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« Mets Interested In Santana, Dotel, Chacon | Main | Cubs May Trade Mark Prior »
Angels/Marlins Cabrera Negotiations Hit Snag
Mike DiGiovanna of the L.A. Times has the latest on the Angels' ongoing talks with the Marlins about superstar third baseman Miguel Cabrera.
The two teams have hit a snag about the combination of players, according to Giovanna. It's not that the Angels view any of Howie Kendrick, Jeff Mathis, Ervin Santana, Joe Saunders, Nick Adenhart, Reggie Willits, or Brandon Wood to be untouchable (previously it had been said that the inclusion of Adenhart was an issue). It seems that the Angels will give up certain combinations of the above-named players (probably three of them) but the two teams can't quite match up.
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well ifthe Marlins are asking for Kendrick, Adenhart and Wood then I dont blame Anaheim for holding off. I wonder if a Kendrick,Willits, Mathis, Santana would work?
On a seperate note, have the Dodgers pulled out of this or are they jus working quietly? I still think they have the best pieces, unless of course they prefer to go after Johan.
Posted by: curse_ended | November 27, 2007 at 12:04 PM
Kendrick, Santana, Adenhart
I'd tell em take it or leave it if I were the Marlins. I'd threaten to move him to the Dodgers if they didn't pull the trigger.
The LA teams are battling for that market. Acquiring M-cab would be a huge shot across the bow.
Posted by: bsox21 | November 27, 2007 at 12:08 PM
wouldn't Kendrick, Willits, Adenhart, Mathis be the best fit for Fla?
Posted by: maximumpotential | November 27, 2007 at 12:36 PM
the best fit for florida wound be:
Kendrick + Wood + Wilts/Mathis + pitcher (weaver or adenhart)
They then flip uggla for a catcher like Anderson from St louis and a spec. Or a CF from a team in need.
Lineup:
C ???
1B Jacobs
2B Kendrick
SS Hanley/Wood
3B Hanley/Wood
RF Hermida
CF Wilts
LF Willingham
Pretty sick team of talent, sign a vet catcher like loduca to anchor the team and let what you get for uggla (catcher and pitching prospect say) grow some more.
Not sure what Uggla is worth 800+ OPS, 30+ hr 2B that is 4 years from FA.
But I think if florida can get Kendrick + wood + Wilts + pitching prospect they will settle for it.
Posted by: Baseballfan79 | November 27, 2007 at 01:20 PM
if the angels would even think about trading kendrick+wood+willits+pitching prospect, they ask for cabrera and uggla in return. if marlins dont add in uggla there is no way angels trade kendrick and wood plus a pitching prospect on top of that
Posted by: kevperz | November 27, 2007 at 01:31 PM
he asked what the best fit for florida was hence my response there :)
I think that the marlins are going to want either Kendrick + adenhart + wilts + pitcher/catcher
or
kendrick + wood + wilts + picher
They want 4 players back for cabrera alone by all reports something along those packages it seems to be.
I think they would do something like:
Kendrick + wood + adenhart + mathis/conger + wilts for uggla and Cabrera
a 5 for 2 flip fills their needs and fills the angels too.
really it is interesting to see what happens here. Also what SF and LAD jump in with the closer the fish and angels get.
Posted by: Baseballfan79 | November 27, 2007 at 01:36 PM
I sort of hope Weaver is the guy to go to Fla. I would much rather face him for the next 5 years then Adenhart. Santana could be good there too, his stuff is nasty, buthe hasnt put it together yet. Weaver is a nice pitcher but imo he isnt anything special and he certainly is not the kind of guy that is intimidating, like Santana could be.
Posted by: nrmax88 | November 27, 2007 at 01:41 PM
see I dont think it is going to be santana as he is coming up to or started arby this year florida wants those first two years to milk away normally dirt cheap you know?
loria = cheap loser
Posted by: Baseballfan79 | November 27, 2007 at 01:50 PM
Ok, just a forewarning to everyone. About the time this thread is updated with something to the effect of “talks are dead”, you will all hear a loud boom and rumbling noise. Don’t be alarmed though, its not terrorism; it will infact be me laughing my ass off harder than ever ~ being that I live so close to a Navy station, I just figure it might start a small chain reaction…
Their plan-B Tejada at nearly the cost, Hunter, Mathews, an already old Anderson and rapidly getting there Vlad… This is setting itself up to be hilarious!
