Cubs Eyeing Coco

I don't see how he would be an upgrade over Pie, who hit lefty. I'm not understanding the Cubs unwillingness to play the kid.

There was one report that said that it would be Crisp going to Chicago for Jason Marquis and Sam Fuld. That seems plausible but I gotta say thats a good deal for Chicago.

No way in hell the Cubs give up all that for Roberts. I would give up either Gallagher or Pie but not both. I would give up Gallagher, Veal, Cedeno and Patterson

nightshift83

that trade would be horrible we lose all our pitching depth so were forced to stick out the whole season with Lieber and Dempster as our 4 and 5 guys then get rid of Pie and get payton/crisp back so we would be taking 2 over payed players in payton and crisp and have no back ups for them cuz if we get them they would put up the same offensive numbers as Pie would(which I think Pie could be better then them offensively) and be worse then him defensively

I think it does have an effect on the Baltimore trade, but not because we're now going to throw in Pie. If we get Crisp, a left-hander and potential (read: potential) top of the order guy, we regain some leverage from the O's because we suggest that we can fill our needs elsewhere. I like the idea, if he can be had cheap:

Crisp = Wuertz + Donaldson

Consider the source.

"Felix Pie: His biggest accomplishment of the spring is hitting two home runs, which is fine. But after having it pounded into his head for years to play the little-man's game, it's not the kind of skill he needs to show to be of any use to the team."

Anyone who actually writes that down, lets others read it and considers it an even slightly acceptable forever loses the right to have anything they ever say taken seriously.

While Crisp doesn't have a ton of value to the Red Sox, he can still be useful. Who doesn't like to have a switch hitting/speedy/ gold glove caliber outfielder on the bench (even if he is overpaid).

Marquis however, would provide negative value. When he can't strike anyone out, and walks too many batters in the NL, what will line-ups like the Yankees, Indians, and Tigers do to this guy? If he made 30 starts (durability being his only skill) for the Red Sox, I bet the WS champs would not make the playoffs.

Is this a player you trade for? The kids (Lester and Buchholz + AAA filler) will easily do more for the Red Sox.

I wonder if Theo remembers the Jeff Suppan experiment.

IF this is true, and the Cubs are thinking about Crisp for CF & LO then two things instantly stand out ~ A) The Cubs might be out of it for Roberts (unless Pie is dealt to the O’s) and B) Pie isnt necessarily the CF anymore, they might be giving up on him. When the Cubs are looking at Payton or Byrd its obviously for a back-up job, Crisp isnt such a sure-thing backup though, so… This post says Crisp should be starting over Pie, and Pie isnt going to grow out of his problems sitting on the bench.

Maybe we do see the Cubs pulling in Crisp then trying to send Pie + Gallagher + Pitcher (like the O’s said they wanted) for Roberts, or Cedeno and Payton (and possibly Marquis) being added in somewhere as well. Otherwise it sounds like Crisp is the target for the starter spot more than anything, with Pie continuing to be stunted in his growth.

Oh, and if anything, this would hurt the Cubs standing on the Roberts situation. It would almost certainly create bigger 25-Man issues for the Cubs than they already have (well unless Murton & Cedeno go to Boston, which is probably slim odds) and mean more prospects are only blocked further ~ ie, losing more value since they are even more of spare parts. If the team brings in Crisp for 2 years, a deal to Balt for Roberts & Payton for Pie + Gallagher + Pitcher (like they said they wanted) makes more sense then ever really, and the O’s will be trying to capitalize off of that…

I don't see a good fit with the Cubs. I have been saying Seattle is a great fit for awhile now. Crisp is far more productive than Wilkerson and Ichiro is one of the best right fielders in the game where he is just considerably above average in center.

The Orioles see their potential trading partner positioning themselves to move on. How is that a strategic advantage for them?

Yecch. What does Crisp give you that Pie doesn't? Switch-hitting, I guess. Maybe some veteran experience? I don't care if we trade a bag of balls for Crisp, I'm not sure I like this idea. I hope it's just another one of Wittemeyer's deranged notions. But Pie is his equal in the field, superior with arm and I'm sure he can muster out a .320-.330 OBP if you give him the chance.
And if the Cubs acquire Crisp, do you really want Pie to rot on the bench? How exactly does he get better? He's made a lot of progress this spring... and the Cubs are just going to stunt it now? The only thing I can think of is that the Cubs are getting cold feet relying on too many rookies/first year players.
And dark, I hope you're not right that the solution is dealing Pie for Roberts but it does make some sense. There is a split in the Cubs organization as to who the CF of the future is - with the new guard (Wilken and his scouts) favoring Colvin. If the Cubs move, or even just bench Pie, it's obvious to see who's opinion is winning out. With Crisp on for two years, it's obvious there would be no room for Pie and the Cubs may consider moving him...possibly in a Roberts deal so that they can keep more prospects in a smaller deal.
This is what I hope is really going on: the Cubs are using Wittemeyer as a tool (appropriate, I know) to let the Oriole's know they have other options. This could all be nothing but hot air.

Cubs fans need to get a grasp on a new concept: contending.

Contending teams don't take a lot of chances on "maybe" guys who have failed in the past but COULD develop.

Pie and Cedeno are perfect examples. Both have failed in their trials to date, yet Cubs fans show true attachment to both. Winning teams only have a limited window of opportunity, and it's important to seize the bull by the horns and go for it.

