The Rangers and Blue Jays like Matt Garza and he’s not the only Cubs pitcher about whom other teams are inquiring, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports. Left-hander Sean Marshall is also drawing heavy interest.
The Rangers prefer Gio Gonzalez (four remaining years of team control) to Garza (two remaining years of team control), according to Rosenthal. Garza appeals to the Blue Jays, since they’ve seen the right-hander succeed in the AL East as a starter for the Rays. If the Cubs choose to rebuild, they’d be more likely to trade for Anthony Rizzo than sign Prince Fielder.
Lack of minor league depth and restrictions on draft spending could motivate the Cubs to make a deal, Rosenthal writes. MLB executives say the Cubs are frustrated by limitations on amateur spending, according to Yahoo's Jeff Passan.
The Cubs were said to be 'open for business' on Garza last month, but president of baseball operations Theo Epstein said he'd like to build around the 28-year-old. Padres GM Josh Byrnes has interest in Garza.
I can’t see them getting two top prospects from anyone’s farm for Garza. They will get one top guy from a system, but not an extra. The man has one really good year (in the NL) and the rest of his career ranges from decent to ok to good. The Cubs are more than welcome to keep him.
He has a career ERA under 4, and spent half his career in the AL East. I think that is better than decent to ok!
Does a career ERA under 4 suddenly give someone ace status? Alot of good players have an ERA under 4. I’m not saying Garza isn’t a good pitcher, he is. The only way the Cubs get that return is because some team is desperate in a SP-starved market.
A ERA under 4 in the AL east makes him a lot better than you are trying to claim he is. And he would most likely be the Ace on your Rangers if they acquired him.
Wrong. Holland and Harrison were as good as him last year and they pitch in the AL in arguably the toughest park to pitch in. Sure you can say those guys have only done it one year, but they’ve both improved every year since they got to Texas and they’ll probably improve even more next season. Then you have Feliz and most likely Yu Darvish who, while they haven’t started in the majors before, have insane stuff and sky high potential. Garza would be a slightly younger version of Colby Lewis for us and that in no way warrants our top prospects.
Then other teams should stop asking about him…
Garza, with his major league success should command at least two of team’s top five prospects. Latos is younger, yes, but as one said has had arm problems and pitched in Petco. Cubs don’t need to trade Garza so they should not accept any offer that does not blow them away. Cubs can and should build around he and Marshall.
did you not factor in control, age, upside and cost?
I am sick of reading more upside more upside. All more upside is potential to be better, possibility to be better, but far from a guarantee. Like adam stated look at the diffrence in stadiums they played in. Not to mention let see how Latos does in a season pitching at Great American.
There are a few reasons why I can refute your value premise, in reality.
A) Latos has had not one, but TWO significant arm issues by age 24. Garza has had none.
B) IF the Yankees are involved, the significance of the contract/team control is much less problematic. Doesn’t matter how many years of control, the Yankees won’t have an issue paying the dollars. Burnett, Jeter, and Soriano all come off the payroll the year Garza is eligible for FA.
C) You and Baseball America pre-2011 both greatly overrate Romine. No one else even considers him a top-2 catcher in the Yankees SYSTEM…and one of those players (Montero) has a 1% shot to even stay at catcher.
D) While Betances is a GOOD piece, he is the next CC physically, cannot repeat his delivery, and because of that, may only be an RP down the road. He’s 23 and already ENORMOUS (Think Prince on a taller frame). His raw stuff is great, but his still very raw and his delivery is worrisome given his lack of athleticism.
sigh
A) that is a creative (and convenient for your argument, go figure!) definition of “significant arm issues”
latos has made 62 starts in 2 seasons. the “much more durable” matt garza has made…63! phew. can you say workhorse? garza threw four more innings last year. more like matt verlander am i right
B) the fact that the yankees don’t need to save money has nothing to do with the question of the relative value of the commodities latos/garza
you people are cherry picking like mad. we have to ignore the yankees’ AL east factor when it comes to projecting garza’s performance in that division despite already knowing what kind of pitcher he was there as recently as 2010. but we DO have to remember that it’s the yankees when it comes to valuing how expensive garza’s salary will be compared to latos’. uh huh. makes sense
C) “romine is overrated”
that is a conclusion without any premises. hard to disagree, though i’m sorely tempted to take your random word over scouts’ consensus
i mean, not a top 2 catcher in front of jesus montero (#3 prospect in baseball and gary sanchez (#30 in baseball)? clearly a bum
almost as much of a bum as grandal, actually, who played second fiddle to mesoraco in cincinnati
D) do you think BA and other scouting groups don’t know about betances’ size? that isn’t a sensible rebuttal to their ranking; his size is incorporated in the ranking
Grandal 2011 .305/.401/.500
Romine 2011 .279/.343/.368
Pretty big difference right there Betances is also at 5 BB/9 so his #43 prospect status is likely in trouble
already acknowledged and accounted for the fact that romine isn’t on grandal’s level
if betances loses ground, it’ll bring the package closer to 50% than 75% – but still not below it. as of july, he was the #26 overall prospect in baseball
I am enjoying reading this debate hours after it has happened but how can you figure Garzas previous AL East experience but not consider that Latos has pitched in the BEST pitchers park in the majors for the last two years…
i used park-adjusted stats to compare the pitchers. have a look at latos’ numbers outside of petco. they’re just as good as his numbers inside it
the padres didn’t need a 1B either, but you’re probably right about that. castillo had a strong season
I think Warren is one of THEE most slept on pitching prospects in baseball. He may never be a #1 or #2 but he can certainly be a solid 225 IP #3 or #4 type.
