Brian Roberts Rumors

Brian Roberts has Retired.

Could Cintron be part of this deal instead of Cedeno? Maybe the cubs bought his contract for the O's, because I had thought he was going to sign with the O's in the first place.

"What are the O's going to do with a closer who will never have many chances to close?"

Well George Sherrill hasn't really been a closer. If he succeeds and converts 10-20 saves by the trade deadline his value will jump significantly. Understand now?

I am officially sick of Brian Roberts trade news. Between, Santanna, and Bedard. Can we get the deal done in a month? It just drags for an eternity.

Sherrill isn’t going anywhere this spring. Baltimore will make him their closer with the intention of making a deadline deal. They intend on maximizing his value that way. Closers and set-up men tend to be pretty valuable as the season goes on.
Right now he’s just a lefty specialist with modest value. The Orioles would be foolish to trade him now when they can get a lot more for him in July – if he becomes a successful closer. I’m not a big fan of McPhail but he isn’t stupid. He’s not going to sell low on Sherrill.

Enough of Brian Roberts please. He's a good player, but was only a great player for one season.

Tim, I feel like you should hold more editorial constraint with rumors regarding Brian Roberts: we know the teams involved, we know the players being discussed, and we know that the Orioles and Cubs can't seem to agree.

Roberts is not a player that can supposedly "put a team over the top." DeRosa has put up decent stats over the past two years, and Roberts seems only like a marginal improvement.

I keep hearing 'Brian Robert's is only a marginal improvement over DeRosa.' It's not about who's better, it's about having a leadoff hitter who doesn't strikeout 130 times, a guy who stole 50 bases last year, a high OBP guy, and another left handed bat in the lineup. I love Soriano but I think we've all had enough of him leading off. With Roberts we could drop him to the 2 or 5 spot.

sharkeyanti, I disagree about Tim and the Roberts threads. Tim has to create new Roberts threads because it helps to channel the Cubs fans into the same threads. Otherwise, they'd talk about it in other contexts and all the non-Cubs fans would start whining. Keep the Roberts threads coming until the trade is over. It's better than way for everyone.

It has to be another pitcher involved, no doubt.

Crunchy I was thinking the same thing. I thought the reason ARam and Sori didn't get the start today was to showcase Cedeno and Murton. But then the O's are not showing up before next week. I also thought it was strange to put Cedano at third and Centron at second. During interviews it sounded like Cedano was kinda scared of third. Mabe we didnt want him to shine so the O's pass on him and look at Centron? Just a thought.

Would the O's take Gallagher, Marshall, and 1 of Pattersen/Cintron/Cedeno. I think it's too much.

It's well documented that closers on bad teams have been able to get 30 SAVEs. And nothing has to necessarily be that unusual of a year for that bad team's closer to get that many. The bottomline is that if he can close, he will get his chances. Wasn't TB's closer last year an All-Star candidate with that many saves?

Anyways, for the Cubs to trade for Sherrill it makes so little sense to the Orioles that I doubt the Cubs would want to trade for a piece they do deem necessary. Having a decent bullpen with some vets is important for the Orioles rotation building. The Cubs can't pay that price.

Im not saying your offer is not going to happen CUBBIES2008, but yikes!! If that happens i think Hendry should feel violated!

Roberts won't hit more home runs than Derosa, and the difference between their OBP numbers arent that huge (career: .351 to .341, 2007: .377 to .371). The differences between Roberts and Derosa are almost solely based in his ability to steal more bases, produce more extra base hits, play better defense, and Roberts does walk slightly more. Roberts is definately the superior player, and the difference between them is definately more than marginal, but its not a lot more than marginal.

The primary reason why Roberts would be so valuable isn't the difference between him and Derosa, but the difference between the batting order with him there and without him there. That difference, is definately NOT marginal. Its MASSIVE. Roberts would offer the Cubs a lefthanded leadoff hitter with the ability to efficiently steal bases. The Cubs don't have that. They don't have anyone even remotely close to that.

