Heyman's Latest: Holliday, Teixeira, Burnett, Blake

Heyman is a fraud. I think he justs makes his stuff up.

As for Manny's option, I think its a no-brainer...the other way. Why pay 20 million dollars for a guy who would get 18 million max on the open market? I see some team giving him 3 years 53 million. The Red Sox will take the draft picks and probably sign Pat Burrell. I think if they really wanted him, they would have avoided pissing him off for the last 6 months and just accepted it already.

3 things to say! 1 Texiria to the angels for robb quinlan and brandon wood! WHAT A RIP OFF! 2 the yankees are going to attempt to aquire matt holliday from the rockies but if that doesen't work out the yankees should make an attempt at aquirring jason bay from the pirates. 3 the yankkes are going to definiteley aquire aj burnett and hopefully attemot to sign freddy garcia to complete a wonderful six man rotation but if the yankees do not succeed at this they should just stick to a five man rotation. and the yankees will bring some big name marquee players to pinstripes so that they can bring the title back to the bronx.

i agree with ya deeco. heyman as i say every time i post, is full of it. he thinks of something, embellishes it and then writes it as fact or as a credible rumor. he literally just makes stuff up lol.

As far as manny goes, at the beginning of this season i would have disagreed tim, but as of late i agree. there is a big left field market, a lot of good hitters, and manny is pushing his luck.

However, my stance from the beginning of the season on this still stands. As long as David Ortiz remains a red sox member, so will manny. Ortiz learned alot about his swing from manny and gives him a lot of credit for his career skyrocketing instead of going down the tubes. I consider this a similar situation to andy pettite and clemens. They have a good thing going in boston, and unless manny demands a trade in boston he will remain.

However as i have said my view is move manny and make a move for holliday. Holliday is a VERY special player who has already been great in many clutch situations and sparked a rockies team that made an unbelievable run in 2007. However, I believe any move for holliday would cost at least masterson (or bucholz) along with another top prospect (perhaps lowrie) as i imagine the rockies would want some strong young pitching in return and players that will remain under team control for a bit.

Yankeeuniverse, do they not teach coherency in the Bronx?

I disagree with both of ya on Manny. He most definitely is worth $20m a year (given todays salaries) but whatever team would sign him for 3 would wind up being sorry. Manny has the type personality which lends itself very well to walk years, which is why the Sox 2 options on him are perfect.

The $20 million option is a great deal for the Red Sox because it's one year. At this stage of his career, you're better off giving him $20 for one year than $15 per for three.

also, adam, our top prospects are in double a right now in fernando martinez and jonathan neise.

a little research goes a long way.

Omar is interested in trading for a white guy? I'm speechless.

Adam

Dolan will NEVER sign a player for more than 15 Mil ever , he may have made the offers to Manny / and CC but he is thanking GOD right now they did except the offers .
Remember he is NOT the Dolan with the deep pockets it's his brother that has all the big money and he isn't even a part owner of the Indians '

Larry Dolan runs this team with only money that comes in from naming rights / gate money / TV / Radio etc.

There is no majic pot of gold for Dolan to dip into.

What you see is what you got when our players reach a level to where they reach Free Agency they will be gone to the New Yorks / The Bostons / the White Sox / The Dodgers / and if Mark Cuban get the Cubs if will also be the Cubs team with a unbeliveable money flow , we had our chance at the World Series last year Dolan and Shapiro failed to pull the trigger on that one guy to put us over the top .

Thus we will always be that team that win our division in most year not because of how good we are , but because of how bad the other teams in the division is.

We will be that team that will finish 2nd or 3rd most years . But with Boston / Yankees in the East The Wild Card is a long shot and now you are looking at The Rays a very much improved organization.

I love the Indians but I'm a Realist.

Look at it one way I hope that they are never as bad as the seventies again .

And every start praying for a Salary Cap for Baseball.

juiced - The Yankees got reasonable with contracts when Cashman got complete control a few years ago. Most of the really big ones were Steinbrenner's wishes. Besides, the fear here isn't the money, it's the uncertainty.

