Meche Available?

What about Kevin Millwood or Brad Penny?

JP, who would suggest replacing Meche with? Tomoko? The thought makes me want to puke Bale is still hurt, and who knows if Luke Hudson is ever coming back. As a longtime Royals fan, I am sick of seeing them sign a player, and trading him away for prospects that never pan out. It's a rare thing then they even do sign a player to a long term deal, so if anything, the Meche signing is a stepping stone to a commitment to putting a winning team on the field, although that may take longer than expected. If they are going to trade anyone, it should be Tomko, Gobble, or Yabutta. Although I think it might be tough finding a taker for any of those three.

If the Royals want their young pitchers mentored by Gil Meche, they've already lost.

Maybe the problem isn't the prospects, it could be the coaches that are helping to teach and bring up these prospects. A top prospect can be destroyed without the right coaching to help them come up. And like I said, don't give him up for just any prospects, but I bought you could get at leat couple who have prior major league experience.

Well I hope for the Royals sake that I am wrong and they just haven't acquired the right prospects, but history is not on there side. A few former Royals prospects and players, like Carlos Beltran, Johnny Damon, and Jermaine Dye,and even more recently Emil Brown (although who saw that coming honestly) have gone to have solid careers after leaving KC. I understand that fear b/c I believe players like Butler, Gordon, Teahen, and Dejesus. Even though the team is struggling I must admit, I usually travel a couple hours and go to a couple Royals games during the summer and I love the stadium. Kaufman is a beautiful stadium and I have so much fun there.

but, but , but, all the cubs have to do is dangle several "too old to be" prospects that cant even make their club and they can get whoever they want.

And not to change the subject but I heard I think on ESPN radio that the Twins might make a play for another starter if they stay in contention. Could it be Meche or my A's Joe Blanton/Rich Harden? And what would it take to get them? I think a starting point for the Royals would be Joe Benson and Tyler Robertson, but I don't see an inter division trade happening seeing as how the Royals plan to be "contenders" sooner rather than later, which would mean facing Meche 4-5 times a year.

Potential Deals: Meche to Braves for Jordan Schafer/Jason Heyward and Brent Lilbridge.

Meche to Twins for Joe Benson and Tyler Robertson

For the A's pitchers I could see Billy Beane asking for Chris Parmelee and Joe Benson/Trevor Plouffe. And the A's could throw in one of there many relievers for a thrown in.

Possible Deal: Blanton/Harden + Andrew Brown for Joe Benson, Chris Parmelee, and Deibinson Romero.

I just heard this today. And I'm just anylyzing it. I'm not going "guru" where I make ridiculos trade proposals about my team.

Sorry, but the Braves would be dumb to trade our power prospect in Heyward and our "Future star center fielder" in Schafer, for lowly old Meche. Oh and it was suggested to throw in Lil-bridge. um, no.

If that were the case, you would see that on the front page of fleeced

However,upon re reading that above, if it were JUST heyward or Schafer + lilbridge, i would say that is a possibility. And not necessarily a bad one at that

Actually I think there could be some substance to a Meche to the Cubs deal. Meche has good stuff and is durable would be a good fit in the rotation with Zambrano, Lilly, Dempster, and either Marquis or Gallagher. The Royals wouldn't ask for the sky because he's paid a lot and isn't playing all that great, but he'd still cost some good players.

I could see a deal starting with Tyler Colvin, Ronny Cedeno and maybe Kevin Hart. The Royals could use an outfield prospect if they decide to keep Hosmer at first, because the infield is pretty much set with Moustakas, Gordon and Hosmer then. Cedeno gives them a good shortstop now and for a few years, so they can stop putting out the bad hitting Pena and the bad fielding German.

Another thing I could see is the Cubs extending the deal to add David DeJesus. A Meche/DeJesus package would likely let the Royals maximize how much they could get from Chicago. Possibly something like a Pie/Cedeno/Ceda/low level prospect package?

The Cubs (well, Lou) wants a LH starter ~ Meche isnt that… Probably unlikely they target him.

“rotation with Zambrano, Lilly, Dempster, and either Marquis or Gallagher.”

