White Sox Not Interested In Prior

Our rotation seems to be set. Seems KW is real high on Floyd. I guess we will wait and see how he pans out, but he did have a lights out september last season.

No surprise, they need hitters not pitchers and with a $115+ payroll already I wouldn’t think they would be adding even more onto it for a non-need…

You should probably count the Red Sox out, the price will get too high with the amount of suitors out there, and they have no need for someone like Prior when they have Buchholz and Lester waiting in the wings for someone to break down in the rotation. The only way I could see the Sox getting him is if they acquire Johan and give up Lester or Buchholz and the price is right. However, if he's willing to make his decision in the near future, and the Johan deal not close to being done, I can't see the Sox being a serious suitor.

They should just get some prospects for Crede. He might have the best season of his career next year but he just doesn't fit anymore.

I still think Floyd will be decent. If he doesn't, there are fallbacks.

Crede just doesn't fit anymore???

Stellar defense, clutch bat...yeah you're right we don't need that on the Sox. I know I'd feel much better with with Fields' sh*tty defense and 150 Ks at third instead.

MIght as well just DFA his ass right. Yeah.

Idiots.

No, he doesn't fit anymore. He spited the Sox completely by not doing the surgery last offseason, when he would have been ready by Spring Training, but no! So he had it in the middle of the season instead after putting up Punto like numbers for the first two months. Fields got his chance and showed great power, and likely a 35, maybe 40 plus home run threat for next season and the future. Crede's time in Chicago is up. I think they will wait until Spring Training when he proves he is healthy to play well. Love you Joe, for all you've done, but you no longer have a third base job here, unless Fields gets dealt, which I doubt.

“i agree darkstar but do u think they shud get ride or crede?? and if so for wat?”

...As an Indians fan ~ yeah, I hope they trade him for some failed prospect they want to take a chance on.

…In a realistic baseball sense, no ~ you don’t trade him unless you can actually get a hitter in a similar situation or with some real upside back. When you need hitters, you just don’t look to unload them!

I’m one who got destroyed at the trade deadline because I was telling everyone that the ChiSox should be trading guys like Dye/Garland/Thome/AJ/etc for all the solid prospects they could get. KW seems to think he can compete though, so under that mindstate…

Well, we know that Chi doesn’t really need/want Crede. We also know that Fields can play LF as well though. I would maybe contact StL and see if they might be interested in something involving Rolen honestly. (FYI ~ deal would also probably include throwins from both sides, not thinking it through to that extent yet though because its just an idea…) Rolen can play 3B most of the time, maybe spending a few games at DH/1B spelling Thome/Paully when they take their normal 40ish combined games off. If Thome gets hurt (very likely) then Rolen covers DH almost exclusively. If Rolen gets hurt (also possible, but less so if he gets to DH from time to time I imagine) then you are not really out anything you wanted anyway. When healthy he’s at 3B, fields in LF ~ when not healthy or filling in elseware, Fields is at 3B and you have Quint in the OF.

Probably not the ideal situation, but brings a possible big bat to the lineup without giving anything desirable to the club up in return. Does add a little salary, but not too much because Crede makes a pretty penny himself. Gives both players a chance with a different team, and both teams are used to a possible injury risk at the position so that’s not a huge deal… I think it would be the most interesting chance they could take with him, and possibly pay off the most in a season KW just doesn’t want to give up on. Edmonds would have of course been better IMO, but this isnt that bad either…

I don't think that would work dark. Quentin is the left fielder of the future and Fields doesn't have the range to play center. Center field will likely be Owens' job to lose, and possibly Alexei will get some time there. Which isn't as bad as people think. But Williams has made it clear that as long as Fields is in the White Sox organization, he will be a third basemen. Like I said, they will probably wait until Crede gets a chance to prove he is healthy to get a trade done, because his value is nil right now. Plus, I don't think Rolen can be seen as a big bat anymore, not after last season. He hasn't done anything since to make me think he would get his power back. His shoulder has really ruined him the past few years and will likely continue to.

