The baseball world remains focused on last night’s stunning blockbuster that sent Rafael Devers to San Francisco. There’ll surely be more from the Giants once Devers reports to the team tomorrow, but there’s already been plenty of note out of Boston.
The trade was obviously driven by the deterioration of the relationship between Devers and the Red Sox. That stemmed from the three-time All-Star’s frustration with being moved off third base when the Sox signed Alex Bregman. Devers initially indicated he was unwilling to change positions before begrudgingly agreeing to serve as the designated hitter. He was more adamant in refusing to even take pregame reps at first base after the Sox lost Triston Casas to a season-ending knee injury. He went public with his displeasure with chief baseball officer Craig Breslow after the team approached him about considering it.
Peter Abraham of The Boston Globe posted last night that the team felt that Devers’ franchise-record $313.5MM contract came “with responsibilities to do what is right for the team” which the infielder had not met. More specifically, Sean McAdam of MassLive writes that the Sox feared that Devers’ frustrations with the position changes would send a poor message to their younger players — especially their talented rookie trio of Roman Anthony, Marcelo Mayer and Kristian Campbell.
Breslow alluded to the clubhouse culture in a Zoom call with reporters this evening (YouTube link to 38-minute conversation). “It’s the willingness to step up and sacrifice at times of need and essentially do whatever is necessary to help the team win,” the former MLB reliever said when speaking generally about successful teams of which he’d been a part. “I think that’s the identity, this relentless pursuit of winning, that we’re looking for.” He declined to directly answer a follow-up question from ESPN’s Jeff Passan as to which areas Devers was not meeting those standards.
CEO Sam Kennedy and Breslow repeated multiple times on the call that the team and Devers could no longer “find alignment.” Breslow indicated that Devers did not formally request a trade, though he added that “there were times during the course of conversations with Raffy’s camp where they had indicated that perhaps a fresh start would be best for both sides.”
This was evidently under consideration for a while. Giants president of baseball operations Buster Posey told the San Francisco beat last night that they’d been in conversations with the Sox about Devers for a few weeks (relayed by Alex Pavlovic of NBC Sports Bay Area). While Breslow did not provide any specifics on the talks, McAdam reported this morning that the Braves, Blue Jays and Padres had also inquired about Devers’ availability.
Ultimately, those teams weren’t willing to top the Giants’ offer. San Francisco assumed the remaining eight and a half seasons and more than $250MM remaining on Devers’ contract. They sent back starter Kyle Harrison, two prospects (including last year’s first rounder James Tibbs III), and righty Jordan Hicks. There’s some element of salary offset with Hicks’ inclusion, as he’s under contract for $12.5MM annually through 2027. San Francisco signed Hicks with an eye towards stretching him out as a starter, but he failed to hold a rotation role in either of his first two seasons. They’d moved him back to the bullpen before he landed on the injured list with toe inflammation early this month.
Breslow described Hicks as “a dominant late-inning reliever,” suggesting they don’t intend to build him back out for another rotation attempt. Harrison was optioned to Triple-A Worcester but figures to get a rotation look later in the season. It seems clear the Red Sox accepted a significant downgrade in the short term, though Breslow tried to make the case that “there is a real chance that at the end of the season, we’re looking back and we’ve won more games than we otherwise would have.”
While that seems unlikely, Hicks and Harrison are potential short-term contributors. “We needed to create a more functional roster and give certain guys more playing time, be able to rotate through the DH spot and potentially match up there,” Breslow said. “This is a roster that certainly has some needs — starting pitching, bullpen help — and we think that we addressed some of those in the return. Additionally, I do think that it gives us some resources as we head toward the deadline.”
RosterResource now calculates the Sox’s luxury tax number right around the $241MM base threshold. Cot’s Baseball Contracts has them slightly below the line at roughly $238MM. Any tax payment would be minimal since they didn’t pay the CBT last season (and therefore aren’t subject to repeat payor penalties). The decision whether to exceed the threshold could have an impact on next year’s payroll and compensation if they sign any free agents who decline a qualifying offer.
Chris Cotillo of MassLive reported this morning that the Red Sox continue to view themselves as deadline buyers. Breslow didn’t commit to a direction six weeks in advance of July 31, but he stated that this trade ” is in no way signifying a waving of the white flag on 2025. We are as committed as we were six months ago to putting a winning team on the field, to competing for the division and making a deep postseason run.”
The Sox entered tonight’s series opener in Seattle with a 37-36 record that has them half a game back in the Wild Card race. They’d been riding high, winning five straight and coming off a sweep of the Yankees. While the trade had seemingly been coming together for weeks, making the deal after arguably the Sox’s best series of the season (culminating in a game in which Devers homered off Max Fried) was certainly jarring.
Tim Healey of The Boston Globe was among those to chronicle the reactions from Sox players before tonight’s game. “Probably just as shocked as everyone else. That’s the best way to describe it, didn’t really see it coming,” Trevor Story told reporters. “The timing of it comes at a weird time. We thought we were playing really good.” Jarren Duran and Garrett Crochet also acknowledged being taken aback, with Crochet calling it “a shock for sure, after the run we just had this past week.”
Nevertheless, the prevailing sentiment was that the team is confident about the players who remain on the roster. Crochet and Walker Buehler each stated that the front office did not owe the clubhouse an explanation. “From the outside perspective, that would seem like a logical thing,” Buehler said. “But this is part of the business. We have no reason to get an explanation. They made a decision. Our job remains the same.”
I get why Boston fans are mad, but ultimately this seems like it had to happen. Why on Earth Devers refuses to just play 1B when he’s making millions I will not understand. The Red Sox lost their 1B, added a bat who is best served playing 3B, and have too many DHs. I’m sure they figured Devers might just be reasonable, but he wasn’t. I get on them a lot, but I hardly put this on them.
Devers response to this was poor but treating your star player like a utility infielder wasn’t exactly strategic on the Sox part, they are most definitely a worse off team today because of that.
If they wanted Devers to play 1B they should have started that process in the spring and traded Casas to clear space. There are very few examples of star players being asked to do this
But a lot of star players aren’t one of the worst defenders at their position in the majors, which let’s face it was why Bregman was signed.
David Ortiz:
“No one is indispensable on a team. The only way to become indispensable is by doing things the right way, all the way around. You need to be available. I think that marked the end of the relationship between the Red Sox and Devers. You have to be smart. A player’s worst enemy is his ego. And guess what teams do with your ego? They buy it.”
x.com/BOSSportsGordo/status/1934655556423180493
I was thinking that Devers was justified to be unhappy. However, I’m going to trust Ortiz’s take on the situation.
Ortiz played first base whenever needed and said he was always available to do so. Devers was only asked to do it because of injuries.
I think both perspectives can be true. I agree with Papi’s perspective, and I agree with the Red Sox perspective that he should’ve handled himself differently.
I think mistakes were made every step of the way, going all the way back to the financial missteps that prevented them from retaining Mookie.
We will never know all the missed opportunities to get this right on a personal level, but people are complex and it seems likely that both sides puffed up their chests at the wrong times. Breslow seems to think and communicate like a player instead of as a leader of an organization.
It looks worse on the org than it does Devers, IMO, because bottom line the results are poor and this move gives them flexibility but doesn’t make them better.
“retaining Mookie”
Mookie was a completely separate situation that happened 5 years ago. Get over it.
Funny, but didn’t the Red Sox always know that he was sub average defender at 3rd….not like they didn’t know it when he was touted as their next superstar, or when they gave him that HUGE extension…….seems like Monday morning QB’ing to me…..
rocky7:
– Red Sox did know he was a poor defender.
– His defense was factored into the huge extension. After Betts and Bogaerts, they were under great pressure to get positive news in the form of a signing. So it was a bit of an over-sign, but necessary.
– Whats MM QBing?
I’m not a Red Sox fan so.. I’m already over it?
@gomer33, but the RedSox knew this when they gave him the mega-extension to play 3B.
@good The guy was being paid $300M+. That’s an enormous sum even in pro sports economics. When a team invests that much in a player in turn a player should be investing heart, effort, and leadership back into the team. Any notion that he was dome wrong is absurd. If he wanted to stay at 3B maybe he should ve worked harder at it in the offseason. Maybe he did and hes simply not capable of being an average 3B glove in MLB terms.
Regardless of what it is, he was given the type of contract that one should be selfless and showing leadership traits not publicly complaining. Bregman was an improvement at 3B, also bolstered the lineup which in turn provided protection in lineup which bolstered Devers biggest asset his bat.
@rocky Also funny the only team it’s seems would take his contract also dint view him as a 3B. It seems that it was inevitable he’d no longer find himself there.
Red Sox paid for his bat, if Devers felt he should have been guaranteed 3B he should have had stipulated in his contract. If doing so would ve taken away financial leverage so be it if hes that entrenched in his stance. He sure seemed didn’t miss maximizing leverage from a financial point of view, at the time it satisfied him as he accepted the contract.
also he refused to sign,they couldn’t make him sign so they got something for him, mookie is a bullshitter,he always claimed he would go to free agency, then he signed as soon as he got to LA, Mookie is full of crap
except Breslow didn’t sign him to that extension, the previous GM did, you can’t hold him to promises made by the guy he replaced, he didn’t make those supposed promises
Monday morning quarterback
again Breslow didn’t sign him the previous GM did
Dusty, listen to the press conference. ALL of the bad treatment was BY Devers, not by the Red Sox. He refused to do what was in the best interest of winning.
Devers was injured. He couldn’t play any position in spring training. They couldn’t start then.
There are hundreds of examples of star players players being asked to move position and doing so willingly and without complaint. A former Red Sox, future HOF player Mookie Betts is just one of hundreds of examples of that happening. A huge number of the top players in baseball have been asked to move position over the last few seasons. Harper. Judge, Betts, Tucker, Rodriguez, Semien, Tatis, Bogaerts, Machado, and many, many others.
What there are no examples of is star players coming out to the media and refusing to move position.
Hundreds of examples but you can’t even name 5 proper ones. Moving outfield positions is not a position change, signing in free agency with agreement to move positions is a players choice, having a significant injury and moving positions is also not applicable, betts and tatis are the only good examples you were able to muster up.
And you’re also wrong about your last statement, no surprise
Just off the top of my head machado, tulo, jeter, soriano, gleyber, ramirez all refused to move positions at some point.
Less examples of this, because of course teams usually wouldn’t put their stars in this position.
Altuve is playing LF, Tatis is playing RF, Chipper Jones played LF, Freddie Freeman played 3B, Miguel Cabrera played 3B.
Cabrera came up a 3b
Moving outfield positions is not a position change
Moving from left field to right field is a position change my guy
Most outfielders get reps across the outfield, or at the corners in the minors. It’s not a new position, my guy
It’s not a new position my guy
I didn’t say new position my guy. Lol
Roberto Alomar refused to move from 2B to SS with the Padres. He was a future Hall of Famer @ 2B. At SS? Maybe not was his logic. He was traded to the Blue Jays.
Cabrera was signed as a shortstop, moved to third base, then both outfield corners before settling in at first base for his first few years for the Tigers before moving back over to third base when they signed Prince Fielder. Albert Pujols was drafted as a 3B, saw time at all 4 corners for the first 3 years of his career, and the finally settled in at first base in 2004. Jim Thome, similarly to Cabrera, was drafted as a shortstop, moved to first base when he was 26, and then designated hitter when he was 35. Craig Biggio went from catcher to second base, to outfield, then back to second base in his career. Bryce Harper moves to first base to accommodate Kyle Schwarber, someone who went from catcher to left field, then designated hitter. Marcus Semien finishes third in MVP voting as a shortstop in 2019, but was still willing to move to second base in 2021. Both Mickey Mantle and Hank Aaron saw more time at first base as they got older.
I think both parties are at fault here. Boston’s ownership/front office could have handled it better. But Devers has balked at every attempt to move him off third base. I get it’s a position he likes and is familiar with, but even franchise players get moved off their original position all the time.
mlb1225, All good examples, except for maybe Semien. He was a FA, and willingly signed with a team that had already signed a SS. He went to the Rangers knowing, and accepting, that he’d play 2B.
I agree that both sides could have handled it better. Once the resentment started with the Bregman signing, and the team not communicating their plans, it just snow-balled. I think if the Sox had gone to Devers, and told him beforehand that they were signing Bregman, that they wanted Bregman at 3B, and hoped Devers would be willing to DH and start taking reps at 1B, things might have been different. But it was handled in an ad hoc fashion. Players want to know what’s going on.
Then MOVED to 1B. Without refusing to play there. He did what was in the best interest of his team winning the games.
He first went to the Blue Jays in 2021. Sure, he struggled in 2020, but nobody was taking those 60 games with the same grain of salt they would take his 2019 season with. Semien was still willing to move to the other side of 2B for a short term deal.
Early in his career, Alomar did play shortstop. When he was in AA in the San Diego Padres system in 1987 he was moved to shortstop and played 113 games there. He made enough progress that he was considered a potential successor to Garry Templeton at that position. When he was called up the Padres still had the then 32 year old Templeton at SS and Templeton was coming off the best defensive season in the majors at the position. It would have been pretty stupid to move Templeton for the rookie. Alomar later played a few games at SS in the majors in 1990 when needed because of injuries.
Obviously, he didn’t refuse to play SS. He was just a better 2B than a SS and the teams he played for played him in the position he was best suited for.
They took some blame. Breslow said he would learn from it. There are 3 sides to every story.
A-rod, robin yount, molitor
and he certainly won’t be playing 3rd base on his new team!
Meyer was a terrible SS but no one was asking the star player of the NYY and their franchise to move positions. Even when they signed Arod.
There is also a difference between switching positions once and doing it multiple times within a year. It’s not just easy to be learn to be a MLB 1B when you don’t know the position and were told at the beginning of the year you wouldn’t. I think Dever aired too much stuff out publicly but the Sox screwed this communication up with their star player in the offseason. All over getting Bregman for one year (dude is opting out).
And Cabrera did move to 3B while being a superstar for the team. He did not refuse while at the height of his career.
Same goes for Craig Biggio when Houston acquired Jeff Kent.
At the very least Devers should have been taking ground balls, willing to do what it takes to win. At the same time, he wasn’t happy with the Red Sox. Tough to convince a player to do what’s best for the team when he feels the team isn’t doing what’s best for him.
Kike and Ichiro moved to pitcher when needed.
My guy my guy, my guy.
“Meyer was a terrible SS”
He was? Its tough to get analytics on minor leaguers, but here’s his scouting report:
“Instinctual defender with fluid actions. Looks like he is gliding on the field. Soft hands and solid footwork. Moves well and has plenty of range for shortstop. Plus arm, plenty for shortstop. Confident in his arm and able to make all the throws with plenty of zip. Confident defender. Potential above-average defender at short for the foreseeable future.”
Who says he’s a “terrible” infielder, besides you?
Betts came up a 2B in the minors…
Did they really move Harper to accommodate Schwarber? I thought it was due to Harper getting TJS and putting less strain on his arm…Schwarber playing LF was a byproduct of Harper’s injury and a lack of better options
Miggy moved when the Tigers asked
Jays asked Tulo to move off short, he refused. Machado, Soriano both refused moves at times. Doesn’t mean they didn’t end up, which also could be the case for Devers but they DID refuse defensive moves, which is the point
I love how you write too many words about me being wrong about every thing and then you follow with easy to verify facts that you get wrong. Great job bud, you nailed it
Sandberg played SS in the minors, played 3rd his 1st season, then switched to 2nd.
Devers hung his team out to dry after the Casas injury. Also, most of the players you mentioned were at least adequate fielders at their preferred position. Not many players under the age of 30 that I can remember preferred dh to playing somewhere in the field.
A-Rod moved off of SS for a worse player and did it willingly. Devers ego took a hit when they asked him to move off 3B, which is a move everyone in the league knew was going to happen sooner rather than later. He should have been pumped to get back in the field and become a first baseman. Instead, he whined and became a problem.
2B also wasn’t a new position for Semien
@Dustyslambchops
Freedie Freeman moved from 1st to 3rd base in the middle of the season with Atlanta to try and help the team win.
Semien in ‘21 is actually a really good comp for this situation. Semien was a much better SS than Bichette, but since Semien was coming in on a one year deal and Bichette was controlled longer term, it was Semien who moved. Bregman is functionally on a one year deal. He’s obviously better than Devers defensively at 3B, but then what after this year? They have young talent but are they that certain about how impactful those guys will be as major leaguers or where on the diamond they will ultimately end up? We can’t really know but given that Bregman is a really good infielder, I’m pretty sure he’d have greatly improved their 2B defence as well given that Boston has had terrible defensive performance there this year.
I think they’ll find someone just fine. Whether internally or externally. Not likely to replace the offensive production in the lineup though. Not in one player anyway.
Some players that moved to 1B:
C Carlos Delgado
C Gene Tenace
2B Rod Carew
3B Harmon Killebrew
3B Jim Thome
SS Ernie Banks
LF Willie Stargell
LF Carl Yastrzemski
CF Freddie Freeman
RF Stan Musial
Yaz didnt like the move to 1B. But, took it anyways, while earning a massive salary of $175K, because was a leader .
Yaz played it well too. That said I remember him moving back to left in 75 due to Rice breaking his wrist. It was like he turned back the clock against the A’s in the playoffs. He was simply amazing then
dewey, I lived in Boston in the ’80s for school. I was a frequent attendee at Fenway. I saw Yaz play in his last 2, ages 42 and 43 seasons, and I was amazed at how productive he still was.
Stan split his time at first base throughout most of his career, and I’m pretty sure Freeman was a high school 3B, but I agree about toher instances.
Not sure if that was directed at me as I really wasn’t completely disagreeing with you but if that made you feel better, you do you.
Had Devers been a decent defensive 3B this wouldn’t have been an issue. On the other hand, Boston threw big money at him to hit. Both bare responsibility.
Joe Torre moved to 3rd AND 1st
Frank Robinson spent time at 1B for Cincy early on because that’s where they needed him that season
Pete Rose too.
way to move them goalposts, he proved you wrong and you couldn’t even admit it, you just added previously unmentioned stipulations to continue to believe you nonsense
it absolutely is, have you ever played the sport?, what a ridiculous thing to say
Breslow learned from it. He won’t sign a POS like Devers. If one of the players currently on the team tries that BS he will trade them immediately or simply place them on the Restricted list until the pull their heads out of their nether regions.
Devers was injured when he arrived at camp. He could not play 3B or any position. He couldn’t even hit in a game until the middle of March, more than a month after he first got to spring training. That he refused to move to DH knowing there was no way he could play 3B to start the season and possibly for months after that is just beyond petty. Did he want a paycheck for sitting on the IL when he could be helping the team win? How anyone can say that the Red Sox messed up communications when Devers couldn’t play any position in spring training is simply beyond me. I guess there really are people that stupid. No, this all was 100% Devers fault.
No other team would treat their star like this.
You call me stupid, I call you a blind idiot. Guess we’re even. There is a reason a HOF player looked to acquire Devers on his team, but you’re siding with a nerd like Breslow. I’ll trust Buster’s instincts all day
Red Sox aren’t the championship pedigree organization they once were, they trade their good players, make short term decisions that cost them star power and go cheap.
