Francisco Cordero Now A Red

My condolences, Reds fans. Not that Cordero isn't a top reliever, but its just an awful use of resources.

Now is where they should trade for Josh Towers: cheap NL starter.

It helps them...but its a lot of money.

That's terrible. They need starters more than anything and to blow 40+ like that...

I think the twins are one more pretty good starter away from contending.

I like a lineup of

CF Hopper
LF Hamilton
2B Phillips
1B Dunn
RF Griffey
3B Edwin
SS Keppinger
C ?

This helps the bullpen a lot for them, even though its a lot of money. If Bailey figures it out, he, Arroyo and Harang make a decent top 3. There is no true ace, but not many teams have one, and this is the NL Central. The Reds almost won this division in 2006.

Harang is a true ace. If he was on any other club he would have won a cy young in 06.

Not sure I understand the logic on this one... Not only is Cordero not worth that kind of money, but the Reds are a long ways off to contending without landing some starting pitching. I guess that's the plan, since signing a closer for big money usually means many more things to come..

2006 Blue Jays.. Sign BJ Ryan right off the bat as the first FA signing.. You know what came next and so on.

"It helps them...but its a lot of money."

Youre right, but sometimes you have to do that. It just shows other agents and players that you are willing to spend money to try to win. The mets did it with PEdro and the Tigers with Pudge and the Royals now with Meche etc. Speaking of Meche, that deal is looking pretty nice right about now. 4/44 of so seems liek a bargain for what guys like Silva and Lohse will get.

They should probably be shopping one of Griffey/Dunn/Freel for a pitcher, and they might not be that bad.

I kind of agree muggerd. Harang is awesome. Especially in that park. I dont know though, I wouldnt say he is an "ace". Still a great pitcher.

What looks like an even bigger bargain is what started all that.. AJ Burnett's contract was laughed at enormously.. Even though he's been limited to about 23 starts in each of his 2 seasons in toronto, he's been nothing but a bargain compared to some of these contracts being doled out.. Burnett at 12 mill?? Looks good to everyone now..

I know HArang is great and he pitches in the little league field, but he still has never had an ERA better then 3.73, so I am not comfortable calling him an ace. He is a hell of a pitcher who eats innings and keeps you in the game though.

Homer Bailey has took steps backwards... He's got to learn command before you can start penciling him in as a good MLB starter.

"2006 Blue Jays.. Sign BJ Ryan right off the bat as the first FA signing.. You know what came next and so on."

well BJ Ryan was well worth his money the first season. Yes he got hurt in his 2nd season but that can happen to any pitcher. Not to mention the jays coming into next season likely have the best BP in the majors.

Homer Bailey was injured last year. When healthy he was pretty good for a guy just out of the minors.

No doubt. I wasn't saying anything bad about the Ryan signing.. I'm saying signing a closer like that usually means more things to come.. As was the case for the Jays..

they signed Ryan, everyone was confused about it.. Then came Burnett, Overbay and Glaus.. Then Molina aswell..

Just saying, this usually means the Reds plan on making more moves because there is no way you dish out this kind of money on a closer without adding more to a last place team willing to contend.

muggerd, you have it all wrong. Harang is probably my favorite pitcher that isnt a Met. This dude has been on my fantasy team for 3 years in a row and been phenominal. All I am saying is that I wouldnt call him an ace. Too me, an ace is a Santana, or Smoltz, or Peavy, or PEdro 5 years ago. I only consider there to be like 4 or 5 aces in baseball. I am not trying to hate on Harang or anything like that.

I agree. Cordero is far from being a lock.. Just a little while ago, he was pulled from the closers role in Texas cuz he was crap and traded off to the Brewers..

Being in Cinncy could mean worse things for Coco so I don't see this deal working out to well..

It costed Bourn to get a closer like Lidge (better than Cordero, let's be honest here).. It costs the Reds insane amount of money to get Coco Cordero.. Reds could of gotten Lidge for Freel or something... Instead they spend over 10mill per on an up and down closer...

Well if thats what you consider an Ace i wont disagree. I guess its all how you think of it.

