Phillies Notes: Hamels, Howard, Halladay

Yesterday we learned that the Phillies have begun calling teams to see about trade interest in Cole Hamels.  Here's the latest on the left-hander..

  • An executive who spoke with the Phillies‬ says he can't see them unloading Cole Hamels and other pieces until after Ryan Howard and Roy Halladay return in mid-July, according to Jayson Stark of ESPN.com (via Twitter).
  • General Manager Ruben Amaro Jr. denounced rumors of the club shopping Hamels and told reporters, including Matt Gelb of the Philadelphia Inquirer, that he plans to keep the pitcher in Philly in the "short term and long term."  When asked if he believes re-signing Hamels is realistic, he answered in the affirmative.  Meanwhile, a baseball source says contact between the GM and Hamels' agent, John Boggs, has been almost nonexistent.
  • The Phillies will not be trading any major piece anytime soon, opines Gelb.  Gelb believes that Amaro has simply been gauging interest in his top pieces and won't necessarily move anyone.


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36 Comments on "Phillies Notes: Hamels, Howard, Halladay"


nm344
3 years 1 month ago

Common sense stuff here.  Although if in 2 weeks the team is completely out of it, the smart thing is to reload for 2013.

3 years 1 month ago

How long until Amaro gets fired ?  Or will it take another trading away cliff lee followed by a subsequent trading for cliff lee ?

nm344
3 years 1 month ago

Why would he get fired? 3 years of division titles, 1 WS appearance under his watch.  You think not making the playoff once is grounds for a firing?

Casor_Greener
3 years 1 month ago

That fact that he has substantially increased payroll while exiting earlier in the postseason each year is surely a cause for a firing.

nm344
3 years 1 month ago

Really? Playoffs are a crapshoot to start with, the goal is just to get there.  Secondly, yes as teams get older they get more expensive.  So what if the payroll went up when the team can afford it?

Christopher Jacobs
3 years 1 month ago

 Incorrect.  The Phillies won in 08 (Gillick team) and have progressively gotten worse every year under Amaro.  In 09 they made the WS (still that Gillick team) and every year since it has been earlier and earlier playoff exits.  Amaro gave horrible contracts to Howard and Rollins as well well going out to get Lee (seemed like a good move at the time) even though he spent the money that would have gone to Hamels.  Fact is Amaro chose the 33 year old Lee over the 28 year old Hamels (who is a WS MVP, brought the city its first title since 83, and was “home grown” in that he came up through the Phillies system).

paul_oneills_lovechild
3 years 1 month ago

Since you seem to relish in your facts…can you please break it to the Orioles that they did not win a title in ’83…I think they might be a little disappointed.  I’m not a Phillies fan, whatsoever, and I even know that before ’08, they last won in ’80.

On another note, I really hope the Yanks somehow can scoop up Hamels…that would be nirvana!

nm344
3 years 1 month ago

Playoffs are a crapshoot, the strength of a team is best measured by its regular season record.  Most of the time the best team doesn’t win the WS.  The goal of every GM is to get  the team to the playoffs.

3 years 1 month ago

Look these things happen. I don’t blame Ruben. No one was complaining when we landed Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, Pence and others over the past five years. Its been an AMAZING run. The best I have ever experienced as a life long phillies fan. But like life dictates time makes players older. We knew this day was coming. Can’t win every year fellas. Time now to bite the bullet and move on. 

I love Hamels and what he did for this team and it would suck losing him, but if it means getting the likes of a Mike Olt and maybe 2 other prospects to start rebuilding I’d do it. That said the phillies are not short on pitching prospects. Lee and Halladay are both having down years obviously and we can hope they bounce back next year. Getting a guy like Olt (if it is possible) would give us a good lookin young power right handed bat at 3B to build around. Throw other guys we have and hit free agency we can reload the team and go at it next year. 

3 years 1 month ago

AMEN… I HAVE SCREAMING AT PEOPLE ALL YEAR ABOUT THIS. AND YES I AM SCREAMING.  I am so sick and tired of this RAJ bashing. In my opinion there is only 2 mistakes that he made..Howard Contract and trading away Lee. Other than nothing has really killed the phillies payroll wise. Don’t give me Polanco if a team with this payroll cannot absorb 6 million for steady not great play than they are not the big market team everyone thinks.

Hey Its Placido Polanco
3 years 1 month ago

Ruben’s trades aren’t at fault – they were good deals made to try to chase a title.  But it certainly is appropriate to criticize how he put together the bullpen and bench the last few years.  He’s botched the smaller signings.

3 years 1 month ago

what about botching the treatment of top prospect dominic brown.  if they handled him right he would have been ready to replace ibanez.  but your brain trust decided to let him come up and play part time and stall his development.  

