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Mailbag: Crede, Ka'aihue, Dotel, And More

Let's dig into this week's MLBTR mailbag.  Feel free to ask a question for next week at mlbtraderumors@gmail.com.


Why do you hate the Houston Astros? - Jason

Questions of this nature have now become regular.  If I speak negatively on any club, I receive these emails.  If I say something negative about a Cubs rival, I clearly have a bias.  All I'm really doing is calling it like I see it.  Maybe this particular one has nothing to do with the Astros organization, and is more about Ed Wade.  I'm not inclined, but feel free to dig through the archives.  You'll find positive and negative comments about every team.  And also - why do I always hear about these biases from fans of the team in question, and no one else?


What do you think would be a good return from the Giants for Crede? - Judy

Popular question this week.  I agree that Noah Lowry or Jonathan Sanchez sounds like too much for one year of Crede.  Crede hits for power and plays fine defense, but doesn't get on base, makes $5MM, and is a serious health risk.  If Crede proves his health in spring, Brad Hennessey or Kevin Correia seems possible.


I was wondering why center fielder Jordan Schafer is getting all of the attention when first baseman Kala Ka'aihue seemingly had a better year at the plate, where do you see Ka'aihue ranking in the braves system? - PJ

I will defer to Baseball America on this one.  They've got Schafer as the #1 Braves prospect while Ka'aihue is #25.  The offensive bar is very high for first base since defense isn't a big part of the job.  Glovework is a huge factor in center field, and Schafer is apparently a whiz.


It appears to me the Kyle Davies for Octavio Dotel has got to go down in baseball history as one of the worst trades of all time. What would you rank it as? - Josh

I would rank it is insignificant, especially in the scope of all baseball history.  True, the Braves didn't get much out of Dotel, but Davies has a career ERA of 6.24.  Since Davies is 24, he could turn this into a win for the Royals.  But he hasn't done so yet.


This has probably been asked often, but what players and ballparks are featured in the MLB Trade Rumors banner at the top of the page?  Also, when did you say the new design for the site would be ready? - Connor

I tried to use mostly amateur players, though the guy on the right does look like Jim Edmonds.  My friend made it for me so long ago that I honestly don't remember.  Kind of lame that the stadium in the background is half-empty.  Anyway the redesign is probably about two months off.  Currently I am shoring up some behind-the-scenes things such as making the site load faster.


Maybe I’m just in the minority here, but getting Johan does not shore up the 2008 NY Mets. Huge addition, no doubt.  Where are we when Alou/El Duque goes down?  Schneider not hitting?  Church is really reliable?  Can Maine and Perez do it again?  Pedro is no given.  Yeah for Johan, but at the same time, I’m still not thrilled. - Dan

Once the initial Johan rush wears off, it does seem that the Mets are no lock.  While they're certainly among the top NL contenders, there seems to be a fair amount of injury risk.  Are the Mets deep enough to cover if Alou, Delgado, Castillo, and El Duque go down?  And if Beltran needs another 20 games off?  Injuries could definitely bring the '08 Mets down to Earth.   


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yeah, i noticed the player on the right is Edmonds. thanks for bringing it to my attention again, now every time i visit the site I'll be more eager for the arrival of Rasmus :)

Re: players on the top of screen...I think the one on the left is Shin-Soo Choo and the one on the right is Edmonds - the shades on the player in the middle make it difficult to see who it is

For the record Tim... what is there to like about the Astros?

yea, its shin soo choo on the left, and edmonds on the right.. not sure about the guy in the middle

The name on the back of the player on the right appears to be too long to say "Edmonds." I could be wrong, but it looks like theres a letter before the E

player in the middle: Geoff Blum??


I always thought the guy in the middle was Jose Vidro. Looks like the "DC" Nationals spring training/batting practice cap.

Could the guy on the right be Juan Encarnacion? I agree the name is too long to be Edmonds. Encarnacion would make sense. Shoo is deifnately the guy on the left. And that is almost definately a "DC" hat from a Washington National. Felipe Lopez? Is that too recent?

