Marlins, Red Sox, Pirates Talking Manny Trade

I was thinking to myself of the sleeper teams in a possible Manny deal and Marlins are the top of the list.

If the sox pay the rest of his salary for the season, then the marlins get a virtually free Hall of Famer to bring them through the playoffs this season, and then they could let him walk in the offseason.

Sure, theyd lose a guy like Hermida or Willingham, but Florida has other young outfielders ready to go, and Hermida is just another player the Marlins wouldnt sign and move 3 to 4 years from now anyways.

I think getting Hermida would be a good addition. even though he has a .254 ba but has hit 15 homers. i would still keep manny but he would still be a good addition.

I still doubt the Sox would just make a two-team deal...we're in a playoff race. Those are big shoes to fill for a young kid like Hermida in the craziest market on our way to a World Series. If this is to happen, we need a third team who can dump a guy who will produce now and can take the prospect, like Cincy with Dunn.

Love Hermida's potential, but I'd rather just keep Manny around for the rest of the year.

Trading Manny for Hermida would seriously hurt the chances of a WS this season. But in the long run, I'd love the Hermida addition. Very good potential and he's under team control for a few more years. All in all, I don't think it happens because the Sox want to win now.

I'm sure Manny would love to go there, because there is no chance they pick up his option there.

Though we've all been through this before, I think there is a 99% chance Manny does not get moved.

I still think Bay to the Red Sox and Manny to a 3rd team makes a lot of sense. Bay would replace Manny's offense (they are very similar at this stage in their careers, Manny on his decline and Bay in his prime). The Red Sox would pick up most of Manny's salary and the team acquiring Manny would have to give up the best prospects to the Pirates, with the Red Sox kicking in at least a solid prospect or 2. The deal could also be expanded to include some relievers (with Grabow going to one of the teams involved. Here are a few options.

#1
Bay (and maybe Juan Cruz or Rauch) to Red Sox
Manny (and Grabow?) to D-Backs
Prospects from both clubs to Pirates

#2
Bay to Red Sox
Manny to Dodgers
Ethier/Kemp and prospects to Pirates

#3
Bay to Red Sox
Manny to Mets
Prospects to Pirates

#4
Bay to Red Sox
Manny to Marlins
Hermida and prospects to Pirates (people seem to forget Hermida is only 8 months older than Kemp!)

I could see the Pirates wanting to do the deal for Kemp without too much in the way of prospects coming their way (if any). The Dodgers might even have to receive a prospect (or Grabow) in that scenario. Don't know how interested the Pirates would be in Ethier, they really need to shoot for someone with more upside (Ethier is 26, Hermida is 24, and Kemp is almost 24).

Hermida might be intriguing, but he's struggled more in the majors than Kemp, so better prospects would have to be involved with him going to the Pirates than Kemp.

On a side note PoppaRomeo,

Will you stop with the stupid PTI spoof link in all of your posts? Its really unnecessary and annoying. Try something else to get hits on your website.

Is it possible to ban PoppaRomeo? I think everyone is tired of his spamming.

I know I've said this several times, but these 3 way deals don't make sense. If a team is shipping out prospects for a LF, why wouldn't they just take Bay themselves instead of Manny (unless Boston is going to pay a premium by throwing in a worthwhile prospect as well)?

Like instead of:
Bay to Red Sox
Manny to Dodgers
Ethier/Kemp and prospects to Pirates

Wouldn't this:
Bay to Dodgers
Ethier/Kemp and prospects to Pirates

make more sense?

If Boston is going to dump Manny and get another top LF, its likely going to be straight up or in two separate deals. Teams aren't dumb enough to simply choose Manny over Bay (or Holliday or whoever else gets mentioned).

Lol I didnt even see your post UConn

"If the sox pay the rest of his salary for the season, then the marlins get a virtually free Hall of Famer to bring them through the playoffs this season, and then they could let him walk in the offseason."

Thats why it makes sense. Marlins would have him in August and September and through the playoffs for free, and then let him walk after the season.

Thats where it makes sense. If I'm not mistaking, teams still make rental trades to help them win a championship.

Everyone seems to think that teams only make trades now if the player in return is under team control for years to come

A lot of people think the Sox will turn around and trade a Kemp/Hermida for a Bay/Dunn(forget Dunn...) but I'm not so sure Theo wouldn't just keep either of those OFs.

