Angelos Gives MacPhail Permission To Move Roberts

WOOHOO!! FINALLY!! LET IT END!!

I thought this WAS BrianRobertsTradeRumors.com. Huh. Weird.

How about just OriolesTradeRumors.com? Between this roberts rumor, the Bedard rumors, and the analysis of the Tejada trade... it's probably a good bet that the Orioles ruled the site this offseason.

It's good to see that this thing may finally be heading into the home stretch, and that both the Cubs and Orioles can finally get onto business of setting up their teams by Opening Day.

Permission? What was it, like a signed note from your mother? Poor Andy McPhail... "Hey Andy, wanna play?" "Hold on, I gotta talk to my mom."

Funny, I thought this was JohanSantanaAndErikBedardTradeRumors.com.

Bxsquad: Thanks. I knew it wasn't a note from his mother. And so? What is your conclusion? Should a GM have to worry about the owners' personal affections? Or are you sayinng that this is the only time that Angelos has gotten involved in a deal, a kind of special case? I thought Angelos' problem was that he always intervened...

And bxsquad, you should read a little more closely. This piece was written by Cork.

Jr,

The real point is that this isnt news in any way shape or form and doesn’t mean a damn freakin thing as a whole. This is some Cubs area announcer saying something that may or may not be true, may or may not be recent, or may or may not even have ever been an issue to begin with. This is all just speculative nonsense and non-rumor filler given to listeners/readers because reporters need to keep peoples attention. There is no point to this entire post, and to make a comment attempting to bash Angelos over this pointless post based off speculative filler leaves you wide open for people to call you out.

Truth is that the media has tried to make Angelo’s involvement in the recent Tejada/Bedard/Roberts talks into a story where there doesn’t seem to have ever really been one to begin with. Its insane that we have to keep hearing the same speculative bull like this just because someone is reaching to find a story…

"2) I know we have been beating this dead horse all the way to the glue factory , but what else is there to talk about??? Shawn Green retiring???? Where is Kenny Lofton going to play??? or lets get the roid talk going again and how Barry was unaware that he was taking them."

...But there is a difference between beating a dead horse and talking about absolutely nothing. The "Brian Roberts Rumors" thread is beating a dead horse. The "Brian Roberts Auditions For Cubs' Scouts" and this "Angelos Gives MacPhail Permission To Move Roberts" threads are the ones which are talking about nothing. There is nothing here, there is no news or information or anything to the extent. They are speculative filler topics based off speculative filler given by reporters. There is absolutely no reason that these two threads were not just updates to the "Brian Roberts Rumors" thread that was on the front page to begin with...

Darkstar, why are you such an unabashed apologist for Angelos? He has a history of doing exactly what eveyone is accusing him of. He has a huge ego and obvious control issues. That's not going to change. And you're distrustful of the media when they say Angelos is involved but you give it all sorts of credence when the media writes those same reports are false. You can't just pick and choose. In the case of the Bedard deal, it could have been just as likely that Angelos did, in fact, withhold permission temporarily and when it leaked to the media, the Orioles PR staff did their best to play it down. McPhail puts out a story that he doesn't need to get Angelos permission. Why? Because that would undermine his authority when trying to make future deals, not to mention reinforce the O's as a laughingstock right when they're trying to re-build a new image and a new team. I'm not saying the reports are necessarily true but it would fit Angelos career pattern and the Orioles are trying to distance themselves from that perception -- of course, they'll deny it. Their fans, understandably, are sensitive about the image Angelos portrays for their club and would love for it to just go away. It doesn't mean it has. If you think Angelos is suddenly going to relinquish control than that seems a bit naive. I don't think he could do it if he tried.

And Bruce Levine is not an announcer, he's a talented and well-respected reporter that has excellent relationships with baseball insiders. He has scooped better known names in Chicago - and nationally - routinely. The next time you read an ESPN story about "breaking news" out of Chicago, I'll bet you it starts with the phrase, "Bruce Levine of ESPN 1000 has learned that..."

For what it's worth, the fact that Chicago scouts were there watching Roberts was mentioned during the radio coverage of the games. During today's game, Roberts wasn't even at the park and it was mentioned that the Cub scout left the stadium as soon as he found out Roberts wasn't playing today. Are the radio announcers making stuff up too?

Angelos has made it easy to toss this stuff around and for anyone that has followed the Orioles over the last decade knows that Angelos has a rep for this stuff. Now, I'm not saying some of it wasn't made up, but you can't just automatically assume that it's made up. I would put money on Angelos having something to do with the Bedard and Roberts trades being held up. Was it to the extent reported? Who knows, but I'm sure he played a part. Angelos giving permission is huge and also a huge relief for Orioles fans. Cubs' scouts watching Roberts is also significant just as us scouting Chicago's prospects is; it tells that the trades are moving.