Peavy yes is very good but you would have to put Harang in the class of Penny and Webb for the NL.

Just a hypothetical, but could the Reds land Santana with Bruce as a centerpiece? If so, could they afford him? Its just interesting that the Reds usually are linked to needing pitching, and the twins want first and foremost a stud outfielder if they shop Santana. Its surprising they havent been linked much to him.

Cordero brings stability to the 9th inning for Cinci, which they didnt have. Sometimes when you have non closers pitching in the 9th, he struggles and everything kind of snowballs. When you have a true closer and let everybody move up an inning, things can fall into place. It is easier finding a guy to pitch the 7th or 8th then the 9th. They might have overpaid a bit, but you have to do what you have to do to get your guy, I like it.

Peavy
Oswalt
Carpenter
Zambrano
Smoltz
Sheets
Penny
Cain
Webb

All better than Harang

Peavy-yeas
Oswalt-yes
Carpenter-hurt to much-no
Zambrano-cant beat Harang-no
Smoltz-to old-no
Sheets-hurt to much-no
Penny-not as good-no
Cain-not as proven-no
Webb-yes
Harang #4 best pitcher
Harang #3 best year
In the NL of Course

Age has no bearing on this discussion.

1-Peavy plus PETCO
2-Webb
3-Oswalt
4-Harang

Good one BrewCrew. Just don't blow it this year.

Someone inform me on how the Brewers improved this offseason so far?

The Brewers really don't need to make any improvements other than their bullpen. We signed Kendall, which in my opinion is a better catcher than Estrada and doesn't come with a bunch of baggage. Look at the Packers this year. They signed no free agents and they are a much better team because of experience and chemistry. I see the same kind of thing with the Brewers. The Brewers will make one or two more relief signings and that all. We need to save out money to offer Hardy, Braun, Hart, Fielder, and Gallardo contracts when their rookie contracts are up.

Maybe if the Brewers didnt add Motas contract they could have offered 1 extra million a year.

I don't think that would have mattered. We still don't know if Cordero even gave the Brewers a chance to match the offer the Reds made. We will have to see but I don't think Mota's contract has anything to do with it.

We all know how good aging pitchers do in the MLB.

The Reds definitly need to make some more moves first. One player doesnt make a team but a few more might.

But look at his 0.00 ERA on turf.

Joe according to fox sports a deal is almost done for Miguel Cabrera and is pending on one player Nick Adenhart

Reds fans, see how long your pitchers hold up when Baker has them throwing 130+ pitches every game.

Any chance of the DBacks getting Capuano for one of Cruz, Valverde or Lyon?

All three are pretty solid out of the pen. Cruz & Lyon have 1 year of control left and ergo are worth less than Valverde who has two (and had a great year).

With the price of closers this offseason, who knows.

BrewCrew, the Brewers were outbidded by the Reds for Cordero, the Sox for Linebrink. They will probably be outbidded by the Yankees for Percival. Even then, you think the answer to the Brewers problems is a guy who retired in 2004, came back from surgery and pitched half a season last year? Good luck with that! Yes, trade Capuano right away. He's terrible... or at least he might be halfway decent if the Brewers didn't have the worse IF defense in the entire MLB.

Tmar, there is no reason for the D-Backs to trade either of those guys. First of all, they don't need a terrible SP like Capuano. The formula they had in place last year worked and without Lyon, Cruz, Pena, or Valverde, no playoffs for them at all. They could get some actual prospects for Valverde, his value is really high.

angels fan, i would like a link please...

