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Juan Pierre Traded To Cubs

Well, it's official - Juan Pierre will be playing center field for the Cubs in 2006.  I reported this deal as done back on November 23rd, and I rightfully caught plenty of flak for it.  So I immediately dialed up Jim Hendry's personal line and demanded that he deal two of five possible pitchers for Pierre so that I wouldn't look bad.  Hendry complied, threw in Sergio Mitre, and here we are.  (I'm kidding, obviously).

I'll discuss Sergio Mitre, Ricky Nolasco, and Renyel Pinto in a separate post.  For now, I want to take a closer look at Juan Pierre and what he "brings to the table."  Cubs fans seem thrilled with this acquisition, so I asked myself, "What exactly does Juan Pierre do well?"

Getting on base

Pierre boasts a .355 career OBP.  In 2005, the average NL CF got on base at a .340 clip.  So Pierre is a tick above average in that department despite all of the cool drag bunts and slap infield hits.  Available CFs who got on base more frequently than 35% of the time last year include Jason Michaels, Kenny Lofton, and Johnny Damon. Brad Wilkerson can be expected to top .355 in 2006, and Milton Bradley will probably come close. 

Baserunning and stealing

Well, once Pierre does get on, he's a terror on the basepaths.  Right?  In 2005, Pierre was excellent at going from first to third, succeeding 43% of the time (surprisingly, that compares well to the rest of the league).  On the other hand, he only succeeded going from second to home 38% of the time, which is a poor mark.  It's a small sample (21 attempts), but Chris Speier might want to consider throwing up the stop sign occasionally when Pierre comes his way.

Oh, but let's not forget the steals.  Man, does this guy steal bases.  He's averaged 52 steals in his five full seasons.  Still, Pierre's career success rate at stealing is just 74%.  According to Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus,

"If you're stealing at less than a 75% success rate, you're better off never going at all."

Hmmm.  So you're telling me Baker should never attempt a single stolen base with Pierre?  Something tells me that's not going to happen.

Defense

Ah, but with his blazing speed, Pierre surely is among the game's top defenders.  Er, not so much.  Ever heard of Bill James's Range Factor?  It's calculated by adding up putouts and assists, multiplying by nine, and dividing by the number of defensive innings played.  Here's how some regular CFs ranked in 2005 in Range Factor.

Rank Player Range Factor
1 Jeremy Reed 3.05
2 Damon Hollins 2.95
3 Nook Logan 2.93
4 Johnny Damon 2.93
5 Brady Clark 2.85
6 Brad Wilkerson 2.84
11 Milton Bradley 2.68
15 Kenny Lofton 2.53
26 Preston Wilson 2.27
27 Corey Patterson 2.23
28 Juan Pierre 2.21

There's our man, dead last in the game, well behind several freely available CFs.  I could dig up some more defensive metrics to say the same thing; I won't bore you with those here.  He's not a good fielder.

Power

C'mon now, it's Juan Pierre.  He's got less power than Neifi Perez.

Durability

Oh, that's it.  Juan Pierre shows up to work every day, doesn't get hurt.  I guess that's worth something.  It kind of reminds me of the blowoff classes I had in college where the teacher would make Attendance 10% of your grade.

Conclusion

Am I missing something?  Juan Pierre is basically a more expensive Scott Podsednik without the defense.  He should probably be a fourth outfielder on most teams.  Color me unimpressed by this trade.

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Comments

You'll get nowhere in life presenting facts. Pierre is "short and fast" and he "looks like a leadoff hitter", therefore he is. Nice job by Chicago trading away the farm for a 1 year rental, and a less than great 1 year rental at that. Nolasco is a big time arm.

he will still get himself in scoring position for lee and aramis much more then there current players and yes u are missing something because the cubs outfield is terrible and pierre is a number one in chicago, also dont look at stats, lee and aramis will have many more rbis this year solely because of pierre great trade for the cubbies

I agree with the poster... TERRIBLE deal for the Cubs

how is it terrible nolasco and pinto are the cubs 3-5 best pitching prospects, the cubs filled a major gap and i would much rather have pierre then a gathright

Actually I think Pinto might be the best of the bunch...I'll post on that later. But yeah. Even Lofton is better.