But it's a long shot that Manny gets traded anyway.

Not Joe Morgan - it makes sense for the D-Backs (Manny instead of Bay) because they have 3 starting OF signed for 2009 already (Byrnes, Young, Upton) and don't need Bay in 2009. A rental is a better fit for them.

While Andrew and Pierre are pretty bad starters, the Dodger's OF is pretty crowded heading into 2009 (Pierre, Jones, Ethier/Kemp, Young), plus they could always look at some of the free agent options (Manny, Dunn, Burrell, etc.). So they may also prefer a rental if they want to play around in the free agent market (Colletti must be stopped!).

And if the Marlins can get Manny largely for free this year, they might not want to take on Bay's 2009 salary (as reasonable as it is). Plus, Bay isn't really a RF, and either he or Willingham would be out of place to get their bat into the lineup. People forget that Manny played exclusively RF when he was signed with Cleveland (I'm not saying he'd be capable out there now, he's not even capable in LF, but he has experience reading the ball in RF).

Plus, Manny would cost less in prospects than Bay, as the Red Sox would have to be chipping in at least 1 prospect to the Pirates.

So I think there are plenty of reasons a team might prefer a Manny rental (if cheap) to a Bay acquisition. Thanks for asking though.

Manny is not going anywhere this year. Theo Epstein isn't an idiot. Manny is the best hitter in baseball. This is all hype. It has happened almost every year Manny has been in Boston. The guy's overall numbers this year are down, but in the clutch he's one of the scariest batters a pitcher can face in late inning pressure situations.

"Not Joe Morgan - it makes sense for the D-Backs (Manny instead of Bay) because they have 3 starting OF signed for 2009 already (Byrnes, Young, Upton) and don't need Bay in 2009. A rental is a better fit for them."

Disagree here, but on the assumption that a team with a budget like Arizona's couldn't even consider offering Manny arbitration just on the outside chance he finds a down market flooded with LFs (Burrell, Dunn) and accepts. Would you rather give 2 prospects for Manny then have him walk or 3 for Bay, then recoup talent back if you need to trade him after this season? Its not like there won't be a market for Bay heading into 2009. So I'd say Bay is better for them both in the long term and the short term.

"Plus, Manny would cost less in prospects than Bay, as the Red Sox would have to be chipping in at least 1 prospect to the Pirates."

Agreed, and I believe I wrote that too. The problem is that a lot proposals I see floated ignore that Boston will have to chip in one of their better prospects to upgrade from Manny to Bay. Not Buchholz, but Moss either; someone from the Kalish/Anderson/Masterson/Bowden group would be going. That seems to be overlooked. So we agree there.

"So I think there are plenty of reasons a team might prefer a Manny rental (if cheap) to a Bay acquisition. Thanks for asking though."

Thanks for responding. Dialogue rules!

There is no way Manny accepts arbitration. He wants to get a longer deal while his value is still relatively high. I guess there is a small chance he gets slightly more on a one year deal through arbitration but it would cost him money in the long run. Not to mention, based on everything we have heard I think accepting another one year deal by choice is about the last thing he would do.

Anyone else at least a little surprised that Manny seems to have gotten less interest than Teixeira especially when the Sox have offered to pay his money?

Agreed that he doesn't want to and there's probably a far less than 50% chance of him accepting a one year deal, but its certainly not impossible. With two somewhat similar options (Burrell and Dunn), his known and documented baggage and the Boras factor, its not out of the realm of possibilities that he'll price himself out of the market and have to "settle" for a one year arbitration deal. I just can't see any team going 4 years and $64MM on an aging, petulant defensive liability when other options are around.

(Full disclosure: I'm sure old posts will show that even as a Yankees fan, I used to be one of Ramirez's biggest defenders. The incident with the secretary, the supposed tanked at bat and then the garbage he pulled last night just makes it impossible for me to see his side anymore. Great hitter, but on the downside and risks are passing the rewards.)

This rumor makes no sense for Florida. They lose their RF of the future AND a decent prospect for a 2 month rental they have NO chance of re-signing? That MIGHT be something a desperate NORMAL club would do, but c'mon! These are the Marlins. While other teams have $100+ million payrolls, I think I read that theirs is, like, $226.43. They're going to deal a promising, cheap, young outfielder for 2 months of the craziest sonofa... in baseball?! Just don't see it. Furthermore, it hurts the Red Sox's chances of winning the WS this year! So...its a bad deal for BOTH teams. Yeah, those deals don't go down too often.