It's not close to a done deal, but it sounds like they are in pretty intensive negotiations.

http://msn.foxsports.com/rumors/mlb#1

Report: Angels favorites to land Marlins Cabrera

When the Los Angeles Angels agreed to sign free agent center fielder Torii Hunter to a five-year deal worth $90 million late Wednesday, it might have set the stage for another major acquisition: Miguel Cabrera. ''I think it's an indication that they're going [to make a deal],'' one baseball insider said Thursday of a rumored deal that would have the Marlins sending Cabrera to the Angels for a collection of prospects. Signing Hunter, which hinges on his passing a physical, gives the Angels more outfielders than they can possibly use. One of those, rookie Reggie Willits, could be included in a package of players to obtain Cabrera, who would sweeten the Angels' power-anemic lineup. Although the Los Angeles Dodgers, San Francisco Giants, Chicago White Sox and Cleveland Indians have expressed an interest in Cabrera, the Angels are believed to have the edge on the four-time All-Star third baseman. Along with Willits, who would plug one need for the Marlins -- a center fielder -- the Angels also would likely give up second baseman Howie Kendrick and catcher Jeff Mathis. A source said the biggest sticking point to completing a deal at this point is whether the Angels also would throw in a fourth player: pitching prospect Nick Adenhart. -- Miami Herald

Random question:

What would it take for the Yanks to land Hamilton?

Bout time we see Cleveland name in the Cabrera sweepstakes... I seriously hope they dont win it as I dont see giving up tons for a soon-to-be 1B with a gigantic contract ~ but I knew we had to atleast be pondering it in a short-term capacity...

Braves, Figgins really, really shouldn’t be expected to provide good D at SS. His 2B numbers are really bad and even his 3B D is below average ~ where 3B is much easier to play than Short. A bunch of people automatically throw his name in there as a possibility, but if you really look into it ~ it’s a bad idea… I say he's dealt unless they figure Cabrera might need to switch to first sooner than later...

And what the heck is going on in this thread? People are seriously bashing Brewers fans because they *didn’t* overpay for relievers who might not be worth a darn within 2 years? I say good for them, production for the pen can be found in much better ways then tossing millions upon millions to the “names”. When all is said and done, their BP could end up being much better then anyone’s in the Central ~ they are just too much of a crap-shoot to predict from year to year and the shelf-life dictates big/long contracts are a mistake…

I mean seriously, how many big BP contracts haven’t blown up in the face of the signing team (outside of the super-closers like Hoffman and Rivera of course…)

Trevor

I wonder if Dave Bush would be better suited for the pen, where he can throw harder and his command might be more useful. He was a closer in college, after all.

I actually really like this move for the Reds. I would consider the BP to have been their biggest weakness last year, and they showed the fans that they want to win by signing the best closer available. Yes, they overpaid by a bit, but we all knew he was goingt to get more than 10 mil a year. They still need another reliable BP arm and another starter would be nice. Still, you have to admit. They are showing the fans that they are willing to do what it takes to try and compete, and I think thats important.

I am trilled by the move. I live in Wisconsin and Watched a lot of games that Cordero closed. I have been a Reds fan since 1988 and This move totally excites me about next season. I agree the Reds still need one decent BP guy and one more decent starter. I think the starter will come from a trade of one of the Reds Prospects. I am not sold on Ecarnocian so I say trade him. Sure he has potential but still has not really shown anything great yet. Maybe send him and Freel and a semi good prospect for a starter that can pitch 6 or 7 solid innings. If the Reds got Santana I think I would have to pick them as the winner of the NL Central barring any injuries to the pitching staff. (Insert garuntee from cubs fans that Baker will ruin the staff here) I disagree. Harang and Arroyo have both pitched a ton of innings that past two years already. They are used to the heavy workload. I am not sold on Bailey yet either. He has not really done anything to impress me at the major league level. Cueto seems better and he has not been to the majors. Actually correction Cueto seems more consistant overall. I have to say I love this move and I hope Cordero makes Brewcrew eat his harsh words about overpaying for a closer. Wait 11.5 million a year for the guy with the 2nd most saves in the NL in 2007 seems kinda dumb to compare that

"TrueCubsFan, the brewers dont need Starting Pitching. They have the deepest depth in the majors. They have at least 8 starters. Sheets, Gallarado, Villaneova, Suppan, Capuano, Vargas, Bush, Parra."