Apparently the club is just about to replace Gallagher with Marshall, because of said desire for another Leftie…

Here:
“Manager Lou Pinella would like another lefty in his rotation soon, but that lefty won't be Rich Hill, according to the Chicago Sun-Times. The southpaw is still struggling with his command and mechanics since his demotion to Triple-A Iowa over a month ago.”

Meche as a whole ~ don’t see it worth trading him right now. His value to the Royals is greater than the return he will bring if the market is as overloaded with starters as it appears at this time.

Cubs get C.C. Sabathia that would be great if he wasn't having a such a terrible year. Also, Tim forgot to mention that Buster Olney said that Indians will only trade C.C only if they completely out of playoff contention. Then said it will be hard to trade young stars for him and then try to sign him. But I' am a fan of the Cubs intrested in Fuentes. I think he would be a good improvment over Howry in a set up role. I would do in the Cubs pitching management.
Trade Who ever for Fuentes.
Have
Z
Lilly
Dempster
a pitcher who they also trade for
Hart

Then
RP- Eyre
RP- Wuertz
Rp- Lieber
Rp- Howry
su- Fuentes
su- marmol
cl- wood
sounds good to me! How bout u guys

“Cubs get C.C. Sabathia that would be great if he wasn't having a such a terrible year”

…In his last 10 starts, CC has 73.1 IP, a 2.09 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 14 BB to 73 K, and 3 complete games, 2 of which were shutouts… “such a terrible year”…

“But I' am a fan of the Cubs intrested in Fuentes. I think he would be a good improvment over Howry in a set up role.”

…Howry is 2-0 1.93 ERA, 1.07 WHIP and 3 BB to 19 K in 18.1 IP since May 1st
…Fuentes is 0-1 2.84 ERA, 1.18 WHIP and 2 BB to 12 K in 12.2 IP since May 1st

Why are you replacing the guy who is pitching better with the guy you have to give up prospects for?

I don't think the Cubs have what it takes for C.C. or any starter of his caliber. Would Meche really be an improvement? They don't have the goods to get a top tier(or second tier) starter, they might as well just wait for Hill to remember how to pitch.

...well, I obviously was talking with the pretense that they would actually want to improve the team and its future. But you're right, they wouldn't want to give up Soto or Marmol.

And quite frankly I don't think they could get any of those guys without giving up too much. The Cubs don't have any quality prospects that make you really want to give up your ace for him. That could change by the deadline if Vitters really heats up but a lot of the Cubs prospects are busting.

Palehose,
We argree for the most part, but I think Hendry is going to be willing to give up a bunch to get what he would probably consider to be the last piece of the puzzle. If they got a #2, they have as good of a chance as anybody to win it.

Dark,
I agree. Howry, from what I remember, usually starts off pretty slow anyway...so you could almost call it "characteristic"! Either way, I think he will be fine. Another bullpen guy to take some of the load off of Marmol obviously wouldn't hurt though...I was hoping Wuertz would be that guy, but he has struggled lately.

“Howry, from what I remember, usually starts off pretty slow anyway...”

…Yeah, the first couple months arent generally his strongest, but he is normally fairly steady from what I remember. Either way, he’s again been one of the better setup-men the last month-month.5 and it would be pointless to bring in another upper setup type. What you will find is it will lead to more days off for everyone else, and the guys you have will not be as sharp when used. True setup/closer types seem to work best when working 5 times a week, disrupting it might prove disastrous…

“Also, palehose, I think Vitters would be the key to any Sabathia trade for sure...”

Cleveland has no use what so ever for Vitters. They have two better 3B prospects in house already, he is atleast 4-5 years away, and has been horrendous on the field in what little time he has been healthy enough to play ~ all combining to be useless to a team built to compete from now till around 2010…

I don't think Vitters is set to only play 3rd. If I remember, people wondered from the beginning if he would even stick as a 3rd basemen. He was drafted for his bat, with everyone saying he was the best pure hitter in the draft last year. Hasn't shown much yet, but in fairness, he has had a wrist injury. We'll see, but for a guy 4 years away, I think Vitters has value to about anybody considering he could end up playing LF, 3rd, 1st, or DH for an AL team. Who knows, he is a complete wildcard, but he still has pretty big upside.

