Heyman: Twins Only Offered Santana Four Years

What about Scott Baker?

I had Baker on my original list, but was dissuaded of his long-term effectiveness by an insider.

But yeah, if you want to swap Bonser and Baker, be my guest. Same point stands.

Shocking to see these reports on what has been offered by the Twins and asked for by Santana wrong.

Funny Heyman doesn't mention any of his sources. I doubt he's right either. Both the GM and the players agent didn't comment on it.

I can't wait until Santana is either signed or traded.

AUTHOR: Jen
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DATE: 11/23/2007 2:12:00 PM

The reports I'm reading say it was $93M and for 5 years. But that includes 2008 (for which he is owed about $13M). That makes the offer $20M per year average over the remaining life. Decent money for the Twins to offer and maybe offering that money for another year or two would do it. However, I understand that the sides have agreed that exploring trade possibilities is next on the docket. Let the craziness on the coasts ensue.

No thanks. Fist of all, Chacin?? He isn't worth anything..

Secondly, the Jays don't have that kind of free money available and in no way would they be able to lock Santana down. We would basically lose Burnett next year and Mcgowan who could be an ace as soon as next year..

If the Jays were to get in the mix, which they absolutely won't, it would take something like Lind, McGowan, Snider and probably Jannsen or Accardo..
No way I do that, and no way Ricciardi would ever do that either.

McGowan is in Toronto to stay and thank god!

The Jays need to fill holes at SS and C.. That's pretty much it though.. If they're healthy, the Jays offense will do more than surprise.. They're built to hit like crazy.

and the Jays rotation could be one of the best regardless.. They were in the 2nd half of last year.

McGowan is more than a "nice" pitcher...

But ya, everything else I agree with.

As much as Ricciardi's getting ridiculed for staying put, he's right in doing that.. Health is all the Jays need to contend, and blowing up their team, especially with all their youth starting to blossom, would be just plain stupid.

I see the Santana race between Boston and New York, and who would Minnesota like more, Crisp and Buchholz or Cabrera and Hughes. Boston would prefer trading Lester and Crisp, but If I were Boston's GM I would be hesitant getting the best pitcher in baseball, mainly because Fenway Park is not a southpaw friendly park, and even Santana's ERA will go up pitching regularly at Fenway. I can see Minnesota holding up for top three prospects and see which team will go for the bait.

That could be the best 1-2 combo since, coincedentally, Johnson-Schilling. I think it would cost them Upton though.

I have him going to the Dodgers. Would Kemp, Kershaw, LaRoche do the job? I would think so, but I wouldn't do it if I was Colletti. Then again, I'm not him, so we'll see.

I think that the Angels get Miggy and the Dodgers get Santana. The Angels have the pitching and youngsters to spare that the Marlins want. If they get Cabrera, they spring to the top of many predictions lists. The Dodgers have the power bats the Twins need, plus Kershaw. They also have Broxton, McDonald and/or Billingsly if that's better for both sides.

I don't know why everyone thinks the Twins are looking for a high end pitcher and a mid range outfielder. Everything I've seen, and common sense, suggests they're main priority is to restock with bats. Melky and Coco both play good CF, but neither is a stud, nor are they particularly productive hitters.

I'm sure the Twins would prefer to look at LA and get Kemp and Kershaw. If the Sox want to part with Ellsbury and Buccholz that would probably be about as good. Same with the Yanks if they want to part with both Cano and Hughes.

But if the choice is between the stud pitcher fronted package of the Yanks and Red Sox (without Ellsbury or Cano) and the stud Outfielder fronted package of the Mets, I don't think you automatically tip your hat to the Yanks and Sox.

In fact the Twins might favor the Mets in this case, where they can get two big Outfield prospects and two of the Mets farm pitchers. Granted Pelfrey, Humber, and Mulvey aren't Buccholz or Hughes, but Coco and Melky aren't Lastings Milledge, and he's supposedly not even the Mets OF the Twins are most interested in (Gomez).

The Mets pitchers still have pretty good value and would go straight into ST competing with Baker and Perkins for a spot in the 2008 rotation.

I know the popular notion is to be down on the Mets farm because it lacks a big ticket pitcher, but I don't see how a package of Milledge, Gomez, Pelfrey, and Mulvey isn't at least as appealing to the Twins (if not moreso) than a 3-4 player package fronted by a big pitching prospect (Hughes/Buccholz) and then a mediocre Outfielder (Melky/Coco) and a mid range pitching prospect (Kennedy/Lester) or two (and when I say midrange I don't mean midrange in an overall way, but midrange for what the Twins would consider as the 3rd or 4th piece for Santana).

"I don't think Santana will go to either team personally. The D'Backs, Dodgers and even the Angels could make a play for him that I think would be more appealing."