Also, I'm beginning to hate Poppa Romeo as much as I hate TypeKey.

Thought y'all might enjoy this hilarious spoof of me BEATING THE LIVING #%&! OUT OF PAPPA 'THE DIGITAL PIMP' ROMEO!

unfortunately - Manny is the best financial decision for this ballclub heading into 09 - he might be here for a couple more years, and once we sign the extension im sure he will chalk it up to Manny being Manny and all that BS. When the end comes, hes one of the most consistent hitters who can hit .300 + 35 hr + `120 RBI+ and you know you will get that from him year in and out.

Who else is out there?

Dunn - pull hitter with low avg but high homers in a big right field? makes me uncomfortable. Also comes from the National League which happens to be a joke.

Holliday - great stats, hits at coors field, no way you can risk paying off long term deal worth a lot to a guy who hasnt hit away from coors field and is unproven away from Colorado.

Red sox owners are business men - and they will sign Manny's option; and maybe for 2010 as well.

so what we have right now is nothing with the mets...nothing w/ the dbacks...and nothing with philly...

You have long shots w/ la and fl

you have miricles of pitts and col.

so what we have pretty much is manny til the end of the year.

hopefully boston management is workin as hard on bullpen help as the media and most of us are on pipedreams of manny trades.

Jeff Allison is the heroin addict right? Interesting...

That's the exact reason why they won't they won't sign off on Manny's option year... Why would they put themselves in a situation where they get themselves another year of inevitable turmoil from a guy who might or might not have a great season... He has the potential to be all world but he has been hit or miss the last 5 seasons and frankly Boston isn't about that... They want results, not potential... Manny is gone... On the other hand, once Manny signs a contract with a new ballclub it will wine and roses for the first season so expect monster numbers next year....

Manny Ramirez = becoming the new Barry Bonds

For the record, I think the Red Sox should keep Manny. But if they want to move him and see Bay as an acceptable replacement, then I think my proposals work better than the Red Sox just getting Hermida or Ethier. Bay = Manny at this point in their careers. But Manny >> Hermida/Ethier/Kemp at this point, and I can't see the Red Sox taking the downgrade in the middle of a pennant race.

I think there is <15% chance Manny accepts arbitration. He will have no problem getting at least 3 years, $15 million per (and it will probably be more like 3 years, $17 million per, maybe 4 years)). If you disagree, you'll have to explain to me why every team in baseball suddenly have really smart front offices. Sure, Bill Bavasi and Dave Littlefield are gone, but there are plenty of other dopy GM's out there!

Accepting arbitration to get $20 million in 2009 sounds nice, but if his 2009 is a down year, then he screws himself. I just don't think Boras would encourage one of his marqi clients to do that late in his career. Even Andruw Jones went multi-year, when he had many teams interested in 1-year.

It would be risky for the D-Backs to go into next season with 4 starting OF. No one would want Byrnes and his contract after this year. They wouldn't trade Upton. I'd be surprised if they sold low on Young. And every team would know their hand was being forced with Bay. That would make it riskier that they could not get full return. Plus, they probably don't have the prospects to get Bay unless they change their stance on either Scherzer or Parker.

I'm not sure Kemp or Hermida aren't worth it this year anyway. The Sox showed the offense wouldn't miss a beat with a huge bat missing and the difference between Manny and Kemp (offense & defense) is probably much smaller than the difference between Ortiz's bat / Manny's glove and Ellsbury/Crisp.

As a long time Redsox fan, I can attest that RedSox Nation is sick of Manny production or not, this time of year he has some mysterious injuries or fits of rage and the Redsox have caved every time, We want his gone! Still we need Pitching in return much more than an OF. I think Theo will take the best offer on the table right now and it could be just 1 offer with the SOX paying the balance of his salary and waiving the Team options into the future. I don't think there is enough time to pull off a multi-team trade. lots of paper work, connector flights, and potentially physicals. I'd take the rumors deal from FLA in a minute.

Manny is consistent - and has not been hit or miss - He has been quite ridiculous at the plate. Maybe not 45 HR ridiculous but has the high BA and the power... the only thing that concerns me about mannys production is the increasingly high number of strikeouts matching earlier in his career

"Jeff Allison is the heroin addict right? Interesting..."

yes that guy, 23 in A ball.
who would play right for the marlins?
matt kemp is going to get better, and better. i think if he is traded ned will be shot in front of the stadium.
the angel/brave trade made the casey blake trade look so bad yesterday. i really liked it too.