The guy on the left is Choo, I don't know any other lefty Asians to go through Seattle in a while. The guy on the right is unmistakably Edmonds, the first letter you are all seeing is probably a wrinkle or shade. You can see the Cardinals uniform and I recognize that sweet swing anywhere. The guy in the middle could be anyone from the Nationals pre-06, I can't tell who it is at all. He looks like he's pitching to me.

Astros fan here.
Tim calls it like it is, the Astros are in pretty bad shape with nothing on the horizon to look forward to. Worst team in baseball by 2010? Maybe.
Also, most people think your biased Tim because they get most of there news from local sources who tend to sugarcoat badnews so the readers wont leave in droves.

They are definitely not all Major Leaguers, I can tell you that for a fact.

Part of the bias thing is that I am open about being a Cubs fan. If Jerry Crasnick came out and said he was a die-hard Mets fan he'd have to constantly hear about his bias all of the sudden.

You should include Mark Teixiera, Johan Santana and Erik Bedard in the new logo Tim.

It looks like the Nats guy is pitching, but then again you don't see a whole lot of pitchers wearing sunglasses.

About Ed Wade.

A former professor of mine also taught the same Sports Industry class to Ed Wade. He made it clear that he honestly believed that I was more prepared to be a MLB GM than Wade. And I got the feeling that it had less to do with myself and more to do with Wade.

I always thought the guy in the middle looked like a right-handed Tom Glavine.

Why are the giants even entertaining the thought of Crede? All those cheap third basemen with at least some upside that you wouldn't have to give up a pitcher for. Hinske,ensberg,mcpherson all could have been there's and at minor league contracts. Why not just resign bonds they seem to be just as old as before bonds is healthier then crede and would be way more productive.

I'm sorry but this is Joe effing Crede we're talking about here. Clutch, gold glove defense, 30/100, great clubhouse guy, doesn't strikeout.

Yes, he's had a history back issues, and yes he's "just coming off surgery."

But the surgery was done in friggin early JUNE! He was cleared to resume baseball activities on October 26th. The man is not limping his way back to the diamond! He will be back and I'm guessing better than ever after the extended rest and rehab.

I'm sorry but I'm not trading THAT for a declining bullpen arm in Hennessey or a guy that had a few quality starts last season. Next you're gonna tell me Scott Rolen has better chance of bouncing back. A man who's far more injury prone who's numbers saw a drastic decline last season. And he was traded for Troy GLAUS! Not Gustavo Chacin or friggin Jason Frasor. Come on now Tim.

Start talking Jonathan Sanchez and Henry Sosa and you might see something get done.

/end rant

I am not impressed with the Mets, yea Santana is great, but the rest I don't trust, some with offense.. but to be fair, there isn't a MLB team that injuries to 2-3 key people wouldn't destroy their season.
Least they are in the NL, in the AL one player for one week might be enough to ruina a season.

The correct answer for the middle player is Ryan Zimmerman, I believe. It's not a pitching pose, but rather an guy throwing across the diamond to first. Notice the proximity to the outfield grass behind him in the picture?! There's enough of a glimpse of crossover from dirt to grass that he's only 20 feet inside the dirt/grass divider.

As for stadiums, it looks like Tiger stadium on the left because of the pillars and the super deep bottom tier of the stadium with such a tall second level. And the one in the middle is Kansas City or old Aokland stadium because of all the flag poles. The final one on the right is tough, I'm guessing an older stadium because of the design of the dugout... Don't kill me, but maybe the old Polo grounds, or Chavez Ravine if my dating is a little off?!

crede career .259/.305/.446
that's an ops of .751, 30 homers one time never driven in 100 and he's had a history of back problems this isn't just one time. Clutch/clubhouse leader are not stats. We are talking about a guy with one good year who is 30 and will be going to a tougher park. The whitesox would be lucky to get Correia.

asspanda: Sanchez and Sosa HAHAHA. I don't think so.