Red Sox have become a mid market shell of its former self, and its fans are cheering it on
Dusty, that never happened. Here is what happened.
“In late 2018, the Blue Jays released Troy Tulowitzki, with the team owing him $38 million over the remaining two years of his contract, according to the Toronto Sun. This decision came after the team expressed doubts about his ability to consistently play shortstop at a high level. While the team never officially asked him to move positions, the possibility was heavily discussed due to his declining defensive stats and injuries.”
“Toronto has never at any point indicated that it wanted Tulowitzki to change positions, but there has been plenty of speculation in some media circles that’s what the club would end up doing. Declining defensive stats have been used as the main justification, but regardless of the metrics, a move across the diamond doesn’t seem very likely at all.”
mlb.com/news/blue-jays-troy-tulowitzki-talks-posit…
Neither Machado nor Soriano refused to move positions.
You are lying now. Sad that you think that in today’s internet age you think you can do that.
I hate being called a liar, you read half an article and think you know things.
It was well documented that they asked Tulo to move off short, here is a direct quote from a SN article
Last week general manager Ross Atkins, in remarkably candid comments, made a parting seem imminent when he said, “I think it’s unlikely that he plays an above-average shortstop for us for 140 games.”
Here is machado’s quote when he was asked if he would move to 3b “I’m a shortstop. I play shortstop.”
Here’s an article about Soriano refusing to play Lf for the nats espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=2377395
Question, what does it say about you that you came here, read my comments, set out to prove me wrong, did research and STILL got it all wrong.
You’re a dork. Stay out of these arguments, you don’t have the IQ for it
I forgot about RF Bryce Harper
Outinleft let’s also take the Jays situation a step further; after the 2016 season they were losing Edwin Encarnacion to free agency and needed a replacement. Knowing they had an aging Tulowitzki and Donaldson, they sign Kendrys Morales who was a permanent DH by that point for 3 years. On top of that they sign Steve Pearce for 2 years, another DH.
Basically they didn’t have a spot for Tulo, which wasn’t the same scenario as Devers. Bo Bichette wasn’t coming until mid-2019, and back then there was a question as to whether he could handle SS. Rather than have a mentorship situation with Tulo and Bo (and let 2018-19 play out), Jays chose drama.
It’s really irrelevant how the front office handled things and whether they did enough in the off season. What it boils down to is that devers was asked to do something to help the team that was within reason and he refused. Even David Ortiz basically called him childish.
It’s absolutely not irrelevant how the front office is perceived to be treating its star players.
‘Tang It,
“It’s really irrelevant how the front office handled things…”
It depends on your perspective, and the team’s attitude. Yes a player should do everything he can to help the team. But how the team treats their players it’s only irrelevant if it doesn’t care how their players feel about the organization. If the team doesn’t mind having disgruntled players, not willing to help the team, then sure how they treat their players is irrelevant. And if a team decides to operate that way then they shouldn’t complain about a bad clubhouse.
“Devers response to this was poor but treating your star player like a utility infielder”
Utility infielders don’t make $300 million lmao. He put his fragile ego above the team. If you are the face of a team and they ask you to do something, you at least try. If the Mets asked Lindor to be their catcher, he’d be behind the plate tomorrow. He wouldn’t be happy about it but he’d do it.
You have absolutely zero to back that up.
The Mets aren’t dumb enough to ask their star player to move to a new position in season. No team does this, if anything teams usually avoid this and let their stars rot in the position when there is clearly better defensive players on the roster.
If the Mets traded for Hoerner for some reason, can you honestly tell me they would move Lindor off SS? Absolutely not, if you think otherwise you’re lying to yourself
Dusty, actually he does. He has a 48-minute press conference that this entire article is about to back it up. go listen to the press conference.
Never underestimate how dumb the Mets can be….
Linder won’t be catching anytime soon.
Did Jeter ever move off of shortstop? He did not.
They did. It was reported that they asked him to take ground balls at third and at first but he declined. Devers has every right to decide he wants to be dh only but he and the Red Sox handled it badly. Look at star players Mookie Betts and Bryce Harper they moved positions to accommodate the team in season as well.
He does not have the right to refuse to play where the team asks him too. There is nothing the uniform player contract that gives him that right. Devers handled it poorly. The team did what they felt was in the best interest of the team winning more games. Only Devers f’d up.
Harper moved to 1B after TJ because he couldnt play the OF.
Betts is a good example but a rare one, he’s a freak of nature athletically.
Yeah but I mean just going on stature they didn’t have to move but they chose to move because they are team players. Again Devers didn’t have to move but I can just imagine that it probably wasnt good for morale in the clubhouse not having a team guy idk just my opinion.
I don’t disagree overall my point was just that the Red Sox ownership has a big part to play in this and could have handled it better.
Didn’t think that was a controversial opinion but anyways
Yeah I agree with you Boston handled it bad.
Betts came up as an infielder, moved to RF before he became a star and now gets to play SS like he probably always dreamed of. Probably has a lot to do with it
“Moving outfield positions is not a position change”
so what your saying is nick castellanos should play center to free up a spot for schwarber back in left field or even put schwarber to handle center? Saying all outfield positions are the same is the silliest thing i have heard especially with teams being desperate for even a league average hitting center fielder.
Next your going to tell me all infielders are the same and let lindor take a few games off and alonso will take care of short.
Also not included in this list is damn near every player on the padres came up as a short stop from tatis jr, machado, boegerts, heck jackson merrill moved to center in less than half a season or are you saying those guys were / arent star players. Even profar last season is a former shortstop.
How about Pujols moved between lf, to 3b to 1b to dh. You said Cabrera doesnt count but he moved from 3b to the of back to 3b then to 1b and then dh. Sounds like he definitely should count unless you are saying he is not a star player maybe? Call Ripkin Jr moved from short to 3b. Arod moved to 3rd for Jeter even though he was the better fielder, Vlad Guerrero Jr, Joe Mauer, the list goes on and on and on.
Agreed. He was told he’d play 3B when he signed the massive deal. They go out and get Bregman who said he’d be willing to play 2B (just trying to get a contract). Then they hand the 2B job to a rookie who some thought didn’t win a starting job out of ST moving Bregman to 3B and Devers to DH. Devers was also basically told to throw his glove away by Breslow. If this domino effect wasn’t relayed to those involved (especially the “face of the franchise”) one could see how he felt blindsided and betrayed by the FO. Then, after being told his glove was no longer needed and to be a team player and just DH, Casas goes down and they have the gall to tell him to get a different glove and learn an entirely new position – one where he might embarrass himself if he was worse than he was at his original “natural” position? It’s not like all those other players mentioned hadn’t played those other positions at some point in time during their “pro” careers. Harper even caught in JuCo. Betts played all over in the minors. ARod wanted to join a team and get a ring. Schwarber sucked as a catcher and the NL had no DH at the time (in Chicago). Some players are either comfortable enough or athletic enough to change positions – some aren’t. I don’t think Raffy is one of those. Maybe he is? Maybe he felt disrespected by not being in the loop as the franchise player. Maybe something was lost in translation. Either way both sides sucked in their communication. I think we see a different Raffy in SF. Oh, and I love Papi as a player, but he can keep his PED taking adulterous mouth shut on matters that don’t pertain to him.
In one of my first fantasy leagues Pujols had catcher eligibility too. That man went anywhere needed.
A guy Red Sox fans know named mookie Betts was asked to go to 2 different infield positions after being a gold glove right fielder and he didn’t complain one bit and got a ring because of it…
I’m not saying everyone has the mind of mookie but devers knows what’s best for the team and he chose what is best for himself… by getting angry
Those are different situations. The Dodgers’ motivation for asking Betts to move was not because they signed a guy who could play RF and didn’t communicate their intentions. Betts is a better all-around athlete and played CF, RF and 2B for the Sox. Devers never played a single game at 1B in either the MLs or MiLs.
And who’s to say Devers wouldn’t have tried if the seed of resentment hadn’t been planted by the Bregman signing and the lack of communication.
Jean, it doesn’t matter what the Red Sox did or didn’t do.
#1 – NO player has the right to refuse to play any position the team asks them to play. Period. They just don’t.
#2 – Even though he could not play the field at all this spring because of injuries, Devers refused to move to DH. think about how selfish that is.
#3 – Devers then refused to move to 1B after his teammate suffered a season ending injury. That is even more selfish.
I am only surprised that it took the Red Sox so long to get rid of him,. but then I guess that contract for a player that will be only a DH for as long as he is still able to play must have been rough to move.
outinleftfield, You miss my point entirely. I’ve been critical of Devers and I never said a player has the right to refuse to play anywhere. I’ve also blamed both the problem.
The Red Sox handled the Bregman signing, and who was playing where, poorly. And the Sox poor handling is what initiated the resentment that led to Devers’ refusals. If a team pisses you off, you are not going to be willing to just do anything they ask. It doesn’t make the refusals right, but it does explain them.
The business side of baseball gets lost in the bregman signing situation.
You’ve got to remember, breslow was still trying to move Casas for something, ideally sp from SEA…
If you come out and say, straight out, we’re signing bregman as 3B, Devers, we’d like you to 1B. Guess what? You lost *ALL* your leverage on moving Casas ‘only if the price is right’…
But, make the charade Bregman will play 2B, after the player himself said he was willing, instantly the BOS roster has a 2B black hole filled, an incumbent 3B, and, a 1B theyll.move for a quality return but has an everyday role as it sits.
It’s clear as day it makes sense for the public stance from the front office to call bregman a 2B while working trade angles. Did anyone buy it? Who knows. Certainly not as ST progressed far enough along.
But let’s not lose sight of practical reasons, important ones, things were handled as they were. And given devers refusal even in ST as bregman is getting starts claiming ‘I’m the 3B’….. who knows what was said behind closed doors and when. That’s just speculation. Maybe devers was told earlier, and, was petty about it believing if he was stubborn enough bregman would just go to 2B?
Of the two sides, one was running immediately to the media and mouthing off, and, one played it close to the vest and held back.
Devers was talking like that last year as well… I don’t know how they tried communicating with him, but it dates back before the Bregman signing.
I agree that there are good reasons why front offices don’t share their details publicly.
GaSox – Here is the difference between a flat-out lie and an acceptable stretching of the truth:
“Raffy you are my 3B for the upcoming season”. = Flat Out Lie
“Raffy we’d like you to learn 1B because there’s a possibility you may be moving off 3B” = Stretching the truth
The first is horrific and disrespectful, the second is acceptable.
Here’s another example:
‘Casas the trade chatter is false, we will not be trading you before or during this season” = Flat out lie
“Casas as with any player if there’s an opportunity to improve the team a trade is always possible but not likely because we want to keep you”. = Stretching the truth
This is really basic Managerial Skills and Communication Skills that both Cora and Kennedy should have by now. But the Red Sox front office is a clownshow, so they don’t.
See the problem with pathological liars such as Cora and Kennedy is they always choose to lie, even when they don’t have to. It comes easy for them, like when Cora insisted Raffy was great on defense last year. It was just another unnecessary lie that made the situation even worse.
As for running to the media, I have to defend Cora/Kennedy on that one. They have an obligation to answer media questions on a regular basis, just like players. Sure Raffy played it close to the vest and held back, it was easier for him to do because players aren’t obligated to do as many interviews and he was always able to use a translator which made it more difficult for reporters to drill him. Remember he always said he spoke through an interpreter because he didn’t want to be misunderstood, that’s how nice a guy he is and how much he cared about accuracy.
You have a lot of years to enjoy this great game. I can tell by your post here. Enjoy it. And enjoy players that play for their teammates
What about injuries. What if Casas got hurt?. What if Bregman got hurt. You gotta be able to count on your guys. Especially the one in the clubhouse making 300mil hoping he’s a leader…
Meanwhile Mookie is in LA playing RF, SS, 2B, QB, TE, PG, etc.
I remember Freddie Freeman offering to play 3B to keep Matt Adams in the lineup.
Winners win. Simple as that. Devers is a flat out loser for how he handled this. Acts like Breslow asked him to turn in his TPS reports.
Rct.. There are alot of recent examples of star players being asked to move positions.heres are 10 off the top of my head…puljols, Harper, Cabrera, Bellinger, Schwarber, vlad Jr, yordon alvarez, arod, Betts,stanton ..why is Devers more special than any of them?
The big red machine sure had a big cog that did whatever asked
Hey Pete, Helms is looking good at second, we’d like you to move out to left field
Hey Pete, we brought in Alex Johnson to replace Tommy Harper and Alex is best suited for left, we’d like you to move to right field
Hey Pete, between newly acquired Geronimo along with Foster and Tolan all being better suited for CF & RF we’d like you to move to Left
Hey Pete, Driessen isn’t progressing as we thought he would, we’d like to get Foster, Geronimo and Griffey full time reps in the outfield and move you to third base.
Hey Pete, we want to sign you as a free agent, but we have Schmidt over at third, we want you to play first base
Career, over 500 games at 5 different positions
The players that put the team and winning ahead of themselves just say yes and give it their all.
Maybe star players aren’t asked to do this very often, but we have examples where THEY do the asking. When Rhys Hoskins went down on the Phillies, Schwarber and Castellanos volunteered to hold down the position until Harper’s elbow was ready to return. They had three stars jump to fill that 1B role.
Maybe the Sox shouldn’t have asked or handled it some other way, but I also can’t help thinking Devers should have volunteered before it could be suggested.
Dustyslambchops23
If they wanted Devers to play 1B they should have started that process in the spring
=======================
Maybe they didn’t know Casas would hurt his knee in a fluke play and be out for the season.
None of what you wrote explains why Devers is such an immature baby..
D23
There is a giant list of great players moving off there original position when a superior player is brought in. In hindsight Devers moving to 1st should have been in discussions seasons ago. Definitely not a better team without Devers today,but this is something management has to do.
cdchi:
“seasons ago”
The plan was Casas was 1B of the future. No one knew, back then, he was made of glass. “should have been” readying Devers for 1B is Monday Morning QBing.
Leaders should be able to adapt on the fly, and encourage others to do the same. Devers is no leader.
You aren’t wrong but they likely tried when they signed Bregman and all Raffy kept saying was he was a 3B.
When the Red Sox signed Bregman, Devers had neither taken infield practice nor swung a bat because of his injured shoulders. He would not take batting practice until March 4th at which time he told the team he wasn’t ready to bat against live pitching and wouldn’t take an at bat in a game until March 15th.
Mookie has no problem playing outfield, 2B, and SS. Whatever the team needs.
your timeline is all wrong, they wanted to play DH, then casas got injured, they didn’t want devers playing defense at all cause he’s not good at it, their plans changed as a result of injuries, what are you talking about Joe Mauer, Bryce Harper, Kevin Youkilis, Buster Posey, Players switch position all the time
Dark – Do you honestly WANT to understand?
Then read this article: blogs.fangraphs.com/the-red-sox-are-pulling-the-wr…
There’s only three possible reasons why some people here are taking management’s side:
1) They don’t know the chain of events
2) They already hated Devers
3) They are front office suckups
I have faith it’s #1 that applies to you. Once you read that article, you should understand.
This is total BS. I don’t fit any of those 3. Devers is purely a selfish child and he doesn’t respect his own team. It’s a sign of the times I guess. I had no problem with devers before spring training, now good riddance.
Tang – What exactly about the article is BS? What part of the article I quoted is BS?
It’s all there, laid out in great detail for you to read.
Fever, we disagree on Devers. What you read is what was said for the public. We don’t know what was said privately back when the team was negotiating for Bregman until now. My guess (only a guess since we don’t know) is the public side was said because they WERE negotiating and didn’t know if Bregman was signing. A balancing act was needed and Bregman who was seeking his price played along. Imagine the aftermath if the team publicly ogled over Bregman playing third. Then he signs with the Cubs or Tigers leaving Devers feeling even worse.
No FPG, its your comment that is BS. As usual.
Your opinions are so far fetched. I swear I’ve muted fever pitch many times but he keeps coming back. The I’m right,your wrong attitude is insufferable. By the way, the actual “Fever Pitch guy” is a Yankee fan.
Fever Pitch Guy — They take management side because that’s the story they’ve been presented. Had the story been, Billionaire Red Sox owner dumps best hitter for salary relief, they’d agree. People love to spout what other people tell them to believe. Thinking for oneself isn’t part of the herd game.
The correct answer is they all screwed up.
Come on, Fever, you can’t possibly believe those are the only three possible reasons?
I don’t want to “take management’s side”, as I feel there is plenty of blame to go around. Ortiz alluded to that in his comments. But at the same time I can understand why this became a necessary move.
Might have played out differently if Devers had taken ground balls in Spring Training at 1B and 3B like they asked.
Wait – Logic matters to me. When people take the side of management despite all the facts, all the evidence that proves they did Raffy dirty …. how else can that be explained other than those three categories?
Even Breslow admitted yesterday he contributed to the chain of events by not being open and honest with Raffy.
Fever – you’ve heard it like a broken record from me – there’s a lot we will never know. And a bunch we won’t know for years.
Now, honest question – and it’s a leap of faith.
Consider for one second- just consider -that management asked devers to take 1B grounders in the spring. The same phase and timeframe devers was hint when he was defiant and adamant, and said I’m a 3B and I won’t do anything but.
Then add the puzzle piece devers didn’t play in ST contests all spring long till the very end.
Is it *possible* that *maybe* the red Sox weren’t airing dirty laundry on devers refusing to perform? And that explains his absence from ST games?
*maybe* there’s a bit more to this – sort of a pox on both your houses situation?
I’ve got my issues with the front office, and, I know for sure you do by your comments. But there’s so much we don’t know for sure, and, I really think this whole thing is the fault of both sides.
Sure, the communication could definitely have been better. And Bloom’s promise to Devers was absolutely inappropriate, not something he had any right to commit the organization to.
But they didn’t “do him dirty”. He has a full-value contract and once it was clear that he wasn’t happy with the Red Sox situation, they willingly traded him to a team where he will be happy. He didn’t actually demand a trade, but he apparently did suggest that it might be best.
And I wish him the best. The Red Sox got a good year and a half out of that deal, and a reasonable return on a full-value contract, so they came out of it okay. Devers gets his money and goes to a team where he will feel appreciated and get a fresh start. It is a step backwards in their quest for the playoffs this year, but not an insurmountable one if they pitch and play defense.
FPG, if logic mattered to you, you would use it occasionally. When are you going to start?
There is no evidence “they did Raffy dirty”.
#1 – Devers entered camp unable to play any position in the field. He was injured. Both shoulders. Remember?
#2 – Devers could not even hit in a game until March 15th, more than a month after spring training started.
#3 – They started the pursuit of Bregman and told Devers he would be playing at DH AFTER he appeared at spring training and it was apparent that Devers could not play 3B or any other position to start this season because of the injuries to his shoulders. The timeline of events matters.
#4 – PLAYERS, even star players, are not consulted about signings prior to them happening. Not even when those players would occupy the same position as that player occupied in the past. They do not have the right to veto or approve those signings. That is 100% the teams purview.
#5 – According to the UPC or Uniform Players Contract, players do not have the right to refuse to play a position the team assigns them too. It doesn’t matter what position it is. If the team told Devers to play SS or catcher because in their opinion it would make the team better able to win games, he has no choice. If a player refuses, its in the team’s rights to place that player on the Restricted list and not pay him. Look it up. Its in the CBA and you can find that on the MLBPA website.