Don't you think the most logical and
Trade and it may be possible is to trade for hanley? You could pay mannys contract and send lowrie and a minor league prospect. You would fill the needed shortstop position and get the bat that u lost in manny.

You think that's a good idea??

There is a less than 1 percent chance manny accepts arbitration. In fact it is basically stated in the deals that Manny will not accept arbitration as long as the team agrees to decline his options otherwise he might not waive his no trade. He has been saying all year he does not like playing on a one year deal why would he choose another one? It also would require swallowing a lot of pride. It is extremely unlikely. Just look at what other attitude cases have signed for and think about how much money some teams have right now.

Stop the madness!!!! Think for a minute about this. WHY would the Red Sox trade Manny to ANY contending team??

If he goes to an AL team, he could hurt the Red Sox chances of making the Play-Offs or he could help that team knock the Red Sox OUT of the Play-Offs.

If Manny goes to an NL contender, he makes that team better and gives that team a better chance at making the Play-Offs. Once in the Play-Offs, he ives that team a better chance at winning and going to the World Series, where they might have to face.....THE RED SOX.

So why would Mr. Epstein do THAT???

Just trade Manny to the Reds for Dunn and get it over with. The Reds have been out of contention since May and will get the same two Amateur Draft picks from Manny as they would Dunn.

The only difference is, for the last two months of the season, the Reds would have a more balanced line-up and the fans would get to see what a REAL middle of the order Run producer looks like.

"Don't you think the most logical and
Trade and it may be possible is to trade for hanley? You could pay mannys contract and send lowrie and a minor league prospect. You would fill the needed shortstop position and get the bat that u lost in manny.

You think that's a good idea??"

There is no way the Marlins trade Hanley. He just signed a six year 70 mil extension and is the best shortstop in the game. That is definitely not worth two months of Manny. The other prospects would have to be something preety special to pry Hanley from the stingy Marlins.
It is ironic that you want Hanley Back since you were the ones who traded him in the first place.

"This rumor makes no sense for Florida. They lose their RF of the future AND a decent prospect for a 2 month rental they have NO chance of re-signing? That MIGHT be something a desperate NORMAL club would do, but c'mon"

I agree, and even with Manny, the chances of the Marlins making the playoffs are miniscule. They would need a complete miracle to win the NL East.

I wouldnt call Hanley the best SS in the game. He is the best offensive player currently at SS, but everybody knows that he is a CF pretending to play SS. I also wouldnt really call it ironic that a Boston fan wants him back, more just ignorant that he thinks they could get him back for Manny.

Maybe a Manny, Lowrie, Buchholz, Bowden for Hermida and Hanley. Doubt that even gets it done.

The trade that is really the most logical is for the redsox to pay for manny and trade him to the dodgers for kemp. He is only 23 and in a couple years he will be amazing. Plus the dodgers put him on the block anyway

"I agree, and even with Manny, the chances of the Marlins making the playoffs are miniscule. They would need a complete miracle to win the NL East."

Explain to me how a team that is 2 games out on July 30 would need a "miracle" to take that division. Please do Id really, really like to hear it because thats maybe the most ridiculous thing Ive heard all day.

Yeah seriously. As a Mets fan, people continue to unfairly knock the Marlins for this system of stockpiling veterans, just winning the damn thing, and then trading away huge contracts to get younger. They have 2 world series championships under their belt in the last 11 years (I wish the Mets had one), and they have stockpiles of young talent, including a very solid young pitching staff. The Marlins are certainly for real - their lineup is good enough to win the division. The only questions I have about them are at catcher and their defense is horrible.

And quite frankly, Manny will never get traded before the deadline. Theo Epstein doesn't have the balls to trade away Manny with Boston in the pennant race. I say hold onto him this year, as it'll all be worth it when he's beating the hell out of Anaheim, Chicago, Minnesota, New York, Tampa Bay, or Detroit's pitching staff come October. It's the same old story every year...

Only way id want this to happen is if it's Manny for Maybin straight up with the sox paying the contract. That dudes for real and id gladly take him for the next 20 years. Marlins wouldnt be stupid enough to do it though...