Don't look at stats? What am I supposed to look at?

Just because the rest of the Cubs' OF sucks or sucked in '05 doesn't mean Pierre is a good player.

wat im saying is that pierre will still get on base alot and rich hill and guzman are definately further along then pinto people may make a case that that player rae-juk-yu is to pierre had one offf year u can expect him to bounce back

wen i say dont look at stats im saying for the cubs he is a perfect player

I love all these stats. None of them mean much when compared to what the Cubs threw out there last year.

Regardless of his "percentage" of stealing 2nd or going from 1st to 3rd or 2nd to home, the kid gets on base.....something the many suitors for the leadoff spot on last years Cubs team failed to do.

Speed & the ability to keep the defense on their heels at the top of the order, or more importantly, in front of Lee & Ramirez, does a lot more than those statistics show.

And another thing...Everyone keeps saying Pierre is a 1 year player. If he makes a difference for this team, who says the Cubs don't give him his money? They haven't had anything close to a consistent leadoff guy with speed since Lofton, who was for half a season.
If he provides that spark, he stays a Cub.

As far as the prospects go, its pretty obvious no-one is safe. This is for Jim Hendry's job. How many players from the current Cub roster came from the Cubs system? When you want to win now, you trade your future...when you lose, you trade the present for the future.
I am tired of the years that we traded away the present for the future.
I'm not a big stats guy, and although stats don't always lie, they don't always tell the truth, the intangibles.

And one last thing...Pierre is one position on a team with possibly 4 other question marks (SS,2nd,LF,RF). Pierre doesn't solve the power question, so I'm gonna wait to give my grade on Hendry until they are done.

book signing tomorrow
lol

its a definite improvement. having even just a 10% better chance of having ducks on the pond with lee/ramirez coming up to bad.. ill take that over an exasperated corey patterson strikeout anyday. you dont have to be thrilled or even have eyesight to realize that this improves the batting lineup dramatically. you dont need a homerun hitter in the least bit on the cubs. their bullpen is more anchored. theyve gotten rid of super strikeout vortexes (patterson and burnitz).. it'll definitely be a winning season, but i'm afraid to predict more than just that.

I wouldn't guarantee that Pierre will get on base a lot. He certainly didn't last year. Jerry Hairson got on base at a higher rate than Pierre last season.

Michaels and Wilkerson would have been better options.

I'm not upset about Pierre being a Cub. I am upset about how much they gave up for him. I'd be a lot more comfortable if they had dealt only one of Nolaso/Pinto instead of both. Losing Mitre isn't a big deal.

and ps, i say his last season was a fluke and he'll return to a +.300 hitter with a change of scenery and fans. wrigley is a whole different work that miami.. and believe me, i've been to cubs games at boith places. i'd hang myself and chug drano if i played for the marlins. especially now.

Another thing....The guy stole 57 bases last year.

I can't remember Corey Patterson getting on base 57 times, lol.

It seems like I can remember more than 57 games where he struck on 3 times or tried to pull the ball when all he had to do was slap it on the ground and run.

RM, I hope you picked up the sarcasm in my comment. You are on the money, Pierre is really overrated, especially considering he might walk after 2006, and they gave up as much as they did.

You stats guys drive me nuts!!!!!

If 2005 was a fluke, was 2002 also a fluke for Pierre?

He's just as likely to repeat one of those seasons as he is to repeat his 2001, 2003, or 2004 numbers.

I did, James. We're on the same page. I wish I knew what the Cubs analyzed before signing off on this.

You people bringing up the steals, are you ignoring what I said about success rate? What if he steals 100 bags and gets caught 150 times? Is that still awesome?

No one has told me something that Pierre does well besides stay healthy.

"He's a true leadoff hitter" - what does that even mean? Doesn't it mean getting on base A LOT and stealing at a high percentage?