I think its too early to tell if he lost out on the Happ Oswalt trade.  1 1/2 years of oswalt for a cost effective young lefty.

Hey Its Placido Polanco
3 years 1 month ago

Dom Brown turned into a mess in the field because of getting called up a couple months early?  That’s a pretty big leap there.

3 years 1 month ago

Its not just a few months early.  Its the lack of regular at bats and being miscast as a pinch hitter.  I personally feel being asked to pinch hit in the world series may have been a mistake and turning point for the kid.  It may seem harmless but that kind of failure can trigger something in a persons ego.  100% speculation on my part btw.

And when he came up in 2010 he should have been up for good through thick and thin otherwise it could destroy his confidence.

nm344
3 years 1 month ago

Brown cant field well enough yet. That’s the reason he didn’t make the team this spring. 

Slopeboy
3 years 1 month ago

@Jonny as well…
Welcome to the high payroll & expectations club fellas. Having lived through this, I can commiserate with you. We as fans get used to winning and at times forget that it’s not that easy doing it year after year.
The one fault I will throw at Ruben is that he has not stocked any ML ready position players in the minors. That being said, he deserves a few more years to get the team back. He certainly doesn’t deserve to be thrown to the dogs as is happening now.

johnsilver
3 years 1 month ago

 They got old and continued to go down the path rather than let a few walk when they should have and not trying to slam them here. Rollins was just the latest example of a guy far past his prime who should have been allowed to walk and is being paid far too much at an advanced age when they should have/could have found a stop gap type player for less and saved some of that money. They knew the farm system wasn’t exactly loaded when that extension was made, yet went ahead and made it. Same with that Papelbon 4 year deal that will easily turn into 5 years guaranteed.

I really hope they don’t move Lee, but this team is just getting old now all at once, injuries, now a few key FA at once about to walk and that money they spend out LT on Papelbon and Rollins could have really been far better spent on someone say… Hamels??

bigpat
3 years 1 month ago

Even though this season has to be disappointing as a Phillies fan, this is the reality of baseball unless you are the Yankees who can rebuild with a 200M payroll (no offense but they have unlimited resources).

They spent truckloads of money as the team got better and they won a WS along with another appearance in the big game. It was going to sting in a few years, and while RAJ could have softened the blow by making a few better moves, overall it was a success. Winning a WS trumps all, I’m sure Cubs fans would be more than excited to suck for a few more years if it meant they’d finally win a WS. 

Slopeboy
3 years 1 month ago

While I understand and take no offense at what you say regarding high payroll, I do feel the need to refute the myth that big money is the only reason for the Yankees success. Yes they have a slew of huge contract players, but the team is
made whole by the smaller contract players that produce and contribute to winning.
Scouting and smart descisions are what ultimately keep a team competitive year in
and year out.

The Tiger,Cubs,Dodgers,Angels,Orioles, to name a few are teams that have spent significant amounts of money the last few years and have very little to show for it.What they haven’t done, until recently is make sound baseball moves.
What the Yanks have done is put in place pieces that help in winning, at modest cost. Granted, big money allows you outspend mistakes, but not consistently.
Once you get pass the big names, their roster is made up modest salaried guys
that can play. Jones, Ibanez, Chavez, Stewert and Nix on the bench. Epply,Wade,Rapada, Logan and Robertson, who came up through the system, and Is not a big contract in the BP. Swisher and Granderson came in trades and Kuroda and Martin were modest signings that any team could have done. Last year Garcia and Colon were both signed for less than $6MM and contributed immensely and few remember that.

This year Andy Pettitte comes back for $2.5MM and everyone assumes that he’s making tons of money.This is the reason that Cashman gets no repect for the job he does every year. Most fans focus on the big names and come to the conclusion that it’s the big payroll that makes them the consistent winners.

Jason Klinger
3 years 1 month ago

 As a Phillies fan, the hardest thing to watch this year hasn’t been the bullpen, but the lack of motivation and heart from guys like Jimmy Rollins and Shane Victorino. Jimmy looks unplugged and Shane clearly has his mind on his next deal. Throw in a bunch of injuries and a bewilderingly ineffective Cliff Lee, and you have the makings of “one of those years.”

I hope RAJ comes to his senses and extends Cole Hamels. You build teams around good pitching, and trading or letting the homegrown lefty walk would be a huge blow to the psyche of that clubhouse.