"""A former professor of mine also taught the same Sports Industry class to Ed Wade. He made it clear that he honestly believed that I was more prepared to be a MLB GM than Wade. And I got the feeling that it had less to do with myself and more to do with Wade."""

OK, guy, thanks for the little anecdote. What a joke, you expect anyone to believe that garbage? Save the tall tales for your kids. You are not and never will be anything close to a MLB GM. The WORST GM in MLB history is/was FAR more qualified than you will ever be. I don't even know who you are but that fact goes without saying.

Say what you want, your Cubs bias is glaringly obvious and your palpable disdain for the Astros is just as apparent. You ask why you only hear these things from fans of the respective teams? That's quite a silly question, I hope you're just being coy.

"""Tim calls it like it is, the Astros are in pretty bad shape with nothing on the horizon to look forward to. Worst team in baseball by 2010? Maybe."""

Wow. "Worst team in MLB," huh? Why? B/C they shipped out Eric Bruntlett and Brad Lidge? B/C they didn't sign their draft picks last year? B/C they shipped out Troy Patton, the 87mph wonder-boy??

Now, I've been disgusted with some of the things the Houston FO has done, but "worst team in MLB?" Good God, man, talk about a knee-jerk reaction. You could cut every top-notch player on any given team, start from scratch, rebuild and you STILL couldn't say that that team would likely be the worst MLB team several down the road.

This Astros squad is definitely better than the "Farewell Biggio" garbage crew that they put out their last year. A lot of this team's spirit and bravado died when Bagwell left and Biggio should have been gone YEARS before him. This overhaul of sorts was the best thing that could have happened and Wade did a good job considering what was out there. He couldn't improve the rotation so he focused on the offense and BP.

As for the weak farm, MiLB systems cycle like that, all teams go through periods of shallow talent at the lower levels. If they continue to as they have previously, than yes, they could very well be on their way to being the worst team in baseball. I just don't see that happening. There, there's MY bias. I have faith in our FO, we're not that Nationals for God's sake.

My recommendation for the rebuild - have all links that take the reader out of the site open in a new window. Especially in a "Quick Hits" section I may want to read multiple articles for further reading and I'd rather just close the window when I'm done rather than hitting the back button and finding where I left off all over again.

I have a couple thoughts on the Astros and the first being that I think they'll at least finish above .500 and they are nowhere near the worst team in baseball. Who cares about a thin minor league system when you have no glaring holes that will need to be filled in the next couple years.

Sure the pitching could be better, but it's not bad and they have a legitimate ace in Oswalt! As long as Wandy turns into a number two as I believe he's projected than it's okay having Backe as the 3 and Sampson is at best a 5 but that's okay too. They aren't above average, but they are atleast average in their rotation. As a side note, Backe by any other name would be Carlos Silva, those guys are equal in many respects and Silva has been unofficially named the 3 on the Mariners, even with the acquisition of Bedard around the corner and Washburn and Batista both being solid starters.

My gripe if I had one is that they have a couple guys on their team that even the most borderline of prospects in their system could replace. I'm sure if I spend two minutes going through the AA or AAA roster I could find someone more capable of replacing two guys that should have been forced to retire for lack of production years ago. Those guys would be...(drum roll) Darin Erstad and Geoff Blum, these guys are average at best and they are only there to give a left-handed presence off the bench. You still have to hit water falling out of a boat to be worth something as a left-hander in a grotesquely right-handed lineup.

This of course brings me to my next point... I feel sorry for any lefthander that has to face these guys because after looking at last years numbers, they hit about .30-.40 higher against lefties than they do righties across the board with the exception of Berkman, since he's really a left-handed hitter who bats right-handed as a side show act to entertain the fans and Bourn who couldn't hit his weight last years against lefties, this goes for Erstad as well, both of these guys shouldn't be playing MLB ball if they can't hit the Mendoza line against lefties, but Bourn has much to offer in other tools, so he gets a temporary pass, but Erstad should've stayed with place kicking! I've never seen someone benefit from ONE season of average production, more than Darin has! Sorry I think I want to go vomit...