The guy had 180+ hits, 57 steals - ON AN OFF-YEAR!
I'd put that up against Jerry Hairston anyday or Kenny Lofton for that matter.

you can check the stats of most decent players (cept pitchers normally dont follow this pattern) and ever 2-3 years there is a "down-year." i know there's several sides to this, but i still would make a running bet with anyone that his BA will be better overall whent he season is said and done.

Hate to tell you, but stats are a better way to project what a player may do than his "intangibles."

Pierre is ok, and with Dusty filling out the lineup card, he's also a necessary evil. If he didn't have a fetish for fast players batting leadoff, none of this would be an issue.

If Pierre can at least meet his career average numbers this season, I'm not going to complain. I do think we'll eventually regret trading Pinto and/or Nolasco though.

If Pierre signs some sort of long term deal, then this trade isnt as bad, but isnt Pie a CF? Granted, im a Phillies fan, so I dont know the inner workings of the Cubs farm system, but Pie is projected as a CF, right? If the thought was to trade for Pierre, use him for the first three months, get Pie adjusted, then trade Pierre before the deadline, dont you think you gave up a lot for a rental?

Pie can play right or left.. not only does he bring great speed but he's also got great pop. I compare him to Soriano.

James,

Even if he's in Chicago for all of 2006, they still gave up a lot for a one-year rental. Maybe (big maybe) Pie will be ready by the break and they can deal Pierre for something of value.

Yeah.. I want Pie to be like Soriano (sarcasm)

I think Corey Patterson is a perfect example that the Cubs will probably take their time with Felix Pie.....they will do what they can to make sure he isn't rushed.

As far as next year or overcrowding in the OF, I'd rather have that problem than their current one...

the guy has averaged 195 hits a year for the last 5 yrs....can anyone else on our team or who was available say that

our obvoius weakness has been leadoff

prospects are exactly that prospects

gary scott,kevin orie,micah bowie,bobby hill,hee sop choi,dave kelton,lance dixon,ben christensen,mike harkey,pat cline,ty griffin,earl cunningham,todd noel,

nuff said

I could make a pretty long list of other prospects who were quality Major Leaguers. If leadoff was our weakness, Pierre doesn't fill it.

Pierre will cause more fastballs for Todd W, Aramis, and Derrick. There is a tremendous indirect benefit.

Believe me, If Pierre is good in Chicago in 2006, he will not be a 1 yr rental.

They had to give up the 3 pitchers because the Yanks and Sox wanted the same guy that this site thinks is overrated.

Supply and Demand.

Get over it.

our prospects..if he doesnt fill that void who could that is available for the same type of "prospects" we gave up
i am curious to see your list...i still remember when mike piazza was available we wouldnt include that prize prospect and cant miss kid pat cline

always trade a maybe for a sure thing...195 hits
anyone else on our team going to do that


I totally agree Andy.

RM, if he doesn't fill it, who exactly would? What was our weakness?

I just can't understand how anyone can compare Pierre to Hairston or Patterson and tell me they haven't gotten better from this deal.

i told you douche bags you needed to sign me.

im better then pierre, and i want a one year deal.

Yeah, sign him on that one year deal.

He hasn't had more than 400 AB's since 2001 with the Indians. He complains alot, can't stay completely healthy.

If not, come find me at the trade deadline. He'd rather put in 100% for half the year on a contender.

After the official trade of Pierre, why don't the Cubs re-sign Nomar and have him play second? Cedeno is a great defensive SS, and Nomar could hit in the 2 hole. I could easily see him rebounding with a .290-20-75 year at the least.

Oh, and nice "living in trailer parks is fun!" post above. That was hilarious! Of course we should watch out, the Cardinals have been making a huge splash moves-wise so far this offseason. Wait, what have they done?

the Cards signed catcher Gary Bennett and infielder Deivi Cruz..watch out.

Seriously though, Jocketty always finds ways to get what his team needs. Even if it doesn't make the front headlines, doesn't it seem as though they work 9x out of 10?

soriano to dodgers has seemed to cool off a bit. i imagine other offers are on the table too.