FranzFerdinand - The Yankee bullpen is as good as you could ask for right now. LaTroy Hawkins is the only guy you can complain about, and he'll probably be DFA'd when they need a roster spot. Starting pitching though, yeah, that's nasty. Ponson's a bigger concern than Rasner though.

"Seriously, that "rumor" about Quinlan and Wood for Teixeira is just terrible. Quinlan is nothing more than a utility player and he's not going to be in the majors much longer with his recent performance."

As an L.A. guy, I think that trade is a bit light, though I am a big Quinlan fan. His numbers aren't stellar this year, but the guy gets hardly any playing time, particularly when you consider that Kotchman hits lefties so well that there is no need for a mini-platoon. That said, Quinlan has absolutely mashed lefties over the years, plays all four corners well and doesn't mind the bench role. He is kind of a poor man's Casey Blake.

Wood has absolutely huge upside, but I agree that his swing has more holes than swiss cheese and he still needs a lot of work. I also agree that he is a weird fit for the Braves, unless they have some sort of plan to move Johnson, since I don't think Escobar is going anywhere.

Now, as part of a 3 team trade, that deal might make some sense. Quinlan/Wood/Adenhart to Colorado, Holliday and cash to Atlanta, Tex to the Angels. Now that deal actually makes some sense.

i think that that trade would fit all of the teams except for mayb the angels i dont know if they would b willing to give up that much for tex as u c in their last offer they didnt have adenhart. and he is one of their top prospects

Well he is on pace for .300 30 HR 100 RBI. But is that really worth $20 mil? Carlos Lee pretty much does the same thing but he isn't a $20 mil player. Or Berkman, Chipper, Pujols and many others. $20 mil is a lot. Of course teams like Boston and the Yankees like to waaay overpay their players.

"Or Berkman, Chipper, Pujols and many others. $20 mil is a lot."

Chipper is old and both Pujols and Berkman did team friendly deals. All things being equal, Pujols should be the highest paid player in baseball, because he is definately the best, most consistent hitter. It doesn't always come down to ability.

"Chipper is old and both Pujols and Berkman did team friendly deals. All things being equal, Pujols should be the highest paid player in baseball, because he is definately the best, most consistent hitter. It doesn't always come down to ability."

This is right on. Chipper is awesome...but could be done tomorrow...and I would never pay that guy and his injury history more than 15 mil at most.

Also completely agree on Pujols. He is making 16 mil and that is a bargain. He knew it probably would be less than market value, but signed a 10 year deal that gave him financial security for life. Hard to really argue with either side of that deal...

I was thinking about this and Albert is actually under rated believe it or not. What most don't realize is that he can actually play like 5 positions and would play as good if not better a 3rd base than A-Rod does...in my opinion. He played there for awhile, and left field as well, not to mention actually played a couple games at SS if my memory serves me right...

Anyway, they just put him at first to ensure he would be as heatlhy as possible...and he plays a GG first. However, he could probably play a pretty darn good 3rd as well.

Considering Shapiro and Minaya are friends, I can see the Mets getting Blake. He'd probably cost what Luis Castillo cost last year.

Where can the Angels sign up for that deal? Slam dunk.

I do like Quinlan a lot. He has been very valuable to the club. Unfortunately, it seems like most teams have a Quinlan type player. Angel fans like the guy because we watch him step in and deliver. But he brings nothing unique to the table.

Wood is still a top prospect. He is still VERY young and he still has some way to go. Worst case scenario is that he slugs 25-30 HR's and hits for a 250 average. That's not awful by any stretch. However, it's not elite either. I personally have soured on him over the past 2 years and wouldn't be upset if the Angels moved him for the right player.

As for Adenhart - I wouldn't even think of including him in the deal w/ Wood. Adenhart is also very young. He has tremendous upside and can be our #5 next year (depending on Escobar). He is far from just a throw in.

Quinlan is essentially a replacement level player. He plays the corner positions and his OPS+ over the past since the beginning of last season is right around 70. He has basically zero value in a trade.

Wood is an intriguing prospect, but a prospect with some huge warts. He strikes out a ton, doesn't walk a lot, and he seems to have stalled out at AAA, in the PCL no less. I think there is a good chance that he never turns into anything at the major league level. Maybe he turns into a legit 30+ HR SS, but I think there is an equally good chance he turns into 2007 version of Khalil Greene.