OT: what is all this bogus survey crud that takes over the whole screen? anyone else getting this???

6:00pm ET - Buster Olney

"...the Red Sox are engaged in serious conversations to trade Manny Ramirez to the Florida Marlins, as well as other teams. If the Red Sox make a deal with the Marlins, it is likely they would kick in money to offset Ramirez's salary, and they would look for three young players in return -- perhaps outfielder Jeremy Hermida or outfielder Josh Willingham, plus pitchers.

The Red Sox have gone down this road many times before with Ramirez, seriously discussing a deal before pulling back -- but what might be different this time is that Ramirez apparently has just two months of regular season with the Red Sox, and Boston could be asking the internal question of how invested Ramirez will be in the last days of the year."

and he also just said on television during an ESPN update (SUMMARIZED:) "the vibes going around tonight has changed since yesterday... and that the red sox are DEAD serious on getting manny ramirez out of town right now..." and increased the chances from 10% to 40%

Athletic Domination,

Mets fans have watched the Marlins play awful defense and endure shaky pitching all year. They have hung on so far because they hit a ton of home runs + some clutch hits. But they also lead the NL in strikeouts and it's tough to see them being a real factor when the games start to count.

Man I would cream in my pants if we can get Manny Ramirez for something like Williangham, Tankersley, Allison.

Agreed.

From Baseball Prospectus' John Perrotto, at 6:05 PM ET:

"by John Perrotto

Multipe baseball sources say the Red Sox are on the verge of sending disgrunted left fielder Manny Ramirez to the Marlins in a trade for a package of three players that included low Class A Greensboro outfielder Mike Stanton, an 18-year-old who is hitting .275/.351/.569 with 26 home runs in 96 games."

The Red Sox must have a second move on tap - perhaps getting Jason Bay from Pittsburgh for prospects (maybe even including Stanton?).

Man giving up Mike Stanton is tough, I feel he along with Maybin and Morrison should be considered untouchable. I am on the fence about it. Think it just depends who are the other 2 guys

ReardenTech, are you insinuating that some games count and others dont? The games "start to count" on April 1, brother. Leading the league in HR's and K's negates itself.

Seriously this is ridiculous, the Marlins are a genuine contender and will probably take the east if they get a PO'd Manny who will be trying out his best Gary Sheffield impersonation.

I already picked Willingham back up in my fantasy league.

I have a strange feeling about this. Never have reports in the past trade deadlines said that "The Red Sox are DEAD serious on shipping Manny out of town before the deadline".

Hold on... seriously??? The trade rumors have swirled around him since 2002... I've just gotten used to they're all not going to happen?

So I know nothing about Stanton besides he shares a name with a journeyman reliver. Young power hitter it looks like... is he actually a good projectable power hitter?

Yankees acquire Pudge for next to nothing, and the Sox get rid of Manny in the same day?

Did I somehow die and go to heaven?

Theyve swirled around him but the biggest was the Arod - Manny swap before the yankees got him. But that wasnt at the trade deadline

im watching the game to see if ramirez has been pulled, as of now hes still a red sox, if he comes out ill let you know

I'm fine with that return. If the Sox planned on declining is option anyway, trading him is the best way to secure talent. Draft picks are nice but even less proven.

I'd like to think 3 young players means another trade is being discussed. Maybe one in the offseason...

Manny is coming up to bat.

Fielder's choice.

if this happens im gonna miss him alot, but it really is the best decision they can make, they cant take the chance of him pretending hes hurt when they have to compete against two very good teams for the pennant, and we get some serious talent in stanton and more in return. its not going to be easy to do it without him becuase he is rare numbers wise, but knowing the option wasnt going to get picked up, this is the best decision possible

nevermind the marlins basically should be able to crush alot of teams with him

Well as D Wright has already proven, the trade has not gone down... could be simply a crossing the t's and dotting the i's. But honestly, I have to wonder if part could be Manny may not approve a trade to Florida... it pretty much automatically means he'll be a FA after the season. It's hard to leave 2 option years on the table if they're worth 40M total and Boras is your agent.

04Forever, it isn't going to happen, not matter how many closed door discussions they have.

you seem so certain.

Manny is still in the game against the Angels, so I am not putting much stock into this yet.

If Manny leaves the game early tonight, I'll be the first to say so right when I find out. If he does come out of the game, it's pretty certain he's gone.