"True setup/closer types seem to work best when working 5 times a week, disrupting it might prove disastrous…"

Point taken, and believe me, I would love for Marmol to pitch the 8th inning of every close game. I'm just saying that having a guy that young with that delivery pitch 100 innings could also prove to be disastrous.

Let me ask you this Dark:

Lets say CC is made available. What do you think the Indians would be interested in? I'm guessing you would say the Cubs don't have what it takes, which could very well be true, but what do you think they would be looking for as far as positional prospects?

“If I remember, people wondered from the beginning if he would even stick as a 3rd basemen.”

…Correct, making his value to the Indians limited. 1B/DH types in Cle are stacked for a long while, and easy to find anyways…

“He was drafted for his bat, with everyone saying he was the best pure hitter in the draft last year”

…Same exact thing was said about Mills that year as well…

“Lets say CC is made available. What do you think the Indians would be interested in?”

…Ace-potential starter, ML-R plus-hitting SS or 3B type, Power RF prospect about 1-2 years away. All prospects will probably be ML ready within next 3 years though, if they somehow trade CC, they wont want to wait till 2011 to see results… I really don’t see the Cubs having anything too interesting to the teams desires, a piece here or there could be used as filler but there is nothing of substance to make up a package that will interest the Tribe…

Then Pie, Hill, Murton

for

Fuentes?

How did this turn into yet ANOTHER discussion about the Cubs?

Word just in that Soriano's hand is fractured. Start up the LH leadoff hitter and/or power hitting corner outfielder rumors again, as well...

And let me speak for all Cubs fans when I say $#%&!!!!!!!!! This is awful. We really need his bat.

Cubs fans say: with Alf out, bring me Bonds. Now. Perfect situation for him, LF opening, he gets to stay in the NL, and he will have plenty of lineup protection.

Go get him Hendry.

forlife, I agree with most of what you said. The only thing I don't is when you say that Vitters has no trade value. Thats just wrong. He was the #3 pick in the draft and has a total of 55 plate appearences. To say he has no value isn't close to being true. I like veal a lot this year too, but the walks are high.

…"Oh, and if he is on a DL at this time then he cant be traded anyway ~ meaning his trade value actually would be flat out nothing at all."

Thats was really the point i was making, so yeah, he really has no trade value being on the DL. The fact that he has been out for 2 months now with hand tendinitis leads one to believe its pretty serious. Nobody wants an injured player, #3 pick or not. Truth is the clock has started ticking and through no fault of his own, he hasnt shown anything yet.

Umm...maybe because Vitters has 14 at bats this year!!!!!

So if he had one more hit, he is hitting .357 and he is a top prospect again? Thats a joke dude, come on.

The clock is ticking?? This is pathetic. He is like 18 years old with 50 at bats in the minors, and the clock is ticking?? He has been working out in Arizona and should be back soon. Please be serious with comments here, this is getting old.

"If he is on the DL then acknowledge that HE CANT BE TRADED WHILE ON THE DL, hence he has no value RIGHT NOW. When he comes off, yes he has value. But hes not, capice?? Probably not."

Yes, he is on the DL. Will he be when and if CC becomes available? Probably not. Will be be when the deadline hits? Probably not. If a deal like that was going to go down...don't you think the Cubs would just take him off the DL???? This isn't that hard.

And ForLife,

Don’t bother ~ he gets something in his head that he wants to be the case and refuses to accept anything else as ever being a possibility…

BTW,
“So if he had one more hit, he is hitting .357 and he is a top prospect again? Thats a joke dude, come on.”

…That’s not even correct ~ one more hit would put him at .285, and .154 for his career…

"esp if the one being added is a questionable one?"

Because he is a hell of a lot less questionable than most of them are, and he could end up being at 3rd, RF, or LF. The fact is that he is 18(!) with 50 at bats! No one knows where he will play for sure yet, but if you have a chance to add a guy with an all star potential ceiling, you do it. Stop making this so hard, it is not mile that seems foolish.

Man, you are seriously a freakin joke Adun…

“The point is, SAMPLE SIZE!”

