years 5 months ago

Hughes is better and has more upside than Liriano. That would be a very stupid trade on the YANKEES part.

moustacheman
4 years 5 months ago

Okay, as a yankee fan you are making us all sound silly. Hughes does NOT have more upside than Liriano, there aren’t many pitchers in the MLB with more upside than Liriano. Liriano’s problem is his durability which hurts his trade value. Thats why the Twins won’t get a haul for him. He has never even pitched 200 innings. Joba + 2 mid level prospects gets the deal done.

4 years 5 months ago

I disagree. I think it is you who make YANKEE fans sound silly. Hughes is far better than Liriano now and has so much more upside than Liriano, it is not even funny. Liriano for the deal you propose, I would consider, but still might not want to make.

moustacheman
4 years 5 months ago

You realize there are zero peripherals that backup your claim. Hughes is a good pitcher and has a high ceiling but Liriano, when healthy, is downright filthy. His FIP was much lower than his ERA last year mostly due to a high BABIP. Please, do a little research on here before you make ludacris claims. Liriano’s year last year>>>>>>> Hughes year. And I’m a big Hughes fan. Obviously trading Hughes for Liriano is a bad move and as I said above he really shouldn’t warrant anyone of Hughes’ caliber BUT that is only due to his durability. It has NOTHING to do with his talent or ceiling because those are extraordinary.

4 years 5 months ago

As I have stated in a previous posts, sabermetrics are for fools who do not know baseball. I love comments like “when healthy”. Here’s another stupid comment you can use..when Joe Schmoe pitches a perfect game he is the best pitcher in baseball.

moustacheman
4 years 5 months ago

Oh… so you’re a “how many wins does a pitcher have” kinda guy… I am wasting my time!

4 years 5 months ago

Baseball is played to WIN. A pitchers job is to WIN, hold or save. Only utter fools think anything else is more important. Without WINS the pitcher fails, and the team fails. Go, and continue to waste your team with your nonsense.

moustacheman
4 years 5 months ago

So Hughes is better than Felix Hernandez then? Continue to live in your dream world…

4 years 5 months ago

I think over time you’ll warm up the idea of using statistics to determine which players are best. Better team, more wins. Don’t be afraid to get below the surface. Keep an open mind.

0vercast
4 years 5 months ago

Good thing for the Yankees you’re not in charge of any decision making.