Let me tell you why you were put down for naming those players that should have been traded. It's because there was no market for them, except Garland, which puzzled me. But for the rest, there was no market for Dye. The best offer as Wily Mo Pena and Craig Hansen. Dye is a top run producer on the White Sox. If Sweeney decides to learn to hit for power, he has a spot in center field waiting for him. Pierzynski had no market because no one wants him. He's an adequate catcher and again, the Sox have no one to replace him. Thome has a NTC. Plus, no one had a spot for him sans the Angels and they just didn't want to give up talent...which we have seen a lot of.

What are we looking at as far as a contract for Prior? In lew of recent signings by the Padres for one year, will the Pads be able to lock him up for a year?

I'm thinking he gets about 1 year 4 million guarenteed with huge incentives or maybe a 2 year deal around 9.5 million with some minor incentives. Any thoughts?

I believe Quentin will more than likely end up as the 4th OFer for much of 2008 though ~ he isnt exactly a sure thing and I don’t think they want to risk him getting hurt. He will probably spend a good chunk of the year spelling Dye/Fields in both LF&RF if Crede or another 3B is around. I also cant imagine seeing Ramirez in 2008 and we probably wont see him getting too much time even in 09 ~ he will need lots of pro-experience first… (similar imports take about 2 years to start getting real playing time)

Like I said though, its just an idea which would fit the “we can compete” plan more, possibly provide huge results, and not cost much that’s wanted anyway… If he is going to be traded, this is the kind of deal I would think you have to go for if you are KW with that delusional “I will win” mentality…

and no Gogo, it wasnt because of a lack of market for the guys I was talking about ~ it was because Chi fans were insisting that they were just slumping and finish strong and that there was no reason to give up on 2008 at that point. They didnt want a rebuild ~ they told me "the fans will not stand for a rebuild" so instead they wanted to entrust KW to win somehow... If you think back, KW was even talking about being possible buyers shortly before the deadline ~ the fans ate it up I guess…

I honestly don't think Williams thinks he will win, he just doesn't want to dismantle the team because his owner won't let him because of the money that's invested in his team; he's working for his job, right now, it seems. He is trying heartfelt to get younger and compete at the same time, this is where acquisitions like Richar and Quentin come in. Quentin had surgery on his labrum, I think he will be ready by April. And he's always been a monster in the minors and was pretty good (.850ish OPS) in 2006 in the majors. I was surprised he was got for so little, but he will likely be the everyday left fielder. I think Ryan Sweeney will be a fine outfielder and will inject some life into the team, when he is ready. He had an .800 OPS in AAA as a 21 year old, battled wrist injuries last year. People denounce him because he can't hit for power well enough, but look at a lot of other young, rising stars and their numbers at his age. I will cite Adrian Gonzalez and Ale Rios for starters(you can find their minor league stats at baseball reference or the cube). His rotation is set because he can't get rid of Contreras, and Floyd and Danks should be acceptable. Next year will be big in seeing if a lot of guys will be able to contribute. A lot of my points are really what you think of guys like Richar, Sweeney(always forgotten), Quentin and Fields can do.

My point is, Williams needs to sit pretty until ST when he should deal Crede. He doesn't really think he can compete with the Indians and Tigers, but he doesn't want to alienate the fanbase.

Gogo, if what you are saying is true, then why get Cabrera? An ageing FA at the end of the year who if you extend will need to be get like 3 years (ie, he will be with the team for 4 years total for huge cash). Garland could have brought something much better in the longterm sense, and if he just wanted a SS then the deal he passed up last year was the one to take (Renteria + Top-Pitching prospect).

And the two of us havent disagreed much in the past I dont believe, so I'm curious if you have me confused with another from those deadline times. (seems like you may) Most of the people who got upset with me saying they should probably trade the vets were posters who didnt put two sentences together very well ~ or just insisted that Garland was somehow this 2-type starter everyone dreams about...