Those are the relevant facts of the situation.
Breslow did no such thing. You are making stuff up now. Lying has consequences too FPG. Even if he had, that doesn’t mean Devers could refuse to play wherever they told him to play without consequences, nor does it mean the team did anything wrong. The responsibility for how the entire situation unfolded is on Devers for his total lack of team first attitude and his childish remarks even though he knew that his injuries would preclude him playing any position to start the season. Its 100% on Devers and no one else.
It is obvious that you have never played a team sport, even little league, or you would understand all of that.
GASox, they did ask Devers to take ground balls in spring training, both at 3B and 1B. They quickly discovered after he arrived at spring training on February 10th that he was not physically able to do so. He had injuries to both shoulders that prevented him from not only taking infield practice, but from swinging a bat in games until March 15th. That is why they signed Bregman.
Pads Fans,
“They started the pursuit of Bregman and told Devers he would be playing at DH AFTER he appeared at spring training…”
The chronology is wrong. The Sox signed Bregman 2/15, 2 days before position players reported to ST. There was endless speculation for weeks about who would play where. Devers made his statement about being a third baseman on 3/13. So clearly no one told him that he’d be moved to DH for almost a month after Bregman signed. It wasn’t until March 27th that the Sox announced that Bregman would play 3B, and Devers would DH.
FPG
Circumstances change. Needs change. Sox sign Bregman,clearly an upgrade defensively at 3rd. Should they have not pursued him? A gold glove performer at a premium position. I don’t think management “did him dirty”, Management seen a way to improve the team. Should they have discussed signing Bregman with Devers beforehand. I don’t think mgtmt thought Devers would have the reaction he had . Shortsighted, maybe. but they saw an opportunity to improve the team. You must agree this is a better team with Bregman. Does it come down to would you rather have Bregman or Devers playing 3rd. If they don’t sign Bregman, Devers is still playing 3rd for the Sox. I really enjoyed watching Devers since he played for Greenville,but his refusal to be a team player and change with the circumstances ( losing #3 & 4 hitter) (1stbase & 3rdbase)got him traded.
If Devers were still playing 3B, and Bregman went back to Houston, the Red Sox wouldn’t even be in contention at this point. Bregman was a huge add for the team.
The most telling report I’ve read was that Devers considered Kristian Campbell offering to learn first as a slight towards him. Just think about the mentality behind that. He’s not the victim.
Sean – Is there an actual reputable source, or just more anonymous Raffy bashing from unnamed sources?
Asking for a friend ;O)
And keep in mind the Bregman/Cora/Carrabis connection.
This references it:
x.com/BOSSportsGordo/status/1934744010171797658
Dunno how reputable Joon Lee is. I can’t find the OP.
Found the original article. A lot of stuff there, not terribly complementary for anybody involved (which is what you would expect from a FUBAR situation like this).
sports.yahoo.com/mlb/article/inside-the-absolute-s…
Multiple unnamed sources. Take it for what it’s worth. Would be an odd thing to make up. And it tracks.
sports.yahoo.com/mlb/article/inside-the-absolute-s…
He made the situation awkward especially when he’s never been a good fielding 3rd baseman to begin with.
Jays and Vlad were in similar position.
Jays informed Vlad in camp he was moving to 1B/dh, gave him some time to acclimate himself to the position, and traded their other 1B.
I’m not sticking up for Devers in any way, him sulking and being an issue after is 100% on him, but Red Sox could have avoided this situation or at the very least got a lot more out of the asset had they not sold at an issue point
Vlad was healthy coming into camp. Devers could not even hit in game situations until mid-March. Casas was healthy and expected to hold down 1B. Devers was expected to be the DH because not only was he the worst 3B in baseball defensively when healthy, he came into camp not physically able play 3B or any other position. It’s WHY they signed Bregman. Are you really that stupid? Yes, you do keep sucking up to Devers.
You’re so emotional man, my goodness go touch some grass.
I can’t wait for them to lose Bregman and then have no 3b next year and no FA is going to come close to thinking about going to Boston to play for Breslow. Don’t waste all your tears on me my man, you’re going to need them
such a strange take. devers was reportedly upset with KC for offering to take grounders at 1b after devers told the fo to “do their job and acquire a 1b”. idc how big a star someone is, their absolute first priority should be to help your team win. if you’re not willing to do whatever it takes to help your team win you’re letting everyone in that clubhouse down. everybody on the team has an obligation to put the team first and pull together with the rest of your teammates and work towards the same goal. Anything less makes you a poor teammate and whether anybody would say so publicly, I guarantee his teammates were disappointed in devers and felt betrayed
wow. If what you say stp is accurate, what an indictment of Devers’ character. wow
Why in the hell he would agree to play anywhere outside of 3B, if he decided to stay in Boston after receiving specific guarantees from the club? He didn’t needed that extension back in 2023, but Red Sox needed it desperately. Devers could get even better contact as a free agent, but he did his club a favor. And then, 2 years later club decided to take their guarantees back and started mumbling about responsibilities and sacrifices. Because what? Because they have a new front office boss?
Devers acted absolutely right. He behaved like any self-respecting, highly qualified worker who knows his own worth, knows that he is in demand, who has self-esteem, pride and a pair of steel balls between his legs to make his idiot boss take him into account and respect his opinion.
Darth – Very well said, thank you!!!
And people either “forget” or simply don’t know, Raffy played in a lot of pain last year as the shoulder injury caused his performance to drop …. but rather than call it a season and keep his BA and OPS near the top, he continued to play while injured because his team needed him.
To then be disrespected the way he was, to be called “selfish” after what he did last season, it’s absolutely horrific …. but par for the course with this Red Sox front office and manager.
Oh please. “Disrespected”. Ask his teammates about disrespect by not being a professional and doing what is asked for his team. Maybe he should sit down and ask Bryce Harper about playing hurt yet showing up and learning to play a new position than be willing to move back to the outfield if the Phillies would get another 1st baseman.
andy – Sorry but that’s incredibly ignorant and downright comical.
If you followed the Red Sox and Devers at all, you’d know he played hurt last year while his numbers dropped ….. TO HELP THE TEAM.
All his teammates had great respect for him doing that as long as he could, rather than calling it a season in June.
Ignorant and comical?
You’re the one bringing up last year. Good on him. How about this year? Do the same for your team. Show up. Be the leader and the face of the franchise that you’re paid to be; not a self centered guy who says “it’s my position”. By the way, a position you’ve been one of the worst in the majors at for years
andy – I’ve been criticizing the team for YEARS for not insisting he learn first base.
Whose fault is it that all those years Raffy was never forced to learn any position other than 3B?
Hint: Not Raffy’s fault.
Why do you always give a free pass to management for all their bad decisions and unethical behavior?
I’m not quite sure where you see in any of my comments where I gave management a “free pass”. They have some blood on their hands no doubt. It’s just this whole making Devers out to be a victim thing is a lame defense of a guy who wasn’t mature enough to handle things internally that the owner had to go out and cool his jets.
And obviously you can’t just start to play first base in the middle of the season. It takes time. But the flat out refusal and his “it’s my position” attitude and approach? Sorry bro. No sympathy
Fever, just maybe Raffy was asked last year when Casas had his rib injury and he said no then. Who knows? My point is he clearly was a selfish baby this year who didn’t get his way, pouted at times and now is 3,000 miles away. I’ll always appreciate his bat but sports is not about yesterday and today I say good riddance as long as ownership reinvests his money in the team instead of using it on Liverpool.
dewey – Lets hope they spend it and wisely! They will save some for Mayer and Roman extensions hopefully, if Mayer can stay healthy with his chronic back issues.
you sir, are an idiot Darth!
muted
This entire thing is on both management and Devers equally. Management handled the entire thing terribly – bad communication, false promises, flip flopping and so on – and Devers put himself before the team and should have been willing to do whatever the team needed to give them the best chance to win. It doesn’t have to be a black and white, either-or situation. There is plenty of blame to go around for the entire snafu.
Highly qualified worker? You mean one of the worst defenders at his position for years? Stop
he received guarantees from Chaim, not brewslow. your entire point is moot.
goat – Try reading, it’s a good thing.
“A lot of people, not just Bloom, suggested Devers would be a long-term fixture at third base.” Cora was Boston’s manager at the time. He was one of those people. In fact, he made that same argument himself while fending off the position-switching rumors during the Winter Meetings. He told reporters, “When you sign a contract like that, he signed as a third baseman and he wants to be a third baseman, right?” The team made Devers a promise and the team broke it. “
Why wouldn’t he? is the better question.his contract is to play baseball..and to our knowledge does not specify a position..and to your point about his stance the only thing that protects him from being fired like a normal employee was his contract and the red sox unwillingness to risk no return by putting him on the restricted list for breach of contract.
Because the GM who gave him those guarantees was fired. This isn’t complicated.
Darth – if the Red Sox didn’t sign Devers to the extension, a lot of fans probably (yeah speculation, whatever) would have been done with the team then. More and more evidence of them cheaping out. I don’t care what they do a long as they win, and that hasn’t happened a whole lot recently.
Devers also was one who constantly was asking for the FO to improve the team. Around the trade deadline every year there seemed to be an article about him saying hey we need some help, they know what we need, go get it. And then they reward teams in the playoff hunt by trading the starting catcher (yes, Abreu is a fine player, but they needed to do more in either direction that deadline) for prospects, needing SP help and trading for the oft injured Paxton that already burned them once, and the list goes on and on and on.
My personal views on the situation would be completely different, even with the whole committment to playing 3B for a long time, if they were just upfront in the beginning.
When they signed Bregman, or even just before so he gets a heads up, Breslow should have spoken to Devers. “Hey, we have an opportunity to add a great RHB and improve the infield defense. It’s Bregman and he will be the 3B going forward. We want you to mainly focus on DH, but still take reps in the field because we will need you to step in occasionally, or if there’s an injury.”
Simple as that.
Now do I think that Devers should have just done it for the good of the team? Sure in a vacuum. But when you combine the off-season stuff this year, combine with the poor showing from the FO since 2019, and it’s easy to see why Devers was frustrated. They don’t have a plan.
Having Devers as the full-time DH was a dumb idea, as I said since it started, because of how inflexible it makes the roster. Even if he played the field once a week, that frees up some ABs for the young guys.
@Darth He did not receive any guarantees as far as position. If it is not stipulated in players contract or MLBPA contract it is not guaranteed.
If he was so concerned he could ve worked on his glove any or all of the past offsesons.
Players don’t get guarantees that they will play a certain position. Period.
Players don’t get to choose where they play. That is up to the team.
Players don’t get to refuse to play where the team tells them to play. If they do they are in violation of their contract and can be placed on the Restricted List. They don’t get paid while on the Restricted List.
Signing a $315 million deal is not doing the team a favor. As his agent said at the time, they got what they felt was the best possible deal. Other executives had been expressing for several years before the signing that Devers was destined for DH. If you think a DH could have gotten more than $31 million AAV then I have to question your knowledge of baseball.
When Devers got to spring training he was hurt and unable to play any position including 3B because of two injured shoulders. Really stupid to go public saying you won’t play anywhere other than 3B when you can’t play 3B at all. At that point he could not even HIT yet. The first time he took batting practice was March 4th and the 1st time he hit in a game was March 15th. At that time he was still unable to take infield practice.
That he came into camp unable to play in the field was why the Red Sox signed Bregman.
Teams don’t talk to players before signing players, especially better players. Yes, Bregman is a better player.
Devers acted like a child and was 100% and completely in the wrong. You obviously never played a team sport and have no clue what being a winner entails. Neither does Devers.
I hope Devers homers all 3 games
Devers didn’t want to move from 3rd but the a red Sox forced him to DH. Told him, per Devers, to put away his glove. It clearly messed with his head going 0-19 with 15ks to start the year.
Devers was in a good place DHing, which isn’t as easy as people think, Casas got hurt and the Red Sox told Devers to take reps at first base. A position he’s never played.
I don’t blame Devers, if he was so bad with the glove then why are you telling him to play third? Why are they not telling one of their younger players to take reps at first base rather Devers?
A relationship goes both ways, Brestow saying Devers should do what’s best for the team but the team should also do what’s best for Devers, especially since they signed him for 8 years.
Red Sox fans are sure ignorant of the facts. Devers could not even BAT until March 15th let alone play any position on the field because of injuries to both shoulders.
Devers or any other player doesn’t have a choice in where he plays, that is the team’s decision. That Devers was such a poor teammate that he put himself over the team’s ability to win more games says it all. MANY players have moved to a position they have never played before because it would help their team win more games. Devers acted like a selfish child in refusing. If you don’t blame him, what does that say about you?
And if he ends up willing to play first base for the Giants, it makes him look more selfish and childish. As my grandfather said, “You can’t put a Band-Aid on cancer. You have to remove it.”
We’ll never know for sure, but what a lot of people are overlooking about Positiongate (i know, i know, im kidding) from the last half year is that we might finally have our answer as to why Boston kept Devers at 3B for so long.
So many fans have assumed that it was the team electing to keep him there, not even trying to ready him to play at 1B or DH. Even though most everyone assumed it would be inevitable that he would move, sooner rather than later.
What if he’s been recalcitrant about moving off 3B all along? What if the franchise has quietly broached the change at times and found the feelers so rebuffed that they knew it would have to be approached with kid gloves – and even kid gloves failed? This could have been fate, a fate set by the player (which is his right, not saying it isn’t…but then there never was going to be a “good” way to handle this).
There’s one thing I don’t like seeing come out of the various devers stories and the debates that have festered over the last few months leading up to this:
I see more and more.name calling, personal insults, and pronouncements ‘ok, blocked..’ of similar…
We’re all baseball fans. Many in these threads Red Sox supporters. Take a step back and remember it’s all one fan base, the teams going to roll on, and, the same people you’re getting mad at today, are the ones you’re going to be rooting with through the good and bad.
I don’t find the front office blameless. And, I do not support devers actions.
But I *do* think there’s a lot we don’t know, for several reasons: one, we won’t know all the details or timelines, ever, until maybe some book comes out 10 years from now we may know more. Be sure, we will get Cora writing a book for attention and money when he leaves the dugout; two, what we do know from supposed quotes from devers, out of his translater much of the time, was full of qualifiers ‘they basically told me’ (hint, that’s proof of a paraphrase coming, or, what his take away was); three, any message from the front office then went to a translator, who’d paraphrase, to devers who got an impression from it, then he responded, through an interpreter who translated and who’d again paraphrase, to the front office to take an impression from.
Look at that chain of communication. Lots of opportunity for sides to think something that’s a bit off from what the other side thought first.
GaSox – I haven’t seen the namecalling, personal insults or blocking threats ….. it’s exactly why I occasionally use the mute button, it really does work!!!
I totally agree with you, people need to let it go. The Red Sox have moved on, the players have moved on, Raffy has moved on …. heck, I moved on in spring training when I started saying a trade would be best and would likely happen this year.
Let’s talk about 6 in a row! Just as I had said, Roman’s promotion (and to a lesser degree, Marcelo’s) has provided a nice spark. And the pitchers have been phenomenal. To shut down guys like Judge, Raleigh, Crawford …. very impressive.
I still think they will have a tough time making the playoffs, but every team has their win streaks and I’m really enjoying this one.
Roman hitting his first homerun yesterday of all days, and in the same park that Raffy hit his first ….. very, very cool.
Can’t wait for tonight!
You know, I’m excited for a post devers future. It really helps the young kids play more regularly, instead of Anthony and Casas sitting so much since they’ve been called up. That’s a very good thing.
Yoshida is still a fly in the ointment. I’m hoping they make things work through this season when we know if bregman stays on a reworked contract or goes.
Agreed, GA, I look forward to Anthony, Campbell, and Mayer getting regular reps for the rest of the year. To me that is more important than whether or not they win the third wild card berth.
They still need further moves to clear up the logjam. Yoshida hopefully will show he is healthy and hit, and that will make it easier to move him in the off-season. Possible that they will end up trading Duran or Abreu as well – because four good starting OFs is an excess of riches.
GaSox – I know you meant Mayer, not Casas ;O)
But again, do you really want Duran/Rafaela/Abreu/Anthony all DH’ing 25% of the time?
That’s one out of every four games.
Anthony needs to start in the outfield every day.
Duran sure as hell doesn’t want to DH that much.
Abreu is already getting benched many times vs LHP
Really if the DH isn’t gonna be Yoshida, it should be Campbell ….. but then how would he improve his defense at 2B?
The DH — for now — should be Yoshida and Refsnyder.
Trade Abreu. Play Duran, Rafaela, Anthony every day.
There are other possible resolutions as well, but that would be my preference. I believe Abreu has a lower ceiling than the others, and if you look at their L/R splits he isn’t really any better than Yoshida with the bat. (The difference is that he is younger, cheaper, and a vastly better defender. That gives Abreu trade value but it doesn’t make him a superior DH.)
They would then need to look hard for a big bat in the off-season.
Wait – I like your suggestion of Yoshida/Ref splitting DH duties based on L/R pitchers.
Duran has been having a rough year. I know people want him gone because he’s old and has bad hair, but I’d like to keep him and also Abreu. Choosing between the two is like choosing between my kids. LOL
Fever, you’re right of course… what the brain thinks and fingers type… heck, the brain has enough troubles of its own these days.
But, sure, I’m fine with one of duran/rafaela/abreu/Anthony in the DH slot.
Anthony’s calling is his bat, not plus-plus defense. He’s not a bad defender, but he’s not that platinum glove type either. Keep them all fresh. And minor injuries getting banged up happen every year. Let’s not kid ourselves about these guys being the next ‘iron man’ of baseball.
Besides, you could even toss some of the other IF assets to shore up dh duty as well if you’re playing matchups.
I know we had the debate before, but, you’re probably asking a guy to spend 20 to 30 days in the dh slot by the time injuries are accounted for. I mean look right now, we just had Anthony come up because of a couple weeks injury to an Ofer.
Fever, I know what you mean. I love all four of Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, and Anthony. And Refsnyder is HUGE in a platoon role. I don’t think you can keep them all, though. Just 120 starts apiece?
Wait, big difference between starts in the field, and, starts overall where the bat is in the lineup.
Not sure I understand, GA? Obviously you want Devers’ bat in the lineup as often as possible, but I don’t think playing 1B would have prevented that. Would it?
Wait – victims of the way the new threading of comments happens here..
My comment about starts in the field vs lineup ABs was directed to your 120 starts a piece for the 4 OFers… but, the way the software shuffles things now, as opposed to the old way… sounds like it created ambiguity
GaSox – I can relate! Often my brain is on auto-pilot, my brain’s air traffic controllers called in sick, and my brain’s co-pilot is Ted Striker.
I’m not one to make plans around expected injuries, especially when you consider Duran and Rafaela haven’t been injured at all these past two seasons.
But honestly I don’t put too much thought into lineups because God knows what Cora will end up doing anyway.
I do feel strongly about Duran leading off every day unless his OPS gets below .650 or so, but I don’t anticipate that happening.
I get that it is difficult to pick up 1B mid-season, but by one report they asked Devers to take ground balls at both 1B and 3B in the Spring. That never happened. (I tend to believe this because it is an obvious move that everybody expected.) So it is a bit disingenuous for Devers to point fingers when the team needed him to step in at 1B mid-season.