There are also three posts reguarding Kyle Lohse but no one says anything about that being a problem. Right now, the Brian Roberts trade talks are the biggest thing happening in baseball and it's going to be reported on until it's over with just as Bedard and Santana dominated the headlines while those deals were going on.

Well said, seshomaru...

“Darkstar, why are you such an unabashed apologist for Angelos?”

…I’m not at all in any way, I just don’t see why so many damn people insist on talking about this when it may or may not even really be the case. People have whined and cried about Angelos being this big bad controlling owner all offseason when there has been absolutely nothing saying its really the case other than the speculating filler “reporting” which it obviously is.

“You can't just pick and choose. In the case of the Bedard deal, it could have been just as likely that Angelos did, in fact, withhold permission temporarily and when it leaked to the media, the Orioles PR staff did their best to play it down.”

…From his commute to the hospital to have surgery done right? I mean that’s when we were told that he was squashing the deal because he didn’t like Jones’ comments, but that lasted all of about 24 hours where he was apparently no where near his office. Stuff like reporting “he is in the hospital” is something you can give some credence to; stuff like “Angelos might have squashed a deal” is just reaching, trying to find something to say…

“And Bruce Levine is not an announcer, he's a talented and well-respected reporter that has excellent relationship”

…Sorry, “radio-reporter” ~ does correcting that small typo make a difference what so ever? Still seems like a whole bunch of nothing being reported here no matter what you call him…

People like to speculate, darkstar, that's what draws people to this site. And I think Angelos could have communicated even though he wasn't anywhere near his office. Somehow I don't see Angelos kicking back watching the soaps. I'm sure he's always in touch with his people, whether he's in a hospital bed, his office, on his commute or in the Bahamas.

I care. Orioles fans care. Cubs fans excited about getting Roberts care. Just because it doesn't matter to you must mean it shouldn't matter to anyone else either, right? Why even read the thread if you're just going to complain about it's contents? I'll make a note of that. If it doesn't matter to you, it shouldn't matter to me either unless it's about Kyle Lohse.

Wonder if we could trick the Orioles into taking Les Walrond and Jason Marquis for Brian Roberts if we bait McPhail with a shiny new 2008 Matt Murton hybrid SUOFV(sports utility outfielder vehicle).

"Wonder if we could trick the Orioles into taking Les Walrond and Jason Marquis for Brian Roberts if we bait McPhail with a shiny new 2008 Matt Murton hybrid SUOFV(sports utility outfielder vehicle)."

Too funny. Tim will disagree but IMO, Marquis is starting to have negative value. Go to Chicagotribune and look at Marquis' comments after todays game. The guy gets rocked and has the audacity to tell the media " the team should start me or trade me". The fact that 1) he sucks and 2) hes making over $16 mil the next 2 years is a disaster if your trying to move him. Supposedly Boston scouts were at the game today. Im sure they are on the phone with Theo giving him a resounding " NO FRIGGIN WAY". Sox would be better off with Tavarez then Marquis anyway.

Forlife..you're right. He's got a lot of nerve saying that to the reporters. He looked awful today. Wood did too, although he was throwing 96mph...

I think today showed us how useless (hitting-wise) Fuld, Pie, Cedeno, Cintron, and some others are. They were batting against AA pitchers and not making much contact. The only people who hit today were Soto, Murton, Fontenot, and Fox.

It's just me, but I'd keep Murton as a 4th outfielder to give Soriano his days off (as Piniella said he'd get this year) and to provide some right handed platooning for Fukodome in right. We're also going to need him when Soriano either tears a hamstring or quad during the season. I don't know about you, but in the event of an injury I don't like the prospect of Fuld, Pie, and Fukodome in the outfielder. Jeesh...

“This isn't a news site, Darkstar, this is a rumor site. You can always start a blog called mlbverifiedfactsfromimpeccablesources.com but on this site the rumors ARE the news. As for Ethier, it sounds like a good rumor to me. I'd be interested in reading about it, though I'm a Cub fan and the Roberts saga interests me more. Maybe you can send Cork an e-mail.”

But the point is, the Ethier thing isnt news either; it isnt something with any credence and has nothing to do with anything really on the grand scale. Some guy saying “well maybe this or this” isnt a trade rumor ~ its some guy talking; and in turn it isnt “news” with regard to the news this site is intended to provide (which is to give actual rumors). This thread is some guy talking, nothing more. And its some guy talking about something that has been talked about thousands of times in the past in a “will he, wont he, maybe he has, maybe he wont, maybe he did, maybe he didn’t, maybe he could” kind of way. Some random localized guy talking about what he thinks isnt a rumor, and that means it isnt news with regard to the news this site is intent on providing, and that means it doesn’t really need to be present here; or if it must then it still doesn’t need its own thread if there are two similar threads on the page to begin with.