Okay, I'm back and the final issue they have is that they have is akin to the first gripe, which is their bench being so weak. I mean I've seen teams get by with little to nothing in terms of guys coming off the pine, but aside from Loretta, they are a bunch of washed up old guys or never-been young ones... Reggie Ambercrombie also falls into the aforementioned overrated players converstaion from above with his .197 average last year. I like the things I've read about J.R. Towles, but the verdict is still out since 14 games and 40 ABs hardly makes a career, but he looks promising. I would like to see them trade for a guy to swing from the left side of the plate who hits well against lefties and righties before I put them in the same class as the Cubs though. The argument you may bring up is Bourne, Matsui, Berkman, but only one of those guys bats after the 2nd spot in the rotation and that's a whole lot of toil for guys that can't hit as well against righties (which comprise 75% of the pitchers in the league, roughly).

Expected Record: 85W - 77L and 3rd place in the division behind the Cubs and Brewers.

Good call Slim, I like that thought. In the mean time just right click the link and then hit open in a new tab or open in a new window to do that currently!

Sorry I meant lineup instead of rotation (5 or so lines from the bottom, where I talk about Bourne, Matsui, and Berkman)

In regards to Joe Crede, there are two schools of thought and one is that the Giants desperately need another bat besides Rowand and their need for a legitimate 3B is equally as pressing. The second school of thought is that pitching is worth twice as much as hitting because of a drought in TOR pitchers.

I believe the desperation for power/3B by the Giants along with their wealth of young starters is about equal to the desire to find talented pitchers, so I think we have to go old school on this one and go off of actual player value for the first time in at least half a decade!

I think you have to fill two holes if you are the Giants to make this work and it's not simply going to be Crede for ......., if the deal even goes down. My guess would be that the Giants would want something else to make a fall off in production by Joe to be more palatable to the fans of San Fran! I'm going to go way off the page and throw out a blockbuster deal that could help both clubs!

Giants get:
Joe Crede 3B
Jim Thome 1B
Danny Richar 2B

White Sox get:
Noah Lowry SP
Ray Durham 2B
Rajai Davis CF
Dave Roberts OF

This looks a little crazy and maybe another pitching prospect going to White Sox would make it work a little better.

The White Sox desperately need to get Swisher to 1B and this would allow him to split time at DH/1B with Konerko. It give the Sox a nice lead off hitter in Davis who can steal bases and has a healthy OBP as he comes into his own. It also shores up the 3 spot in the rotation and allows Contreras to move to the 4 spot where he is better suited to pitch out of at this point in his career. Durham makes the money right and allows them one less youngster to depend on right away. They have lots of great young players in Chicago, but unfortunately, you can't win with three of the positions manned by 1st and 2nd year players and a guy playing way out of position as Swisher would be if he was the opening day CF.

I think the Astros will be better than last year.

Their rotation didn't get any worse than it was, and the bullpen and lineup seemingly got better. (that is, until Miguel Tejada goes to jail)

They aren't going to win the World Series, hell, they probably won't even make the playoffs, but it was about time that something was changed. They got by with a below average offense for a few years when Pettite and Clemens were in the rotation. Maybe they can get by with a below average pitching staff and a great offense (kind of like the Phillies did last year).

"Are the Mets deep enough to cover if Alou, Delgado, Castillo, and El Duque go down? "

Most teams arent deep enough to cover injuries to 3 starting players and a starting pitcher, though I think the Mets would be ok if Endy, Gotay and Pelfry had to fill in. And it makes the Mets supposed interest in bringing Craig Wilson in make more sense.

