Cafardo's Latest: Crawford, Haren

For my money, I hope the Sox deal for Haren. While he is nowhere near Santana in talent, this guy is a very good pitcher. I would love him as a #2 behind Beckett. Why do I hope the Red Sox trade for him? He will cost the Red Sox half of what Santana would (in players). I would hate the Sox to dismantle the farm they have built for one player.

While I would be jumping for joy if the Sox add Santana to the rotation, I would hate losing Buchholz, Ellsbury, maybe Lester, and half the farm.

I am not one of these fans who over values allof their team's prospects, but having watched Clay Buchholz a fair amount in the minors, and then up at the ML level, I am convinced that he will be an ace (even in the AL East) sooner than later.

I understand that you have to give up something of value to get something of value. I just hope the Sox see what kind of deals that can make around Lester (who will be very good, but will take a while to develop) before they even discuss Buchholz.

"Theo and the Trio have to be laughing watching the Yankees react."

Couldn't one technically argue the Sox followed the Yankees model with the Beckett trade? Very similar to when the Yankees picked up Javy Vazquez, no?

(And lets leave it at that. I always hated how quickly they gave up on him.)

mr punch, i agree with you that semingly haren would cost less than santana but you have to look at the fact that if you get haren you get him for 3 years and not 1. not to mention the fact that the 3 years of haren will be less than what santana will be making in 09. i obviously know that santana is a better pitcher but teams maybe willing to give up ALOT to have haren who is an ace himself and have him way below market value for the next 3 years.

the last like four points have been agreements with the last posts, i dont know why but thats making me laugh. i agree, i concur, i third that motion hahaha.

On the subject at hand however, I suppose if the athletics didnt want the moon and the stars for haren then the sox should aquire haren. we should avoid santana, atleast until hes a free agent if he makes it there, cause the twins will want a player for every position so we can take him, talk about slave to your own power, he is so good he cant even get off that team

Beckett/Schilling/Haren/Wakefield/Lester = holy shits man!

oooo yeah, what a slip up on my part huh, good im feel like a moron

Beckett/Schilling/Haren/MATSUZAKA/Wakefield

wow, holy holy holy crap man, that is the most impose thing ive ever seen...ever. If Haren comes, you can bet that Lester and a few position players are going

(nice looking out morgan)

haren is basically in a sense Josh Beckett in 06, same kind of situation and skill. As for Bucholz, i still think he would stay, maybe relieve wakefield and matsuzaka when needed and then start everyday in 09, he really isnt ready to be an everyday anyway, still has those chicken wing arms, hes young he will out grow it by eating right and working up i his upper body. if the trade cant be down without him being in it, then that is sad, but i wont lose sleep i dont think. Bucholz is in no way invovled with starting this year now that schilling is, so we can rest him and work him up to be ready next year. If the A's took a 4 player deal involving a pitcher to replace him, two players to start for them (hopefully they would bite on crisp, unless he is going to be used to acquire blalock) and give or take lets say maybe an undeveloped prospect from double a that could be a hit or miss, like we did with the gagne trade. I dont know, besides, you dont know what you are going to get from either guy yet, thats the problem with rookies. we cant kid ourselves, its got everything to do with luck, if you told me 6 years ago David Ortiz would be the most feared dh and one of the most feared period, hitters in the game, i would have pointed and laughed at you, its all a matter of luck. But i would have to say you know more about what you get from haren then you do from bucholz, even though i have a feeling bucholz could be what papelbon could have been, a fantastic starter

i kind of have to stop now, people on this site hate it when i talk about prospects, i get yelled at...

wildo05 - you do realize that the Sox have the 2nd highest payroll in baseball. That almost every one who isn't a Sox or Yankee fan basically lump both clubs into the same category as teams that buy championships.

While the Yankee spending has been out of control - take a look at the Sox. last year they overpaid for Drew and Lugu. They basically signed Dice-K to the one of the top 5 pitching contracts of all time. It was close to a $200m off-season. Only the Cubs committed more money.

Now they are rumored to be offering 3/40 for Lowell (making him the 3rd highest paid 3B in the game). And they are in on trades for Santana and Cabrera because they can afford to sign both to long-term contracts.

So, while Sox fans are quick to jump on the Evil Empire let's not forget that the Boston is right behind them in spending.

whoopes nevermind, i read the rest of the article

For Beane to trade Haren in the same league, the sox would have to give up a ton. Prob more than they're willing to give. My guess is he'd ask for Ellsbury, Bucholz, and Pedroia. Then give the option of Lester and a risk/reward double A guy as mentioned in an earlier post. I don't see the redsox giving that up just to get Haren.