"Meanwhile, you're content hitting a 40/40 hitter in the lead-off spot and are content only taking advantage of one of Soriano's strengths while you waste those 40 bombs with no one on base. Face it, you need a lead-off hitter because Soriano is a middle of the lineup hitter."

Every single Cub fan knows this. If they say they're a Cubs fan and they don't know this, then they're not a Cubs fan. I would be willing to promise you that most Cubs fans hate the idea of Soriano leading off and are fully aware that is most valuable assets are being wasted in the leadoff spot. Ideally he should be batting 5th or 6th in a good lineup, which is where he would go if we added Roberts.

Lets just all hope that today was a sign of things to come from Felix Pie. 3 at bats, a walk, double, and HR. Man that would be amazing if he finally hit like he did in AAA. Keep those fingers crossed. I know it was one game, and it was the first spring training game, but you have to be real pleased so far. DON'T TRADE FOR BYRD OR CRISP!

Thats great, nice work crunchy...

Man, if Pie learns how to effective hit MLB pitching, and the Cubs do get Roberts, then I think you can pen up the division for Chicago. That would essentially be three good lefties we added to our batting order this year.

And by the way, can anyone here agree that Pie is getting somewhat underestimated now? He hasn't produced yet in the majors in either of the past two seasons, but then again he turned 23 three weeks ago. The guy was an elite prospect, but when he got his chance and failed, it seems like some people wrote him off. Then he raked in AAA and came back to the majors last year and faced a lot of the same issues. If he could rake AAA pitching and has the tools to be an elite CF, then why shouldn't he be able to be? I think a lot of people have kinda forgot about him, but he's no longer considered a top prospect, even though he is just 23.

Personally I am gonna really enjoy watching the great young center fielders of the NL Central grow up together over the next few years (Felix Pie, Colby Rasmus, Andrew McCutchen, Jay Bruce). Thats an astonishing bunch of players. The worst player in that group will probably at least make an all star game or two.

Great point on the NL CFs. It will be something if all blossom into their potential.

Not may guys bust on the star scene with 200 ABs or less. This year Pie will take some lumps. I'm going to find it hard to not get excited if we keep Pie and he grows like I think he will. Consistant growth would be great. He does not have to save the team. I feel he is the real deal and not a Cub bust like H. Choi (although he got us D. Lee), B. Hill (although he got us A. Ramirez) and ofcourse, C. Patterson (although he got us many headaches). I hope I'm right anyway.

See what makes Pie so special though is that he doesnt even need to be a good hitter to be effective. He is already one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball, and in center that has immense value. Considering that he'll pile up some steals as well, Pie would be a damn good player with a 715 OPS. There aren't a lot of guys who you can say that about. But the thing is that its very likely that he'll hit far better than that. Thats what'll make him special. If he can just field and run but can't hit great, then he'll just be a pretty good player. But if he can consistently bat around .300 with a solid .800ish OPS then he would really be a special player with that defense.

And just to put into perspective how many good young outfielders there are in the NL Central: Felix Pie, Tyler Colvin, Andrew McCutchen, Steven Pearce, Hunter Pence, Michael Bourn, Colby Rasmus, Ryan Braun, Matt LaPorta, Corey Hart, Jay Bruce, Drew Stubbs. Thats 12 potentially great outfielders. Can anyone else think of a division with more good young outfielders than that? I'll give it a thought..

crunchy, I really haven't even thought about how good their outfield defense will be. With Soriano gunning down guys in left, Pie running down every ball possible while also having a "laser-rocket arm" in center, and the supposedly great fielding, great throwing Fukudome.

And I concluded my search of great young outfielders:
AL East
Ellsbury, Kalish, Tabata, Cabrera, Jackson, Jones, Markakis, Reimold, Crawford, Upton, Jennings, Rios, Snider, Lind.
Thats another 14 great young outfielders.