Breslow isn’t Bloom. Bloom loaded up on DH types, and promised the defensively-inept Devers that he could stay at 3B until he got tired of it. Under Bloom the Red Sox were regularly one of the worst defensive clubs in the majors.
They weren’t ever going to be competitive like that. You improve defense by sliding guys down the defensive spectrum, and looking for quality defenders who can fill in at the premium positions. Third base is fairly high up the defensive spectrum – and the move to 1B or DH was a necessary one.
It is a shame that Devers couldn’t wrap his mind around all of that. Ortiz referenced “ego” in his comments. Management could perhaps have communicated better (I don’t believe Cora did a great job there), but regardless of whatever promises Bloom made, they needed to find a good defensive 3B and they needed Devers to move to 1B/DH. Moreover, Devers at DH was blocking both Yoshida and the top prospect in baseball. So while they may have thought that would work out okay, the injury to Casas changed things. “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”
Short term, this is a step backwards. Longer term, they just recovered $250M to work with that can be invested in pitching and athleticism, the future of the game and the direction that Breslow is trying to take the team. Devers is a really good hitter, the kind you work to accommodate, but he doesn’t really fit that direction.
They might still make the playoffs. Much easier to mix-and-match at DH than it is elsewhere on the diamond, and they have some talented part-time players on the roster. Plus Yoshida coming back. Plus the young Anthony. Whether they do or don’t depends on their pitching and their ability to execute clean defense and clean baserunning.
Wait – Just curious, where did you hear that report? Because it totally contradicts everything that was reported during ST including direct quotes from Cora and Breslow.
Raffy has taken ground balls at 3B before regular season games, he’s also taken them at shortstop. He wanted to play the field, there is no chance he’d refuse to take 3B reps during practice …. that’s absolutely absurd. They wanted him to focus 100% on hitting, Cora repeatedly confirmed that.
There’s gonna be lots of “reports” as part of the usual smear campaign that always occurs when a popular player is forced out of town. Heck they did the same thing to Dombrowski and Bloom when they both left.
Did you watch the Zoom press conference yesterday? Kennedy is looking creepier and creepier every day. Even when he talked about the “difficult decision” to trade Raffy, he had a huge smirk on his face and was chuckling. I can see why the recent player poll revealed the Red Sox as one of the most disliked big market teams in MLB.
I don’t expect either Cora or Breslow to tell me the full story. As long as Devers is on the team, they are going to shade their comments to protect him. It would be wrong if they were to do otherwise.
This article includes the claim that they asked him to take ground balls at 1B during Spring Training. I’m pretty sure I read it somewhere else, but not sure where:
sports.yahoo.com/article/giants-concerning-admissi…
Kennedy is a weasel, I don’t need to see his ugly mug on the press conference.
Plenty of blame to go around, and of course we never know the full story. Management was unable to get Devers on the same page for an obvious move to help the team win. Part of that was Devers not agreeing on the need, but part of that was poor communication.
But Devers comes out of this fine, and the Red Sox may do better than you think. They really backed themselves into a corner with the Yoshida signing (sorry, I know you like him). You can’t carry two DH on the roster.
I don’t know, but most younger players want to play somewhere in the field even if not their preferred position. Granted he’ll be a below average fielder no matter where he plays and will be locked in as a dh by his early 30″s. I am surprised the Sox got as much as they did for him in return.
WaitTil2026, Devers had shoulder issues that delayed his ST debut. That could be part of the reason why he declined to take reps at 1B.
Plus ST was after the Sox signed Bregman, and left Devers hanging on their decision about their respective positions. So the resentment was already being felt by Devers when ST began. Not saying Devers was correct in his refusals, but it explains them. He wasn’t going to do the Sox any favors since he felt like they hadn’t done any for him.
But I agree the Sox did fine. They got a couple guys that could be major contributors down the road.
Jean, his injuries and inability to even bat in a game until Mid March was why the team went after Bregman. Devers couldn’t play 3B. He couldn’t play 1B. He arrived at spring training on February 10th, early, and the team discovered that he could not physically do it. He could not have opened the season at any position including 3B.
“his injuries and inability to even bat in a game until Mid March was why the team went after Bregman.”
You don’t know that. Bregman was signed before ST started. They may have been pursuing Bregman long before the Devers’ injury. They certainly had enough motivation to do so given Devers defensive liabilities.
The Cubs and Tigers were both also pursuing Bregman. It’s highly doubtful that the Sox sign Bregman before the start of ST because they knew Devers was injured, with the Cubs and Tigers just sitting on their hands.
A salary dump to get under the luxury tax. Plus someone to blame for a team that has not hit their expectations. They sure did not get much for Betts, Boegarts and Devers. I think I would have waited til closer to the deadline and maybe got a better offer. But the Red Sox save more money by making the deal now.
They got jobbed on Betts. They chose not to give up on the season and allowed Bogaerts to reach free agency. The draft pick they received turned into Kristian Campbell, but that was luck as much as anything else. Once a player gets signed to a full value deal like Devers, they don’t have much trade value remaining. The Red Sox are lucky that they didn’t have to eat half the contract.
Wait – Not a chance they’d have to eat any of his contract.
A future HOF’er in his peak prime at 28 years old who has elevated his game even more with incredible plate discipline.
Look at how much more Vlad is getting, and he’s getting paid into his 40’s.
The biggest appeal with Raffy’s contract is that it expires at Age 36, there won’t be any decline years for him. And I am fairly certain other teams would try him at first base where he would do quite well and increase his value even more.
Just think if they had waited until the trade deadline or offseason, there would have been even more offers to take on the entire contract. But then they’d be over the CBT threshold if they waited.
Devers isn’t even remotely a HOFer.
Vlad owns a 1B glove. That alone is worth $5M/year on the deal. If Devers is willing to play 1B for the Giants, then he is more valuable to them than he was to the Red Sox.
Decline years begin in their early 30s. If you look at the projections (I could make my own guesstimates but they wouldn’t be any better), the last three years of the deal are expected to be weak. Pretty typical for long-term contracts these days.
Likely that they’ll end up over the CBT regardless. Unless they fold at the trade deadline and send guys like Buehler and Chapman away.
Devers is most of the way through his prime and has a total of THREE black-ink entries on his resume. The 54 doubles in 2019, the 359 total bases in 2019, and the 56 walks so far this year. (The HOF monitor cites a fourth, but I can’t find it. Leading the league in errors at your position repeatedly doesn’t count.)
Your average HOFer collects 27 “black ink” entries. Devers would need to elevate his career over the next five years to come anywhere close to that. Never finished top 10 in MVP voting. HOF monitor gives him 46 points, where 100 is a likely HOFer. Career WAR is about a third of what would be required, peak WAR is about half of what would be required. WAR/162 of just 70% of the average HOFer, despite not yet hitting his decline years. Maybe he surprises me, but I would be VERY surprised if Devers were to make the HOF.
We’ve seen this before. Every time a halfway decent player leaves Boston, there are those who elevate him to godhood. Same when Bogaerts signed.with the Padres. He’s “only” 29, has another seven or eight great years remaining. A future HOF shortstop. Yada yada yada… That’s not happening either, of course. He’s a good player, but hit the skids at age 31 like most players do. It would take a miracle for Bogaerts to turn that into a HOF career at this point – hitting .232/.310/.317.
Fever, while CBT could be a consideration if they went after cease, or king, or others for the rotation, I don’t think it was the primary or even secondary goal here. It’s a bonus.
Devers turned himself into a problem for the clubhouse and organization. Full stop. Regardless of how you feel management did him dirty, he crossed many lines with his public defiance. Add in less than 100% effort lately, and, all the behind the scenes stuff we don’t even know about – from both sides – you can’t have the kids seeing someone get away with that type of insubordination.
It was a costly series of actions by all sides, but, end of the day, a message was sent – whether you agree with it or not – that behavior like devers acted up and acted out isn’t acceptable to the front office.
Not sure what you are talking about. The Red Sox O/U on opening day was 81.5 wins. They are over that pace today.
Thanks for recounting those details, Pads.
To me it all comes down to the in-season injury to Casas. Suddenly they needed a starting 1B. That could be Devers, with Yoshida or Anthony taking the PT at DH (or rotating OFs through DH). Or it could be Toro/Gonzalez. That latter has worked out better than we had any right to hope, but even so I’m not sure it is a workable long-term solution. Devers at 1B would have been better.
They shouldn’t have even had to ask him. He should have observed the need and volunteered. Yet his response to being asked was to whine publicly about how they might next want him to play the outfield. The team didn’t put him on the restricted list, but they went with their #2 option for a month because Devers cared more about his ego than about doing what is best for the team.
To me – the trade doesnt come down to: 1. Players received in return or 2. Trading a moody player. But 3. How/who will they acquire for $30m salary/year this trade deadline or next winter?
Exactly. If they spend that salary room poorly, or fail to spend it, then the trade is a bust. If they find the right player or pitcher to complement the roster, they’ll be better off than they were with Devers. Devers is a really good hitter, but not a great fit for the team needs at this time.
Wait – Raffy would have been a great fit at first base, but I know you prefer Toro/Romy.
Devers would have been a great fit at first base, but he declined the opportunity. Apparently he first declined the chance to learn the position in Spring Training, and then later declined to learn it mid-season.
Given that Devers refused to play 1B for the Red Sox, he wasn’t an option. Toro/Romy works as well as any of their other options. No worse than a Dom Smith.
Wait – Where did you hear he declined in ST? That goes against everything reported and all the direct quotes from Cora/Breslow.
Even when Raffy was blindsided by losing 3B, not once was first base mentioned.
I shared one link on that earlier, Fever. I don’t think it was the link I originally saw, though. I’ve read a ton of takes on the situation over the last few days.
I don’t know who actually said what, and I don’t necessarily believe everything I read. But going into the season I *assumed* that Devers would back up both 1B and 3B, as that would have been logical. The whole, “throw away the glove” bit was just weird… I’m pretty certain we don’t have the full backstory there.
Devers didn’t refuse to learn 1B in spring training. He was physically unable to practice at any position on the field to start spring training and would not have been able to play any position to start the season other than DH due to injuries to both shoulders. He didn’t even take live batting practice until March 4th, nearly a month after he arrived at spring training, and didn’t hit in a game until March 15th because of those injuries to his shoulders.
Right now Toro and Gonzales are hitting nearly as well as Devers while playing passable defense at 1B. Something Devers could not have done.
I get it too, but I also understand that Devers didn’t want to hurt his stats and extension possibly his team by playing a position he has never played in at the pro level.
Where did you see that Boston fans are mad? I’m sure some are. Some may be glad to be rid of Mr. Me-Me-Me. I’m also sure most understand. There will be more room in the budget to add players now. Lets let things play out. I’m curious if Devers will be satisfied being in the same situation with the Giants, being a DH only.
At his intro devers says those are the men in charge, I’ll do what I’m told and play where they say play.
So, maybe he finally learned something in all this?
“It’s the willingness to step up and sacrifice at times of need and essentially do whatever is necessary to help the team win,” Tomorrow I will sacrifice a chicken because it is $10 Tuesday at KFC. I’m stepping up because I need chicken.
Congrats
Steve – Best part of that show was the dancing baby!
Lol
Why would ally mcneal and Ashton Kutcher need a pepperoni pizza?
I really love Buehlers comment at the end. Well said.
what did Bueheler say?
coll: Last paragraph.
Buehler didn’t speak.
I get it. The comment he was quoted as saying in the article above.
Otto – You know what I really love?
The utter crap that is this: “The Sox feared that Devers’ frustrations with the position changes would send a poor message to their younger players ”
WHAT kind of message do the Red Sox think has already been sent to the younger players who undoubtedly are aware of how the Sox did Devers dirty, just like they’ve done to so many other Red Sox icons.
From Fangraphs ….
“When asked during the Winter Meetings about rumors that Devers might be moved off third, manager Alex Cora said, “I don’t know where that comes from. I haven’t talked to Raffy about that. I have never talked to his agent about that. People talk about his defense. Actually, I thought last year, he did an outstanding job, especially to his left…. And I guarantee you we haven’t had those conversations.” Clearly, the last sentence was true, but there’s no universe in which Cora was unaware of how much Devers’ defense hurt the team last season. Maybe his willingness to say something so obviously untrue should have been a sign.
Cora doubled down on those comments just a few weeks later. “Rafael Devers is our third baseman,” he told NESN. “I always envisioned Alex as a Gold Glover second baseman.” Even when Bregman signed, the Red Sox indicated that he would play second base, as a source told ESPN’s Jeff Passan on the day the news of the deal broke. Then all hell broke loose. Two days after Bregman agreed to his three-year, $120 million contract, with opt outs after either of the first two seasons, Cora and chief baseball officer Craig Breslow did exactly what they’d been saying for months that they wouldn’t do. They asked Devers to move to designated hitter.”
NO EXCUSE FOR TREATING THE FACE OF THE FRANCHISE, A GENERATIONAL HITTER, LIKE THIS.
lol face of the franchise
Congrats on having an opinion. You’re entitled to one. You just happen to be wrong.
THERE IS ALSO NO EXCUSE NOT TO SWALOW YOUR EGO AND DO WHATS BEST FOR THE TEAM!!! THE SORT OF THING THAT A SUPPOSED FACE OF A FRANCHISE WOULD DO
I’ve never seen fever feel so strongly about baseball, Red Sox can make me red and angry too
Really? Fever always needs something to bash about the Red Sox. He always gets likes from his cronies too
Fever, Devers wasn’t a “generarional” hitter. He was an elite bat, but this isn’t Manny Ramirez we’re talking about.
Long – I agree, there’s no sign Raffy is using PED’s.
The term has been used many times by many people to describe him. There’s no concrete definition, but you can’t deny he’s on track for 3,000 hits and 500 homeruns which obviously makes him a HOF player.
Let’s put it this way, he didn’t get the $300M for his defense or baserunning, obviously.
@FPG
Devers got the money because they were unable to sign Betts. It was partly a PR move.
The message they sent is that the team comes first.
Seems like a lot of mgmt fan boys buying the mgmt PR here. Except for Fever. Not sure who’s right but bravo to Fever for being a free thinker
It is definitely good to hear arguments from both sides. Civil discourse is always a good thing. There is a very fundamental difference of opinion on this particular subject and it is interesting seeing both sides but also knowing no ones mind is probably going to be changed.
If you agree with Fever, on anything, you need a long look in the mirror.
As Manager of the team, did you expect him to bash one of his players publicly? Did you expect him to tell Devers he would not be playing third BEFORE they acquired a replacement? Regardless of what is said to the press, we will never be sure of what is said behind closed doors, unless all sides involved agree in their versions.
Roman Anthony, Marcelo Mayer, and Kristian Campbell will be traded or enter free agency someday.
Listen to the press conference. Partially this trade was made to give them more PA.
OF COURSE they will enter free agency someday. Most good players do.
Anthony will get locked up, Mayer will be pretty good but then turn into bad version Bo Bichette and get traded, and Campbell will stay (he’s already extended)
Roman Anthony locked up why, for loitering? Bigamy? Passing bad checks? Sacking Constantinople?
As did some dude named Aaron Judge. Now stop embarrassing your felloe Yankee fans.
He will contract herpes and keep it a secret to the grave.
Well sure, eventually. In 109 years or so. The Cubs will also win a World Series someday.
Team first isn’t a difficult concept. Only selfishness gets in the way. Circumstances change, adjust to help the team.
Was the team keeping a star prospect in the minors when the team could have used his help, only to control him longer, putting the team first?
Fair question, but yeah gaining extra control is putting the team first—team first even above winning.
Except, Dusty, you have jack squat proof that Anthony was kept in the minors for control, and there is an equally valid and reasonable alternative explanation for him being kept there (roster jam), which makes your comment Garbage with a capital G. I’m not saying they definitely didnt do that, but it’s fraudulent to present what might be the case as what is the case, period.
Just so we’re clear, my comment is garbage but your reasoning that he was being blocked by Wilyer Abreu is a likely scenario?
Got it.
it is absolutely putting the team first. A front office needs to consider the long term, not just the short term.
Yes in the long run. Added cost control helps them stay competitive longer.
It really is this simple. The front office handled things poorly and Cora is a horrible manager who botched this more, but it’s as simple as he was asked to do something to help his teammates that was reasonable and he flipped in the public eye. He can stew and be mad all he wants in private, but devers is the bad guy and has himself to blame.
Okay, so how does that help Red Sox fans get over this? Unless I’m missing something, it sounds like demonize Raffy and live with everything else.
It makes total sense for Red Sox fans to be upset about this, but I wonder if this is maybe more about still being upset about them trading Mookie away amongst other things?
They’ve created this situation and have little goodwill with their fans, but if this trade is viewed in isolation it is easier to digest.
Okay, so in isolation, they traded away their best hitter for salary relief and unproven/broken pieces after souring a nine year relationship. The leadership saw they are better without him when they can’t even say it with enthusiasm. How is that easier to digest?
Because in isolation they got out of a longterm relationship that spiraling down the drain. There are aspects of unloading Devers that do actually make sense.
Most returns for stars in MLB are unproven. If you can’t see any fault on Devers’ end then you’ll never be accepting of the trade.
Oh I get that Devers punted an own goal for the Red Sox. I think his stance was principled in the face of what I saw happening to him. It wasn’t a wise decision with how much corporatized MLB and sports in general have become to speak out. He crossed a line just like Winston Smith did.
But if I had to weigh who did the deeds, the Red Sox reaction and the trade are much heavier than Devers public comments. Actions speak louder than words. Devers spoke and Red Sox went to action.
I don’t see the principle in Devers’ stance. Boston clearly mismanaged it but I have a hard time seeing his stance as anything other than a me-first attitude.
You can make the argument that Boston doesn’t deserve a team-first attitude from its players because of their moves over the last decade but how could a player making sacrifices for the team—especially when the player has already secured a longterm contract—be a bad thing?
People are individuals first. Devers was caught by the Red Sox power play. Call me old fashion but I’m fancy the underdog. Henry bullying Devers to fall in line is just not a story line that will make me go for Goliath. So Devers being honest and then sticking up for himself the second time around despite the ramifications showed backbone, and players like that are worthy of support.
As for team first, I’m not a child so that stuff really doesn’t matter. I know it’s a business so the team first thing in a business decision is nonstarter.
Team first is overused by managers to guilt people into doing things they don’t have to so the managers can fix their mistake all the time. It’s this leverage in power dynamics used to blackmail subordinates.
True sacrifice for the team is about playing your hardest and doing the little things for your teammates to help unite and make the sum larger than the whole. Devers to DH or 1B was never truly about team first. It was just a convenient tool to turn fans on him.
And the big money, long contract excuse is just a fallacy. The Red Sox owe him that. They want him to do more work because they are cheap. I’m not surprised this deal was a dump in that regard. Especially since Henry is a cheapskate.
Yeah we just fundamentally disagree and that’s okay. Condolences to you for losing a player you really like.
Cleveland, your stance is ridiculous. Devers has been a badly negative value fielder at 3B all his career, and a move to 1B or DH was viewed as inevitable (and necessary). Boston actually got mocked by some for “waiting” to do it (“what are they waiting for”). Heck, for all we know, they “waited” because Devers made it clear he wouldn’t like it, and they were hoping he would come around in due time.