But lets think about what is good for the site for a second. This topic reporting what some guy thinks might be the case became the 3rd Brian Roberts thread on the main page; two of which didn’t really need to be here. That means 2 threads were dropped off of the main page which might have involved something not involving Brian Roberts speculation. What do you think will bring in more readers, 3 threads saying little to nothing about Brian Roberts or 1 thread about Roberts and 2 other threads about 2 completely different things? You can still get your “Cubs area ESPN guy says maybe Angelos said ok” stuff in, it just wouldn’t have its own thread which would mean other people have other things they can read about on the main page. And entire thread about this is pointless though, its basically nothing to begin with and take up space of something which may actually interest someone other than a Cubs or Orioles fan.

Dark, start your own site or stop posting on threads u don't like. Its really not that hard, unless you just want to complain, which seems to be the case. These threads are getting more posts than the others, so id say its a good idea.

Darkstar's comments are so long, repetitive, and tangented I largely skip past them. Try to make your point in 3-4 sentences like everyone else (if you must post on threads you find are "talking about absolutely nothing." Then you are writing short novels talking about "talking about absolutely nothing!" ZZZ
There must be another post for you like Roger Clemens or the shortage of shortstops. (see...4 sentences!)

Yikes....I just read the trib artical about Marquis. I am a marquis supporter but man, how can he say that. And Lou....we'll he aint happy. I think this is a lot about nothing but it's only gonna get worse i feel.

"Dark, start your own site or stop posting on threads u don't like. Its really not that hard, unless you just want to complain, which seems to be the case. These threads are getting more posts than the others, so id say its a good idea."

...Oh yeah, I know ~ all the Cubs and O's fans probably dont like someone questioning why we are getting continual posts on the same topic where most have nothing newsworthy behind them.

Yeah, all you guys are right; I have come to the light and see your points now... I too have come to the point where I want 6 or 7 new threads a day telling us what Roberts had for breakfast and if he slept on the left or right side of the bed or if he wore a blue blazer with his grey slacks or a grey blazer with his blue slacks. Oh, and if some random localized reporter says that there might be a possibility that something which may or may not have been an issue, may or may not have been addressed, possibly recently or possibly way in the past, then I want to make sure I am updated here instantly in as many threads as possible! Why even bother with other posts, lets see if we can get it to all Brian Roberts non-update updates and we can all sit in circles singing songs and drinking cool aid…

I'm going with the left side of the bed. He was always better from the left side.

LOL Sess, post more your pretty funny. And dark you alone have shown me the error of my ways. This Hoosier that just moved to Oklahoma is going to step outside and publicly flogg myself...I can't think of a better way to meet my neighbors. BRB

I'm sorry, I missed it. Did Roberts wear the blue blazer or the gray one. I heard he just wore a sweater.

What is the deal with this darkstar guy? Does he derive pleasure from being a buzzkilling D-bag?

Just to let you "same 5-10 guys" know, I enjoy reading all your B.S. about this trade. I check this site everyday to see the latest on this trade and I couldn't care less who has a problem with it. Why should I/we? Don't let some worm crap in OUR oatmeal. He is just some miserable turd with nothing better to do than whine from his mama's basement.

finally we finally start going somewhere with this and all u orioles fans go write o n ur guyses homeppage u guys r just mad that the cubbies r going to finally get roberts...(they better)... Well they better get him...lol..

I agree, the O's fans have been cool. I/We may not agree all the time, but it has been good baseball conversation none the less.

I also need to take a minute to applaud ibleedblue...that is just wonderful work. You said what everyone is thinking...and it had to be said.

Dark...stop posting if you don't like it. The fact is, if you have a problem with it and wanted to handle it maturely, there is a link to email Tim and voice your complaint. However, you decide that you want to whine about it in front of everyone and post on a thread that you say you are against. It's childish...grow up.

"Don't let some worm crap in OUR oatmeal."

If Brian Roberts was a worm, what kind of worm would he be? Which side of the oatmeal would he crap on? Would he crap on it before it was cooked or after? Would he make tunnels through the oatmeal or would he crap on the surface and if he made tunnels, how many would he make?

That's it! We need another Brian Roberts thread to properly discuss this.

wow sess,
I don't even know where to begin with that last one....All I know is you remind me of a buddy of mine with all that last bit of craziness. You gotta get me the hook up bro, cuz you're smokin something better than what I got!