…Sample size or not, he hasn’t done anything but play bad or sit on the bench because he was hurt…

“How many other "top prospects" didn't do that well in thier first 14 at bats???????????”

…Who cares? How many “top prospects” were traded as if they had value while playing 14 games and being hurt or holding out on his contract for over 90% of their minor-league career?

“Are you really arguing that his 50 at bat career shows he is a bust? Really??”

…when the F* did I ever say bust? Your inferiority complex is showing again…

“Because he is a hell of a lot less questionable than most of them are, and he could end up being at 3rd, RF, or LF.”

…How the F* do you figure that? A HS player who basically hasn’t played in pro-ball yet and is currently out with a rather major injury is more of a sure thing than guys who have been on AS teams or named MVP of their league?

“The fact is that he is 18(!) with 50 at bats!”

…why do you keep saying that, no one has ever said otherwise…

“No one knows where he will play for sure yet, but if you have a chance to add a guy with an all star potential ceiling, you do it.”

“Stop making this so hard,”

How is anyone but yuou making it so hard? You are the one who doesn’t seem able to accept the fact that Cleveland most likely wont value him highly and are somehow trying to argue God only knows what…

“it is not mile that seems foolish.”

…Mile is foolish for questioning our putting a low trade value on him then saying he has a low trade value in the same sentence… Otherwise, its you who is foolish for arguing nothing… (see below)

Keep judging small sample sizes you idiot. Just like Fukudome can't hit American pitching, right? What an absolute ret@rd.

Haha...just ignored the question again, huh? Just please shut up dude, I'm sick of reading your endless rants. You have a complex, and your issues are obvious. Go see somebody, and do it quickly.

“Haha...just ignored the question again, huh? Just please shut up dude, I'm sick of reading your endless rants. You have a complex, and your issues are obvious. Go see somebody, and do it quickly.”

…Dude, again WTF? No seriously, what the F* is your problem? What are you even talking about? Where is your point? What are you trying to argue? Where is the problem? Really, where is it? Do you even know what you are arguing against? Do you even know what your point is??? What, are your panties in a twist because I said what you said? Is that whats bother you? Are you just having a hard time accepting that I said what you said before you said it??? And no, I’m not ranting ~ that’s you; read your posts. I merely replied to your off topic, no point crap with simple sentences ~ youre the one that said it in the first place…

And I’m not ignoring any question ~ but, what is that your new obsession though? Ok, because you will chase me around in a hundred threads until you get some type of answer ~ want 1B/DH types who are under control for 3+ years from now? Wanna start with Hafner and Martinez? Then we should probably include Garko… Oh, and then we have Cleveland’s version of Matt Murton ~ Jordan Brown (2 straight league MVPs BTW). We have Perennial Masher / Perennial DL man Matt Whitney… and the list goes on and on and on… But yeah, ok ~ you refuse to believe there could be depth so that has to be the case, right? Isnt that how most of your arguments go?

Seriously, whatever…

I'm surprised no one else found something disgustingly wrong with this:

"What about

Colvin, Vitters, Veal, Ceda, Donaldson

For CC????"

Alright here we go. First I'll start off with this VITTERS IS HURT!! He hasnt played since April 21st and when he was playing he was batting .214. Enuff about Vitters, as long as he is hurt he has no value people.

Colvin?? He's batting .235 with an OBP of .308. For those keeping score, HES BAD! To quote Keith Law on Colvin " hes a 4th OF'er"

Donaldson?? Hes batting .207 with a .279 OBP, again, he too is bad.

Ceda?? 2-2 with a 4.73 ERA and was just dumped out of the rotation and into the bullpen. Boom or bust and still only in high A ball.

Veal is the only one performing decently and even he has not been great, 3-5 3.10ERA but get this, 40BB in 72 innings??

Not one "sure fire" player in this whole group.

Ok, let me start. Vitters is still a top prospect. He's barely been playing so far this year, he still has a lot of value.

Colvin has re-worked his swing so that he walks more and strikes out less. Right now he's adjusting, that's why his numbers aren't good.