Guys move across the corner or to DH all the time, and rarely with as good reason as Devers. What we know for sure is that he responded poorly to the idea this offseason, and then when the obvious way to help the team was to try out 1B he was outright recalcitrant.
The dude is a great hitter and I don’t think a bad guy, but there is no reason for you to spin doctor to the extent you just did for him.
I’m not upset. That’s a bad contract and he has a bad attitude. Later.
Because their best hitter was an overpaid DH with a bad attitude.
“And the big money, long contract excuse is just a fallacy.”\
It’s the opposite of a fallacy. It’s a bad contract for a dh. with a bad vibe.
You are an extremely open and reasonable person. Keep it up!
GhostofThomasHamilton
It’s the opposite of a fallacy. It’s a bad contract for a dh.
===========================
Very poor logic. Almost by definition, it was a good contract. SF is not giving up Harrison and last year’s #1 unless they valued the contract.
Longinus — The nuance lost when you mash it together that way is relevant no matter if you’re ignoring it. I agree there needed to be a move to 1B eventually, it is pretty standard as you point out. But that isn’t the whole story. Zooming in it plays very differently.
First, as you mentioned, the Red Sox likely knew this was Devers bottom line. It’s pretty standard for most stars, their position is part of them. Ego and identity. It lessens as players become veterans but not 28 year old guys.
It should be safe to say the Red Sox knew this was taboo and what would happen if they poked it. So why did they? Your argument is Devers was always going to be moved to 1B is a possible reason. The team first sacrifice for the team argument is another.
As you know, Devers didn’t take it lightly and the media coverage lambasted him for not putting the team first. He caved and moved but was made a permanent DH. Which I found that very unusual and made me skeptical of what was happening.
Why permanent DH? This isn’t standard industry practice. Remaining the back up and taking reps is standard. Even after learning a new position, guys keep taking reps at their old position. So it didn’t sit right. Devers is only 28 years old and can athletically field. He could easily be the back for Bregman. So this became a red flag.
Why make him a permanent DH? Focus on only hitting, maybe. He’s coming off injury and out of shape, maybe. But that didn’t make sense. The Red Sox still had a logjam and prospects to promote and an injured Yoshida, so why prevent all that to make Devers the DH? The out of shape excuse is only temporary, guys can get in shape, they’re athletes. The focus on hitting wouldn’t prevent a guy from maintaining back up preparations. It had to be something else.
What changed? Devers was no longer a third-baseman. Devers was a DH. Why would position matter?
Well, we know Devers’ ego and identity were tied up in 3B. Ego and identity are about maintaining self worth. So position is tied to value. Taking away 3B and making him a DH is somehow about value. Bill James’ moneyball is tied up in this. How positions are valued differently is because of different defensive weights are assigned to each position. It’s a foundational aspect of how teams evaluate players. 3B is inherently more valuable than DH. So how does this matter in Devers situation?
Well, being a DH lowers the value of a player, so this doesn’t make sense. Why the Red Sox would purposely lower his value to themselves? At the time it made no sense, but it becomes clear it essentially puts Devers contract even more underwater than when he was as a 3B.
If Devers contract was going to go underwater when he became a 1B/DH in the later years, there is no way any team will take that contract. Think Giancarlo Stanton in New York. A team would have to pay assets or eat a big chunk of the costs. This is well known in dumping, a big reason why the Red Sox still have Yoshida.
Okay, so if the Red Sox push Devers contract underwater to themselves now instead of 3 or 4 seasons in the future, the difference is the perceived value. Right now, there is still good value in Devers to play in his prime. Later there is too many costs. Okay so that is why Devers became a permanent DH, not because of team first and definitely not because he needed to move to 1B. Those are just good cover stories but the nuance says otherwise.
Going back to Devers now permanent DH, what has happened during that time. The fans pushed back and eventually Devers agreed, reluctantly to be moved off in favor of Bregman to improve to the defense at 3B. Fans are upset at Devers because made a public stink about not doing what the team needs, throw out how he makes so much money. This is what fans care about, team first. Devers reputation takes a hit. People who were never upset at him are wondering if he’s a problem. Essentially this undermines his support, right or wrong, regardless of nuance.
Devers and Red Sox move on. The result is Devers is not happy. The Red Sox are holding an underwater contract well before it was expected, and the fan support has waned partially. Casas goes down for the season. The Red Sox ask Devers to learn 1B. Devers being uphappy doesn’t agree. Red Sox had told him one thing and now they ask him for another favor. Devers mouths off and media takes the story and runs. Fan relationship with Devers is at an all time low. The Red Sox relationship with Devers is at an all time low. John Henry flies to KC to meet with Devers about the future, how to settle this.
We don’t know what was said inside. But the guy who pays the contract to Devers is walking into that meeting with Devers words and the facts the contract is cost him money.
A month later we have a trade. Devers to new home, a fresh start. Henry isn’t paying $250M over 8 seasons for a DH and got four pieces in return and it cost much less.
My understanding is that putting a players contract underwater for yourself to use for justification later is dubious at best. The fact the Red Sox created the impetus to push Devers out of 3B permanently with signing Bregman, in hindsight only looks more dubious. Them asking Devers to learn a new position on the fly is also dubious.
It may be long winded or “spun”. But this is what the nuance has led me to believe, and I don’t believe in coincidences, especially not with billionaires surrounded by hundreds of people like Henry, a guy who pioneered part of the Moneyball movement that stimulates the advanced metrics, sabermetrics and beyond that has encapsulated the baseball world.
Maybe this was the right move in the name of profit. But as a fan of Devers, this only hurts me. I don’t save money. I don’t get a fresh start. I had a player I’ve followed for 8 seasons tarred by the same people who supported him. I think rejecting the justification spoon fed to me by controlled media is not something to swallow. If that is what you call ridiculous, fine. I can live with it. I’m believing in myself and not what someone else told me.
Cleveland – like Fever, I disagree with your take on the whole Devers saga. But I wholeheartedly endorse your right to feel that way.
At least you guys generally aren’t name calling and shouting down others.
I keep saying I’m looking forward to the books and tell-all data dumps of these events and others the past few seasons.
Sometimes, things get rolling and they take on a life of their own because of errors by both sides. And that *clearly* happened here. And it’s even more complicated because translations can change nuances or the degrees of forcefulness of adjectives. What one guy says tepid or non committal comes across more strongly upon filtering through the translator.
That’s one difference between a guy like Ortiz, and, Raffy… the use of that translator so much, I’m sure it hurt things a good bit
ClevelandSteelEngines;
I like your posts, but take a breath here.
The Sox FO – like anyone that follows baseball – knew that:
1. Devers is a poor fielding 3B.
2. Bregman is a Gold Glove 3B.
Devers was hurt to start the season. They put Bregman there. Devers slowly got healthy. They could have moved Bregman to 2B (which he had offered to do when he became a FA…..he was originally a SS but moved by Houston as Correa was better) when whoever got hurt there; but they’ve have too many young 2B, SS, and OF candidates and they want to play them. So they told Devers he was going to be a DH.
Unfortunately, they didn’t have a backup 1B when he got hurt. and they have all these youngsters. Now……
How come they didn’t ask one of the surplus young infielders or outfielders to learn 1B? That would have given them playing time.
Like the Orioles the Red Sox have too many prospects that they can’t pass judgement on unless they get lots of playing time, so they have to move the veterans out. Both teams FO’s have totally botched their “rebuilds”….or whatever they’re doing is called…..while their fans thought they were entering 2025 as contenders. No way Jose was that going to happen.
Both teams are messy because the FO tried to do something that couldn’t be done: Be a contender when they have too many young players that they want to bring along at the ML level, and the veterans were in the way.
I have no respect for either of those 2 FO’s. They’re wrapped up in statistics and don’t have a clue as to how to bring along young players….knowing that a good percentage are going to be average at best, and some will wash out.
When they went after Bregman in the offseason it was clear that they preferred him to Devers. Am sure Devers and his agent knew the handwriting was on the wall. I did and wrote it here in the offseason. Anyone with experience working in baseball or following it knew. What happened from ST on was clearly going to happen.
Samuel — If Devers and his agents knew, he’s Anthony Hopkins level good at acting.
Devers’ agent, Nelson Montes de Oca, I believe is part of Rich Paul’s Klutch Rep 1 baseball group, and it has 8 mlb guys, with Devers being the center piece. A bunch of their guys sign extensions before free agency.
I’m pretty dubious about if this agency is all that good. unitedtalent.com/article/klutch-sports-group-acqui…
Not communicating is the basis for relationship breakdown. Had there been communication, it wouldn’t have been possible to trade Devers. But it did happen. It’s ridiculous to trade the franchise center piece because his defense is bad
John Henry is that you?
The Padres never reached out about Devers. They did reach out about Duran.
The Padres are 100% about clubhouse culture and going to extra mile to win. They are about having players willing to play whatever position it takes to help the team win. Devers is the exact opposite of the type of player they want.
Guess that extra mile to win secret sauce runs out in October
Well, only one team per year can go all the way.
Padres have been in the playoffs 3 of the last 5 seasons. They made it in Shildt’s first season. They are on pace now. Devers would not fit with their culture and the Padres did not reach out about Devers.
Are you serious? The same team that overpays Machado is “ all about chemistry “? Show me a bigger dick in mlb
Well, there is one on this board that is a bigger one. Go take a look in the mirror. Machado on the other hand has been the epitome of a leader as a Padre.
Not crazy about Machado but he is one heck of a player.
“The Padres never reached out about Devers.”
So you’re saying Sean McAdam is a liar?
Maybe, the Red Sox reached out to the Padres and asked if they were willing to beat SF’s offer for Devers?! You could read the Red Sox comments and interpret it that way also..
Either Sean McAdam is or Shildt is. Shildt in his post-game presser in response to being asked if the Padres had talked to the Red Sox about acquiring Devers said no, they hadn’t.
I didn’t know schildt was part of the front office
If you don’t know that managers have a say in what players a team goes after, there is really no help for you. Try a simpler subject.
The Padres might have called and said ‘how much of the $250m will you pay’. The Red Sox said none … and end of the conversation.
The Red Sox said they had spoken with several teams about Devers. Its more likely that they reached out to teams they felt might have a need in an effort to dump Devers and the Padres said no thanks.
lol. Of course they didn’t, Pads Fan. Let me take a wild stab in the dark…. the baseball media is making stuff up and being all anti Padre again. MLBTR should be embarrassed for reporting on it.
How did I go ?
Yep. Josh Hader was all in on the team when he was a Padre. That culture just had him going all out for the W’s.
@websoulsurger by ‘going the extra mile’ you mean ‘cheat to win’? Because your star is a known PED user, you just had the most steroid driven season by a player in recent memory (Profar), your other star is known as the dirtiest player in the sport and your GM has been caught faking injury reports among other transgressions.
Padres have been the cheatingest/diriest team over the past few years and Devers is likely too good for them as a person despite his pride.
Boston has plenty of bad reporters but McAdam is a well respected journalist and has no reason to fake a report regarding the Padres. He’s not the liar here.
Can’t wait for the Red Sox to flip hicks back to the cardinals for Helsley and Arenado but then also somehow the cards pay all the salary for everyone. Seems like a great parting gift from MO
I like the deal for Boston for the most part. But if the team does want to upgrade at the deadline where can they do it? Perhaps a rental 1b or middle infielder.
they have plenty of middle infielders.
they will seek what everyone seeks: pitching.
Definitely 1B.
And the public bad mouthing of Devers begins. Just like they did to Terry Francona. I said this was going to happen.
No one bad mouthed Francona. Devers deserves to be bad mouthed.
Um, the front office put out the story about the pain meds, the divorce, and living in a motel. They most certainly bad mouthed him.
Nope. That was from an article in the Boston Globe. The reporter asked Francona about it. Try again.
Henry the owner of the Red Sox owns the Globe. Try again.
Web—Right. And the Globe cited “team sources” as the basis. Most likely the late Larry Lucchino, who did not get along with Francona.
You are saying that Henry writes the articles and has 100% editorial control? Are you on crack?
he decides what gets published. like bezos with washpo. you must be born yesterday
I’m betting that someone called up to suggest that the pain meds were a problem. I don’t buy for one second that this was a random question.
Living in a motel, wot?
If you think that a CEO an international corporation has time to make editorial decisions you are delusional. I have a small corporation with less than 100 employees and wouldn’t have a spare moment to even look at the blogs on our websites before they are published. You must work part time at McDonalds.
Francona’s medical issues were not a secret. They had been public knowledge for quite some time before he left the Red Sox. You may be right that someone brought up to a reporter that he used painkillers and that is why he asked Francona about his use of them.
Chance – Red Sox Nation knew, it’s what this ownership does.
Even during yesterday’s press conference they chose to use the worst possible picture of Devers. It’s all about manipulating perception.
Fever Pitch Guy — and people are surprised. The owner of the Red Sox owns the Globe, NESN, and if reporters and writers want to get access I imagine they play ball too.
The best article I saw was from the Herald by Andrew Callahan. Don’t know much about the guy but he let it rip bostonherald.com/2025/06/16/callahan-red-sox-cheap…
Cleveland – Yep, it’s funny how some people here are so naive about how most management operate.
Red Sox management has all the power, that’s what fuels their arrogance.
It takes a really strong employee (Devers, Xander, Mookie, Lester, etc) to stand up to them and hold them accountable.
To be fair Devers did plenty of badmouthing himself already.
….and Nomar and Manny….and Theo and DD….and 20 of their “star”/fan-favorite players……and other FO people….and other managers….and other coaches……and other players……
A classless organization and a stab-’em-in-the-back fanbase /
local sports media.
A quality FA has to be nuts/desperate to sign to play for that organization in that city without an opt-out clause.
Samuel
….and Nomar and Manny…
======================
About as bad examples as one could choose. Both had to go.
Joe;
Right.
Just like Devers had to go.
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Nomar and Manny had to go. Devers wasn’t even around when those two were traded.
Joe;
I’m sorry to bust your bubble, but…..
Manny was loved by his teammates in Cleveland as well as the fans. He never had any problems there. When he was a FA his teammates wanted him to stay, but when they heard his agent was negotiating with Boston they were calling him and said even if he was going to leave….don’t go there. It was known as one of the worst places to play by ML players. And sure enough, when Manny trotted out to RF his first day in Spring Training the manager walked out and told him to go to LF. Sound familiar? No one in the organization had told him he was changing positions. Within the next few days in ST he realized he’d made a big mistake. And he had. The man should have made the HOF – he was a much better hitter than Thome.
As for Nomar….typical Boston. When he took a step back – which many ML players do as they get older – the media and fans were on him. I was living in LA when he was traded to the Cubs, and the feeling there and around the country by sports fans and media was shock at how vindictive the fans and the Boston media were to him when he left.
I could go into other players, managers, coaches and FO people. You don’t get it. The situation in Boston is well known by professional baseball people. Basically front-runners. I’ve been around and remember Thomas Yawkey. He was the exact opposite: Loved all the people he employed. Payed them well. Backed them all. Put up with problems. The 2 extremes.
And, Red Sox Front Office, Media and fans badmouthed and scapegoated Dave Dombrowski and threw him under the bus after he delivered a World Series Championship to Boston and their best winning record in team history.
I dont know what kind of drone mindset it takes to honestly think that a bad-fielding 3Bman first being possessive about his position and then outright refusing to fill a gaping emergency need at 1B is getting fraudulently bad mouthed. That is one of the most firmly player-first actions we’ve seen in baseball this past decade. It doesn’t make him a bad person overall, but it’s terrible from a professional baseball perspective.
The guy was clearly selfish about his position. He has the right to be that way, but doing that is bad for any baseball team, and fans rightly will criticize that. It isn’t bad mouthing to speak the undeniable and measured truth as matter of fact.
Long – It’s pretty clear you refuse to acknowledge the chain of events that led to Raffy’s refusal to play first base at the time he was asked.
It’s also pretty clear his squeaky-clean reputation prior to this year and his stature as a highly respected and beloved player in the clubhouse doesn’t matter to you.
I could provide links to hundreds of articles supporting Raffy, along with the reasons why. But I know that wouldn’t matter to you.
But hey, you have the right to hate anybody you want for any reason or no reason. We all have the right to make personal decisions.
Longinus;
Indignant Blah Blah Blah.
Look……
Mr. Devers is hitter – one of the best in MLB today. He is NOT an athlete. Nothing wrong with that. The Orioles can stick SS Jorge Mateo in CF and he can play it so well he’s in the top 20% of CF’s in MLB. But Mr. Mateo is an athlete.
Two other things you’re ignoring…..
1. Devers was recovering from an injury. Now you also want him to learn 1B on the fly as well? After he was told he would be a DH for the rest of the year?
2. Like most fans here that haven’t played the sport, let me explain something to you……playing 1B is difficult. In fact, it’s a much harder position to play than 3B.
Devers has worked hard on playing D at 3B. Yet he may well be the worst 3B in MLB. I wrote it a dozen times: Put him at 1B and he’ll dropping bad throws from the other infielders. That screws him up and will affect his hitting…..and his value to a team is his bat.
MLB is not rotisserie league.
–
As I noted above, Devers bat in a lineup affects how other hitters will be pitched. Let’s see how Mr. Bregman hits when he comes back.
–
I wrote numerous times when the Red Sox were even talking to Bregman that if he were brought in to play 3B there was going to be a major problem.
–
The funniest thing to all this…..
Mr. Bregman played for a high-class organization in Houston and in front of high-class, appreciative fans. He’s never experienced what he’s witnessing in Boston. Scott Boras got him a contract with an opt-out clause. For sure Mr. Boras will be looking at what alternatives Mr. Bregman has with other teams for 2026. I’d guess that it’s over 50% he leaves at the end of 2025 anyway.
Sox fans didnt badmouth Francona. That all came from the sorry excuse for a newspaper that is the Boston Globe; which John Henry just happens to own.
Otto – Yep it was the leaks from the front office that fed the Tito smear campaign.
They do it ALL THE TIME.
They’ve been doing it FOR DECADES.
Why on Earth would they change now?
Otto371;
You’re stating that a newspaper/media outlet in America
will slant coverage because the owner has a vested interest
in something that the overwhelming majority of their readers/viewers don’t agree with?
I’m shocked! Shocked I tell you!!!!
Bad mouthing of Devers began in Spring training when he pouted, and showed how selfish he was.
Red Sox PR and Media outlets trashed Dave Dombrowski’s excellent reputation
after he built and lead the the team to a team record winning season and a World Series title.
Then the threw him over board and blamed Dombrowski for doing things ownership had ordered him to do like : WIN NOW!
Asshats!
Maybe not probable but it is very possible they will have a better record because of the trade. If they get some offensive boost from Anthony and Duran and the pitching they got helps they could have a nice run. And there probably aren’t any distractions moving forward for whatever that’s worth (unless maybe some teammates resent the trade enough).
Rishi – I don’t think players will allow themselves to be affected.
The players are well aware of the history …. all the homegrown superstars who were treated like crap before and after they were forced out of town.
They other day even Pedro slammed the Red Sox by complimenting the Yankees on how well they conduct themselves.