As a Braves fan I'd take the 2 draft picks over Wood, especially with our track record of drafting a developing high school players. If the deal was for Wood, Quinlan and young, high-ceiling type prospect I think the Braves would be willing to listen, but that "rumored" offer is a joke.

"Marlins have the same number of WS Wins over the last 12 years as the Red Sox. I don't remember them overpaying anyone."

You apparently forget the 1997 Marlins and their Yankee-esque payroll that ended up in a fire sale after winning the World Series.

"Oh and its funny how Chipper is old when talking about Manny. Since both of them are 36. Oh and Manny has played 357 games total in the past 2.5 years while Chipper has played 331 games."

Manny was 28 when he signed this contract and changed teams, as opposed to Chipper who did a team friendly deal to stay put.

"How many teams have money to pay $20 mil for a guy. LAD. Both NY Teams. And Boston."

The Angels and Cubs also have plenty of money to shell out.

How in the world can you argue that JD Drew isn't one of the top 3-4 RFs in baseball? Obviously he has injury issues and had a terrible season last year, but outside of that he's always been a great hitter. OPS+ of 157 in 2004, 145 in 2005, 127 in 2006, and 148 so far this year. Add in good defense, and I can't think of anyone much better.

The 1997 Marlins payroll was 30% lower than the Yankees. Do some research maybe.

"Marlins have the same number of WS Wins over the last 12 years as the Red Sox. I don't remember them overpaying anyone. "

lol at that comment. someone less biased might reply that the Red Sox have 2 more WS wins than the Marlins in the last 4 years.

Vlad, Ichiro, and Magglio are all having significantly worse offensive seasons than Drew this year. Ichiro has never been as good offensively as Drew and has primarily been playing CF until just recently. Magglio was great last year, but the 3 years before that he couldn't crack 115 in OPS+ and he's back down to 128 this year. Vlad definitely has a good argument, but he seems to be on the decline at this point, and I'm not sure he's ever going to be great again.

As for your secondary list of guys, for the most part they either haven't established themselves yet or are having career years this year, though I think Markakis is legit. Rios has never put up offensive numbers nearly on par with Drew's (career best 122 OPS+). Corey Hart had a career high of 126 last year and is down to 116 this year, no where near Drew's level. Kemp is a good looking prospect, but again his career high is 125 (in under 100 games) and he's down to 104 this year. Ludwick is 29 and playing out of his mind right now, but his performance just screams fluke as nothing in his history makes him look like this kind of player. Nady has always been just slightly above average, and even in a career year, his numbers still aren't as good as Drew's. Dye has had 3 great seasons, but other than that he's been a consistent 110-115 OPS+ guy throughout his career. Fukudome just isn't there as a hitter, he may get better, but his OPS+ is over 40 points lower than Drew's currently.

The obvious reason not to include LF and RF is that we were talking about the top 3-4 players at a particular position. It isn't really fair then to combine two positions and just look at the top 3-4 guys. That's twice as many guys competing for the same amount of spots. I wasn't taking LFs out to make my point, you're trying to add them in to help your own.

you didn't say they were exactly the same payrolls, no. but if you don't think 30% is a SUBSTANTIAL amount lower, then i suggest taking some math classes sometime. we're talking about a difference of $21 million when the highest team was only paying $73 million for their ENTIRE team. that's a massive difference. their payroll was amongst the likes of the cardinals and braves and blue jays that year...not the yankees who, once again, were far and away the highest spenders of the year. i didn't say they didn't spend a ton of money, but they were far from yankee-level as you imply also.

and to get back to the original poster's point anyway, the marlins, over that 12 year period of time have spent FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR less for their two titles (take all the payrolls from the last 12 years combined) than the Red Sox did over the last 12 years for the two titles they ended up with.

I don't per se agree with either side on any point they're trying to make...but the payroll numbers speak for themselves. Especially in '03.

Nixa,

Wow you are all over the place.

First you say, “Vlad, Ichiro, and Magglio are all having significantly worse offensive seasons than Drew this year.”

This makes me think you are just judging on this season, considering Vlad, Ichiro, and Mags are all considered better than JD Drew.