you need to take over. that’s like 4 comments in a row for me defending the yanks’ talent at length. gotta take a shower
Too funny…I doubt Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, or Phillies overpay for a SP. Each of them are shopping for value which includes team control and likelihood of receiving draft picks when team control ends. Can’t see Cubs getting much more than the equivalent of draft picks a team receives for Garza in two years time. And Theo knows this from experience.
You probably have his value pegged correctly.
KW’s history of trading for prospects doesn’t signify a great talent evaluator.
“….a division with 2 of the best teams in baseball (brewers and Cards)”.
I stopped listening right about at this point.
Yes, the Cards w/a .766 OPS and the Brewers w/ a .750 OPS were mashers but you also had two of the worst teams in the Pirates w/ a .676 OPS and the Astros w/ a .684. The AL East alone offers 4 teams, not including the Yankees, with an OPS above .730.
Garza is a fine pitcher, who one his absolute BEST day is a good #2. But to say he is worth (worth vs whether or not Theo should demand) 3-4 top 50 prospects AND a mlb ready prospect is insane.
Using the Yanks as an example, that would mean Montero, Betances, Banuelos, Sanchez and a Noesi/Warren/Phelps pitcher. Insane.
How in the world do the Cardinals have a better farm than the Yankees?
its not impossible, i don’t agree with that, but Cards farm has gotten a lot better…plus 5 first round picks will help even more.
because the Cards have three pitchers who are as good if not better than Banuelos, and a whole group of talented infielders that are on their way.
If the Jays offered bautista, dArnaud, a couple pitching prospects and ~$50 mil to cover Bautista’s contract, would Price be ‘untouchable’?? Of course not…
Check Latos’ splits he gave up more homeruns at home than on the road so your logic doesnt apply to him.
Yep…if my memory is correct, Yanks had many young pitchers in the various minor league Top 20 lists.
If Latos projections for 2012 are correct, he will be a 5 WAR player at age 24. David Price was 1.3 WAR at age 24. Price became a 4 WAR player at age 25. Latos did it at age 22.
Garza has only 2 years of control, the Cubs aren’t getting a bundle for him. I’m starting to wonder if their teams really want to trade Gio and Garza.
What is it with this “only 2 years of control” crap? Seriously, teams usually get a haul for good pitchers with just one year of control left(Lee, Sabathia) so one who has two is even more valuable. Its rare that someone gets traded with 3-4 years left, but because one did all of a sudden that makes Garza and his 2 years less valuable? That is a real ignorant argument that your guys keep throwing out there.
Garza isn’t exactly CC but he will return a nice haul(probably nothing close to what the Cubs paid)
”
Garza pitched in Wrigley and posted a 3.32 ERA last year with 197 K’s in 198 innings with 2 complete games”.
Latos = 185 in 194 IP and a 3.47 ERA (3.16 FIP) not a major difference.
“Garza is only 28 years old”.
Latos is 24, is cheaper and has 4 years of control left vs Garza who is into his arbitration years and is 2 years from free agency.
wow..
wow x 3.
The Yanks are better off trying to sign Kuroda than these crazy prices for trades.
hahaha….it WAS 6.4 BB/9………..in 21 IP. Wow….
it was also 4.7 (still high) in 105 IP @ AA last year too. Along with 10 K/9 and a tiny little 7.3 H/9.
He’s rated as high as he is DESPITE his control issues. If he didn’t have those issues then he’s a top 5 prospect.
well…im sure we can say a lot of people would be very good prospects if we ignored their biggest flaw.
But getting good command is something very difficult to have. And it does not even look like he can get it at this point neither. Where does Brackman end up? after being named in top 100 pre-2011 and now being non-tendered. Jonathan Sanchez when he was a prospect, was ranked as high as Betances and his BB/9 & K/9 were MUCH better than Betances but he burned out. I’ve seen Betances pitching in minor number of times but his mechanism just failed me to imagine him getting good control of his pitches.
What you are saying is pretty much like if Wily Mo Pena has ability to draw walks then he would have been top 5 prospects which of course, never happened in a million years.
Hey if they could get Pomeranz and other top prospects like Wheeler, Bettis, and others why not?
Sorry but Yankee fans really over hype thier prospects
Way too much for Garza, he has only 2 years of control.