As far as guys like Richer and Sweeny? I don’t trust either and don’t see them as longtrem solutions. I like Quentin, but he will take time and shouldn’t be counted on fulltime right off the bat IMO. Fields will be a fine MLer ~ but in the OF, not 3B. And I personally see KW moving Crede the moment he gets a “help-now” type offer from another team ~ he loves to play the constant-tinkering game trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

You didn't get any arguments from me but I am offering perspective on why you did. Anyway, with Garland, Williams was dealing from a position of strength, in his mind. So he was expendable at his salary. I don't know why he didn't go for Renteria when he could have but we are all ready to see Uribe leave. Besides, Cabrera is better defensively and health wise than Renteria, even if that's the only the only thing he has to offer over him. It was almost a salary dump, but he got a shortstop back. He's really a stop gap until 2011-2012 when the White Sox young shortstop prospects, either Miranda or 16-year old Silvero will be ready. But a lot can change between now and then.

As far as the young players on the Sox, well I guess we will have agree to disagree. I think Sweeney will develop 20+ home run power, and sooner rather than later. Quentin is a plus defender and had great minor league numbers, if he didn't have such a tough time in the majors it would have taken more than Carter to get him, Richar, well he's just so smooth defensively and had a great season in the minors and wasn't too shabby in the majors. Slick defense and 15-20 home run pop 2nd basemen don't grow on trees.

ERent vs Cabrera? Arguable, as you know. Difference I see comes in this though ~ Renteria is A) cheaper because of Boston money B) more flexible situation because of the 09 option C) AllStar SS just the same and D) came with a top-pitching prospect! It was even before the Salty or Dotel traded too (from what I remember), so the prospect could have been Davies or even Harrison for all we know. Seems a strange choice for KW to make, taking OC only a couple months later… Or if Garland was just a salary dump, then why not get the two BP arms KW said he wanted? Would have also meant not signing Linebrink to that questionable 4 year deal ~ ie actually saved money…

…Most of the real problem comes in the fact that KW has seemingly never really tried to make progress though. You mention a lack of interest from other clubs, but in fact its not really the case. If you think back you may remember that no PaleHose guy was even really on the trade block ~ everyone ever rumored to be available from the Sox almost instantly saw their name mentioned as one of those KW was talking about locking up longterm (Dye and MarkB eventually getting their deals). Also hindering trades was the fact that KW was saying that he didn’t know if he would be selling or buying, didn’t want to lose anyone off the current roster and constantly asking for extreme returns on everyone inquired on. Garland we were told would take 2 top prospects. Dye? Two top prospects… Contreras even was a top-prospect + more if ya wanted him. It was like KW was dead-set on not dealing anyone unless he was able to completely rip the other team off, it lead to seemingly very little interest.

As far as the kids… Sweeny doesn’t have the power makup that Gonzalez or Rios came with. Both Alex and Adrian were showing their power before reaching AA, mainly in the form of Doubles and Triples from what I remember, but the HRs were obviously coming real soon. Not saying Sweeny will always blow at the big stage, but I cant see more than the 15HR range during his peak years really. Might touch something close to 20, but I don’t think I would bet on it. Even in the minors I don’t think he has ever posted an OPS above 800 really, and I don’t think he has shown anything in the form of power at any stage really. What little power he shows going forward will probably come in the form of doubles ~ he’s not that different than Richar from my understanding, which leads us to…

Danny Richar? Is he projected to have real power? I thought he was an OBP-contact guy with solid D. I was always under the impression we were looking at something like Ronnie Belliard type with the bat with a tad less HR pop and of course a bit better D… (well, if he really succeeded that is of course) I remember he showed some power in High-A, but everyone always seems to do so at that level… He should be a Doubles guy with ideally a .350ish OBP if he succeeds. I cant see him ever providing better numbers then Iguchi ~ another guy I really question moving if you aren’t going to get anything in return, but whatever…