AL Central
Quentin, Sizemore, Gutierrez, Weglarz, Granderson, Young, Gomez, Revere
Only 8 good young outfielders here

AL West
Gonzalez, Sweeney, Buck, Cunningham, Balentien, Hamilton, Beltre.
A very, very unimpressive group of 7

NL East
Francoeur, Schafer, Jones, Heyward, Maybin, Hermida, Martinez, Milledge, Pena, Dukes, Burgess
11 guys, but I would argue all of them could become stars, with Jones, Pena and Burgess being the least likely.

NL West
Young, Upton, Parra, Taveras, Fowler, Kemp, Ethier, Hunter
8 guys, 3 (Upton, Kemp and Young) could end up being superstars.

I would say that maybe, MAYBE, the AL East has superior young outfielders. Nobody can challenge those two divisions though.

I guess it depends if you are going by age or years of service...

I was going by age. I don't think any of those guys are older than 26 with the exception of Josh Hamilton.

Anyone take special notice that Roberts stole 2 bases today? It seems to me that veteran guys like Roberts don't need to steal bases this early in spring training. Anyone think the O's are trying to show the Cubs that Roberts is healthy?...And what they could be missing if they don't fork over another prospect?

You can slam back if it makes you feel better about it. I just prefer to be objective and what other people says has no bearing on that. I'm not making apologies for Adam Loewen but it is the first time he's thrown pitches to live batters in a year since his surgery. And, a week ago was his first time throwing the ball at all during the same time. I was just referring to your "GPS" comment. Pitchers have bad outings no matter who they are. That's just reality. Using it as evidence or defense in an internet argument is meaningless. He was rusty, had a bad outing, no command whatsoever. What does that have anything to do with Cubs players, prospects, or even Roberts?

We're at the point where we're over-thinking things. There is no conspiracy. There is no larger plan at work on either side. Roberts is just playing ball. His stolen bases is not an Oriole strategy to eek out another prospect from the Cubs. He just stole a couple bags against a slow pitcher he got a great read off of. The Cubs have pros in their front office and maybe they learn a thing or two of Roberts this Spring, but they won't trade the farm because they see him go on a Spring hot streak. Come on.

INOK,
Yeah I know it's over paying but thats what were going to do. Anyway I hope we keep Gallagher and trade Veal. Marshall, or Hart some how.

I think Marshall is a back end rotation guy, say a #4 at worst for years to come. That has value in today's market, when guys like him are getting 10 mil a year.

Pie can easily still be very special. Easily. They better keep him. I love the guy, he could be our best position player from the farm in the last decade. (that played with the cubs.)

I don't think the O's fans think Marshall fits because he has limited upside, and because they want younger people (i.e., people they don't have to put on the 40-man roster).

I'm with you on Pie, uww1. I have watched him (like I do all Cub prospects & vets) and think he breaks the string of Cub farm position players who actually make it and could be special.

Good call, Jrf. For some reason Base wanting Gallagher, Huseby, Thomas and Ceda rings a bell. I did not look it up but think that was correct. I thought Base included someone else with Roberts though, not sure.

I don't think one day of ST is anything more than that. Really, Fonteno hits a 3 run jack...he hits fastballs...and early on that is what he will see the most. Btw, I wish that guy could hit a breaking ball consistantly. He might not make the team opening day. It is funny all the guys who could be involved had decent first days.

All of those guys I mention above are competing for the last slot in the rotation.

jrfukudome, yes, I like Gallagher, Huseby, Thomas and Ceda. Not sure what the breakdown of prospects would be there but I'm game. Pie doesn't have to be included. I'm actually not always a buyer of hype over toolsy position players. It depends on the player. I personally pay attention to strikezone and BB peripherals more than actual traditional stats. If you go to some of the different leagues in the minors you will see a wide difference in parks. Toolsy players get rated high for smooth strokes and get a free pass on sketchy strikezone if their age/level is good. A lot of times they tend to play in offensive leagues.