[…”there is a real chance that at the end of the season, we’re looking back and we’ve won more games than we otherwise would have.”
While that seems unlikely…]
I chuckled a bit here. Regardless of the reason for the trade that’s just a ridiculous comment by Breslow
What is ridiculous is thinking that any one player would be the difference. When Toro and Gonzalez have been better than Devers at the plate over the last month it’s pretty clear that having Devers come to the plate 4-5 times a game isn’t going to make the difference in winning the most possible games. The roster flexibility of being able to play those two as well as Anthony, Mayer, and Campbell more often can contribute to winning more.
Remember, HITTING is only a part of the game. The rest of the guys mentioned not only hit well but can also play defense.
Web – Abraham Toro has been worth -0.6 dWAR (by baseball reference). That is in a part of a season. That is about the same negative value that Devers has had for that stat across full seasons. With WAR being an accumulating stat, that would indicate that Toro is somehow a worse defender than Devers.
I love Romy, but he can’t stay on the field and also has provided negative value by dWAR this season.
Neither of those guys have the offensive upside that Devers has.
Romy has had one season of 100 OPS+ or higher. And that was in only 89 games.
Same for Toro, but the season he did it, he played in only 9 games.
The point here being that Devers bat is much, much better than what Romy and Toro bring. That’s why Devers got a 300MM deal and those other guys are journeymen.
Between them Red Sox 1B not including Casas have a -1 DRS and -1 OAA this season. All by himself Devers had a -9 DRS and -6 OAA at 3B.
Between them Toro and Gonzalez have a 127 OPS+. Devers had a career high 152 OPS+. No doubt he was a better hitter in Boston, but defense and versatility counts. You may notice that he is a league average hitter in OPS+ with a .217 BA and .699 OPS with the Giants now.
Not sure what you are babbling about.
I can spell it out for you.
Devers has a long track record of being a well above league average player. Toro and Romy do not. They may look good in a small sample size, but as they play more, their numbers will regress to their normal values. As we have seen with Toro over these past two weeks.
Toro also isn’t a great defender. He has accumulated -3 DRS in 224 innings at 1B.
Devers poor defense is palatable because of how good his bat is.
Romy and Toro are backups. They aren’t every day players. And because the lineup consists of so many players like this now, the Sox are going to struggle going forward.
Joemo:
You start out saying Toro is a terrible 3B by using a cumulative DWar for proof. That DWar includes his stats from second base where he played in 2021. He’s a terrible second baseman and an average third baseman. For example, Statcast has Toro’s overall defense at third base at +2 OOA. Whereas Devers overall defense at third base is -27. They’re not even in the same universe.
I dont know if it was intentional or if you dont know there are much better sites to obtain specific defensive stats. What ever the reason, your premise for your entire diatribe is wrong.
Devers will be better than Toro/Gonzalez over the remainder of the season.
The Red Sox will likely be looking for a big bat at the deadline. If they can find one at 1B, I expect they’ll go for it.
man – So true, because there’s no way to prove he’s right or wrong …. so no matter what happens, he’s gonna claim it’s true.
Yep, the younger players have gotten the message loud and clear:
1) Never believe what management says
2) Never trust management
3) Never think that ethics or morals matter to management
4) It’s a business, management cares about profit more than anything else
Fever Pitch Guy — Makes you wonder if that’s why Betts wasn’t supposedly interested in signing an extension. The clubhouse guys protect themselves by saying platitudes but I imagine they all know what’s up. Or at least privately discuss.
I saw what David Ortiz said about sacrificing your ego. He did it. Wonder if he is just saying that or he’s hooked up, I mean he got a street named after him right there by Fenway.
Cleveland – Ortiz is still an employee of the Red Sox, so of course he’s gonna toe the company line.
espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20697665/boston-red-sox-si…
Hey guess what?
The trade puts the Red Sox just below the CBT Threshold ….. just a coincidence I’m sure, right?
No way this was all planned for that reason, right?
Fever Pitch Guy — That thought did cross my mind. What is more interesting is there hasn’t been a single article that has touched on this point. You’d think this would be the golden goose of Red Sox news after all the dipping under the line by Bloom.
the reason i believe no one mentioned it is because they are only a couple million below and they were already under it last season so it is not like they are resetting it but just kicking it down the road a season even if they dont do anything this season.
It should play a bigger story because they said they were going to go into to compete all winter. Now those words are false.
are they false though?
Signing bregman is a sign of trying to compete and that was very late winter more early spring, I’m sure bregman told them off the rip guess what im going to go out injured for a while during the season after you have already lost your 1b for the season and another thumper in Yoshida will be out to.
Also didnt they sign Chapman to be setup man in the winter and he was supposed to be depth and push hendricks as well for the closer job.
how about trading for the top trade candidate in crochet over the winter AND extending him. signing walker buehler.
these all sound like they were going into the season to compete.
Maybe the bigger story should be player not willing to move for the betterment of the teams alignment reducing the teams overall potential and lowering their ability to compete.
“Sound like” means nothing to me after seasons of being strung along.
I think the story about Devers not ‘doing what’s good for the team’ is a load of crock. It does a great job slandering a hard working player to fans. Just watching him play game after game, there was nothing to suggest he didn’t do what’s best for the team.
So I won’t buy that guilt trip. You’re welcome to it but I despise being fooled by morals that only serve to save $200M dollars for a billionaire’s purse. Morals aren’t to be messed with such petty things.
CBT comment is an excellent point. Kill two birds. Get rid of a vocal player and stay below the line to help open up spending next year when their true contention window begins. Try to win for 3 seasons then get below the line again and reevaluate.
or, the message is put your team first, don’t be selfish. but keep simping for a tubby diva worth 300 mill. great look
Yoshida is going to replace Devers. They got Hicks and Harrison. They had no place for Yoshida to play before the trade. I agree its unlikely but its not impossible.
I think its more likely that a combination of Yoshida vs RHP and Refsnyder and others vs LHP will replace Devers at DH.
Yes they certainly can platoon some guys and give lefties a day off against lefty pitchers. I said before the season started the Red Sox had to trade lefty hitters and they traded Devers and Casas got hurt so their team works better now because of that.
He explained it well, but it depends on circumstances. If Yoshida returns, and Harrison & Hicks return to form, this team will be about the same as they were when Devers was here.
And Tibbs alone is a heck of a trade chip. He was the next pick after Montgomery, and Montgomery was a big piece in landing Crochet. Someone is likely to trade us a pretty decent vet at the deadline for Tibbs.
From Williams to Devers and many in between another management failure then Breslow hits below the belt when Devers is gone and admits the team is worse now but hey he didn’t sign him. I hope Devers hammers them this weekend.
They’re better off in the long run without him and his contract. They should have paid up for Betts instead.
Devers is a top 10-15 hitter in the MLB, the only free agent they can replace that production with is Tucker who they will need to pay a heckofalot more than that.
Obviously they would have been better off keeping betts but that’s done
Devers is not a top 30 PLAYER in MLB. There is far more to this game than hitting but that is all he can do.
Devers is a top 15 hitter but not overall player. Tucker doesn’t make sense for them. They need an infielder. Bringing Bregman back will help.
Bringing Bregman back is music to Boras’ ears, not sure Henry will cough up when Bregman asks for a longer deal.
Lime – Breslow also took a shot at Devers by stating the team will win more games without Devers than they would have won with him.
Obviously there’s no way to prove it, but if a lie can’t be proven wrong then the Sox front office is gonna say it!
Fever Pitch Guy – “there is a real chance that at the end of the season, we’re looking back and we’ve won more games than we otherwise would have.”
I understand that you’re a Devers apologist but don’t try to twist the narrative. Breslow is alluding to the fact that DH is now open allowing him more flexibility to give the young players more at-bats. While they’re unlikely going to step in and fill Dever’s shoes, there’s more opportunity for them to play and possibly breakout. Put your pitchfork away – that statement wasn’t directed towards Devers.
Jobu – You know what I find really interesting? When I write the exact same facts that countless media write or say, but yet some people point at me like I’m the only one saying it.
Spend some time off this site, read other neutral sites like Fangraphs and The Athletic, then come back here and try to say it’s only me.
BTW – How am I an apologist when I’ve been saying for months a trade is best for both parties.
“Flexibiilty” is just a commonly used catchphrase by management to make excuses for their behavior, you should know that already. It’s right up there with “align” etc.
Hey does this ring a bell? “By trading Mookie we created the financial flexibility to sign our homegrown players and compete for championships every year”.
The only true flexibility this trade creates is allowing Yoshida to return to the lineup. I really don’t think Anthony, Duran, Abreu and Rafaela will be DH’ing 25% of the time.
Last night Hamilton started at 2B because Campbell was the DH, how did that help the offense? How many hits did the Sox have? How many runs? How many strikeouts?
You probably think Roman was kept in AAA so long because he “needed to work on stuff”. LOL
You are the only one saying it.
Breslow said he believes that the team will be better without Devers. I do too.
You live in la la land.
The team just lost a 4 WAR bat, and added nothing to its big league roster. This is essentially punting the season
Sometimes the sum is greater than the parts. Devers bat is not equal to Rafaela the player and that is what the Red Sox believe they will have in at least one of Mayer, Anthony, or Campbell. As of today my money would be on Mayer being the one to do that. In 18 games at 3B he has shown he can hit, hit for power, and play above average defense all at a position he had played only 6 games at during his professional career before being called up and asked to play it.
Since Toro, Gonzalez, and Refsnyder have combined to be as good with the bat as Devers, they are not losing much if anything in that category either.
I am certain that Breslow knows far more about baseball than you or I do since he is actually employed by a team because of his knowledge of the game. Thinking you know more than he does really places you squarely where you were trying to say somebody else was, in la la land.
While you have punted on the season, Las Vegas thinks the Red Sox will win more games now also. Its not JUST Breslow. The Red Sox started the season with a over/under of 81.5 wins. As of today its 84.5 wins. I would be willing to bet that the line makers in Las Vegas know more than you do about baseball as well.
they added yoshida.mayer/roman playing everyday. you’re in lala land. devers burner?
Breslow has to say that to fall in line with the bad decisions made by the team t hat created the Devers situation unless he wants to join all the other Front office people thrown overboard by the Red Sox.
They could have already had that lol.
Red Sox traded Devers away and have the same win/loss percentage now as they did when they traded him and none of the players in the trade have joined the MLB team yet.
Think about that.
lol still in denial stage I see
They are 3-7 since the trade. The day of the trade they were coming off a sweep of the yanks and in the final WC spot.
Now they’re 3 games back of that same spot, with 5 teams to leap.
I hope you made that bet outinleftfield. Vegas odds now have the O/U at 78.5
Your comment is so dumb, I’m glad you’re eating crow. The idea that you think because someone has a job in baseball that they don’t make bad or emotional decisions lacks any sort of reality.
3-7 since the trade, went from WC spot to 5 teams leap frogging them, and had a position player pitching tonight after a good beat down.
I made the bet. Ticket in hand.
Giants are 4-7 since the trade. Red Sox are 4-7. The trade hurt the Giants who had a 41-31 record and were in 2nd place in the NL West at the time more than the Red Sox who were in 4th place and playing .500 ball.
Red Sox DH have a 142 OPS+ since the trade. Devers has a 114 OPS+ since the trade.
You don’t have a lick of sense.
I put my money on them being better than the .500 record they had when they dumped Devers.
A man named Ortiz: learned English, obtained his US Citizenship, took the city of Boston on his shoulders AND played 1st base when his team needed it most!
Lts – You mean when Ortiz played first base in NL cities because there was no DH in the NL at the time?
Sorry dude, that was a really silly comment you made.
Fever—truth. Plus, Papi came up as a first baseman. What would’ve happened if they had asked him to play third?
Chance – Exactly!
Better yet, how would Ortiz have reacted if they had told him all offseason that he would be the fulltime DH …. and then they were to sign another player to be fulltime DH, and instead told him he was going to be a bench player?
There’s a reason why assertive players with bad tempers don’t get mistreated like Devers did.
In fact, Ortiz demanded a trade in 2003 because he wasn’t happy with his playing time.
Fever—Let me add this: I am not and never have been a fan of Devers. I absolutely hated the contract when they signed him and believe that it was an attempt to appease the fan base for losing Mookie. However, what I don’t go for is when management jerks a player around. The famous—or now infamous quote was: “put your glove away, you’re not going to need it.” Then, when it’s convenient for them, they expect Devers to pick up said glove—the one he was told that he wasn’t going to need—and just like that go play first. Now I’ll admit, Devers never should have gone public with his grievances against the club, but he was being jerked around. If he was told that he was going to be the DH, then end of story. Expecting a player that led the league in errors at his position to go and play another position and thinking that he won’t lead the league in errors at THAT position is unrealistic. Either way, Breslow & Co handled this very poorly, as did Devers. Ultimately, I believe the trade was necessary for both parties.
And had time to take steroids, so he could accomplish all that.
Ortiz never tested positive from 2004 on. He got BETTER once regular testing started. What that says is he wasn’t juicing, but you apparently have been hitting the juice to miss the most common sense take on his career.
Lolz@ people defending Devers. Selfish that’s all he is. A guy making that money much coin and finds it beneath him to actually play another position? He can’t even stay in shape. He looks like a tootsie roll stuffed into a uniform.
Not beneath him, he believed he could not play that position on such short notice with no reps @ 1B.
If he had Spring Training or off season to work on it, then maybe so.
But his skills were declining @3B.
Putting him @ 2b without any practice and/or time to learn the new position could have tanked his offensive numbers also.
I meant putting him @1B.
So if only 1 of the 3 Sox prized prospects reach their potential, then what?? I get they’ve done everything they were expected to so far but stranger things have happened. If they are just guys, this team is cooked. They are totally all in on young and basically unproven talent. Very bold move.
hole – Do you know what the difference is between “bold” and “foolish”?
If it eventually works out, it was “bold”.
If it doesn’t work out, it was “foolish”.
If only one reaches their potential for the minimal dollars they will be spending on them the next few years, then the Red Sox are far ahead of where they would have been if they kept the most expensive DH in baseball.
A top position player that plays good defense and hits reasonably well will produce more that helps a team win than any DH, even Devers. Look at Rafaela who is on pace to outproduce Devers overall but is hitting below league average. Mayer who is a rookie and is playing out of position is on pace to outproduce Devers over 162 games.
Now let’s talk just about DH. A platoon of Yoshida and Refsnyder last season would have produced a higher OPS+ than Devers has had so far this season.
More than one of those players will be above average MLB player(s).
Rafaela has 2.7 WAR. Devers 2.3 WAR. Rafaela has been more valuable this season than Devers.
What would Sox fans have said when Devers led the league in errors at first base? What then? He’s not a good fielder, period. Everyone got so hung up on the contract that they felt he should have played any position. “Hey Raffy? Jarren got hurt…we need you to play left field because, you know, you’ve got all those millions.”
The problem for the Red Sox in 2025 is, where do they go to replace the production, especially when Bregman’s not back for at least a few weeks?
Unlike in the past, more teams are likely to still think they’re in it at the deadline.
Trades within the division are hard to get done. I doubt the Orioles are going to want to send Ryan O’Hearn to Boston unless they’re willing to at least slightly “overpay” for him, The Orioles are likely going to want pitching in return too, and that’s not exactly the Boston farm system’s strength. If I’m the O’s and there are multiple bidders for O’Hearn, I tell the Red Sox I want either Sandlin or Early. (If they ask for Perales, I think they just get laughed at.)
The other place I could see the Red Sox going is to Arizona to try and get Naylor. His availability (and price tag in terms of prospects) likely depends on Arizona falling out of the WC race over the next month. If they don’t fall out of the race, he’ll be costly.
Of course, I’d be willing to ship them Josh Bell and Lowe for Blaze Jordan right now…but I’m not the Nats GM and I doubt they’re dumb enough to do that deal. Bell may end up available anyway as a DFA. It looks like Davey Martinez has about had it with much of his terrible offense (Ruiz, Bell, Lowe, etc.)
Id get both sides. Difficult for an infielder to lose a cherished position. But devers wasnt exactally tearing it up on the defensive front, leading in errors. The message of the trade is nothing new. Perform or you’ll be released or traded. Did the sox even bring in David Ortiz to convince him his bat is worth more to the team?
What the braves going to offer? Austin is entrenched at 3b, Olson at 1b. Could they have traded Ozuna and another poistion player for Devers?
That’s almost too bad it didn’t happen because Ozuna would mash in Fenway
I’m curious to see what Melvin does with him. In SD in 2023 it seems with all the personalities and demands (especially Hader) he just kind of switched off. Despite having one of the more talented rosters in baseball they fell flat on their face. That earned him the name Sleepy Bob in SD as he seemed indifferent to it all season.
Melvin managed quite well in Arizona and Oakland where he was voted Manager of the Year a few times.
Melvin’s issue in San Diego was not with the players, Melvin is known as a “players manager”.
It was with AJ Preller the POB.
Preller is a tough Executive for a long time experienced manager to work with.
Preller has his views of how a game should be managed and team should be run.
Veteran Managers like Melvin have their own views.
In San Diego, Preller’s and Melvin’s views of team and player management were like 2 trains on different tracks running in opposite directions.
Remember, Padres Ownership contacted Bruce Bochy about coming out of retirement and a Reunion Managing the Padres.
Baseball Insiders stated there was no way Bochy would work well under Preller’s Front Office leadership.
Instead, Bochy went to Texas and won another title in his 1st year back in the Managers chair with the Rangers.
Devers had no problem taking the team’s money but had a serious problem doing whatever was asked of him. Right or wrong, regardless of how anyone views how the Red Sox FO handled the Devers/Bregman situation or about approaching him to play First Base, they were his employer, they paid him, a lot. They didn’t need his permission to sign Bregman and when asked/told to play First Base he should have been on board. Devers ultimately ran himself out of town
Devers made it clear BEFORE they signed Bregman that he didnt want to move off of 3b. The Red Sox chose to ignore that and sign Bregman anyways. Most teams would not have done that. Frankly the Red Sox ran him out of town by signing a guy to play 3b when Devers was playing there and had a giant contract in place already.
Then he should have worked on being a better defensive Third Basemen because even with Bregman having an uncharacteristic start defensively, he’s still miles better than Devers.
Don’t get me wrong, i loved watching Devers hit and the talking to himself at the plate (which seems to have gone away this season) and all that, but there is no “whatever it takes to win” in him, which is exactly NOT the kind of influence you want around younger players
Devers was and is not a good 3b no question about that. But he was the teams franchise player you don’t tell him to move off the position when he clearly didn’t want to. That was a mistake by the Red Sox.
This “hes not a team player” stuff is nonsense. The Red Sox created all this drama not Devers.
By Devers saying “it’s my position” tells you all you need to know about him being a team player. When you’re paid to be the face of the franchise, you do what’s best for the team.
Casas suffered a horrific injury and instead of being willing to learn the position, he continued to publicly badmouth management and play the victim. No sympathy. You’re a crappy teammate
When asked to possibly move to 3rd Derek Jeter said I’m a shortstop…and he’s considered all around as the ultimate team player….all this negative nonsense only masks how badly the RedSox management does business, but plans out their best team on the field….the return they got sucks….Hicks isn’t going to be a shutdown releiver…the other pitcher gives up 4+ runs and outing and he’s a newbie…and the prospects are just that…maybes or never will bes….