This is getting crazy, all these rumors but Manny is still playing! I dont know what to believe. This is what the deadline is all about, best time of year for sure.

I'll keep my eye on the Pirates game for Jason Bay.

Watch Baseball Tonight. Gammons is about to school Steve Phillips.

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_baseball_marlins/

"I know, I know, two respected entities in Baseball Prospectus and SI.com are reporting the Marlins' involvement in the Manny trade talks, but there's simply no way to take this seriously."

Steve Phillips have a good point regarding Manny Ramirez. He said "AL teams(and NL teams for that matter) want the Red Sox to trade Manny because they know, not matter the return, that the Red Sox are a lesser team without Manny." That's pretty true, I could almost see another AL team coming in and throwing in prospects just to have Manny sent to the NL.

Btw, has anyone ever noticed that Steve Phillips' hair is always perfect?

Why would the Pirates essentially trade Bay for Hermida?

does have*

How could you read that article and take anything it says as remotely serious. It is basically poor speculation based on ill informed opinions.

"Why would the Pirates essentially trade Bay for Hermida?"

Do you not read Tim's updates at the top?

"6:24pm: MLB.com's Joe Frisaro is hearing about a three-way deal that would also send Jason Bay to the Red Sox."

steve phillips is a moron, what hes not accounting for is manny will not play anymore for the red sox. if the red sox can trade manny away and get bay in return we lose nothing hitting wise and get back a younger more motivated player in return. bays stats are similar to manny now and he will undoubtedly play harder for us. do it now

Any sentence beginning with steve phillips made a good point isnt worth reading. It is no Bay for Hermida straight up, the sox are rumored to get two other prospects and could always add their own.

ManRam and HanRam in the same lineup, now that is the stuff movies are made of.

"Watch Baseball Tonight. Gammons is about to school Steve Phillips."

good call. he officialy owned stupid steve phillips

Yeah, there's a good reason he's not a GM any more.

If the three way deal does happen, then the Marlins should have probably just traded Hermida for Bay rather than Manny. I'd rather have Bay. Small drop in offense, big increase in defense. Also, Bay is signed rather cheaply (7.5m next season), and the Marlins could easily fit him into next years payroll and keep it at mid-40m max. And then after next season, you still get the Type A draft picks.

Something that was brought to my attention was the fact that Manny's got the name and fanbase in Miami, so that might have to do with it. But still, I'd rather have Bay.

i mean steve phillips is in fantasy land if he thinks keeping manny and saying "sorry bro we wont renew your contract but just play out the season" will be the best option. the reality is he'll pull somemore bs and sit out.if the sox get bay not only do we get stronger at the plate and in the field but it keeps bay off the rays roster too.

Hermida just hit a leadoff triple for the marlins in the 4th...

Hearing Tucker/Stanton/Hermida

Obviously just rumors but that is an excellent return given the situation.

I agree with Nny. Getting Bay seems like a better option but who knows with mlb gm's these days.

1/3 of their current payroll is not "rather cheap."

If they do get Bay, id hope the Sox get to keep Stanton. He sounds like a fascinating power prospect.

Ok people the Marlins are not paying the contract so stop talking about it. Sox already said theyd pay the rest of his contract if they got good prospects back.

I think getting bay would definitely be better for the Marlins.

Michael Hill, one of the marlins GMs, was suppose to be on the broadcast right now and cancelled because he's in "important meetings"

Tucker Stanton and Hermida would be an absurd for 2 month rental. Definitely not worth it. You're talking the marlins best pitching prospect in the marlins who is also a potential closer, a top 3 OF prospect and their starting RF with a lot of potential

If he hasn't been traded why is the title of this blog Manny Ramirez Traded to Marlins?

"Yeah, there's a good reason he's not a GM any more."

he should never have been one in the 1st place although he was responsible for Mr. David Wright so I always give him some credit.

Manny is in fact making his next at-bat.

Manny won't help them...they STILL won't be able to pitch, their defense will be even worse, the mental errors will still be there, they already hit really well, why would they focus on another batter...it's stupid...they should focus on PITCHING, ya know, what really wins championships

"he should never have been one in the 1st place although he was responsible for Mr. David Wright so I always give him some credit."

if i throw a 100 darts at a dartboard blindfolded one will eventually hit it.

"1/3 of their current payroll is not "rather cheap.""