First off, Tim's not biased against the Astros. I've seen good and bad from him, and the only thing that really stands out in my mind is his disdain for the Matsui signing, which in my book is an informed opinion, and not a slam.

As for the whole Ed Wade thing, I understand that some Phillies fans have a grudge against him, but he's got a new job with a new team and he should be judged based only on that.

It's a bit much when fans of other teams pick up on the Phillies an vibe just to jab Astros fans. I wasn't a fan of the move, I hope we'd go with someone younger with fresh ideas, but I'm very pleased with the job he's done so far. I just wish he had another starter in his gift bag.

Also, this idea that the Astros should rebuild is ridiculous. Rebuild with what? They had the worst farm system in the majors last year and only Oswalt would return top prospects. So then we'd have Pence Towles, Bourn and 2-3 more solid prospects and the rest of the team a gaping hole.

Wade did what he could to buy the organization time to get the farm system up to speed. It's gonna take a few years, but at least the Astros should come close to .500 and might even challenge for a playoff spot in such a weak division.

I'm sorry...in response to the emailer that mentioned Davies for Dotel as being one of the worst trades in MLB history...that trade would be far from it. How about having your favorite team trade one of your best players(Aramis Ramirez) for the likes of Jose Hernandez and Bobby Hill. THEN...having your GM ship out your starting CFer and first basemen (Kenny Lofton and Randall Simon) for the likes of Jody Gerut. That week was possibly the worst week in the past 15 years of terrible weeks for the Pittsburgh Pirates.

baseballguru: as much as i would love to get rid of thome, that trade would never happen, it would never even be thought of. Giant fans will obviously think its too much to give; sox players should be happy with it.

overall, i wouldn't mind it

to add: if that happened, swisher in right, konerko at first, dye at DH... that would be a dream come true

Guru’s trade makes a good bit of sense in that is would answer 1 hole for the Giants and the possible answer for an other infield corner.

The only thing is both players Crede & Thome would be gone with in 1-2 seasons ( depending if option of ’09 is picked up for Thome) leaving the Giants with just Richar to compete with Frandsen, Velez etc for who will make it past AAAA by 2010. Meanwhile the Sox would have team control over Lowry & Davis tell at least 2010. In another division or another season or if still had Bonds it would make a lot of sense for the Giants but not given current conditions. That being said this would be exactly Sabean’s cup of tea. Personally I would say the Giants are better offer just standing pat. It's take it like a man time for Giants fans.

baseballguru, I think that would be a good trade. But does anyone know if Thome has a "no trade" clause. He's from Peoria. My guess is, if he has a "no trade", he would not want to go to the west coast.

Guys, I checked it out. Thome has a full "no trade" contract. I don't see him leaving Chicago this year.

Which means if it was waived the acquiring team ( Giants or some one else) would probably have to guarantee the option money ( 10 million). That said not sure if that would be enough to entice him from playing near home.

Crede makes no sense for the Giants.. We need to get younger and break up the log jam of young prospect being blocked by Old Farts. We don't need to add another old broken down player..

Sabean should pursue young Corner IFs.. I think this makes perfect sense for all teams..

Randy Winn + money for Kevin Kouzmanoff.

Jonathon Sanchez and maybe another low level prospect for Joey Vatto.

Winn is a much needed corner infielder/1-2 hitter for the Padreswho plays solid D and has experience in the NL West.

Sanchez was in the same spot last year as Vatto is this year.. a high ceiling prospect ready to prove that he can play.. Sanchez gives the Reds pitching depth and doesn't really hurt them in terms of losing a bat for the future with the other young guys they got.

ok, if we take away stats completely and just look at crede going to the giants... it's not a bad idea in that he doesn't block anyone longterm or really short term, it just provides a year of young vet player while the other young guys on the giants get more acclamated to the bigs. For $5.1mil, i think that's a great deal. But I do agree Ohan that the giants need toget younger, along with the chisox. but if you don't look at stats (and i know that's crazy) it makes a ton of sense for the giants to grab him if the price is right.