And those Yankees teams would have been better defensively with ARod at SS. At that point the Yankees only knew how to win and were racking up championships, pennants, and playoff appearances, creating a little more leeway, these Red Sox are not.
Why can’t you tell him to move off the position if he sucks at it? This kind of bs flies in the NBA, not MLB.
People still talk about how Jeter was an awful SS and how his defense hurt those teams. You might be in a bubble.
Jeter was never asked to move to 3B. Arod was when the Yankees traded for him.
That you don’t see how bad of a teammate Devers is and that the entire situation is on him tells us volumes about you.
With neither Harrison nor Hicks on the big-league squad, the Red Sox have maintained the same level of play they had when Devers was on the team and that is without Bregman. THAT says volumes about Devers value to the team.
Just so you know, since Devers was dumped, Boston has received a 144 OPS+ out of the DH position. Not missing him much if at all even on offense.
C U Next Tuesday Raffy.
Enjoy playing 1B
I bet he’ll enjoy actually being able to compete for a playoff spot
yea, all the playoff series the Giants have won the past decade LOL
I’ll bet they see him this Friday, not next Tuesday.
“I played for the Red Sox a long time,” Ortiz said Monday. “You think everything with me and the Red Sox was roses and flowers? I went through some tough times also. But I was mature enough to understand and keep things internal. Even in the best families, between the best brothers, s— happens. You need to have the maturity to resolve the problems and move on.”
Ortiz was professional. Team and player are never going to agree on everything and won’t see eye to eye about everything but you make it work. Sadly instead of being the next Big Papi Devers joins the Nomar’s and Manny’s of being great until they weren’t and being shipped out during the season
I’m no great lover of Red Sox management, and telling Devers to “put away his glove” is one of the more idiotic things a GM has ever done, but it’s frankly a little confusing to me how many people are on Devers’ side. I’ve followed the timeline from the beginning and while I agree that ownership botched the communication with Devers, his decision to publicly criticize management and refuse to agree to multiple position changes is extremely out-of-bounds behavior, especially for someone being paid as much as Devers. Anyone who has ever stepped foot in so much as a little league clubhouse knows that this is not how you handle internal conflict with your teammates, manager, or organization.
Baseball—perhaps more than any other sport—has always been about team chemistry, self-sacrifice, humility, and grit. It isn’t like football or basketball where one or two studs can make demands of the entire organization since the team is entirely dependent on their output. Even Ted Williams and Barry Bonds only accounted for 1/9 of a day’s at-bats, and Devers (while extremely talented) is not a “generational hitter” in the way those men were. He is very, very good at hitting. But he is not “generational.” And even if he was, the way he behaved would be in outrageously bad form in any baseball clubhouse.
Not to be self-aggrandizing, but I was probably the best player on my little league team when I was 15 years old, and if I’d refused to play a position my coach told me to play, there’s no question I would have been benched. I’m certain almost every other commenter on this website who has played ball was taught those exact same values. Sometimes you do things you don’t want to do for the good of the team, no matter how blindsided you feel by it. If it was good enough for Kristian Campbell, there’s no reason it shouldn’t have been good enough for Devers. And if the rumors about Devers taking Campbell’s willingness to play first as a personal slight are true, then the case feels pretty closed.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. I would remind everyone who feels differently that David Ortiz, who has infinitely more authority than I do to make these kinds of judgements, has essentially expressed the exact same thing. Good riddance to Devers. I’m withholding my criticism of Henry & Co. until I see how (and if) they reallocate the money they saved by dumping a contract that never should have been signed in the first place—though I will admit that based on their track record, I’m not exactly holding my breath.
You’re not a bad person but I’m afraid to say you are a moron
Thank you. I like your username, it’s funny.
Derek Bell must’ve flipped my wife 8 times and it really bothered me
Crocus—enjoyed reading your post. I’m in the Devers camp in this one. To ask someone to change positions twice in less than three months is a bit much in my opinion. Obviously Devers is a proud man, and being asked to leave your position is basically to admit that you’re not that good at it, which he’s not. Then to ask him to go to another position in the field—that he’s never played—is kind of a kick in the teeth if you ask me. First you say I’m not good enough to play in the field (put my glove away) then you want me to play—in the field? Which is it? Kind of insulting. But you made some good points. Good post.
Thanks for the kind words! I should probably be clear that I don’t really think management handled this situation well, either—they certainly could have had a more delicate touch, and the public-facing comments that Breslow and Cora made in the immediate aftermath of the Bregman signing certainly made the demand that Devers move to DH feel like a blindside. There’s a lot of unprofessionalism to go around in this scenario, from all parties involved.
Ultimately, I feel like management did Devers dirty, and Devers responded by doing his teammates even dirtier. He had every right to be annoyed—and I don’t even think there would be anything *that* wrong with him privately rebuffing Breslow’s requests and explaining that he didn’t feel comfortable with the switch—but the fact that we even know these conversations happened is entirely on Devers, and only a player with an ego the size of the moon would be airing that dirty laundry to the press.
And as a final note, it’s frankly a little ridiculous for the statistically-worst defensive third baseman in the sport to be dying on the hill that they were promised they could play third base forever. If he wanted to hold onto that job he should have found a way to earn it. If you field like a 1B/DH, you don’t get to be angry when you’re moved to 1B/DH.
“ it’s frankly a little ridiculous for the statistically-worst defensive third baseman in the sport to be dying on the hill that they were promised they could play third base forever.”
Yup. I concur. I never liked Devers at third. I always thought of him as a DH. But again, I am not a Devers fan and I am not broken up at all that he’s gone. It’s just the way everything went down that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
What I don’t understand is how everyone is missing the fact that Devers could not play any position in spring training. Because of the injuries to both shoulders he couldn’t even take at bats in games until March 15th. He was physically unable to take fielding practice at all during spring training. WHY would they have to talk to him about moving to DH when he couldn’t physically play 3B?
None of that takes into account that he, as you said, is the worst defensive 3B in MLB.
Circumstances changed. Your post comes off like an entitled, spoiled child’s mentality.
David Ortiz was a great player!
However, Ortiz is on the Red Sox payroll so he will sing the company line until he is not on their payroll or if he goes against he company tune, then he will find himself off the company payroll.
It is how things work.
Ortiz criticized Devers in May, and then spoke out in defense of Devers two weeks ago. You don’t have to agree with him, in either instance, but it seems his opinions on the subject are his own, and are nuanced:
bosoxinjection.com/david-ortiz-sends-message-to-ra… (May)
sports.yahoo.com/article/david-ortiz-says-leave-re… (June)
I stand by my statements. Anyone employed by and paid by the Red Sox has to tow the company line to a large extent or they are shown the door and many players and front office people have found out in Boston.
The GM didn’t say it, Kennedy did. At least that is what was said in the press conference.
Other than that, great post.
Interesting article, but I’m guessing Anthony Franco is a Red Sox fan. It’s about the fallout from the trade, but entirely from Boston’s perspective. I get it, that the short-term impact is probably greater for the Sox, but when the effect of the CBT was brought up, I would have liked to know what the hit was for the Giants as well since they’re adding a sizable contract.
Nothing is black and white, and both Devers and the Sox could have handled things better. I thought Devers’ rejection of the team’s ask to play 1B was not that of a team player. But I also thought the team should have communicated better with Devers about their plans to sign Bregman, and the intended IF alignment. Clearly there hadn’t been any communication when Devers proclaimed that he played 3B back in February. Once the resentment took hold, it seems neither side tried very hard to mitigate it.
That’s a complicated number, and I can give you some ideas how to get a guess, but, ultimately mlb will make the call:
Devers deal contains deferred money. So, the net present value calculation varies based on who does it- for example, mlbpa numbers pretty much always differ from mlb office who sets cbt penalties.
So first, pick the net present value on the deal, that’s this season’s baseline.
Next, devers is in an odd position that he will be on teams playing more than 162 regular season games. So saying, he played 73 in Boston, SF will pay 89/162 of the contract doesn’t really work. Due to scheduling, BOS actually played in more contests than just about anyone in MLB. On average, 3 more than most teams. IIRC, SF had only played in around 71 contests by Sunday night for example.
So I’d presume you’d go off proration of weeks in the season. Off-hand, I don’t know what that is off the top of my head. Pretend we’re 12 weeks in and pretend there’s 28 weeks to the season. Giants would pick up 16/28 of whatever the total number is.
Then you’d be dropping the same prorated value of the guys you shipped out.
Thanks. The deferred salary is $7.5M per season, so that would seem fairly straight forward to compute. But I was wondering not so much about this season, but the CBT hit for the remaining 8 years of Devers’ deal, and the impact with the long-term contracts of Chapman, Adames, and Lee already on the books.
My understanding is that the CBT hit on Devers is $29.66M/year. I don’t think the trade alters that?
Wait – won’t change it except for prorations this season, how much is charged to BOS.
Jean – the full value of the cbt hits in future seasons fall to SF.
The one piece I wonder about though, and have no clue honestly, is that there was deferred money due after devers should be retired that was earned already on the expired portion of this extension.
They’re future payments… do those fall to SF, or, will Boston be making a payment one season and a partial payment another in the 2040s.
Mlb rules require the club to invest a certain amount of money during the actual player year earned deemed sufficient to grow, with compounding, to meet the future obligations… but only in a team held, team controlled fund. Ensuring ability to pay, in theory. Although in practice, market crashes, etc, guaranteed projected growth isn’t a thing.
Thanks, but not what I wanted to know. The article said where the Sox were as a team against the CBT threshold. I wanted to know how close, or how much over the threshold this puts the Giants with the addition of Devers’ salary.
GA, Since the deferred money is per season, the Sox will owe only for the previous 2 seasons, and the pro-rated value of 2025. The Giants are on the hook for the rest.
Cots is claiming devers gets a $2m assignment bonus on top of his salary from SF.
They’re saying the difference in actual salary between Devers and Hicks/Harrison is also another roughly $10m add in actual money this season. That’s not CBT but it’s a starting point:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1mJmiNy5aP9WMJ-…
I watched a thing that had us about 7m under this year. It was a rough calculation though.
The future payments are charged to the team he played for in the season they were earned. Thus the Red Sox will eventually make a year and a half of deferred payments to Devers.
The CBT hit for those is immediate, though.
GA, Thanks for the link. That’s useful.
The Giants are filthy rich, and I don’t think they care much if the do exceed the threshold, Certainly that $2M reassignment bonus isn’t much of an issue.
fangraphs.com/roster-resource/payroll/giants?seaso…
This page has been updated to include the trade. It appears the Giants are still well short of the CBT.
Pavlovic was also explaining some “unathletic” concerns from 2030 to 33. Adames and Devers getting on in age and to a lesser extent, Chappy. Figures Buster will have some work to do to get around that.
The CBT hit is based on the remaining salary owed on the contract. Signing bonuses are prorated over the length of the contract for CBT purposes. Because he is being paid $27.5 million from 2024-2026, and $31 million from 2027-2030, and $29 million the last 3 years, Devers CBT hit to the Giants is larger than it was for the Red Sox.
Never really understood why Devers is so adamant about moving off of third base, If he was an above-average defender, or was nearing a contract year, I’d totally understand that. But Devers has always been a below average glove and is under control through the 2033 season. Who is possibly benefiting from this refusal?
Classy GM’s/CBO’s don’t slam their former players after they trade them.
Can’t have a player throwing temper tantrums and being pouty on a young team. It sets an horrific example and Boston is one of the youngest, if not the youngest team in the bigs. You keep control of everyone else by making Devers an example, the message has to be to do what’s best for the team. Devers didn’t do that, he should of been on first. He made himself expendable.
I find it ridiculous that a position switch during the season is a consideration. There is alot to playing any position including first base. That’s not something you throw at a player out of the blue. Spring training maybe.
Before ST actually, if Breslow and Cora were on the same page.
Cora likely wanted Breslow’s job and maybe isn’t so happy he didn’t get the FO job? I may be way off on that as I don’t follow Sox.
It seems like Devers is taking the biggest “PR hit” mostly because of poor communications between Breslow and Cora and Devers “disgruntled employee” responses to sports media.
I think Posey and BoMel have a better function relationship and Devers will be fine in SF.
He won’t be asked to play 1B as Eldridge will likely get promoted to the bigs (after the assumed Dom Smith struggles).
Of course he will be fine. The players are ecstatic, the fanbase is pumped and the org will treat him like the star he is. The whole picking a side and riding it to the death is just fan rubbish. Completely irrelevant to anything. It’s awesome for the Giants and Devers. The splash hit counter guy will be busy and the place will be going nuts for him. People can argue for their team in his stoush with the Sox all day long but nothing is going to change how awesome it is for the Giants and their fans. It’s great. Dudes going to have a great time. Plenty of pent up love just waiting to be bestowed upon him. It’s a very cool turn of events.
The whole picking a side and riding it to the death is just fan rubbish.
=========================
Is that just an American thing, or does this happen elsewhere. The number of people that are die-hard fans of the Left or the Right, and don’t challenge a single item on their platform, astonishes me.
It is seldom a binary choice.
I’d was going to go with American thing but thought I’d get crushed. Ha ha. Went the safe option !
Obviously it’s everywhere but it appears very prevalent in your country. I’ve got it as ego. You guys have ones that are on the larger side. The bigger it is the harder it is to push it to one side and absorb contrary information. To me, American ego has so many of you changing information to suit your opinion. Craziness. You got to be humble enough to let the information form your opinion and as you point out, you will probably settle on a shade of grey. I think that has the majority of the world oscillating between centre left and centre right.
In short, you need to fall out of love with your own opinions.
Cora has said before he eventually wants to move to the front office, but, not yet.
I don’t think Cora wants breslow’s job, as much as Cora wants more influence and power than a typical manager gets.
Eventually, I see Cora becoming a GM under a PBO, not even an AGM, as his planned next step. (Personally i dread it in many ways.)
But, Devers is taking a pr hit because of his ego and attitude. Breslow approached devers in confidence and private asking about trying 1B due to unforeseen injuries knocking out Casas. Nobody knew, nobody reported it. Devers ran his mouth off full blast in the clubhouse creating the firestorm, and, according to some reporters, teammates were tell devers to just stop talking in the clubhouse and he ignored them.
No matter what you think about the off-season, or, amorphous prior promises neither player no agent bothered to put in the contract, or all these things that are reported with qualifiers, that right there was a boneheaded move. Frustrated or not, the FO didn’t start that dustup.
padd – FTR Cora was asked by Henry to interview for Bloom’s job, but Cora refused …. he said he’s not ready yet to leave managing and join the front office.
It really highlights how infatuated Henry is with Cora, to consider Cora as a strong candidate for the CBO job.
Henry doesn’t want new hires with experience, he wants them inexperienced so he can “mold” them to be what he wants them to be. Hence the hiring of Bloom and now Breslow.
Kinda like how parents mold their kids to think and act like them.
Henry and Sam Kennedy wants “puppets” not real, independent, experienced front office executives like Epstein, Dombrowski, Bloom, Hazen etc..
Sports – Exactly!
And yesterday Kennedy really, really resembled Mr. Burns from The Simpsons.
Henry resembles Creepy Thin Man from the Charlies Angels movies.
“The good news is that playing first base isn’t that hard….tell him Wash”
“its incredibly hard”
Some guys (Willson Contreras?) make it look hard
Devers arrived at spring training on Feb 10th and could not practice at any position because of injuries to both of his shoulders. That is why the Red Sox went after Bregman.
Devers could not even take batting practice until March 4th and after that he told Cora he could not continue to do so. He took another week off and didn’t bat in a game until March 15th.
At that point even if they had not signed Bregman, who was still saying he would be willing to move to 2B, Devers could not have opened the season playing any position on the field. He could only DH due to his injured shoulders.
Moving to DH was not thrown at him out of the blue. It was a necessity because he was not physically able to play otherwise.
Moving positions mid-season because of injuries to other players happens multiple times every single season. Every year. It is so commonplace that no one even questions it. Professional players that are good teammates just do what is in the best interest of the team. Only a selfish POS would refuse. Enter Devers.
I don’t understand why he refused to play a different position especially when your defense is at the bottom of all 3B. You’re a ball player and wouldn’t you do anything you can too be on the field and winning.He’s a athlete after all. Do it for the betterment of the team. My Tigers have multiple players that can play multiple positions on our team.They do it because they want to help the club anyway they can.I never understood why they paid him so much money in the first place.
because they panicked when mookie left. you don’t give 300 mill to a fat 25 year old one tool player
Sure you do. It was a great contract.
I don’t get finding it cumbersome or unthinkable to ask a player to move to a different position. There are 1,000 guys in the minors, if called up to the majors, would gladly play anywhere the manager wanted him to. Heck, were it me, I’d even go a step further and offer to mow the outfield grass on my off day just to be able to go to work and put on an MLB uniform.
I’d also hang a sign on the clubhouse door, “No Prima Donnas!”.
Careful now Backup – you are stepping into Red Sox fan territory. The passion is amazing and the devotion to dying on every hill or bump in the ground is mind-bending. Pounding out reams of drivel and nonsense is the way of a large section of the Nation, as they prefer to ignore their more sane brethren that are trying to utilize common sense.
I’m looking at this as in the same way as the Casas injury. He’s gone from the team. But in this case, they got some talent back. That’s a good thing.
They’re undefeated since he left. That’s also a good thing.
It’s still all about the pitching. Gio looked great. We’ll see how Buehler does.
Adding Harrison into the rotation and Hicks to the bullpen maybe takes some pressure off of Crochet, who’s already pitched a lot of innings.
Getting Yoshida back helps, Roman starting to hit will help. This is still a pretty good team that hasn’t quite put it together.
I have unilaterally decided that Cora is Billy Martin, version 2.0. So there you go, Cora haters.
All this bashing… time to move on. What can we do to win now?
Reading these comments, I would say Devers is going to think he died and went to heaven when he gets to Oracle this evening.
The best thing for him is that he will playing alongside Y A Z.
At the end of the day it comes down to the person.. 40 plus years I’ve worked for the largest grocery chain in Midwest. Many of those years in management of departments, I was payed the most in department and I had the most responsibility accordingly. As a member of the Team I would try and put my employees in best situations to succeed and be productive, many times I would do jobs more difficult or ones looked down on to show my employees I was not above doing what it takes to make the department better. Disrespect was a word that seems to have popped up along my career that I never truly understood. I would get my yearly reviews and way more ,were good than bad. On a few occasions I exceeded company numbers for the year across the board only to be rated satisfactory. I easily could’ve become disgruntled and made my disappointment known around the department , but I didn’t. It would only make things tougher to achieve with the Leader being a negative influence…Did management treat me with respect/ fairly, insert what ever word you may, probably not but I was being paid, if I didn’t like it there were other opportunities for me to seek. I continued to do what was possibly the best I could do under different circumstances throughout my management career… Finally after 35 plus years in management it was time… Just become a regular employee. No more leadership responsibilities. They tried everything to keep me in management but Father Time is undefeated even in the grocery world. As I stepped aside I could see the things I built crumbling not long after I left… while it sort of vindicated my performance through out the years I was at peace with decision… I see the Devers situation from many sides but in the end it’s him / his actions and decisions that he’ll have to live with… good or bad…
olmtiant
At the end of the day it comes down to the person.. 40 plus years
==========================
Nice post. The thing I tell people is that this is why they call it ‘work’ and this is why I got paid.