Posted by: darkstar1661 | November 27, 2007 at 02:07 PM
As an Angels fan, any combination that involves both Wood and Kendrick is a deal breaker.
If the Angels must give up one of them, I think trading Wood serves the Angels better.
If the Marlins don't accept something close to the following trade, I'd move on and trade for Miggy:
Wood + Willits + Mathis + Saunders
However, if the Marlins demand Adenhart, then the Angels should only agree to trade three prospects for Cabrera - and I wouldn't include Mathis:
Wood + Adenhart + Willits
The upside of getting Miggy is that you still get a good bat at a position of need, but you don't have to mortgage the future to do it.
The '08 lineup could look like this:
Figgins - 3b
Kendrick - 2b
Vlad - RF
Hunter - CF
Tejada - SS
Anderson - DH
Mathews - LF
Kotchman - 1B
Napoli/Mathis - C
Not a bad way to go into '08.
Posted by: halofan15 | November 27, 2007 at 02:13 PM
both of them being called "Miggy" gets very confusing...
Anyway, what you dont point out is the fact that although the price wont be as extreme in "prospects", these "prospects" are also pretty much all ML-Ready now and Tejada will just be another “possible slight improvement with more experience” but making tons of cash and blocking another guys spot for atleast 2 years. Sometimes a deal can cost you more in "prospects" then it seems on the surface because the deal ends up blocking other "prospects" from having a place to play. Ie Aybar will never get a shot in your scenario despite being their #3 prospect heading into 2007 (and no, struggling in your first real year as you sit on the bench most of the time is not enough to drop your value that much...)
Posted by: darkstar1661 | November 27, 2007 at 02:49 PM
Kendrick will be certainly in the deal. I would pass on Willits (he has not shown any pop in his bat) and go for Wood and Nick Adenhart. The Marlins can in turn trade Uggla for an outfielder or pitcher (maybe to the Yankees if they part with Cano for Santana). Many of you say that the Marlins will settle for lesser prospects...why would they when they could get a strong offer from the Dodgers. You are trading for a young stud who will be your best player.
In my opinion, Santana cannot pitch on the road and Saunders has not improved from his first season (WHIP and Opp Batting Avg are both up).
Posted by: DRamos | November 27, 2007 at 03:39 PM
Seems to me that the player(s) coming back with Miguel Cabrera are likely to be guys the Marlins don't want. Uggla has value. In other words, a deal of Wood, Saunders, Willits, Mathis, and Adenhart for Cabrera, Olivo and Olsen seems more likely. Olivo isn't out of the Angels price range and can be a backup if necessary; Olsen has burned his bridges in Florida.
Posted by: Devlsh | November 27, 2007 at 03:55 PM
I really hope they can avoid the inclusion of Kendrick.
I don't see why it's such a sticking point. Sure Kendrick will most likely be better than Uggla but Uggla isn't bad at all. That's an upgrade at a position that doesn't need an upgrade.
Sure they can trade Uggla later but that isn't an idea situation. Teams looking for a 2nd baseman will know that the Marlins have to move him. Less leverage = poorer return in a trade.
Wood + Pitcher (any of the 3) + Mathis + Willits is still a great haul for the Marlins.
Posted by: bjsguess | November 27, 2007 at 04:17 PM
I think this may be a dead deal. There was a radio report on the West Coast indicating the Angels are instead going after Justin Morneau for Casey Kotchman and Ervin Santana as they can't agree on a deal with Florida.
Posted by: SactoFan | November 27, 2007 at 04:18 PM
Wow, if your post about Morneau is true, that would be a steal for the Angels. Hard to believe that the Twins would do it, though. I hope so.
As for my earlier post, I don't think trading for Tejada would inhibit the advancement of the Angels prospects. First, Kendrick has a position, and Willits' playing dime was killed by the signing of Hunter. Wood, while he had decent numbers at AAA, still isn't ready for everyday major league pitching. Probably another year away. Aybar could be a part of a trade for Tejada, although I didn't mention it in my earlier posting.