Jarid, our weakness was getting on base. Whether the guys are really fast runners or just ok runners, they need to be on base. Pierre's ability there is questionable. Wilkerson and Jason Michaels both get on base, and Wilk adds power, a nice bonus. Strikeouts aren't much worse than any other outs.

The Pierre acquisition was just what the Cubs needed. With the payroll capability that the Cubs have, you use prospects to get proven players. Pierre is on the right side of 30 and has played 162 games for 3 straight years.
When there is a void on your major league roster, use the prospects (suspects) to fill that need and that's what Hendry did. Kudos to him. I'm feeling better.

Lofton only made a few remarks in the beginning of the season, and the team was playing like dog poo, they deserved it. He behaved himself really well, especially considering he platooned all season with Michaels. If you compare stats from 2005, including Win Shares:

Pierre had 719 PA's, 658 ABs, .276/.326/.354, an 11.4 hitting WS, and a 2.9 fielding WS for a total of 14 win shares.

Lofton had 406 PAs, 367 ABs, .335/.392/.420, an 11.8 hitting WS, and a 3.8 fielding WS, for a total of 16 win shares.

Michaels had 343 PAs, 289 ABs, .304/.399/.415, an 8.8 hitting WS, a 4.0 fielding WS for a total of 13 win shares.

Combine the CF platoon Philly put out there with Pierre:

Philly: 749 PAs, 656 ABs, .322/.395/.418, with 25/31 (81%) in stolen bases.

Pierre: 719 PAs, 656 ABs, .276/.326/.354, with 57/74 (71%) in stolen bases.

Combine the Win Shares:

Philly: 11.8+ 8.8 hitting = 21 WS, 3.8 + 4.0 fielding = 7.8 WS. 28 total WS for center field.

Pierre: 11.6 hitting, 2.9 fielding = 14 Win Shares.

Bottom line is, in fewer ABs, far fewer, Lofton outperformed Pierre last season, not even factoring in Michaels.

Like I mentioned above, I'm not a big stats guy, but isn't a 200 hit, 50+ steals guy noticeably better than anything we threw in the leadoff spot the past 2 years?

I just don't see why you think the Cubs are worse off in this deal. Prospects yes, but I think its obvious that none of those guys would have made a serious impact on this years team.

yes, but Lofton has not played a full season since with the Indians, so you can't assume he would put up those numbers all year long.
Half the year, sure. The full year? He isn't what he was from back in the Cleveland days...if he was, then why hasn't any team since 2001 given him a chance to play full time?

Not comparable in my book, but i'm no Rob Neyer.

You ar 'dead on" about Pierre.

Hendry would like for Cub fans to focus on Pierre as the solution to the leadoff morass that the Cubs have had, and he might be AN answer there, but if anyone thinks that the signing of Pierre is a better solution than getting Furcal, they wouldn't know a baseball from a roadapple!

Pierre is costing the Cubs a couple of fine prospects, and brings with him, ALL of the poor defense you indicated plus the worst CF arm in the game. At best he is about equal to Furcal as a leadoff hitter and basestealer, but Furcal was a gold glove caliber player. So in essence, to save 1 or 2 Million dollars, the Cubs have given up these two prospects and saddled themselves with a terrible centerfielder, who at best should be playing LF!

Jarid,

The argument isnt that Lofton would replicate his numbers over the full season, the argument is, they might have been better off going with a Lofton/Pie platoon this season, getting Lofton cheap, not sacrificing picks. Lofton hit .348 against LHP last year, so its not far fetched to think they couldnt have split time with him and Pie, taken the pressure off of him, and worked him in slowly.

The Pierre trade just doesnt make a lot of sense.

James-
That makes sense. But, who can assume Pie is going to be ready in any role?
Maybe they just don't think he is ready yet, or don't want to take the chance on another position of uncertainty.

As far as right now, they might already be doing that in LF with Murton & SS with Cedeno. Can they compete with 2 rooks? Three?
I understand where you are coming from, but I think it could go either way.