I think I was lucky with my jobs, and mostly enjoyed them. But of course there were bad days. If every day is a bad day, then you have to move on. Otherwise you have to occasionally put up with some stuff that you’re just not going to like.
Joe B.. thanks.. I really feel it’s the person but also my parents did a incredible job showing us growing up WHAT a work ethic is…
olm – Without question, the Golden Rule is always in play ….. whomever has the gold makes the rules.
But another thing that comes into play is supply and demand. There’s value in having an employee who is not only highly productive but also has a lot of company-specific knowledge and experience and is truly happy at their job. So the question is, how easily can they be replaced?
I’ve worked for an extremely arrogant, egotistical owner who, similar to the Red Sox, treated all his employees like dirt because he believed everyone was replaceable …. especially older workers who would have a much more difficult time finding another job.
He got away with it during the recession when unemployment was high, but once the job market became strong the turnover where I worked was through the roof.
It resulted in two things: A bunch of unqualified new employees who had to learn everything from scratch because there was nobody left to train them
And massive difficulty finding new hires because the employer’s horrible reputation got around, and recruiters no longer wanted to work with him.
So this really isn’t about Raffy, he’s just more collateral damage like Mookie and Xander and Lester and so many other stars the Red Sox have crapped on. Hes on a team now that appreciates him, values him, and respects him. He will be very happy for the next 8+ years.
What this is truly about is the extremely negative perception that Sox ownership and management is creating. Young stars like Marcelo and Roman will view playing for the Sox as a job, nothing more. They will not think twice about leaving in free agency for a couple million more dollars.
Remember, even if you blame both parties here ….. this is Raffy’s very first strike against his reputation, but it’s at least the 14th strike against Sox ownership and management. This year’s drama will have a far greater negative impact on the Red Sox than it will on Raffy.
Because with the clear pattern the Sox have established in disrespecting their star players, most in the baseball world will blame them for this fiasco …. not Raffy.
That golden rule comment made me smile.
Rafael Devers is not and will never be a team player. He uses the excuses of being asked to learn a new position but if he was really wanting to win it wouldn’t matter what position he played. Rafael would rather DH and complain than he would help his team. I don’t believe he will make it the rest of his contract with the Giants either.
Tony Perez moved from third to first. Pete Rose was an all star at five different positions. Joe Torre was a catcher. There’s those who will do anything to win and those who sulk and pout.
And pitchers used to be pitchers and not bail after 4 or 5 innings. Devers would have easily moved positions with the right communication…look he is already willing to take ground balls at 1B in SF.
There is a huge gulf between words and actions in Devers’ case. He said he was willing to practice at 1B for the Giants, but there has been no indication that he has actually done so. Not one article I could find. No photos or videos on YouTube of him taking infield practice at the position with the Giants.
Don’t play a team sport if you aren’t willing to be a team player.
He wasn’t being asked to fall on a grenade. He’d already been paid.
Whiny little …..
Canseco went from OF to pitcher for an inning!!
If the Sox don’t reallocate the money to acquiring another bat, this is going to make them look even worse. They can only hide behind the whole “Raffy wouldn’t do what’s best for the team” slogan for so long. If the deadline passes and they haven’t done anything to upgrade the offense, all of their “go for it” goodwill from this past off season goes to crap.
And don’t give me this “we have to get Ref and Romy in there against LHP” or “Toro is blossoming into a star” bullcrap either. As well as those guys have performed this year, they are all role players. Breslow needs to swing a deal and get a legit bat on the roster.
Years ago, the Cleveland Indians had a star in the making playing 3rd base for them named Jim Thome. He, too, was not a good fielder at 3rd base. Now, I can not remember if Cleveland had already brought in a 3rd baseman to take over at the position, but I do know that Cleveland asked Thome to slide over to 1st Base, which he did without making a fuss over it. And he then becomes one of the most prolific power hitters of all time. Bryce Harper moved from outfield to 1st base and did not make an issue of it.
Looking back on this years later, what kind of a career will Devers have had? Will his saltiness & rigidity affect his career and (now) the Giants clubhouse and opportunities to win a World Series? Only time will tell.
Perhaps I’m showing my age here, but I learned today from a previous comment that Thome was actually drafted as a SS. What a steal that draft pick was
BREAKING NEWS “Devers to play 1st in this series weekend against the Red Sox.”
Here’s the deal:
1) This trade was both horrifyingly bad for the Red Sox and inevitable. No matter how you cut it, the Red Sox gave away their best hitter for a “fresh start.” Could they have gotten more? Well, yes but it would have involved paying a chunk of Raffy’s contract through its duration. So yes, the return is lousy on paper when you don’t look at the money but so technically was the Gonzalez/Beckett/Crawford trade. That reset the franchise and the Red Sox won the WS a year later because of the salary dump.
2) Raffy should never had gotten this contract in the first place. Sounds like sour grapes but he essentially got a contract extension after the botched Bogaerts talks. Everyone had their eyebrows raised on it. While there was hope his defense would improve, people were already muttering he was a future DH. It came down to the front office needed to show future talent that they would be taken seriously.
3) Raffy will eventually play 1st for the Giants, likely this season. Not necessarily full time. It’s just a matter of a refresh, not an insult. He needs to learn his place on the teaming frankly out of the Boston media pressure cooker he’ll feel less like being made the villain.
4) Raffy never stepped up. A lot of us Red Sox fans loved Raffy’s bat but were not happy with the fact he was unwilling to take on the leadership mantle. In a place like Boston, a young player signing a massive contract, you’re kinda expected to be the clubhouse leader. Again, gotta think less of that pressure in SF.
Still not a fan of this trade. But I grudgingly accept it was going to happen and frankly sooner than later is probably better.
1) Kinda agree, but I feel youre selling Harrison and Tibbs short. I thought it would be mostly a salary dump if they traded Devers, especially at this time of year. And, if you look at it from the signing point until now they made out great. This is a much better haul than a comp pick wouldve provided if they let him walk.
2) “people were already muttering” People already KNEW. Go back to the signing page on MLBTR everyone knew he was going to become a DH. The question back then was ‘How soon?’. So Devers shouldve had an idea this day was coming.
4) $300M and he’s makes a stink about changing to a job where he does half the work? Of course he should be the villain. But, the media made management and owners much more of a villian than Devers. Many players over the years have had to change position, and the few that refused were almost always villainized. Devers got shockingly good treatment from the majority of Boston media.
Of course, the Blue Jays were interested.
Failure to communicate.
Sounds like Breslow is cleaning house both on the field and off. He’s building a winner., through the system. He just wants it to be his system. Kinda like where his heads at. No nonsense.
Yes, until he’s fired and the next GM decides he needs some major league veteran players to provide wins, leadership and ability…….GM’s always have a plan until that plan results in too many losses…..
But not man enough to communicate with players in a respectful way. You can say Devers didn’t fall in line but also need to acknowledge the weakness in the GM and how it created a bad situation with a star player causing a panic trade. This could have all turned out better with any real leadership in Boston.
For the first time in memory the Red Sox are building a team from their own development system. In the past, it’s been hitters or pitchers, but never both. And usually not nearly enough pitchers.
Campbell, Mayer, Anthony, Duran, Rafaella, Casas, others like Abreu, Hamilton, Wong through trade early in their career.
Bello, Dobbins, Houck, others through Rule 5 or trade.
Only 3 position players over 30, only 3 relievers over 30.
That is unusual but not without precedent. 1967, 1975, 1986 teams were full of farm products and trade acquisitions with a few veterans.
What team is hitting on both sides of the ball consistently…answer none. Boston has done a great job building Championships with cores from their system from draft picks to international signings. 4 Championships in the 2000s and here are just some of the key contributors from their system.
Vazquez, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Garciaparra, Youkilis, Devers, Benintendi, Ellsbury, Bradley Jr, Betts, Arroyo, Buchholz, Lester, Papelbon. That doesn’t include steals like Varitek and Lowe who were prospect returns on savvy trades. Don’t forget smart cast-off signings like Ortiz, Whitlock, Narvaez. Now they are reloading with Casas, Campbell, Mayer, Duran, Rafaella, Anthony, Bello, etc.
Easily top 5 in homegrown talent with only one top 5 pick in decades, impressive.
Baseballs a team sport. I can see why the Sox’s unloaded him.
In the press conference, did Breslow communicate that he takes any level of responsibility for the breakdown in the relationship? The communication errors have been pretty well documented and if I’m one of the Red Sox young players, the message I’m getting is that Breslow will take advantage of power and leverage rather than openly communicate in a partnership that is intended to serve both the team and my career well. Even other players around the league and agents see this situation unfold and I wonder how that affects negotiations with free agents.
If I was a Red Sox fan, I’d want to hear Breslow say something to the effect of “I learned something from this” or “I understand where I could have acted differently”. You can frame this as a financial flexibility win for Boston if you want, but this isn’t a great outcome.
You are saying you didn’t even bother to listen to the press conference? If not, then don’t comment.
the breakdown was on DEVERS part. not the Red Sox. He arrived at camp so badly injured he could not even take batting practice for nearly a month and could not practice at any position, let alone play 3B. That is the entire reason the Red Sox reached out to Bregman.
If you are not willing to learn what is going on and don’t understand the situation it’s best to shut up.
Yeah. I am willing to learn which is why I asked the questions. I didn’t tune into the press conference or zoom call or whatever it was. I read this article and heard a bunch of other media outlets report on it. Relationships very rarely break down because of one party’s actions alone. Devers has a huge part in this for sure. But when we’re talking about a young person playing a kids’ game and a high level executive whose job largely entails exhibiting leadership traits in order to create personal growth of those around him, I think the larger responsibility lies with the adult in a leadership position. It’s entirely possible Breslow did everything perfectly, but that’s not the perception the baseball media is portraying. The media has highlighted quite a few points along the way where communication was not clear or even open.
When Devers signed, it felt like a sigh of relief for a Boston fanbase that was tired of seeing their stars leave town. Especially after the optimism that had been building around this team, the outcome of losing Devers had to be frustrating for the fans even if they lay the majority of the blame at Devers’ feet. In the case of a frustrated fanbase, just an acknowledgment that there were lessons to be learned for everyone could help gain trust from the part of the fan base that would put this more on management than on Devers. In all the reporting on it, that’s the thing that seemed missing to me. It’s not something that any of the coverage I have seen heard clearly enough to mention.
I could probably find it archived somewhere and judge for myself, but part of asking here is that I usually enjoy interacting with other fanbases. Seeing their more up close and personal perspectives of something that I only get from a bird’s eye view from national media is interesting.
Craig, I know you understand that myself and many others hope you don’t feel safe going to Starbucks (I would bet money he doesn’t even like Dunkin; anyway) but I will commend that a consequence of the fallout I didn’t see coming is Giolito’s best start in YEARS. The fear that you put into the rest of the roster by dumping your best player for two iffy MLB relievers, an Abreu equivalent if Wilyer couldn’t field, and a random Gomez in the Minors? Lucas doesn’t want to get traded to Chong Chang in CPBL. Respect.
Devers should.be grateful.
Now.has a chance.to.go to the playoffs…..
Funny thing… Boston holds a wild card spot currently. And SF holds a wild card spot currently.
Boston is 4 behind in the wins column of the division leader.
SF is 3 behind in the wins column of the division leader.
Oh, snap! I thought they were farther out than that. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Wait – technically true for both.
BOS played 3 extra games than NY, and, lost them all. So the official line is 5.5 games off division lead. But, will NY win all 3 of those extra games? Not how they’ve played lately.
In some ways, that’s also a blessing, it means going forward BOS is going to benefit from 3 extra off days as the season goes on for their BP and SP to rest up. If you told me halfway through the season I get 3 extra resting days the teams I’m chasing won’t? I love that
SF likewise played one game less than the LAD. So the line is 2.5 out, not 3.
But, trying to maintain being an optimistic mindset, i focus on how many in the wins column were behind. And, either way, BOS still holds the 3rd WC already in sole possession
Yeah, I noticed that. I’d rather have the bullpen stretched in May than in August. I’m liking those extra off days going forward.
Have you noticed? The Red Sox are 34-21 when their current rotation toes the mound. (They are 4-15 behind Houck, Newcomb, and Fitts.) When the rotation gels like it has, the wins really pile up!
There is a real possibiliity that both sides played it wrong, but management always wins. But the amount of energy on the part of some of these posts is so over the top particularly when you see what’s going on in the world. Some people need to get a perspective or therapy or both.
Sacrifice is one thing, disposal is another. Now the Sox may have only showed to the young players that they’re expendable if they don’t agree.
Everyone is expendable.
SFG are running out Dom Smith at 1B, so I sincerely hope this is a wakeup call to Devers that he is a corner infielder AND DH and he needs to be prepped to play any of the 3 on a given day.
@rockiesmagic – His agent says that he needs a raise if he is going to have to dig his glove out of the closet again. It needs to be seasoned properly as well, as cast iron can rust.
oh god did the sox clubhouse use soap on it
Save 250 mil and get prospects/suspects in return. It’s the way it works. The Sox needed him gone, the Giants needed a lefty stick.. The only losers are the Sox fans. However they really don’t matter.
Right move getting rid of a me player. Stroman falls under that category too.
Devers is not a team player and it’s clear that he is selfish. You can make whatever excuse you want for him. He got paid and if you’re a winner you do whatever the team needs to get better. He is a bad defender at 3b. Should the Red Sox keep running him out at 3b because Devers thinks he is good? Under that argument no player can be benched or released because they were signed to play a certain spot and the team must honor it. Wilson Contreras was signed to be a catcher, his defense was poor and he moved to 1b. Didn’t hear any complaining. You can’t have cancer in the dugout no matter how good of a hitter you are. If you’re blaming the Red Sox for his me first attitude I think you’re off base. Devers acts like he is Brooks Robinson at 3b. The Red Sox realized they needed to defensively upgrade 3b to contend. They could have taken the route of the Pirates and just left him out there. This isn’t on the Red Sox.
Now it’s coming out Devers took it as a personal slight that Campbell came out and offers to play 1b after he refused.if true…thats rich and glad that entitled selfish pos is gone for any return…#additionbysubtraction
Ha!
If there is ANY truth to that at all, then he HAD to be traded. It’s one thing for a primadonna player to set boundaries for what he will or won’t attempt. Selfish, perhaps, but it happens. But to try to control the rest of the roster is beyond the pale.
The Red Sox needed a 1B after Casas went down. If you don’t have a 1B, then you end up with an awful lot of throwing errors from SS and 2B. Kudos to Campbell for offering, even if I don’t know if that would have been the best move. Shame on Devers for not offering, whatever he was previously promised.
Was it also a personal slight for Toro to step in at 1B? Not like Toro had all that much prior experience at the position either.
Both things are true, the Red Sox lost talent in the deal but they also became a better team because of the deal.
I want to know what the Padres, Braves and Blue Jays were offering!
Padres don’t seem to have the money so they would need to offload some cash or have the Sox pay down the contract. They include one of their rental aces?
Braves also don’t seem like a financial fit. Trade Ozuna for Devers?
Both those would be win now moves or at least offset some of the immediate talent loss.
Blue Jays could afford the contract but probably couldn’t match Giants prospect return.
Are the Sox a better team without Devers now, obviously no,will they be better off in the future , YES. When Henry gets on a plane and flys to Kansas City to ask you about 1stbase and you say No. You cemented your status as a me first player. Mistakes were made on both sides,but when the guy that signs your $300+ million checks asks you to give 1st a shot and you decline , well that’s it.
There have been no shortage of players who were asked to change positions, either temporarily or permanently, and some of them have publicly lashed out about it or been prima donnas about their displeasure with the notion. But, ultimately, most of them will swallow their pride and do what is best for their team (and teammates). I remember Alfonso Soriano wanted to stay at second base, Manny Machado wanted to be a shortstop, even Mike Trout was a little hesitant to give up centerfield. But those guys did what was right and everyone moved on. I get that communication issues may have exacerbated the situation, but the whole ordeal with Devers seems silly and unnecessary. It’s a bad look from everyone involved, but especially Devers. He could’ve just as easily been the bigger man and came out of it looking like a hero rather than a crybaby.
What’s ironic, and shouldn’t get lost in this debate about Devers, is that there’s absolutely ZERO chance he’ll be the Giants everyday 3rd baseman either. Sure, gold-glover Matt Chapman is currently on the IL, so perhaps Devers makes his SF debut at the position. But he’ll know it’s only temporary…and probably only willing to do it so it’ll make Boston look even more stupid for making this trade. Especially when they play each other in the coming week!
Obviously you have to make this trade if SF but I’m still confused as to how Devers will be happier there when they already have a great 3B who’ll be back soon, and otherwise it’s the same situation for Rafael, DH or 1B. Those are two things the Giants need but he was unhappy about playing there in Boston? Now he’s locked in to that for years. (Unless they plan on trying to trade Chapman? Which probably wouldn’t sit well there if they can even do it.) Interesting to see how it goes down.
Devers will need to suck it up. He held a grudge against a new PBO who had nothing to do with an unknown, unrecorded, supposed verbal former promise a prior gm made before being dismissed for ineptitude.
No, he’s on a new team, where he’s never been promised an ability to butcher 3B indefinitely. He can take his check, suit up wherever they tell him to, and put in full effort, or retire.
I resent and resemble your remark. You spelled white wrong too.
Sox should have landed Bryce Eldridge in this deal.
Giants are going to be spending a lot more on the post-game buffets!
I know Eldridge is ranked, but he’s a strikeout machine.
I doubt that there’s an employee anywhere who tells his employer, “No, I won’t do what you want me to do” and isn’t removed from the organization.
If you don”t own the business, do as you’re told or face the consequences.
All in all, you’re just another brick in the wall.
SF win in the present but BOS win in the long term. They get rid of the prima donna attitude that would have negatively shaped its top prospects They also get back the $250m which they can use to sign the kids long term who will represent their franchise better than Devers ever would have.
Onwards and upwards Boston. It took guts to make that decision and it’s for all the right reasons.
For all those who thinks Devers was victimized. He’s still getting paid and you can still watch him. So, go do that.
They paid Devers because of his bat, despite being one the worst defensively. They moved him to DH and told him he was terrible defensively. I can see why he’s not eager to pick up a glove again for them.
You don’t do it for “them” you do it for your teammates..thats what Devers still doesn’t seem to get..winners do whatever it takes to win he proved he’s not about winning..he didn’t even try
next move- find someone to take Buehler and get him out the door..
The signing was worth a shot, but his nearly 6 ERA isn’t gonna get you much of anything back at the trade deadline. find a taker and move him NOW before he has absolutely no value at all.
The contrast played THE major role in facilitating the trade. Coming up on 10-5 rights also figured in. Red Sox happy, Giants happy, Devers happy. Happy, happy, happy. Why isn’t Craig Breslow smiling?
Will be interesting to see if Devers has any lingering physical issue the sox may be aware of that could get exposed this weekend…or if he was just dogging it on the bases recently because he’s a bad teammate
Maybe he is just a fat guy.
all of those reasons don’t have to be mutually exclusive, of course.