I love comments like that. You value quantity over quality. First of all, Sheets counts as half of pitcher so that's 7 1/2. Starting pitchers have to do this crazy thing like hold down their rotation spot so that takes out Capuano and Vargas, so down to 5 1/2. Parra looked really good in his last start (and second MLB ever) of the year vs. the Cubs... down to 4 1/2.

So we have Suppan, Bush, Villanueva, and Gallardo left. Suppan's 2007 line was 4.62/1.50/.298 while Bush was 5.12/1.40/.291. Gallardo is a pure prospect, probably will be a No. 2 in the league for a long time and Villanueva showed great promise for 2008. While Sheets, Gallardo, and Villanueva provide some hope for 2008, the other five guys are No. 5 starter terrority. No wonder the Brew Crew finished 15th overall in ERA. Got any other wisdom?

Cordero might not be a shut down closer, but he was one of the best closers for awhile last year, came back to earth, but never "Turnbow'd" if I may use that as a verb. Part of this regression may have been NL Central teams catching up to him, so I think the Reds are paying for the second half guy, not the first. Either way, its a huge loss to the Brewers and a huge upgrade for the Reds, who should piece together a solid bullpen trading a prospect for a proven 7th/8th inning guy. I'd bet on them finishing 4th though, ahead of pittsburgh and Houston-baseball fans shouldn't capitalize the former anymore...-though for them to catch up on St Louis is a stretch.

As a Cubs fan, I think this deal really hurts the Brewers, who now lose Cordero and Linebrink and have a terrible bullpen. Villeneuva has to be in the rotation since Sheets will never be healthy a full season, and Turnbow is now synonymous with blowing up midseason. Their pitching staff wasn't good last year, and I doubt Bush will ever come back to a solid #3 guy.

Of their rookies phenoms, I expect Braun to keep up his offense with a slight regression, Fielder to come down to earth with a commendable 40 HR, 120 RBI season, and Hardy to hit a sophomore slump as he did midway last year when the power numbers fell off (not sure on slugging, but HRs came in the first couple months). This means that Weeks and Hall will have to really produce, and that outfield doesn't have the most pop in it already. Weeks will return to his career BA of .250, which will help, but Hall won't have another 30HR season. Either way, the Brewers have to bank on the Cubs getting a good deal worse, and unless no right fielder comes along and Wood proves irreplaceable, the Brewers will again lose the division.

there are a ton of Johan Santana articles to read.

Ok Reply time.

First Not Joe Morgan.
If you don't think saves are important then look at his overall ERA of under 3.00. Last time I checked league average for pitchers ERA was over 4.00. Also Cordero gets more strikeouts than Weathers probably ever will. You are not looking at the upgrade this makes for the Reds staff. The 7th and 8th inning which was a disaster for the Reds last year is now controlled by 2 pretty good pitchers based on stats from last season.

To Cubs world Champs...
You must be dreaming the Cubs have not been world champs in wow it seems like a millenia. Anyway Here is my idea for getting Santana. Send Eddie E. , Ryan Freel or Hamilton, One good pitching prospect which you probably don't think the Reds have but they have a couple in AA, and one of our many good shortstop prospects and I think that might get it done. Their might be a pitcher thrown in there too.

Now you might say wow that is a lot of players to give up. The Reds then let Keppinger play 3rd, sure he is not a power threat put he is a good BA and OBP guy which the Reds need for all those heavy hitters. Keppinger's defense is probably average but it would be an improvement on defense since Eddie E. is not the greatest defensive person out there.

One other note Krivsky has a good relationship with the Twins Managment and that might help some. Krivsky has pulled out some major gems in the past and I would not put it past him to get creative to get it done. aka Brandon Phillips, Arroyo and a few others. (sure he has flopped a few too but every GM has)

Last Cubbieintexas
I don't see how the Reds suck. They almost came back into it in August and early Sept. until injuries piled so high that the team looked like a AAA team by the end that could only win like 2 games when they didn't have Dunn, Griffey, Hamilton, Gonzales, Freel, Hatteberg. I think like only 2 opening day starters played most of the last few weeks of the season.

ps. When was the last time the Cubs won the World series so if you want to talk about sucking you should think before you say a team sucks.