It's funny how you just look at his numbers THIS YEAR and know that "he too is bad". He put up great numbers in limited time last year, and even though he's struggling this year, HE WAS A SECOND ROUND PICK LAST YEAR. You can't assume he sucks after one season.

But the thing that infuriated me the most is what you said about Ceda. First off, he was in the rotation SO HE COULD GET MORE INNINGS UNDER HIS BELT. He's a reliever, and is going to be a reliever, and a great one at that. He was put back into the bullpen because he was getting called up to Double - A.

I do, though, agree with what you said about Veal. I think if he were to be put into the bullpen, he would be a good set up guy (think Arthur Rhodes). I still think he has potential, though.

There. I just had to get that off my chest.

“My problem is your personal attacks”

…Read again man, it is you who started it. Yeah, it was you who was taking a logical conversation to the homerism and “!!!”/”??????” level… “Thats a joke”, “This is pathetic”, “SAMPLE SIZE” (with the obsessive all caps thing you love), calling me bias because I said what you said, etc… Yep, look in the mirror if you wanna find the root of your problem…

“The point I'm arguing is that Vitters doesn't have 0 trade value. It isn't what it could be if he was mashing, but literally every team would love to put him in thier system and see how he does, because he ceiling is massive. Thats the bottom line, and there isn't really any arguing that.”

…On DL = Cant be traded = zero trade value ~ sorry… Otherwise he has extremely low trade value, which is what both you and I said ~ but even you tried to argue against that too somehow… Who knows, you just seem much more intent on arguing than having a point… That is why:

“But, you can go back to Dude what the F*, F* this, F* that...”it still won't help the fact that he does have trade value, whether you like it or not. Now enough with your bs, just stop unless you actually have something to say that doesn't involve personal attacks and "F*"s...its old.”

…and I’ll tell you what is freakin old; you attempting to argue over nothing ~ and I mean flat out nothing… You will go in your runaround arguments without a point, but you expect others to go along with it as if its fine? Whatever… Get a point, stay on that point, don’t bring up other things you feel make a point but really only make you look even more foolish and lastly don’t argue when you are saying the same thing you are arguing against ~ at that point, there wont be any problems…

"Be quiet. Stop typing...its old."

...yep, thats what you;ve made it...

You say what I said, get all riled up with the “!!!!!!” and “?????” and ALL CAPS stuff, try to bring up other things I was right about, eventually explain that you didn’t really have a point to begin with, tell me to be shut up, and then say I’m the sad one? Ok man, got it…

“Wow...”

…Wow…

"Hahaha...you just can't stop. You are humiliating yourself, and you can't quit.
I'll bet you respond though..."

Me? Nah, I'm just F*in with ya because I know you will keep “humiliating yourself” by not quitting... :) Hey, you know I study psychological disorders ~ bored at this time so figured why not ~ its actually rather interesting…

(oh, and that last one wasn’t even me ~ it was a co-worker who apparently wanted to join in the fun)

…But don’t worry though, leaving work soon so wont be able to check the PC much longer and this thread will die. Its also towards the bottom of the listing now, so it should soon fall off the main page and you will be able to give your customary ‘explanation/excuse and final jabs’ post then. In the mean time I guess you’ll just have to keep checking it every 15 mins or so…

forlife & darkstar:

CC will be of zero value to Indians as of Oct. 1 2008. (and available to any team that wants to sign him.) The only question is whether the Indians will recover and contend in '08.

darkstar, of course was wrong about the whole Brian Roberts thing. Both he & MacFail were wrong and overvalued Roberts. I am of course extremely happy the Cubs gave up NOTHING for him, Orioles are now stuck with him.

CC will be a Cub, because the Indians are not stupid.

Good Day

CC is 4-8. Can be good, can be hammered it appears.

CC could very easily become a Cub by the deadline. If the Tribe is out of contention they will shop CC.

CC won't stay in the AL. Clevland won't trade him to a contending AL team. The BoSox and the Yanks are the most likely to get him and either would sign him long term. The Indians would keep getting knocked out of the playoffs. They won't just won't do it.

Sabathia will be in the NL if he is made available. And the Cubs WILL offer the most in the NL. They don't necessarily have "quality" on their side, but they will offer plenty of solid prospects.