Yeah, yeah, yeah ~ I’m a “D-bag” and a “worm” and whatever else because I said this isnt really an actual rumor, doesn’t actually say anything and didn’t deserve an actual thread of its own… (esp since there was two other non-informative Roberts “rumors” already on the front page) I said it may or may not really even be true, may or may not have been based on something recent and may or may not have been relevant anyway, so I deserve all the 13YO Cubs fans ranting and raving about… well, who knows what they are saying really ~ they are mainly just trying to bash me…

You all wonder why people think you guys are pitiful then you guy rant and rave one after the other over something as simple as THIS ISNT A RUMOR AND DOESN’T NEED A THREAD. Its just mind-boggling that an entire fan base can apparently be so ignorant as to give the responses like we see… Its sad that Cubs an overwhelming amount of childish Cubs fans generally flood all the Cubs posts with single-minded bias thinking and immature attacks if they don’t like what they hear. Guys like Basemonkey tried to have logical honest conversations with you guys but eventually gave up realizing that its absolutely impossible because of the bias, illogical and close-minded thinking. And we next to never hear other peoples thoughts on the topics because they just stay away from the Cubs threads ~ gee, wonder why?

I really do question whether a single one of you guys is even out of your teens, it really doesn’t seem like its possible that any of you really are… I guess feeding you Cubs trolls keeps Tims traffic at a huge level, but man it’s the one teams posts which is pretty much guaranteed to become absolute trash because of the fan base that frequents this site…

By the way , I'm 37 . I just refuse to act like a bitter old person because life is too short and one can never stop learning and having fun .

EXACTLY HAWKEYE!!! It's a shame to have to swim through self serving posters (DARK), post about nothing but themselves. Dark you are such a fan of going back to old threads and looking up what people say, why don't you look up yourself. If you do I guarantee you start out by bashing thread topics, poster bias, etc. etc. Then when people respond, you start in on your *(I'm above it all, why pick on me) BS. You turn the whole discussions into a DARK topic (no pun intended).... Talk about boring! Oh, by the way, is a troll a person that goes to other team threads/boards and start negativity? You need to look in a mirror.
P.S. When you actually talk about baseball your really not that bad.

Like I said dark, if you were being mature and had a complaint about it, you would simply email tim. However, you choose to go the immature trolling route and come on about the 1000th cubs thread to start negativity. Sad...

By the way, did you actually try and say above that you try and avoid cubs threads??

HaHaHa! You are easily the person with no affiliation to the cubs and O's that comes on them the most! And you don't contribute, you just ruin it for everyone. Age shouldn't matter here, its knowledge that matters. Believe it or not, you could learn a little bit from people if you would just shut up once in awhile. And by the way, im married with kids, so stop with the whole teenage stuff, you just continue to embarass yourself.

Darkstar....you should just change your name to Bitterstar and get it over with.

Well. As to Angelos... It's too soon to tell to what degree he's letting MacPhail run things. The Tejada and Bedard deals are very good signs, but, given his past history, it's natural to withhold judgment. I do think, though, that the Press, in general, is given to kneejerk reactions--"oh, Angelos is mucking things up"--that are not necessarily rooted in reality. Speculation presented as fact. Speculation rooted in someone else's speculation, and presented as fact.

One consequence is that Angelos doing what most (all?) owners do is often perceived as unusual. It is my impression that any general manager trading a player of the established quality of Tejada, Bedard, or Roberts would run it by his owner. So, what does it mean when we read that "Angelos gives MacPhail permission"? It could be as simple as the usual courtesy sign off we would hope for. MacPhail wants to do it; Angelos says yes. That's not necessarily unusual, at all. Would Epstein trade Ortiz without running it by upper management, including Henry? I doubt it.

Is there more to it in this instance? Who is to say other than Angelos or MacPhail, but it's natural to wonder, of course, given past instances. Still, as we're getting it in Baltimore, as opposed to how it's being put by these speculating national columnists, I sense that MacPhail is essentially able to do as he wants.

“I am the managing partner, so I have to take the heat. And I make the decisions, so I should take the heat.”

and

“Every deal … is always presented to the person who is the managing partner, whether it’s the signing of a super athlete at a great expense or even a mid-level athlete that has to pass by the managing partner for financial reasons.”

Two quotes from Angelos last year during spring training with regard to the deal that was nixed with the Braves involving Roberts and Penn for Giles and LaRoche.

Reporting that a green light has been given to a Roberts deal is significant because that had not been the case in the past, and seems consistent with what the O's and MacPhail have done this off-season. Whether it's a deal with the Cubs remains to be seen.

To expect anything more than a report with unnamed sources or speculation at this point is unrealistic, from both a business and human standpoint. A GM or owner stating that a deal will/must get done reduces leverage and naming players that may or may not be involved is just plain irresponsible.

I believe Roberts will be traded and that the Cubs are a decent fit. Not only do they have some pitching that can be moved (Gallagher of course has been mentioned plenty, Lahey? Ascanio?) but some middle infielders as well (Cedeno, E. Patterson, or even Tony Thomas if he's available).

While posting Bruce Levine's report was not anything earth-shattering, it did have it's merits, and most definitely was not irresponsible or malicious in any way.