Then you say, “Ichiro has never been as good offensively as Drew”

This is not only incorrect, but is now stating past seasons as the format. BTW, Ichiro has had a better Batting Average the past 3 years, more Runs the past 3 years, more Stolen Bases the past 3 years, And has even had more RBI in 1 of the 3 years batting from the LEADOFF SPOT instead of behind Ortiz and Manny.

Then you say, “Magglio was great last year, but the 3 years before that he couldn't crack 115 in OPS+ and he's back down to 128 this year.”

Again making me think you are going by past performance. BTW, there are more stats than OPS, Magglio has basically squashed JD Drew in the last 3 years in Runs, HR, RBI, and AVG.

Again you say, “Vlad definitely has a good argument, but he seems to be on the decline at this point, and I'm not sure he's ever going to be great again.”

This makes me think you are picking for the future, making guys like Kemp even higher on these lists. Oh and BTW, Vlad has crushed Drew in Runs, RBI, HR, and AVG the past 3 years.

Then you say something that I have no idea how to interpret, “As for your secondary list of guys, for the most part they either haven't established themselves yet or are having career years this year.”

So when more proven players than Drew is having a “worse” years, you say, “are all having significantly worse offensive seasons than Drew,” but when other players are having better years than Drew they “haven't established themselves yet or are having career years this year.”

Just doesn’t make any sense to me. Like I said, I’m not saying Drew isn’t in the top 4, but to say there is no way anyone can argue the point seems pretty ignorant to me.

"Just doesn’t make any sense to me. Like I said, I’m not saying Drew isn’t in the top 4, but to say there is no way anyone can argue the point seems pretty ignorant to me"

Is Drew really even in the top 4? How about Markakis, who is younger, faster, just as patient, just as powerful and better defensively? How about Abreu, who has had an off year this year, but who has been better than Drew their entire careers? How about Josh Hamilton, who is a true RF much like Ichiro?

"And LF and RF are practically the same, that's why on the All-Star Ballot, you vote for OF, not LF, CF, and RF."

Well, not really. You can get away with a weaker arm in left and not every corner OFer can play CF.

the Angels need to get rid for garry and get a big bat in. I don't see it happening until this winter

the lowercase zach is better,

Are you really going to try and claim I'm all over the place because I didn't just look at one year to make my point? Seriously, I could have just pointed out that Drew has arguably the best numbers of any RF this year and left it at that. Instead I took the time to break down both performance over the past few years and this year. That seems like a far more precise way to judge the players to me.

To get to the point, what I was trying to show when I was talking about Drew with respect to Vlad, Ichiro, and Magglio is that Drew has performed at a level similar to the last two over the past few years and he is easily outplaying them this year. That leads me to believe he is currently a better player than either of those two. My point with Vlad is that while he has a better track record, he is struggling by his own standards this year and I don't think its wrong to ask the question if this is what we should expect from him from here on out because he has always relied on bat speed and that's generally one of the first skills to erode.

The reason I chose to focus on OPS+ is its a great quick and dirty measurement of skills at the plate and its field neutral. It also isn't reliant on the number of games that you've played. If you want something like adjusted batting runs instead, then go check out baseball-reference and you'll see that Drew had the better numbers in that category than either Ichiro or Magglio every season since 2004 excluding last year.

As for the crap you wrote about the secondary list you gave and my response to it, at no point have you shown that Magglio or Ichiro is a more proven player than Drew. In fact, Drew has the best career OPS+ of the 3. He's outplayed them over the past 5 years and he's outplaying them again, so I don't understand why its so hard to accept that maybe he's better than they are. The guys you listed, outside of Markakis, aren't even in the same league yet offensively. None of them has posted a single OPS+ as good as Drew career OPS+ and none are playing as good as he is currently. You haven't made a single argument yet as to why any of those guys should be considered in the same league as Drew. Oh and since you brought up Kemp, just to prove how big of a joke that comparison currently is, Kemp's OPS+ for this season, his first full season in the majors is 106. Compare that to the "abysmal" year that Drew had last season, his worst since 1999, when he posted "only" a 105 OPS+. Maybe he'll be there in a few years, but currently Kemp isn't in the same ballpark.