Those three clubs certainly could put together much better packages than any of the teams on the East Coast. But I doubt the D'Backs get involved for fiscal reasons, and that's if he'd accept a trade there in the first place. The Angels and Dodgers could be players, but the Dodgers should probably focus on a bat first, and the Angels might want to do the same. Obviously if Cabrera moves, it'll open the door for one of these teams to make a move elsewhere. The Angels probably make the most sense since they've already upgraded their offense, and could theoretically acquire Santana and maybe have enough left for Tejeda. But just going all in on Miggy might be a better value for them.

I also see the Dodgers having hesitation to move Kershaw, especially if they're also moving 2-3 other big names in the deal. Although you never know with Coletti.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7480854

Cordero to Reds for 4/46, apparently. Not a good couple of days for the Brewers.

I'll agree with you 100% bobo, but I'm not sure the Sox or Yanks would offer both of those players. They might, and the only way ANYONE could trump it would be the Dodgers with Kemp/Kershaw.

I think the only way the Sox/Yanks make that kind of offer is if they get into a serious bidding war over him. I'd say its about 50/50 that it happens or that one of the teams shies away at the price, in which case the other would think more about its own needs than trumping the other and would have to balk at a package that big. If the Sox balk first, I'd say the Yanks are more likely to pull the trigger anyway (with Hal and Hank turning the proverbial dual key's). If the Yanks balk first, the Sox would be more likely to then shy away.

I think compared to the Mets, the feeling is that there is little doubt that the players from the Sox/Yankees will be successful. Nobody doubts the status of Gomez as a prospect, and of course he has a ton of potential, but it's far from clear that he'll be a star. I know Ellsbury doesn't have more experience, but I just get a better feeling from talking to people that the general Consensus is that it will be a great disappointment if he fails. Obviously Cano has little else to prove as well.

Hughes/Bucholz vs. Pelfrey is a no-brainers as well. I have doubts if Pelfrey can ever be anything more than a setup man based on his struggles so far.

The Twins are best off going for players who are as close to sure-things as possible.

Sure, the Mets could try to blow them away with quantity, but I still think it's better to get the other guys.

I hope they do trade him !

Imagine what it would do to the Twins as an organization if they finish third next year, lose Santana, and only get two draft picks ?

I like the move to the Dodgers, but mostly, i just hope they don't screw this up.

they will trade him. there is no question about. For instance if Santana was a free agent this year and signed with Dodgers the twins wouldn't even get a first round pick because its protected! The Twins cant afford for this hypothetical to happen next off-season if they kept him.

I find it funny that Bosox and Yank fans think it will take 2 of Hughes/Melky or Ellsbury/Bucholz, etc... And have even Crisp as a name in the trade..

Every indication says it will most likely take 2 elite prospects PLUS 1 or maybe even 2 lesser but still very solid MLB talent players (such as Cano).

Santana is worth a boatload, and if Miggy Cabrera gets along the lines of Kershaw (who's quite possibly the best pitching prospect in the game), Kemp, Laroche and more, then the Yanks and Bosox will have to pay wayyy more than their fans think they will.

Wait, Cano is "lesser"? Who are the elite offensive prospects again? LaRoche?

I'd agree that Cabrera is a"lesser but still very solid MLB talent player" [sic].

But Cano? He's a centerpiece to the trade. He may be the most valuable player even discussed (Santana included), all things considered.

1. I'm pretty sure Cano would be a major piece. He's not a 3rd or a 4th piece. He's a productive 2B who could be a good RBI man a solid defender in the near future and many years after. Melky would not. He should be a 4th OF.

2. Obviously two players isn't going to do it anywhere. But Buccholz+Ellsbury+1 or 2 more players would be one of the best offers the Twins could possibly hope for. That's coming from a Mets fan who concedes if the Twins get that offer, the Mets are out of the running.

I'd take Kemp and Kershaw over Bucholz and Ellsbury any freaking day of the week BTW..

Kershaw alone is going to own.. There isn't a pitching prospect I'd probably take over him. Absolutely dynamite lefty who's what? 20 right now? 140 K's in 90 innings in AA at 19 years old? hmm

Angels: They're focused on Miggy I think. Not pitching.

Yanks: I have no idea who's running the show. If it's Cashman and he's still sane, I think he balks at Cano + Hughes/Joba. Not because it's too much, but because of depth.

The Yankees have 2 elite pitching prospects (arguably, 2 out of the top 5 in the league: Buchholz, Joba, Hughes, Gallardo, Lincecum), but after that it's downhill.

Betances is still a ways off, Horne is a mystery, Sanchez is 50/50 between starter and pen, and Clippard/Karstens/Wright are at best 4/5 starters in the AL (They should really be traded to the NL for some young bats).

So I think that's the reason why Cashman balks at trading Kennedy/Joba/Hughes. The depth is there, but it's still 2 years off from showing itself.