"The Orioles are believed to be looking for a package that includes pitcher Sean Gallagher, shortstop Ronny Cedeno, pitching prospects Jose Ceda and/or Donald Veal and perhaps one other player."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-osnotes0228,0,2773295.story

This looks like it will drag out another couple weeks while our scouts check out the players we want, but it sure does seem like the ball is truly in our court.

Haha about the GPS. No worries about Loewen, that's the first time he's pitched in a game in almost a year and the rust showed. I'm just not interested in Sean Marshall at all.

And I know it's one outing and it's "rust" but Loewen never has had good control. I don't want to pick on him, that's just an objective observation. 88 walks in 142 career innings show that issue is more than just a one time concern. What it had to do with was Sess saying he wanted nothing to do with Marshall, I simply pointed out , using Loewen as an immediate example, that the Orioles don't have a staff that Marshall couldn't crack this year. But I'd understand wanting Veal instead. I would want Veal too.

crunchy, this is where numers fail. You're right that the final minor league numbers say that about Adam but the way he misses is important. He's the only pitcher you'll see who will exhibit awful control one second and then strikeout the side with consecutive unhittable pitches on the black. Yesterday he was missing by a lot, not in the usual Loewen kind of way. As far as control issues with him he has two things to consider with him: he's a big pitcher and he's a lefty. taking a few seasons is pretty typical for LHP SP. His pure stuff is better than Bedard's at the same age.

I think yesterday is a pretty normal example of what Roberts does. Doubles. Steals. Runs. RBIs. Long ABs. Good eye. He is a sparkplug type of leadoff player. He's very good at his style of game. It's probably just the first time a lot of Cubs fans have actually started to notice. If I only had to go by numbers I might think he was an average guy who is over-rated because of his legs. Among AL East fans (ask Yankees and BoSox fans) he's considered probably the toughest out in the division.

basemonkey is right about both Roberts and Loewen. The Yankees hate facing Loewen. And only if/when you guys get Roberts, will you be able to appreciate as we do in Baltimore just how wonderful he is. He'll make you much more than marginally better. And if you happen to make the Series, he could well be the guy who wins it for you.

Base, if Pie at his peak has an OBP of .367, I am fine with that. He can still swipe 20-30 bases and can be a "legit" leadoff hitter if those are his actual numbers.

If its Gallagher, Cedeno, Veal and that is it that is a pretty strong haul. I thing Veal is the real Deal. (sorry not trying to rhyme here) I think he will be a great pitcher, if even from the pen. I am not sure he has the stamina to be a 6-7 inning starter. But he should develop to be the shut down 8th inning guy, possibly an elite closer.

But that is just me. I think if you take those 3 I hostly think that you will have 1-2 legit MLB players and one of the 3 will be a fringe mlb player. But that is my prediction. But with Mazzone as your pitching coach I am surpirsed you dont want Marshall. A 6'7" lefty to mold? It seems like something he would drool over. I say as part of this deal you get Larry Rothchild and we get Mazzone. :-)

Mazzone is long gone. He's not the Orioles pitching coach. It's Rick Kranitz from the Marlins. And just because a pitcher is big doesn't mean they necessarily mean they project highly, or even throw hard. By that rationale Mark Hendrickson should be a stud but he only throws 90 ph on a good day. He's an 88 mph guy.

I'm not going to go in circles on this. There is no news.

The thing I like about tall pitchers is they can throw downhill. It dosen't take a lot of effort to throw from on top of a mound in the low 90s from that height. That should help with control. Marshall's issue hasnt been control its learning a new pitch. Once he has 3 good pitches I think he can do well.

But I agree that height dosent translate to power but it helps. Look at tall tennis players and thier serve. Its just an advantage.

Sorry for the sloppy typing I have a meeting in 3 min, that is enought time to check up on the roberts thread. :-)

When Did Mazzone leave?

I think the era might be a bit optimistic