In '09, Anderson will probably not be brought back at $14 million, so the LF position would likely fall to GMJ. The DH could be by committee - VLAD, GMJ, Hunter and Tejada, and Figgins. Wood, if ready can come up and play 3b or SS.
Alot of 'ifs' but the speculating is fun.
Posted by: halofan15 | November 27, 2007 at 05:08 PM
Rotoworld reports that the snag is that the Angels don't want to give both Kendrick and Mathis is the same package as it would leave holes at both 2B and C. Everyone else they are ok with. Makes sense that the Marlins are pushing for package of Kendrick, Wood, Adenhart and Mathis while the Angels want to make it a deal of Kendrick, Wood, Adenhart and Willits. If this is the case, which is what it sounds like, then I'm sure they can work around Mathis being switched for another guy if the Marlins aren't sold on Willits.
Posted by: joegarciajr | November 27, 2007 at 05:21 PM
There is no way that the Angels give up their top 3 young talents in Kendrick, Wood and Adenhart.
Marlins can have Kendrick and others or Wood/Adenhart and others. All 3 - I seriously doubt it.
Posted by: bjsguess | November 27, 2007 at 05:30 PM
Yeah, it does seem to be quite a few “ifs” Halo :)
Plus, I would like to ask what you are planning to do with McPherson and Morales? Your DH “Committee” is quickly looking more like a “Convention”…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | November 27, 2007 at 05:55 PM
You're right, darkstar. It does look like a convention, but it doesn't mean it couldn't work. Again, a lot of 'ifs' and who knows how it will shake out but it will be fun watching.
As for McPherson - I think his time is probably up with the Angels. As for Morales, i'm personally not sold on him - but my opinion doesn't matter the the GM.
Posted by: halofan15 | November 27, 2007 at 06:01 PM
McPherson has hit between OPS+ 94-97 in 3 years of “sit for a week then try to face Santana” type baseball. He of course had the back surgery and missed a year, but last I heard he should be on the opening day roster (or soon after opening day) and if he plays fair on D he could be at 3B in place of bad-fielding Figgins because of the huge, huge power bat he brings. As much as one would think he wouldn’t be in the future plans, the power he brings is so tempting to teams and he will probably be given a shot if he can still field what-so-ever. Think Russell Branyon here, how many jobs has that guy found despite always being horrible and like a wall at 3B...
Morales I agree with, but it doesn’t mean he wont be given atleast some ABs to see if they can capitalize on his “potential”
Then we have Rivera as well… Then we have lesser outside-shot guys like Nathan Haynes and Terry Evens… There are just a butt load of young guys who should be given atleast some ABs and the roster never sees any of them leave in trade, just lots more ageing vets show up. Its gonna be more than interesting! The next couple years rule-5 draft will also probably be a disaster…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | November 27, 2007 at 06:29 PM
We should trade wood. He has no plate coverage and he isn't the Howie Kendrink deal where he shined in the minor leagues. I put Kendrick, Wood, Wilits and Adenhart (or Santana or Saunders.)
Posted by: angels fan | November 27, 2007 at 07:05 PM
Has anyone ever considered the reason the marlins want Hendrick is because they want him to be the CF. Not because they want to trade Uggla. Marlins don't want Wilits for Center feild they already have De Aza who is the same player. The Marlins have been interested in Izturis since the beggining as well.
Posted by: russell | November 28, 2007 at 07:48 AM
wow look at these a year later.
saunders- 17-7, all star pitcher
Ervin Santana- 16-7, also an all star
Howie Kendrick- .306 hitter, good glove
Jeff Mathis- well, great upside
Nick Adenhart- high potential 21 pitcher
Reggie Willits- hard to say with a load angels outfield, Brandon Wood- another great bat, but cant find playing time in the majors
wow. i love andrew miller, and maybin upside. but i wish they could out gotten saunders, willits, santana.
Posted by: marlinsman1120 | October 08, 2008 at 09:29 PM