James-
That makes sense. But, who can assume Pie is going to be ready in any role?
Maybe they just don't think he is ready yet, or don't want to take the chance on another position of uncertainty.

As far as right now, they might already be doing that in LF with Murton & SS with Cedeno. Can they compete with 2 rooks? Three?
I understand where you are coming from, but I think it could go either way.

sorry, that new security thing screwed me up.

Lofton had over 500 at-bats in a season as recently as 2003.

The Cubs leadoff problem is only a problem because of who the manager kept putting in that spot. Neifi Perez, Jose Macias, and Corey Patterson are not and should never be leadoff hitters. Todd Walker would have been just fine as a leadoff hitter in 2005. He's not the ideal solution, but would have been much better than just about anyone else Baker put out there.

Yeah, i just saw that, my bad.

IT IS A CHANGE.... and that is what we need this year... SOMETHING TO SHAKE THINGS UP.... I love it!! Lets make some more moves!!!

James, I felt the same way as you, only concern is rushing Pie and giving him a big head like they did with Patterson. I suppose Pie could be the late season fall back in right if they go after Bradley.
Overall, Lofton probably made more sense, if you were confident about his health and attitude. He great when he's motivated, no question.

I would like to know what Pierre's defensive stats are in home games compared to away games? Can the poster of this site do that?

The reason I ask is because I believe that Pierre's poor defensive characteristics could be a result that he played 81 games last year in a MASSIVE outfield. Playing center field in that stadium must have been overwhelming. Him playing center field at wrigley has to be a more managable task for him. Hopefully he can really succeed at wrigley.

Why do we go off last years stats so much? Yes Pierre had an "average" year. But 4 out of 5 good years is pretty good. If Lofton is so great, why didn't the last 10 teams that had him, keep him? And if stats mean everything, then the Cubs should trade Prior for Abreau, Zambrano for Clemens, and Felix Pie and Rich Hill for Barry Bonds. How good does all your stats sound now? Pierre was a good trade for the Cubs period. Last year, before the start of the season, would you have looked at the White Six roster and thought, "wow, these guys could win the World Series" ? If you answer yes, than you are a liar. They did not spend the most, they didn't get what other people regarded as the best, and they didn't look at stats. They filled holes and they gathered poeple with a thing called DESIRE. That is what truly wins it, unless you are the Yankees.

While I dont feel Pierre is the best CF or leadoff hitter, this short-term investment makes the most sense. Lofton would be fine, though he cant play everday, so that would just present more questions. Now Pie is the future, Pierre is older and will help fill the next few years till he is ready to roll. Pierre's defense is suspect but it wont be a liability so i dont see it as much of a problem. Remember this isnt a fantasy league, so the pierre deal makes the most sense since the CF had to be a stopgap for Pie.

Would the 2003 Marlins get to the World Series and win it without Juan Pierre?

Pierre didn't have an "average" year. He had a below-average year. And how do you get "4 out of five good years?" 2005 wasn't his only bad year...he wasn't good in 2002 either.

I think most people, including myself, are more upset about what the Cubs gave up for Pierre than they are about the fact that Pierre is a Cub. For the price they paid, they probably could have done better.

"Would the 2003 Marlins get to the World Series and win it without Juan Pierre?"

Depends on who would have been in CF everyday in his place. Pierre played well for them that season, but he certainly wasn't the most valuable person on that team.

After missing out on Furcal, please tell me a better alternative for a relatively young, starting CF, speed, 200 hits, 50+ stolen bases, and a leadoff hitter...that wouldn't cost as much as what they gave up?

Lofton, no
Wilkerson, no
Damon, $$$$$$$

It fills a hole people. Its a piece of the puzzle...and the Cubs have many more to fit.

Wait, did someone just say the White Sox looked at no stats when creating their team? OoooooooooK dude.

I didn't dwell on Pierre's .326 OBP from last year, I used his career mark. His last few seasons have been similar defensively. I also used his career stolen base %.

Can't get fielding stats per stadium...wish I could though.