Instead I see the A's hanging on to Haren, and trading Blanton for a SS and SP. Maybe Brent Lillibridge and Jair Jurrjens from the Braves.

ps - before i get jumped, there was more then one guy in the beckett lowell trade, i know this, but Rameriz and MAYBE Aramis were the only real gems of that deal coming from us, there werent 4 or even five gems in that deal

The Red Sox unlike like the Yankees don't have enough big pitching Prospects to shop around and keep for the future.All they have is Clay and Lester that are big names and even Lester sucks.Haul in your nuts Red Sox winters coming.

what are you talking about, we have plenty of pitching prospects to shop, you have only read about the untouchables, of course, because your not a red sox fan. there is Lester (for the right deal), David Pauley, Devern Hansack, Abe Alvarez, Travis Hughes, Justin Masterson, Mike Bowden, Josh Papelbon, Creg Breslow, Bryan Corey and even Edgar Martinez.

we have PLENTY of talent, dont go on worrying about us red sox, we are more then ok

You're just listing names, 04. Bryan Corey is 34 friggin' years old and basically useless.

Hughes,Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy and Bentances are Blue chip pitching Prospects beyond anything the Red Sox have.Anything the Red Sox have too package the Yankees will outbid them if there giving up Ian Kennedy.The Red Sox aren't giving up Clay,or Ellsbury or Dustin.Just the Mets unless Reyes is involved no one wants what they got.

Personally I hope the Cubs don't give up Marmol for Carl Crawford. Carlos Marmol is a really good young pitcher that will likely become a very good closer. Rich Hill will already be 28 next season and while he is a very good 3 starter, i think he is more expendable. Something like a Rich Hill, Kevin Hart, Eric Patterson, and maybe another solid prospect should be enough.

Ian Kennedy sucks. He was pretty good last year against some weak lineups in a tiny sample size, but if you watch him pitch its you are thinking the same thing you think when you watch Paul Byrd pitch- that is "I wish I could pick up a bat and hit against this guy, because I think I could actually get a hit." His stuff is unbelievably mediocre and its not going to cut it in the AL east. I think AL teams will enjoy teeing off against Kennedy. The Red Sox actually have better pitching prospects than the Yankees. Bucholz is a top 5 prospect heading into next year, Lester is still thought of very highly, Masterson came out of nowhere and they think his stuff is good, and Bowden is young but developing very quickly into a good pitcher.

First off Buckholz might be a Top 5 prospect but so was Hughes so if anything tha tis a wash, Lester was never ranked as high as Joba was in any sort of rankings. And I am not sure where you are getting your info on Masterson but he went a combined 12-8, atleast Kennedy went 12-3 in the minors last year. Also he went 1-0 in the majors with a 1.89 ERA

But if you ever watched kennedy pitch in the majors it looked like he was afraid to throw a strike. Plus he only has two pitches he can depend on...where Lester has three pitches he can throw at anytime for strikes. I guess you didnt see him pitch game 4 of the world series as the Sox won ANOTHER title while the Stankees were at home.

Joba is good but he hasnt done anything yet..lets not send him to the hall of fame just yet.

Why does everything have to be in such absolutes? Ian Kennedy does not suck. Ian Kennedy is not an uber-prospect. Ian Kennedy is not a 5th starter at best. Ian Kennedy is not on the same level as a Buchholz. He's just a good, B level prospect. He will never make the Hall but he will spend plenty of years in the major leagues (assuming no massive injuries).

Every player doesn't have to be super awesome or fucking terrible, some guys are just good/average.

From my perpective, and I admittedly only saw him pitch 2 times, Ian Kennedy looks like a Kason Gabbard. A reasonable bottom of the rotation guy. Even those are valuable these days when they are paid league minimum. I would be shocked if the guy ever posts an ERA under 4 in the American League. To me, when people lump Kennedy in with Joba and Hughes, they are doing Joba and Hughes a disservice. Those guys are light years above Kennedy. So is Buchholz. Lester will ultimately be better than Kennedy (I think), but the difference isn't huge right now, though he looked pretty good in the World Series.

"Lester was never ranked as high as Joba was in any sort of rankings" - True, but he was ranked 17 places higher than Phillip Hughes in the 2006 top 50 prosects. He's got the stuff. He is still learning how to use it. We'll see how he develops.

never mind that "super fan" comment can easily relate to you to

For what its worth, I don't pay a ton of attention to rankings either. I only mentioned them because someone else did.

Though, it is worth noting that in those same rankings (baseball america 2006 top 100), the ETA on both Hughes and Lester was 2007, so, in theory, they were equally far away from fulfilling their potential (at that time).

www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/060223top100c.html

Obviously, they are now on different paths, though neither will be aces next year.

Wow. Them fightn words!

yeah retire21, i cant wait to watch the world champion starting rotation of BOTH veterans and rookies "burn" next your...what are you high?

so far the yankee rotation is Wang(nothing bad there)/Mussina(whom did REALLY suck last year, and your paying through the teeth for him)/Chamberlain(whom has never even started a mlb game...ever)/Hughes(blow up like a time bomb because he was rushed)/Kennedy(i cant even put him into friggen words he is so over rated)

atleast our team has ACTUAL starters