Same thing with Cano. He's the only

Red Sox: They never like handing out big deals (see Beckett, Josh) even for elite performers, but Santana can always be the exception I guess. I dont know if Epstein can stomach losing Ellsbury, Buchholz and Lowrie (which I think is what it will take at the least).

Dodgers: They seem to hate their kids. I have no idea why. If I were in charge of the Twins, I'd call up Colletti and say: You get Santana and a 72 hour negotiating window. We get Kemp, Kershaw, a shortstop, and LaRoche.

Kemp hits cleanup, Kershaw plugs in as #1/#2 in a year or two (assuming he pans out), LaRoche at 3rd etc.

I still don't get why the Dodgers are so keen on trading Kemp, but whatever.

Or if the Diamondbacks can pay, same terms but with Young, Reynolds, Callaspo, Gonzalez? Dunno if that's too much. Two OFs, 3B and MI.

Kershaw is top 5, if not #1

I think your probably right. The only way Omar can really get in the mix is if:

1. The Yankees don't want to give up Cano and Hughes+.

2. The Red Sox don't want to move Ellsbury and Buccholz+.

3. The Dodgers don't want to give up Kemp and Kershaw+.

Those are all possibilities, but all powder kegs too. Any time you get the Yanks and Sox in it could be a time bomb. And Coletti's just a powderkeg himself.

There is a chance that these teams shy away though, at least to lesser packages. The Mets can compete with a package like, say, Hughes, Melky, Kennedy, and Tabata. I also think Omar knows his job is on the line to some degree, and that the Mets need a front of the rotation pitcher to compete in 2008. It may not be Santana, but he's going to do everything he can to get one, or his future as Mets GM for the Citifield opening could be Jeopardy.

The DBacks would have to unload about 10Mil to pay even this year's portion of Santana's salary.

If they extended him he'd take up 25% or more of their entire budget. Way to risky for a small budget club.

I do think we'd be an awesome match for a 3-way with any team looking to convert cheap, solid pitching into a Santana deal via our position players.

I can't see any way the Yankees would make that trade. They'd be worse in 2008 because of it, adding $12M to the payroll, and they'd be trading nearly all of their young established players. Finally, Jackson is seen as a potential replacement for Cabrera if he's traded. They're high on Brett Gardner as well, but neither is ready yet. Plus with his winter ball showing, Jackson is really moving up prospect lists. They're dying to see what he's going to do next season.

Honestly, I wouldn't part with just Cano and Hughes. I think that, in a vacuum, the Twins would be happy with that, and they'll try to play teams against each other to get more.

"I hope the Yanks stand pat on Santana. They really should trade Melky, Clippard, Karstens, Wright, Garcia to NL teams for a young IF hitting prospect or two." -henrytheking

I hear you bud, but honestly you can't expect that the Yankees will stand down on this one. Given our recent... uh "splurging" on A-rod, it seems clear (to me anyhow) that the Yanks intend to make a push at the world series this year. If we're going to do that we need an ace, a rather good one to boot. Santana not only fills that roll, but he does it with splash -- fodder for the papers and all.

Cano and Hughes will be the meat of any trade package I imagine. I'm less sure we'll need to give up Melky, and after those three -- well I have no idea... prolly at least 1 more prospect tho.

Latest Johan Sanatana ARticles.

"One major league star, multiple prospects and a seven-year, $140 million contract.

That's all it will take to add Johan Santana at the Twins' current price — and the likely price for a starting pitcher of his caliber.
The Twins, rival executives say, want at least one big-name major leaguer for Santana, a player such as the Mets' Jose Reyes or Yankees' Robinson Cano.

Santana, meanwhile, likely will veto any trade agreement unless he is signed long-term as a condition of the deal, according to a source with knowledge of his thinking. The pitcher holds a full no-trade clause, and it is "highly unlikely" he would approve a deal if he remained signed only through next season, the source says."

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7480346

Someone close to Santana said he would be willing to waive the clause to go to a winning club. The friend said Santana would be open to playing for either the Yankees or Mets. Changing leagues would not be a problem, the friend said.

"One source said the Yankees plan to make a "good, strong offer" and that they believe they have more to offer the Twins in a trade than anybody else does...The Yankees and Mets are among the clubs that could manage both sides of the equation, and both plan to push hard to get Santana -- along with perhaps the Red Sox, Dodgers and Angels"

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spyanks1124,0,5961517.story

"The Twins want at least three premium young players for Santana, and they hope to address their gaping holes at third base or center field."

http://www.startribune.com/twins/story/1570285.html

"Meanwhile, the Twins appear willing to trade Johan Santana, Joe Nathan and Matt Garza to acquire a third baseman and center fielder"

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/roch/blog/2007/11/hold_that_gary_matthews_reunion.html