3 years 1 month ago

It’s easy to get mad at Amaro now because the team suffered injuries to their key players and guys who should have done well have not. Before the season Amaro addresses the closer problem by signing one of the best closers in baseball and he has done his job. He also tried to find a guy who could fill in for Howard, that was Wiggington, who has been a huge disappointment. As a GM the only descisions he has made that I have not liked have been the Rollins contract as well as all the coontracts which he gave the player a whole other year more than they should have. Other than that he aquired and signed super stars, he assembled on paper what looked like an all-star team. He tried to win and it is not his fault that the players did not live up to their expectations. Now when he is trying to rebuild the farm by trading Hamels who wants to test free agency anyway people still object. He is the GM other teams would die to have, he makes gutsy calls, but always gets the guy that he wants and that the team needs. He’s a GM who will do anything to win

coolstorybro222
3 years 1 month ago

They already have so much money put into Halladay, Pence, Victorino, and Howard. Utley is also owned money, so they have a crapload of money on the books already, and They did trade some big propects to get Pence. I just feel they need to trade Hamels because he is not going to sign with them unless Amaro has a secret stash somewhere. Plus they will have to pay a luxury tax if they do end up signing Hamels to a extension.

fighterflea
3 years 1 month ago

As a Philly fan, I recognize the tendency for fans to attach to players who contributed to the team’s success including the 2008 title.  But Hamels has never won more than 15 games in a season and stretches the reasonable definition of a $20 million pitcher, let alone the overage he is seeking, over perhaps as many as 7 years.  There is a reason that business-minded execs don’t throw around 7 year contracts  — it’s a blueprint for disaster.  In short, if Hamels doesn’t accept a generous Phils’ offer in free agency, there is a quality pitcher comparable to Hamels who will.  In the meantime, the Phils are showing their holes and a successful trade of Hamels and Victorino can yield young talent on the mound, third base and the outfield.  The Phils need more salary-controlled players in their lineup and on their bench and trading Hamels can start them on this long overdue direction.

nm344
3 years 1 month ago

Phils are going to be contending next year whether they trade Hamels or not.  They will either re-sign him or trade him for prospect.  Either way they’ll still have plenty of talent next season to compete.

crashcameron
3 years 1 month ago

not sure this has been a “great” or excellent” run for the Phils.
very good, but for the money spent … ?   a world series is always great. epic for Frisco. great for Cardinals. but the Phils GAGGED against the Yanks. they are a bit like the Angels in the 2000s: spent lots, won their division always, but what did they do in the end?
Phils / RAJ spent way too heavy on the top end. and like a building without a solid foundation, it takes just a couple of holes and ‘down goes Frazier.’

nm344
3 years 1 month ago

What the heck are you talking about? Yankees in 09 were the best team in baseball, I don’t think anyone ‘gagged’.  Only gagging here is due to reading posts like yours.

crashcameron
3 years 1 month ago

the Phillies barely showed up, barely gave a fight. this wasn’t young team suddenly in over their heads. this wasn’t veteran scrappers suddenly hitting a wall.
adversity 1, Phils 0.
they gagged.

Ben_Cherington
3 years 1 month ago

For what its worth, I did.

3 years 1 month ago

I saw it as a possibilty.  Phils are aging its as simple as that.  

Ben_Cherington
3 years 1 month ago

Agreed.  And by no means was that an insult to the Phillies or their Phans.  I like the team, but with the age and injuries, along with the Nationals, Braves, and Mets getting better and younger, it makes for a long season if your are Phils fan.

LazerTown
3 years 1 month ago

They are aging, but I honestly still thought they had enough to push through, their pitching still had a ton of potential, but they have allowed among the most runs in the league this year.

3 years 1 month ago

Yep I am trying to be objective as a mets fan, not always easy btw.  They could regret some of their moves a few years down the line.  

Wonder if they cant sign Hamels, where he could end up.  28 year old lefty will be pricey though so take “my” small market mets out of the running.

Ben_Cherington
3 years 1 month ago

I dont think they will regret their moves.  They were all in and going for a title, they had a great run of 5 or so years.  I think if the Phillies fall out of contention for the next 2 yrs, they would look back on it and do it all over again.

Amilcar Cuevas
3 years 1 month ago

Wouldn’t it make more sense to see what you could get for Cliff Lee. The team trading for him will give more since they know they will have him for at least 3 more years and an option for a fourth which means they will be willing to give more knowing they aren’t trading the farm and getting nothing in return. Then take the money your saving on trading Lee and resign Hamels. Give him a similar deal. A lil more yearly since he’s younger, more talented, and in his walk year which so happens to be the best season he’s ever had. Am I not making sense or what?

Casor_Greener
3 years 1 month ago

IT’s attitudes like this that create the Mets team of a few years ago.

Amilcar Cuevas
3 years 1 month ago

TY and I am a Mets fan. LOL. WO a doubt the Yankees would love to have him.