And next year the payroll is likely going to be in the mid-40's.

That can easily be attained with Bay's contract. Trading the likes of Olsen, Jacobs, ect that are easily replaceable and saving several mil.

If you follow the Marlins, rather than the talking heads, you'd realize that yes this is a small-budget team, but it's a small-budget team that focues on winning. The payroll is like it is this year because there's no point in adding pointless payroll when the team has the talent it has and there was no way we could afford Cabrera long term, and this past offseason was when we'd get max value for him.

This offseason, payroll will go up because now it's not adding pointless money, but rather these players hitting arbitration. Based off the past, it seems like the mid-40m range is where Loria is willing to go, so that's likely where the payroll will be next season.

metzfan22: the pitchig rotations total ERA was so bad because of the likes of Hendrickson, Ryan Tucker, and Andrew Miller's April (in other words, the #4-#5 pitchers).

Now Josh Johnson is back, Andrew Miller has pitched a lot better, and Anibal Sanchez will pitch tommmorow. We do not need another starter.

Meanwhile, our offense since June 1st has been below league average.

Again, don't go by what talking heads tell you.

Man - that Lowell signing is proving to be rather large now.

If he wasn't on the team - what are the chances that a Manny trade would even be sniffed?

I still don't get why they wouldn't take Bay he plays better defense a little worse offense and you don't have to put up with the baggage that he brings. If your are worried about payroll you could just trade him in the off season to get some of that value back.

Peter Gammons practically jumped out of his seat at Phillips...i have never seen him so irate...

I don't see the loss of manny as a bad thing if the red sox get bay. I have to think all the marlins prospects etc go to pit. Wonder if the sox have to kick in more then just manny.

What happened with gammo and Steve?

If Theo did not want to pick up Manny's option (which he obviously didn't), this move is frickin' genius. If it's Hermida, Tucker, plus? Wow!

You really think the Marlins will spend 13 mil on just two players next year? Especially when one is an outfielder. Plus they would have to pay Bay this year.

Has anyone considered that the Sox are eating Manny's 08 salary, while the Pirates obviously won't do the same for Bay, and that the price on Bay may be higher? I mean isn't it possible that the Sox are packaging in some of their own prospects with those they receive from the Marlins to snag Bay?

"Tucker Stanton and Hermida would be an absurd for 2 month rental."

Manny isn't a rental if the Fish don't want him to be.

"You really think the Marlins will spend 13 mil on just two players next year? Especially when one is an outfielder. Plus they would have to pay Bay this year."

Yes, why wouldn't they? They can easily field a team paying two players 13m next season and still have a mid-40m payroll.

Also, Loria has already said he's willing to add payroll this season.

"Manny isn't a rental if the Fish don't want him to be."

Manny would want the team to decline the options as compensation for waiving his no trade clause.

The Fish could get the Red Sox to cover maybe half of the option. But, I'm sure that would cause Manny to stay put in Boston.

By the way, did anyone see the quote from Manny? "They try to paint it like I'm the bad guy....I love the Boston fans, but the Red Sox do not deserve me." Hate him or love him, the guy is awesome.

Hermida is batting now

I hope this deal goes thru, I'm crossing my fingers, my toes, and if it does ill be singin sweet caroline and doin back flips.

Bay just singled in two for the Pirates

I hope this deal goes thru, I'm crossing my fingers, my toes, and if it does ill be singin sweet caroline and celebrate good times...sorry good news always makes me giddy

I love how julio lugo tried to bail manny out by saying it was all a misunderstanding and unfortunate, then manny flys off the handle with all that stuff he keeps saying, hes shooting his teammates in the feet, thats a new one

0 respect for anybody who doesnt try. Manny is lazy and i hope for Boston fans he is on his way out

i agree with cubs land at this point, this time he has gone way to far

It's an absurd haul regardless of what the fish do with Manny.

Thats why Tucker/Hermida/Stanton is incredibly unlikely...

Unless another piece is coming back from Boston.

I hope this deal goes thru, I'm crossing my fingers, my toes, and if it does ill be singin sweet caroline and celebrate good times...sorry good news always makes me giddy

I dont think the Red Sox will land Bay, unless Pittsburgh gets something else in the deal.

On the low end, Florida might be getting George Kottaras back in the deal. On the high end - especially if Hermida's in the deal - I'll go *way* out on a limb here and speculate that Clay Buchholz or Justin Masterson goes to Florida in the deal.

http://trades.mlblogs.com/

final stages?