Quentin? He could be solid but has been questioned constantly since coming up. I mean, hasn’t he been in AAA since like 2004? I know his biggest plus was his pitch-recognition in the minors ~ something that hasn’t shown it self much at all in the majors. His OBP and BB/K rate was just flat out sick in the minors, in the majors he cant seem to get close to replicating it though. He’s a swinger, all the way, and will make lots of solid contact if he catches up with ML pitching. He seems to be trying to drive the ball more in the majors though, leading to the struggles in the best part of his game. If he succeeds, I think he projects to something like a .300/.375/.450ish hitter ~ which would be really nice production. I think a lot of his down value also comes from an attitude though, the reason many scouts have given up on him from what I remember. Injury-risk, bad attitude, nothing showing he can catch-up to ML pitching yet ~ I really think they will take their time with him to get him back on track and keep from stunting his growth. Could be wrong, wouldn’t be the first time :) ~ but its what I believe probably happens…

arlos Quentin's minor league numbers: 169 walks, 187 k's, .313/.413/.527/.940. That is pretty sick. So he's kept his OBP 100 points above BA in the minors, but how about the majors? You say his recognition hasn't translated, but in his stint in 06 he batted in the .250s but got on base in the .340s. Last year, with a partially torn labrum, he hit in the .210s with a .290s OBP. So that's one thing that will stick. On the other side, his slugging has been above .500 just about everywhere but his stint in AZ last season. I think that, with half his games in the home run bloating U.S. Cell, he could near a .900 OPS. He has been ready for awhile, so it isn't like any growth stunting is going on. He was 22nd and 20th in BA's 2005 and 2006 Top 100 list.

Sweeney is a head scratcher. A lot of players have had their breakouts when they hit 23, which Sweeney will be next season after 2 full AAA seasons. I'm hoping that means that his 6'4 frame will fill out and he will swing harder. He has hit wrist problems and if he stays healthy, I think we will see a 20 home run hitter, but we cannot see into the future. He's gone from 42nd, to 94th, to 55th in BA's top 100 the last 3 years.

Richar, as far as I'm concerned, is the most easily projectable player of this discussion. He has averaged 15 home runs a season the last three seasons. 20 in A+ in 2005, 8 in AA in 06 and 19 between AA, two AAA teams(torrid with Charlotte) and the White Sox. His plate presence was pretty good for a rookie and he goes deep into counts. He reminds me somewhat of a young Jose Vidro. He should just be a nice player, basically.

Fields quietly struck out 185 times last season between MLB and AAA. That's pretty impressive, lol. He could hit 35, even 40 home runs last season. He's sort of like Jonny Gomes except he's a below average third basemen rather than a crappy corner outfielder, even DH. I think that he can be an average third basemen, but a move to left or right field or 1B will likely happen someday.

*Fields could hit 35, 40 home runs next season

But…

Quentin in the minors looked like he was almost a lock to reach 100BB a season. His numbers (as you state are like 170ish total) are put up over very little minor-league time from what I remember, and it really does work to something like 100 per season worth of ABs from what I remember. In the majors though, hasn’t he gotten it down to something like 60 BB/season worth of ABs? His K rate has also more than doubled up on the BB rate, despite being a sick 1 for 1 in the minors. Not an unheard of change, but when you couple the lower BB rate and tough time with the BA… His BA being so low is more the reason his OBP has stayed 100+ in the majors from my understanding; if he raised the BA though, the gap would be eliminated quickly. In the minors, the OBP was always extreme no matter what he posted BA wise ~ his OBP was just there instead of being higher as a result of the BA. In the minors he got tons of walks and a varying degree of hits ~ in the majors he isnt getting the walks and has needed more hits to make up for it (which he hasn’t been able to do). That’s what I was trying to say, if that makes sense :)

It’s a tough call on him ~ I know he is trying too hard in the majors where he seemed a more natural hitter in the minors. I also know he was posting somewhere in the 500-525ish SLG range when he is hitting like 300-325 BA ~ if he ends up in the 300 Range in the majors I believe that translates to about 450-475 SLG from what I remember. Could be wrong, off the hip like I mentioned ~ but fairly confident on it… Couple it with a .375ish OBP and you have a .825-.850 OPS which is about what Alex Rios has been providing. .900ish? That’s probably pushing it a little bit man :) I mean, how many WhiteSox not named Thome or Konerko have reached that number the last 4-5 years? Did 20 guys in all of baseball even reach that number last year? And for as much as USCell might help, being in probably the most pitching-rich division will hurt…