I am hoping the Yanks don’t end up with Garza. keeping him out of the AL East is just fine with me and when the Rays shipped him off the the Cubbies was a happy day here, he was one tough cookie IMO as someone who does watch a lot of Rays games.
As for that proposed package saw above for Danks.. Gotta agree, one overpay and also.. Danks on the Yanks is not a huge upgrade anyway and not someone to fear, neither would be Floyd.
If the NYY wish to throw away their top prospects on one of Williams SP.. Have at it, better than Cashman going after a better one elsewhere.
I am hoping the Yanks don’t end up with Garza. keeping him out of the AL East is just fine with me and when the Rays shipped him off the the Cubbies was a happy day here, he was one tough cookie IMO as someone who does watch a lot of Rays games.
As for that proposed package saw above for Danks.. Gotta agree, one overpay and also.. Danks on the Yanks is not a huge upgrade anyway and not someone to fear, neither would be Floyd.
If the NYY wish to throw away their top prospects on one of Williams SP.. Have at it, better than Cashman going after a better one elsewhere.
They’re also getting Marshall. Texas gave up Erlin, BA mid season #34, and Weiland, a pretty good 21 year SP for Mike Adams. Match that up for Marshall and then figure pretty close to/better than the Latos haul. Supply and demand. A SP in demand went to an unexpected team. One less SP to be sold. Same number of buyers.
I love Adams. Might be his biggest advocate because I think he’d be a top 5 closer in all major categories if the Rangers gave him the job. That opinion aside, I think that midseason trade will be remembered as the most lopsided trade of memory. Erlin and Wieland both did even better after coming over to the padres; and personally I think Wieland is better going into 2012. The best thing Beane can do is not trade Gio. Let him put up dominating numbers and trade him for a haul at the deadline. Like Mike Adams he’ll have one extra year of team control so he could bring back the greatest return of next July 31st. I would wait for the right deal. If Beane does that it will enhance Garza’s market more; but I don’t think Garza warrants more than 2 B prospects and a throw in.
Texas gave up two pitchers who are easily replaceable in our system. Granted, they are very talented players and I’m sure they’ll both be quality starters in a park like SD’s, but finding guys with decent stuff and excellent command like Erlin and Weiland isn’t hard to find. In fact, the Rangers already have two guys in Robbie Ross and Cody Buckel who have already proven this point. So while it may be considered lopsided, it’s just Texas giving up two solid pitchers, who probably never wouldve had good success in Arlington with their lack of elite stuff and concerning HR numbers, for an elite reliever.
They’re also getting Marshall. Texas gave up Erlin, BA mid season #34, and Weiland, a pretty good 21 year SP for Mike Adams. Match that up for Marshall and then figure pretty close to/better than the Latos haul. Supply and demand. A SP in demand went to an unexpected team. One less SP to be sold. Same number of buyers.
No, they definitely do. But probably wouldn’t pull the trigger.
That doesn’t even pass the laugh test.
95% of teams in MLB would rather have D’Arnaud than Montero, Banuelos is a nice pitcher but he like Brackman and Betances has big control problems.
In Pomeranz and Arenado the Rockies have a top 10 pitcher and a top 10 hitter, they aren’t coughing up either for Garza. White, Wheeler, and Story will all likely make the top 100 though.
Yeah even CJ couldn’t touch Gio’s terrible BB number.
I’d laugh too if the A’s can pull off a big trade for Gio. They’d be swindling any team who trades top prospects thinking they’d get a top pitcher.
A) Anthony Rizzo won’t be the centerpiece I any trade. B) Please provide some sort of proof that the new Cubs’ brass isn’t high on Brett Jackson. Five tool center fielders are exactly what they are high on.
Texas doesn’t need Garza. They already have Darvish (assuming he gets signed), Lewis, Holland, Harrison, Feliz plus Ogando and Feldman if needed which is a heck of a rotation with a ton of upside. I could see a deal for Marshall seeing as Texas could use a top lefty reliever, but with Oliver and Gonzalez plus others still on the market, I doubt that happens either. Cubs fans seem to be jumping at the hope of getting a Profar, Perez, etc. type player in their system for a #2-3 starter and/or reliever but it’s just not happening.
You must not know what a five tool player is, or how to read scouting reports. Every scouting report says he is a five tool player that does everything well, but not one thing exceptionally well. I never said he was the second coming of Billy Williams. I said he was a five tool player that is the exact type of player the new Cubs’ brass wants to have in the system.
Felix Pie and Corey Patterson have exactly nothing to do with Brett Jackson.
That’s not to say Jackson is a future superstar, but to suggest the Cubs will never develop a good outfielder because Pie and Patterson didn’t work out several years ago is ridiculous.
Billy Williams?
maybe he’ll be the second coming of Lando Calrissian.
(Cubs lost that last round of Star Wars — they thought they bought a Han Solo a.k.a. Alfonso Soriano and he turned out to be as useful as a storm trooper)