And no, i don't expect a cain or lincecum or lowry, but i'd love to see correia on the sox

I am pretty solidly in the NOT Crede camp. ( I have been known to call him Feliz Lite and why trade for a health risk version of what you just had and were unhappy with?) But really Thome and Crede would block no one. Maybe Ortmeire? But then Thome is not likely to play the field a full 130+ games so it would fit the Sabean/Botchy way of doing things. If the right combination could be worked out were the Giants are not eating contracts and giving the White Sox cheap help to rebuild their team on the fly at the same time something might be achievable.

My way of thinking the White Sox would have to give more otherwise the Giants are looking at paying 33 million ( 5 million for Crede ‘08, + 14 mill Thome ‘08, + 13 million Thome ‘09 to get him to wave his no trade ) while the Sox would be assuming 27.25 million ( 6.5 million Roberts ‘08, + 6.5 million Roberts ‘09, + 7.5 million Durham ‘08 + 2.25 million Lowry ‘08 + 4.5 million Lowry ‘09). Richar does not fill a big enough need to even make this near a wash.

Contracts numbers lifted from Cot’s.

As for Votto I don’t think the Reds ship him for Sanchez. I would like it but is does not seem likely to me. Votto is younger, looks to be much closer to being ready to positively contribute on the MLB level then Sanchez and the Reds are in a division that a couple breaks in their favor and they are in the running.

Whitesonfan24 the one problem on the Giants moving Corriea is that probably forces the Giants to have 3 lefties as starters. None of them would be death on right handed batters. That seems to be not the wisest idea when playing half your games at Mays Field. Team controlled years and contract costs aside.

dave, another reason for Kenny Williams to keep Thome is he only pays him 7 million this year. Phillie was on the hook for the rest. But Thome loves Chicago and he doesn't need the extra 13 million. I think he stays. If the White Sox want something for him they will wait until the break, when they are out of it, to find someplace in the midwest that he "might" agree to. My guess is he wants to finish his career here and will take a big discount in 2009 to do it.

Thanks for the heads up Swishermvp. Good for Thome if he can help make it happen the way he wants.

daveinexile, you guys having three lefties would lead me to ask for lowry, but i cannot see that happening... but i would love another lefty on the chisox staff

"Giants get:
Joe Crede 3B
Jim Thome 1B
Danny Richar 2B

White Sox get:
Noah Lowry SP
Ray Durham 2B
Rajai Davis CF
Dave Roberts OF"

That trade would never happen. KW has made some terrible deseicons as a gm, but If he were to do this, he should be fired on the spot. Terrible idea.

I agree this trade would never happen, but how can you say that this is a terrible trade for the sox? thome is old, productive but not worth the money, crede's time in chitown has expired... gettin rid of richar is the only bad part

dye can move to the dh, we will get crazy depth in the OF with a vet 2b for a lil while as ramirez matures and fields can slip into 3b

Whitesox24: Off the top of my head the main candidates going into spring training for the #5 starter will be Correia ( R), Sanchez (L) and Misch (L).

The farmhand watchers seem to think Misch ( mostly in AAA last year yet called up end of ‘07 with an uninspiring line in 4 games he started) will be Lowry like and he is nearing close to being MLB ready has he will get. Sanchez desperately needs to be given a role and let him learn it a while. If he ever harnesses his stuff he could be the be very good lefty but I would be surprised if he was ready to start on the MLB level by May. Just my opinion. A half season of regular work could put the Giants in a very favorable spot come July but as of right now those are 2 fair sized question marks along with a smaller one in Corriea.

So I think the Giants are better off standing pat a bit unless a deal comes a long that converts one of them into a controllable young position player not of the 3rd-4th outfielder or possible Second baseman types.

First off, I am not a Giants or White Sox fan, but I do immerse myself in baseball on a regular basis and pride myself on having a comprehensive knowledge of all teams and farm systems OR I do the research to fill in the gaps of knowledge that I don't have. Also, my brother-in-law is a HUGE Giants fan from Modesto and we talk about them at great length and so I get an active perspective on the players from someone that doesn't ever really miss a game!