I do really like his stroke too and was semi hoping the Tribe would pull him in (although no clue where he would play) ~ but I know that he has work to do. The Stunting comes from that ~ his struggles adapting to the MLs and dramatic change in his numbers shows that he might seem ready but isnt really (or worse, never will be). As a 4th guy he wont have the self-added pressure of thinking he has to do anything amazing, ideally leading to him relaxing and getting back to the more natural game he had in the minors. On the flip, he could be adding more pressure now hoping to get/keep that full-time job… I don’t know, I just think the fulltime LF job would be a bit much on him... Besides, with Fields best suited for LF (like you agree) it almost answers itself doesn’t it? Dye isnt going anywhere so…

Sweeny ~ yeah, I really don’t know what to say. I agree that some guys start filling out at 23-23YO, but they usually show the power in other ways before that too. Unless I’m confusing him with someone else, I think he has only really shown anything even closely resembling power one year, right? The type of leash will he have with the club ~ that will probably be the best indicator as to whether he has a future with the ChiSox. As it currently stands, aren’t they looking for other CFers to pretty much eliminate him from longterm possibility anyway? They have been rumored with most of the CF names afterall…

Richar ~ wasn’t his HR total in AA dismal though? That’s the 8 mark I think you are referring to ~ and it was a full year right? Also, doesn’t he have very few doubles on top of those HRs? I know he has some speed and slight power ~ but I really didn’t think people expected it to be HR power in the majors. I really, really thought we were looking at a 2B and some 3Bs guy with HRs in the 10-15 max range. (That’s what Belly was until he got fat to the point that he couldn’t stretch a double into a triple. Hehehe) I agree he could prove to be a nice player if he fares ok in the majors, I just don’t think it’s the 20HR type of nice player. Last year while with the big club he looked ok but he too was trying to be more of a powerguy than a BA guy; as the two start to balance out (if he succeeds) we can see .280/.340 with something like 30 2B maybe 7 3B and 10-15HR ~ which I think that’s about what Iguchi was providing. Will be fun to see what does happen…

And 185Ks? Yeah, that takes some talent…People always rag on Braynan, but I think being able to strike out 100+ times in less than half a season worth of ABs shows something… hehehe… Josh’s power is the real deal though, I remember his Dbl/Tpl/HR numbers were looking impressive every single year he was coming up, his question was more whether he could ever hit a single as well instead of walking back to the pine…

I dunno man I mean Sweeney is projection, we've yet to see what he can do but all I know is he is a scout's dream(he has a very fluid and picture perfect stroke) and a stat head's fourth outfielder ever since he hit AAA as a 21 year old. But the White Sox are telling him it's gonna be home runs or the highway, so hopefully(for the Sox) it works out.

For Quentin, I guess the labrum was nagging him quite a bit. 300 at bats in the majors, 2/3 of which are injury infected aren't good to go on. We'll see what he can do, he will be given every chance to win the job out of Spring Training because the White Sox are extremely high on him, Kenny Williams said that his four offseason moves planned were to get a shortstop, get a reliever, get a center fielder and get Carlos Quentin, "not someone like Carlos Quentin but actually Carlos Quentin." Maybe something that affected him was that he had Carlos Gonzalez and Justin Upton hot on his trail, but he should feel safe in Chitown. "How many WhiteSox not named Thome or Konerko have reached that number the last 4-5 years?" Dye, Thomas, Rowand, Maggs, and C Lee had a couple in the .890s :) Hey if Rowand can do it, so can Quentin. I'm not saying he'll do it next year but remember guys don't always reach their upside at 25, he's under control for five more years.

Richar is probably who you said he's going to be, but he will probably have a few 15-20 home run seasons mixed into his career, like Belly.

Those Fields homers aren't cheapies, either. He's hit some 420's as a rookie. It is frustrating because he is very athletic at third base and makes some top plays, but I think he has it in him to improve. He played a little shortstop in the minors, and was starting QB for Oklahoma, that's how athletic he is. He also stole 28 bases in 06 and got CS 5 times, but he didn't run at all in 07. I wonder if he can hit .260 and get on base in the .330s, then he could definitely put up a near .900 OPS with the power he has.