You've got to by joking me Tom!??!?!?!? You think that the sox are going to include a hall of famer and a prospect that's better than all three of the ones coming back? I dont think so, but i know Kottaras is on the Bucs radar and that is a possibility to include for Bay.

Well, a Marlins official just denied strongly that Stanton's in the deal, so that takes down the value considerably. If he were in there, the Marlins would have to be getting back a *lot* more than two months of Manny - perhaps one of the two pitchers - to make this deal fly.

Well, Manny is still in the game and Josh Beckett apparently forgot that you don't throw fastballs to Garret Anderson, especially in the low 90s.

The Red Sox look dead to me, i think they need to trade Manny.

from Devan's blog:

"8:52 p.m.: I am aware of the three-team scenario that has been floated in some circles -- some more definitively than others -- that would get Bay involved in a three-way trade between Boston and Florida that would send Bay to the Red Sox, Manny Ramirez to the Marlins and Jeremy Hermida to the Pirates. But I just spoke with a source in Miami who threw water over the whole thing, even the more commonly reported Ramirez-Florida straight-up suggestions. Waiting for independent confirmation either way."

Dejan - pardon me

Trade Manny! For anyone! He's in the heads of the Red Sox... even Youk made an error!

Im 100% convinced that they NEED to trade Manny.

This is ridiculous, Sox look absolutely terrible!

This whole situation is affecting all the players. 2 hits last night. Beckett sucked tonight. This is terrible.

Bay just hit again

Maybe the Angels are just that good.

Sox also are talking to the pirates about John Grabow being included in the three way deal-Olney

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=mlb_trade_deadline

If the Pirates aren't getting Mike Stanton back, they need to end talks in this now.

Hermida isn't even as good as Bay, Pirates would get hosed with a three player trade.

Angels are good, but lowell(last night) and youk having errors has nothing to do with that.

Mike Jacobs was just taken out in a 5-4 game. Were than any teams intrested in him?
Giants mabey?

"Maybe the Angels are just that good."

Don't tell Athletic Domination that. Our resident "Sabermetric expert" thinks the Angels are a lucky .500 team.

"but lowell(last night) and youk having errors has nothing to do with that."

Neither do they have to do with Manny.

Mike Jacobs perhaps instead of Stanton...?

Mike Stanton the former Yankee reliever? jk

I hope the Redsox dont trade Manny. If they trade him for 3 young guys from the Marlins that means that there future is goin to be really bright. Maybe they dont win the world Series thiss year but if they make this deal I could see them win it in a couple of years.

Mike Jacobs is Craig Wilson and I would be very mad if we trade Bay and Grabow for him and Hermida.

"The current sticking point, according to a well-placed source, is that the Marlins want the Red Sox to add a prospect to their take in the deal."

They certainly better be. Otherwise they should be cutting Boston out and moving Bay for Hermida and a prospect.

Willinhamm and Hermida are still in. So Jacobs probably isn't part of the Red Sox trade.

(Obviously the wording is flipped there, should be "moving Hermida and a prospect for Bay". Another high five, TypePad.)

Im not saying that they do but i am saying that if you were watching the game you'd realize that something isnt right with this team... and it's not the angels being good

although they are

"Mike Stanton the former Yankee reliever? jk"

hahahaha thats what i thought at first i was like this trade makes no sense at all. i clicked that link to see who mike stanton was soo fast hahaha

There is a report on SI that the dodgers are willing to give up Kemp... id take that one over this, especially if Stanton isnt involved.

"There is a report on SI that the dodgers are willing to give up Kemp... id take that one over this, especially if Stanton isnt involved."

If that actually happened, it would probably either include another Boston player or get Colletti fired.

If it is the less complicted configuration where we give up manny and a triple A player for bay and grabow in return i would definently jump on it. I would like at all possible to hold onto Lowrie instead of Jack wilson who is hitting something like 217 in july

Now Jack Wilson is involved, we are up to what 30 player trade?

Seriously, I would be shocked if anything happens. When more and more names get tossed teams are farther apart then thought to be.

8ball, it really just looks like sloppy play; plus, Lowry did a poor job getting in front of the throw-down. Some of that "Willie-Mays-Hays ole bs."

Manny's comments have cemented his d