Hendry showed a similar attachment to Angel Guzman back in '03/'04 and his reluctance to include Guzman in a deal for a closer cost Chicago dearly.

Crisp and Roberts are exactly the type of players a contending team can use, yet Cubs fans here quibble over paying "too much" or want to rely on the development of internal options. Joe Girardi was the last position player Chicago developed into an All Star and one would think that winning NOW would take precedent over whether a particular rookie pans out or not. It's been 100 years, for crying out loud!

If the cost of doing business seems high, so be it. That's the cost of contending. Make the moves that put this team over the top, and enjoy the moment. Living for tomorrow holds no guarantee that tomorrow will ever come.

Roberts...yes. That makes sense. Crisp? No. He's an overrated player who doesn't provide anything that Pie doesn't He doesn't give us the one thing that is still a glaring weak spot-- leadoff man. It seems to me Boston got better when Crisp lost his job.
Overpaying for Roberts, if the trade goes through, will probably happen. Overpaying for Crisp is a bad move. He's not the kind of guy that "puts you over the top". And trading ANYTHING for Crisp is overpaying when you've got a guy in Pie does everything Crisp does except switch hit and whine. Let's get a backup type to fill in for Pie and forget this hare-brained idea.

But Gogo, Roberts really is that to the Cubs. He dramatically increases the lineup on a trickle down scale because his tools meet the desires/needs perfectly. It also moves the Solid but coming out of his peak-age-range DeRosa to Super-Sub where he covers Ramirez at 3B, Roberts at 2B, the corner OF spots and possibly even SS or 1B from time to time. In the AL he is the DH; as it stands now though that would be covered by Ward or Cedeno (because Murton will have to be removed from the 25-man for a back-up CFer). Its extreme, and to hold off because Pie is showing Corey Patterson like possibilities and results, well… Like Devlsh said, if including Pie lowers the amount of low-minors guys the O’s get (because it gives them their #1 target) where he will be wasted and probably regressing behind Crisp anyway…

See, if you play Pie then he has a chance to get better. This Crisp interest/story implies they wont play Pie though, at which point Pie is even more likely to go down the Corey road. If there is a deal to get Crisp and offer him real playing time then I think you almost have to deal Pie to Balt for Roberts and atleast get some value out of him. Holding onto him at that point though, well his value will only plummet further and he probably wont be used for 2 years anyway…

BP likes Pie too. Pie plays some great defense with a beter arm. No matter how good Crisp in the field, there probably isn't a big enough difference -- if any. And Crisp isn't such a great hitter, OBP guy or basestealer where he makes up ground there either. So why overpay for Crisp? Like I said, I'd be OK with the Cubs overpaying for Roberts a little, he's a difference maker...but not Crisp. In fact, I don't really want the Cubs to underpay for Crisp either. Boston can keep him.

Alright, first of all, I wouldn't say Pie has "failed"....he's had 177 ABs for Christ' sake. Hardly enough to prove whether he's worthy or not. Let's see stats from Pujols, A-Rod, etc first 177 ABs. It takes more time to really see what the kid is doing.

Pie is 8 for 27 this spring, .387 OBP, and a .542 SLG. Not too shabby-but again, limited results. This shows we just need to give a full year out there.

I personally like the trade-it gives us depth in case Pie doesn't work out and Crisp can spell Pie, Fukodome or Soriano. We really don't need Marquis or Fuld.

"Batting a rookie with a poor batting eye in the #8 slot is a recipe for failure. Yet it seems to be the common theme here that Pie will succeed."

I totally agree with you Devish. Combine pitchers pitching around the 8th spot to get to the pitcher and a rookie expanding his strike zone to make a splash and ... well, you are correct.

Ohhh. You must mean how Arizona and Colorado rode all those "proven commodities" through the playoffs. Or like how "proven commodity" Coco Crisp lost his job to the risky unproven commodity of Ellsbury during the playoffs.
Cliches aside, Devlsh...Crisp adds nothing special. I'll pass

Does anybody know about the relative availability of Donaldson? I'd be perfectly fine if the Sox dealt Crisp for Donaldson and a relief arm. Catching is the #1 deficiency of this (and most) organization.

Jake, Donaldson is dispensible with the emergence of Soto, but he probably won't be moved because (1) He was drafted last year (he'd have to be a PTBNL), and (2) The Cubs may be holding on to Tim Wilken's picks.

"Can Pie do that? Given that Pie's offensive contributions are anything but certain at this point, what is it that Pie will provide that Crisp won't?"

Yes, Pie can do that, while having an offensive upside well higher than Crisp does.

I also agree, Patterson looked very good today. Not just with that bat (which looked great), but with the glove at 2nd as well. Hope the o's scouts were there to see that.

Felix looks great this spring. I will be mad for years and years if the Cubs trade for someone more than a guy to spell him against tough lefties.

Whoops. That's getting ahead in the "count" not the "account". Pie isn't THAT advanced yet. He'll need a few years before he gets paid.

The question is more, "What will Crisp provide that Pie won't".

Not much if any crunchy.

I'm not coo coo for coco puffs!

sure it would be nice to have Crisp as an insurance policy. But Pie should have every chance to keep the starting job. Maybe pull him if in June he still isnt hitting, but thats not likely. Theres no reason to be down on Pie.