Did Rowand really touch 900 while with the Sox? I knew it got up there one year, but wouldn’t have guessed it got that high. Yeah, its always possible that Quentin could post that I guess, but all-in-all he will probably be in the 800-850 range if he ever manages to make it in the majors anyway. The Injury? Well, I would think that the BB rate would be the one thing not really affected much by it…

And let us not forget that we are pretty much talking “best-case” on all three here ~ which is beyond the initial conversation. I just feel that Quentin might provide something a bit down the line ~ but not right away and should probably be more of a 4th guy in 08. And I don’t think Richer or Sweeny will be longterm fixtures with the club. Could be wrong ~ who knows, but that’s what I think based off what we have seen so far :)

And yeah, Fields does have that sick power stroke if he can contain it. I’ve always been puzzled with free-swing power guys though; you have to wonder if their power would really be cut that horribly if they stopped trying to hit so many HRs only to see them strike out. I mean, if you have the power and focus on making contact first, the HRs will follow naturally. Frank Thomas is a great example of this ~ he never worried about mashing the ball, it just came naturally. Or Bonds in his later years, he waited for the pitch he liked and let the rest take care of itself. If Fields became more patient at the plate he would still pound the ball, yet he continues to swing for the fences. And it’s not just him of course, but he’s who we are talking about… I’m really surprised that more coaches don’t take almost a “Willie Mays Hayes” approach with it ~ gimme 10 for every overswing!

You bring up an interesting point, but mean come on, Thomas and Bonds are freaks of nature. They are the two greatest hitters of the 90s and Bonds became a heavy steroid user later on. I look at Burrell's 2002 and 2005 and wonder if that is true. Fields is so strong that he could easily run into quite a few home runs on accident if he had an easier stroke. The best guy right now I can think of on the Sox is Konerko who has a home run mentality for the first few strikes and then cuts down. Look at Ortiz, though-he sacrificed a lot of home runs from 2006-2007 and maintained a .600 plus SLG because of all his singles and doubles. Then there's Pronk, who just had a bad season and watched everything drop. I think it's just a case of guys going with what they feel comfortable with, and when they hit well, they hit well. It's a mental thing. And it is very hard to change your swing and approach, it's not something you can do in a week or a month.

Oh, never would I expect players to really change unless they are almost forced to. I mean, how long have we been waiting for Soriano to stop swing at so many damn pitches that look like they will hit the backstop… But I’m surprised more teams don’t stress it all throughout the system ~ make contact, try to build your eye and let the power come naturally instead of trying to squeeze every ounce of power out of the probable sluggers. And of course I know Thomas and Bonds are outside the normal, but you know what I’m saying mentioning them.

I think Hafner and Ortiz are great examples of this for the non-freak of nature power hitter. Both are just patient hitters with a ton of brute strength, both provide doubles as much as they do HRs and both have posted some of the sickest recent OPS. Neither is just some master of the game though, they just really succeed by being patient. End result is the HR totals fluctuate more, but no one will ever question their production. Two guys that you don’t usually see swing for the fences, but so many of them end up there anyway… (That is what many of the Tribe fans feel was to blame for Hafners off-year ~ it looked like he was trying to hit too many pitches too hard). And you do have to think that Min was probably thinking Ortiz didn’t hit the HR’s they figured he should ~ I mean who wants a guy that just hits a ton of doubles, right? Another good example of a guy who didn’t really try to hit HRs but ended up with quite a few of them and some nice SLG numbers would probably be Edgar Martinez …

And not saying HR by accident really, just saying focus on the contact first and let things happen more naturally. I mean, some of the best HR hitters of our time have been guys who didn’t look like HR hitters at all ~ they just had the eye and swing to generate near perfect contact. Who would have thought that a 120 pound Strawberry could generate a 550+ SLG in pitching heaven SheaStadium! I know he wasn’t 120 ~ but man it seemed it… Or what about Junior; his appearance wasn’t one of your typical powerhitter. Non-power guys can hit HRs in bunches just by making solid contact (see Loften or Little-O being able to reach the 15 mark!). On the flip, a Rob Deer type just holds such little value because its so hit or miss…

I just want to comment on how it seems like a lot of Cubs go to the Padres... I just chuckled when i read that Prior named the pads as the front runners.