Wilkerson brings more to the table than Pierre does. For starters, his career OBP is 10 points higher than Pierre's AND his OBP is not as dependent on his batting average as Pierre's is. Wilkerson is perfectly capable of playing all three outfield positions, and can hit for power. His numbers suffered a bit in 2005 due to a forearm injury, but if healthy, I'd prefer him over Pierre.

See, and I think Wilkerson is okay, but 150 strikeouts from your leadoff hitter? Didn't we see that enough from Patterson?

The Pierre deal fills a need and obviously points to filling any power void from the RF position.

Strikeouts aren't really much worse than other types of outs. It's been proven.

AHHHHHHHHHH

Okay, I give up.
Let me know at the end of the year about Pierre & how he fit into the Cubs lineup, and I'll let you know in 2+ years how Pinto & Nolasco are doing.

Better would be to compare Pierre to the performance of all of the other available center fielders for 2006.

IDK, I guess I'm just looking at it from a different perspective. All these stats show Pierre as an individual.

But they don't show anything on how it would improve what the Cubs had from the past 2 years, or how 1 player can effect a lineup and the people batting around him.

Plain & simple, he makes the Cubs better, based on who they have put in that position in the past.

Was it for too much? Who knows.

According to ESPN's site, Pierre was third among all CF in RUNS scored and 11 in CF OBP -- among all qualifying CF's. And he had a down year. In addition, I am not sure how much weight I would put into James' Range stat, Pierre was asked to cover much more ground than anyone else in baseball outside of San Fran. If Pierre plays average defense, gets on base more than 35% of the time, he will score over 100 runs easy with Lee and Ramirez hitting behind him. By the way, has Jason Michaels accepted your marriage proposal yet? By the way you write about him, you may as well be related.

Hey guys, anyone who will call the Pierre trade a stellar one is a fool. Rather, refer to it as a good move. I usually like to take a safe stance on these issues, but I'll make an exception for this time.

I pointed out in a much earlier post (I believe the one about Milton Bradley and Derek Lowe) that Pierre is one of the worst defensive CF in the game, howevever, the Cubs should not be overly concerned with that fact for two very obvious reasons: 1. the north siders will have more than enough ability to shift the OF around if they aquire Bradley or a RF to hide Pierre's defensive weakness 2. Pierre will be playing half his games at Wrigley Field, a park that looks little league in comparison with Pro Player stadium. It is easy to have a poor range factor when you are in a very large center field.

This post also discredited Pierre's basestealing ability, well guess what; Pierre successfully stole 77% last year, and pods, the Chicago love child managed only a 72% SBP.

Also keep in mind what he does for a team like the Cubs. D. Lee only drove in 107 RBIs last season despite hitting .335 with 46 HRs, not to mention that he hit .331 with RISP (Runners In Scoring Position.) Something tells me that a having a guy like Pierre would of raised that 107 10-20 points.

Still don't misinterpret me as overvaluing this trade. I am still somewhat annoyed that he has been aquired with only 1 year left on his contract, and I am very aware that Pierre is not nearly the lead-off hitter and defender Rafeal Furcal is. However, my belief is that the CF may help push the cubs out of mediocrity and into serious world series contention. (Of course assuming that Hendry doesn't scew up the rest of the off-season.)

Don't get me started on Pods...

Rumormonger,

You like to point out how bad Scott Podsednik and Juan Pierre are but seem to forget they are world series champions in '05 and '03 respectively. Bill James statistical analysis is great and he has changed the way the sport is looked at, but there has to be a median in a way you judge a player. As cliche as it sounds, it really isn't all about statistics. Clearly, when Juan Pierre and Podsednik are on base, it affects the way a pitcher works. Milton Bradley, Jason Michaels, Preston Wilson....none of these guys would be able to bat leadoff. Leadoff is a tough position in the lineup to hit in.

Respectfully, I don't agree. Not every player that happened to be on a WS team is good or a necessary component of the victory.

Stats can prove a Pierre or a Podsednik's effect on the pitcher. I'm pretty sure it's negligible despite the way it may seem.