I think if Thome would be unwilling to waive his no-trade clause than you could include Konerko as they are about equal, except Konerko has a lower average and OBP year in and year out. Richar gives the Giants a talented guy to play 2B with Frandsen as they can split time based on the pitcher... Richar versus righties and Frandsen versus lefties and substitutes for regulars. Within a season or two, you'll be able to have Frandsen or Richar move to SS to replace Omar and the other can stay at 2B.

Also to the Giants fan that talked some crap about getting younger, Crede is young and your problem with getting younger is half solved by sending Roberts and Durham to the ChiSox. It allows for the team to open up space for Frandsen and Richar to flourish without retracting into a rebuilding mode. Or you could just wait for Sabean to start trading for young players and signing anyone under 30, but then again you're probably young and have a couple more decades on this earth. Oh and one more thing... Since it takes roughly six to seven years for a player to reach free agency, most players that are "young" are not able to be acquired.

Let's take the Kouzmanoff scenario. You are downgrading your offense as Winn batted too far up in the lineup to produce the RBIs that he's capable of, had he batted equivalently to where Kouzmanoff did in the lineup, plus Winn is a MUCH BETTER defender and has plus speed. I can't see this even being fair straight up, let alone giving money to the Padres. That was a horrible suggestion, nice concept though, but bad idea. Getting young is crucial, but not for a guy that is super consistent, at least you know what you get from Winn every year and in addition to that, let us also not forget that Kouzmanoff plays within the same division and that is a major hurdle in any negotiations. Final reason this won't happen is that the Padres are cheap and they are not going to trade away a player that is still controlled by the team and hasn't even begun his arbitration years. That's just wishful thinking and silly to even bring up such a trade.

Players don't become available until they are arbitration eligible and with the contract set for Crede, you can't go wrong at 5.1MM. For one thing, Broussard is a bench player and makes only 1.5MM less than that, so how do you sweat his price tag or his age. OH YEAH and the Giants offense will be horrible if they don't do a trade for a 1B and 3B!! You think Aurilia at 3B is the answer?! LOL That's funny, keep doing stand up, it could be the next big thing for you!

As far as the White Sox go, they would be taking on a lot of dead contracts and hoping that they have rebounding years and the inclusion of Davis is merely a even exchange for Richar. The White Sox desperately need a productive CF and the Giants need an IF of the future to start grooming on the ML roster. This allows each team to fill a whole in their prospect depth with a strength from the other. Noah Lowry is worth Konerko or Thome, whomever would be included straight up.

The Crede thing is a hole filler for the Giants and the only reason they get him for Roberts and Durham is that he is coming off injury and that makes the two bad contracts equal to his bad contract and the excess money the ChiSox eat will balance the hefty salary of the 1B. This is a solid deal that helps everyone and as a Giants fan stated, they are all ready stacked with soft throwing lefties in SF.

This allows them to keep Zito and Misch if he breaks into the rotation in the next year-or-so without throwing two soft tossin' southpaws back-to-back. Let's also look at the positives for the Giants, they get to create a spot for Fred Lewis whose a stud and will be great in LF, they get Durham off the books and keep him from clogging 2B for another season. They improve DRASTICALLY at 1B over Aurilia and Ortmeier, who is still a year away from being ready to start, IMO.

If Crede works out GREAT, if not, then they still improved their bench, opened up a place to play for some young guys, and got better offensively at 1B, without increasing payroll + or - a couple million. If Richar and Frandsen do split time at 2B, then the other becomes a great tool off the bench, if someone in the outfield needs a day off then you can put Ortmeier in LF or RF to spell Lewis or Winn and either corner OF'er can play CF while Ortmeier is in LF or RF, so Rowand can get days off as well. They just become a very well-rounded team rather than a pitching and defense oriented club that will fight to win 80 games in a division that has MANY other great pitching teams with far more offense.