Are you saying Bradley and Michaels just don't have the guts, the scrappiness to hit 1st in the lineup as opposed to 6th or something? That seems flimsy to me.

I may not be remembering this correctly... but isn't Vince Coleman the baserunning instructor for the Cubs in spring training?

I know Juan Pierre is mid-way through his career, and may be set in his ways... but it sure would be nice if Vince could help up that 74% steal success rate.

I like that idea, Trey...get him to be a little smarter with the steal attempts.

As for the stats, inc. stuff...it's the whole stats vs. scouts debate...I don't think we're gonna agree on Pierre. I wish the best for him, regardless.

Why would you even bring up Range Factor. Anyone who knows anything about that statistic understands that it depends on the number of balls put in play. Fielders on teams with strikeout pitchers (such as the Marlins and Cubs) have fewer opportunities to make plays, meaning that they will likely have lower range factors.

Look at zone rating, a REAL statistic, and you will find that Patterson and Pierre are at the top of the crop of CFs.

Er, I guess we can look at ZR, where Pierre ranked 12th. I wouldn't call that the top of the crop. There are, of course, problems in that stat as well:

http://bradbury.sewanee.edu/wordpress/index.php/2004/07/thoughts-on-zone-rating

Also, the Brewers and Phillies' staffs had higher K rates than the Marlins, and that didn't seem to stop Brady Clark or even Kenny Lofton from compiling a better RF than Pierre.

>>>>Ever heard of Bill James's Range Factor? It's calculated by adding up putouts and assists, multiplying by nine, and dividing by the number of defensive innings played.<<<<

Isn't this a bit deceiving? Didn't Pierre play in a larger outfield which would limit his putouts and assists? To really determine range don't you have to balance it by considering the size of the ballpark?

The more I learn about publicly available defensive stats, the more they all seem to have flaws. I emailed the guy at Sabernomics, who understands these things better than me. He recommended David Pinto's PMR, so I'm getting in contact with him.

the dude is fast, Wrigley is smaller, he'll be fine.
x 9 / 3 + 2

Scoring from 2nd base can be a misleading figure. Alot depends on where the ball is hit, who it is hit to and how hard it is hit. The idea is good but the numbers are misleading.

IT IS AWSOME TO GET PIERRE HE FILLS THE HOLES THE CUBS NEEDED TO FILL AND IT STOPS HIM FROM KILLING THE CUBS EVERY TIME WE FACE HIM.

Calling Pierre a 4th OF was a swift denouncing of any credibility the opinion in question had.

You want stats? How about three 200-hit seasons? Does 200 freaking hits mean anything anymore????????

This is so obviously blatant stubborn forced and contrived ignorance. You're not ignorant, please don't act like it just for the sake of bawling like a newborn, which is the expected reaction for any Jim Hendry trade (see: Derrek Lee for Hee Seop Choi. Reaction: OMG Cubs future = fail'd!)

Is it true that if the Cubs get there RF (Bradely or Abreu)they are done for the offseason or will they get a pitcher since they still have money left over.Hendry said he will pursue a pitcher if it was in the bidget.

Is it true that if the Cubs get there RF (Bradely or Abreu)they are done for the offseason or will they get a pitcher since they still have money left over.Hendry said he will pursue a pitcher if it was in the bidget.

budget sorry.

Why are 200 hits the golden grail if they are all singles? Pierre has to hit .300 to be a starting level player because most of his value is his batting average. His walk rate is ok, he has no power, is bad defensively, and SBs are a bit overrated, especially when you're trying to be on base in front of Derrek Lee (there's no reason to get out on the basepaths when you have a monster like that coming up).

I feel the exact same as zeus on this one. If Pierre got 200 hits and drew walks like Brian Giles, he'd be incredibly valuable even without any power.

SD, you'll notice that I don't think the Cubs gave up much at all to acquire Pierre. Not sure why you're putting words in my mouth.

My beef is just that Pierre isn't a good player. Are you saying that the number 200 (hits) all by itself negates every other stat about Pierre? OoooooK.

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