Giants get:
Joe Crede 3B
Jim Thome 1B
Danny Richar 2B

White Sox get:
Noah Lowry SP
Ray Durham 2B
Rajai Davis CF
Dave Roberts OF

On face value, this looks like a win for the White Sox. But then you have to remember:

Lowry will probably get pounded in the AL Central and U.S. Cellular. He got lucky a lot last year and wouldn't hold it together with the White Sox, I just know it. The Giants park and NL West are very weak in comparison and he had a WHIP over 1.5 and doesn't even go terribly deep into games. I don't see what Lowry has to offer that guys like Broadway and Egbert wouldn't.

Ray Durham offers no upside whatsoever and would probably end up an expensive bench player for a year.

Davis is good, but the White Sox don't really have a place for him. If the Sox could somehow get rid of Konerko or Dye it might make sense, but not Jim Thome, who is very productive still but only as a DH and as mentioned, I highly doubt he would leave his home area to go from an average team to a really bad team. And then play a position, too? Yeah right.

Roberts is basically Scott Podsednik but more expensive. They have a younger, cheaper and better version in Owens, who by the way is basically a left handed Davis(same glove, slightly better speed, slightly worse bat).

Richar is looked upon by the Sox as the 2B of the future and like him too much for one player who would do well(Davis).

The only thing that deal would do is trade dead weight for dead weight, and worse dead weight at that. I think a small, simple Crede for a young pitcher straight up deal would work out for everyone. Not Lincecum or Cain of course but maybe Correia or a Giants prospect(Sosa or Tanner) but that would be best case scenario as a Sox fan.

You should try reading more than just one post! The Thome issue was brought up long ago and we all ready covered that with conversation of including Konerko.

Also, they have a couple 2B and a SS (Cabrera) that has taken time away from Cintron and Uribe. Your F.O. dislikes most of your OF prospects immensely and Owens is not in the long term plans of the team. They are so thrilled with their options that they traded two potential aces and one of the aforementioned OF'ers for a corner OF/1B to play CF?! Seriously?! No really, you honestly believe the crap you wrote down without thinking it sounded a little biased?! WOW! Okay, I took my quiet time and have returned to finish my post... I think you greatly underestimate the value of Durham considering he was batting in an RBI spot and saw less fastballs than he would on the ChiSox hitting in front of the 3-6 hitters. Just read everything, it's pretty easy to understand and just remember you are talking about moving a 3B **(go to the bottom of the post and look for ** to read more about this) with back problems that hasn't played in 10 months, for a young pitcher who has performed admirably, such as Sanchez, Correia, or Misch?! Keep smokin' that sh*t! You are dealing with Sabean and he all ready lost face over a trade for guy named A.J. from the Twins and he isn't going to make a similar mistake. He'll want at least a couple pieces back, so he can at least have one feather to stick in his hat should the other guy be worthless and he has to rationalize giving up a talented young starter! This is more than fair as Crede is as much dead weight as Durham and/or Roberts! Also, if you want to play that projected numbers game, then take the best season Crede had multiply by 80% and then take the remaining number and multiply again by 85%. The 80% is for the effect of his back on his 2008 performance, the only year still under contract. The 85% is for the effect of going to said "more spacious and pitcher friendly ball park (Pac Bell)," with better rotations top to bottom coming through there from their own division than Chicago faces. If you want to be petty and show your less than knowledgeable arguments to the rest of the site, at least don't leave yourself open to getting bitch slapped like ho who didn't pay her pimp! Disagree if you want, but don't make it sound like it's ridiculous, you are far more off base with your analysis than I ever was!

** It's the most physically demanding position outside of catcher and it the lack of mobility required is the answer to the question about to be posed that references Cal Ripken Jr., he endured more wear and tear on his body to play there because he had no range for SS anymore and wouldn't move to 1B.

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